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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  February 10, 2019 7:00am-8:00am PST

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this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show, venezuela on the brink. maduro maintains his hold on the presidential palace but more and more governments are backing the opposition. how will this standoff end? i'll ask the experts. l ronald regan part of america as the shining city on a hill, a beacon of freedom.
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>> and she's still a beacon. still a magnet for all who must have freedom. >> bernard olivie says that is over. >> america first. >> that america has abdicated its global role. what does that mean? i'll ask him. then -- >> welcome to your first day. we will never go away. >> from the women's march of 2017 to the me too movement. >> me, too. i have been sexually harassed. >> the incredible power of women's anger. >> nobody believes me. >> rebecca traceter on how this income to minable force is changing the world. but first here's my take. the trump administration faces a test in venezuela. it must pursue a policy that helps usher out the owdius regie of maduro. it must support a political transition that doesn't threaten
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the oligarch so much that they don't want it. can it find its voice on venezuela and foreign policy? so far there are signs that the new democratic foreign policy could be reflectionism that is not so much different than president trump. tulsie gabbard said the united states needs to stay out of venezuela. let them determine their future. we cannot hand pick leaders for other countries on behalf of multi-national corporate interests. senator bernie sanders notes we must learn the lessons of the past and not be in the business of regime change or supporting coups. the left wing here and 70 other academics and activists have signed a letter largely blaming the crisis in venezuela on u.s.
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actions. does one really have to explain that venezuela's problems are primarily caused by its nasty government, that the venezuelan people have not been allowed to pick their leaders or determine their future. they have clung to power by rigging elections, crushing opposition parties, muzzling the media and using lethal force against protestors. since 2015 an estimated 3 million venezuelans have fled the country. that's 10% of the country, equivalent to an exodus of 30 million americans. but millions more venezuelans are staying and fighting. they have come out in droves to vote against this government almost defeating maduro in 2013 despite an unfair election and successfully bringing an opposition parliament to power in 2015. fr the last few years venezuelans have organized protests against the regime enduring tear gas, and they have
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rallied around juan guado and they're trying to shift the regime. there's a larger debate to be had about the path forward for progressive foreign policy. there is appropriate skepticism about a $700 billion defense budget. there are lessons of over extension american power from intervention that is have gone on too long. policy towards venezuela will require attack, regional engagement, but to shield us from the danger of mistakes and bad actions, the answer is surely not resolute inaction. in a brilliant book released last year of foreign policy for the left, the card carrying leftist michael wallzer says the default position has tended to be inaction. the world is complicated, american power can be misused. best to just stay the hell out. of course, those criteria could
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be a counsel for inaction at home as well. after all, a swift transition to medicare for all would also be fraught with complexities and risks. wallzer makes a powerful case that in a world beset by wars, far right nationalism, tyrannical governments, gross inequalities and widespread poverty and hunger, the world requires intelligent leftist attention. he writes, our deepest concern is solidarity with people in trouble. right now there are millions in trouble in our hemisphere who are trying to help themselves. they deserve the active support of the american left. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column this week. and let's get started. let's dig in deeper on
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venezuela's crisis. joining me now in d.c. is the former minister of trade of venezuela. once also director of the country's central bank. he is a distinguished fellow at the carnegie endoumt. here is cheryl o'neill. moises, explain what is going on in venezuela right now because there's so much confusion. from your point of view, how do you see it? >> as you say, there is plenty going on but i see three main battle grounds. one is they keep placing the border between venezuela and colombia. the united states and a bunch of lattin american countries are providing food to be sent and the maduro government wouldn't let it in. that tension is going to build because it is -- again, there's a starving country waiting for it. so it's going to be part of
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that. the second battleground is the international area. they're trying to get control of the assets that the government of venezuela has internationally. not only the oil company and energy company that is owned by the venezuelan national company. the control of scity citgo is important. it's in the military bases is the third area. the top officers are well. they are corrupt. some of them are drug traffickers. some of them are strongly incentivized with money and other incentives by the government to be loyal. the rank and file is suffering like the citizens. >> shannon, when one looks at this in other historical cases,
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samuel huntington said the moment when you see a transition is when there's a crack within the ruling elite. so far no crack in venezuela by which i mean you're not seeing generals defect by and large, one or two minor ones. why are the generals staying so close to the regime? >> so part of the reason you're not seeing military pull away, at least we haven't seen it so far, is this is in many ways, shapes, forms a military regime. the ministers, those who run food, those who control the state-owned energy company, those who are in control of governors and other positions, they are all military generals. so the military while maduro is a civilian, the military really controls this government. it's their government to decide to keep or to stay or to keep maduro or not. the other reason i think we're still seeing this coalition of cohesiveness, we haven't seen the cracks, is there are outside players propping these people
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up. so far we have seen the u.s., lattin american nations have stood against maduro. china and russia have not. we've seen them give tacit if not explicit support. the military officers feel they have that backing. >> moises, what is the path to accelerate this transition? is it external pressure? is it internal dem mon sflags what is the most likely one to be effective? >> everything. everything has to be put into play. everything is important. the international community and as shannon said, we have a divided community. we have the democratic country supporting guadro. we have russia, cuba, iran, turkey, so on supporting maduro. that will continue. of course pressure on the military and financial pressure. the government, the maduro government will soon run out of
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money or will have just very limited resources and that -- the generals depend on that. and once they start suffering for lack of money, they may start rethinking their alliances. >> shannon, there seems to me to be an interesting difference between the attitude of russia and china. russia is really the spoiler, wants to pursue an anti-america path. what about russia? >> they have been the biggest supporters so far. china wants to make sure its investment in venezuela pays off. as china has gone all over the world and gone into latin america, venezuela has been the biggest bet. it wants to get paid back. it has bet on the maduro government as the one who will send oil but i do think with the right pressures, with the right reachout and cooperation they would also work with a new government that would be democratically elected.
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>> moises, what about the government in washington? how has the trump administration handled this? >> well, they have been very active and very engaged. the main player has been senator marco rubio. they outsourced the venezuelan government. he's very well informed. he spends time and energy and political capital on the venezuelan issue. at this point they are staying as closely aligned with the lima group, which is the group of lattin american countries, canada and the united states that is coordinating the international pressure against the regime. >> south florida strategy towards venezuela coming out of washington? >> that's what it seems so far.
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it seems there's room for the democrats to come in. democrats would support free and fair elections, they would support humanitarian aid. the one thing that's missing in the trump policy is what do you do with the 3 million ve venezuelans who have left the country? there's room for the u.s. to accept them. also help the people who are living mostly throughout latin america today. >> shannon, moises, pleasure to have you both on. thank you. next on "gps," the trump administration's activist approach in venezuela is an aberration on many international issues. the white house is hands off, get out. my next guest says this means america has abdicated its responsibility to the world. he will explain when we come back. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪
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♪ one plus one equals too little too late ♪ ♪ a sock-a-bam-boom ♪ who's in the room? ♪ love is dangerous ♪ but driving safe means you pay less ♪ ♪ switch and save ♪ yes, ma'am excuse me, miss. ♪ does this heart belong to you? ♪ ♪ would you like it anyway? [ scatting ] . after withdrawing from the
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paris climate deal, the iran nuclear deal, the trans-pacific partnership and threatening to pull out of nato, president trump's america first is withdrawing america from the over seas military interventions. president trump said all-american troops were coming back from syria. this week the head said he hadn't been contacted. so how does american foreign policy look to the rest of the world? there's a new book called "the empire and the five kings, america's abdication and the fate of the world." the book couldn't be more timely. when you hear those facts that i pointed out, trump saying we're getting out of syria, we're getting out of afghanistan, how do you think that is seen in the west of the world?
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>> what is the most sad is that from the rest of the world it seems that america sometimes does not exist any longer. we have entered into a sort of pre-colombian world. >> what do you mean by that? >> putin asks as if america had not been discovered. erred d erdogan, he acts as if he had nothing to fear from america and so on. so for a lot of america, the image of this world is so desparing and pre-colombian. >> pre-colombian, pre1492. >> prewithout america. a world without america. this is how it seems from the
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people all over the world had always hope in america when they were wrecked, when they were killed, when they were massacred. they had this light of candor which was the shining city upon the hill. democrat, republican, no matter. this candor is switching off from their point of view. >> and people have talked about it as being impunity. you see these trends as very linked. america withdraws and as one writer robert kagan says, the jungle grows back. >> his book is a great book and it is not only the jungle. it is the political nature. hate the emptiness. when america withdraws, what happens in the space which is liberated, all of these new
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powers try to take advantage so you have those are what i call the five things. they are former empires where big empires, five centuries, ten centuries ago. >> china, iran. >> prussia, turkey, russia, their empire. we thought that they were to live f defeated forever. no, they come back. undemocratic authoritarian powers, if there is an imperialism to the imperialism, the worst, it is not the american imperialism, the russian one. it is imperialism, look at what happened to the poor kurds.
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the chinese imperialism. commercial. it's ottoman imperialism. erdogan believes himself not as a turk but as the revivor of the old ottoman imperialism. this is the world. american people may be, if i dare say, they are so obsessed by the domestic policy. so obsessed by the tweets of donald trump. donald trump is nothing. he is just a phenomenon of this big picture where america is no longer playing and the west in general, their role gone. >> you have a great sense of history. you've watched this personally since the 1990s, the crisis in bosnia, in other parts of the world, in the middle east. do you think this is a temporary pull back and that eventually we will be back on track to a world of expanding lib berttive and democracy and order?
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>> what i think that's at the beginning of the '90s, first of all we saw that francis fukuama who is a great thinker was wrong. history has not ended. there is reset at this moment, beginning of the '90s, reset of history. with new stakes. with new agents. with new actors. and with these new empires which i described in the book. this is number one. number two, what will be the outcome of this new game, everything is possible. it is in our hands if we want. because the west, first of all, the flame of liberty is not dead. look at what happens in america. look at this real wall. not the wall between mexico and america, the wall of public opinion on which your president
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is breaking his own head in europe saying you have a growing number of people who stand with macron and not with all of the crazy buffoons and clowns of italy. the other point that is encouraging, these high kings who pretend to reinvent their own imperialism, to make an empire, you need more than military force. you need more than trade and like china, you need the news. you need culture. you need spirit and when you see these five kings, what strikes you is that they are zombies at many regards. putin is a zombie. erdogan is a zombie. the ayatollah in iran are ghosts of themselves. it is a sort of dance of ghosts in these place.
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so maybe they will invent something. maybe they will address the humanity in general for the moment not, so we have, if we want, if we wake up, if we refine the sense of our duty, they can lose. still can lose. >> balways a pleasure to have you. >> thank you. for me. next on "gps" we're all so addicted to our phones and computers, what would happen if the internet suddenly went off? it is increasingly happening across the globe when governments decide they don't want their citizens to have access. i will tell about this disturbing trend when we come back. what'll you choose? how 'bout lobster lover's dream? more like a lobster dream come true. a butter-poached maine tail, roasted rock tail and creamy lobster linguine. or try new lobster in paradise. it's a crispy coconutty, vacation on a plate.
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the internet was naturally independent of the tir ran nis. zam bab way was the fifth country to shut down the internet. the government ordered telecom companies to block internet services domestically. the high court eventually ordered services restored. before that the democratic republic of the congo cut off internet access for 20 days after a contested election. in 2018, 188 full or partial shutdowns of the internet were ordered by governments around the world according to the advocacy group access now. that's up from 75 in 2016. these shutdowns ranged from blocking certain websites or social media sites to full internet blackouts. and it's the crux of the great paradox of the internet today. more and more people all over the world are coming online and
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that's obviously progress, but governments are increasingly controlling online spaces and the easy optimism about a free and open internet that marks its inception feels a bit misplaced. according to an october report from freedom house, 2018 marked the eighth consecutive year in which internet freedom declined worldwide. now there's been one big exception to the idea of a free internet from the start, china. there the internet always has been a world garden. the 800 million users are protected from the corrupting influences of google, facebook, "the new york times." the authorities in china shut down the internet in the fractious western region of shin jung as far back as 2009 for almost a year. as more people come online all over the world, more countries are using the tools from china's playbook. these shutdowns aren't happening
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in small, fragile democracies or states. india, the largest democracy in the world, also leads the world in the total number of internet shutdowns. more than 100 in 2018. they have a great disruption economically. shutdowns from 2012 to 2017 dcot the indian government $3 billion. it appears more and more governments are expand being the control of the internet beyond shutdowns. last year egypt enacted a law in which social media users with more than 5,000 followers have to register with the government and face regulations as media outlets. several similar rules appeared in russia and china. it developed along two increasingly divergent paths. there is the flawed but relatively open and unrestricted version of the internet seen in
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much of the west and then there is the shackled version seen in china, and increasingly exported to other parts of the developing world. all of this has drowned out the early optimism of technologies democratizing power. technology is no more free of bias or abuse than the humans who strel and the leaders who control it. next on gps, how did we get from the women's march of 2017 to the me too movement towards a number of women who are serving in the capitol. rebecca traceter traces the remarkable power of women's anger. and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to hit the ground running. only at a sleep number store. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 24-month financing on all smart beds.
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their own accomplishment. there are now a record 131 women serving in congress. this surge of women elected in 2018 followed the women's march of 2017 and the me too movement and yet the percentage of women in the american legislature is still low for the developed world. my next guest wrote a book that digs deeply into what she calls the revolutionary power of women's anger. the book is called "good and mad." pleasure to have you on. >> great to be here. >> what i love about your book is you're telling us a hidden history of the politics of the western world. what you say is ever since the french revolution every 50 years there is something that i was not aware of, kind of a moment or a movement of women's anger. >> a lot of them, i think we often to the degree we have been taught of the political import of women's anger, it's been in the context of explicitly women's movements.
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the feminist movement of the 1970s, the suffrage movement in the late 19th, early 20th century. yet, in fact, women's ang grer has been catalytic in movements that we don't necessarily associate with women. for women, the labor movement in this country. in the 1830s it was women working in the textile mills who staged some of the first walkouts, the first strikes, formed one of the first unions in the country. it was immigrant laborers who called for the walkout of 20 thousand shirt manufacturing workers. we don't think of the labor movement in this country as having been initiated by women, and yet it was. so part of what i'm doing in this book is looking at how women ae women's anger has been
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incredibly cat a lytic at the start of so many of our laws, our customs and yet we've never been taught the story or given the view of women's anger as politically potent. >> you use the word anger which is so interesting. there are so many issues you think of and you look back and say how could it possibly be that women were largely not allowed to be doctors and lawyers. there are all of these inequalities and various ways in which women were suppressed. you think thank goodness they were overcome. did it take anger or are you kind of characterizing it correctly? >> well, part of the project of this book is to seek out where there was anger and to question the role that it did play to get women to do the work of organizing, talking to each other, forming the kinds of coalition that is might lead to social movements and it's hard to do that. women's anger when it has
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existed has been covered over by the people telling the story of it. a very clear example of this is the way we have been taught about rosa parks, for example, the woman who did not give up her seat in 1955 on the montgomery bus. i was taught in the american school system about rosa parks as noble, demeuer, exhausted, heroic. undoubtedly heroic and undoubtedly catalytic to a civil rights movement. she was a calm seamstress. she was a furious worker. she was an investigator for the naacp. she investigated gang rapes of black women by white men and false claims of sexual violence made by white women of black men to justify their lynchings. her act was political and conscious. she wrote about her life as having been shaped by her anger.
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so we have to ask ourselves that question. were there anger in places that -- was there anger in places and in people that was never transmitted to us? it's a hard question to answer because we have to uncover so much of what these women were thinking and in some cases might have committed to a letter or told a story about, but in many cases were encouraged to never express it, which is fury or dissatisfaction. >> and how to make sense of the fact that when betty freedan and that movement of feminism in the '50s and '60s comes up, lots of women, majority of women disapproved. they disapproved of that anger and of course the same question is sometimes asked about the vote for donald trump. how could it be that so many women, particularly white women, voted for him? >> well, one of the things that was made clear but has long been true to those who look at it, white women have often -- have
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always since they've been keeping track, the majority have voted for the republican candidate in all but two elections, '92 and '96. one of the things that we're talking about more and need to talk about more is the incentives put in place within a country that was built by white patriarchs around white patriarchy. whiteman built our government, our systems, our laws, our courts. there are incentives put in place. one of those incentives is offered to white women, which is defense of a white patriarchy from which they benefit as white women and through their associations with white men and white people. >> so they are voting their race rather than their gender? >> it's an oversimplified way of putting it, but they certainly -- a significant number of white women, in many cases the majority, will defend a fundamentally regressive, conservative white patriarchal system. >> why would you zealously
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uphold an order -- people often say women are socially conservative. that's one of the lines that explains it. i always think it's odd because the social structure, the traditional social structure is quite unfair to women. >> yes, it is. well, in part its their recognition that they do benefit as white women, even as they may be subordinate as women to men. but also sometimes it takes a moment. one of the things that we've seen in these recent years since the election of donald trump is one of these moments of revelation that in fact white women aren't protected within white patriarchies. even though there is a sense that if you're attached to white men and white women you will enjoy certain benefits and certain kinds of power. in part, the loss of hillary clinton, a white woman, who in fact had worked her way to the top of a white patriarchal system, the political system,
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the stories of some of the actresses who first spoke of their experiences with harvey weinstein and then with a whole other series of people, again, women who were wealthy, had privilege, had benefits, had sort of won white patriarchy and yet were still assaulted, in many cases violently, had their careers damaged, told the stories of how sexism had reshaped their lives. the testimony of christine blaisey-ford. her story was not believed she could be assaulted according to her account. her story was not believed, not taken seriously enough to halt brett kavanaugh. this is a moment of revelation. it's one of the moments that you're talking about when there are a series of events that reveal that even white women who enjoy some of the greatest and most obvious forms of power and privilege within this country are not, in fact, protected from
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sexism, from misogyny, from subordination of patriarchy. >> are you saying the whole culture of male/female dynamics, whether in an office, bar, restaurant, one-on-one groups has all been written, shaped with male preferences in mind? >> yes. >> what we need is a different kind of one that incorporates how women would like to experience it? >> again, that relates to some of what people worried about around me too. categories are collapsing. during the #metoo movement you heard women telling all these stories that had clearly been bottled up for a long time inside. not all of them were sexual violence or sexual harassment. and yet it was about the feeling that they've sustained harm, they had suffered consequences, you know, for reasons having to do with their gender in their workplaces or perhaps within their relationships where having
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a conversation in this country where we're actually doing the very hard work of addressing sexism and misogyny and the toll that it takes on women, personally, professionally, politically. and that is a broad category when we actually start to break down the ways that sexism and misogyny has affected and shaped women's experiences in this country and the way that we've built things around men and as you say their preferences, their needs, their power. that's a conversation that contains multitudes and it doesn't fall into neat categories because that is describing a world. >> i have to ask you, what do you think of nancy pelosi and her wielding of power, female, male -- is it a moment? >> well, she's a remarkable figure, and, yes, the way -- the lack of apology with which nancy pelosi has in fact always approached power is very unusual
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when you look at the history of female politicians in this country and how they have been taught up until very recently to apologize for, to disguise the degree of power which they have and the degree to which they have enjoyed using it. nancy pelosi has been unapologetic. she says i'm good at my job. i interviewed her this past fall. she will talk about the way that she, you know, exerts control over her caucus, that she whips votes. it's actually a tremendous model. it's interesting. i think a lot of the reasons that people don't like nancy pelosi on the right and left are ideological. they see her as a far leftist from san francisco or want to portray her that way or on the left they see her as a centrist squish. her job isn't ideological. it's herding cats in her often fractious caucus. she's so good at it, it's something to watch. and i think she is a fascinating
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model of a woman who is totally unafraid to use her power. >> totally fascinating. thank you so much. >> thank you. and we will be back. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ when cravings hit, hit back. it's the most wonderful life on earth. choose glucerna, with slow release carbs
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