. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. >> we'll start at the mexican border. president trump has gone back and forth what he wants to do with it. david and i have diver's advice for him on getting immigration right. also, nato turns 70 and faces threats from russia and some would say america.

i'll talk to the secretary general how he intends to encounter these challenges and the response to the massacre in christ church has been widely praised, prime minister teresa may's leadership has been widely panned. do women have a distinct and different leadership style? i'll ask the great tina brown. here is my take, president trump's threat to close the u.s. mexico border confused even his allies. >> we will close the damn border. we'll give them a one-year warning and if the drugs don't stop or largely stop, we're going to put tariffs and if that doesn't stop the drugs, we close the border. i don't think we'll ever have to close the border. i may shut it down at some point. >> on the broader issue of legal

immigration, trump seems to be shifting his position. in his 2019 state of the union address, the president declared. >> i want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever but they have to come in legally. >> immigration hard liners did not take this well but the president has since reasserted the idea the day after the state of the union trump told reporters, i need people coming in because we need people to run the factories and plants and companies that are moving back in, and poll litico reported ja kushner is trying to increase legal immigration into the united states. if this is trump's new and improved immigration policy, the president might find his way to a powerful compromise. real crack downs with reform and increases in legal immigration. it also happens to be a smart policy idea. a new essay in the journal

international security points out by 2050, the united states is projected to be the only major world power with an increase in population. they tie this fact to die nynam growth and playing a major military and political role worldwide. the data on major powers is striking. u.n. projections show by 2050, china and russia will have a 20% drop in people of working age. germany's working age population will drop by 17%. japan's by 29%. this will translate into slower growth, less economic vitality and great eer world stage. america's working age numbers are set to rise by 12% in the same period. in fact, only three other major developed country wills see increases in the working age cohort. australia, canada and britain

and all four countries enjoy this boost because of immigration. china on track to be the greatest economic political and technology competitor to the united states faces a democratic challenge that he's more dire than previously anticipated. in 2018, china's birthrate fell to the lowest level since 1961, a year of wide spread famine. it appears the efforts to reverse the nation's long-standing one child policy have simply not worked. amid the noise about immigration, it's easy to forget the big picture. immigration means a more robust economy. it usually means younger workers, which translates into greater invasion. remember, most noble prizes are awarded to scientist for work they did when young. most companies are founded by people when they are young. if you look over the last two decades, many of america's crucial competitive advantages

have been copied by the world to the point other nations often do it newer and better. i think of well regulated market economics, technology investments, infrastructure, mass education. what does america have left to distinguish itself? well, over the last half century, the u.s. has handled immigration better than most other countries. it takes in people from everywhere, integrates them into the fabric of society and is able to maintain an environment the new immigrants feel as invested as the old. this will probably be america's core competitive advantage in this century. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed. let's get started.

i wanted to talk more about immigration from david who wrote on the topic from the atlantic. it's the story from the current issue. i don't agree with the article but that doesn't stop me from admiring it and the author. david joins me now. welcome back to the show. >> thank you so much, fareed. >> before we get to the article and the conclusions you come to, i want to ask you about the situation at the border right now. the asylum seekers, help us understand, you know, the big picture, how should we think about asylum seekers in today's world in the united states? >> well, the laws about asylum grew up after world war ii with an eye to people fleeing nazi persecution. these were treaties between nations and laws within nations that said if you were the victim or the target of purse cushiers your state, you should get refuge in another country. they are not being persecuted as

individuals and not persecuted necessarily at all who are victims of poverty or crime. the people coming from central america are fleeing disorder in their country. if that's grounds for asylum, there are hundreds of millions, if not billions of asylum seekers. one of the things that americans need to keep in mind is the disorder in central america that initially drove some of the asylum seeking is down by between half and 75% since 2013. thanks in part to the aid that president trump wants to cut off. this is very much a poll because of the american economy, people looking for work who can blame them for that but not anything like the authors of treaties in world war ii had in mind. >> so explain perhaps the most controversial line in the cover story where you say if liberals insist only borders, voters will

elect fastest to do that, explain what you mean by that idea. >> one of the drivers of this story is we have seen a rise of authoritari authoritarian populist. you talked about this a lot. in hungary and poland, the rise of populast parties. a lot of these feelings drive the brexit move and helped to elect president donald trump. immigration is not the only cause of these movements. it's not the only source of the strength but often the trigger and in reaction to them, i think has driven people to support liberal democratic institutions to take positions much more extreme than a decade ago. we see that very much in the present democratic race. the defending job is what voters have done and count on pop ti s

politicians have done. demagogues become demagogues and talk about people care about that no one else will address. >> let's get to the part of the article, you say that the united states should fairly dramatically reduce legal immigration. >> yes. i think one of the things we need to accept and your introducti introduction, your take at the beginning of this is a good example. immigration is not yes or no. it's how much and who. 70% of the legal immigrants that come to this country, you and i are both legal immigrants, a job americans won't do apparently. 70% almost of the legal immigrants to the united states are coming because they are the relatives of somebody already here. only about a 30% are coming because the united states economy needs them. so first is the question of who you take and second, how many. you need immigration at a

minimum to keep your population stable and you want to recruit talent from around the planet. you could do those things with the numbers that prevailed in the 1980s with legal numbers about half and while enforcing effectively laws against illegal immigration and while admitting genuine asylum seekers but not allowing economic immigrants to rebrand themselves as asylum seekers. >> let me ask you. you've probably seen that kevin has a chart, which he did before he started to work for donald trump in the white house where he points out that the united states is racial off new immigrants to existing population is very low. it's the third lowest in the industrialized world, way lower than countries like germany, canada, and what that suggestions to me is look, we're in a new world where these older western industry jeized countri need young workers. they need fresh blood. we are going to have to take more immigrants and there are

going to be tensions and there is going to be a difficulty and we have to figure out how to asemilate them. if we don't let immigrants in, we won't have any of these problems doesn't seem the solution. >> well, this points to the complexity and often the tragedy of this issue. you're not wrong about anything you say, but paradoxly, the economies that need immigrants the most are the societies that can accommodate and adjust to them least well. kevin is right that relative to the stock of population, the flow of immigration today is less than it was, say, at the late 19th century but back then because americans were having so many children of their own, even through the peak immigration years while the united states was taking more immigrants relative to population than now, t the ratio of foreign born was dropping because americans were having lots of americans of

their own. it will exceed the peak of foreign born people in 1890 and will rise forever. the answer isn't to stop it and certainly isn't to say there is some other time we can take a time travel machine and return to, but what we do need to do is develop policies for where we are now. >> always interesting to hear from you, david. thank you so much. >> thank you. next, nato at 70 under pressure from the east and some say from the west from putin and trump. i'll talk to the secretary general when we come back. tremfya® can help adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to

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on wednesday, he became the first ever secretary general to address a joint meeting of congress, and the four prior years, only four people had addressed such meetings, the

pope, modi, macron and shinzo abe. it was on the 70th anniversary after withering criticism off the alliance from donald trump. from the campaign trail, trump called nato obsolete as president he complained european members don't contranscriibute to the cause and said to aids he wanted to pull america out of it. joining me now, nato secretary general. welcome, sir. >> thank you so much. >> let me ask you about a report that was presented by douglas lute in serving the leaders of nato countries across europe, he came to the conclusion and this is part of a study, he came to the conclusion the single greatest challenge to nato is the sense that the president of the united states is not

committed to the alliance. >> well, president trump has stated again and again that he is a strong supporter of nato. he did that this week in the white house. he did that in the state of the union speech, and he did that when he met the older nato leaders at the nato summit in brussels last july, and this commitment to nato is under pinned by actions because opposite to what many people believe, the united states is not reducing their presence in europe but united states is increasing their military presence in europe with more troops and more exercises and more preposition to equipment. so the united states is committed to nato in words and in deeds and this is good for europe but also good for united states because a strong nato is also good for united states, and through nato, the united states gets more friends and more allies than any other power and

that's important for the united states. >> let me ask you about the response to your speech and to the anniversary from russia. they said that the nato has had a record post cold war and sited afghanistan, iraq and the prime minister said we would like to wish the alliance inner peace and less nervousness and we hope it avoids focussing on obsession and phobia. do you think there is a danger nato is obsessing about russia? >> no, because nato is pursuing what we call a dual track approach to russia. we have to be united and strong. we need events to send a clear message if one ally is attacked, then the whole alliance will respond. this is based on the nato's core idea of all for one sand one fo

all. we don't think there is a conthere dictico contradiction between the defense and dialogue. we need to talk to russia, we do talk to russia partly to try to improve our relationship with russia but also to manage a difficult relationship to avoid inciden incidents, accidents, miscalculations that can create really dangerous situations spiral out of control, therefore we talk to russia on this issue and lastly, we need to talk on arm's control because they are deploying new missiles in europe in violation of corner stone arm's control treaty. >> let me ask you about the other threat to nato and people talk about president trump's lack of commitment to it. across europe there is a new breed of leader that is emerging

populist leaders that are sometimes quite pro-russian and against the european union. how dangerous is that trend that we're seeing? . nato is the alliance of 29. different geography and different political leaders and yes, there are disagreements between nato allies on several issues but we have had these disagreements before. in 1956 withdraw france from the military cooperation in 1866 or iraq war in 2003. >> despite all these differences, we have always been able to overcome them to protect and defend and i'm confident we're able to do that again and yes there are differences.

as long as they remain unsold, they stand together on security and what we see is europe north america do more together in nato than many years. i disagreements on trade and as long as they remain unsolved, we are able to deliver strong nato where nato allies are doing more together. >> that's a pleasure to have you on, sir. >> thank you so much. >> next on "gps" i'll take you to a country i used to point to as an oasis where democracy and religion co-existed peacefully but it's a country that appears to be changing in a troubling way when we come back.

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tar yes m -- athor tar yindonesia where m and democracy have co-existed for years but things appear to be changing. a new politicized hard line version of islam is gaining ground capitalized in part by the growing influence of saudi arabia and its money. that hard line strain has already taken its toll on the upcoming national elections this month where the incumbent faces a tough challenge a moderate when he was elected in 2014, he drew comparisons to president obama as a relative unknown who inspired hope. he is not the first choice for many islam hard liners who power assented. there is no more revealing moment of the growing power that the largest protest in history. as the journalist writes in the new york review of books, the unrest happened during the 2016 campaign for reelection of the

governor whose nickname is ihok. he is also a christian. in a 2016 speech he said the koran does not require muslums to vote for muslim candidates. a report by the institute for policy details how a diver's network of groups pounced on this statement. they rallied followers against him accusing him after rid k ridiculing their religion and according to researchers, preachers said support for him would bar their entry into heaven. organizers stoked resentment against the ethnic chinese, many of whom belong to the business class. the movement reached its apex in december of 2016 when more than 700,000 indy nonesia people flod

the streets. the government against the democratic principles were growing religious intolerance so who was behind this massive display. one of the main organizers was a camera ready saudi educated activist with more than a million instagram followers. he represents the guard of conservative islam in indonesia. she promote a version of islam that's spread through the muslum world with the help of saudi money. through schools and the media, the goal is to transform society for generations to come. in april 2017, he lost the elections. in may he was convicted of a crime and handed a two-year prison sentence. no matter what happens, it transforms politics. he picked as the running mate a

conservative clergy that played a critical role in the protest against the former governor. but the protests also changed the public before the agitation 42% of indonesia muslims believe only muslims should hold political office. that's bad enough, last year well after the protests died down, it was more than 54% according to the fourth coming research scott sites. what all of this shows is that religion is emerging as a new fourth line of identity politics in indonesia says peter mumford of the group. indonesia has been a moderate model in a chaotic authoritarian and dysfunctional muslim world. these trends threaten all of that. next on "gps" what would a world run by women look like? better than our current world run mostly by men? it's a question tina brown has been thinking about. i'll talk to her when we come back.

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peace be upon you and peace upon all of us. >> addressing parliament in the wake of last year's massacre in christ church. her actions were prize in many quarters. gun control legislation in days and had tmany immigrants, they are us. my next guest says leadership and actions are indicative of a fact of life. quote, women have evolved to do what the intractable proflexties of life and find means of peaceful co-existence where men have traditionally found roads of conflict. tina brown was the editor of the "daily beast" and founder of

women in the world that holds the tenth annual summit next week. welcome. >> good to be here. >> let me ask you about male leadership in your country of origin. the way brexit is handled and this has come up feels like a lot of schoolboys jufighting fo power and attention and the key players went to the same party and schools. this comes up a lot in british politics. >> it should frankly because brexit only came about because upper class men decided to settle political issues by holding a referendum without any plan b and what had actually happened and they were stunned, another bunch of upper class men

messed it up leaving absolute chaos in their country and teresa may was never meant to be the leader of england. she was the last one standing on the glass cliff of dover. she really was. she was just left there so he took control and proved very incompetent but you can't say she's the one to blame, they are. >> you know, may represents something i think you elude to. she comes out of a conservative party where you have to as a woman act like a man. sort of margaret thatcher style. >> she's still of that generation that's been trying to be appropriate and seem as if she's a leader and be reserved and not talk about her leadership as a woman. we're seeing a new generation that prime minister arden is a wonderful example who are sort

of owning their defense as women. there is women's wisdom which is something belittled because women are seen as lesser and women were always the caregivers looking after the children but of course, that's what gave them and has given them an ability to delay gratification and act like the grownups in the room. nancy pelosi, mother and grandmother is an example of that power with her muscular mind and feminine flair and walk. she's able to rally her caucus by saying calm down. calm down. she administers her committee time out and treats and gets everybody like a brute of children. >> frankly, in foreign affairs many years ago what if women ruled the world. there was biology that suggested women were less competitive,

less mind lessly status or giend are rooted in science and you feel like that's born out in reality now. >> it can be. let's not forget there are women, a leader of a kind. i wouldn't say when they were plenty of bad women leaders but there is a moment we're tired of men circling the drain bully boy politics, strong men rising and the behavior. it's a moment when we see a longing for a different way of being of which arden was an example. two years ago she was just the young woman leader who had a child in office. now she's become a global icon with this act of instantaneous leadership that is a woman's want coming forward. >> what do you find ten years with the great women in the

world conference, are you finding that women are now more comfortable talking about the issues and wanting a different leadership. what are the lessons you learned. >> it's interesting because the women we had on the stage over the last ten years, we had four or 5,000 women. they are peacemakers and politicians. they have a great strength and pack ti practicality that is a willingness to break the molds and do something different. we had on our stage last year an australian sea captain that went off and rescued migrants in the ocean and felicia sanders, she had a child killed by dylann roof in the church and she was so out of it, she brought this peaceful spirit of saying i want

to use this experience to do things together instead of break them apart. we saw the first female mayor of chicago who is also black and guy skp and really blown up the political machine and a 45-year-old lawyer and many of these women have not been in politics before. it's as if there is a spirit since the election and hillary's loss where women are being pushed out to own their power in a different way like they are in the space chute and bresuit and their way to politics and it's exciting. >> thanks for being here. >> thank you. up next, michael lewis has a

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a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! attack, the institutions that held up this country for more than two countries are being assaultedda. it's the institutions that help to ensure fairness in america that have been taking the most incoming fire. the ref roues both the literal one ounce the playing field and

the courts that is the thesis of the pod cast series called "against the rules." he's the mega best selling author of those such as "the blind side." welcome. >> thanks for having me back. >> this came to you because of your kids sports? >> it started with that. it started with the appalling ways and it was like the first thing -- the first point of curiosity is why would anybody do this job? really lit a fire under the idea was the financial crisis. and that's where i started to kind of keep notes and sort of address the big question, why at the same time that lots after

americans have a sense of things are rigged is this character who is there to ensure fairness the neutral third party under assault and he is. >> part of it seems to be the feeling that americans have that that neutral third party isn't actually neutral, that the game is sort of stacked in someway. >> i think there are a few things going on, one is in situations where there is real inequality like, i don't know, consumer finance where on one side you have big banks and on the other side you have lots of not organized consumers. the powerful players put their fingers on the scale. they interfere with the ref but there is a feeling like people can't be neutral and it comes from a lot of different places but just this notion that people are inherently bias. it comes out of social science and the book i wrote about two

psychologists, they explored the way that when people make judgments, they make systematic eras. that work is filtered into the popular conscience and they don't believe humans can play this role. >> what is remarkable is the solution to the problems of unfairness is to strengthen the referee. it's to strengthen the neutral third party but there are all these forces that are alive in the land to undermine the authority of the referee. i mean, you talk to judges for example. there is an episode on judges and they say look, judicial independence is in a way it's never been before. this is a dictator saying no, the courts aren't independent you do what the government says. it's the twitter mob coming after a judge because they don't like a particular ruling without any saying why the ruling was.

it's investigation into personal lives in ways it's never happened before in some cases maybe for the better but the point the forces that are out there that might attack or undermine judicial authority are getting all kinds of strength and they have new sources of strength and there isn't any corresponding source. >> telling the story about judges, you went to a strange place. explain. [ laughter ] >> so i didn't go. i wanted to just dramatize for an american audience. just how valuable and how they should cherish this thing we have called judicial independence. it doesn't exist every place and in cultures that haven't had it, they never had a situation where the judge could actually rule on the basis of the law. the judge was assigned a conclusion with the case and the

conclusion was if the prosecutor said you were guilty, you were guilty. no one ever acquitted. it isn't so that once you change the rules and say now you're independent, the judges behave in an independent way, that comes to them naturally. they have to learn the behavior. so the -- if you lose it, the point is, if you lose this thing, the independence of the ref, the strength of the judge of the referee is hard to get it back. >> is there a solution to the culture of skepticism and sen s referee? >> it's a great question. what do you do about it? one answer, is there are places where technology will solve the problem. in sports, they solve the problem of the strike zone in baseball by essentially putting a pitch track machine out there and force the umpire to conform to it. so that's one solution but it's not a satisfying one because in

most of the places, technology is not going to solve the problem. >> technology can give you the objective answer but there is a lot of life that's a subjective call. >> yes, then you're thrown back on a question of cultural norms and social norms. you need for example a political leader that will sell the importance of government regulation and have people understand if the positive case isn't made and understood what you're going to have is you know all these little tragedies that result from an unfair system caused by the absence of a referee. >> michael lewis, always a pleasure. >> thanks for having me. >> we'll be back. if you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield

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. we all know american tech giants dominate conversation about the world's biggest companies but we learned something new about the competition this week and brings me to my question, what is the world's most profitable company? apple, alibaba, kponl mobiexxon saudi aramco. i wish everyone would read this book. it's a fact-based defense of the vir f virtues of an open economy. for the last look, 900 million voters. 10 million election officials, 1 million polling stations, this is the indian general election. the world's largest exercise in

democracy. it will begin on thursday and in order to accommodate the needs of the electret will take place in seven stages over six weeks. during that time, election workers will span out across the country carrying electronic voting machines to remote mountain villages and tiny water logged islands. they will hike in the mountains, take boats through the mangroves and ride elephants to ensure that every voter has access. you see the law dictates there be a polling place within two kilometers of every indian home. in 2009, a polling place was even set up in the forest for a single voter. this will become one of history's most expensive elections. estimates say candidates are spend a whooping 7 billion. india often falls short of the principles but every five years, the mechanics of parliamentary

election remind us how much this country has invested in democracy. the answer to my gps challenge is d, saudi aramco. for the first time this week it shun a light on a profit of $111 billion last year. that is nearly double the next most profitable company in the world, apple that made a $59 billion profit. the state owned oil company released this financial information ahead of a bond sale. that money will purchase the huge stake in a chemical company currently controlled by the saudi fund freeing up $70 billion inhe ambitious plan and this deal will distance from the whims of the oil market, they revealed in 2016, a year of low oil prices, the company's profits were $13

billion. they also highlighted some of what the company sees as risks to success which ranged from the rise of renewable energy and ge events like public unrest or terrorist attacks. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. hey, i'm brian stelter. time for reliable sources. the look of the story behind the story. how the media works and the news gets made and how all of us can help make it better. how the fox media empire is used as a political weapon. one executive speaking out why he left murdoch world. his first tv interview this hour. the mystery involving this international women of courage ceremony. we'll introduce you to one honor yea honor, a journalist uninvite