>> brian, is it clear to you that anybody in the democratic party at this point knows how to run against president trump? >> i think they're going to have plenty of time to figure that out, anderson. i think this primary is going to be a good and healthy thing. as we sit here tonight, all of us -- none of us here could predict who might emerge as the nominee, and i think that's going to be a healthy and enlivening thing. in 2016, there was a sense of inevitability of hillary as the nominee, and i think overall that was not to the good. it sucked a lot of drama and intrigue out of the primary process and people looked for that melodrama in other places, in things like faux e-mail scandals in my opinion. this time around we're going to have an enlivened debate about policy. people are actually talking about policy. elizabeth warren has a child care proposal coming out tomorrow, and i feel like the energy throughout is pretty high. you saw lines around the block in new hampshire for kamala harris today. so i think that the candidates rightfully right now are not focused on trump out of the gate. they need to define and differentiate themselves. let's let the voters decide over

the next 12 to 18 months who they want the nominee to be. there will be plenty of time to do battle against donald trump by the time we get to the fall. >> symone, do you agree with that? there were how many republican challengers to donald trump, all who thought they knew how to run against him, and they all failed. it's not clear to me that anybody since then has figured out what the achilles' heel is or how to go about -- i mean ultimately it's going to come down to beating donald trump. >> yeah. but i mean you have to win the democratic presidential primary first. look, i do agree with brian that folks have time to figure out how to -- what's the best strategy, if you will, to combat donald trump in a race. but i think what we know -- what i think we know across the board is that you can't fight donald trump down in the gutter because in my opinion, nobody is dirtier than him. he is willing to go lower than anybody has ever -- lower than anybody thought you could go. so because of that, you always have to elevate the conversation when dealing with him.

and i think there have been a number of instances, most prominently, the dna debacle, if you will, with senator elizabeth warren, where you have to elevate the conversation because if you try to fight donald trump where he is, you won't win. so i think that's something many candidates and potential candidates have learn and have seen. and i think that will be a telling thing that they'll expand upon going forward. >> kirsten, you heard the argument the democratic party can't afford to go too far left. it alienates the moderates. if they go too far to the center, it alienates the liberals. who do you see best poised right now? >> well, i think that's just a debate that's being figured out. you know, there's no way for us to know this at this point. i think a lot of things people are calling too far to the left, the republicans call too far to the left, actually are things that have support of a lot of americans. so, you know, i think we'll just have to see what voters want. >> all right. brian fallon, kirsten powers, symone sanders, thanks very much.

the news continues. i want to hand it over to "cnn tonight." dave. ♪ here's your order. applebee's to go. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. when it comes to reducing the evsugar in your family's diet,m. coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org you won't find relief here. congestion and pressure? go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure.

claritin-d relieves more. dealing with your insurance shouldn't be more frustrating than the accident itself. that's why esurance makes it simple. just take some pics. [picture noises] go to sleep. wake up. grab a bite. maybe some racquetball. and boom - your money's on the way so you can get back on the road fast. well, not that fast. the editor had to make it fit in 30 seconds. it's pretty tricky actually trying to ... and ... tagline. when insurance is simple, it's surprisingly painless.

when insurance is simple, all of you. how you live, what you love. that's what inspired us to create america's most advanced internet. internet that puts you in charge. that protects what's important. it handles everything, and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome.

xfinity, the future of awesome. this is "cnn tonight." i'm dana bash. you heard from presidential candidate amy klobuchar in cnn's town hall. the senior senator from minnesota, the first female senator from the state answering questions from the audience. for well over an hour. i want to dig in right away on the case she made tonight and go straight to new hampshire. mark preston is there. marks, what a fascinating town hall for a number of reasons, first and foremost because unlike a lot of her democratic competitors in the presidential field, she really sort of hewed

more toward the middle, but certainly didn't bank left, even when she knew that would potentially benefit her with democratic voters. what were your impressions? >> no question, dana. she cleared her own path right now through this forest that we see in front of us. and as all these democrats, upwards to practically 20 democrats looking for running for president, amy klobuchar this evening maybe very, very clear what path she's going follow. she is going to follow a more pragmatic path. when asked about the green new deal, something that she said she supports, but again, couldn't go in for all aspects of it knowing full well that it's aspirational. like she had called it before and she had to backtrack. same thing for college tuition. we're on a college campus right now. college debt is saddling so many kids right now, but she would not go out and say she think there's should be free education for all. that should be left for folks who really, really need it. also, dana, in addition to that, we also had her talk about the

whole idea, talking about medicare for all. the whole idea about health care. she wouldn't go down that road. she said that she wants to get something done now. again, a totally different path than what we're seeing from several of the other democrats. certainly those front-runners who are looking for the democratic nomination, dana. >> and mark, as you're speaking, you're watching senator klobuchar work the crowd, talk to potential voters. she's obviously not just speaking there, she's campaigning in the first in the nation primary state. also here with me in new york is cnn contributor frank bruni. mark was just talking about the medicare for all answer, and that was one of the things that really struck me about the most as i mentioned to mark an area where she is different from a lot of her competitors. watch the interaction on that. >> what's been going on in this country is just wrong. you've got people that still can't afford their health care. you have people that can't afford their prescription drugs,

and that's why i believe we have to get to universal health care in this country. and we have to -- [ applause ] -- make sure that we build on the work of the affordable care act, which by the way was a major improvement. >> what's your reservation about supporting medicare for all? >> well, i think it's something we can look to for the future, but i want to get action now, and i think the best way we do that is something we actually wanted to do back when we were looking at the affordable care act and we were stopped was trying to get a public option in there. and that is a way, if you all remember that debate, that is a way to provide a public alternative that's real even beyond the exchanges so we can bring down the rates. and then we can look at other options, but we have to start somewhere. and i think we can do that immediately. >> so no medicare for all. >> it could be a possibility in the future. i'm just looking at something that will work now. >> what was your impression of, that frank?

>> it's interesting. a possibility in the future. she's not shutting it down. she doesn't want to inflame the left. she is saying i share your values and maybe i share your long-term goals, but i want to talk about the here and now. she did the same thing with the green new deal. they're not going happen at that timetable. i think she radiated practicality. mark used the word pragmatic. i kept on thinking as i was listening to her in terms of her style, in terms of her specifics, it was practical, practical, practical. i think she is drawing a contrast with those candidates that seem much more ideological. she saying if i'm going have a place in think crowded primary, it's going to be the commonsensical practical candidate who is not talking about pie-in-the-sky but is towning about what i can do for you in the next four years. >> mark preston, one of the things at the end that really struck us and i think we're going hear a lot more about her uncle dick, her uncle dick who was talking about the deer shed, and this is with regard to guns and guns in america.

she was very clear about the outrage over massacres, the one recently in aurora, and of course last year in parkland, but also was more practical for people who she knows and members of her family in the midwest where she's from in minnesota and other places who still want to keep some of their guns. and obviously, one of those is her uncle dick. >> well, and also was very important where she said it. she said it here in the state of new hampshire where the ownership of legal guns is very, very high. >> absolutely. >> but, again, these are folks who use them primarily for hunting purposes. and that's the culture she grew up in. in fact, when she came on the stage tonight, she made a point to say i'm from the north county, very similar to here in new hampshire to try to bring the kinship in. you know, what was interesting when we tie all these threads together. frank says practicality. i use pragmatic, it all kind of comes to the same place.

she said one thing tonight that was not very popular, but encapsulated everything that she was getting at tonight, and that's when we were talking about college education, and free college education. and don said to her, hey, look, we're on a college campus. it's not very popular. she said i know, but i've got tell the truth. it's not something we've heard from any of the candidates right now who are looking at running. they're talking aspirational. she is talking more practical, more pragmatic. >> and i should say it was deer stand, not deer shed. if i can read my own handwriting, it would be a lot better. don lemon, i think you're with us now. great job tonight. thank you so much. >> i am. hi, dan. that thank you very much. >> and i'm keeping your chair warm. what was your impression? >> i thought -- i thought she did very well. i thought she was great. she is warm. she is personable. but guess what? she is real. she is a truth teller. and i think from being here in new hampshire, that's what people like about her is that she is not fighting for the far left wing of the party.

and so she is someone who is a liberal but also moderate on certain issues and i don't think will take the party to the socialist side. that is my impression of it. but just for the way she did about tonight, i thought she did a fantastic job. she answered every single question directly, and if she didn't, i had a response to make sure she answered. one or two times i had to make sure she got back on track, but she did. when the young man said hey, what about free college? she said no, i'm not for four-year free college. to have the nerve to say that on a four-year college campus really takes some gumption to be able to do that. >> and don, one of the many sort of memorable moments of the night there that you had with senator klobuchar was when she was asked about her management style, which is code for the fact that there have been reports about the fact that she doesn't treat her staff well, that she is tough on her staff. let's listen.

>> first of all you have to know i love my staff. a number of them from the campaign are here right now. i've had the same people have worked for me for years. my chief of staff has worked for me for six years, my state director for seven years, my campaign manager for 14 years. so you need to know that that's my management. am i a tough boss sometimes? yes. have i pushed people too hard? yes. but have i except expectations for myself that are very high. i've asked my staff to meet those same expectations, and that the big point for me is i want the country to meet high expectations. we don't have that going now. >> she was obviously ready for that question. >> yes. >> and was very clear and deliberate in how she was going give the answer. >> she hasn't shied away from that question. as a matter of fact, she talks about it. she is willing to talk about it. she is willing to expand upon

it. that's one of the questions people ask a lot. we've been hearing about it. maybe some people want to call it a salacious question, but it's definitely the intriguing question that people wanted us to ask tonight or wanted to ask her tonight because this was a town hall about the people who were in the audience. so they asked the question. she answered it. i followed up with her. she said i had high expectations, and sometimes i'm maybe a little too hard on people. and so i followed up with that, and she talked about her high expectations and how those high expectations got her to the point where she is now. and she is hoping it will eventually get her to point where she is president of the united states. and then she answered head-on hey, listen, maybe i was a little too tough sometimes, but i'm learning. nobody's perfect. so she was not afraid of that question, really not afraid of any question here at this town hall. >> and frank bruni, at a time when democrats out there are so hungry for a fighter, you know, they're hungry for somebody who is maybe practical and maybe can get things done, but also

somebody who is not going to shy away from anything or anybody that might not be the worst thing in the world to be asked that over and over again. >> no, it's not. the question is going to keep coming back. she'll have to answer it again. and i think if she gets deep into the primaries and has some success, she ticked off prior places of employment. you and i both know journalists are going to go there and see if the stories exist there that came from her senate staff and some of the pieces that have been out already. but yes, to the extent she can say heim i'm tough, i have high standards, i fight, i think that's good as long as she can remain as upbeat as she was tonight. i thought the word practical in my head tonight. she was so upbeat from beginning to end, except when she got somber in personal moments like when she answered the question by the woman who had been widowed by the opioid crisis. i think people love a warrior. i think she came across as a happy warrior tonight. >> and mark preston, let me get back to you. >> dana, if i could jump in.

>> of course, don. two things. let me tell you about that. people here in this audience, they wanted someone strong. i think some of the questions we got is we want to know if she's strong enough to take on donald trump, because they don't want him to be president again, and they would rather someone like her be president. and i think within that, they got that answer. maybe sometimes i am too tough, but i'm definitely not too tough to take on the president of the united states, the man who is currently the president of the united states. so i think that within that question about being tough on her staff and all of that, i think that, you know, she played it well, and there is some truth to having the courage and having the strength to be able to stand up to donald trump, especially when it comes to doing a debate, right, if she ever gets on the debate stage with him to be able to debate him. and once they get closer to an election. >> and mark preston, we've been talking about her not going --

pandering, frankly, as much to the people on the left of her party, as others have, whether it's their ideology or it's the way that they think that the democratic party has gone and therefore they should go that way in order to get the democratic nomination. she didn't do that. maybe in a place like new hampshire where there are certain liberals, but it's an open primary. it's not such a bad thing. but it might actually hurt her in other places where the electorate really is even more progressive than we've seen in the past. >> you're looking at iowa, for example, which is right next door. and it's the state that she thinks that she has to do very well in. i think we think she has to do well in. she is playing the whole midwestern card, the hard values, the immigrant farmer, the i'm not afraid to get a callous on my hand or perhaps give a sharp word, if that's

what it's going to take to get the job done. but having said that as well, i do think that she does talk in a way that is able to not necessarily inflame the left. it doesn't necessarily bring them to her side, but it doesn't necessarily inflame the left. and i have to tell you, just anecdotally, two people reached out to me that were watching this tonight, proactively. i didn't ask for their opinion. they both tend to be a little more on the conservative side, and they both sent texts to me that said klobuchar for president. one of them spelled her name wrong, but it just shows you that people don't understand who she, but who she is right now. >> it's a long name, mark. >> and when we talk, i think of us being on yeah, really, just think of it this way, dana. as we're talking about the next two years, we're on a super highway right now, and we have a lot of people over in the left lane, all vying to get out front. there is going to be car crash at one point and one of them is going to get out. guess what? amy klobuchar and a few others

are going to be a little over to the right there. is going to be less competition. amy klobuchar hopes she can get out of that pack. >> and for the record, people from new england like mike preston might know how to spell her name, but they say it a little different than they do in minnesota. >> klobuchar. >> it's klobuchar, klobuchar. >> exactly. final thought? >> my final thought is klobuchar, not klobuchar. i think there are members of it that actually pronounce it klobuchar. but listen, i got a deep immersion lesson into how to say her name. my final thoughts. i think mark preston is right. i think there are a lot of people in the democratic party that are fighting for the left progressive lane of that party, and i think she is in a position, she has positioned herself to be the person who can maybe come right through the middle, right, and actually be a dark horse in this election. >> all right, everybody, thank you. >> she is still here, by the way, dana. >> i'm sure.

>> this is like a mini town hall if you can see that going on, and she is answering questions. listen, she has been out on the campaign trail all day. i said you must be exhausted. she said no, i'm energized by all this, and i'm so glad to see all the folks out here in their sweaters. it's cold and it snowed today. so there you go. >> don lemon, thank you. our team as always hit it out of the park. appreciate it, everybody there. everybody stay with us, because we have breaking news. a doj official tells cnn that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is expected to leave the justice department in mid-march. we'll talk about that next. was ahead of its time. still, we never stopped making it stronger. faster. smarter. because to be the best, is to never ever stop making it better. the new 2019 c-class family. lease the c 300 sport sedan for $429 a month

at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again!

yeah, i thought doing some hibachi grilling would help take my mind off it all. maybe you could relieve some stress by calling geico for help with our homeowners insurance. geico helps with homeowners insurance? they sure do. and they could save us a bundle of money too. i'm calling geico right now. cell phone? it's ringing. get to know geico and see how much you could save on homeowners and condo insurance.

our breaking news tonight. a doj official tells cnn that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is expected to leave the justice department in mid-march. to be clear-w a new attorney general william barr now in place it's pretty standard for an a.g. to pick his or her own deputy.

what is not standard, however, is for any deputy attorney general to basically be a household name, caught up in some of the most explosive and tumultuous events of the trump presidency to date. and rosenstein's departure will come just as former acting fbi director andrew mccabe is out with a new book where he claims that rosenstein offered to wear a wire while meeting with the president and several other things. joining me to discuss that is phil mudd and jack quinn. thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining me this evening. jack, let me start with you. "60 minutes" last night andrew mccabe made some pretty stunning revelations. i want you to listen to mccabe on rosenstein talking about what it was like just after president trump fired james comey. >> deputy attorney general offered to wear a wire into the white house. he said i never get searched when i go into the white house, i could easily wear a recording device, they wouldn't know it was there. now, he was not joking.

he was absolutely serious. and in fact, he brought it up in the next meeting we had. >> now, mccabe also claims that rosenstein brought up the idea of invoking the 25th amendment to remove the president from office. jack quinn, what is your reaction as a former white house counsel listening to mccabe talk about the way rosenstein behaved in those days? >> it's pretty frightening. it gives you a sense of just how concerned these senior-level officials were about what was going on in our government. let's put this in context. at this point the president of the united states had gone through an election in which there were concerns about russia having interfered. the intelligence community in our country was unanimous in the conclusion that russia had malign intentions toward us and in fact did interfere in the election. the president chose to ignore

that, in fact deny it. given the choice between standing with american intelligence officials and vladimir putin, he chose putin. he fired the head of the fbi, james comey, and then proceeded into the oval office and literally yucked it up with the russian foreign minister and ambassador. i mean, it was an embarrassment to the country. putting myself -- i can't possibly put myself in their shoes but i'm certain had i been in their shoes or been in the room with them i would have been enormously alarmed about what was going on, about what the president was doing. now, i will also say that neither of them really have read the 25th amendment because it was not something that could be invoked in that -- in the circumstances. and it's certainly implausible given that it would require

almost unanimity -- well, a majority of the cabinet and the vice president. it was sort of a crazy thought. >> and it's sort of unclear if it got that far. but on that note, phil mudd, rosenstein at the justice department, they released a statement, very carefully worded statement on that saying the following. "the deputy attorney general again rejects mr. mccabe's recitation of events as inaccurate and factually incorrect. the deputy attorney general never authorized any reporting that mr. mccabe references." that's just one. let's just start there, phil mudd. that's not a denial. didn't authorize. and also said he didn't -- on the 25th amendment didn't see that it was necessary and again didn't authorize it. didn't say i didn't talk about it. >> i'm with jack. this makes me uncomfortable but for different reasons. look, when you're in tough situations in washington, d.c., i served at the cia and the fbi, the hotter it gets in the kitchen the cooler the cook better be. during the comey investigation the fbi investigation of hillary

clinton, the inspector general at the fbi said bluntly, comey mishandled that, he got hot in a hot kitchen. i watched that conversation about wires and the 25th amendment. whether or not anything was authorized, and that's obviously the language you just spoke about from the deputy attorney general, the question is beyond coming back from the oval office and memorializing a conversation in a memo, which i think is perfectly appropriate, a conversation about secretly wiretapping the president with a wire from the deputy attorney general or finding people who support the 25th amendment in the cabinet i thought was over the top. it sounds to me like people again, like the comey investigation, when things got hot they stayed hot. you can't run an organization like that in difficult times. >> and jack, let's just talk about andrew mccabe's credibility. the white house responded to his claim saying he has no credibility. the justice department inspector general did find that mccabe lied. so do they have a point? maybe he doesn't have total credibility here. that maybe he shouldn't be believed.

>> i don't know if the two things -- if one follows the other, dana. and look, i'm not trying to defend him in terms of the beef the inspector general has with him. clearly a conclusion was arrived at by the inspector general, himself an honoring person who said that on three separate occasions andrew mccabe misled people in the inspector general's office. that is a serious accusation and one that can't be just brushed aside lightly. but again, i think the context is terribly important here. andrew mccabe is out of a job. he's gone. he's not in the government anymore. rosenstein is leaving. but remember -- and again, the context. these guys were concerned that the president of the united states might be for one reason or another under the influence of not just a foreign power but

a malign foreign power. one who was our enemy. and that must have just really set off alarm bells. and i can think in those circumstances that did they overreact to -- there's no evidence they overreacted. but were they obviously awfully concerned? sure, they were. and i think all of us should be concerned. particularly given what we now know about activities were going on during this time period, about the trumps building a tower in moscow. we now have roger stone under indictment beginning to bring wikileaks and russia closer together with the trump campaign. these things were setting off alarm bells then and they're only now beginning to set off similar alarm bells -- >> you don't think they overreacted, but phil mudd, you think they did. >> i think it was appropriate for them to look at the

situation and say if we see facts, for example, a conversation with the president where he's talking about replacing the fbi director because of the russian investigation, those facts should be memorialized in a document. that's what jim comey did at that time, perfectly appropriate. but then taking that a step forward and saying what do we think about the 25th amendment and what's the fbi's role in potentially looking at cabinet members who might support putting in place the 25th amendment, i think that's out of line. if that happened, it should not have. >> jack quinn, phil mudd, thank you so much for joining me this evening. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and with a record number of women running for office and winning, are we at a tipping point for women in politics, or are women still facing a different litmus test on the trail than their male opponents? stay with us.

♪ ♪ t-mobile will do the math for you. join t-mobile and get two phones plus two unlimited plans for just one hundred bucks a month.

whei just put in the namey, of my parents and my grandparents. and as soon as i did that, literally it was like you're getting 7, 9, 10, 15 leaves that are just popping up all over the place. yeah, it was amazing. just with a little bit of information, you can take leaps and bounds. it's an awesome experience. with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. so even when she grows up, she'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only with expedia.

select hotels to your existing trip. itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety.

the democratic presidential field is far from complete, but as of now there is a big theme amid the candidates. women. senator amy klobuchar was asked at tonight's town hall about the changes female candidates face. >> knowing the misogynist history of our country and the previous smear attacks against women candidates, what is your plan to break through the systematic anti-feminist comments or attacks when the bar has been set so high for women and set so very low for male candidates? >> that is called -- [ applause ] >> good question, huh? >> that is called a loaded

question. someone once said, and i agree with part of this but not all of it, that women candidates should speak softly and carry a big statistic. okay. so i think you know i don't always speak softly. it's been established. but i think what you find in a lot of these women and they've had to prove themselves in different ways. they have to carry a big statistic, which means be accountable and show what they're doing. >> joining me now, two women who know what it's like to run for office. former democratic michigan governor jennifer granholm and former gop congresswoman claudia tenney of new york. thank you, both of you, for joining me at this hour. governor granholm, i want you to look at this list. senator klobuchar, as i mentioned, is among a record number of women running for president. you were the first female attorney general, first female governor of michigan. back then there were fewer women running for office. what kind of challenges will these women -- or are they already facing that the men just don't?

>> well, i mean, they face challenges. there is no doubt. all you have to do is look at their twitter feeds to know that there is still rampant sexism out there. but here's the thing. i so love amy klobuchar's response to this, that women should speak softly and carry a big statistic although she doesn't speak softly. i think we're just in a whole new realm. i'm so excited that these young women who have run for congress and have won, they are fearless. they are not allowing the sexist tropes that are appearing in their social media, you know, to define them. they're not victims. they are fierce warriors. and that's the thing that i love. they call them out and they move on. and they're going to get stuff done. so to me, unlike when i ran, when i ran, first of all, you certainly wouldn't talk about it. but you also -- >> you didn't talk about the fact you were a woman? >> no. well, i mean, because you could kind of see it. but you didn't talk about your

family. you were told don't bring your kids out because they're all going to be worried about whether you can hold this office and take care of your family. so i'm so glad that times have changed. >> gosh. that's amazing. i'm sorry, that was explicit, like don't bring your kids out on stage because it's going to remind them that you're a woman? >> i would say especially for me, because i -- when i ran for attorney general -- now, i happen to be married to a saint. my husband was willing to take the family lane. but my youngest, when i ran for attorney general, was only 10 months old. so everybody was saying oh, please, do not, you know, do not emphasize them, don't put them in your literature. of course you don't hide it if you're asked about it. and you know, they showed up at parades. only so often, though, because there's only so many times you can take kids on parades. but bottom line is it wasn't something you would emphasize like a man would do, to hold them up. but i do think times are different. amy klobuchar had her daughter there today and she used the

story of her birth to further the notion of compassion. so i'm so glad that those days are over. >> and congresswoman tenney, we talked about senator klobuchar being asked tonight about reports she's too tough on her staff. you don't really hear these kinds of stories about men. it's not that they don't exist. you've served. you probably watched men and women and how they interacted with their staff. why do you think we tend to hear this about women and not men? >> i do think there still is a double standard although as a woman running in upstate new york i had to fight against, you know, a culture that was a little different than maybe in the cities. but i did find even in -- and i think the governor and i are from the same generation. it's a lot different now than it was then. it was a lot more difficult. i was a partner in my law firm and it was difficult. i mean, i remember my first partnership meeting i got a memo on my desk that said, "meeting. noon. all the men.

conference room." and i was like, does that mean me too? so it is challenging. and look, we have to be tough. and often women are looked at negatively because they're strong and they're tough. and i've had to fight against a lot of obstacles in upstate new york and -- >> how so? >> -- as the first woman to hold the seat. first of all, i had to fight against my own party as a republican. i was never endorsed by the republican party until 2018. the only time ever. so i served three terms in the state assembly and i also served in congress. so i had to, you know, fight to win those against men as with the. but i don't like to focus so much on that. i do think that sometimes it's unfair. but i also served in the state assembly which i thought was a lot more sexist, to be honest with you, than even congress. i think there was a different level of leadership in congress for sure. but i think women are -- women are really setting a new stage now. it's not that it's easier. you always have to struggle.

politics is very difficult. it's a very tough arena. there's a lot of bullying, whether you're a woman or a man. there's a lot going on. there's a lot of difficult campaigning and a lot of difficult issues. and i think women need to be tougher. i think that's part of the formula. i would never subscribe to victimhood. and that's one thing my dad and my mom would always emphasize, be who you are, be strong, and don't feel sorry for yourself. just keep fighting. >> such a fascinating conversation. >> can i -- >> we're going to take a quick break. >> okay. sure. >> and we're going to get to whatever you're going to say on the other side. how's that for a tease? >> okay. >> you want no know what jennifer granholm is going to say and the congresswoman? stay with us. >> really good. ream with butter-poached, creamy and roasted lobster. or new crispy, coconutty lobster in paradise. new ultimate lobsterfest surf & turf is here too. it's time to lobsterfest, so hurry in.

(vo) only verizon was ranked #1 by rootmetrics... #1 in 3 opensignal mobile experience awards... #1 in video streaming according to nielsen... ...and #1 in network quality according to j.d. power. and that's why the only network to win in all four major awards is the one more people rely on. choose america's most reliable network and get it on the best device: iphone. get iphone xr on us when you buy the latest iphone and apple music on us too.

we're back with former michigan governor and new york congresswoman. and governor jennifer granholm you have the floor. >> you said you raised the issue about klobuchar and the treatment of staff. her answer was really good. it's not something that often men are called onto respond to. so donald trump had 86% staff turn over. nobody has -- we are talking about that. but it's not about his being tough. when she's asked about her toughness and she says i'll be tough and hold high standards for america, i think that is something unusual for a woman who is running for office. it will end up if she can continue to answer that in a way where her staff supports her, like i gist got off the phone

with a former student who was a staffer of hers says she has grit and made us better. she was demanding but made us better. a quick story. about ann richards former governor of texas. i had all men in the house and senate. and the supreme court and attorney general. she said in her great accent, she had her white hair and pearls and said, jennifer, are those all boys giving you the blues? it's terrible. she said when they do that, just sit up and smile and give them the finger. >> did you do that? >> well, yes in my own way. >> okay. good advice. >> congresswoman, there was a story that struck the team here. entitled the end of shame. residing in shame isn't a thing anymore. hanging on for deal life and hoping everyone will forget about the scandal is the new

thing. we have seen this on both sides of the aisle. former colleagues steve king. jim jordan the list goes on and on. why are these people still in office? does it strike you for the most part we're talking about guys? >> i'll say something that will surprise you. as a lawyer. i think that everybody is entitled to due process. there's often a lot of mud being slung in politics. against a lot of people. we don't have all the facts, some look terrible. until somebody has really been convicted especially -- a great example. i was a member of the new york state assembly. silver. it was revealed he used taxpayer money to cover ul sexual assault harassment claims. i called for his resignation and everybody was whorrified.

as speaker. a role as we members have an opportunity to call for. he didn't get convicted of a crime and he didn't need to step down. eventually he was moved to his role as just a member. i think we have to be very careful in using these things as a club. some things are really bad behavior. great example. our attorney general jsnyderman. i rarely call for a resignation. there was so much in the situation. and so much in terms of sexual harassment nature and abuse of power for someone who is serving as attorney general. and top law enforcement. so there are some cases where i think we could rush to judgment, there are oftentimes the cases don't turn out to be true. i think you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. in a country like ours. and we are also a country of inperfect people when run for office. and stips people are accused of

things that aren't true. >> it's a change for good? >> what's your view? >> i think -- i think it's the governor is he's saying he'll do a tour of a highlighting and using his role. to be honest it's probably politics. virginia is a one term governor state. he's probably figures where else am i going? i'm staying in the position. that is a decision he has to make and the voters have to make. the voters don't get to weigh in again. he didn't commit a crime. he has bad behavior. sometimes there's -- it's just there's a narrow interpretation. we need to be a little more subjective and deal with each case by case basis. >> governor. >> here's what i say. i think in a will the of sexual harassment cases. there was a article that tallied

30 state legislative cases from 2017. of the 30, 29 back to the issue of men and women. 29 were men. a lot realitied to sexual harassment. they stepped doin. one woman the may your of tennessee. she stepped down. when they people feel a sense of shame, that is em impels them to step down and make amends. i hate the word shame. it's my catholic background. it remind me of sin and hell. there's a moment for sin and shame. but also reconciliation. and forgiveness. the question is do you do that forgiveness inside of office or outside. those are questions we'll grapple with through 2020. >> jennifer granholm, congresswoman. thank you so much. great conversation. >> you bet. >> thank you for watching. our coverage continues.

made with aged melted li chedds cheddar, simmered broccoli, and no artificial flavors. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be. that's what happens in golf nothiand in life.ily. i'm very fortunate i can lean on people, and that for me is what teamwork is all about. you can't do everything yourself. you need someone to guide you and help you make those tough decisions, that's morgan stanley. they're industry leaders, but the most important thing is they want to do it the right way. i'm really excited to be part of the morgan stanley team. i'm justin rose. we are morgan stanley. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper

get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again! or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection

and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. ready to treat differently with a pill? about 50% of people with evesevere asthma k? have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection

or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

challenging the president. more than a dozen states are suing to put an end to donald trumps controversial national emergency declaration. the president is accusing top justice officials of committing illegal and treasonous acts. after stunning revelations from the former acting fbi director. plus america's top commander in the middle east talks to cnn. what he's saying about u.s. troops in syria. >> welcome to our viewers in the united states. from all around the world. this is cnn "newsroom."