for paris and the cultural monument. i think that story would be a good one in the long-term. >> appreciate it. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> that's it for us. i want to hand it over to chris. cuomo primetime starts now. >> thank you. welcome to primetime. we have new information and stories to tell about what happened to our lady of paris. the headline is, the french president thinks the cathedral can be rebuilt in five years. really? also what a story. a hero chaplin braved the inferno to save the religious treasures inside. wait until you hear this incredible story. tonight we also know more about what did and did not survive the flames and what did survive largely in part because of the chaplan and chain they put together but there's also nagging questions. why did it take so long to report the fire? what does that tell us about what has to be done better in the future? information on that. guess who we have, cardinal timothy dolan here on the great revival he sees coming during

holy week. an important message and some very enlightening information as we prepare for the mueller report. what's been dug up from attorney bill barr's past that's bringing goosebumps about the present. what do you say? let's get after it. here's the big fact that we're still struggling with when it comes to what happened in paris. 23 minutes. that's how much time it took for flames to be detected at the cathedral after the first fire alarms went off at about 6:20 p.m. and the cathedral was even evacuated but they didn't find fire. why? we have an expert to go through things. then we have 6:43 p.m.. second alarm, that's when security officers saw the

flames. kond instruction expert called the new york times. the cathedral didn't have certain equipment you need to have to fight backfire. sprinklers, different architectural work where the inferno started. especially the attic space. we'll take you through all of it tonight but the first guest i have, he's not here to talk about construction. he's going to talk about reconstruction of the structure but also of the soul. arch bishop of new york, timothy dolan. it's great to have you. >> good to be here. >> always welcome. >> so we'll deal. >> you have such an interesting show. i'm going to stick around and watch. >> it can only help. we want to know what went wrong so it can be fixed going forward, obviously. we do not have any reports or indication that this was foul play or done through some malice. we have seen none of that. now we get to the question we

asked last night. we know what's gone but what remains and what happens next? what do you hope for here? >> i am fighting a roller coaster of emotion, like everybody else over 24 hours ago. sadness, oh my lord, confusion. just a somberness. how can this happen to one of the greatest icon's in civilization. all of a sudden, chris, when i detect for one the overwhelming sense of sympathy and prayer that everybody started expressing to me. number two the sense of digging in and rebuilding and saying we're not going to let this destroy this church. we're going to begin to build right now. and a sense of hope and resurrection which is really

appropriate for this holy week. and sometimes the more dismal the situation the more hopeful we become. sometimes when we look at something we love, literally reduced to ashes, we almost see life coming from that. when i hear from my friend the arch bishop of paris there's already life coming from death and do i ever find this inspirational. figure it this way, chris. if you wanted to name a place in the world that would represent, what would we say, an aggressive militant secularism where religion wasn't taken seriously anymore. you might say paris. paris would come to mind. here you've got right now thousands of people on their knees praying. thousands more crying over the

destruction of their church and the whole country rising up to say they're not going to destroy something we love. you almost see this resurrection of a spiritual vitality. people gathered at notre dame. people there that weren't necessarily believers in christianity or catholosism, they went because of a belief in their community. >> that's true. >> i wonder if, in your opinion, our lady of paris transcended her role even within the faith. 13 million a year went there, cardinal. they weren't all catholics. twice as many as went to the eiffel tower. whether it's the art or the aspirational sense that something is above you, whatever you decide it is, how do you make sure that that remains? >> we see that. people feel at home there.

even to look at it, smack dab in the middle of fifth avenue in midtown manhattan, there's an automatic uplifting spirit. the same is true in notre dame. so people that may not be overtly christian, identify bia catholic, they still sense within themselves a touch of the devine. a magnetism to the above and a place like our lady of notre dame in paris just symbolizes the best and brings out the best and brings up the best part of culture, music and literature and sense of natural pride and heroic past. all of these things that make civilization noble seem to be p personified in a place like

notre dame. so no wonder a woman i can see last night, she says france has gone to the guillotine with this destruction of notre dame. we have been beheaded. that's how much they think of notre dame. >> and what is the comfort that you provide to people in that moment of pain? she'll never be the same. she lasted 800 years. we may rebuild her but what she was she'll never be begin. what do you say? >> from what i'm hearing, they're giving me hope. nobody is coming up to me and saying what do we do? are we going to rebuild? they're the ones that are saying the gates of hell are not going to prevail against us. the church, meaning that building, but also the wider faith is going to rebuild. can i tell you something? you know ken. he's a great philanthropist in the new york area.

he called me today and said let's team up and get some aid for the rebuilding of notre dame. i said ken count me in. he was good to us the restoration and repair of st. patricks and we want to pitch in and help with notre dame. i'll let you know when we get more information. >> are you going to have a goal or figure it out? >> i'll leave that up to ken. he's better with money than i am. we'll get it done. >> how are you planning or is it too soon to figure out what that means in terms of the tapestry? >> we had the cathedral earlier today when we bless the three different oils that we use in the sacraments. and solidarity of the people to

mourn this destruction but chris this in a way, this is a prea preacher's dream because what notre dame is showing us is what we call the pascal mystery in reality. that's the dying and rising of jesus, that's the transition that passover if you will from good friday to easter which jesus underwent in which he invites us to go through with him. that's what is happening with notre dame. we see dying. we see death. this magnificent structure that represents everything noble and uplifting is now in ruins, but already you sense the spark of hope that we're going to rebuild. we're going to renew. we're going to bring back to life. that's it. passing over to life and promise

and hope. that's what we go through in our own lives. this is a audio-visual aid of that. an icon of that. this event is going to find it's way. >> very few can communicate it the way you can. >> you're kind to say it. thank you for covering it accurately and reverently. the next story about the priest. >> he was already famous. >> there were all of these -- that was a scene, i'm telling you, i can't even communicate what it was like, letting them know it was going to be okay. >> he's like a judge. >> exactly right. he got a human chain and they got the relics out. >> right.

>> yes he did. >> i'll tell you what i love. i love that people are coming together. i haven't seen big crowds like this in europe for something positive in a long time. they have been antagonistic. >> didn't you think that was phenomenal? especially the prime minister there? >> i did. she did an amazing job and the people came together to believe they can be something more than their worst moment. >> so many of you have asked what you can do to help rebuild notre dame. when the cardinal gives me the information i'll pass it along. for now go to cnn.com/impact. our impact your world team has information on where you can donate, how you can be part of this reconstruction. now firefighters, 400 of them we're told, they ran into a place that people run away from.

they are so brave. they weren't the only ones to risk their lives though to save history. we're going to look at the man you heard us talking about. remarkable heroism and organizing a chaplain credited with saving the crown of thorns and other relics inside of the cathedral. the story is next. nothing says spring like fresh flowers,

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♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller transitions™ light under control™ today in paris, stories of hope, heroism, emerging from the ashes of notre dame. charred on the inside, blackened on the outside, but tonight what matters is the fire is out and people are safe. even though much of the cathedral's roof fell through the flames all of paris is tonight united in the effort to rebuild. that shows the power of our lady living on. so many today were heartened by the sight of its iconic's fascade. it's believed the main bell in that south tower survived.

that's huge. also uplifted by the bravery of those that jumped in to save the troef trove of relics and artifacts. a catholic priest and champion he's the same man that tended to the victims in 2015. we reported on him then. he formed a human chain to save the holiest relics. he was able to retrieve the crown of thorns. especially this week of holy week. can you imagine the significance if that had been lost? believed to have been placed on the head of christ during his passion, rescued from the fire. a linen tunic believed to have been worn by louis 9th.

those will be taken to paris city hall. among them statues and paintings saved to people that cared. one of the world's most famous musical instruments, it survived. it dates back to the midevil times and it's still here after all of that. for anyone that can become the head organist it carries prestige around the world. now we know it's safe. this one is special. i'm going to argue that this is a sign of what should come next. it's sat atop the 50 conspires made of copper. that went through and sat there for hours and yet look at it. it remains. amazing that it is intact.

resilie resilient, defiant. it's heavy stuff and tells us about what comes next. those are the facts we learn today. it's amazing that so much has spared. we now have good information we have to get into. there were problems inside the cathedral and problems with the response. one big question. why did it take 23 minutes to detect flames after the first alarm sounded? i'm not saying this is suspicious or malicious but we need to know the answers because we have to do better. we have an authority on fire science, next. the healthcare industry. by taking the same predictive analytics powered by dell technologies to diagnose their race cars... and applying it to the human body... mclaren can help healthcare professionals provide more personalized solutions, which could in turn support even speedier recoveries. ♪ behr presents: tough as walls.

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that's the time between the

first and second fire alarms at notre dame. this is just one of the areas that investigators are looking at to fill in the gaps. back with me tonight, fire science expert, here in new york, we're dealing with technical difficulties here when we get to what we need. we'll try to use this. we'll see how it works. a little sensitive tonight. first thing we're talking about here is how hot this burned. we now believe the fire started up top and wound up as you told us last night burning through. this question about the time between the alarms and not detecting fire the first time after inspection, why? >> apparently the first alarm must have picked up something and cleared itself and over 20 minutes later a second alarm came in and that's what initiated the response. >> the first one -- >> right. >> we don't find the fire, why? >> that's a good question.

of course unfortunately we have this problem a lot. if they can't find the source of the smoke or the source of the problem they go back to assuming it's nothing and in this case probably something was going on. >> why isn't it part of the protocol that no matter what you call in the firefighters and let them figure it out. >> it's the time. so it's important that to get the fire department on the road quickly and everything and of course if there's no fire then they simply go back. but you can never play catch up. >> that's what happened here. all the factors were against you. certainly time, location. >> right. >> because it's just hard to get to it. you'll see there's only really two of them there. that's going to be a problem. we do know that if i can draw on this thing now we know that we

had a couple of water ships here and a couple of engines here. that doesn't sound like a lot to fight a fire like this. >> it's not. of course here in new york city of course we had a much larger response and everything. the fire department is much larger. but this was a major challenge. >> they were coming from far away and they did what they could but they couldn't fight from the inside so you had all the manpower trying to figure out how to do it from the inside. now the roof burn winds up being relevant. inside this roof you showed us last night would we now know no sprinklers. you showed us compartments around the stone. now we hear no firewalls. significance. >> major significance. so the fire is burning above and

it makes imimpossibpossible for inside to attack it. of course as you know, these are relatively small areas. very difficult to access. hard to get up there. so fighting a fire like this is almost impossible. >> no sprinklers. no firewalls. do you think this is common? we don't have a lot of cathedrals. but this is like common that they don't have these things? >> it's very common. those that go back most of them do not have sprinklers so they're subject to issues here even though it's a much larger building and don't have any compartment up there. >> it could have been ret retrofitted. >> it could be. >> we're always thinking about how we raise money for churches and synagogues. this is something to put on the list with the board about whether or not you're up to

speck because you can have something that's completely beautiful and irreplaceable and vulnerable to something that you could stop. >> these all predate any building codes around there so a lot of stuff should be a focus. spend a little bit of money now instead of avoiding a disaster later. >> this is the inside. we know that a lot of this was charred up. did you hear today that the votive candles. i was trying to figure out where they are. i don't know where the votive candles -- they would probably be in the back somewhere. >> right. >> they were still lit. >> right. >> how do you explain that? they weren't melted up from fire. they were still lit. >> they were shielded from the fire and probably a little bit of devine intervention here too. >> right. but isn't that -- something a little bit -- >> right, right. >> weird. >> right. it is apparently like i said it was most like an area that was shielded away from the main area

of the roof that was consumed. something that was burning in hot. does that tell you something about it being more isolated up above than we thought early on? >> that's where the bulk of the fire was for the majority of this fire. and that removed the large amount of fire that was up there and moved it away from the location. that probably helped them a lot. >> a fire can typically double in size every minute. >> straightforward fire can easily double in size every minute.

so time is always of the essence. what we see on television isn't accurate. you can't get access to the building and get up there to put the fire out. the quicker you get there, the better outcome it's going to be. we don't know. this investigation will tell us how it happened and how it started and what if any effect that the delay had but that's things we need to look at. >> 2-thirds of the timber frame is gone. what does that mean in terms of rebuilding? >> looking at this now, this gives them an opportunity to rethink this building basically structurally. so this is an opportunity to come up with technology to make this happen although the inside will look like the schedule of the building. >> rebuild but actually

renovate. >> you have been doing this a long time. that conspire sits there for hours. and copper rooster survives it intact. what are the chances? >> the chances are remote. so the fact is that it's incredible that that -- actually that artifact survived. maybe devine intervention again. >> the conspire is gone. >> right. >> it's all wood. >> what it sat on top of, not the highest flashpoint. >> no, no. >> right. no this is a remarkable situation here with the survival of that rooster. >> i am shocked by what remained. lit votive candles. this copper rooster. >> we learn more every day and more because of you.

>> americans have waited nearly two years to find out the conclusions from special counsel bob mueller. answers are supposed to come in less than 48 hours but what will we get? there's a reason to worry that we didn't really focus on before. this attorney general as i have argued to you on this show before has a track record. he has shown you who he is. tonight we'll expose something similar to what happened on thursday. we'll expose what happened and litigate what it means this time. cuomo's court in session, next. allergies with sinus congestion and pressure? you won't find relief here. go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more.

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look, the past is prologue. 30 years ago when he was the head of the office of legal council under george h.w. bush before he was the attorney general, barr himself authored a controversial memo arguing that the fbi had the right to abduct people in other countries. subject matter isn't what really matters here. it's about the transparency.

congress demanded to see the memo. barr handed over a shorter memo to summarize the conclusion. it later emerged that his summary was misleading leaving out key controversial sections. what does that mean for what's going to happen to us in a couple of days? let's bring in laura and michael for cuomo's court. it's good to see you both. did you hear us talking about you in the tease with anderson? >> i did. >> you accused me of dating you. do you see the head of hair on that guy? he could be my son. >> and hat tip to ryan goodman for reminding me of the story i wrote 30 years ago because i hadn't thought about it in quite sometime. >> now that you had a chance to refresh your recollection what's the lessons weshld think about

today. he's a strong executive power guy that has inherent authority to take whatever steps he deems necessary to defend the country and if that clashes with law so be it. that was the case he layed out for the george h.w. bush administration in 1989 when the then president wanted to invade panama and snatch him and bring him back to miami to face drug trafficking charges. and barr gave the bush white house the opinion he was looking for and he was as ryan goodman reminded us based on the story i did when i finally got my hands on the memo a few years later, barr was not totally transparent

about the legal basis that he layed out in that memo. >> the push back is that you work the system that you're in and he argued the same way he does today about the doj was to keep stuff secret and to only release what you need to and to protect different categories of information. that's what he was doing then and that's what he says he's doing now. your concerns? >> well of course we're in extraordinary times. this seems to be the complete poster child for that old phrase trust but verify. certainly there is some prerogative to the exercise by the attorney general of the united states. however, when you have the just trust me, trust is the summation or distal lags will contain every single nuisance and every single devil's advocate point.

we have a hard time so this idea of just trust me and this blanket assertion that he should, in fact, be trusted or have given this whole comprehensive take is what is most concerning based on what happened in the 80s. his argument back then did not with stand this the arguments about the circumstances and why people should see it and why it was successful actually behooves him to learn the lessons of yesterday. >> congressman edwards was in charge of it at that time and barr argued we don't usually release this stuff. i'll give you a summary because i'm being nice. he said what are you talking

about? i'm looking at them now and barr retreated to the same argument. well, only in extraordinary circumstances. >> right but look a little context here. >> please. >> 25 years later the obama justice department produced legal memos justifying not snatching people overseas, assassinating them through drone strikes and guess what, they refused to release those memos to congress or to the public. there was a huge controversy on it about it when i got my hands on the first -- on a white paper that layed out the actual legal reasoning in those memos, guess what, it was very different than the public rational that eric older and other obama administration had given before the legal authority to assassinate people overseas. >> good. >> so this is not unique to william barr. lack of transparency by the

justice department is something that spans many years and both parties. >> let me bounce it on to you, laura. this is what happens. people work the system to their advantage when they are in power and my question to you is do you believe when this comes out people will only see in it, assuming they can see things. if the redaxs are there, congress is going to fight. they're going to say they have a right to it but eventually when people look at what is in this, do you believe they're going to see what they wanted to see all along? it will be a inkblot test to a lot of people. they'll have a partisan lenses and they'll be thinking about

which category to assign it to. whether it's classified information or dangerous area. the third parties and people will look at it that way. but ultimately this doesn't fall on partisan lines. the american people have a vested interest in understanding what a 22 month investigation paid for by tax dollars will say. having said that, however, i think the biggest concern on to prior context that michael just provided and you were talking about chris is the idea of whether or not that ink blot test or all of those redactions will be misleading to the american people and or congress about the true substance of what was found and what was investigated. and that's why it will be a big problem. >> just as you saw when this

happened, mike, about the context of the point, congress has a lot of leeway in terms of what it can sue and get. how long does it take and ultimately what difference does it make? those are much more intriguing questions at this point. thank you so much. >> not a day over 25 and you provide us such rich perspective. >> thank you. >> best to both of you. >> today the president said something that we have literally never heard from a president before. it actually involves him being ticked off at fox news. i'll bring in d. lemon for his grand deliberation, next. ted br. new tattoo brow pomade from maybelline new york. ♪ for up to 24-hour sculpted brows. new tattoo brow pomade. only from maybelline new york.

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>> trump is a dangerous president but if all we do is focus on him we lose. >> presidential candidate bernie sanders repeatedly layed into this president last night in a fox news town hall. oddly, the president seemed offended that this was even happening. like he was being cheated on. look at his quote, so weird to

watch crazy bernie on fox news. not surprisingly brett bare and the audience was so smiley and nice. very strange. and now we have donna brazile. why did i emphasize we? because it deserves emphasis. we have donna brazile? the president is referring to himself and fox collectively if their hiring of the former dnc chair and cnn analyst now as a commentator on fox? let's bring in d.lemon. what else do you need to know? >> duh. it shows you how he views the relationship that he has with state run television that we talk about all the time. it is an echo chamber. he sees something there and then he all of a sudden makes it his mission to say what they say and make it a campaign thing. i'm not shocked by it.

are you? >> yeah. the idea that he actually says it. he actually says me and fox, like we're the same thing. >> yeah, well, you know, he talks about how he talks to sean hannity all the time. he calls him on stage at a campaign rally. what do you think? >> for a president to see a news organization as part of his administration with the we. >> where have you been for the last few years? >> you never hear presidents say that but you know the relationship he has with fox news and you know the relationship that fox news has with him. he is emboldened by a lot of things. maybe he let the truth slip out. but i think he's aware that people know that. he looks at them as an extension of the republican party and also of the white house and so i'm not shocked that he feels that way.

maybe i should be a little bit that he said it but yeah he actually said it. what was interesting to me, mr. cuomo was that bernie sanders said a whole lot of things on fox news that their viewers don't hear and they're going wait, what are you talking about? they probably had to go and google it and they still don't believe it because he was actually speaking truth and facts to that audience. >> it's the end of 100 years of solitude, the book. >> the audience that's used to listening to the ideas reinforced there. >> i started at fox news. i don't like them being colored with this. i don't like that the president put this on them. then he put it on them they car what's going on in the country. many trump fans and signs were outside the fox studio last night in the thriving, thank

you, president trump, bethlehem, pennsylvania, for the interview with crazy bernie sanders. big complaints about not being let in-stuffed with bernie supporters. it hasn't happened in that city. what's he talking about? >> i don't know. that's another thing. >> defend him. >> i'm not defending him. what is wrong with them having bernie supporters? you want the people who are going to vote for that candidate in the primaries and in the caucuses. that's who you want there. his tweet makes absolutely no sense as many of them don't make sense. >> it makes perfect sense if you are a jilted lover, if you're somebody who expects loyalty. >> so you want to know about what's coming out in this mueller report. >> yes. >> you really, really, really want to know. if you want to know where the president has the most exposure

in the southern district of new york, you know who you get? >> who? >> the former attorney for the southern district of new york, and guess who that is? >> on your show? >> coming up on this show. >> i thought he was out of town. >> he is here. >> good for you, lemon. i'll see you in a second. we know what is gone in paris, and it is important to speak to what remains. but i see some things that i believe are signs of hope, and some of them are just straight up freaky, and i'm going to lay them out for you, next. it turns out, they want me to start next month. she can stay with you to finish her senior year. things will be tight but, we can make this work. ♪ now...

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xfinity watchathon week has sadly come to an end. what, what, what! no! but don't let that stop you from watching the best shows and movies from showtime, hbo, epix... jesus, what happened? ...and more. it's just the tip of the iceberg. upgrade now to get more into what you're into. thanks! just say "watchathon" into your x1 voice remote to upgrade and keep getting more of what you love. so my brothers and sisters, my keconcern is what remains afr what we all witnessed. what do we do now? the residue over the centuries, how do we keep it alive? we're starting to see the answer take shape. we do this. we come together. we do this. we sing and hold hands.

we do this. we console. we live the inspiration and aspiration she fed in people. that's what we do. we also pledge to undo the damage. and to do it again in record time. and hopefully not just rebuild. certainly they have to upgrade some of the systems that made this worse than it should have been, according to the preliminary investigator roul results. you don't just rebuild, you renovate. you make her something more than what she was, you make her new by these standards. certainly there must be real attention to detail of replacing the frescoes and the architectu architecture. remember, she was built over numerous periods. also think about how do you capture the spirit of what she's supposed to mean and also embrace some of the technology of today to enhance that message, enhance her history,

enhance what she can give to people? now, before all that planning, or maybe as part of it, we have to look for signs that this is about something bigger than us. for example, you remember this, right? the girders found at ground zero in the shape of the cross? i was there. that was huge for people, restored of a faith no matter what they believed. and you could say, oh, it's just random, or it isn't. you remember the flag they found, singed but still there. metaphor. very powerful as a message in the moment. those signs told us that everything that matters isn't gone, even though there was so much loss. something worthy remained. and that's the right focus. if that's the case, and i believe it is here as well, then you're going to be aiming for something better. here are my three reasons, three signs for me. one, that front facade could have gone down. we know there was fire in at least one of those towers. but it didn't.

the flames fell shomprt. the men who were fighting, the first responders, they got in and saved the face of our lady. she's incomplete but there. the spire is gone. two, that copper rooster, the symbol of france, survived that crucible. it was at the top of the spire. the spire falls in. we all saw that. it is now laying in an oven for hours intact. look at the man holding it. the rooster is intact. i know copper has a high flash point. my point was what metal is going to withstand that much heat in those many hours, and how is it not crushed? heat, time and circumstance, and yet it survived. in fact, when we were watching the event yesterday, i took this picture of the screen. i couldn't believe there were birds that seemed to be staying with our lady, even when she was engulfed in fire. i just thought it was a weird juxtaposition. now it turns out the rooster survived.

kind of eerie, but not really because eerie means evil and it's inspiring. if you're saying, shut up with your hockus-pocus. guess what survived? the rooster, including the crown of thorns. the rooster was called the lightning rod to protect the parisioners inside. come on, what are the chances? not good. it's a sign. we should take it as a motivator that there is more to this cause than the return of steel install. this is not about faith, certainly not about religion. it's about looking for proof that there is something soulful here, something worthy for us to come together, and that's my third sign. the most powerful to my point, the people. inside despite all the fire, the votive candles lit by people

from everywhere in this world were never touched by flame. their prayers protected from hell fire by our lady, and the people have come to answer what could be her prayers as well. they came to her in her hour of need. they mourned her in paris, in america, in europe, all over the world, watching her burn, feeling that pain, watching the coverage, feeling the toxic wastelands of social media with positivity and aspirational notions of the need to come together to match the magnitude of the mess many times over with a message that what matters most remains. the basic reality that we are all in it together, interconnected, interdependent. the people are the church, not the places. and that is all that need remain. us and our will to do better. rebuild our lady, but even more importantly, renovate it. money is pouring in from all over the world.

you heard the cardinal, he wants us to chip in here in new york. adorned as much as she was when she survived. we see signs, we look at how we came together. a sense of collective purpose, donations, do-gooders. simply people showing compassion. these are the signs i'm talking about. hearts and minds of a collective soul of goodwill. i haven't seen it burn this bright, and the cause of repairing and restoring beauty. crowns like this are fueled most days by anger and opposition. but not here. this is about what remains and the signs that show us it's worth coming together and we are stronger together. and hopefully she will be back with us soon. that's our show for tonight. i'm running late. let me get it to d. lemon right now. >> you are running late -- >> sorry. >> come on. i've got two hours. you did a really good job educating people about what you call our lady, the