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when i tell people my story, they don't believe it. i guess i wouldn't believe the story if someone else were telling it, but i'm telling it, and it's true, every word of it. it started when i was born 56 years ago, but the real story began when i was 19 years old when i went to college. ♪ ♪ it was 1980. it was the first day of school at sullivan community college up in the cat skills 110 miles from where i grew up. so i drove up there alone. ♪ ♪ i had this really old car. it was a volvo and it was a 1970 volvo. it had like 130,000 miles on it.

the car was burgundy. the hood was green. the car was called "the old bitch." but the old bitch got me there. sullivan was a community college. this wasn't some long-standing institution of higher learning. all the station wagons are dropping kids off. i was nervous. i had just gotten to the school. i didn't know anybody. i was a freshman. i was never the captain of the football team in high school, so i was never really, in fact, popular. so i'm walking around trying to find where my dorm is. meanwhile, all these people are coming up to me saying, hi, how are you? how was your summer? mine was great. how was yours? super. why are they asking me how my

summer was? i don't know. everybody is being extremely friendly to me and they're going out of their way to do it. i don't mean just a hi. i mean claps on the back and high fives. and i was a little bit bewildered by this because no one gets this kind much welcome their first day of school. and girls were kissing me, like fully kissing me, saying, i'm so glad you came back. i was saying, thank you back, but i had never been there before and i didn't know them. it was bizarre. and the next thing i heard right behind me, welcome back. eddy. eddy, how are you? eddy, hi. i don't know what you're talking about. sure, eddy, you're funny, you're real funny. i'm not eddy. i don't know who eddy is. welcome back, eddy, they're all saying. i finally made it to this dump of a dorm room.

and before a minute had gone by, who now? who now is going to come to find eddy? i had been at college the previous year with eddy and i knew that he wasn't coming back to school. as soon as this guy turned around, i was actually shaking. i know -- the color from my face dropped because i knew it was his double. he had the same grin, the same hair, the same expressions. it was his double, and i see this guy's face and he's like, just standing there. the first thing out of my mouth was, were you adopted? and i was like, yes. i said, is your birthday july 12th? he said, yes. i was like, july 12, 1961? oh, my god. you're not going to believe

this. you have a twin brother. you have a twin. >> oh, my god. i said, come with me. the two of us were crammed in this phone booth shoulder to shoulder. we closed the door to the phone booth. and i'm trying to put the coins in and they keep falling on the floor. bobby is picking up the coins. and he calls this guy and he's like, hey, eddy, you're not going to believe this. eddy, eddy, you're not going to believe this. this guy is more hysterical than i am weirded out. eddy, you're not going to believe this. give me the phone. hi, eddy? >> yes? but it was my voice that said, yes? and i said, hi, eddy. my name is robert shafrin. i'm meeting all these people who say i'm you. uh-huh, yeah, i've been getting some calls.

were you adopted? he said, yes. and i said, when was your birthday? >> july 12. >> do you know who the agency was? >> no, hold on. >> and i heard him going -- >> mom? >> he came back and said -- >> louise wise services. >> sometimes when you are just having a dream and you know this captain be re can't be real. you know there's nothing you can do to stop it, start it, change, just go with it. i wanted to see what was going to happen next. and i'm like, let's go. let's go meet eddy. so we got into the old bitch. it was 9:00 at night, it's about a two- hour ride. we were speeding on route 17. we were going 100 miles per hour, perhaps more. we were speeding.

driving as fast as the car would go. and we got pulled over by a new york state trooper. and as i rolled down my window, there's this gigantic cop with like the sunglasses, even though it's nighttime and the big hat. he said, you know i clocked the a 50 -- son, you better have a really good reason. well, officer, you're never going to believe this. the two of us are yelling at this guy. you don't know, this guy, this guy has a twin brother. he was adopted and we're going to long island to go see. and the guy was, yeah, right. yeah. here's your ticket. have a good day. >> and on to long island we went.

so, we got there, but it's like the middle of the night. and it's this really quiet neighborhood. so we get out of the car and walked up this little path to the house. the lights were on in the house. and i reached out to knock on the door. as i reached out to knock on the door, it opens. and here i am. his eyes are my eyes and my eyes are his eyes and it's true. >> they looked exactly alike. they're duplicates of each other. there was no doubt in my mind that they were twins. >> he's going, my god, i'm going, oh, my god.

he's going, holy crap. i'm going, holy crap. they looked at each other. every time bobby moved his head, eddy moved. an eddy would move, and then bobby would move. like they were looking at a mirror. it was the weirdest thing. >> it was like the world faded away and it was just me and eddy. middle of a busy day. we got a call from somebody who says they have an amazing story to tell us. we're not going to believe this story. and my first reaction, it's a hoax. so i told our reporter, i want to rent a plane. in those days we had enough money to do this. i want to rent a plane. i want to see these two kids face to face, or i don't believe this. we flew the journalist up to

sullivan community college, and he called me and he said, howie, it's true. it's true. and i remember saying, oh, my god, this is a great story. this is a memorable, heart warming story. and then the story went from being amazing to incredible, okay. from amazing to incredible. >> i was on the new york subway late at night. read an article about two boys who found each other that were twins, separated at birth, and found each other at sullivan county community college. there was no picture, but the story was fascinating. i came home and went to sleep. my mother came into the room and said, wake up, wake up, i have to show you something. and she shows me a newspaper

with a picture of two boys. i had to focus. i looked at the photograph and i said, is that david? and she's like, no, but look at the hands. and i was like, holy mackerel, this is beyond amazing. >> it was a picture in the newspaper of two guys in the post, and i picked up the picture and i looked at it and i was like in shock. because the two guys in the post looked exactly, exactly like my friend david. i stared at it. it wasn't even the look on their face. it was the way they were holding their hands. they had these big meaty hands. david always had hands that looked like baseball mitts. when i saw their hands, i just knew that this is david.

>> it was just a normal day. i got to school, ran into my buddy allen. he said, david, take a look at this. he's got a copy of the new york post. and he opens it up. he says, look at this. look familiar? something to that effect. i said, yeah, right, sure. but then we looked at it a little bit more closely. it was an article, twins reunited after more than 19 years, and it had a picture of two of what looked like me. it all started to sink in. holy shut, oh, my god. this is not believable. this is unbelievable. wow, this is big. this is serious. this is not some kind of crazy coincidence. this is not a minor resemblance.

this is real, this is happening. this is really, really serious. i ditched glasses, got home. my mother was waiting at the kitchen table with a cup of coffee. i said, mom, did you see this? did you see this? we exchanged newspapers. it had born in long island, jewish hocspital, july 12, 1961 louise wise adoption agency. i knew i was adopted. my parents were open about it. it said eddy, robert of scars daily, new york. son of prominent scars dale physician mort shafrin. i said, he got the wealthy family. that s.o.b. is probably driving a benz. he got a doctor. and i remember being with david in the kitchen. we were like really nervous. i mean, we were, you know,

jumping around. we were 19 years old. i mean, this was surreal. and david picked up the phone and he called information and he reached eddy's mom. >> and i said, hi, is eddy home? she says, no, who is calling, please? okay, now i have to go into this whole thing on the phone. i said, well, my name is david kell man and i was born july 12, 1961, and i'm looking at a newspaper and basically i think i'm looking at two of me. i think i might be the third. and i think she dropped the phone actually. >> and i remember hearing her voice over the phone. oh, my god, they're coming out of the woodwork. >> it was a miracle. the first time that the boys met

together, the three together, was at my house. and the three of them ended up like puppies wrestling on the floor. it was the most incredible -- it was the most incredible thing. they belonged to each other. they knew each other. there was no formal introduction. i mean, when you meet somebody for the first time, you don't end up rolling around on the floor with them. >> it was truly not fully believable. even though it was happening, it was still surreal. you think you're dreaming. you're looking, oh, my god. you look at the other one, oh, my god. then you realize that they're looking at you or everybody else is looking at you, two. >> to have all three of them in the house at one time was really madness. >> my emotions were shock, shock and more shock.

i mean, i can't explain it. i haven't got the terminology. >> one of our reporters came running over to me and said, you're not gonna believe this. you are not gonna believe the call we just got. you know the two kids on the front page today? well, there's a third. >> they even move the same way. all of us just sat back and watched three separate lives becoming one. >> the way i put it was i look more like eddy than i did david, and more like david than i did eddy, and more like either of them than they did like each other. does that make sense? and then we started comparing notes. >> what do 19-year-olds compare?

boos, cigarettes, food, women, music, cars. i just bought a brand-new mercury kapri which i loved, and bobby had this maroon beat up old volvo with cracked leather seats. i'm thinking, son of prominent scars dale physician, huh? >> i think it was eddy who said right at the beginning, i don't know if this will turnout to be great or terrible. so, there was always a question mark, a big question mark about where the story eventually was going. >> we didn't realize from then on just how much things were going to change. >> now one of the most remarkable stories i've seen some sometime. a story about tripletts. eddy and robert and david reunited after 19 years. >> we have a story about tripletts that gives new meaning

to the phrase long lost brothers. >> we went on everything. everything. >> you're not seeing double. you are perhaps in a moment going to be seeing triple. >> i don't know who is who here. come on out, gentlemen, come on out. >> you just had to stop what you're doing and watch them on every different show. >> it became a circus. it became a media circus, talking about viral. i mean, it was viral even then. >> you guys have been on the front page of every newspaper in the world. >> true. >> people magazine, time magazine, even "the new york times," good house keeping. >> david, let's begin with you. which one is david? i keep forgetting. >> you're edward. >> i'm bob. >> you're robert. all right, robert and edward -- [ laughter ] >> come on. >> it was a fairy tale story.

and people need to hear wonderful things. >> these three young men, they're all seated in the same position -- [ laughter ] >> it was kind of amazing. they real write strangers. they looked identical to each other, but they were strangers. they didn't know one another. but their behaviors were so similar. >> our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree. it's ridiculous. >> we're all the same. as soon as we started discussing our personalities. >> personalities are the same. >> we talk at the same time. >> i'll start a sentence, he'll finish t. >> all like chinese food. >> you were wres letters. >> yes. >> you smoke the same kind of cigarette? >> what cigarette do you smoke? marlborough. >> do you smoke the same brand? >> yes. >> do you like the same colors? >> yes. >> i was curious, how is the taste in women, similar? >> yes, definitely. >> it seems they all like older women. >> somebody said you all like older women.

>> well -- >> well -- >> another astonishing coincidence is that each of the brothers grew up with an adopted sister. all the girls, now 21 years old. >> i can't get over it. i'm telling you. extraordinary string of coincidences, you all have to agree, right? >> beautiful. >> you say you love each other. >> i've known him my whole life. >> how long did it take you to have that filling? >> like that. >> this were more like clones than they were like brothers. it was just absolutely astounding because they grew up in what appeared to be pretty different households. >> we had been adopted by a blue collar family, a middle class family, and a more affluent family.

bobby's parents, bobby's father was a medical doctor. and his mother was an attorney. so they were very well educate and had they were living in one of the most prestigious areas of the country. eddy's father was a teacher. he had a college education, and they lived in what would be considered a middle class neighborhood. my family on paper were the least educated. they were immigrants. english was a second language to them. they had a little store. they were the more blue collar family. but my father was just this incredibly generous, warm guy. david's father richard was

larger than life. i could imagine this guy was a big guy with a big cigar always hanging out of his mouth. >> we referred to him as bubbala. >> if you know yiddish, it's like love, it's hugging and it's kissing. >> we spent more time at david's house than anyplace else. bubala celebrated us like no other person. he said, i have two more sons. >> when the boys found each other, it just sort of happened then and there. here is this wonderful story, and that's it. nobody questioned what was going on except the parents, of course. >> when the families met up the

first time, there was great anger in all of them about the fact that the parents had never been told that there were two other children. >> they didn't tell us a word when we were adopting. we knew nothing about the other two till the boys met at school. that was 20 years later. >> announcer: cnn films, three dent cat strangers, presented bitd the spacious volkswagen tiguan. more room means more fun. p. getting used to each other's idiosyncrasies. it's an adventure. a test. [ grunting ] a test that jeff failed miserably.

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the first thing that hit me was what they lost. >> i believe they were six months old when they were separated. if you imagine those three little bodies lying together and suddenly the coldness of being alone in a crib, it's a terrible deprivation. >> i remember being told by my mother when i was a baby that i would slam my head against the wall. i would basically knock myself out. >> my mother said i would bang my head on the inside of the crib. and i would hold my breath until i passed out. >> i believe it was absolutely separation anxiety.

>> all of us had been adopted from louise wise services. >> louise wise services, the new york institution founded back in 1916, overseen by a board of directors drawn from new york city's social, financial and political elite. >> they were the preeminent adoption agency on the east coast for jewish babies in particular. that was the place to go. >> what we have felt at louise wise services where i have been active for a great long time is that adoptive parents should be told as much about the background of a child as is reasonable. >> our parents, they wanted answers. they were angry, and they arranged a meeting and they -- six of them went into louise

wise agency to try to get some answers in terms of piecing together what happened. >> there was a meeting with the top brass at the agency, and they were asked, is it true that you separated these boys at birth? and they said, yes, we did. >> why? how could you not tell us? what did you do? why? and how could you? >> they said the reason was because it was hard to place three children in one home.

>> the parents had been told that it was in our best interest that we had been split up. >> that not every parent would welcome tripletts, and that tripletts would be difficult to place, which -- i think that's when my father blew his stack. he said, we would have taken all three. there's no question. and he was furious. >> well, the meeting came to an end. >> they all left. they felt like they had gotten nothing. and my father realized that he had left his umbrella in there. >> and he went back to get the umbrella. and he walked into the room to see them breaking open a bottle

of champagne and toasting each other as if they had dodged a bullet. >> they looked like they just missed getting heard or killed or what have you. it was a -- that was memorable. >> all of our parents came away from that meeting angry. >> the parents went to some pretty prestigious new york law firms, and initially they were met with a lot of enthusiasm and invariably in a short period of time were told, there is a conflict, and they could not take the case. >> they said, we have a number of associates who are trying to adopt through louise wise, and

we don't want to ruin their chances. so that lawsuit was out. >> we were too happy being together to be that angry. we didn't understand it. and to a degree, we almost didn't care. >> our heads were in the clouds. we knew our parents were pissed off, but it was almost like, well, that's our parents' thing to do. we were out partying. >> this was new york in 1980. drugs were different, people were different, sex was different, music was different. >> sex, drugs, rock and roll. >> they were running amuck in new york, i'll say.

studio 54 was cooking. limelight copa cabana. they were hitting them all. >> new york loved us. new york loved us. >> all the newspapers were following the boys around no matter where we went. >> i remember one morning walking in and my mother throwing "the new york post" at me at the kitchen table. i got to look at the paper to find out where you were last night? >> the boys thought they were going to be stars and actually they did star in one movie. >> walking down the street. all of a sudden, we hear, guys! guys! you're the guys! could you please be in the movie! please be in my movie! >> we didn't know who she was.

she was done. >> they stood up and oogled her. >> soon we got an apartment together, the triplets apartment. >> the triplets apartment. it's like if you had the most, the bachelor apartment times three. >> the liquor store used to deliver the liquor. at one point, eddy had appendicitis. >> he had no insurance. so he checked into the hospital as bobby to have his appendix taken out as bobby and hope today bobby's appendix stays pretty healthy. >> working together, playing together, going out together. going on dates together. living together. from the time we met till later, there was nothing, nothing that could keep us apart. >> i feel like i was the first

serious girlfriend. initially, i couldn't really tell them apart. and i would bump into them and i wasn't quite sure which one i was going out with, so -- bob has this very raw natural type of intelligence that i think i was attracted to. >> i always thought david was the best, right, of the three of them. i've said it before, you know, i got the pick of the litter. >> without a doubt, eddy was the handsomeest of all the three triplets. of course, i'm partial. but i adored him. when i met him, he was the last hold out, the casanova of the three. and i said, oh, boy. this guy is a real bachelor, like player. but he was so warm in his smile

and he had wonderful, beautiful hands, soft hands. when i shook his hand, you know, i just fell in love with him. i'm from a big colorful irish catholic family and he was a jewish guy. when he came to the house for the first time, he looked at my dad and he said, i don't know if you know this, mr. shanly. i've been seeing brenda every night pretty much since the first day i met her. and i thought, oh, my god, my dad knows we're together every night. and my dad just sort of looked at me like, okay. and that was eddy. >> i do. >> i do. [ applause ] ♪ ♪ >> we love you.

♪ ♪ >> everyone loved him. if it was a scale, bobby would be reserved, david would be middle. and eddy was just the lovable mushy huggable funny, you know, he just exuded warmth and love. >> aha ha ha ha. >> her first thanksgiving with daddy. >> daddy decided to show up and make a special guest. here. ♪ happy birthday, dear jamie, happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ >> he loved family gatherings. >> yea! >> eddy really, really loved

being around david and bobby. eddy seemed to get the most out of the three of them meeting, for whatever reason. >> he wanted his brothers and him to have a beautiful life and everyone to get along, and he wanted everyone to be one big family. >> eddy was absolutely the driving force in terms of leading the search for our birth mother. he got a fever and he just wanted to do it. and alan was also rallying because it was an exciting thing to do. we figured, what are the chances of having triplets born in new york on july 12, 1961? >> we figured out that new york

public library shared birth records. >> we each grabbed a book and went page by page by page by page and within a couple of hours, it was, bingo! male, male, male. three in a row. >> born july 12, 1961. >> right next to it, birth mother's last name. the first meeting was a bar on like 47th street. it was like her local neighborhood watering hole on the east side. and it was awkward. she told the story of what happened. unfortunately, it wasn't a romantic story. she was a young girl. >> basically prom night knockout type thing.

>> i don't think she ever got over the fact that she had triplets and had to give them up. >> you know, to us at 19, you drink like a fish, you think you're invincible. but we found it a little concerning that she was pretty much keeping up with us, you know. the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree. if that's the tree, i was less than thrilled. we had our parents already. so we met her and it was okay. but she was not a particularly close part of our lives. we were all young and starting our marriages and careers. >> hi, welcome to triplets. >> david, robert and edward are

identical triplets. they have a restaurant called, what else? you guessed, triplets. >> welcome. hello, welcome. welcome. >> we had a lot of people who were coming for us. they came to see the triplets. we served vodka, flows enblocro of ice and we'd get the room up dancing. >> it was like a big party, a big bar mitzvah. >> triplets become wildly successful owning a restaurant in the soho district of new york city. >> we did over a million dollars the first year. >> that's when things kind of got funky.

>> in the mid '90s, i started working on a story for "the new yorker" magazine about identical twins reared apart. i've always thought, what would it be like if you turn the corner one day and you saw yourself? in the process of my research, i came across this obscure scientific article. it referenced this secret study in which identical siblings had been separated. i was shocked and intrigued.

they were separating identical babies at birth for the purpose of this scientific experiment. and these babies had all come from one adoption agency in new york city. >> the first thing out of my mouth was, were you adopted? here i am. this can't be real. >> twins separated at birth. >> eddy and robert and david reunited after 19 years. >> beautiful. >> blue collar family. middle class family. and a more affluent family. >> adoptive parents should be told as much as reasonable. >> something was just not right. >> they were breaking open a bottle of champagne as if they had dodged a bullet. >> all of us were adopted from louise wise. >> louise wise. >> and these babies had all come from louise wise services.

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itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe.

pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. lawrence wright called me and he told me all about the experiment. and i said, this is like nazi shut.

>> it was kind of like reality hitting like a tidal wave. >> we were a science experiment. >> these people split us up and studied us like lab rats. >> we didn't recognize this stuff until it was put in our face, until it was in newsprint. >> but there were clues in the past. >> i remember from a very young age people would come to the house, usually a young man and a young woman. and they had me taking tests. they did iq tests, personality inventory tests, they did

eye-hand coordination tests. >> i do remember people coming to the house, having tests done, square pegs in round holes, rorschach ink blot tests. what does this mean to you? that kind of stuff. >> eddy told me that when he was younger, he remembers people watching him and taking notes. and they would ask him questions, and he would get frustrated with the questions. and he remembers they were videotaping him. >> i remember the filming more than anything else. >> i remember having super 8 millimeter films taken of me when i was on a swing set or a slide. >> every single time they came,

they filmed. riding my bike, throwing a ball. and they wanted to see how many times i could go on my pogo stick. roller skating, throwing a frisbee, shooting a bow and arrow. they had my attention. i was performing. >> the stuff they did would be more complex as i got older. >> i felt weird about it. i didn't really understand why they needed to come so often, why were they asking me all these questions? >> somewhere around age 9 and 10 i started becoming less comfortable with it and it was kind of like, mom, do i still have to do this? do i still have to do this? >> when our parents adopted us, they were each told that we were being followed as part of a normal study of the development of adopted children. they had no idea that we had been separated. >> the agency said, the children born in this period of time were all going to be in a normal study of adoptive children.

and as far as we knew, that was it. >> this was a new thing, they were going to follow up with all the children. and at the time we accepted it. >> you're talking about a group of people that went and held a baby and did psychological testing on a 6-month-old baby. and then went to another house to see his brother. and then went to another house to see his brother. and did this over years and years and years and years, with full knowledge that we were within a 100-mile radius and not knowing each other. it's just -- it's unconscionable. >> who would think that anybody would be evil enough to come up with something like this?

>> in the process of my research, i learned that the person really in charge of this study was dr. peter neubauer. very distinguished psychiatrist in new york. director of the freud archives. he was an austrian refugee from the holocaust. and he set up shop in new york and became, you know, one of the great men of psychiatry in america. >> what i learned is that people at the louise wise agency were separating identical siblings. and then a team of scientists, led by neubauer, were follow them. but it wasn't just the triplets.

there were others. >> after my article came out, another twin set discovered themselves. >> and here they are now. >> appreciate you coming on the show today. >> our pleasure. >> it's amazing, the story is incredible. is that the way to tell it? >> it's funny. we say if it hadn't happened to us, we wouldn't believe it. >> this is a disney movie. >> it's a little darker than a disney movie. >> i was at home in my apartment in brooklyn with my 2-year-old daughter and the phone rings. la-di-da, answer the phone and it was the adoption agency. we've got some news for you, you've got a twin sister and she's looking for you. >> you were both editors of your high school paper. you both went to film school. >> well, it's funny. i don't know if you notice. our mannerisms. >> yes. >> my contact at the adoption agency -- >> asked them, why we separated? >> asked the million-dollar question. >> for a twin study. >> we felt our lives had been orchestrated by these scientific researchers who put their scientific needs, research needs

or desires, their career interests, before the needs of us and the interests of us and the other twins who were separated. >> nobody is sure of how many identical twins were involved in this study. i was told six to eight. but we don't really know. when you have a study like this, normally you produce the results and you show how large the sample is and all this sort of thing. but this study was never published. which makes it all the more intriguing. >> we did have an attorney try to get us some of the study records. we received a small amount of information. it was very dry, technical data that didn't really shed any light on the reasons for the study. it was garbage.

>> i don't know what the results were or if there were results because i never saw them. >> they're trying to conceal what they did from the people they did it to. why? >> i mean, what was the purpose of it? the study was never published. why? like the smell of it laughs ♪ half of small businesses fail within 5 years.ne. and more people than ever struggle with debt. intuit is here to change this story... with giant solutions like turbotax, quickbooks and mint that give everyone the power to prosper. intuit. proud makers of turbotax, quickbooks and mint.

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i can worry about it, or doe. something about it. garlique helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally, and it's odor-free, and pharmacist recommended. garlique my name is natasha josefowitz. and i was peter neubauer's research assistant. so come on in. would you like a cup of coffee?

here are some of my buddies. michelle obama and i. she is very tall. i'm like a little shrimp next to her. i come up to her right here. this is obama three years ago, and here he is holding my latest book. i have to tell you, i said, barack, i love you. he said, i love you too, and he gave me a kiss on this cheek. yeah. this is robert redford. and al gore. and this is errol flynn and me when i was 18. i thought it was a hoot. picasso. when are we going to talk about the twin study? you know, you need to know i am not part of the team. i am a peripheral person. i just do the hearsay. the first time i heard about the twin study, it was still just a dream in peter's head.

>> what was he like? >> hm. sexy. nice looking. interesting. his background was very freudian. anna freud, freud's daughter, would often come and visit with him. he was very focused on wanting to make a difference in children's lives. peter started thinking, wouldn't it be interesting to have a study of mothers who wanted to give up their children, who happened to be identical twins. and then could be separated at birth. if we could put them into totally different environments, we would put to rest the dilemma, nature or nurture, forever. now you may think, oh, this is terrible, you know, how could you do this? you have to put yourself back in

the late '50s and '60s. this was not something that seemed to be bad. nobody said, to take children apart, how terrible. that was not at all in anyone's thoughts. this was a very exciting time. psychology was just beginning to be the big deal that everybody was talking about. this was all in terms of research, an opportunity. >> one of the great questions that science has ever asked is, how do we become the people we are? how much of nature versus how much of nurture shapes us into the people that we become? >> i did not go and do the research. but i would hear about it because i was in the office. what they found out was incredible.

>> our lives are parallel to a phenomenal degree. it's -- it's ridiculous. >> we're all the same. >> all the same. >> as soon as we started discussing our personalities -- >> personalities are the same, gestures are the same. >> talk at the same time. >> you were raised in different homes. >> true. >> true. >> i did not believe that it would be as much hereditary as it was. that was more than any of us thought. >> i'll start a sentence and he'll finish it. >> we all like chinese food. >> you were all wrestlers at one time. >> yes. >> yes. >> you all smoke cigarettes. >> yes. >> yes. >> do you all smoke the same brand? >> yes. >> yes. >> do you like the same colors? >> yes. >> yes. >> what's your taste in women, is it similar? >> yes. >> definitely. >> we are moved to behaviors we are totally unconscious about. >> you were both editors of your high school paper. you both went to film school. >> i don't know if you notice,

mannerisms are inherited. >> seem to be inherited. >> it's disturbing. we don't like that. people don't like to hear this. i have free will. we would prefer that we have some influence over our lives. wouldn't you rather know that, that you have some control over this? and so finding out, never mind, doesn't matter what you do. so i think it's upsetting to people, to see how little influence they have, how little control they have. we don't like that. we fight that. >> if the conclusions of the study were so shocking and so earthshaking -- why haven't you published your study? there's a lot that we don't know. we have anecdotes that are very provocative.

but we don't know. we don't have the data. >> i don't know what happened to the study. i moved to switzerland in 1965. and lost touch with what was going on. all that research should be seen. this study was the first, and it's also the last. it will never be done again, it will never be replicated. it's monumental. it's a monumental study. >> in terms of their motivation that they used to justify what they did, i don't even care. because i -- i -- it's not justifiable, what they did. >> you know what? coming from the holocaust, our family has a knowledge that when you play with humans, you do

something very wrong. and i really believe that because of this research, these three boys did not have happy endings. >> what were some of the similarities you found that you had as you were all growing up in your own respective households? >> we all smoked the same cigarettes when we met. we all wrestled in high school and junior high. we all liked the same food. our tastes in women were similar. >> what are some of the stranger things you found out you had in common? any of the more surprising discoveries? >> well, sometimes when you think you have a unique thought or idea and you go to share it with someone and they say, your brother just told me. it's a little annoying.

>> funny. >> it's a little annoying, it's unnerving. >> being in business with my brothers damaged our relationship. there were conflicting work ethics. and my father had passed away. he really anchored us together as a group and kept the peace, so to speak. >> they started to argue like kids would argue, you know? and they didn't have that opportunity, that gift of being able to be brothers for 18 years. >> when you are living in a family of children, you learn how to adjust to each other. if i don't like the way you do this, i can get angry, or i can learn to compromise. but they met as adults. and had never learned how to

live with each other. >> as things went on, things got more complicated. and as things got more complicated, what ended up happening was i left. moving in together, it's a big step. getting used to each other's idiosyncrasies. it's an adventure. a test. [ grunting ] a test that jeff failed miserably. [ upbeat music starts ] the spacious volkswagen tiguan. more room means more fun. have you ever worked with dr. francis? oh yeah, he's ok. umm... just ok? guess who just got reinstated! well, not officially.

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pushed out. either way, it did major, major damage to the relationship. >> i think that took an extreme toll on eddy more so than i think david and bobby. eddy was always the one who just wanted to have everybody be at peace together. and eddy was very upset about it. he was kind of crushed about it. it was eating at him. >> he dearly loved them, and he wanted his brothers to be together. he was just not really sure how to deal with it all. and you're just seeing a lot more kind of up and down behaviors, erratic behaviors. >> eddy's growing a beard. >> that's me! >> geez, wake the child. >> your daddy is fuzzy. >> ha ha ha ha ha! >> you're seeing a lot more unnatural highs and lows.

>> he would call people, and at bizarre hours of the evening, and then they would say, i haven't seen or heard from eddy in ten years, why is he picking up the telephone and calling me at 2:00 in the morning? you know. those are -- those are signs. >> this was just -- this was more than just somebody who needed counseling, this was really something very, very serious. >> he could be unbelievably charming. but the downswing was a lot of anger. there was just deep, deep darkness. >> manic depression, i think,

was what they eventually said. it made sense in hindsight. i didn't walk down the aisle thinking, you know, i have a man who is suffering from manic depression. people say, how could you not know? but he was so unique and so wonderful and special, you just, oh, that was eddy, you know. >> i was advised that he needed to be in a -- a facility. i mean, i felt bad that i put him through this trauma of going to a psych ward, because i had been in a psych ward and i know how hard it is. i was a kid, i spent my 16th birthday in a psych ward. >> we all were really disturbed kids. we were all under psychiatric care when we were teenagers.

>> we all had very challenging and dysfunctional teenage years. >> we'd be asked about personal -- >> one of you were involved in a murder, is that right? >> it's up to you, guys. >> no, no -- >> "people" magazine -- >> one was accused of being involved in a murder. and it was me who never met this person who was killed, never was present or anything like that. it was peer pressure. friends pressuring me into covering for them, telling a story for them to the police, and that pulled me right into it. i've never hurt anyone in my life. >> yeah. >> we know it. we can feel it. we can feel it. >> a lot of people in this study

had dysfunctional childhoods. and some mental problems. and it raises questions, you know. if -- if you are a person who's devoted your life, like dr. neubauer has, to studying mental illness, then is that a factor that you're researching? >> the story is incredible. >> this is a disney movie. >> it's a little darker than a disney movie. >> when we first met, we realized we had all these similarities. we had similar mannerisms. we both had studied film. then we also found out we both had suffered from depression. >> so this is the letter that i received from louise wise services. you were born at 12:51 p.m. on october 9, 1968, to a 29-year-old jewish single woman.

she was very intelligent with a high iq. she entered college on a merit scholarship, but emotional problems interrupted her attendance. she had a history of voluntary hospitalizations for emotional problems. although i have not been able to locate the original medical reports, secondary sources noted that your mother's diagnosis was schizophrenia. >> it was really disturbing to read that my birth mother had been in and out of institutions. i started finding out more about the other twins and triplets in the study. and it turns out that not only had many of them struggled with mental health problems, but that their birth parents had mental health issues. and their adoptive families had never been told. >> how possible is it that your mother had mental health issues?

>> um -- i don't think they were severe. i think that she was -- she may have had some minor, minor issues. um -- she may have had some -- a little bit more than minor issues. >> were the scientists purposely choosing children whose biological parent had mental illness? and placing them into different homes to see, is mental illness heritable? >> eddy was in the hospital for -- i think it was three weeks. and then he came back to work at the restaurant. i wasn't there.

david was with him all the time. i think maybe he could give you better detail about it. >> i was running the kitchen. eddy wasn't in. i was running the kitchen, he was running the front of the house. that's the way it worked. and i knew who he was. and he lived across the street. >> so david called me from the restaurant and he asked me to look out the window to see if eddy's car was in the driveway. because if it were in the driveway, we knew that he was home. so the car was in the driveway. and i said to david, do you want me to go over there? and david said yes.

>> and she called me back a few minutes later, and her voice was trembling and shaking, she said, you've got to come home. and i said, why? and she said, please, you've just got to come home. and i -- i pulled up. we lived across the street. and i pulled up kind of just -- cop cars were all there, and i just kind of pulled up, blocking half the street, left the door open, and started running into the house. and the cops grabbed me, and they wouldn't let me come in. they said, you don't want to see this, you can't see this, you don't want to see this. you don't want to see this. and that's when i knew he was gone. count on, is staying happy and healthy. so, i add protein, vitamins and minerals to my diet

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download doordash. first order, no delivery fee. i told bobby, i need to talk to you. and it's as if he kind knew. he kind of knew. before the words came out of my mouth. >> eddy committed suicide. eddy shot himself.

he took his own life. >> i don't remember who told us. i just remember darkness. >> we buried him on father's day. i gave the eulogy. and i don't remember everything i said. but i do remember saying that, my brother eddy could light up a room with his smile. >> why eddy, why eddy? why not me? i've asked myself that a hundred

times. i'd rather it was me than eddy. i don't know why eddy and why not me. maybe just because -- i don't know. i just don't know. i -- i -- i can't answer this. >> thank you, bobby. >> oh, you're welcome.

>> i'd like to know the truth about the experiment. my understanding within the small group of twins that were separated and studied, there was more than one suicide. it's almost impossible just to be a coincidence. >> given eddy's mental illness, who knows what's in their dna? >> if they have anything conclusive that is any way predicting anything in the

future that i need to know about i want to know about it. >> there's still so much that we don't know. there are more questions than i have answers. >> one of the things about being a journalist is you don't know what you're going to find out. sometimes you know what you didn't find out, which is frustrating. like with this story. >> well, i didn't get to the bottom of it because i never got to see the study. as no one has. that would be the bottom of it. but that's why this is so tantalizing. >> here's the research that i

kept from when i was writing about twins. it's been awhile since i've had a look in this box. this is interesting. mini cassettes. before he passed away, i managed to talk to dr. neubauer. he was reluctant. he had not ever spoken about it, to my knowledge. all right, let's see what he has to say. >> okay. i've got it on now. how did this study come about? >> i'll tell you, i would rather not speak about it. >> oh, really? why? >> until we have published it. >> oh, uh-huh. when do you plan to publish it?

>> well, maybe -- we have published -- in about a year, a year and a half from now. >> he was certainly elusive. he was protecting something. >> well, tell me a little bit about the scope of the study and how many people were involved in it. >> the study was only based on a small number of identical twins separated at birth. for many, many reasons, i don't want to talk about that now. we had to stop it because it was too expensive. >> who was your primary support? >> oh, some private foundations. we got some money from washington. >> okay. >> private charities and washington, what does that mean? and i don't know, you know, where the funding came from. >> okay, thanks again for your time. >> all right. >> i think that there's a great deal of sensitivity about this

story. there's a lot of powerful people who were like to have this story silenced. >> what happens to the study, as far as you're aware? >> before neubauer died this 2008, he left all the research materials in an archive at yale university. neubauer placed it under seal for decades and decades. so far as i know, nobody's been able to access it. >> uh, what do we have here? wow. this is the yale university website. and this appears to be the guide to adoption study records of the child development center. 66 boxes filled with

information. charts, films and tapes, and research findings, home visits. that's a big one. it says that the dates of the study were from 1960 to 1980. i guess our reunion kind of closed the study. information about access. the records are restricted until 2066. it's sealed. so they did all that they did to have this whole list tucked away in a dusty library somewhere. where nobody can touch it. researchers wishing to use these records before this date must secure written authorization from the jewish board of family and children's services.

the jewish board was a parent organization of the child development center run by peter neubauer. my understanding is that they're a very, very powerful organization with very deep political connections. >> thank you for calling the jewish board of family and children's services. >> hello? >> yes, hi. my name is david kellman. and apparently i was one of the subjects of a study run by the child development center many years ago. and it's being kept at yale university. and -- >> uh-huh? >> on their website it says i would need permission from the board in order to gain access to those records. and somehow the receptionist got me to you. >> huh. okay. um -- i'm not aware of any of

that stuff or when the study was, but i can -- >> there have been a number of journalists and as far as i know some of the twins that were involved in the study who have tried to gain access to this material. so far as i know, they haven't been able to see the results of this study. >> is there a way that i can go directly to someone that would be able to provide access to me, as i was one of the subjects within the study? >> if anybody should have the right to see all this material, it's the people that were actually the subject of the study. they should know what was learned. >> i mean, i have no idea who would even be the one to ask right now. i would need to look into that. >> okay, so you're the first line of defense, so to speak. >> i guess, yeah. >> okay. i will send an e-mail to you.

i'll put the subject line is going to be, twin studies. >> gotcha. >> louise wise services is long closed. peter neubauer passed away. and yet we still don't know exactly what they were looking for. or what they found out.

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this was essentially my first job. you know, you had to be careful to not let on that, gee, you look just like your twin brother. i would have been fired on the spot, right? it was a little tempting, yeah. there was a little bit of temptation. like, hey, i know your twin. i -- i saw somebody a week ago who looks exactly like you. to question whether i feel guilty is interesting. because i never felt a responsibility. i came on after this was designed.

however, i was a participant. so you could say, you know, i was ethically compromised by that. in retrospect, i think it was undoubtedly ethically wrong. i got some notes here. okay. okay. these are my actual original notes. copies of psychologicals that i did. >> who in particular are in these files? >> well, i have the triplets. hm. i'm not going to mention the name. but here's a loud, energetic boy. his need to establish his autonomy takes the form of showing off both his intelligence and his strength and putting down others, including his parents.

yeah, this one's eager to show off his new bicycle and all of his sports equipment while i filmed him. he was very intense in his play and got quite rough. this kid had some problems. hyperaggressiveness. okay, so apparently his parents are not cognizant of his problems, nor are they able to help him understand his weaknesses and establish more appropriate control over his actions. so i didn't think the parents were very tuned in to the struggles this youngster was having. what were the findings of the

study? i have no idea because i left the study after ten months, and the results were never published. all i had is my little tiny piece. it's a mystery. it's a huge loss. all this important scientific data is just buried in these archives. >> so some people have speculated that the purpose of the study, ultimate purpose, was looking at mental health. >> there was -- there was never a mention of mental health of the biological parents while i was in the study. we were not interested in mental health. that's not what we were interested in. we were looking for differences in parenting. we wanted to understand parenting practices and how they would affect development. >> so you're saying they were interested more in the family dynamics?

but they couldn't have known that, they didn't know how the family's going to interact with this newly adopted child. the only way they could possibly know about the family dynamics was that they already had a child placed in that family. >> another astonishing coincidence in this story is that each of the brothers grew up in their families with an adopted sister. all the girls now 21 years old. >> the triplets. they all had an older sibling. they were placed in families where there was an older adopted child that had been placed by louise wise. that was part of the design.

>> good to see you. >> good to see you. >> i'd just like to show you guys a clip. it's lawrence perlman, who was a researcher on the study. >> what were the findings of the study? i have no idea, because they were never published. we were looking for differences in parenting. we wanted to understand parenting practices and how it would affect development. the triplets were placed in families where there was an older adopted child that had been placed by louise wise. that was part of the design. >> how do you feel watching that? >> like a lab rat.

it -- it only just makes it that -- it just only -- it just makes it -- >> that much worse. >> duplicitous. they're not just studying the kids but they're studying the parents. >> so they did, in fact, know the parenting style of each parent. so this was not, you know -- obviously was far from a random selection. >> they knew exactly who they had chosen to place each one of us with when they called the gallands and the kellmans and the shafrans. >> in terms of how they parented their children, the three families were quite, quite different.

david's father stood out. there was nobody in the world like his son. he was so proud of him. whatever he did was wonderful. bobby's father was very busy as a doctor. and didn't have the time to be with bobby that david's father had. but was as devoted to him as possible. the most traditional was eddy's father. who was rather strict. he was the boss. he made the rules, and eddy was supposed to follow. >> eddy's relationship with his father, it couldn't have been good. and that matters. >> why do you say it couldn't

have been good? >> because otherwise, i would have known him. we would have seen him. eddy would have talked about him. ♪ take me to your best friend's house ♪ ♪ going around this roundabout ♪ ♪ oh, yeah not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪ (cat 1(cat 2) smell that?e is. (cat 1) gravy!

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♪ this was the last picture we ever had of edward. he was very gregarious. he got into all the things young boys do. he wrecked the car and a few things like that. but, i mean, occasionally i disciplined him. >> eddy and his dad were very different as people. eddy was more artsy kind of kid, you know. he wasn't into sports. elliot had a very strong militaristic kind of approach to life. very traditional. he was a teacher, he was all about punctuality.

>> i was a strict disciplinarian. and my children, unfortunately, had me as a strict disciplinarian too. >> eddy said he always sort of didn't feel like he fit in with his family. he always felt like -- like he wasn't in the right place. >> how much did you have any sense that edward was unhappy? >> he didn't discuss his problems with me. we were a rather quiet family. we didn't tell our problems to one another. we protected each other.

it was a nice family. >> some people are just not a good fit. >> it wasn't his father's fault. elliot did what he believed to be best as a parent. they were just different people. >> i got the phone call from i believe it was bobby. and he told me to sit down. and i said, no need to. and he told me about it. and then, standing right there, i went over to my wife and told her edward had committed suicide. and we stood there for quite a while crying.

and that was it. i often wonder whether i didn't teach him something. because of the way he left. and maybe i didn't teach him something. how to live life or something. that bothers me occasionally.

>> why did the boys' lives turn out completely different? i don't need to read any books. i don't need to read any studies. i saw it firsthand. with those three boys. it's all about nurture. >> these three young men, they're all seated in the same position. >> we found a lot of similarities because that's what people were looking for. they smoked the same kind of cigarettes, you say, oh my god, they're smoking marlboros, that's amazing! what you're not looking for are their differences. >> i can't get over it. i'm telling you. you all wrestled at one time? >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> we found the ways that we were alike and we emphasized

them, and we wanted to be alike. we were falling in love with each other. >> i think there were superficialities. they liked the same things, and they had similar interests. but deep down, they were different. >> they were not the case study of biology being destiny. >> i've come to believe genes and the environment are close competitors. you can say we drift in the direction our genes tell us to go. but it doesn't mean you are destined to be one person or another. >> i believe that i'm still here

today because a foundation was given to me by my parents. i believe that absolutely made the difference in terms of struggling with whatever demons i struggle with. >> i believe nature and nurture both matter. but i think nurture can overcome nearly everything.

>> because the study's never been published, we simply don't know definitively how many people's lives were separated in this fashion. >> there may be still twins out there who still don't know that they're twins. >> there's probably at least four individuals who were subjects in the study who don't know that they have a twin. >> if they know that there are still twins out there that are missing out on life, it boggles the mind. >> there's two ways of thinking about it. these people really should know that there is a twin or oh my god, these people should not know that they were used thus, it would make them so upset. maybe this is why the study cannot be published as yet. until they're gone. >> it really opens up the possibility anybody could just

walk around the corner and discover that you have a twin out there. imagine what it was like back when the rolling stones would shock parents everywhere. my, how times have changed. >> i see hustling. i see killing. that's what i rap about. >> you can take me out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto up out of me, though. >> it's a tough time to grow up in. and nirvana and kurt cobain in particular reflect the angst. >> i learned how to write for myself, and it's pretty ironic that most people related to it. >> boom, there it is, platinum record. >> country music has taken over the airwaves and the record charts. >> the honeymoon's over. now we're getting down to real commerce. >> aren't these girls just crazy? >> yeah, they are.