>> we'll have to see what they're following. of course it's a very complicated matter with the president having over 500 different entities all flowing up through the holding corporations and he wants to see the extent to which they're conducting this examination or if they're conducting this information of the president's returns. >> congressman, i appreciate your time. we'll continue to watch this. thank you. >> anderson, thank you very much. >> the news continues, i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo primetime. >> thank you. i am chris cuomo and welcome to primetime. it's 3:00 a.m. in paris where our lady of paris sits ravaged by fire. 13 million a year come to her. one of the most recognizable symbols of christianity. an aspirational symbol that withstood centuries. this may be her biggest test. new info on what happened and when and how but the story is about what happened next and i

think it matters more than anything else that we're waiting on later this week or arguing about in the moment there's much to be said and understood and done. what do you say? let's get after it. >> it's in paris but they're not just parisians. it's a catholic place of worship. this is something that effects people the world over. 856 years of history and so much more up in flames people with awe inspiring images. and of course there's the believers, christians, especially catholics starting the most important week of the year, rebirth and renewal this

is the image. the conspire of this cathedral consumed by what looked like hell fire. a powerful painful image one so many will never forget. thank god we're not just measuring it in terms of human cost. that place is a crucible. a stone z acting as an on for all inside. we're lucky it wasn't palm sunday. the source of the inferno is unknown. it could be linked to renovation work to fix the historic stone walls. that would not be unusual.

it's a very common experience, but it's under investigation so we don't know. the location matters. our lady sits on an island in the historic heart of paris in the middle of the river. first reports of smoke and flame just before 6:00 p.m. local time. people kept commenting, you're going to hear this, on what termed like a delay. where were the sirens? where were the people coming? where was the help. that island has few bridges. they're not wide. it's rush hour. boats can get there and pump water but they can't get that close that quickly. so after the evacuation there was an empty desperation of waiting during which time the 315 foot conspire collapsed around 7:59 p.m.. the flames grew into an inferno. we have to talk about that tonight. was the fire just isolated in the top or feeding it's way up? fed by all the wood and the air

in the nave. that's the main part of the church before the alter and it would make the fire feed up toward surrounding scaffolding in a wood sub ceiling that is just food for flames. the fire chief said there was concern for collapse because without the roof even stone walls can fall and if they fell out there could be a different order of magnitude in terms of damage. when the bells fall they take the towers with them. questions were echoing all across the world. but then the flames started to lower and we saw these lights that i want to show you. this was the only relief i had today. up in one of the towers where the bells are there were little white lights all of a sudden and we knew the firefighters would now reach there so the flames were gone. they were able to walk up there. there was some integrity to it. that maybe the bells wouldn't fall and take the towers with them. we know that teams managed to

salvage an unknown quantity of pressure relics but the main ones we heard were secreted to a safe location. what is believed to be part of jesus's crown of thorns. part of his actual cross. there's a heavy, heavy item for catholics and christians. now we know that stuff is safe and the mayor tweeted it tonight. it's not just stuff. this could have been human cost. what we worry about most in terms of things seem to be okay. the twin bell towers first constructed in the 13th century. they were recently replaced. 2013 i think. this made this cathedral the tallest structure in paris until the completion of the eiffel tower in the 19th century. after world war i notre dame bells range loudly. she has been there for so much

history and so many sought solace within her walls during that war and beyond and more recent times during the attacks in 2015, the bells rang out again and masses gathered for prayer. i was there among others. many of whom were not believers. this is more than a cathedral. it's more than a symbol for the religious. it's more than another museum in nurp. th -- europe. this is an aspirational symbol of beauty and devotion to somebody bigger than ourselves and this fire happens at a time that those she means the most to need her most. there's a lot to discuss about the past, what happened today and our future. let's bring in an associate professor of fire science. always a pleasure. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you very much. we get the significance measured so many ways but i want to help people understand a lot of this got rushed through in the moment.

why this happened now obviously there was an intensity. explain it a little bit. it seemed so significant but on the inside hollow with a ton of air and old wood. what does that mean? >> from a firefightering perspective this is a classic church fire. 19th century back 5 or 600 years earlier. the key thing that we see is that there was probably renovation work going on. >> scaffolding. >> which means that's really a potential reason why this has happened today. we have to make sure that intentional acts weren't here and we had things like that and numerous fires in churches over the years and they all come out basically this way because the

fuel load is way up in the air and the firefighters can't get to it quickly and of course again it's all wood. >> there's a ton of air in what they saw the nave. >> our understanding is this was metal and stone. >> it was the physical manifestation of the aspiration of something better above us. we see the bell towers so if i can bring this in a little bit, this is where the bells are. this is where we saw smoke and fire but we also saw the firefighters. the configuration of this significant or what you deal with in this situations of architecture? >> conspires are also typically framed to wood on the inside.

>> when this fell it's is supporting structure and who knows what was done by the renovation worker. >> exactly. we never want a fire like this to occur but the failure of the roof system actually did help the firefighters tonight because that brought them closer to ground level and also cut down the amount of heat that you feel like from a fireplace and things like that into the bell towers basically and then the embers are being generated as well. >> so one of your guys, one of the deputy chiefs here in the city said you can't fight that from the inside. that makes it a crucible. there's not enough ventilation. you have to fight it from the outside, true? >> yes. the fact is that you have a building with no roof on it now. the stability of those walls -- >> even stone. >> 200 feet high. >> so on the outside, you see the impressive metal and the stone but this is the inside. >> right. >> that's the fuel load there.

>> so this is one of the famous windows that they have there. there's several in this and they were worried about that getting blown out. it didn't happen. >> right. >> thank god for that. >> so now inside, we can move people around in this. this is what i want them to focus on. this is the nave. the beautiful activitirchitectu that's supposed to be so inspirational. so what does it mean from thermodynamics and fire fighting. >> you're looking at the bottom side of the roof up in the air basically so behind that of cour course, in all likelihood is a triangular attic space if you want to call it that but it's an area in which a fire could be occurring and you can't get to it. that's the problem. it's behind all of this. >> and this will all feed itself up too, right? this is all air and all wood and stuff that could be just for fire and even with all the stone you think it's going to be that but it's far from it.

again now, the geo-location situation is also relationship vanl -- relationshevant. these are not huge flow bridges. they're not even like the ones that are farther up. that's going to create a huge problem in terms of rush hour in getting there. >> not only the people leaving but trying to get to the scene basically. >> we were talking about the water ships but even the ones that can get in there over time that's not a great vantage to be fighting this fire. >> accessibility is a major problem. >> smoke is also the issue. is the color relationship vanlt to you or just reflective of material? >> it's just material.

one thing we should point out here too is that plume of smoke also contains a lot of embers. chunks of burning wood and that's always a big issue with these buildings is that these embers can drop on buildings blocks away. >> true. one of the good things about being an island but not completely isolated. there was fear that if this burned around them and they fell that it was almost like what we learned during 9/11. what happens on the inside will effect the outside. >> right. >> legit concerns? >> you can see it's a wood framed structure in here. the main sanctuary roof went down and that helped them here because they moved the fire from where they were. >> this was the fear. >> there was and you had guys still protecting this. >> they're going to have some stories of heroism. just let people know at home

what are you dealing with if you're inside this stone tower surrounded by wood and reigning heat at you and embers are flying through every opening in the wall. >> this is about as bad as it gets. >> yeah. >> they were able to put it out. now this was preserved. did we get lucky or this is just hard to take down. >> this is the more iconic vision of the church and things. so the fact that it's still there is because the fire is on the opposite side of the building. >> but it did tear through. >> it did. look how quickly it moved. >> i think it's largely

logistical. that was the best that you could do. you had to fight it from the outside as long as you could. >> there's no way to go inside to fight this. you're certainly not going to use the scaffolding. that's already been compromised and now a lot of people were making the suggestion. where are the choppers. i brought it up on live television today because we think about that. the air restrictions around paris not in an emergency situation, the french authorities said just to address one thing and get it out of the way, we have the capabilities, we fight forest fires all the time. we're not doing this because we're worried about putting that much water inside this structure right now we're afraid it may make it worse structurely for the walls. does that square with you? >> yeah. if it's a fixed wing aircraft there's not one that could drop in that spot moving 700 miles per hour over.

one of the issues you got to here is its a chimney effectively. >> they're so thin. >> that's another issue here and i think they realized they could cause more damage than not. >> it's not without the president. >> he said the right thing and recognized this as the tragedy and said work was going to slow down within the white house and all eyes were on this. a lot of people were talking about that and it was not a factor today. if anything it might have made it worse. thank god we're not measuring it in terms of human loss. >> thank you. >> so again, look, this is heavy. it's so heavy because of the significance. you can't process this as a simple reality. this is the week.

this is deeply personal. in fact, i was surprised by how hard this hit me and it hit me with an immediate question, what happens now? the vatican is shocked and saddened about the disaster. what will the pope do especially at the end of this week? is there an opportunity in this? father edward beck has his take on what the loss means and the challenge it presents, especially this week. and later on, there is much more to this building than what you see. one of the reasons the loss is so heavy is the history that has happened within these walls. when you hear what she has been through and what she has been apart of over the centuries you'll get the gravity of the situation. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one.

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>> it's still dangerous because fires reignite all the time. i can't wait to hear the stories of the firefighters that made it into the bell towers and put the fire out in the conditions they were in. i mean, that's going to be amazing. look, the worst hopefully is over. the physical loss is great and remarkable. the spiritual significance also looms large especially now. right at the start of holy week. obviously it ends easter sunday. this was the main meeting place in paris for catholics at this time of the year. many rights and rituals throughout the week, not just sunday. so what is the loss? how far does it resinate? and what are the challenges going forward? one of my best friends, one of

the people that i would -- i don't know who else i'd want to lean on in a moment like if this for an understanding or a perspective than father edward beck. >> it's good to have you. >> so the art and the architecture. so many people no matter what they believe, 13 million a year came to see this. twice as many as the eiffel tower. we get the historical nature of this but for this week, what sense do you make of this at the beginning of holy week to have this happen to one of the most magnificent christian symbols? >> first of all, you have been there with your wife and kids. we have heard the magnificent organ and bells toll.

for us it's not just a tourist attraction. it's a place of prayer. it's a place we went to be lifted up. so we just celebrated yesterday passion palm sunday. you mention the crown of thorns being one of the relics. that symbol of the passion in this cathedral and that's a parentheses toward the end of the week as we move toward holy week. so ironic to me and you know this when we come to the vigil in all churches around the world, they'll light a fire except the symbol of the fire on holy saturday night and we'll all be thinking about the cathedral that night but the symbol is there's light in the darkness. it's the light of christ to come into our darkness. that's a very different kind of fire than we have seen today but i can't help but hold on to that message that for christians and people of faith it's about death but new life. it's about hope.

president macron said we will rebuild. well for christians it's another way of saying we will persevere. >> people come to you all the time wanting you to explain horrible things. this is another. why does this happen at this time when we need to be doing there the most and bring people together the most and this is when we lose her? >> well, i think it's intere interesting, france has struggled of late with religion and it's own christianity. during the terrorists attacks, you know, you were there, people gathered for silence outside of there and it became a symbol of something so even for nonbelievers they gather there and they may question why would this happen but doesn't it cause us to reflect on.

there was something about being lifted up that this is, as you said, it's more than us. it's higher than us and it's a time to say nothing lasts. it took centuries to build and how long it will take to rebuild but it will. nothing is permanent and yet god is in the midst of it. it will bring people together in a significant way as tragedy always does. i feel like god is in the midst of it somehow even in the pain and destruction. >> thank god we're not measuring this in terms of human loss. we know a firefighter was hurt. we don't have any other reports yet. i was shocked by that. to fight in the conditions they were fighting in that's some of the most daunting and dangerous

conditions for firefighters. is there an opportunity in this? do you think there's any chance that pope francis goes to paris for easter and leaves the vatican? >> i'm going to say that's not going to happen. think of the security concerns. trying to put that together between now and easter. would the pope want to do it? yes. so i don't think that will happen but you can be sure he'll be talking about this tragedy when he lights that easter fire. i think what a wonderful opportunity to say fire isn't just about destruction. it's about light in the darkness and the light of christ.

as you know, my father was a firefighter. he went into many fires and he had many stories about it and my heart is with the firefighters too. i know what my father endured and how important it is to be apart of this. there's brave people trying to save something that matters to people and that's the sense of hope that i have. that people willing to do that for the sake of something else and we're watching them right now up in the air. in the worst of situations we see the best of us. >> exactly. >> father beck, you make everything better. thank god for you and thank you for being in my life and helping the audience tonight. >> god bless you this week. >> i need it. >> as we watch this awful scene and the battle that is on going, you have to believe the worst is over right now but tell that to the men and maybe women in that building right now going through things that are still really hot

that could spark at any moment. all right. saving what is left. good think about this. roughly twice the number of people visit this place every year as they do the nearby eiffel tower. this is much more than a religious shrine and much more than a tourist attraction and so needed right now. this took centuries to build in terms of lure and n. and open your eyes so what this creates as a vulnerability and maybe an opportunity. i'll share that next.

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into your x1 voice remote to upgrade and keep getting more of what you love. she's called our lady, right? notre dame is just the french language of that and she has this special island and even though she is situated there and this is her resident country she means so much to so many. the history matters.

first stone layed in 1163. pope alexander iii. this took 200 years to complete and would wind up being a symbol of human potential the world over. 856 years she has been there. key moments in history. it's where henry 6th of england was made king. ransacked and damaged in the 1600s. rebuilt after napoleon took the crown from the hands of the pope there in 1804. joan of ark was beatified there. even those that haven't seen her in person know it by lure and legend. writer victor hugo immortalized the cathedral. the novel we all try to get our kids to understand in one way or another. the hunchback of notre dame.

the book galvanized a major restoration project of the church. in recent years she has fallen into disrepair. people continue to visit. the architecture, the art, the significance. it's saints and profits and gargoyles and also a place of pilgrimage and prayer. it's open every day for mass. it's a sanctuary for some of the most coveted relics in the christian faith and it's not just that they are kept but this is the week, the one time of the year, holy week when the church would unveil them to remind believers of the significance of what they're about to relive. that crown of thorns, that piece of what is believed to be part of the cross that jesus was crucified on. that's heavy for believers there. some were removed during the restoration. we don't know if anything is

lost. it raises heavy questions. why such a tragedy. why now? does everything really happen for a reason? blessing from tragedy, it's tough to understand. harder for most of us to accept and yet tonight even in the midst of mourning, france's president vowed we're going to rebuild it and we're going to do it together. maybe that city will come closer together from this. they could certainly use that. in fact, we all could. now to understand what was lost, i'm going to bring in an expert in medieval studies to show you what she has meant to the culture beyond christianity and as france's president vows it will be rebuilt but it won't be quick and there will be a lot of challenges before that, next. -and we welcome back gary, who's already won three cars,

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nick haholas paul knows how woven this cathedral is into

france's history. he leads the center for medieval studies. no reason for us to avoid the obvious, there was some what of a feeling of reminiscence of seeing the two big towers at the front of the cathedral. fire ingulfing them, the fire falling into the flames. there is a reminder of what we lived through here on 9/11. thank god we're not measuring this tragedy on human costs. but it's real and we should deal with it. it's part of what resinates. >> you're talking about two iconic buildings. it's hard to avoid that kind of comparison i think for americans watching it. especially on tv. >> our lady of paris is meaningful to the entire world. why? is it just architecture or

through time has there been an accrued significance? >> well, there's so much to say there. in some ways we have to talk about the symbolism of notre dame. it's symbolic of france and paris but symbolic for a lot of people of what the middle ages mean. that was the case in the 19th century. there was an attempt to try to capture the character of the midevil city and put it on display in the cathedral. if we look back at the middle ages and follow the story forward it's remarkable to think about how -- what a story it was that unfolded in the shadow of that building. so the philosophers that debated there as the church was being built, the school of music. >> the irony that something that

has withstood so much, it's had it's ups and downs but nothing like this. >> it doesn't appear that way. >> it might be taken out by a construction fire. there's an irony that teaches us that everything is vulnerable no matter how much it's withstood. >> it does. it's reminiscent to what happened to many that caught fire at one time or another under different circumstances. so this kind of fire, that would have actually been something that medieval communities -- it would have been traumatic to them but not uncommon. maybe we have become too comfortable with the idea of the safety of these buildings. >> is it true that victor hugo was part of an effort that was about an extential crisis for this church. they believed that part of the city needed to be redone including taking her down.

>> there was a restoration movement which was responsible for the famous gargoyles that you see. they are representative of the 19th century. >> why did they add them? >> to make it even more medieval of to capture the medieval character of the building. >> it worked. they always get me when i see them. why do you think eiffel tower, there's almost nothing like it. you talk about something iconic. twice as many people go to see the cathedral as that tower, why? >> it's interesting. if you think about it in terms of other cathedrals in france or other famous religious buildings, it has this iconic status and not because it's somehow superior to those

buildings but more because of its nature at the center of the city and part of the city's story and it was always there. >> you're a midevil expert but if you had to pick one or two events that happened in or around this cathedral that you believe separated in significance. what would you pick? >> i have my own preferences but one is the school of music that developed there at the end of the 12th century. it symbolized what was happening in france and in paris more generally as an intellectual century. it became the heart of medieval civil vags. that was happening at notre dame. >> it was also relevant -- it was cross purposes because one of the threats to that movement was the church and yet here in one of its signature events there was something being given

protection that was vulnerable even from the influence of the vatican. >> right. the other thing i would say was you mentioned the crown of thorns which we don't know what happened with that relic now but the story intersects with the cathedral in an interesting way. when the king of france first acquired the relic in 1238 he intended to build a new building for it. but while that was under construction this is where he placed it and put it at the center of his city and with his people which was an important symbolic moment in his building up of france and paris. >> especially this week of all times. it makes you think about the significance of this place and art and architecture and what it means in terms of our evolution such as it is. in very precarious times.

professor, thank you for letting people know this place matters and it will hopefully continue to do so. the significance of what we witnessed today shouldn't be underestimated. there's not a lot of moments that bring the world together. don lemon has personal thoughts to share about the cathedral and what today meant. when we come back. ♪ ♪ ahhhh! ♪ we're here. ♪ ♪

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bark if you go to paris you visit notre dame. you just do. people from all over the worldcom. one of the most visited landmarks in the world. don, you have been there. you know what week this is for catholics. you know the theme, rebirth and renewal. how do you put it all together?

>> sad watching it and it feels like people lost a member of their family. at least that's what they tell me. your a catholic, i'm not. i went to catholic school and we talked about notre dame all the time. i haven't been to notre dame probably since the 90s although the last time i was in paris was in 2016. you definitely see it. it's beautiful. but you cannot put the loss -- i don't think there's a way to put it into context. this is a work of art. it's one of the great wonders of the world. it goes beyond catholosism and the church. it moves people in certain ways and in positive ways that we need, especially now in this world. >> yeah, one of the terms they'll use, this is universal. if people believe in christ, great. if they don't, it doesn't really

matter. those bells rang and people went there and solace and reminder that there's beauty in this world. >> again, this goes beyond religion. let's just say you're not a believer, it will force you to believe but also if you look at the architecture, just being inside the architecture and s seeing the organi and the proof and being inside of something so monumental and beautiful. if you don't appreciate what it means to people of faith then you have to appreciate what it means to people that love and admi admi admire architecture. >> these aren't just catholics that visit this place. it was interesting. had father beck on and he sees in this a reafir ratifirmation purpose of this week and recall of rebirth and renewal.

as you know, your flawed friend here, i lean on faith because of weakness and for me when i was processing this today, other than the parallels of 9/11 i haven't seen anything shake me like this. thank god we didn't but it's an interesting message to make sense of, beginning of holy week, time of rebirth and renewal, we lose something that mattered so much at this time of year, tough to make sense of it. >> it is a building. they will try to replace it of but there's a lot that's irreplaceable. i hate to make this hard turn. because you focused so much on notre dame, i'm going to focus more on what's happening with the mueller report. we have john pistol, he says the story is really going to be in the redactions and the next part in the story will be trying to get information about the

redactions and get people to unredact it. that's where the story is going. as we know it's going to be released on thursday so we're going to take you forward to tell you what to look for and what the next big story coming out of the mueller report will be. >> get after it, my friend. i'll check back with you in a little bit. it's the right move. we dedicated the whole show to this tonight, we know it matters. we know about the arguments we're having over whatever the president says and the taxes, but something like this today only happens once and especially this week, i just don't think you can escape the meaning behind it. whatever you want it to mean, that's my point. so why speculate about what's going to happen when we have something so real that just happened now, especially when i've got my brothers and sisters at cnn to give you all that stuff. my closing argument is about what i worry most about today, and what i'm most hopeful about going forward, next. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

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what is lost is so obvious, and it went in the worst way. the heavy stone and towering deold wood and all that air, the air supplied by the massive arches in what's called the nave. the top resembles a keel or a belly of a ship upside down. sometimes ships were even located there. some say it's a reminder of the ark. whatever it's about today it worked against us. thank god no one was in there and that we believe some of the most sacred things were saved. but so much loss, such imagery that i can't not process the imagery through the lens of spiritual significance, especially now, this week, holy

week. this place stood as virtue and was consumed by flames. the spire going sent gasps as you heard outside the church. and gasps within those who witnessed it. the metaphor as searing as the image, the highest point, the symbol of aspiration succumbing. and yes, it reminded me of the twin towers. i witnessed that up close. not since has anything bothered me as this did today. the realization so many had been lost to evil, thank god that should never happen again. but there was something at stake here that is also fragile. i'm one of the lucky ones who got to be in that cathedral more than once, a flawed believer to be sure, i went there to pray for my own and others, i went there after the terror attacks,

people gathered whether they believed or not just to be reminded that there's strength in community and there is something eastern evil and terror. there is beauty. there is peace. now i worry about that need feeding it. and so i get what is gone. but i am consumed by what remains, paris, france, everywhere. there's a shortage of beauty to feed on these days. there's discord in great supply, especially there where our lady stands, barely. but really everywhere, let's be honest. victor hugo's famous book, the one that shaped so many of our young lives has a telling passage in the hunchback of note notre dame. he therefore turned to mankind, his cathedral was enough for him. his -- who at least did not laugh in his face and looked at him with only tranquility and

benevolence. this is not just another church in europe. our lady, notre dame, the french or our lady, the mother, comfort and concrete in stone, respite from realities, for centuries. she reminded us there was something better if you sought it in yourself, maybe in others. that no matter what had your head down there was something beautiful above, just look. and in there you could almost see it, 12 million a year, twice as many as those who go to the eiffel tower. for what? the comfort of beauty, the significance of her longevity. and in that duration, confirmation of the durability of her promise. come here and remember there is something better. how do we remind of that now? this week? christians reliving jesus' last days, we call this crucifixion as passion, a nod to seeing the suffering as a function of

something worth suffering for. i hope this is a moment that makes people reenforce our lady's legacy. will the pope come to paris? probably not. it's too soon. mass in front of notre dame on easter sunday, who you what a message that would send, that what matters survives. rebirth and renewal is the easter promise. beyond what can be built but by what can be fed in ourselves and others. in the french president's call to rebuild her together i hope they remember that that means far more than money and materials and time, and it can begin right away, no better time for that than this week. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with d. lemon starts right now. >> let's think about, chris, all of the -- just the amazing -- i like to call them works of art you have there. you've