they allege that he's a white supremacist that wanted to kill prominent democratic lawmakers as well as journalists from cnn and msnbc. a coast guard spokesman says the arrest was made once they were confident in the strength of the evidence against him. that's it for us. the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo primetime. >> thank you, anderson. welcome to primetime. tough developments on two criminal cases gripping the nation. we now know in great detail how chicago prosecutors plan to prove that jussie smollett staged an attack against himself. they claim to have a mountain of evidence. the empire star now says he has been victimized again. this time, by police. now a lot of people are upset, especially those that initially defended smollett like fellow actor d.l. hugley. he joins us in a moment. then we have roger stone. all kinds of apologies for a federal judge in washington

today. she was having none of it. we're going to unpack that drama in cuomo's court. another ruling in a battle that drew tears and overturned a congressional election. jam packed thursday. what do you say? let's get after it. >> jussie smollett is free on bond tonight after turning himself in this morning. he's gone from famous to infamous. from victim to suspect. police and prosecutors methodically layed out the chain of events of the alleged hoax they say smollett was behind every step of the way. >> he then stated he wanted to stage an attack where able would appear to batter him. he wanted able to attack him and to give him a chance to appear to fight back. defendant smollett included he wanted ola to place a rope around his neck, pour gasoline

on him and yell this is maga country. >> now a lot of you have opinions about what is and is not true. read it. it's four pages. it's going to be on our site. just read it. read it and know what they say they have. then form an opinion. chicago's top cop was visibly upset. they were angry over what he calls a shameful attempt to fabricate a hate crime. >> jussie smollett took advantage of the pain and anger of racism to promote his career. i'm left hanging my head and asking why. why would anyone, especially an african american man, use the symbolism of a noose to make false accusations. this publicity stunt was a scar that chicago didn't earn and certainly didn't deserve. i only hope that the truth about what happened receives the same

amount of attention that the hoax did. >> tonight smollett is maintaining his innocence which could make it worse, and he has given fodder for those that say bias crimes are exaggerated. push back is that solving other crimes of this nature is not as big a priority. the whole thing is a mess. let's bring in someone that once knew the accused and stood behind him initially after the first report. actor, radio host, d.l. hugley. d.l., thank you for joining us. >> anything for you, man. >> i appreciate it. i wish we had something better to talk about. initially you tweeted that you felt for jussie smollett. you didn't like what was happening. but now, you have your own reservations and you think this is not what he said it was. >> well, i tell you what, i think that in this country we

have our ability to call b.s. when we see it. i thought the story didn't ring true initially but you want to give people the benefit of the doubt. but it got more cumbersome and more clutters and we are where we are today. the larger significance of it is they lump groups together. it's never the best of us, it's the worst of us. we're $40 million so one guy can't speak for a race that got barrack obama and flava flave. but they have a tendency to look at this and say well, see, they're black or they're gay and they falsify things and they're not telling the truth and it will make it that much harder for somebody that's a victim of a homophobic or racial attack. in the minds of some, it will lack credibility. >> he's saying this is true and

now he's a victim of police rushing to judgment. what's your advice for him? >> i think that ultimately, here's what i will say. if he has done this, he should tell the truth. if he believes he is innocent, he should fight. but we have to wait until the allegations are proven but if they are, you'll see a lot of black people that will call for accountability. a lot of black people that will say he needs to be held accountable. when you use racism and bigotry and hatred and lying for your own selfish ends, you get indicted. if you do it when you're an old white guy you become president. and there's enough monsters out there for real that we don't have to make any up. and white supremicist is at a

high. it's interesting that the president would focus more on the kid that aorchestrated a fae attack but not a white supremacist with an actual attack. so it's amazing that we're more enamored by something imaginary than something real. >> hate crimes are on the rise. a lot of people don't want to accept this. they want this to be trumped up. no pun intended. they want this to be this is political correctness run amuck and now they're going to use smollett as case number one if the police are right and reading their statement, just four pages, everybody should read it, they have a high degree of confidence that they don't believe these two african american guys beat up jussie smollett. >> i don't believe it.

>> let me tell you something. it went from maga and racial and gay slurs, it went from we assumed they were white guys, it went from white kinda to wakanda and i think at every turn, it's strained credulity but now victims are automatically given the benefit of the doubt and we have seeded our ability to call b.s. when they see it. nobody that heard that initially can tell me they didn't have some level of reservation. >> right. >> and i think much like those people, i think the political, you know, leaders who rightfully called out and said, you know, if this is true, this is a hate crime and something should be done about it, have an obligation now to say something. you can't just be quite. silence won't make it happen. you can't be a coward now. >> i agree with you on that. if you got it wrong, own it. if you don't, then you empower the criticism.

>> all you did was being a decent human being who believed someone. that's all you did. there's nothing, you know what, it's better than waiting two or three days when someone is run down in charlottesville or waiting three or four days when something happens and never saying anything about it. so i would rather heir on the side of humanity. >> these are also sometimes tricky situations to finesse. i remember when terry crews you came out and said he's too strong to be sexually assaulted. you got beat up for that yourself. what was the lesson in that. >> there wasn't a lesson in that. let's be clear. i meant what i said. i think terry expressed himself and i expressed mine. i grew up in a rough environment and when you let somebody do something to you, they kept doing it. so that was -- and i do not apologize and i don't feel bad about it. much like, you know, that was

his -- i don't think there's nothing wrong with slapping somebody if they physically hurt you. i don't think there's anything wrong -- i can't tell you what he should be done. i believe what i would have done. >> you weren't questioning what happened, but you were questioning what you would have done in the same situation. >> but here's the thing, even then, we don't all have, all of these people that are tweeting ride on terry and all, would they do that if he were assaulted by the police? i think you take a guy that size who looks just like that and he is parked in front of your house, are you that sympathetic or do you call the police? so we're going to have these conversations when we can see black people as victims, we need to see them not only when they're sexually assaulted and you like them but when they're shot and you don't know them. >> if as the police are suggesting, this is not what they said it was. >> i don't believe it wasn't

what he said it was, but one thing will happen. if it is what he said it was -- it's chicago so maybe the one armed man did it, i don't know. but we have to remember this, it was a black superintendent of a city where a lot of black people live and a lot of black men and women and a lot of gay men and women are assaulted and shot and murdered in that city all the time and how dare you take something as real as that for something like this. and it shows we can muster the resources when we want to look good. but i don't know that we do the same thing and chicago has become a whipping post for everything that is wrong in our communities. and i think, fixing chicago won't fix most black people's problems. but fixing most black people's problems will fix chicago. >> right. if this turns out to be the bad reality for jussie smollett, do you think he's done in terms of getting roles and being an actor? >> i think infamy is as good as fame in this situation.

listen, i know, this kid used to come and we used to have a christmas party every year and he was a cater's assistant and i liked the kid a lot. next thing you know, he's a big star on empire. i can't imagine what would go through his mind to make this happen, but i do imagine this, if this is true, you have harmed a lot of people. you have put people in jeopardy. and i'm not talking about -- you put police officer in jeopardy, black men and women, gay people in jeopardy and you stained a movement that was starting to gain traction and i think nothing is more selfish than that. but we live in an america right now where racial bigotry and analyst and lying can elevate you and he has seen it work. i don't care what anybody says. one will get you elected and one will get you indicted but we have seen how hate and lying and fear and stoking bigotry will work. >> d.l., you're smart and you come correct and i appreciate it. thank you for talking to me tonight. >> man, feel better, man.

>> thank you. >> happy anniversary. >> very nice. 33 years. god bless them. >> 33 years. you get less time than that for murder. >> she's not going to like that. 33 years of marriage. that deserves some mention on cuomo primetime. that's one case. something unusual happened inside another courtroom today. roger stone begged a judge for forgiveness. she hauled him in after he targeted her on social media and he walked out with a punishment. did stone get what he deserves? we'll take it up in cuomo's court, next. steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco.burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day all-night protection. can you imagine 24-hours without heartburn?

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stone apologized, chalked it up to a screw up. let's discuss. even if it were a "screw up" is this the right determination? >> you asked earlier before the break whether he got what he deserved and i think that this was -- what is deserved may not also be what is prudent and i think the judge gave -- did what was prudent. in this case it was to tighten up the restrictions on stone, basically tell him that he is walking on thin ice and if he screws up again, he is going to yank his bail and throw him in jail. and that protects her from

looking too punitive. however in terms of what he did, posting someone -- a federal judge with cross hairs, i want to harken back to the late president george h.w. bush. judge jackson said these things have meanings and stone knows the meaning of cross hairs. president bush revoked his lifetime membership in the nra after they put a poster of federal agents in crosshairs so i think the meaning of that and the insightfulness of it is well understood and she made that clear. >> do you have a defense to offer? >> no defense whatsoever. that was completely out of line and quite frankly dangerous and it's so unfortunate that he did that. he has to look at paul manafort sitting in jail at this point in time. and the amount of time, the damage that has done to him. he is a hair away from ending up

in the same place that paul manafort is if he continues that kind of conduct. the judge isn't going to tolerate it and she shouldn't. >> this is a pretty clean call. his first amendment rights are still exact. we'll see what he does going forward. this self-proclaimed dirty trickster but maybe he has a different perspective than what he's going to do with his time. let me ask you about something else, we have been following this jeffrey epstein situation. he was caught up, very rich guy, handled a lot of money, had a lot of parties with big time politicians on both sides of the aisle. he was accused with a good bit of proof of doing some really ugly stuff. there's an argument to be made that he could have been prosecuted under federal sex trafficking laws, however u.s. labor secretary alexander acosta, then a u.s. attorney in miami helped negotiate a

non-prosecution agreement that gave epstein and his co-conspirators immunity from federal prosecution. do you think he got a sweetheart deal because of who he knows? >> he definitely got a sweetheart deal. and i want to point out something here, the president made the cornerstone of his state of the union address stopping trafficking and that this was a big concern for him. >> big push on the border. >> what he used to justify, this is the border wall. this is what he's going to try to stop and then he had all that duct tape nonsense. these people are coming in with duct tape. the issue here is not just that acosta gave epstein a sweetheart deal but he didn't notify the victims about the condition of the settlement. he basically put duct tape on the victims. this is exactly what we're trying to pro vent accoevent ac

the president is trying to protect the victims from these kind of crimes. the test here in terms of whether the president is serious about this threat is whether he's going to do anything about this labor secretary who is essentially enabled or let go someone who committed some pretty atrocious offenses. >> the irony. that guy is a labor secretary. they're being made into sex workers. epstein by all apparent indications was part of that trade. now the guy is a labor secretary. >> i don't believe it's a sweetheart deal at all and as a matter of fact if you look back at the state court case, there was a grand jury convened on this. it came back and there was no chance he was going to see any jail time and there's no chance he was going to have to register as a sex offender and those victims weren't going to be designated victims for purposes

of recovery. all three of those things happened. he got 18 months in prison. he had to register as a sex offender and the victims were designated as victims so they could be compensated civilly. that's not something that could have happened had acosta and his office not stepped in. there are memos from a career attorney in that office making these same recommendations. it went up to the criminal division of the department of justice, the deputy's office at the department of justice. this isn't something that was made in a vacuum, sweetheart deal by the sitting u.s. attorney at the time. that's not how that happens. you know that's not how that happens. and in this case, this person -- >> i think it needs to be looked into -- >> this person got prosecuted at the state court level because the non-pros agreement forced him to go back down to the state level and take jail time and that's what happened to him. he's a bad guy. did he deserve more, most likely

so. he's a bad person. he did bad things, but hindsight is 2020 in this cases and prosecutors can only use what is in front of them at the time. and if you remember, let's also talk about the crime victims protection act. at that time, there was nothing specific in that act relative to non-pros agreements. that only came into effect by congress amending that law after the epstein case and there was an olc memo that supported the decision of acosta and remember he relied upon the career prosecutors that we talk about all the time that are so valued in this country. so is this the best he could do? that's the question. >> well, what basically jim is saying is that there is a paper trail here and we certainly have seen, you know, the congressional committees go and look at potential misconduct in

the fiza process. why not look at what happened here. the issue here is we can go back and trace what happened and a federal judge has found that acosta violated the law and mislead the victims. that he told them that further prosecution was a possibility. >> at the time, you know, the crv -- the act didn't require him to do it. >> why did the judge rule that way? >> we have to go with what the judge found. >> the judge disagreed -- the office of legal council at the time gave guy denidance on this issue. you know it. trying to go back now and with hindsight being 2020, sure. sure he could have because a lot of that after the fact about epstein. he's a bad guy.

he deserved to be prosecuted and in this case acosta got a deal that actually put the guy in prison when he was getting nothing from the state. >> we have to leave it there. i don't think this is the end of the story. jim, thank you and well argued. >> i told you last night the storm is coming. the mueller report is near. so is testimony from michael cohen. he was on the hill today. he wasn't meeting with anybody. it was a little bit misunderstood to be honest but he is going to testify. let's talk about what he could add to the stew, our truly redoubtable prognosticator is here tonight. mike rogers, next. for a nasty cold, take new dayquil severe with vicks vapocool. [a capella] whoa! and vaporize it with an intense rush of vicks vapors.

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>> the mueller report may be dropping as soon as next week. mike rogers, welcome back to primetime. a perfect mix of intelligence and legislative experience. what's the good that can come out? what's the problems for him? >> first of all, will he show up. >> he'll be there. >> do you think so? >> yes. >> probably so. he has too much at stake now they're going to try to get into other problems that he poses for the president. i do think he has a narrow lane that knows about the trump tower meeting but the gold mine was all the other dirty deeds he was doing for the president of the united states including the pay offs to all the other problems he had in the other business dealings which the mueller

investigation would not have gotten into but i know that the new york office, the prosecutor's office is getting into. >> what about the republicans? they'll come after him but what can they do they haven't done already? >> make the case. you lied before. you came here and you lied and now your going to jail and you're lying again because you don't want to do three years in jail. who does? it's going to be great political theater. it's probably not great for the country and it's probably not really good for the president. if he's honest about those other business dealings and this feels like to me, like a witness that wants to get this off his chest. he is angry now of how he feels that he was treated by the

president and it's up to the public to decide how much of this is vengeance and how much is true. >> new york said he wasn't helpful. >> not fully helpful. he helped them on some stuff and didn't others. fair point. to me it's a window into our future. this mueller report, the more i think about it and the more i can dig around to get a sense of what's coming, we're going to get less rather than more. what's going to happen here is mueller was very narrow. counter intelligence and crimes that related to a few different groups. this may be a springboard into a lot of congressional oversight into things that aren't satisfied by what comes out. >> i think that's right.

i don't think he'll come out with an indictment recommendation for the president for sure. it will be hard to find collusion. he's having a hard time cole colluding with his intelligence and defense department as president. i don't think he'll do it with the russians. i don't think that is going to happen. what i think he does is probably give a sample narrative of the problems. i mean the crimes that were committed by manafort. i think he owes the public an explanation of how all of that tied into his investigation. and so i think that you'll see that narrative, but your not going to see, to your point, the riches of the president did x, y and z and we should be mad at the president. i don't think that's what you're going to get. a little bit of narrative. you'll get the financial stuff that a lot of people are

interested in seeing. that's going to come out in this report and then you'll get an explanation of all the people. a lot of people went to jail. they lost their freedom over this whole thing and i do believe that he has an obligation to explain to the public why that happened. i think you'll get that. >> the x factor for me is does he suggest that things move on for further prosecutorial efforts and for further investigative efforts. that will be a big deal in terms of what happens next. mike rogers, can't do better than you, period and amen. be well. talk to you soon. >> thanks, chris. >> huge development to tell you about on a race at the center of an election fraud scandal. a stunning reversal by the republican leading the nation's only unsettled congressional contest. talk about voter fraud, we have seen it my friends and now we can point it out and see what it means. that's the great debate, next. when you switch out an old car part.$200 but you do when you switch to jackson hewitt. at jackson hewitt we help lots of people like you. that's why you get $200 when you leave your old tax service for us. so switch to jackson hewitt today and get $200.

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or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org voter fraud. the president loves to push that fictional message. if it wasn't for all the millions of illegals casting votes he would have won the popular vote. take what's going on in north carolina's ninth district. the last undecided congressional race. the election board held a new election after there was an extensive scheme by a gop

operative to tamper with absentee ballots. that's why it was done. got nearly a thousand more votes than the democrat. harris himself also called for a new election today, a big reversal after his long fight to be a certified winner. well listen to this part, harris's attorney says his stance was impacted by his son's emotional testimony that he did, in fact, tell his father about the gop operative at the center of this scandal. listen to this. >> i raised concerns about what i had then learned at that point that mccrae dallas had been hired to be part of the campaign. >> i love my dad. i love my mom, okay? i certainly have no vendetta against them, no family scores to settle, okay? >> the guy's own son testified

to the truth of the situation. effectively against his own father. harris was visibly emotional as was his son. where does that leave him now? that is a great debate. i have never seen anything like that. the guy's own son gives the e-mail, he's an ausa. gives his e-mail that he sent to his father to investigators as proof that he thought this guy was shady. the guy is shady. so now they'll have a new election. do you think harris should be able to run again? >> i don't think he should be able to run again, no. the guy is flawed for a whole variety of reasons. i bet you he doesn't. he's been -- he said that he had a couple of strokes and was ill. >> yes. >> so i'm thinking that he probably won't but in north carolina, the legislature passed a law that says you have to have a whole new election. so there means there has to be a primary on the republican and democratic side again.

so they're not going to see a sited congress person for a good few months. >> what do you think happens here, rick? >> i'd be surprised if harris runs. i think jennifer is right. he has health issues and he did not look good through this process. it's unlikely he's going to run and obviously the previous congressman has already announced that he isn't going to run so it's going to be a wide open seat and you'll -- i don't know what -- there will be some concrete process that will select the party that will select their nominee and they'll go forward. >> do you know what i hate about this? other than his son having to testify against him in the trial which is terrible, but the idea of voter fraud, our elections, we know they could be better, okay? we know that with all the technology we have in our society today, we vote by and large in ways begging for

problems but we can't get past the politics of it. if you switched the parties, the president would be all over it. if this was the democrats, he would be all over it. see, i told you, i told you, i told you, yet today nothing and you know he's not going to say anything about it because he only wants to play to his advantage. how do we ever hope to get better if that's all there is is just petty politics. >> i agree with you. this is an instruck tif moment where everybody can come forward and say this is clearly an illegal activity under north carolina law or pretty much any law. collecting ballots is different. some states allow you to collect absentee ballots. in the case of filling out ballots, that's a problem anywhere and frankly the president i think would do himself some credit if he came out and said they made the right decision in north carolina and we're going to go and compete in that seat and we're going to do it in an honest and fairway. i don't think it helps him not to comment on these things.

>> i was going to say, the north carolina republican party has been dreaming up ways to commit voter fraud in another way which is to lie to the citizens saying that there is actual voter fraud meaning the individual who goes to cast a vote when what has really been happening is they have been stealing elections by suppressing the vote. in fact, the supreme court refused to take up a case that cut back the fact that the north carolina republicans repressed the vote so badly, they said it was surgically done to exclude people of color. that's a true voter fraud. that is truly stealing the election. >> here's the reality jennifer, in states that it passed voter i.d. laws, actually, minority turn out is up, not down. so the idea that these things are designed to suppress minority votes, which is what is often said, you know what, it's a bad design.

>> wrong. >> they should get rid of this design. >> you are wrong. the court found that the voter i.d. requirements were specifically targeting african american voters and shutting down sunday voting. >> only democrats and african americans vote on sunday? >> that's what the court said, rick. >> oh, then they're obviously right. >> i'm not saying -- that's actually what the state admitted. it was the smoking gun in the case. the state actually admitted in writing that it targeted african americans and democrats who disproportionally took advantage of that. so the bottom line is north carolina has been doing this and doing it under the name of voter fraud and chris, i don't think we should be calling it voter fraud when the republican politicians are trying to steal elections systemically. i think that we should say this is politician stealing the election -- politician fraud. >> as you know jennifer most

states don't allow votes on sunday. it's not because they're trying to suppress a vote but it's because some people don't think we should be doing political things on a sunday. >> well they don't have to. >> you can say there may be other reasons but there's a legitimate reason not to vote on sunday. >> well, rick, this is done not for religious reasons, this is done -- >> oh. >> stop that right now. you know very well and people have been on tape saying that the reason why they're adopting all of these restrictive policies is to cut back on democrats and people of color and students voting. it's been done in michigan and by the way, the brennan center has done a survey of 20 studies of nonpartisan organizations that determine that you are more likely to get hit by lightning than a voter going into impersonate somebody improperly. >> hold on, i don't know about that. but there's cases we just saw and chris is aware of a lot of people that are illegals

registering and voting in the state of texas. >> that was debunked. >> it was not. in part but not in whole. >> yes it was. >> no it wasn't. >> go to the brennan center. they are a non-partisan entity. well, you can do what republicans do which is to destroy the fact. >> that's not a fact. >> but the facts are that 20 nonpartisan organizations have done since 2009 studies to say that it is utterly rare for voters to impersonate somebody else and go to vote. what is much more likely is that votes are being stolen by republicans who are cutting out people's access to the ballot box. >> okay. two things, number one i was not talking about people going to vote impersonating someone else. i was talking about people who were illegal that shouldn't have the right to vote voting. that's number one. number two, it's a tired old song that the democrats have to

continue to play the race game in every issue. as that every issue that republicans are just a bunch of racists. >> if you're not afraid to compete then allow people access. >> how about the integrity of the ballot box. people identify themselves who they are before they walk in. that is not a racist thing to do. >> why is it in texas that a student cannot use a picture student i.d. to vote but somebody with a conceal carry permit can vote. those are strategic decisions made to carve out certain segments of the population. we have to be allowing voters to choose the politicians and the politicians to choose the voters. >> this was a well handled debate. a lot of disagreement but done with decency. i like that quick come back. when you said only partially debunked. >> there were exaggeration in those numbers. it's true. >> this is going to be an on

going situation because our system is not where it needs to be. >> this is how we get where we need to be. jennifer, rick, thank you both. >> appreciate it. >> this jussie smollett case, look, it's the talk of the nation. it's created a seismic jolt in chicago. d.lemon has new information. we'll bring him in next.

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believes jussie smollett has portrayed the city of chicago, wrongly. they're not taking it lying down, as you saw today with the police chief, the mayor is fo h forthrightly behind him and he speaks his truth tonight and you definitely want to see it coming up. you mentioned -- also something that you want to see coming up, okay? you know who john mccorder is, right? he has a piece in the atlantic called what the jussie smollett story reveals? it shows a peculiar aspect of 21st century america victimhood chic he calls it. for a long time the enlightened black person was to pretend that o.j. simpson was framed out of concern about the way the l.a.p.d. treated black people for decades. for similar reasons, even today the idea that michael brown in ferguson died with his sounds up

although soundly refuted by all lines of evidence retain status as almost an alternative fact in some quarters. he pulls no punches. if you want to hear what he says on this show in just moments. >> we will be people have to make sure they come correct on this story. dale hughley was right out in front. >> can i say something about dale hughley? there's nothing wrong with having compassion and saying i stand behind someone if they're a victim. if you find out otherwise, then you can, as you say, come correct. i think he's absolutely right. the president of the united states did the exact safme thin, said this is horrible, this should not have happened. then today tweeted something else after he got more information. i thought d.l. was brilliant and right on on that point. and i don't see anything wrong with having compassion or

with -- having compassion for a victim, absolutely nothing wrong with it. >> the trick is, what the closing is about tonight, why i came in, is that the idea of how you handle it now matters everybody bit as much as the way it was handled initially. >> amen. >> there is nothing wrong with empathy. it should be the presumption, that as you say, somebody feels it, let's feel with them. but then the facts should be want guide. and the idea now of, well, the police, they're really way too interested in debunking what happened with smollett than they are in solving these other cases, that's not fair. they were presented with a situation. they have to do their job. and yes, he's a somebody, and yes, it got attention, and yes, therefore it's going to get more of their attention. it always works that way. that's why we give attention to cases when we can. but it's got to be handled right now or it is going to be a blow to a just cause. >> that's your closing statement, and you want to watch

my opening take, it's similar. we shall see. >> it will be a battle of the brothers to the end. we'll see who wins. >> i'm not going to pull any punches. >> you never do. i'll see you. so look, as don and i are talking, there are hard realities here. take them on, head on. that's what let's get after it is all about. don't hide from the truth here. you will help no one. here is my argument, next. everyone's got to listen to mom.

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a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. . based on what the chicago police laid out today, jussie smollett is in trouble. do me a favor. strip away the agendas and just see this for what it was and now is. people cared about this initially for good reason. hate crimes are real. they're on the rise in some respects. this guy is a somebody, which makes it more interesting. the maga angle, the fact that these cases are often given short shrift, and the goal is to expose an animus that must be

put down. that's all fine. so what does it mean if it's fake? it means this one is a fake. smollett is a fake. that's all it means. but at the same time, denying that reality or soft peddling it would be a mistake. we do victims of violence no favors by coddling smollett. because he's going through something or the police seem intent on disproving him, those are not good counters to the understanding. if he's not telling the truth and some twist themselves up on trying to make it okay, shame on them. owning what this was, not what it was said to be, validates the truth. and that's what should matter most. we do no favor to victims by mitigating the circumstances. there may be complicating factors about his life and experience, et cetera. and that's part of the conversation. but could findddling is not kin. it's capitulation to making a narrative more powerful than the

truth. it's also true that black people get attacked and they go missing and they get trafficked on city streets all over the country and are ignored. their rights are abused, sometimes systematically. all of it is too often known and ignored. none of that is helped by hiding from the reality here. own what this is and you can own whatever else happens. fight the reality here and you give those who would question the reality, a prima facie case of fake outrage that will become a cudgel in future instances that demand attention. it's about truth. the truth of injustice is not helped by covering in any way for smollett if he committed an injustice. nothing about this is comfortable or okay. this stinks. but the commodity for us is always accuracy and information and an impact. don't lose sight of that. everything about this smollett situation makes things worse. the facts, the outrage, the

fashion to make everything about what is wrong for those who advocate for minority rights at first and now this rush to make it proof that so much of the concern over such cases is overblown. the truth matters, period. but why are some on the right so determined to make this situation speak to what they see as a broader bias? do they have similar motivation to unearth bogus accounts that suit them? of course not. so the lesson here is simple. don't look for high ground. look for the truth. and that will lead us where we need to be. that's all i have for tonight. thank you for watching cnn tonight. we got d. lemon right now. >> how are you feeling? >> better than i deserve. >> you feel better today? >> i'm getting there. i had to come in for this matter. >> it did matter. and, you know, you were talking about this on proffer. i mean, chris. >> i don't know how his lawyers read that and were okay putting

out the statement that he had to put out. i don't know where they get off saying that the police are doing some disservice to smollett. unless this is the biggest fabrication not just in chicago but in the nation's history of policing, this guy has got big problems. >> chicago police, the department has a long history of doing some things right but a lot of things wrong. >> mm-hmm. >> this case is so high profile. there appears to be from this so much evidence that it's hard to see how this would indeed be a setup. and i'm going to explain why. again, you have to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. there is a justice system, a legal system in our country. when you look at this, i -- it just floors me. >> if you just start with the basic idea of two nigerian brothers putting on