part of that change. >> i covered congress for a long time. i never knew there was a beauty shop there. >> neither did they. very interesting, good work done, appreciate it. >> thanks, wolf. >> i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. follow me on twitter and instagram, tweet the show at cnn, erin burnett "out front" starts right now. breaking news a judge just ruling that paul manafort intentionally lied to the fbi, robert mueller and the grand jury, including lying about his interactions with a russian linked operative. what does this mean for manafort? >> plus, president trump looking for a land mine in the latest border deal, his word and some republicans seem eager to give him an out, turn it down, shut it down. another shut down? plus roger stone speaking out more than ever, now selling stones and shirts. gag order? let's go out front. good evening, i'm erin burnett. out front, the breaking news in robert mueller's russia

investigation. this happened moments ago. a judge ruling moments ago, here is the ruling right now on the trump campaign chairman, paul manafort intentionally lied repeatedly to the fbi, the special counsel and the grand jury even after his plea deal, agreeing to cooperate and lying again. a violation of the deal. they say this includes lies about his interactions with long time russian operative konstantin kilimnik, spy in a casual word. an operative who is alleged to have ties to russian intelligence. that's the allegation, the judge writing because of the finding, the special counsel is no longer obligated under the plea deal to support a reduction in manafort's sentence. obviously that is where then you get a lot of big questions about what president trump will do. out front live in washington, so shimon prokupecz, this news breaking, i hope you have had time to go through this as quickly as possible. what else did the judge say. >> the key is the judge agreeing

with the mueller team with the special counsel that paul manafort lied repeatedly, and the thing the judge makes a point about is she says he lied about facts that are material to the investigation. significant, you know, she's pointing out how he intentionally lied to the fbi, to the office of the special counsel and then even when he appeared before the grand jury, and then like you said, one of the big things that we have been discussing in all of this is this russian operative, the man that the fib has said -- fbi has said was working on behalf of the russian government, kilimnik, one of the things the judge points out he specifically lied about, she says the special counsel's office established a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant paul manafort intentionally made multiple false statements to the grand jury concerning matters that were material to the investigation, his interactions and communications with kilimnik. this was something that the special counsel made a big deal out of at the hearing. they said his interactions with

kilimnik, manafort's interactions with kilimnik goes to the heart of the special counsel's investigation. what we don't know is why did paul manafort lie, why did he lie after agreeing to cooperate with the special counsel's office. obviously his attorneys say he didn't lie, the judge disagree with him, and now it's going to be about his sentencing. does this in any way affect his sentence, the judge in her filing here, in her decision does not say that. she says she's going to wait to see more information before making a decision. either way, paul manafort is facing a substantial amount of jail time. how this affects everything in the end, who knows, but, you know, he could potentially now spend the rest of his life in jail. >> which obviously, so you're talking ten plus years or something, right? >> yeah, it's a lot. >> a lot. all right. thank you very much, shimon. as i said, we're just starting to go through this. if you think about the significance of that. now you're talking about ten

plus years, on the back of the hand there possible. that could be a life sentence. out front former assistant secretary for the department of homeland security under president obama, that's juliette kiam, and white house correspondent for american urban radio networks, april ryam. the judge is ruling that the former trump campaign chairman. intentionally lied repeatedly after agreeing to cooperate with mueller, lied to the fbi, the grand jury and to bob mueller, establishing that in several areas, including communications with this alleged russian operative. why would he do that after agreeing to cooperate and what's the significance of the fact that the judge has now ruled that he, in fact, did? >> well, there appears to be two reasons that he might do it. one is that he thinks he can get a pardon by going light on some of the facts and trying to twist them and not fully cooperating

and sending signals all out. one of the lies that was not established by a preponderance of the evidence was the last one that he had misstated his communication with the administration so i don't know what that means in the bigger picture, but the second reason he might be lying and i think is more dominant is fear for his life and his own family's well being, that he's been playing with russian heavy weights who do not like to have anybody go in and testify against them or to reveal their secrets and that's why he's taken this course. >> that's a pretty significant thing to say. i mean, juliet, let me ask you. because there were five areas that the special counsel said that manafort lied about. the judge is saying that, you know, she's going to say for sure that he lied on three, right, i mentioned one of them, right, the interactions with this alleged russian operative, the others, payments to a trump

pac law firm, payment back and forth, and also information material to another doj investigation. we don't know exactly what that is, or do we? >> no. >> we don't. >> no, we don't. >> it could be very significant, we just don't know. >> exactly. it could be any number of these investigations that are going on around the family because doj would also include a u.s. attorney's office, so it might be something going on in new york. >> so that could include southern district. >> that could southern district. if you believe that the judge would have set these up no chronological order, the big one is intentionally lying. this is what the judge found. it wasn't a lie. it was an intentional lie about his interactions with konstantin, and discussions about the ukraine policy, as we know from reporting today from the "washington post," it's this

meeting that occurred between gates, manafort's number two, and manafort, in an exclusive bar, it's membership only in the 666 building that was owned by the kushners, which has become the focal point and that's the question of whether polling data was actually shared, so, you know, the judge is calling a lie a lie, which is essentially something really bad happened in that meeting, and manafort continues to lie about it even though he was given this sweetheart deal. >> and i do want to remind everybody, you know, that the platform at the republican national convention, the republican platform on that whole issue was changed, so there was a very specific policy change that obviously could have come from this. april, paul manafort now could go to jail for the rest of his life, which means, it's

possible, in fact, it's probable that his way out of that is a pardon from this president. that's his way out. is that going to happen? >> well,s way i understand it, it's not off the table. the president smiles favorably upon you if you're in trouble and you do not get him in trouble. it sounds so elementary, but it is the case. this president has not ruled it out but he actually has been talking to people, from what i understand, a very close circle and he's listening, and the way that he gets information about manafort is through, from what i'm hearing from sources is through those who are mutual friends. and we'll find out how this all plays out. so we'll see how this plays. i mean, there are things that you see on the face of it, but there are things also that's behind the scenes that have been going on from what sources are saying. >> so john dean, what do you think the significance could be here? obviously you have this whole

issue with konstantin kilimnik, and manafort fearing for his life or family's life and material related to another doj investigation. we don't know what that is. that could be significant given what's going on in terms of investigations possibly into money and the trump family. >> well, one of my reactions is that this is only one case where he has pled guilty. he might get a little bit of reduction of sentence for that. but he's also facing a case in virginia with a whole different judge and a whole different set of sentencing issues for very serious financial crimes. that's going to make it much more difficult to pardon this man where you have two very different kinds of cases and it will be clear a that the president is playing games to let this man off at this point once he's sentenced in both courts. >> but julia if he can't pardon him, does manafort, then,

finally flip? are they going to get what they need from him now? they know he has lied. they have obviously proven by other means, texts, e-mails, documentation that it was a lie. is there more that he has to give that would help him at this point? it's hard to tell because he's such an unreliable witness at this stage. if you're the prosecutor in any of these case, you're not going to want to rely on manafort. he was given the sweetheart deal and lied throughout it, and i think, you know, this goes to john dean's point, which is this is manafort has no values. his only value is to protect himself. it's not like he's going to find some, you know, savior in truth at this stage, and so i just think that it's worth, you know, we're looking at the pieces of what they found him to lie about. what is not in question at this stage is that the campaign chairman of the trump campaign which has already been warned by the fbi at this stage that the

russians are trying to infiltrate the campaigns as well as the election meets secretly at a secret club with his number two, with someone with ties to russian intelligence and hands him polling data. now, people are going to parse whether that data was important or not important. just take a step back. like, two plus two equals four. this is the reality of what this campaign was doing. at no stage did they feel any responsibility to stop this russian madness. in fact, they were willing to spoke cigars with these guys and that's what's sometimes lost in the details of did he lie or not lie about one of these points. >> i think you put it aptly, when you take a step back and lay it out, it's clear. that does beg the question of what juliette laid out, did the president know and what's the standard, right, for judging whether he knew or was actively encouraging this happening. >> you know, what's the

standard, we're going to find out what the white house rolls out but the bottom line is the question, that's right, what did he remember, what did he understand it to be, and they play these word games a lot, and we know, in fact, that there were people within that inner circle that had been working in the campaign to get information, this opposition research or what have you, to get information. we know that. the bottom line is when these cigar meetings happen and the meetings in trump tower happen, you know, who was there, what did they say, what was actually on the table, and the question is did it actually go to the highest person in this whole scheme of things, which is the president, and the question is there factual tangible paper trails that you could actually connect the president to. that's the issue. that's the issue. >> and i guess it brings me back. we're going to get roger stone later this hour, but back to the one line in the roger stone filing, right, who directed the senior campaign official to tell

roger stone to go get the dirt, right, who was that person who was more senior than a senior campaign official perhaps could be what this comes down to. thank you all. next, bernie sanders, the latest democrat to say higher taxes on the rich is the answer. congresswoman, ilhan omar fighting back against president trump but refusing to take questions. >> the question about your tweet. you had a tweet. and the president says he doesn't want another shut down but is he looking for an excuse to do just that. it would do mor. if i built a van, it would carry my entire business. i'd make it available in dozens, make that thousands of configurations. it would keep an eye on my fleet. [ beeping ] and an eye out for danger. with active brake assist. if i built a van, i'd make it available in diesel and gas. and i'd build it right here, in south carolina. introducing the all new sprinter starting at $33,790.

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if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. tonight, senator bernie sanders with a tax hike proposal, one that would raise taxes on people making more than $250,000 a year. he's got a bill, the 2020 democrats are jumping on the band wagon, including kamala haha hari sreenivas harris. >> we're going to do that by having the wealthiest people in this country finally start paying their fair share of taxes. >> those loopholes and give aways to the people at the top, and an ultra millionaires tax to make sure that rich people start doing their part for the country that made them rich. >> once you get to the tip pi tops on your $10 million, sometimes you see tax rates as high as 60 or 70%.

>> out front now, robert rice, labor secretary under president clinton, and steven moore, informal white house adviser. bernie sanders wants to raise social security taxes and investment taxes, 6 1/2% there, this is the latest proposal from a democrat. >> it sure is and you're exactly right, erin, that almost every democratic presidential candidate is coming out with some new plan to raise taxes even higher on the one who came before them. look, i hate it. i think we should have a flat tax in this country, where everybody pays the same rate, get rid of the loopholes and deductions. what i hate is this hate the rich mentality, that somehow the rich are sinister people. i like bill gates, i like warren buffet. i like lebron james, tom bray, i like people that are successful in this country. one other quick thing, the top 1%, robert you know these statistics, already pay about 40% of the income tax.

they pay more than the bottom 90%. the rich already do pay their fair share, robert. >> robert? >> first of all, steve moore, nobody hates the rich just because you're saying to the rich we expect more from you in terms of -- >> they're saying fair. what is fair? >> erin, i think it means paying the same kind of share that is corresponding to the pain that is actually being attributed. that is for most of our history since the second world war, certainly the first three decades after the second world war, the rich paid about 70%. that was the highest marginal tax rate, and nobody complained that that was unfair. >> you know as well as i know there were so many loopholes that that was not the effective rate. >> erin with all the deductions, even the tax credits, the rich

at the time were paying more than 50%. steve moore is saying that's not fair or that's bad or somebody hates the rich, no, more and more of the nation's income is now concentrated at the very top. most americans have had no income, if you adjust for inflation, in their income in 40 years. why shouldn't the rich pay more when more and more is concentrated at the top? >> steve? >> this is exactly the opposite of the strategy that we used when we put the tax plan together for donald trump, which is the lower taxes on people, by the way, this top 1%, you know the numbers, 60% of them, own, operate or invest in small businesses so if you take the money from these businesses, how are you going to get more jobs. our whole idea was let's provide tax benefits to businesses so they can hire more workers and pay more wages and by the way, that's what the data is showing it works. >> trickle down economics has never worked and going back to your point about steve moore, about the top 1%, paying 40% of

income taxes, that does not take account of all of the social security taxes, which have increased as a proportion of federal revenues. it doesn't that into account state and local property taxes, sales taxes, if you look at all of the taxes, actually, the rich are not paying anywhere close to their fair share. the rich -- they own the assets. >> in terms of a financial hole, that should help contributions. >> look, i want a system where we are trying to make poor people rich, not rich people poor. i want a system that allows everyone to succeed. i don't think americans, generally if their ship comes in and they make it successful in america, i don't think they want 50 or 60 or 70% of their money to go wherever. >> there's less income mobility. >> excuse me, where are we going to get the money for education, for job training, for infrastructure, for all of the investments that we need in order to help people actually,

everybody, not just the rich, everybody be better. >> steve one of the issues is income mobility has gone down, right, to bob's point, income mobility has gone down over the past decade. it's harder to get from a lower level to a higher level than it used to be. >> not in the last couple of years. we're seeing people see increasing in their income. >> hold on, let me just make the point. when you look at the latest cnn poll of democrats because we're talking about democrats proposing these, 69% of democratic voters support a tax on people with assets over $50 million. that's elizabeth warren's idea. >> the taxes on the rich, if a democrat wins, you're getting taxes, right, that is what it means. >> erin, it's not just democrats. 45 to 50% of republicans are saying we should also raise taxes on the rich. >> yeah, but i think the democratic party has been the party of greed and envy, that they basically think the way we can solve all of our problems is to take money from rich people. >> republicans trickle down economics.

>> everybody should pay for it. why should only 1%, you know, such a huge percentage of -- gl if you look at the total tax burden, the rich are paying a very very small percentage relative to everybody else and by the way, if you look at bernie sanders proposals with regard to social security, the last time i looked, once you hit 129,900 dollars, you don't pay a dollar more in social security taxes. why should there be that cap, it's not more medicare. you don't have that for medicare. >> that was the system set up by the president roosevelt back in the 1930s. it was basically -- >> the cap was not there. i'm sorry. you're wrong. that cap was not there. >> now we tax it up to $120,000. people are paying essentially premiums in to paying for their own social security. >> steve moore, you tell me why medicare, why your entire income is subject to medicare taxes and not social security taxes, why

not subject both to both taxes, if you want a strong social security system and a strong medicare system. >> the average person who makes over $125,000 is only going to get about $0.50 back from every dollar they paid into the system, so the rich are already getting a terrible deal out of social security. that's the answer. >> we'll leave it there. >> there are a lot of problems with social security, and even the plan that's been put out there would fund it for 50 years. the problem is bigger than taxation, regardless of the tax discussion. >> thank you, i agree with that. and next congresswoman, ilhan omar doing anything but staying quiet after an uparrroa over her anti-semitic tweet. and president trump is refusing to say whether he'll make a border deal or shut it down. ...with nutrients that support 6 vital functions... ...and one healthy you. that's the power of one a day.

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click, call, or visit a store today. tonight, fighting back, congresswoman ilhan omar under attack for anti-semitic tweets not staying quiet. omar who accuses trump of trafficking and hate her words his entire life are publicly clashing. >> reporter: president donald trump has called on her to resign after remarks many viewed as anti-semitic. and on twitter, she's accused the president of racism. but on capitol hill, freshman congresswoman ilhan omar is in no mood to talk about any of it. >> the president said that you should resign, and the vice president said you should be held accountable for your views. can you respond to that? >> no thank you. >> reporter: then asked about this wednesday tweet where she said to trump, you have traffic

and hate your whole life against jus, muslim, indigenous, black people and more. i learn from people impacted by my words, when will you. omar took strong exception. >> this morning, you said the president -- >> what is wrong with you? >> i'm asking you a question about your tweet. you had a tweet saying the president trafficked and hate. >> i tweeted, there's a response. you can run that and have a nice day. >> reporter: why can't you explain what you meant to say? >> the somali refugee as the first muslim women to serve in the house, omar has criticized the israeli government but says she respects the jewish people. and her allies argue she has been unfairly signalled out. the gop criticism over israel views are quote all about the benjamins, she was roundly condemned, even by her own leadership and later apologized saying she understands the painful history of anti-semitic.

gop leaders were not satisfied, demanding she lose committee spots, even though they have been mostly silent about trump's inflammatory racial rhetoric. trump went even further. >> i think she should resign from congress. >> reporter: the chairman of the foreign affairs committee would not say whether she should have been removed from his panel. >> i'm not commenting on anything. >> reporter: on a hearing on venezuela, omar engaged in a n contentious engage with trump special envoy, elliot abrams, who wanted a chance to respond to her criticism. >> i fail to understand why members of this committee or the american people should find any testimony that you give today to be truthful. >> if i can respond to that. >> it wasn't a question. that was not a question.

i reserve the right to my time. >> it is not right. >> that was not a question. >> erin, i had a chance to ask the house speaker, nancy pelosi if she agrees with republicans in that omar should have been removed from committee assignments, she said no, and she said the republicans do not have clean hands on any of this. she cites chants at president trump's where they said jewsa, and where were they when steve king made a series of racial comments, until last year they decided to pull him from his committee assignment. why didn't they do that sooner. >> thank you. out front, democratic senator of chris murphy, he sits on the foreign relations committee, and i appreciate your time, senators. congresswoman omar is firing back at the president today, you know, she's pointing out, he's made anti-semitic and racist comments in the past. the question is do two wrongs

make a right? >> of course they don't. and representative omar and the president and those that surround him need to understand that trading in these kind of anti-semit anti-semitic tropes does great damage to our country and is greatly offensive to those that are supporters of the u.s. israel relationship and jews here in the united states and across the world. but it's true, i mean, the president and his allies who have been, you know, going after any democrat linked to george soros, claiming that he's trying to buy the influence of members of congress or treading on dangerous ground as well. so hopefully everyone can be a little bit more attuned to the words they use in this place and we can talk a little bit more substance. >> i want to play an exchange from the house foreign affairs committee on the house side of things, but obviously, you know, a hearing important to you. congresswoman omar refusing to

give trump's venezuelan envoy, elliot abrams a chance to respond to his criticism. i want to play this clip for you. >> in 1991 you pleaded guilty to two counts of withholding information from congress regarding your involvement in the iran contra affair for which you were later pardoned by president george h.w. bush. i fail to understand why members of this committee or the american people should find any testimony that you give today to be truthful. >> if i can respond to that. >> it wasn't a question. that was not a question. that was -- i reserve the right to my time. >> senator, is that how these things are supposed to go? is that appropriate questioning? >> that's the first time i heard

that. i'd have to listen to the fuller context before i pass judgment. obviously lots of these hearings become fairly heated. listen, what i think we all, you know, have to understand is that the united states needs to tread very carefully when it comes to trying to promote regime change in south america and central america. we don't have a good history there, and there's a bad taste left over from decades of perceived american imperialism. and so i have actually written that the trump administration needs to understand that by sending elliot abrams to venezuela who does have a history that is not looked kindly upon by many in that region, that it may send a message that is unintended, so i don't know anything more than what you played about that exchange. i just know that there's a tricky business afoot in venezuela right now, as we are trying to oust a dictator without, it seems, a real

concrete plan on how to get that done. >> you, senator, you're talking about south america, you have taken a big stand on what's going on with saudi arabia, and it's been five days since the white house refused to meet a deadline to tell you all whether the white house, or what happened, are the saudi arabia crown prince responsible for the murder of jamal khashoggi. the cia and u.s. intelligence community has concluded the crown prince directed the murder. a top republican on the house foreign affairs today. >> the response that i received was completely inadequate. it was about half a page and it was not in compliance with law. >> is there anything you can do, senator, to force a response from the white house which clearly is trying to stone wall? >> the president knows that mohammed bin salmon is responsible for the killing of jamal khashoggi, and he doesn't want to certify to that. now, we don't know the reason for that. obviously the most disturbing

reason would be that the trump family has business interests, present business interests in saudi arabia that we don't know about. that's one of the reasons why we would like to see the president's tax returns. but we don't have to wait for his certification to take action. we have to a piece of legislation in the senate, a bipartisan piece of legislation, the yemen accountability account, which would set sanctions against those that ordered the khashoggi murder and reset our relationship with saudi arabia because the murder is not the only bad thing they're doing, the yemen civil war at the top of that list. we can't got over there and hold his hand while he writes the certification to us, but we can take our own action. >> i want to ask you about the breaking news, and that of course is paul manafort, the judge ruling that he intentionally lied to the fbi, to the special counsel, to the grand jury, this obviously was president trump's campaign chairman. how big of a threat could this be for the president?

the judge is ruling he intentionally lied after agreeing to cooperate. >> i guess the question is why was he lying? what was he trying to protect, and were there others that were cooperating with the government that were lying as well? and that's why many of us are really eager to see a report from the special investigator. i have been amongst those who have said that while i don't want mueller to shut down his investigation, he's locking people up and should continue to lock bad guys up. at some point he has to show congress his cards and this new finding that manafort was lying intenti intentionally to him, raising more questions about what they were all trying to hide. i would like to see some report from the special investigator as soon as possible. so we can take action on it if it's necessary. >> senator murphy, thank you so much. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, erin. and next, another government shut down could be just two days away. why won't the president commit to signing a deal? it's a done deal at least with

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him far less than what he wanted for his wall. >> well, we haven't gotten it get. we'll be getting it. we'll be looking for land mines because you could have that, you know, it's been known to happen before to people. >> the biggest land mine when it comes to this compromise happens to be the president himself because obviously he blew up the last deal at the last minute, there had be been a deal, bipartisan, now the president's allies, making him cover to slam the deal, to knock it down. mark meadows, staunch trump ally, of course, says the house freedom caucus wants a one week continuing resolution so they can try to get a better deal which is sort of outrageous because the government closed down for 34 days, and now one week is going to make a difference. give me a break. tim ryan, appreciate your time congressman, the president's biggest allies in congress, the freedom caucus, i mentioned mark meadows there, they want another

week. what's another week going to do? >> probably not a whole lot. i mean, i think we're in the same position and as the country's watching this, it's, you know, democrats and republicans in congress making a deal. obviously people who have different philosophies on how to govern, coming together for some agreement, and then the president waiting to see what the extreme right wing talk radio circuit, rush limbaugh, laura ingram, and others have to say about it, and then he follows their lead, so i get a little bit worried about that. but one week's not going to make much of a difference because those basic structures are all still going to be in place. >> speaking of structures, all of this is about a structure, president trump said today that no matter what's in this bill, and i guess the more operative thing would be what is not in this bill which is explicit wall funding, not very much of it, 1.3 billion. okay, so what, i'm going to build my wall, a wall his own administration by the way said would cost $25 billion for an explicit wall. here's what he said today,

though, congressman. >> we're building as we speak in the most desperately needed areas and it's a big wall. it's a strong wall. it's a wall that people aren't going through very easy. going to have to be in extremely good shape to get over this one. they would be able to climb mount everest a lot easier, i think. >> okay. mount everest, let's talk about where he is serious though, here, he's trying to say i'm getting my wall, i'm getting my wall, obviously the deal here does not give him the money for the wall. is he serious, he's still going to get the big whole thing, the full wall? >> well, at first and foremost, you know, you can't have a wall from sea to shining sea because you have the rio grande river. you have areas that don't necessarily need a wall. you have a lot of farmers and ranchers in the southern parts of the southern states right on

the border who really don't want the federal government coming in and eminent domaining their property, and i think there are republican senators and members of congress who represent those areas are not for the wall for that very reason, so he's not going to get a wall from sea to shining sea. many of us are saying, look, if the experts are saying we need a barrier in this part or that part, fine, let's do it. the reality of it is 90% of the drugs are coming in through the legal ports of entry and that's where we need investment. most people who are here are undocumented have overstayed their visas, 50 to 75% of the people that are here like that. so what are we doing where the real issues are: fentanyl getting laced into heroin n places like ohio where people are dying all the time, that's coming in through the united states postal service and this guy is caught up on a border wall that he's obsessed with, and you hear him talk about it. for most people, it's like, yeah

we need border security, but it's not 1,500, you know, we like planes too, but with e donws wsh -- but we don't want to ride in the ones that orville wright was putting together. >> i want to ask you about something else. it's a big field, 2020 race for the white house. you have said you're considering a run, jumping into that field. when are you going to decide? >> i don't feel any pressure for any time line at this point, but i am seriously considering it. the country is divided. we can't get anything done because of these huge divisions that we have, and people in communities like the ones i represent, erin, are suffering because of this division. you can't win the future divided. you know, a divided country is a weak country, and i'm concerned about that. i don't feel any pressure to make any particular announcement anytime soon, but it is something i'm really worried about. i mean, the debate you had a few minutes ago about the economy

where you have 400 people in the country who have more wealth than the bottom 150 million. you know, workers want cut in on the deal here, and they haven't been for 30 years. so it's something i'm considering. >> all right. i'm sure robert reich wishes he had that statistic. pretty powerful. thank you very much. >> thank you. roger stone facing a gag order, but he won't stop talking gl . >> my name is roger stone. michelle obama reveals what her mom really thinks of her success. to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth.

♪ ♪

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there's so much to take advantage of. from scheduling appointments to finding specialists, it's easier to get the care you need when you need it. with retirement planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. tonight roger stone defiant in the face of a gag order threat by a federal judge. stone is not being quiet. on tv holding a speaking event today marketing stones, rocks. sarah murray is out front. my name is roger stone. perhaps you've heard of me. >> reporter: it's rule number 81 in stone's rules. admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack. and that's exactly what roger stone is doing. >> 29 armed fbi agents, 17

vehicles, all unnecessary expenditure paid for by the taxpayers for the theater of it, to create a public image of me as guilty before i get an opportunity to prove i'm innocent. >> reporter: in the face of a warning from a federal judge that she may put a gag order on his case, stone has been delivering speeches, doing interviews and signing books. stone, president trump's long time political adviser was arrested in a predawn raid. >> we love you, roger. >> reporter: he pleaded not guilty last month to seven charges of obstruction, making false statements, and witness tampering. after the judge was considering a gag order, stone's lawyers pushed back in a filing suggesting not that many americans are paying attention to him writing on instagram kim kardashian has 126 million followers. roger stone's instagram following amounts to 39,000 subscribers. stone, meanwhile, passed his time criticizing judge jackson

claiming he can't get a fair trial in d.c. and pedaling conspiracy theories. stone wrote, i will continue to defend myself unless an obama-appointed judge decides to suspend my first-amendment rights. he claimed fair trial in d.c. impossible. >> i feel pretty good. i mean, you know, i spend my time raising money. >> reporter: stone and his wife launched a fun raising blitz for stone's legal defense hawking t-shirts and signed roger stones. she blasted out a fund-raising e-mail seeking donations and claiming the fbi used police state tactics and engaged in a brutal assault on a u.s. citizen by arresting her husband in a predawn raid. stone's very public protests may be a dubious legal strategy. today he dodged a question about whether he's openly angling for a presidential pardon. >> i did not have a discussion about a pardon with anybody including the president nor have my lawyers. >> reporter: and patted himself on the back for his

self-restraint. >> the judge is considering a gag order. i have avoided talking about the case itself other than it is decontextualized. >> reporter: the government does want a gag order on roger stone. what makes this case even more bizarre is the judge has weighed in and said jerome corsi, the conspiracy theorist who is now a witness or perhaps even another target of this investigation is allowed to weigh in on the gag order. he wants to see roger stone getting a gag order. >> interesting. interesting the comment isn't that it's untrue, it's decontextualized. an interesting comment in and of itself. thank you. next, michelle obama getting a reality check from her mother. this is not a bed.

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here's jeanne. >> reporter: you know how everyone's always making fun of mom texts? >> what do you think a unicorn sounds like? >> reporter: from the mom who can't stop sevening animojists to -- >> i got a text, you're amazing auto texted to you've adopted. >> reporter: even former first ladies can't resist. while on her book tour michelle obama fondly recounsell erecoung her surprise appearance on the grammys. on instagram mrs. obama described it as when your mom doesn't think you're a real celebrity. >> marianne robinson says, i

guess you were a hit at the grammys. >> reporter: to which michelle says, did you watch it? >> i saw it because gracie, her sister, called me. did you meet any real stars? i say, i told you i was going to be on it. mom said, no, you didn't. i would have remembered that even though i don't remember much. >> reporter: the former first lady responds with laughing emojis. >> i thought i told you, and i am a real star, by the way. to which my mom says, yeah. i have to tell her, mom, do you realize i am michelle obama? >> reporter: and marianne robinson, the former first lady's 81-year-old mom, is every mom. you know what's even sweeter than getting a text from your mom, when she's sitting next to you being interviewed and gayle king asks -- >> what's the best thing about michelle obama that makes you

proudest? >> when i grow up i would like to be like michelle obama. ♪ to you mrs. robinson >> reporter: jeanne moose,, cnn new york. >> and anderson starts now. good evening. we begin with breaking news. a federal judge late today ruling paul manafort, president trump's former campaign chairman, lied to the fbi lied to a grand jury, lied to robert mueller's investigators, lied, intentionally, on multiple occasions, lied about contact with russians. he's supposed to be a cooperating witness. as you might imagine, as we so often find ourselves saying, this is a big development. cnn's evan perez joins us with the latest. walk us through exactly what was and what was not in this ruling. >> reporter: anderson, prosecutors from the special counsel's office accused manafort of lying on five different