>> fascinating stuff. >> thanks for having me. >> the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris, cuomo primetime starts now. >> thank you, anderson. welcome to primetime. break the law and according to sources this president told the now acting head of dhs, if there's trouble, i'll pardon you. is that making america great again? also illegal, threatening to punish his political rivals by dumping bus loads of migrants into their sanctuary cities. today after the white house assured it wasn't happening, president trump insisted he is strongly considering it. what are the implications? we'll bring in cuomo's court into session for that and the president lashes out at congresswoman omar's comments on 9/11, a video that some lawmakers are saying is putting her life in danger. did he cross the line? is there any such thing for him? let's get after it.

so according to senior administration officials, this president spoke to his cbp commissioner last week in calexico, california about blocking asylum seekers from entering our country. if you do that, it's illegal. if you get in trouble and go to jail, the president supposedly pardons. he said if you do that and you get in trouble, i will pardon you. that's the reporting. kevin is now the homeland security chief. they said he wasn't asked to do anything illegal but how is it not wrong if not illegal? let's go to the better minds. cuomo's court is in session. jimmy, i start with you on this. if that's what happened, make it happen, well, it's illegal. don't worry. i'll pardon you if they give you any trouble.

>> dhs denied that ever happened or denied that they ever pressured or asked to do anything illegal. >> not that it never happened but that he wasn't pressured to do anything illegal. >> they were never pressured or asked to do anything illegal. so to the extent that the executive branch wants to order one of its agents to do something, there's a process. it's called executive orders. the president just doesn't willie nilly ask customs or border protection to do something. there's a process by which that takes place but secondly let's think about this for a second. in the rio grande valley alone, 162,000 apprehensions last year border crossings. >> out of control. >> this year alone, 147,000 this year, up to 250,000 and you think about the issues there, we talked about the sanctuary cities. the strain on these local municipalities along the border are tremendous and the problems that occur are tremendous. and democrats and republicans for years have done nothing at

all. congress and the president need to come up with reasonable reform. maybe the president said something out of frustration and maybe he said it off the cuff but we know that's not how things happen in government. there's an executive order and that will be challenge. just like we have seem time and time again. >> i have two segments about how this conversation falls into a pattern 6 to 10 examples deep of the president doing exactly this. outwardly attacking the rule of law or something people to go around it and say don't worry, i'll take care of you. what makes it wrong? what does the president have to do to make it wrong. we know that larry believes this is impeachable. all right. let's dismiss him as the one off. what's the line for you?

if you don't want to dismiss it, what's the line? >> this is what we call an abuse of power. and everyone watching the show right now should pull up on their smartphone or computer the declaration of independence of the united states and read through the grievances that the founding fathers had against king george iii and many of them will sound familiar including some of the things that we're seeing today. these are tyrannical acts. when you try to obstruct a law passed by congress because you don't like it or you don't think it's good policy, it's the executive's role under the constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. not to order people to break the law. the pardon power as alexander hamilton noted in the federalist

papers was to relieve people of unfortunate guilt. it's not to get them out of trouble after you ordered them to break the law. these are just -- they're such blatant abuses of power. we're sitting by and watching it happen and it's going to be a segment on your show and tomorrow we'll move on to the next thing and i think people need to wake up. >> you're not impressed? >> that sounds like a whole lot of drama to me. i think the president said something off the cuff tongue and cheek. who knows what he was getting at if he said it at all. they denied they were ever asked to do anything illegal. so this whole argument that it's tyrannical is ludicrous because they said they weren't asked to do anything illegal or pressured to do anything illegal. let's take that at face value and you have no tyranny or constitutional crisis. why is the sky falling now?

>> because the idea of him doing this again. once again saying i know there's a rule -- >> but what did he do? >> just hear me out about it? what did we hear about him with nielson? i'm going to close the border. don't do that. it's not only problematic in terms of process but it's legally problematic. i'm going to do it anyway. i want to do separation of kids more than ever. you signed an executive order saying that is over. we don't do that anymore and then a join injoined us. i want to do it anyway. i want to dump these detainees. in sanctuary cities. no you can't do that. it's ripe for legal challenge. i'm going to do it anyway. that's what he keeps doing and it's not political -- >> it's political saber rattling. we can argue all day whether it's the right tone or whether it's the right thing to say but the bottom line is that's not tyrannical or violating the constitution. what he is doing is political saber rattling to get folks to

the table to try to deal with this issue. >> does that make you feel better? it's just words. it's just him saying it. he's living rent free in your head once again. you took it way too serious? >> no this is not just a one off. he was displeased with kirstjen nielsen because she said there were things she could not do because of the law. he does not respect the law and jim, i don't see how as a lawyer, as a member of this profession that you can dismiss this as being an off the cuff or a joke. if you're a heart surgeon, you don't joke about cutting the wrong artery. >> i never said it was a joke. do you know what's a joke? the fact that congress hasn't come to the table with anything of any use as it relates to immigration. >> what does that have to do -- >> that's a joke. >> this is a serious issue. >> that's the policy issue.

>> talk about the president saying things that he shouldn't say. >> words matter. >> words do matter. >> there hasn't been an executive order to violate the law. that doesn't happen. i want to take it as a suggestion. >> it does happen. he does it on a regular basis. that's why it makes people upset because they see it as part of a pattern and people like you that want to support him. >> and courts, and courts that can call it out -- >> courts that he calls rigged. judges that he accuses of an amous. if they're ethnic and judges -- >> they're still there, they have the same -- >> that doesn't make it okay. >> the power has not changed. >> the idea that congress should

do something, i'm in on that 100%. i can't believe that the democrats haven't jumped at this opportunity for them here. the president thought the fence would be the fix. it isn't. the system is overwhelmed in a way that the fence will never solve. everybody knows it. he's doing nothing even with an emergency declaration where he could use the military and build tent cities. instead of dumping them in sanctuary cities. he's not doing it because he's all about the fence and nothing else. the democrats are doing nothing either but jimmy to your point, instead of saying congress sucks all the time, why doesn't he reach out to congress? why doesn't he make some of the deals that he promised us he would as the best deal maker we have ever had as president. why isn't he do that? >> he sat in the office with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer because congress wasn't willing to come to the table. >> they made a deal with him.

and they walked away from it. >> no, that's not -- there was a deal on the table long before that one where the democrats just walked away. >> no, he walked away and you know it. you're a little out of your depth on this one. you're a lawyer and you're not a political pundant. >> you're wrong. >> that had to do with the budget deal. but there was another time when they were in his office to talk about immigration and they put a real plan on the table and the democrats walked away from it. >> not true. >> it happened. i'll talk to you about it off the line if you want. final word to you. >> this is an important policy argument but shouldn't distract from the gravity of what the president said which is a legal and constitutional issue. >> 100%. >> but on the policy side i'll say this, first of all when we see what he wants to do with

taking these immigrants and putting them in the sanctuary cities, it's only going to encourage more people to come we can see this is not about finding a solution. this is about punishing political enemies. it isn't about maintaining a crisis and if he solves it there's no crisis and then you don't get to fear monger and do all of these things. >> that's why he doesn't show you pictures the kids. you can't show a picture of a kid's face and say build a wall. i get it. >> it wasn't fair for me to say you were out of your depth. you know i have tremendous respect for you and personal affection. he's got the emergency declaration. she'll beat me 9.5 out of ten that it's not legal. he shouldn't have done it. i'm not making that case. he has it now. why doesn't he use it to address the needs of resources and

further requirements of what the cbp are begging them for? why isn't he doing it? why isn't he building the accommodations that he could with the order? why. >> the cbs has also asked for some measure and i'm not saying -- we'll call it a border wall or whatever you want to call it but some type of physical barrier has to be part of that and the administration -- >> why are you making it either or? >> i don't think it has to be either or, chris. >> why isn't he doing it? >> i agree with you -- >> i don't know you'll have to ask the president that. >> i wish i could. >> they're certainly a bridge that could help this problem but it's not going to solve the problem. the only thing that's going to solve the problem is if the democrats come to the table with something real. >> the president can address what they need right now himself. >> it's going to solve all the problems. >> no. >> it would deal with their current laws -- >> wouldn't have to dump people in sanctuary cities. >> wouldn't have to dump people

in sanctuary cities if he built accommodations. >> when we can be focussing on real criminal issues. >> he can get them more manpower. i'm bringing you in as the judge. we have shifted. it's now me versus jimmy. doesn't the emergency declaration allow this president to pick pockets to give more resources for judges, staffing and to mobilize the military like the army core of engineers to build temporary shelters which they do magically in just days to accommodate any overflow? >> that's right. any statute can be activated and that includes finding resources to do these other things. she does not like the law. you can add more judges. he knows when it comes to -- >> he said get rid of the

judges. >> more judges aren't going to solve the problem. >> he said get rid of the judges. >> that's how you ajudicate the cases. it's going to get worse and worse and worse. more people, more people, more people. so now we're going to continue to throw money at it, throw money at it instead of trying to solve the problem. >> you increase your capabilities. >> that doesn't make sense. >> what do you do when you're running a company? >> he declared a national emergency. >> okay. look. i'm not saying that congress shouldn't address the rules. i'm not saying that congress shouldn't address the rules, they should have a partner to do it and this president doesn't lead on that and i'm saying he could be doing things now that he isn't and i believe it's because the worse it gets he thinks the better it is for him. well argued. >> absolutely. >> jimmy always appreciate you on this show. have a great weekend. we can disagree but i love having them on. i love better minds. i love going at these ideas. you can challenge the facts, you can challenge the rationals but

it's the right conversation to have because that situation is only getting worse. now, why do i think it's okay to tee up a discussion about this latest example of the president saying yeah, i don't care what the law is and if you get in trouble i'll pardon you? because it's not the first time he's done it. i'll show you how it fits into a pattern of very disturbing behavior in this regard. and we have the head of the dnc here. how is his party going to respond to the president if he makes good on his threat? what does he think about the video the president put out? painting representative omar as someone that doesn't care about 9/11. next. ♪

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very simple promise. listen. >> we must restore integrity and the rule of law. >> restore the rule of law. >> we can restore the rule of law. >> we have to restore the rule of law no, now we have to restore the rule of law because he told the head of cbp that he should do something that should violate the rule of law. if he got in trouble there would be a pardon waiting for him. one calls this an impeachable abuse of power. what we know for sure is its the latest in a series of acts that proves this president does not respect the law as he should. the day before this news word came he was pushing for a plan to dump sanction ware cities. despite being tole it was potentially illegal. the plan is still an option the same day the white house said the plan was never real. this flouting of the wall who

swore to restore it is a constant. this is a constant. whether it was reportedly ordering james mattis to assassinate a foreign leader, telling jim comey to back off michael flynn. ordering gary cohen to shutdown the at&t merger. or judging decisions. or just decisions he doesn't agree with. he tried to peddle that the florez settlement was suspect because a law, suspect that way because the judge was mexican. he thought flores referred to the judge. the plaintiff was named florez. his insistence on disrespecting the law is such that those that work for him had to have to regularly disregard him. >> i have to say i understand what you want to do but you can't do it that way. it violates the law. >> that's the former secretary of state. as for those that don't say no, remember michael cohen. he's going to jail for crimes

committed at the president's direction. here's the real problem. potus he has the power to pardon. his acting dhs head would be far from the first-person he dangled a get out of jail free card for doing his bidding and when he does use the pardon power, he tends to go around the normal procedure. the first pardon went to arizona sheriff arpaio. this week makes another thing clear, those who push back are no longer in place. instead from his ag to treasury secretary and every post in between potus surrounded himself with those that make his protection their primary purpose. so that's why we call it out. now the main question is whether or not the president is abusing his powers. this time on social media in an attack of an opponent. it's a great debate on a very controversial new post, next.

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♪ ♪ xfinity watchathon week. television is back! ♪ now through april 14, enjoy free access to the best shows and movies from hbo, showtime, epix and more.

what! so, you can get more into what you're into. whether it's more laughs, oops. epic escapes, or high-flying thrills, get more into what you're into. just say "watchathon" into your x1 voice remote, or download the xfinity stream app. xfinity watchathon week, free. now through april 14. the president tweeted out this video. calling out congressman omar. founded after 9/11 because they realize that some people did something. >> you have no idea. >> another plane just hit. >> some people did something. >> oh my goodness. there was smoke pouring off the pentagon.

>> some people did something. >> it just flew straight into it. >> first i want to put some people did something in context. here's the fuller statement. >> far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second class citizen. care was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties. >> so it's not as dismissive as it's being portrayed but is the ad fair? now i want to bring in for a great debate paul and ken.

i apologize to the families of the victims of 9/11 and people that were there that day. that video should not be used in political hit ads. i'm using it to make a point. i didn't make the ad. if i thought about it more i don't think i'd even play the ad. i apologize to you. i don't mean to revisit your nightmares. i'm sorry if that's the effect it has. now putting that to the side, ken, fair or unfair? >> completely fair, particularly in the context of omar's other statements that her own fellow democrats ran an anti-semitism resolution through congress in reaction to her statements so when you look at it in the context of other things that she has said, just like you looked at the president's comments in light of other things he has said earlier in the show, it looks like an entirely fair add and it is a painful thing to see but it really did happen and it was terrible. it was the worst attack on

american soil in history and she just called it something. it wasn't even something terrible. it wasn't anything along those lines. she didn't even characterize it badly -- >> let me bounce that to paul. >> to the extent she had a good point, there's a silver libertarian concerns about all the reactions after 9/11 but her characterization of what happened after 9/11 is entirely fair game and ridiculously understated given the horror that drove it and the damage done. >> right point, wrong way. key phrase, ridiculously understated the gravity of 9/11. fair criticism, paul? >> it's obscene for the president to take that pain and get gain from it. i have problems with things omar has said. it was outrageous and she has apologized.

president trump needs to apologize for this. we all remember that, i had friends on that plane. for him to politicize it. after his record. look at what our president has said. before the bodies had been cleared or identified, before the wounded had been treated he went on television in new york and he said my building at 40th on wall street is now the tallest building in america. bragged about it. it wasn't true and it was bad taste. he spread a lie that muslims in jersey city new jersey were dancing and partying and celebrating. that was a lie. he told people that he paid hundreds of people to clear the rubble and really risk their health as so many heros did after 9 slk 11, there's no evidence he ever did it. so this guy has no moral

standing ever to try to use our greatest in my lifetime of national pain for political gain. >> i just think maybe it should be a no-go zone. if somebody says something about 9 eleven. we call them out if they disrespect the day, i don't know who would do that in elected politics in america and think they're going to survive politically but when you tie a political criticism to those images and they ran those images full and long, that's really powerful stuff. too much to make a point that i'm not disagreeing with you on. >> yeah. i agree with you with respect to sensitivity but it doesn't mean it's off limits. she made these comments. these made these comments and for the president to jump on her for the ridiculous characterization -- >> but how you jump on her. how. you can jump on her a hundred ways. if you wanted to jump on her you wouldn't -- >> and in a broader sense -- well, i would make the comment about what she said.

i probably wouldn't make an add. >> that's what i'm saying. >> but he's in reelect mode and there a large swath of america that includes me that is concerned about the anti-semitic direction of the democratic party. the so called progressive base. part of the base that she is part of. >> i just called out congressman omar for that comment she made and for which she has apologized. you going to call out donald trump for putting out a picture of hillary clinton with a star of david by her and pile of cash attacking her or for going to the republican jewish coalition and using all of those same anti-semitic tropes? about jews and money and politics are you going to call him out?

>> back in the primary when i was supporting ted cruz we dealt with this and the american people filtered through it all. he got $2 billion worth of air time and the american people made their decision. we don't have a traditional president here and he is going to keep hammering and hammering in ways we have never seen a president do and probably never will again and that's the way he operates and the american people knew what they were getting. when they elected donald trump. and the people of omar's district knew what they were getting when they elected her as well and they're going to go at it over issues like this until one of them is no longer in office. >> but can you call out her and not him, why? >> i have -- chris will tell you -- i have repeatedly disagreed with the president on a variety of points and on how he characterizes his own perspective. i am not going to call him out on this. i do not think he is out of

bounds on this. i think it's -- chris is right, it's a sensitive issue but it's not off limits. this is not talking about other americans as if they're nazis using that language that i've seen get more common in the last couple of years from the left and the media accepts it now where it used to be an off limits subject for everybody in the world except iran. and now it's not. we have been creeping in this direction. i do think the president is part of the harsher tone of discussion but he didn't start this. he got in and took advantage of it -- >> that's the point though. >> if you want to take advantage of division and people's vulnerability that's fine but he could have made this point that you don't talk about 9 lsh 11 as something that happened. that may be what you see but not how americans see it in general. you can do that without reminding us of one of if not the darkest day in america's

history. with long images of these things people deal with. still with great difficulty. but we said enough on this. i appreciate you keeping the tone straight on this. ken as always, welcome addition on primetime and let me just say it again i will never use video like that as part of a political ad again. i don't care if it's positive. about how far we have come. i'm not going to show those images of that day. i know what they mean to the families. this happened quickly with this video, i won't do it again. the head of the democratic party is going to be here tonight and he believes that his party has come up with a way to deal with what we were just talking about. the president's ability to throw out quick shots and change the dialogue and play on division. he does destructive and he believes he has a new system within his party to combat it all across the country.

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listen, the border situation is not an easy place to play to political advantage. there's a crisis down there. i don't believe it's the one that the president has been selling you and it's not about terrorists and drug dealers running across. it's a humanitarian crisis of kids and families and now as it continues and he doesn't address it and congress done, they're all going to have to own it. okay? now what are the democrats going to do about it? what is their individual response going to be and how is the party going to deal with it? on the second we have the perfect guest to get answers from. the head of the dnc.

tom perez, chairman. good to see you, sir. >> always great to be with you, chris. >> the pleasure is mine. let's deal with this video first. i'm not showing it. do not put it up again. omar did not show requiz sit sensitivity to 9/11. some people did something. not the way to talk about 9/11. i gave her the benefit of context. i showed the whole part of her speech about it. the way the president talked about it we just debated. what is your take on what she said? >> we have 571 days until the most important election of our lifetime. we have health care on the ballot and wages on the ballot and democracy on the ballot and what donald trump wants to do is distract people. he doesn't want to talk about health care because he doesn't have a plan other than to take away people's health care.

he doesn't want to talk about what matters most. the distraction of 2018 was caravans because they didn't want to talk about health care and what voters want to know, chris, and this is what we're getting at at the democratic party, what voters want to know is who has my back. who can i trust to keep promises? that is why he wants to talk about these issues. he is hoping for the 570 days we talk about congress. not the fact democrats believe healthcare is a right for all and we'll keep our promise and have your back where as he has a knife in your back. we are keeping our promises to make sure that this economy works for everyone and not just for a few at the top. and he has passed the most reckless tax cut in american history. >> i hear you on the issues.

nobody will ever give you more time or your candidates more time to discuss them than my show will. i promise you that because it matters. however so does 9/11 and having a member of your ranks that deals with it that way, some people did something and i gave her the benefit of full context, isn't that something that you should have a comment on as opposed to just seeing it as a distraction? >> everybody remembers where they were on 9/11. i remember exactly where i was and i saw -- we all lived this. it was the worst day of our lifetimes and one of the two or three worst days in american history and we should never forget that and we never be forget that but as paul correctly pointed out we saw what donald trump was saying on that same day, bragging again inaccurately that his building was now the tallest building in new york.

talking about what people were doing in jersey city. so these comments, we must all again understand the legacy of 9/11 and the backlash that occurred post 9/11 against so many people not only of muslim faith but one of the first murders of a sikh american. mistaken for muslims. so we saw so many unspeakable tragedies and i will tell you as someone that stood up after that murder, george w. bush that said we are not at war with islam. and he was inequivocal in that statement. >> this president is very different about it. i hear you on it. >> he didn't start this round about it. it's about her comments. not the first one she has made. i have invited her on the show. i'd love for her to explain herself about it.

that's why i asked her a couple of different times to opine on it. his ability to distract and have the media pick up on what he's doing instead of what you want to talk about, you put together something organizational that you say will go across the country to help with this during the campaign and keep people focused on facts and on the real issues. what? >> it's our dnc war room. you go to at dnc war room on twitter and what we're doing is localizing the impact of donald trump. we're telling the story in southern ohio. before the election he got right in front of the bridge that connects northern kentucky and southern ohio. it's one of the worst bridges in america. he says i'm going to build a new bridge. i'll fix that. it doesn't happen. he says i do not see a plant closing. you will not see a plant closing under my watch and then we have

real people talking about the impact. i will not touch medicaid. i will not touch medicare and you see the trail of broken promises and by the way, this trail of broken promises runs across every state and we have been documenting it from new hampshire down to florida over to promises made in nevada and elsewhere and i believe it's really important to localize the impact here to tell that story. every time he's at a rally there's another 20 lies and what we're doing is holding him accountable and telling these stories not through the lenses of the dnc but through the lenses of the real people. the harly worker in kansas city. who lost his job. kimberly-clark got a billion dollars in tax breaks. they gave the vast majority of shareholders. it and then layed off 5,500 workers. we're telling the story through the lenses of these workers

because people want to know in 571 days who has my back and who has a knife in my back. democrats are fighting for your health care. we're fighting to make sure the economy works for you. we're fighting on tax day to make sure that you have more money in your pockets. not just people that are wealthy and we're telling these stories everywhere. at dnc war room and you'll see localized stories across the country. that's what is going to get people to the polls. understanding who is going to make my day-to-day life better? that's what we're talking about. >> the more the campaign is about policies and who says they're going to deliver on what that matters to people, the better. i think some of my hair will grow back if that happens. thank you very much for joining me. >> that's two of us, chris. >> well, let's not get crazy. thank you very much. i appreciate you taking on the question. >> always good to be with you, chris. >> as we all know it's impossible to physically be in two or three places at the same time, right? but not virtually impossible. why am i making this weird segway?

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this is a good one. there's 18 democrats running in 2020. but only one trying to campaign like this. entrepreneur andrew yang debuted his dance with the late rapper tupac in there. it's not one hologram it's two. retail politicking is all about reaching out and making connections with people. what do you think about holograms? >> i'm open to anything. it's the future. you know how they have the overflow room and people are speaking and you can watch them

on the monitors? maybe it will help in those situations but i don't think anything beats being there in person and letting people see you, right? >> the whole reason these men and women kill themselves going across the country is so that people can get some exposure to them. i don't know how you access that. it's cool. it will make him different. i just don't know if it helps the connection. >> but it helps him be in a lot of people at one time and some people may be fascinated by it. last night i had julian castro and i said are you exhausted? how do you feel? he said it's tough. he has kids and he has a marriage and family and all of that. he said this is just the beginning. >> and he has a twin. he could send his brother out. >> that is the perfect hologram. every once in awhile you're like a broken clock. you're right sometimes. at least once a day. >> my man is here tonight, mario. he said he was playing ball with you before? >> i had a surprise.

how do you know? >> my son is here. >> check this out. do you see that? this is young. watch this. >> move like shaq. >> don't count him out. don't count him out. watch this move. you have to watch this move. he's way better than you. >> come over and watch this. this is you. >> check him out. check him out. >> that's a felony. that's a felony. that's a felony. mario, why did you do uncle don like that? he's very happy with himself. >> i have to tell you, you always brag. you think my mother likes you more than me. >> she said it. >> she's had so many years of me and she's done. you have two kids in your family, your own kids who like me more than you, the first thing he said when he saw me, oh, hey, and then he comes, dad, all right, i'm done, get out of here. >> i'm easy to dislike. somebody's got to work to find a reason to the to like you. the kids like you, especially

when they pick your pocket and go and dunk on you in a one-on-one. >> i've got to check my wallet, if he did, he got it from you. mario, see you later. i'll see you guys this weekend. this whole pence-buttigieg thing, he's gaining in the polls. a lot of people are talking about this him versus the vice president, the vice president saying this is a first amendment issue, it's not a first amendment issue. right, this is about treating people decently. this is about policies. this is about repairative therapy. the vice president is trying to couch it in that. that's not what it is. it's a convenient excuse to go against the constitution that all of us were were created equal. >> equal protection. >> equal production. but it is not first amendment. first amendment does not allow

you to discriminate against fellow americans. >> he's saying he has the right to have his beliefs but he's forgetting about that church and state clause. you're not supposed to be putting policies together that are just for your faith. >> we'll talk about that. i'll see you the top of the hour. i'm going to play more basketball. send him out here. >> you need the practice. >> i also need the exercise. >> you said that, not me. never been more right. what's not an illusion? listen, why i brought this up, i don't try to create issues on this show. you know that. we try to explore what is obvious and what's going on. what the president is doing vis-a-vis the law matters. it's not a one off, not just a distraction, not something he said but didn't mean, it keeps happening again and again. i'll take you through the argument, you make the judgment, next.

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it has become clear that this president acts as if he is neither subject to nor needs the respect of the law. the proof is extensive, as recent as today when we saw that in cnn's reporting he instructed a man who is now the acting chief of homeland security to block asylum seekers. that would be against the law. now, you can write that off as this potus maybe being ignorant of the law. or not meaning it until you hear what he said next. that if the official got in trouble with the law, trump would pardon him. this conversation happened on the same trip where the president said this. >> our country is full. our area's full. the sector is full. can't take you anymore. i'm sorry. can't happen. so turn around. that's the way it is. >> it's not the way it is. that's illegal.

change the laws, but that's illegal. immigrants arriving at our borders have a right to apply for asylum. change the law. but that's the law. this was on the same trip where he supposedly told other workers there to ignore the law and tell judges the country is full just before it was reported that the president wanted to separate families more than ever after signing an executive order outlawing the practice of separation. and he said this after a court adjoined the practice. then came a plan of closing the border and getting sideways with the former dhs secretary when she told him it was illegal. legal experts and counsel warned him off the idea as being ripe for legal challenges. the white house then said the plan would not happen. today, just hours after that the president said he is considering the plan anyway. the only more obvious sign of contempt for the law is how the president disrespects individual

judges, ascribing anamous on the basis of their ethnicity, even when the name he's attacking doesn't belong to the judge. the flores settlement. the president wrote off the deal by saying judge flores was a mexican. flores was the plaintiff, the person suing, not the judge. cases don't get named after judges. there are many more examples. but the argument is made. this has to be something that we can all agree on, left and right must come together on something reasonable. the president has to respect the laws and faithfully execute them. it's in the constitution. he raises his right hand. he makes the oath. that's his job. he doesn't have to like what laws are passed. or what decisions are made. or the people who make them. but there must be respect for the institutions and our disagreement about them must be based in logic and decency. he can, and in fact, should on

immigration work to change the laws he doesn't like. don't just blame congress, reach out to them. you're supposed to be the best dealmaker ever, make a deal. our president cannot ask people to break the law and promise them a pardon if it goes wrong. he can't attack the legitimacy of our courts out of convenience. he cannot insist on plans that he knows to be illegal. none of us is above the law. including him. and especially now, not him. this is not twitter talk. this is not a rabid rally. not hot takes on a hot mic, not a distraction, this is real and pernicious and a pattern of this president believing no matter what the rule he can abuse it. that is dangerous. our institutions are strong, but they're not immune to attack, they're not invulnerable. there must be a line not to cross. and a president thinking that he can have people break the law to

do his bidding and then pardon his way out of it is a line no president should cross. i hope you all agree on that. oh, he was only joking. then why does he disrespect the institutions we rely on so often? he would never pardon someone like that. really? he already did. arpaio, the sheriff who disobeyed a court in an immigration matter. it was a misdemeanor, but still he pardoned him. this is real, this isn't talk. this isn't a rabbit hole. it matters and it leads into a potential contagion for us, what if this president decides that rules just don't apply to him and he can do it anyway and he gets a group of apologists around him. that's what we have to watch for, that's why it must be called out. and that's why i do it tonight. thank you for watching, "cnn tonight" with d. lemon starts right now. >> hey, chris. >> hey, don. >> don't you think he's already decided or thinks he's above the