if people looking at me say that's a new nixon, then all i can say is, well, maybe you didn't know the old nixon. >> "tricky dick." a new cnn original series. tonight at 9:00. this is "gps," the local public square. welcome to all of you around the united states and the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, the mosque massacre in christchurch. the prime minister called it one of new zealand's darkest days. we'll bring you the latest. and brexit breakdown. what's next on theresa may's quest to pull britain out of europe? ukraine will elect a new president two weeks from today. russia has been trying new ways to cyber meddle in the elections. might this be putin's test drive

for the 2020 american polls? i'll ask the man who heads up google's sister company that monitors and counters cyber attacks. then the 2008 mumbai attacks. a city invaded by terrorists who killed scores of people but also a city that fought back. these stories and a new film, "hotel mumbai." i'll talk to the star, dave patel. first, here's my take. one of the great strengths of the democracy is that bad policies are often reversed. that's a consolation when we look at the flurry of pandering programs being enacted as the populist wave works its way through the western world. when a new government is elected, much of this can be undone. except for brexit, which if it goes through, might prove to be

the most profound and lasting legacy of this decade. britain, famous for its prudence, propriety, and punctuality, is suddenly looking like a banana republic as it makes reckless decisions, misrepresents reality, and now wants to change its own self-imposed deadline. >> as written in "the political quarterly," brexit has always been a solution in search of a problem. brexists want to leave the eu but in every other community, ero skeptics see the eu as a free market juggernaut, that's why they don't like it. all those other countries, 27 countries, have it backwards, or britain's conservative party has gone nuts. when i asked ann applebaum last week how historians would understand the road to brexit, she suggested it all centers

around the conservative party. the tories could possibly claim to be the most significant political party of the 20th century, governing britain for most of that period, producing churchill, thatcher and other iconic western statesmen. but after the cold war as left-wing parties moved away from socialism, right wing parties faced an identity crisis. in america, this mobilized the republicans to emphasize social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights and immigration. in britain, tories found themselves in the same mushy middle that prime ministers tony blair inhabited. so they went radical on europe. we're all weary of the drama. >> no! >> division! >> keep in mind, brexit will be a disaster. britain's economy is competitive and productive only in high value manufacturing and in services, both of which depend on a deeply integrated market within europe. the foreign policy might prove

to be even more consequential. within a few years, scotland and northern ireland will probably loosen their ties to britain in order to maintain their association with europe. the united kingdom will then be reduced to just england and tiny wales. london, a city that has shaped global affairs for 250 years, will become the west's dubai, a place where lots of money sloshs around but of no great geopolitical consequence. britain has been a crucial voice in the community for free markets, openness, efficiency and an outward-looking foreign policy. it has a powerful army that it deploys. as nonwestern countries like china rise, the central question of international relations is, can the international system built by the west that has produced peace and prosperity for 75 years last, or will the rise of china and india and the revival of russia erode it and return us to what

has been called the jungle of international life marked by nationalism, protectionism, and war? the world order as we know it was built over two centuries during the reigns of two liberal anglo superpowers, britain and the united states. brexit will mark the end of britain's role as a great power. and i wonder whether it will also mark the day that the west, as a political and strategic entity, began to crumble. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. we will get back to brexit in a bit. first, the massacre in christchurch, new zealand. the death toll is now up to 50. to put the number in perspective, more people were killed in one hour on friday in two mosques in christchurch than

were killed in all of new zealand in 2017. new zealand's prime minister has vowed to change her country's gun laws and her cabinet is meeting tomorrow to start those discussions. joining me now to discuss are dana miliband, the president and ceo of the international rescue committee. he was the uk's foreign secretary from 2007 to 2010. the ceo of the think tank new america. she was a top official in hillary clinton's state department. and ian bremmer is the founder and president of the eurasia group, a global risk consultancy. let me start with the big picture on new zealand. and donald trump was trying to suggest something. i want to ask you, ian, whether it's true, which is, this is not a big deal in the sense that it is not a global phenomenon. i think that, again, he was implying it's not like islamic terrorism which is, you know, a widespread phenomenon with many centers, states that have promoted it over the years.

these are one-off events, and while they're terrible and tragic, i think that's what trump was trying to get at. is that a fair point? >> it's not a fair point if you look at the united states itself in the last ten years, if you want to look at all of the extremist violence in the u.s. 70% of those attacks have been carried out by white supremacists on the right. there is still of course a danger of islamic terrorism in the united states. globally, the numbers are much more tilted towards islamic terrorism. most of that violence, a staggering, overwhelming number is muslim terrorism on other muslims. >> within syria, for example. once you take out those numbers, the numbers go way down. >> absolutely. if the argument is that the united states has overspent and overhyped fear about extremist violence and terrorism as a whole post-9/11, the answer

to that is certainly, yes, in the context of what else we could be spending that money on. but i'm pretty sure that's not the message president trump was trying to put across to his supporters last week. >> david, what does one do about this? you have some segment of the white population that is enraged by immigration, by what they see as a changing culture. how should politicians deal with this? >> the first thing, the numbers you cited at the beginning are shocking. but the most terrible thing about this week is that in some ways we shouldn't be shocked. we had the attack on the mosque, we had the attack on the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. this is a global movement, founded on hate, on the idea that western societies are being, quote, unquote, invaded by other people. and that says you've got to think both about defense. you've got to think about how do you make sure that you track these people, that you find them, that you ensure that the gun laws are of the appropriate kind?

but you've also got to play offense because their hateful ideology, what hope not hate, an organization in the uk dedicated to what these essentially fascist organizations are up to, what they're talking about is an ecosystem of far-right hate. that takes offense, if you're going to break it up and it doesn't become a global movement. i want to say this as well. i don't think people know that, to my knowledge, most of the effort of western security services is now dedicated towards the danger of far right extremism, more effort dedicated to far right extremism and its potentially violent impact than it is to islamic terrorism. and, obviously, they feed off each other. and that's the other element of this that i think we have to watch. >> the ecosystem of hate, as david says, have you been surprised by how many of these kind of groups there are in the united states, in europe, and places like australia and new zealand? >> no, because this is, it's a movement. it's a white power movement. it is a terrorist movement that has a common both ideology and

methodology. and it's very deliberately trying to fly under the radar by portraying people as lone wolves, as disturbed individuals, when actually they are in touch and they're also citing each other. the shooter in new zealand cited the norwegian shooting, cited dylann roof in charleston. at least in the united states, we simply have not paid enough attention to white supremacist violence, white power. we pay much more attention on the left. but as ian said, 70% of the attacks in the united states since 9/11 have been extremist violence on the right. >> what do you make of the manifesto? >> we've talked a little bit in the united states, everybody said he's been inspired by president trump. 74 pages, there's one reference to president trump, where he says that he likes what he's doing in terms of supporting whites but also doesn't support

his policies. overwhelmingly he's talking about europe. this was a person radicalized much more inside europe, inside france. he goes after merkel, says merkel is enemy number one,g calls for the death of erdogan. the level of identity politics. the most popular nonfiction literature a few years ago was "the submission" which was all about the muslims taking over. if you really want to talk about where some of these ideas have been germ nainated and explodin around the world, it's not from the united states, even though we like to think it's all about us. it's from europe. that's where the problems were. >> we'll have to come back to all of this later. when we come back, we'll talk about brexit and what the hell happens next. the way they subscribe to movies. we don't follow the naysayers.

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it was an extraordinary week in british politics. for those keeping score at home, this week members of parliament voted down prime minister may's second try at a brexit deal, against the possibility of a second referendum, and voted to ask the eu to delay the deadline for brexit, which is now just 12 days away. david, you're the brit here. what is going to happen on tuesday? >> first of all, you called my country a banana republic in your introduction. i must say that grieves me very, very deeply. this is not a laughing matter, for all that you are enjoying this, because the truth is that the referendum that was held

three years ago has driven a stake into the heart of parliamentary representative democracy. it's left mps not knowing what their job is. is it to use their judgment in the best interests of the country or was it to follow the direction of the people that itself was completely unclear in its meaning? so where we are now, and another distinguished commentator in the world today called britain a global joke, so you're not alone in this. where we are today is that mrs. may has said if you don't follow me, then i'm afraid there's a gun on the table, you're going to have to blow your brains out. i still think there's better than even chance that she'll get her deal on tuesday or conceivably wednesday. >> and that deal means? >> that's exactly the right question. it means britain will leave but it does not define the future relationship of britain and the european union. all the arguments made against the second referendum, that it will prolong the agony and fuel the far right, all those things

will happen as mrs. may's, quote, unquote, deal, is shown to be only a quarter of the way towards the long-term relationship britain needs on economics, security policy, all the rest of it. what mrs. may's deal offers is more agony for britain. the parliamentary arithmetic, plus, i have to say, the real fear of the labor leadership of going in for another referendum, means she's likely to get it and that will only presage further real trouble for the uk economically. there's already been an economic cost. but also politically. >> when you were at the state department, you dealt a lot with your european counterparts. how do you think the europeans are looking at all this and looking at britain go through a kind of national trauma/suicide? >> i think with amazement, it's watching britain essentially commit suicide as a power, as your column makes clear.

on the other hand, they're saying this is the cautionary tale. many europeans say this will actually strengthen the eu, because we talk about a grexit and frexit and every conceivable version of that. but looking at how hard it is and what it's doing to business confidence actually means it's strengthening the rest of the eu. on the other hand, it's a terrible thing because the eu will be weaker without britain. and just watching a country self-destruct. >> ian, distinguished scholar wrote this in the fd. at the end of the day, they cannot leave, the economic logic is too compelling. and you will end up with a norway-type situation where there is some association with europe. they will accept most of the rules. bizarrely, they won't have a vote. it's a slightly worst deal for britain but life will go on.

is that the most likely outcome? >> the other side of david's call, where may will get her deal in the run-up to the final deadline is that they decide they can't get that because of a longer extension is plausible. it goes beyond the term limits of european parliamentary elections, a nine-month, 12, some even say 21-month delay. what we've seen from parliamentarians in the uk, to the extent you can avoid the final day and taking tough decisions that you personally don't want to be responsible for, just like in the u.s., you're willing to do that. i think that's reasonably likely. i will also say most of the real pain of brexit is already being experienced. the uk has already lost a lot of that credibility, its capacity to be a global and european leader. a lot of the jobs have already gone away. the trajectory of the uk economy has already deteriorated compared to the eu economy. as we get through not just these votes but the additional years of working out how that transition actually occurs, the other shoe that we're all

waiting to drop will have slowly, slowly hit the ground. >> david, why is the left not playing a role here of saying, we demand a second referendum, we will campaign on it, britain's future is inexorably tied to europe? what happened to the labour party? >> there are two reasons. the first reason is some of the labor leaders themselves are extremely skeptical about the european. jeremy corbyn spoke against joining the european union. there's a, quote, unquote globalization crowd who believes britain should put up the shutters and build an economy at home. the second reason is fear of electoral consequences. two-thirds or 77% of labor voters voted to stay in the european union but a significant number of labor seats voted to leave the european union. my former constituency had never

elected since 1832. no tory had been elected since 1832 but it voted 65% to leave. among some labor figures there's a fear of the electoral consequences of being seen to deny the electorate what they voted for. i spent three years as foreign minister arguing against a referendum. between 2007 and 2010. why? i quoted mrs. thatcher, referendums are the refuge of dictators and demagogues and in a parliamentary democracy you risk a referendum -- not just risking the result but risking a representative, democratic process. that's what britain is struggling with today. >> but now you think the only way to undo the ill effects of the referendum is to have a second referendum? >> paradoxically. you can't stop the brexit process simply by annulling it. it will take a doubling down. and i would say this, which is important, in ireland, deep questions of national identity, around abortion, gay rights, have been solved with

referendums and really have involved a doubling down on democratic and populous to try to mitigate that demagogic, dictatorial process. >> fascinating. next on "gps," how did america go from having almost the top life expectancy in the world to among the worst among developed nations in the world today? sanjay gupta has a fascinating report on exactly that. i became an engineer because of them. now i'm at verizon building a powerful 5g experience for america. we call it 5g ultra wideband. when i think of where people might go with it... i think of them. (man over radio) ...go for landing. ♪

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show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. and now for our "what in the world" segment. one of the experts in dr. sanjay gupta's new hbo documentary tell him that health gives us a measure of how we're doing as a society. if that's the case, american society is in trouble. take just two statistics. life expectancy has been on the decline in america for the last three years. that hasn't happened in 100 years, the documentary points out. then there's this. in the 1960s, the film says, americans had among the highest leaf expectancy in the world. now it ranks toward the bottom

of the list of major developed countries. sanjay is chief medical correspondent as well a practical brain surgeon. he's diagnosed the heart of the problem in a new film called "one nation under stress," it premiers 9:00 p.m. eastern on hbo march 25th. sanjay, among blacks mortality rates are declining. it's not hispanic. it's whites, mostly between 45 and 54, mostly with a high school but not a college education. and you say that what that tells us is that this medical problem is caused by essentially inequality and dashed expectations. >> yeah, that's really it. when you look at these numbers you just quoted, fareed, it's

worth pointing out, first of all, look at the other wealthy nations around the world that may have gone through some of the challenges, ups and downs of the labor economy. they don't have the same problems, their mortality rates continue to go down, life expectancy goes up. what is specific to the united states, what is specific to whites and what is specific to the white working class, as you said, fareed? this idea that these are the sons and daughters of the greatest generation. the idea was they were supposed to inherit the earth, or at least inherit the united states at least at a minimum. that did not happen. automation, outsourcing, jobs left, wages went down and now they find themselves dying at that faster rate, fareed, than any other cohort in the world. again, compared to developed nations, compared to other populations within the united states. the white working class in particular continues to decrease

in life expectancy. >> this idea of dashed expectations causes a psychological trauma that's actually well documented. there's this amazing monkey study you show in the documentary. >> yeah, we wanted to approach this from a sociological angle but also a developmental biology angle. this particular experiment, you have two monkeys, capuchin monkeys. they're doing a task and they get a reward, a cucumber, over and over again. eventually, the monkey on the right receives a grape, a more desirable treat. the one on the left recognizes this, gets a cucumber again, sniffs at it and throws it back at the examiner. they were perfectly happy with the cucumber over and over again but now the glaring inequality, the glaring injustice is obviously causing stress levels in that monkey on the left because they now see that inequality face-to-face. what's interesting as you think

about this experiment, fareed, stress levels went up in the monkey on the left. subsequent experiments show the stress levels go up for the monkey on the right as well. no matter where you are on the spectrum, it turns out, living in a society that has glaring inequality is bad. it's unstable. it's unsettling. and it's stressful. that's part of what we saw. >> you have a friend, you guys grew up in michigan together, and you say he's a middle class kind of guy and yet he is more stressed than you, a brain surgeon who also has a cnn job. explain how that could be. >> people tend to equate businessness and the amount of work that you have to do with stress. that's actually not as big a predictor, we found, of the sort of toxic stress that we're talking about. when you're sort of middle management or middle class, whatever, first of all, you could easily become upwardly mobile but you can also become downwardly mobile.

you constantly have this sort of feeling of, you don't know where you're going to go. that loss of control, that inability to feel autonomous with regard to your own destiny, that turns out to be very, very stressful as well. so people often think of the very poor, people living on the fringe, as having the most stress, and for lots of reasons they do, but if you're constantly worried about coming down or going up, you're not sure which, for my friend frankie, that's probably the most stressful thing in his life. >> fascinating. sanjay gupta, thank you so much for joining us. make sure to watch the documentary. >> thank you, fareed. >> "one nation under stress" premiers on hbo on march 25th at 9:00 p.m. next on "gps," ukrainians will go to the polls in two weeks' time to elect a president. russia is already meddling in the election. will the vote be hacked? and what can america learn as it prepares for its 2020 election? back with that story in a moment.

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when ukrainians go to elect their first president on march 31st, two weeks from today, they will be faced with a list that started at 44 candidates and is now somewhere south of 40. the top contender is a comedian. that is not a joke. the current president poroshenko is close behind, as is his vice president. also named poroshenko. many observers believe one of the candidates is there to siphon votes away from another candidate with the same name. there are lessons to be learned as america prepares for its own presidential election next year. jared cohen joins me now, a former top state department official who runs jigsaw, which is google's sister company that,

among other things, works to combat fake news and hack attacks. it's sort of like google's geostrategic arm. you are the ceo. why would you go to ukraine of all countries? >> fareed, first of all thank you for having me. the question i would ask is why would i not go to ukraine? ukraine is an innovation hub for the most nefarious cyber activity happening in the world. you have innovation in disinformation, hacking traditional infrastructure. in addition to the deployment the these attacks in a military context. >> why now in ukraine? >> we're all thinking about how do we protect democratic institutions? how do we make sure there's not a repeat of 2016 in 2020? in my view there is nothing that russia won't do to the u.s. that they won't do first in ukraine, and worse. we won't solve the problem by just analyzing the president or just looking backwards. we have to forecast what's going to happen. if i'm going to forecast what's going to happen, my goal is to find the places that our adversaries are using as target

practice. >> so what did you learn? you went to ukraine. you've been to the part of the eastern ukraine that is sort of occupy bid the russians. what did you learn about what they're doing? >> first, we saw a number of tactics we've never seen before. we're seeing the systematic and customized targeting of disinformation on messaging platforms. it's very clear to me that the new front for disinformation is platforms where the barrier of entry is a phone number. it's much more believable if somebody is in your contacts list, you get information from them, you're much more likely to believe it. we're seeing the manipulation of audio and spoofing of phone calls. we're seeing manufactured revenge, manufactured hacking of e-mails that get dumped onto the public domain. we're seeing a growing ecosystem of illicit merchants who are selling these capabilities on

the deep and dark web. >> when i hear all this, it sounds very difficult to figure out how to counter it. do you think the american government is on top of this? do you think the trump administration is sufficiently attentive to it? >> what's interesting about ukraine, we care about protecting the election but ukraine is an important foreign policy priority. if we connect the two, we look at building resilience in the ukraine as an effective way to protect our own election. ukraine has world class engineering talent and also understands geopolitics just because of where they live, israel being the other example. the problem is civil society doesn't have the technology expertise. all the engineers want to work in e-commerce and they're losing the commercial advantage to belarus right next door. if you look at what the u.s. government can do, the u.s. government has lots of mechanisms to support civil society, lots of resources to support civil society. and it does it all around the world. but the u.s. government can

bring those two ecosystems together and build world class companies, invest in world class capabilities to fight disinformation in ukraine. this is already happening with cybersecurity. all of us rely on top world class talent for dealing with hacking and traditional cybersecurity issues in ukraine because they're the best in the world. the same, too, can be true for disinformation. >> is the trump administration sort of attentive enough to how maligned russia is? let me ask you, does it strike you this is all coming out of russia, out of the kremlin, and the attempt is to delegitimize the ukrainian election? >> there is certainly an attempt to delegitimize the ukrainian election, particularly at a moment when the russians don't have a chance of having their candidate win, running too low in the polls. on the one hand you have democracy working pretty well in ukraine right now because nobody knows who's going to get to the second round, let alone who is going to win.

on the other hand that ambiguity makes it more of a target for russia. what we're also seeing is the democratization of these capabilities. the iranians were all of a sudden making similar attempts in the u.s. midterm elections. we've seen other countries get into the game. russia has a particular focus on ukraine. but the capabilities are going to be on full display for other countries to latch onto. there are certainly plenty of countries out there that have an interest and incentive to disrupt the u.s. presidential elections. let me switch to the attacks and just ask you, you watched the new zealand attacks, of course. and you hear about how much of it was an online fen om phenomenon. the terrorists were in some sense fed the stuff online. they posted online. then they broadcast online. does social media have a responsibility? how should we think about that

online component? >> well, of course they have a responsibility. as i look at the horrific attacks in new zealand, there's a long tradition of deeply disturbed people espousing hatred and engaging in violent acts in response. what's different in the social media era is the access that they have to niche communities that aren't constrained by geography. and the access they have to instant superficial internet fame. those two incentives are new in the era of social media. >> and sometimes, some of those niches that the internet has created are wonderful things, it allows all the stamp collectors of the world to kind of reinforce each other and gain camaraderie. but it also provides this dark side for people who are demented. >> the internet, to me, is still net positive. i'm an optimist. we need to not disregard all the benefits of the internet, but we need to pay attention to the moments where wrooer seeing a darker side. >> fascinating. jared cohen, pleasure to have

you on. >> thank you, fareed. next on "gps," the inside story of an earlier terror attack, now a feature film, "hotel mumbai," all about the heroes of the 2008 attack on that city. i'll talk to the star, dave patel, and the writer and director, when we come back. >> with as many as a thousand guests and over 500 staff trapped inside. there's little rest for a single dad, and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid, plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. ♪ pardon the interruption but this is big! now with t-mobile get the samsung galaxy s10e included

with unlimited data for just $40 a month. so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. numbers are great. and seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. that's what i call a body of proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,

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on november 26th, 2008, ten members of the pakistan militant group arrived on the shores of mumbai. they stunned the city with a series of attacks, reporting to commanders back in pakistan during a rampage that lasted for three days, the terrorists killed more than 160 people and

wounded hundreds more. this was a personal story for me. the terrorist's last stand was at the taj mahal hotel where my mother had an office. luckily, he was out of town that day. featuring phone calls intercepted by indian intelligence services between the terrorists and their commanders in pakistan. now the story is being told again. this time in a new hollywood film, hotel mumbai which intertwines the story of the terrorists that wanted a payday for their families, the guests at the hotel and the brave hotel staff that stayed behind to help. it is a story about the very worst and a very best of humanity. >> i have been here 35 years.

this is my home. >> premiering nationwide on march 29th. i'm joined by one of the film stars and it's co-writer and director. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. >> what did you learn about the terrorists? what strikes me about the portrayal, which is remarkable and vivid and accurate is that they are so calm in the way they go in and soughter people, much like you hear about the new zealand attacks, you know. was it a particular type of training? were they naive? what motivated them? >> we went through 3,000 pages of documents from the trial. >> from the one surviving terrorist. >> the one surviving gunman. and it was over many months, not just the final tenter errorists that made it into mumbai. there were 100 young men from

impoverished parts of pakistan that were brought into training camps and they whittled them down by who could take an order and who could be relied upon to, you know, to continue the attacks. and, yeah, more than anything else, i think, you know, what became really clear through reading these transcripts and through listening to what had happened live, a play-by-play account through these intercepts the indian security forces made was, you know, was just how strong the brainwashing was. they had, you know -- yeah, it was a very difficult time. >> and you portray one thing which i remember being truly life, they had never seen a hotel of this kind before. some of them had actually never seen flushing toilets. >> that's the thing. it was huge. they were easy to radicalize.

>> why do you -- are you portrayed as a seat? was that a conscious decision? >> i think that was one of our first meetings of anthony. part of it was wanting to stretch myself as an actor and kind of govern and embody a different kind of performing space, but also i read these articles during september 11th about these seat cabdrivers that were being targeted and just the ignorance to what the culture represented, who they were was striking to me. i pitched it to anthony because this hotel, essentially, is a microcosm of india. you have got the rich. you have got the poor. you have got the staff members. you have billionaires coming in from other countries. and when the terrorists strike this one place, you are able to

have a discussion and break down barriers of naivety. that's what he stands for there, a religious man who holds his religion at his forefront but uses it to guide him to help other people. >> what did you learn about the hotel staff? one of the most extraordinary things about the whole mumbai attacks was the motel staff, which is, you know, kind of a private sector, but a great hotel, respond with this incredible sense of public, you know, civic mindedness towards the guests. the police, the actual public sector, it is basically a hopeless job. you guys portray them a little better than was the reality. but the staff was incredible. did you spend time with them? >> i spent time at the taj. that's where i saw waiters and staff members wearing turbines. yeah. there is a slogan in the kitchens which we bring up in

the script which is guest is god and the level of service and the level of gratitude they have. this place is sacred to them. it represents a place to getting to work in a place which i think is one of the first places to have electricity in mumbai. so it was a beacon of real aspiration to the people and they -- you know, we read accounts in the transcripts of waiters and staff members putting on baking trays and arming themselves with meat cleavers and running out in front of ak-47 fire to save others which takes my breath away. >> the example of the staff is why i wanted to do the film. when i first heard about the attacks i couldn't understand their response. i couldn't understand how it wasn't just one or two staff members who chose to stay

unmassed with no prior organization or communication, they decided as a group to stay to remain to protect one another and to protect their guests. it was even the case that once the bullets were flying and the bones were dropping, you had some staff members who had made it outside who had shepherded guests outside and went back in and turned back in. would you do that? i don't know if i would. and your audience are interested, they could go and google the business review where a team of psychologists from harvard went to the taj to try and examine what is it about the culture of the taj that creates the environment that allow this is to happen. it is extraordinary. >> or they could just watch a movie. >> even better. even better still. >> anthony, thank you so much. and thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. everyone looked up at the sky, in awe...

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