this sort of cultural monument. i think that story would be a good one in the long-term. >> dan wise, appreciate it. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> that's it for us. i want to hand it over to chris. "cuomo prime time" starts right now. >> thank you. welcome to "cuomo prime time." we have new information and stories to tell about what happened to our lady of paris. the headline is, the french president thinks the cathedral can be rebuilt in five years. really? also what a story. a hero chaplin braved the inferno to save the religious treasures inside. wait until you hear this incredible story. tonight we also know more about what did and did not survive the flames and what did survive largely in part because of the chaplain and the chain they put together. i'll tell you more of that story. but there are also nagging questions. why did it take so long to report the fire? what does that tell us about what has to be done better in the future? and guess who we have? his eminence timothy dolan here on the great revival he sees

coming during holy week. some enlightening information. an important message and some very enlightening information as we prepare for the mueller report. what's been dug up from attorney bill barr's past that's bringing goosebumps about the present. not the president, the present. what do you say? let's get after it. so here's the big fact that we're still struggling with when it comes to what happened in paris. 23 minutes. that's how much time it took for flames to be detected at the cathedral after the first fire alarms went off at about 6:20 p.m. local time. checks were initially carried out. that's what we're told. and the cathedral was even evacuated, but they didn't find fire. why? we have an expert to go through things. then the next fact we have, 6:43 p.m. the second alarm rings. that's when security officers finally saw the flames. but by the time the firefighters got there, remember, we showed

you about the geography. we'll remind you of that tonight and the timing of rush hour, the flames were already out of control. a construction expert tells the "new york times" the cathedral didn't have certain equipment you need to have to fight backfire, sprinkler, different architectural work, where the inferno reportedly started, especially the attic space. we'll take you through all of it tonight. but the first guest i have is not here to talk about reconstruction, he is here to talk of the structure but also of the soul. arch bishop of new york, timothy dolan. it's great to have you. >> good to be here. >> always welcome. >> so we'll deal. >> you have such an interesting show. i'm going to stick around and watch. if you don't mind. this is promising. >> it can only help. we want to know what went wrong so it can be fixed going forward, obviously. we do not have any reports or indication that this was foul play or done through some malice. >> thank god. >> we have seen none of that. now we get to the question we asked last night. we know what's gone but what

remains and what happens next? what do you hope for here? >> you know what? this is -- i am fighting a roller coaster of emotion, like everybody else, when i first heard of this tragedy a little over 24 hours ago. sadness, oh my lord, confusion. just a somberness. how can this happen to one of the greatest icon's in civilization. all of a sudden, chris, when i detect for one the overwhelming sense of sympathy and prayer that everybody started expressing to me. number two, the sense of digging in and rebuilding and saying we're not going to let this destroy this church. we're going to begin to build right now. when i saw -- it reminded me of the almost hard wire in the human person of a sense of resiliency and hope and resurrection, which is really appropriate for this holy week when that's what we're celebrating in the life of jesus.

when that's what our jewish neighbors are celebrating in passover. and sometimes the more dismal the situation the more hopeful we become. sometimes when we look at something we love, literally reduced to ashes, we almost see life coming from that. when you hear from the french president, when i hear from my friend the archbishop of paris, when i hear from our own people here, there's already life coming from death, and do i ever find that inspirational. this could -- figure it this way, chris. if you wanted to name a place in the world that would kind of represent, what would we say? kind of an aggressive in-built militant secularism where religion wasn't taken seriously anymore, even religi, you might paris. paris would come to mind. here you've got right now thousands of people on their knees praying. thousands more crying over the destruction of their church and the whole country rising up to

say they are not going to destroy something we love. you almost see this resurrection of a spiritual vitality. >> i remember after the terror attacks there, "charlie hebdo" and the attacks, people gathered at notre dame. of course they had at our lady of paris, they had masses. people there who weren't necessarily believers in christianity or catholicism, they went because of the belief in their community. >> that's true. >> i wonder if, in your opinion, our lady of paris transcended even her role within the faith and it started to symbolize things to people. 13 million a year went there, cardinal. they weren't all catholics. twice as many as went to the eiffel tower. whether it's the art or the architecture or the aspirational sense that something is above you, whatever you decide it is. >> yeah. >> how do you make sure that remains? >> we see that at st. patrick's too. >> sure you do. >> people feel at home there. even to look at it, smack dab in

the middle of fifth avenue in midtown manhattan, there's an automatic uplifting spirit. the same is true in notre dame. so people who may not be overtly christian, identifiably catholic, might not even identify themselves as believers, they still kind of sense within themselves a touch of the divine, a magnetism to the above, and a place like of our lady of notre dame in paris just symbolizes that and brings out the best, brings out the best not only in faith, religion, worship, love, the church, brings out the best in art, culture, music, literature, a sense of national pride, a heroic memory of the past. all of these things that make civilization noble seem to be personified in a place like notre dame. so no wonder a woman on the street that i can see that i

heard last night, she says france has gone to the guillotine with the destruction of notre dame. we have been beheaded. that's how much they think of notre dame. >> and what is the comfort that you provide to people in that moment of pain? she'll never be the same. this was it. she lasted 800 years. we may rebuild her but what she was she'll never be begin. what do you say? >> from what i'm hearing, they're giving me hope. nobody is coming up to me and saying what do we do? are we going to rebuild? they're the ones that are saying the gates of hell are not going to prevail against us. the church, meaning that building, but also their church, the wider faith is going to rebuild. a lot of generosity. can i tell you something? you know ken langone. ken is a great philanthropist in the new york area.

he called me today and said let's team up and get some aid for the rebuilding of notre dame. i said ken count me in. ken was good to us in the restoration and repair of our beloved st. patrick's. we want to do it. we want to pitch in and help with notre dame. i'll let you know when we get more information. >> please let me know and i'll put it out to people. you going to have a goal or figure it out? >> i'll leave that up to ken. he's better with money than i am. he and i will get it done. >> how are you planning or is it too soon to figure out what that means in terms of the tapestry that you'll weave for people on sunday? >> we had the cathedral earlier today when we bless the three different oils that we use in the sacraments. the seven sacraments. and ied a the beginning said look, folks, our players are the more fervent today as we're in solidarity with the people of france, and indeed the people of the world who mourn this destruction. but chris, this in a way, as

somber and as tragic as the event is, this is a preacher's dream because what notre dame is showing us is what we call the pascal mystery in reality. that the dying and rising of jesus, that's that transition, that passover if you will from good friday to easter, which jesus underwent and which he invites us to go through with him. and that's what's happening with notre dame. we see dying. we see death. this magnificent structure that represents everything noble and uplifting in the human project is now in ruins, but already you sense the spark of hope that we are going to rebuild. we're going to renew. we're going to bring back to life. that's easter. that's the pascal mystery. that's the passover for our jewish neighbors. death and slavery in egypt, passing over to life and promise and hope in israel. that's what france is going through. that's what jesus went through. that's what we go through in our

own lives. and this is kind of an audio visual aid of that. an icon of that. something tells me i'm not the only preacher, christian preach they're is saying this event is going to find its way into my holy week holidays. >> very few can communicate it the way you can. >> you're kind to say it. thanks, chris. thank you for covering it accurately and reverently. the next story about the priest. >> and this man was already famous, the chaplain. >> he was already famous. >> the bataclan. >> that's right. >> i was telling you, cardinal, i can't even communicate what it was like inside the bataclan. >> yeah. >> so he went in there comforting the victims, letting them know it was going to be okay. >> he's like a judge. >> exactly right. he gets a human chain. he didn't do it alone, but no one ever does, and they got the relics out. >> right. and the holy eucharist. >> yes, he did. phenomenal stuff.

>> i'll tell you what i love. i love that people are coming together. i haven't seen big crowds like this in europe for something positive in a long time. they have been antagonistic. we've seem copping together, but they've been opposition. >> new zealand, didn't you think that was phenomenal, especially that prime minister there? >> i did. she did an amazing job and the under duress. she made moves that people could do something about this politics aside, and the people came together to believe that they can be something more than their worse moment. i think there is something really instructive in that. >> let's hope that goes on now. happy to be here. blessed easter to you and the family. >> the renewal, cardinal, you bet. that's the word. >> many of you have asked what you can do to help rebuild notre dame. when the cardinal gives me the information, i'll pass it along. for now, go to cnn.com/impact. our impact your world team has information on where you can donate, howie can be part of this reconstruction. now firefighters, 400 of them we're told, they ran into a place that people run away from. they are so brave. they weren't the only ones to

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all right. the show is a mix of dark and light tonight. we'll get to the dark shadow surrounding this mueller disclosure and what we expect on thursday, but let's stick with the light for a second. today in paris, stories of hope, heroism, emerging from the ashes of notre dame. charred on the inside, blackened on the outside, but tonight what matters is the fire is out and people are safe. even though much of the cathedral's roof and spire fell through the flames, all of paris tonight is united in the effort to rebuild, and that aspiration shows the power of our lady living on. now so many today were heartened

by the sight of its iconic facade, the twin bell towers largely intact, really the face of the cathedral. it's believed the main bell in that south tower survived. that's huge. the spirit of the people also uplifted by the bravery of those who jumped in to save the priceless trove of relics and artifacts. a lot of credit due to one man, jean-marc fournier, a catholic priest, chaplain of the paris fire brigade. he is the same man who tended to the victims of the bataclan terror attacks in 2015. we reported on him then. french reporters credited him with leading a rescue effort inside notre dame while it was on fire, forming a human chain to save its holiest relics. he had keys and codes. so he was able to retrieve the crown of thorns, the cathedral's most venerated relic, especially in this week of holy week. can you imagine the significance if that had been lost? believed to have been placed on

the head of christ during his passion, rescued from the fire. a linen tunic believed to have been worn by the french monarch and st. louie the ix. those will be taken to paris city hall. those items will be taken to the louvre for cleaning and safe keeping. among them statues and paintings saved to people that cared. that great organ, 8,000 pipes. one of the world's most famous musical instruments, it survived. it dates back to the midevil times, and it's still here after all that. for anyone that can become the head organist it carries prestige around the world. now we know it's safe. also truly striking is what was found, this discovery. now this is a rooster. see the head here? this is a symbol of france, but this one is special, and i'm going to argue at the end of the show that this is a sign of what should come next. it sat atop the 150 spire. it's made of copper.

that spire went through, it santana that crucible for hours, and yet look at it. it remains. amazing that it is intact. resilient, defiant. it is heady stuff, and i think it tells us all what comes next. so those are the fax we learned today. it's amazing that so much has spared. we now have good information we have to get into. there were problems inside the cathedral and problems with the response. one big question. why did it take 23 minutes to detect flames after the first alarm sounded? i'm not saying this is suspicious or malicious but we need to know the answers because we have to do better. we have an authority on fire science, next. i'm not really a wall street guy. what's the hesitation? eh, it just feels too complicated, you know? well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that. jj, will you break it down for this gentleman? hey, ian. you know, at td ameritrade, we can walk you through your options trades step by step until you're comfortable. i could be up for that. that's taking options trading from wall st. to main st. hey guys, wanna play some pool?

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that investigators are looking at to fill in the gaps. back with me tonight, fire science expert, professor glenn corbett with jon jay college here in new york. we're dealing with technical difficulties here. when we get to what we need, we'll try and use this. we'll see how it works. a little sensitive tonight. all right. first thing that we're talking about here is how hot we knew about this burn. we now believe the fire started up top and wound up as you told us last night burning through. this question about the time between the alarms and not detecting fire the first time after inspection, why? >> apparently the first alarm must have picked up something and cleared itself and over 20 minutes later a second alarm came in and that's what initiated the response. >> but when you get the first one -- >> right, right. >> you don't find the fire. why? >> that's a good question. of course unfortunately we have this problem a lot.

of course in a situation like this, we unfortunately have this problem a lot in which if they can't find the source of the smoke or the source of the problem, they sort of just go back to assuming it's nothing, and in this case probably something was going on. >> why isn't it part of the protocol that no matter what you call in the firefighters and let them figure it out? >> it's the time. you don't have the time to wait and find the fire. so it's important that to get the fire department on the road quickly and everything and of course if there's no fire then they simply go back. but you can never play catch up. as we say in the fire service. >> so that's what happened here? >> yeah. >> you were playing catch-up. >> right. >> and all the factors were against you. certainly time, location. >> size. >> because it's just hard to get to it. >> right. >> you'll see the points of ingress and egress. there is really only two of them. and that's going to be a problem. we do know that if i can draw on this thing now we know that we

had a couple of water ships here and a couple of engines here. that doesn't sound like a lot to fight a fire like this. >> no, no, it's not. of course here in new york city of course we had a much larger response and everything. the fire department is much larger. in any case, this was a major challenge for the paris fire department here. >> and they had a water source, obviously, but they were coming from far away, and the hose trucks did what they could. >> right. >> but once it got hot, like you explained last night that. >> couldn't fight from the inside. so you had all this manpower figuring out how to do it from the outside. now the roof burn winds up being relevant. inside this roof you showed us last night, wood. we now know no sprinklers. you showed us wood and compartments around the stone. now we hear no firewalls. significance. >> major significance. this is what we called a concealed area, basically. the fire is burning above these vaulted ceilings here, and it

makes it impossible from the inside to attack it because it's in a space that you can't access easily until it burns through the roof. and of course as you know, these are relatively small areas. very difficult to access, hard to get up there. so fighting a fire like this is almost impossible. >> no sprinklers. no firewalls. >> right. >> do you this is common? we don't have a lot of cathedrals. 850 or something years old. but this is like common that they don't have these things? >> yeah, it's very common, actually. most of these churches that sort of go back from 1900 on back in the united states, most of them do not have sprinklers. they're subject to a lot of the same issues here even though this is a much larger building. and they also don't have any compartmentalization up there. it's a wide open space. >> so word to the wise, it could have been retrofitted. >> it could be. >> we're always thinking about how we raise money for churches and synagogues. i'm sure you get appeals at your places of worship. this is something to put on the list with the board about whether or not you're up to

spec because you can have something completely beautiful, irreplaceable and vulnerable to something that you could stop. >> these all predate any building codes around there so a lot of stuff should be a focus. spend a little bit of money now instead of avoiding a disaster later. >> now, this is the inside. we know that a lot of this was charred up. did you hear today that the votive candles. i was trying to figure out where they are. this is the altar, obviously. this is the nave. i don't know where the votive candles -- they would probably be in the back somewhere. >> right. >> they were still lit. >> right. >> how do you explain that? they weren't melted up from fire. they were still lit. how did that happen? let's look around the back here. >> i guess they were shielded from the fire and a little bit of divine intervention here too. >> right. you're a scientist, but isn't that something a little bit weird? >> right, right. it is. it is apparently like i said it was shielded away from the main

area of the roof that was consumed. something that was burning in hot. does that tell you something about it being more isolated up above than we thought early on? >> that's where the bulk of the fire was for the majority of this fire. once the roof collapsed, of course, it brought everything down to floor level basically. and that collapse in retrospect probably helped save those twin towers, the bell towers because it removed the large amount of fire that was up there and sort of moved it away from that location, because as you saw last night, there were firefighters with hose lines up in the bell tower trying to prevent fire from coming in. when you moved that away, that probably helped them a lot i imagine. >> how big a deal is 23 minutes? >> that's a big deal in the fire world. a fire can typically double in size every minute, basically. >> double in size every minute? >> straight forward fire can easily double in size every minute. time is always of the essence. what we see on television isn't really very accurate, television

programs and stuff. in the real world, fires can drop very, very quickly. and again, a situation like this, you can't get access to the building, you can't get up there to put the fire out. the quicker you get there, the better outcome it's going to be. we don't know. in retrospect, this will tell us exactly what happened and how it started and what if any effect that the delay had, but that's things that need to look at. >> two-thirds of the timber frame is gone. what does that mean in terms of rebuilding? >> looking at this now, this gives them an opportunity to rethink this building basically structurally. so this is an opportunity to come up with more maybe 21st century technology to make this happen, even though the inside will look just as it did before, the actual skeleton of the building basically may look much different. >> rebuild but actually renovate. >> right. >> and make it what it was but even better and up to standards

of today so god forbid you don't go through this again. >> sprinklers all those things. >> one question. you've been doing this a long time. that spire collapses down, sits in that oven, that crucible for hours. a copper. >> right, rooster. >> rooster survives it intact. what are the chances? >> the chances are remote, right? so the fact is that it's incredible that that -- actually that artifact survived. maybe divine intervention here again. >> the fispire is gone. >> right. >> it's all wood. >> what it sat on top of, not the highest flashpoint. >> no, no. >> right. no this is a remarkable situation here with the survival of that rooster. >> i am shocked by what remained. lit votive candles. this copper rooster. that had relics inside of it. >> i didn't know that. >> professor, we learn more every day and we learn more because of you. thank you so much. sorry for the technical difficulties. i'll blame everybody else. so our other big story tonight is that americans have waited nearly two years to find

out the conclusions from special counsel bob mueller. answers are supposed to come in less than 48 hours but what will we get? and there's a reason to worry tonight that we didn't really focus on before. this attorney general, as i have argued to you before on this show, has a track record. he has shown you who he is. tonight we'll expose something very to similar to what's going to happen on thursday. we'll expose what happened and litigate what it means this time. cuomo's court in session, next. things will be tight but, we can make this work. ♪ now... grandpa, what about your dream car? this is my dream now. principal we can help you plan for that .

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the mueller report is supposed to come out thursday morning. if you think you already know what's in it based on the attorney general's four-page memo of principle conclusions, think again. why? look, the past is prologue. 30 years ago when he was the head of the office of legal council under george h.w. bush before he was the attorney general, barr himself authored a controversial memo arguing that the fbi had the right to abduct people in other countries. subject matter isn't what really matters here. it's about the transparency. congress demanded to see the memo.

instead of releasing it, barr handed over a much shorter memo to summarize the principle conclusions. sound familiar? it later emerged that his summary was misleading, leaving out key controversial sections. what does that mean for what's going to happen to us in a couple of days? let's bring in laura coates and michael isikoff for cuomo's court. it's good to see you both. michael, did you hear us talking about you in the tease with anderson? >> i did. >> he accused me of dating you. i said did you see the head of hair on that guy? he could be my son. >> and hat tip to ryan goodman for reminding me of the story i wrote 30 years ago because i hadn't thought about it in quite some time. >> now that you had a chance to refresh your recollection -- >> yes. >> what are the lessons we should think about today? >> first, it's a reminder of bill barr's legal world view which is he is an extremely strong executive power guy who

believes that the president has under article 2 of the constitution inherent authority to take whatever steps he deems necessary to defend the country, and if that clashes with international law, so be it. and that was the case that barr laid out for the george h.w. bush administration in 1989 when the president, then president wanted to invade panama and snatch manuel noriega and bring him back to miami to face drug trafficking charges. and barr gave the bush white house exactly the opinion it was looking for, and he was, as ryan goodman has reminded us, based on the story i did when i finally got my hands on the memo a few years later, barr was not totally transparent about the

legal basis that he laid out in that memo. >> all right, laura, the pushback is listen, you work the system that you're in. he argued at the time that tradition and ordinary guidelines and practice of the olc, the same way he does about the doj was to keep stuff secret and to only release what you need to and to protect different categories of information. that's what he was doing then. that's what he is doing. now your concerns. >> well, certainly we are in extraordinary times. this seems to be the complete poster child for that old phrase "trust but verify." certainly there is some prerogative to be exercised by the attorney general of the united states. however, when you have the just trust me, trust is the summation or the dentistlation will contain every single nuance, will contain every single devil's advocate point.

we have a very hard time in this extraordinary time when we're questioning whether this should be extended to the head of the president of the united states and people in his campaign. this blanket assertion that he should in fact be trusted or gwynn this whole comprehensive take is what is most concerning based on what happened in the 80s. remember, his argument back then did not withstand the scrutiny of congress. the arguments about the extraordinary circumstances, why the people should not see it, and why a subpoena was ultimately successful actually behooves him to learn the lessons of yesterday. >> well, it seems like we're following the same path. then you can go and look at it on your own time if you're watching the show. congressman edwards was in charge of it at that time, and barr argued, listen, we don't usually release this stuff so, i'm not releasing it now. i'll give you a summary just because i'm being nice. what you talking about? i have a whole book of opinions that were released. i'm looking at it right now.

and barr basically retreated to the same argument, well, only in extraordinary circumstances. >> right, but a little context here. >> please. >> 25 years later, the obama justice department wrote legal memos justifying not snatching people overseas, assassinating them through drone strikes. and guess what? they refused to release those memos to congress or to the public. there was a huge controversy on it, about it. when i got my hands on the first -- on a white paper that laid out the actual legal reasoning in those memos, guess what? it was very different than the public rationale that eric holder and other obama administration officials had given for the legal authority to assassinate people overseas. >> good. >> so this is not unique to william barr. lack of transparency by the justice department is something

that spans many years and both parties. and, you know, i don't think we should necessarily single out william barr here as somebody whose very different than a lot of other justice department officials. >> well argued, true and fair point. so let me bounce it on to you, laura. this is what happens. people work the system to their advantage when they are in power and my question to you is do you believe when this comes out people will only see in it, assuming they can see things. if the redactions are there, congress is going to fight. they're going to say they have a right to it. but eventually, when people see what is in this, do you believe they are going to see what they wanted to see all along? >> i mean the nature of these black ink redactions shows it will really be an ink blot test to a lot of people. they'll have a partisan lenses and they'll be thinking about which category to assign it to.

whether it's idea of classified information or this dangerous area of the peripheral third parties who may be prejudice is probably going to be the most problematic in defining who is actually considered to be peripheral and why would they have been prejudiced. people will look at it that way, and there is good reason, by the way, to have different categories of redactions. but ultimately, this does not fall necessarily along partisan lines. frankly, the american people do have a vested interest in understanding what a 22-month investigation paid for by tax dollars will say. having said that, however, i think the biggest concern based on the prior context that michael just provided and you were talking about, chris, is whether or not that inkblot test or all those redactions will actually be misleading to the american people and/or congress about the true assistanstance o was found and what was investigated. and that is why it's going to be a very big problem presumably. >> i think as you saw during the

obama administration as to your context of the point, congress has a lot of leeway in terms of what it can sue and get. how long does it take, and ultimately what difference does it make, i think those are much more intriguing yeses at this point. laura coates, thank you so much. michael isikoff, not a day over 25, and yet you provide us such rich perspective. thank you, my brother. i appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> best to both of you. today the president said something that we have literally never heard from a president before. it actually involves him being ticked off at fox news. i will bring in d-lemon for his grand deliberation, next.

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>> presidential candidate bernie sanders repeatedly laid into this president last night in a fox news town hall. oddly, the president seemed offended that this was even happening, like he was being cheated on. look at his quote, so weird to watch crazy bernie on fox news. not surprisingly, brett baer and the audience was so smiley and nice. very strange. and now we have donna brazile. why did i emphasize we? because it deserves emphasis. we have donna brazile? the president is referring to himself and fox collectively if in their hiring of the former dnc chair and cnn analyst, now as a commentator on fox. let's bring in d. lemon. what else do you need to know? >> duh, duh. it shows you how he views the relationship, the cozy relationship that he has with state-run television that we talk about all the time.

it is an echo chamber. he sees something there, and then he all of the sudden makes it his mission to say what they say, repeat what they say, and then make it a sort of a campaign thing. so i mean, i'm not shocked by it. are you? >> yep. the idea that he actually says it. he actually says me and fox, like we're the same thing. >> yeah, well, you know, he talks about how he talks to sean hannity all the time. he calls him on stage at a campaign rally. what do you think? >> for a president to see a news organization as part of his administration with the "we." is that like the royal we or the affinity we? >> i'm sorry, chris cuomo, i'm don lemon. where have you been for the last few years? >> you never hear presidents say this. >> but you know the relationship he has with fox news. you know the relationship fox news has with him. >> but to say it? >> he is emboldened by a lot of things.

maybe he let the truth slip out. but i think he's aware that people know that. he looks at them as an extension of the republican party and also of the white house and so i'm not shocked that he feels that way. maybe i should be a little bit that he said it but yeah he actually said it. what was interesting to me, mr. cuomo. >> yes? >> was that bernie sanders said a whole lot of things on fox news that their viewers don't hear, and they're going wait, what are you talking about? they probably had to go and google it and they still don't believe it because he was actually speaking truth and facts to that audience. >> it's the end of 100 years of solitude, the book. >> an audience that's used to listening to the ideas that have been reinforced about. >> that's true. this is what i don't like about it. you've got a lot of good people who work there. you have a lot of good people who watch. >> absolutely. >> i started at fox news. i don't like them all being colored with this. i don't like that the president

put them on them. then he put out another tweet during this show. this one is easier to analyze and take heat off the people that care about their jobs and the people that watch. because they care about what's going on in the country. many trump fans and signs were outside the fox studios and thank you, president trump, bethlehem, pennsylvania for the interview with crazy bernie sanders. big complaints with not being let in, stuffed with bernie supporters. by the way, we don't have any proof that any of that is true. what has he done for bethlehem steel? he said he would bring back coal and steel. it hasn't happened in that city. what is he talking somebody. >> look, i don't know. that's another thing. >> defend him. no, i'm kidding. make your point. >> what is wrong with them having bernie supporters? you want the people who are going to vote for that candidate in the primaries, and in the caucuses that's who you want there. so his tweet makes absolutely no sense as many of them don't make sense. >> it makes perfect sense if you are a jilted lover, if you're somebody who expects loyalty.

>> so if you want to know about what's coming out in this mueller report. >> yes. >> if you really, really, really want to know, if you want to know where the president has the most exposure in the southern district of new york. >> yes. >> you know who you get? >> who? >> the form district attorney >> who? >> the former attorney for the southern district of new york, and guess who that is? >> on your show? >> coming up on this show. >> i thought he was out of town. >> he is here. >> good for you, lemon. i'll see you in a second. we know what is gone in paris, and it is important to speak to what remains. but i see some things that i believe are signs of hope, and some of them are just straight up freaky, and i'm going to lay them out for you, next. billions of mouths.

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aspiration she fed in people. that's what we do. we also pledge to undo the damage. and to do it again in record time. and hopefully not just rebuild. certainly they have to upgrade some of the systems that made this worse than it should have been, according to the preliminary investigator results. you don't just rebuild, you renovate. you make her something more than what she was, you make her new by these standards. certainly there must be real attention to detail of replacing the frescoes and the architecture. remember, she was built over numerous periods. also think about how do you capture the spirit of what she's supposed to mean and also embrace some of the technology of today to enhance that

message, enhance her history, enhance what she can give to people? now, before all that planning, or maybe as part of it, we have to look for signs that this is about something bigger than us. for example, you remember this, right? the girders found at ground zero in the shape of the cross? i was there. that was huge for people, restored of a faith no matter what they believed. and you could say, oh, it's just random, or it isn't. you remember the flag they found, singed but still there. metaphor. very powerful as a message in the moment. those signs told us that everything that matters isn't gone, even though there was so much loss. something worthy remained. and that's the right focus. if that's the case, and i believe it is here as well, then you're going to be aiming for something better. here are my three reasons, three signs for me. one, that front facade could have gone down. we know there was fire in at least one of those towers.

but it didn't. the flames fell short. the men who were fighting, the first responders, they got in and saved the face of our lady. she's incomplete but there. the spire is gone. two, that copper rooster, the symbol of france, survived that crucible. it was at the top of the spire. the spire falls in. we all saw that. it is now laying in an oven for hours intact. look at the man holding it. the rooster is intact. i know copper has a high flash point. my point was what metal is going to withstand that much heat in those many hours, and how is it not crushed? heat, time and circumstance, and yet it survived. in fact, when we were watching the event yesterday, i took this picture of the screen. i couldn't believe there were birds that seemed to be staying with our lady, even when she was engulfed in fire. i just thought it was a weird juxtaposition. now it turns out the rooster

survived. kind of eerie, but not really because eerie means evil and it's inspiring. if you're saying, shut up with your hocus-pocus. guess what survived? the rooster, including the crown of thorns. the archbishop called the rooster a spiritual lightening rod to protect the parishioners inside. come on, what are the chances? not good. it's a sign. we should take it as a motivator that there is more to this cause than the return of steel install. this is not about faith, certainly not about religion. it's about looking for proof that there is something soulful here, something worthy for us to come together, and that's my third sign. the most powerful to my point, the people.

inside despite all the fire, the votive candles lit by people from everywhere in this world were never touched by flame. hellfire by our lady, and the people have come to answer what could be her prayers as well. they came to her in her hour of need. they mourned her in paris, in america, in europe, all over the world, watching her burn, feeling that pain, watching the coverage, feeling the toxic wastelands of social media with positivity and aspirational notions of the need to come together to match the magnitude of the mess many times over with a message that what matters most remains. the basic reality that we are all in it together, interconnected, interdependent. the people are the church, not the places. and that is all that need remain. us and our will to do better. rebuild our lady, but even more importantly, renovate it. money is pouring in from all over the world. you heard the cardinal, he wants us to chip in here in new york.

adorned as much as she was when she survived. my hope is in this tragedy we see opportunity. we see signs, we look at how we came together. a sense of collective purpose, donations, do-gooders. simply people showing compassion. these are the signs i'm talking about. hearts and minds of a collective soul of goodwill. i haven't seen it burn this bright, and the cause of repairing and restoring beauty. crowds like this in these days are fueled most by anger and opposition. but not here. this is about what remains and the signs that show us it's worth coming together and we are stronger together. and hopefully she will be back with us soon. that's our show for tonight. i'm running late. let me get to d. lemon right now. >> you are running late -- >> sorry. >> come on. i've got two hours. you did a really good job educating people about what you call our lady, the notre dame cathedral. i'm sure your family is very