united states', quote, protecting power in iran and the two countries have turned to the swiss to convey messages to each other. it was also the protecting power of the u.s. in cuba from 1961 all the way to 2015. thanks to all of you for being part of my davos program this week. i will see you next week. i'm brian stelter. time for reliable sources. how the news gets made and how all of us can make it better. this hour we're talking about a lot of big stories including the democrat's television primary, what we're seeing from all the dems using television to launch their 2020 campaigns. we'll also be talking about two new books about life inside the trump white house and how these books are actually confirming two years worth of reporting. we'll get into that with the white house correspondents

association. and later one of america's top pollsters is here. let's begin with the president and his reality distortion field. let me explain what i'm talking about when i say that. president trump is famous for creating alternative realities. he has been able the past several years to persuade his voters, bring his base along with practically anything he says, right? he calls the news media fake, we know that. then he makes certain claims that are real. he tries to pit us versus him, et cetera. here is what's interesting about the past few days. we are seeing the biggest test yet of the president's reality distortion field. th this, of course, is because of the shutdown, end of the shutdown, which was a letdown for some of the president's biggest fan biggest fans on television and radio. they are calling him out for caving. so the test now is whether it

will be effective. he said that it was sunny when it was actually raining. but this is the toughest test yet of that reality distortion. so let's think about friday afternoon. the president comes out to the rose garden to announce a deal, which was him capitulating and ending the shutdown. listen to the applause. aides were dutyifully applauding. they weren't fooled. neither were most viewers. most important of all, neither were the president's biggest boosters on television. take a look at what lou dobbs said. >> she has just whipped the president of the united states.

this president said it would be conditional border security building that wall and he just reversed himself. that's a victory for nancy pelosi. >> lou dobbs of all people, calling out the president, saying he has been whipped. saying he has been rolled. ann coulter and others have criticized the president this weekend, backing down for his usual support of his policies. is this temporary or is this a real change, something that is going to affect the president going forward? shelby holiday is a senior reporter for t"the wall street journa journal". and josh mcintosh of the clinton campaign is a cnn political commentator. welcome to everybody. do you think i'm on to something here, shelby, that this is the greatest test yet of the president's ability to say it's sunny when it's raining? >> i think it's the greatest

test. when michael cohen pled guilty time after time he said he had nothing to do with the payment then you find out in the guilty plea that he did. it's a huge test for him and something he has been hammering away on for 30-plus days. >> on twitter saying i'm not going to cave. saying this is not a concession. >> he is still saying in three weeks we are off to the races if democrats don't come to the table. he is still backing into the corner and kicking the can down the road if you will. it makes you scratch your head when you see ann coulter on a liberal show and judge janine slamming ann coulter. you have people like sean hannity still defending the president, blaming the democrats for the shutdown. wall street journal poll this morning, even though his approval rating is holding steady, most americans are blaming president trump for the shutdown. in large part because he took

credit for the shutdown beforehand. >> maybe hannity will be the only guy left supporting president trump. >> his reality distortion field, i love this concept, only goes as far as he has a base willing to mimic it. it relies on that echo chamber. this week that echo chamber saw serious erosion, we're losing lou dobbs, ann coulter until he's left truly with just the sycophants, no principle that makes them support him, just that they're there to support him. that erosion happens from the caving and also the way his cabinet talked about it and how out of touch he showed his cabinet and himself to be. we spent friday talking about whether people could get loans to get them through the shutdown and whether they could buy groceries on credit. that kind of out-of-touch, tone deafness really hurts that last

remaining base. >> by the way, power of the press. >> absolutely. >> talking to cabinet officials, hearing those ridiculous quotes. oliver, is the president banking on journalist's short-term memory, the public's short-term memory by kicking the can three weeks down the road? >> i think he understands that the news cycle is fast and moves at a lightning speed and ain a few days we'll be talking about something else. what's important here is that while the president is losing supporters, he has kicked the can down the road for three weeks. what do hannity, limbaugh and people defending him now say he's going to get the funding eventually. this is part of the process. what do they say in a few weeks when nancy pelosi still not providing funding for the wall and he still doesn't have it? >> crisis at the border. be scared. there's a caravan. they're out to get you. that's the message on fox every hour. i think he will be under pressure in three weeks to do

something. i don't know what he will do. by the way, we don't know if he will have a state of the union any time soon. not on tuesday, pelosi's office said. that's a big factor. you've been covering stone, shelby, for a long time. can he talk his way out of this by giving so many tv interviews? >> what he's saying on tv will be very different from what we'll hear in court i think. he is fighting the charges, saying he's totally innocent, will defeat the charges in court but the fact is that he has to face these charges that he lied to congress. e-mails and text messages throughout the year show he totally contradicted himself. he did not have any e-mails in which he discussed julian assange. we've shown plenty of e-mails. >> just did. >> exactly. that will be hard to fight the charges and corrupt intent. he asked one of his associates to essentially plant a story

about his back channel to wikileaks and i think those things will be used against him in court and would be very hard to talk his way out of. >> to me, roger stone is an example of the age of the information war. >> yes. >> literally all over info wars. he knows how information is weaponized. he was talking to wikileaks for that very reason. oliver, do you see examples of an information war under way? >> absolutely. and roger stone was at the center of the most recent war on friday when you had him arrested by the fbi, indicted by special counsel robert mueller, that was the story. on the fringes of the right, a conspiracy theory spread. >> that we were tipped off by mueller. >> right. >> give me a break. >> to embarrass roger stone, tip off his arrest. they're saying it was propaganda. it started on the fringes of the right, moved in. >> and within an hour the president was tweeting. >> hijacked the dialogue a little bit. roger stone being arrested.

a lot of people, mainstream commentators and journalists started asking questions about this conspiracy theory. as journalists we have to be very careful not to allow bad actors to hijack the conversation and to move the story away from what it really should be. usually it's not positive for the president. >> this time last week there was a story about covington catholic in the news. it went viral in twitter. journalists have an unhealthy relationship with twitter, became a national story. this is another example of the information war. two different versions of what happened, no ability to agree on what happened and a story that frankly ends up frustrating everybody. >> it all comes from the roger stone moment was the day that the access hollywood tape came out showing trump saying -- >> wikileaks. >> it was also the wikileaks stuff. how misdirection works, how someone willing to manipulate

information. the next 23 days of the campaign that was left, we would have talked about that tape except then we got the wikileaks stuff. it was a highly effective bait. roger stone was effective at that. i don't think he's able to do that again, though. when he's talked about how he has been framed, that would somehow make him brag about his own crimes on twitter. you can't both be a master of the dark arts and point to how you're a master of the dark arts at the same time. it doesn't work that way. if you're confessing to what you're doing as you're doing it because you feel smart about doing it, that's going to come back in the end to undermine you. >> i hear you. twitter, instagram, posting meme. is. he tries to confuse people. >> completely. >> confusion is part of the information war. >> 100%. it's fascinating to see him give interviews on television, say

he's going broke and he's posting pictures of his gucci shoes on instagram. >> i haven't seen that one. >> as jess said, he likes to have it both ways. he's on television shows, spinning his narrative. when he goes into court, he has to face real charges that he lied to congress and there's lots of evidence that show what he said was provenly false. >> only two guests have been arrested in five years, michael cohen and roger stone. and i find that interesting. what a coincidence. these are the only two guests i've ever interviewed who have been arrested. anyway, thank you for being here. please stick around, jess. we have much more with you. quick break here and washington post jason orion is here, reflecting about his time behind bars in iran for doing his job. and one of the reporters laid off at huff post this week. what is going wrong in digital media?

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discover.o! i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ heartburn, ♪ indigestion, ♪ upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating will treat your stomach right. ♪nausea, heartburn, ♪ indigestion, upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... try pepto with ultra coating. it's been a brutal week of layoffs in the news business. print newspapers are continuing to cut back, victims of digital disrupters. some of those disrupters like buzz feed are shrinking, too. buzz feed laying off 220 people. verizon media cutting 100 jobs,

including a dozen at huff post. from rochester to knoxville to corpus christi. president trump read about this and said fake news and bad journalism has caused a big downturn. sadly, many others will follow. the people want the truth. the truth? the truth is he just posted yet another insulting tweet, mr. president. this time about american job losses. laura bassett joins me now. sadly, you were one of dozens let go. this is something i want to talk about, the reasons why, what's going on in the business i have to start with the president. what's your reaction to that tweet is this. >> how many people can say the president personally insulted him when they got laid off? he personally called out huff post and buzz feed. i can't say i'm surprised. like a dog on the bone we've been covering this mueller investigation, which is circling in on him and his close

associates are going to jail now. i think he will do anything at this point to kind of distract from his own lies and i thought it was particularly rich that he used truth with a capital t in that tweet. >> truth, yes. what is the truth about these layoffs? i've been covering these for years, digital media start-ups shrinking, same time print newspapers are shrinking. you're living it personally. what's going on? >> it's sad to see what's happening to journalism. it's not just the advent of the internet. since 2004, 20% of newsrooms, local newspapers have closed. and i think what's happening, we're getting squeezed out by big tech conglomerates. siphoning off ad rv new that should be going to us and not paying journalists for it. it's really hard for nonprestige outlets that aren't "the new york times" to stay afloat. >> what they call innovative.

google would say we're making the internet better for everybody. side effect is that the newsrooms are suffering as a result. >> right. >> this is a problem much bigger than huffpost or buzzfeed? >> yes. journalism is a pillar of democracy. we need wide ranging news out lets. >> you were notified about this on thursday. so were many of your colleagues. i've been reading about people getting death threats, laid-off journalists getting death threat. >> yeah. >> is this affecting you, too? >> yeah. what happens is fortune -- an incubator had this campaign for journalists to tell us to learn to code, to send us death threats. i've been getting death threats my entire journalism career. it's nothing new to me except the volume of it is really intense. after you have just lost your job it's incredibly painful. >> have you thought about what comes next? is it too soon to think about that? >> it's a little too soon for

me. i'm still in shock a little bit, still taking a breather. >> understandable. and, look, i think some of the layoffs at the parent company, verizon, this is still going on. we'll see more cuts in the coming week. it is a shame to see all these companies shrinking and it's much bigger than what the president is blaming it on. anyway, thank you for talking about this candidly. we had booked you about a different topic. let me turn to that. we had originally wanted to talk about the democratic primary. let's talk about reporting involving the primaries. more democrats entering the race every week. current field of candidates. they're spending time in iowa, new hampshire. we'll talk about another heavily trafficked campaign trail. this one right here in new york. let me show you the tv primary map we made. kirsten gillibrand, kamala harris on gma, so on and so on. the view is a big destination,

too. an exploratory committee was just announced and he will be on view this week. laura bassett, jess mcintosh. he announced with a video, online video this week, now going on the view and other shows. what do you notice about the different ways candidates are using television? >> first of all i think it's interesting you have these candidates coming to new york city to announce on late-night tv. i don't think that's where the primary is going to be held. >> colbert primary is a thing but you think something bigger is going on? >> i think this primary will be held on social media. really it depends on which voters you need to reach, right? again, i am specifically -- i have been spending time specifically looking at millennials. only 31% of millennials watch

cable news. by 2020, millennials are projected to be among the biggest voting bloc in the united states and 61% of them watch tv on streaming services so, you know, if you're reaching older voters who are tuning in to watch rachel maddow every night that will be important to be on maddow or on colbert. but if you look at the phenomenon of aoc, the candidates that are really exciting the younger voters are the ones that have been on social media. >> winning candidates will have to use both. >> exactly. >> what's your impression of this as someone who worked on the hilary campaign? >> it's exciting to watch them come out of the gate and say this is who i am. i was excited to see kamala announce on mlk day. it showed she was fully willing to lean into that. i'm sure that will be center in

her campaign. kirsten gillibrand talked about women. and we saw elizabeth warren announce over facebook live. she has the biggest name i.d. i think pulling back the curtain on that is probably more helpful for her than the others. so right now i'm just excited to watch all three of our top tier candidates, which are all women, announce with really good roll-outs and gain grass root support right away. >> i'm thankful they held press conferences after announcing. kamala held a press conference after announcing on gma. you mentioned aoc, alexandria occasio-cortez. what do you think is fueling the constant attacks on fox against this freshman congresswoman? >> look, she's got a target on her back because she ticks every

box that makes conservative men uncomfortable. she's a woman, latina, young, working class. she's a millennial. she's a democratic socialist. everything that makes people uncomfortable. and she's a star, a rising democratic star. she has a lot of power. people are really responding to her on social media, as charlotte said, in the same way that people responded to trump kind of emotionally a couple of years ago. so i think in some ways she's sort of the ideal anti-trump and she is threatening white conservative men's power and they're terrified of her. >> thus she's a feature on fox. is that what you're saying? >> absolutely. they're trying to take her down. they're using all the tricks in the patriarchy. >> replying to sean hannity. she was proud about a comment hannity made attacking her the other day. is she trying to have it both ways, charlotte, by one day she's criticizing the washington post fact checker, the next day she's talking about how important journalism is to society. is there something trumpian at all about her journalism critiques? >> i think it's important to

make a distinction here. donald trump is calling journalists the enemy of the people and aoc is not doing any of that. i think that she is in a unique position where she is getting a tremendous amount of scrutiny for a freshman congresswoman and is pushing back on the intense scrutiny. look, i don't see any male members of congress who are being fact checked with the intensity and specificity and frequency that she is. i think that she deserves to be fact checked. she is a member of congress. her statements are part of the public record and, you know, fact checkers need to be doing their jobs in checking what she is saying, but i think she's walking this line by sort of pointing out some of the biases that we do have in the media and also supporting the media as an institution and as an industry. >> jess, last word to you.

>> fact checkers have a really specific role. and i think it's okay to critique that when it goes beyond the yes or no of you have said a fact. when they fact check a more subjective claim like a living wage is necessary, using a 14-year-old paper called walmart a progressive success story i think it's okay for alexandria ocasio-co ocasio-cortez to say maybe that's not the source i would go for when i am critiquing walmart. i don't think that equates at all to an attack on journalism. i think it's incredibly important she's out there, trying to shape it herself and so far i think she's crushing it. >> when i say she's trumpian what i mean is what trump is to twitter she is to instagram live. but she's using multiple platforms really well, in a way that's raising her profile and making her the subject of national -- >> and using these to make the

policies everything people are talking. >> she has changed the tax conversation. >> to our panel, thank you. two tell-all books from former trump insiders. the books have something in common. i'll show you what it is, next. - [narrator] this is the moisturizer for rough, dry skin discovered by hard working farmers who shared it with family who recommended it to friends. udderly smooth, the moisturizer for rough, dry skin with no greasy after feel. hard working moisture-rich udderly smooth.

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but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.

and the army taught me a lot about commitment. which i apply to my life and my work. at comcast we're commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. chaos in the oval office, that's been the story for two years, according to report oof report anonymously sourced. then there's been denial after denial. there are two new tell-alls from two former trump insiders that basically confirm what anonymous

sources have been saying. chris christie's book is out on tuesday. so is chrliff sims book. "team of vipers" talks about how, quote, we leaked, we schemed, we backstabbed. we might have pretended we were doing it in the service of a higher calling, to protect the president, to deliver for the people but usually it was for ourselves. pretty candid comments in that book as well as christie's book. the chief washington correspondent for sirius xm radio. you have a daily show there on sirius. what are the points there from these books? cliff sims' book alleges that president trump himself is an anonymous source for reporters at times. is the trump white house as

leaky as it was in the beginning of the presidency? >> no. for the first year and a half you got the sense that every single senior official thought they were the communications director and could go out and freelance a message that they felt was on behalf of the president and as cliff points out was relatively self serving. i haven't read those two books. i will but i've read the excerpts and reviews and interviews with the authors and one of the interesting things that comes out -- you alluded to it in your intro. they're not anti-trump directly. they don't question the way he leads. one of the questions i would have is if you're writing about how everyone around you in this white house was terrible, does that somehow reflect on the president's style? the president likes to pit people against each other. he said as much. to your point about the anonymous source, yeah, that confirms a lot of reporting from his new york days. there doesn't seem to be the next step which is why? why has this white house been full of people who dislike and mistrust each other? >> why has it been filled with

r riff raff, in christie's words. we are in the longest drought. >> what's been lost about these regular briefings. talk to congress, agencies, think tanks, former officials, the briefing is part of the way we collect information. the broader context here is it's not just the white house briefing. there are a lot of other ways to get information. since last august you've seen two forces at play in the way this administration communicates. one is it was always true that only trump really spoke for trump but they really leaned in to this one. he does all those former q & a's

on the way to and from the marine one helicopter. a real shift toward less formal settings. he doesn't do a press conference in the east room. he does q & a along the rope line on the south lawn. sarah sanders doesn't do a briefing. talks to reporters in the dri driveway. a briefing, though, for one, smaller outlets, set time. the other is it's a one-stop shop where everyone, typing the news, broadcasting it, taking a picture of it, one stop where you can do it. one last concrete example, after the president announced his deal with north korea, regarding the repatriation of america remains, people from the pentagon who run that process. they gave us a step-by-step explanation of a technical process and i wouldn't want to go to either the president or sarah sanders. it's really technical, complicated. only those kinds of experts can walk us through it. >> that's interesting. that's the argument in favor of

daily briefings but do we have any sense that the white house will return to that format? >> as soon as they decide it serves them well. one of the things -- as i said, all these other ways that they communicate, but one thing that i think this is going to do, it's going to elevate the kind of reporting that they claim to dislike. they claim to dislike anonymously sourced palace intrigue stories or anonymously sourced stories about impending policy, whether or not it's actually accurate and not having formal, on-camera, on-record q & a, i think, will elevate the kinds of things that they claim not to like. >> olivier, thanks for being here. great talking with you. >> thank you. talking about trump's worst week ever. we're back in that name, in that game. having caved on the shutdown, will he stay in his cave now? the super bowl is seven days from today. normally the president gives a big super bowl interview. so far, cbs says there's no interview on the books. coming up here next on reliable sources, problem with cherry picking polls.

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sometimes president outright lies but sometimes it's more complicated, he will cherry pick information and share it in a way that's misleading. he touted a marist poll showing his support at 50%. those websites barely mention the margin of error because the sample of latinos surveyed was so small. plus or minus 9.9%. even then that poll was an outlier. these other polls have trump between 34 and 45%. look at the high, high margin of error. this is just a small example of how the president isn't always sharing completely wrong information but is doing it in a

way that ends up misleading people about where people really stand. ann, how do we get to the truth when we're looking at small sample sizes in polls like this? >> there are a couple of things you can do, brian. first of all, this same organization, the same sponsor and the same executer of the poll did a poll a year ago and it showed a much smaller approval rating for donald trump among latinos. that's what trump's tweet was recognizing, that his approval rating had grown. so, one way is to say, you know, has there been improvement with the same method over a certain period of time? >> that may be very real. that may be a legitimate improvement. >> that's right. but he's cherry picking within this poll, which i think also speaks to the volatility of small subgroups. there's a question in that same

poll about your intention to vote to re-elect president trump. the majority of the latino subgroup says no, definitely not. while the approval rating looks to be the good news, the definitely will not vote to re-elect president trump, i think it's 57% among that same latino group. that's the volatility of a small sampling. >> that's the volatility. >> yes. >> you've done recent polling about immigration. this debate about the so-called wall is so far from the reality of importance of immigration. let me put up this stream that says immigrants, are there too many living here lawfully? this is the question you asked in your polling. 54% of americans say no, there's not too many. only 16% say there are too many immigrants living here. why did you decide to ask the question in this way? >> this question is from the

grinnell college of national polls. this poll was an attempt to do just that, which is immigration peaks as an important issue in this country kind of around midterm elections and we wanted to get away from the hot topic of the nano second to say really what do people think about immigration and what is the overall mood in terms of being accepting or not accepting of immigrants and while the numbers you showed are exactly right and show a majority, strong majority saying there are not too many -- there's only 16% who say there are too many. there's very little difference by party. it is hard to look at these numbers and say we are a nation that is anti-immigrant. >> interesting. so that was one of the takeaways. you didn't know that was going to be the finding. >> no. >> but that was the finding. >> right. >> interesting. >> right. we wanted to find out either way. right. >> you're there in iowa. you'll be doing primary polling

ahead of the caucuses next year, next january. what do you -- wait, are they in february? >> february this year, right. fingers crossed. >> how should people like me interpret really early polling of the democratic field? >> well, these polls are early and there's a lot that's going to happen, even just in terms of candidates announcing. so from a pollster perspective, one of the difficulties we have is how many democrats can we test in a single poll? we try to decide what criteria we use for the names we'll test. these are terribly useful to see who is getting some traction and who is having a harder time. the caveat i'm going to say is when we first polled ahead of 2016, as early as 2014 we were doing our first poll. bernie sanders virtually unknown

polled at 3% in iowa with likely democratic caucusgoers. his numbers never went down. he marched up and up and up and up and up. and as you probably remember on caucus night he came within 28 bases points, i think, of beating hillary clinton. it was less than one delegate equivalent between them. i like to say this about iowa. any candidate can come to iowa and win. anyone. so i presume that as candidates begin to get their organizations together and start making a plan and start meeting people, you can expect that their poll numbers -- if they have the right message and good organization, their poll numbers will increase, no matter where they start. >> long time before next february. ann, thank you for being here. >> yes. >> speaking of all things iowa, monday night is the first cnn town hall of the 2020 season. jake tapper will moderate of

forum of kamala harris monday on cnn at 10:00 p.m. up next, when reporters become hostages. next. to be nobody but yourself a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪

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when washington post reporter was a hostage in iran, he now both men are out with new books this week. we brought them together for an interview. his book is called we want to negotiate. it is about the secret world of kidnapping hostages and ransom. here is a bit of what they told me. >> we are seeing record numbers around the world.

it is an occupational hazard. >> yeah. >> journalists, they have to, you know, live in repressive places. there's news being made there. they have to engage in groups because it's their job. this is an occupational hazard. i obviously start from that perspective chlgt we see the threat of kidnapping and attacks from criminal and terror groups is growing around the world. it is the decision to take that job. i went to iran willingly and willfully with what i took as a

personal mission on shedding light we find very misunderstood. i think that is so many foreign correspondents who are willing to take on these risks. the least we can do as a nation is do what we can to protect them when somebody gets in trouble. i hope that that's a lesson that is taken away from joel and my books. >> very well said. you can hear more through apple. coming up behind the story of three identical strangers. ? yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.

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cnn premiering a new film. three identical strangers, triplets separated at birth. one day in 1980 he receive add tip about two students at a local college. he is now the executive director center of news literacy. first, two students you hear about. >> the student says you won't believe this story. i had a best friend at my college who had to drop out and leave school and he came back the next year and everybody was so happy that he came back. when we asked him his name we went up to him, girls kissed him. he kept saying who are you talking about? it's not me. we discovered these were

identical twins separated at birth. one drops out of a small community college and the i dent kal twin shows up the next year. >> and then you heard from a third brother. >> and then believe it or not the next day or so we get a call from someone that says i saw my brothers on the front page of your newspaper. they have mine and i'll save that for the film tonight. what more than 25 years later is the lesson for journalists now that you're taeching journalism?

17 years later is when the dark part of the story comes out. >> it starts at a fairy tail. it starts as we get inan dated saying this is a wonderful story. finally a happy ending. the life of the story is 20 minutes the power of a follow-up. >> we have got to follow up. >> thank you for being here. it is tonight at 9:00 p.m. it is amazing. that's all for the televised

edition of reliable sources. look me up on twitter. it is possible to improve the show every week. we'll see you back here this time next week. >> what was the point? republican senator rubio weighs in next. >> plus mueller indicts president trump's long time friend and adviser, roger stone. >> i know i'm innocent. >> why kid so many lie about dealing with russia or wiki leaks? >> and get t