thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. this is a special edition of reliable sources. as we all start to consume the mueller report and as it all sinks, sarah sanders is a press secretary with zero credibility. why does she still have a job? we'll discuss that this hour. plus the pro-trump spin machine spinning out of control. we'll unpack some of the double standards that are on stark display. nc also, a behind the scenes look at how reporters landed some of the biggest scoops

during the mueller probe. we'll take you behind the saens -- scenes of cnn stake outs. where do we begin? with the number one book in america. the mueller report. it reveals a house of lies. a wlohite house of lies. lies like nothing this nation has seen before. i take no joy in saying this but deceit is the story of the trump age. it's the story. past administrations have bent the truth but trump's white house breaks the truth in half and then lies about breaking it. it's broken us in half or maybe into thirds. some americans are sick of the deceptio deceptions. others have become immune to it and others have accepted it. if you backed trump you made peace with the lying or you convinced yourself that people like me are lying about him. you convinced yourself that the media is the real enemy. that's one of the reasons why

this report is so important. it's a detailed description of who, what, when, where and how. the lies are listed in clinical detail. will it change minds? maybe not. it's important nonetheless. it's important to have the historical record. it reaffirms so much of the reporting from the past two to three years. reporting about trump and russia. about all those ties.footnotes. mueller mentions cnn, the new york time, the washington post, more than 200 times. that's a whole lot of real news. trump's fans have been conditioned not to trust well, anyone but president trump and the outlets he approves. we'll get into that later. my two cents is pay attention to the big lies. i know some folks are exhausted by the daily deceptions, the small lies from trump world. trump and his allies are telling big lies. the most popular one is no

obstruction. no obstruction at all. the attempts to obstruct are screaming all the page. i guess my point is, there's no conspiracy found in the mueller report. there's no integrity either. what's the role of the press in this broken environment? in part, our role is to keep collecting facts. all the facts so citizens can make up their own minds. i think it's also our role to stand up for decency and morality especially if others won't. jou journalists work with a code of ethics. we try to enforce standards. when we fall down, we try to learn from those mistakes. just listen to what one of the president's lawyers rudy giuliani said to chris cuomo the other day about morality. here is what rudy said. >> if we're going to start making moral judgments about everybody in public office, we'll have nobody in public office. >> we can do better than that.

jou journalists can help lead the way by talking about morality and ethics. if t if the people in charge aren't. here to break it down, katy roge rogers, vox co-founder. tim, let me start with you. it's easter morning. i think sometimes the media has a hard time talking about morality. talking about ethics. it's not in our language the way that law, basic things like law are. how do we make morality more of the conversation now that we have seen this 448 page report with so much immoral behavior? >> i think you start by saying we're awe all flawed. then you ask what kind of

character, what kooinind of stad of character do you want in someone who represents the flag and the country. as someone who ran a presidential library, what struck me most painfully in volume two in the obstruction of justice volume was the number of times president trump either himself or instructed others to create false records. false historical records that would mean in the future people wanting to understand our government would not be able to. to my view, that's one of the most egregious and dishonorable things to try to create a false record. there's four instances where they were able to determine the president ordered someone to do it or did it himself. to my mind that makes the president unfit because if he's not willing to let us understand how he uses the power that we granted him, then why is he our representative. >> i think this thing is just

starting to sink in, 72 hours lat later. there's a reason why it's number two and number two and number three on amazon. the details weren't the first surface headline. you have to really digest it to understand. katy rogers, with that in mind, i was arguing earlier that lying is the through line of the trump presidency and the mueller report has new examples of this. do you think journalists there at the new york times and elsewhere have figured out how to cover the deceptions and dishonesty? >> i think that journalists have been covering the deceptions and dishonesty since the beginning of the trump presidency. i think the report confirms a lot of that reporting either through witness, through government officials and there's like kind of an exhaustive paper trail there. i think that the opportunities going forward is to stress the nuances of this report in terms of the 140 or some

communications the trump campaign had with russian officials or wikileaks. that's not a legal term but that's certainly excitement as detailed in the report. excitement, enthusiasm, a willingness to accept information from what is an adversarial government to the united states. you're right, as the pendulum swings back to these more detail summaries, the public will have more opportunity to see what 140 odd commune kaications added up. >> let's look at the last two years of reporting. the press has been leading the way. the mueller report confirmed a lot of what's been reported. this headline says journalists were right. at the same time there was way too much speculation in attempts to equity dconnect dots that di connect. there was stellar reporting and

too much speculation. they said michael cohen wasn't to prague which wasn't proven to be true. buzzfeed saying trump told cohen to lie was not confirmed. mueller's report says while there was evidence the president knew cohen provided false testimony, the evidence does not establish the president aided or directed cohen's false testimony. different law officials came up with different interpretations. all this is a long way of saying was the media vindicated by mueller report with some exceptions? >> the immediamedia's recording vindicated. i think there's two questions one is what is easier and what is harder. the l there are two things the mueller report asks of us. how do we think about reporting on the trump administration going forward? the mueller report is thick with

examples purposefully, repeatedly lying to reporters. going to them and listening to sarah huckabee sanders or adding their folks in for comment when you know they may straightforwardly be lying to you is tough. it's a challenge to our deepest protocols. the other thing is something we have not quite reckonned with. the first half is about whether trump coordinated with russia. there's not evidence of that directly. it should raise the question for us. we knew the e-mails were hacked. what happened here, is there was a crime committed to steal information from the democratic national committee and launder it through the press. we cooperated with that knowing what it was. i don't think the media is doing all that much self-reflection about the role that we played in making russia's operation successful. we're looking out ward quite a bit but not inward nearly enough. >> i'm talking about the trump

administration being unethical. there's questions to the press to think about what you're saying. the reporting involving hacked, stolen documents. what do you think should happen next time? let's play there out is out in . what's the right answer? >> i don't think i have the right answer. you know you don't always get good information from sources that are pure in intention. the thing that scares me most about this report beyond donald trump, not just that we have a lawless and dishonest administration now but you're seeing a play book. you're seeing a play book other countries will look at. russia has been rewarded for. it was very successful for them. the pay off of turning american governance in your direction is very big. it's worth doing it to make that happen. the press is an actor in that, we need to think about what that means. we need to think about what our role in that is. one that we know with the

relatively high degree of confidences that what we're getting is part of a crime. on the other hand, what way is that different from opposition research. it's not easy. this won't be the last time. we know it won't be. we know people are working to do this kind of thing right now. we need to think about what our ruberic is. >> it's about ethics, right practices. april, let's finish this first segment with you. how do you think journalists should be standing up for morality and decency when covering a white house that breaks all the norms? >> we have to cover the story. we have to see the fact for where it is and call the lie for where it is as well. in this white house, we hear what the spokesperson or the principal has to say and we go and get all sides of the story

and dig for the truth. the credibility is lacking in this white house as we have seen from the mueller report and over the past two years and go into the campaign. if behooves us as reporters and journalists not to take a slant and just accept what is said at this point. we have to dig deeper and look for the fact. it's about all sides of the story. it's not just about he said, she said. >> we have a lot more to get into with the panel. we'll get a quick break and get everybody back in a moment. i want to share a few questions i have heading into the new workweek. number one, when will we hear more from robert mueller? either in testimony or elsewhere. number two, will the redacted portions of his report come out? number three, will more democrats move to start an impeachment process and what's going to come of right wing's media demand to invest ga gatti investigators. mueller referred 14 investigations to other offices. 12 of those were totally

redacted. what are those? when will we find out? number six, will polls show any minds were changed by what we learned in this report? we're just getting start. the next question is why does sarah sanders still have a job? is it time for her to just walk away? much more in a moment. safe drivers have to pay as much for insurance... as not safe drivers! ah! that was a stunt driver. that's why esurance has this drivesense® app. the safer you drive, the more you save. don't worry, i'm not using my phone and talking to a camera while driving... i'm being towed. by the way, i'm actually a safe driver. i'm just pretending to be a not safe driver. cool. bye dennis quaid! when insurance is affordable, it's surprisingly painless. sarah's last tuition payment, sent off. feeling good? oh yeah. now i'm ready to focus on my project. ♪ ♪ this is why we plan.

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lanka. several hotels were bombed. at least 207 people were killed. troupely a sickening day in sri lanka. cnn has crews on the way to location. we'll have continuing coverage. that brings me to this next tweet of the president of the yie united states. the president learned about the bombings and tweeted 138 million people have been killed. he left the tweet up for more than 20 minutes. it was a really embarrassing error. i guess nobody around him caught it or fixed it for more than 20 minutes. it's a typo, what's the big deal? accuracy matters. it matters when you're sending condolences to a grieving nation. it matters for a government just like it matter for a news room. if someone can't get the little stuff right, it makes you wonder about the big stuff.

it makes you worry about the big stuff. it makes you wonder about the president's sources of information. his corrected tweet said that more than 600 people were injured. at the time no major news outlet was reporting the number 600. i don't think anybody is reporting that number now. what was his source? this is one of hundreds of examples of the president's sloppiness or his misinformation. i bring it up in the context of what's going on because in the wake of the mueller report, the lies from the white house have been making headlines. it's no wonder why trump's aides don't think twice about making stuff up. it's because tone starts at the top. witness sarah sanders who admitted that her may 2017 claims about countless fbi agents wanting james comey fired was not founded on anything. it was a slip of the tongue, she said, but it wasn't.

she made similar claims multiple times or two different days. she has no credibility left. yet in trump world, that reality might help her because when we point out that she's making stuff up, it makes the president hold onto her, support her, stand by her because she's taking it to the media. that's how twisted the eed this become. april, let's start with you because you have called for sanders to be fired. what's the likelihood, you think, that she actually is going to be out as a result of these lies? >> well, you know, i don't know. i say the reality is, it's about credibility. we are seeing this nation talk about the credibility of sarah huckabee sanders at the poeds y -- podium. in the clamoring continues, something will happen. i hear the white house is upset about this moment, these conversations about sarah

huckabee sanders and her tenure at the podium. here is the issue. under oath, she acknowledged she lied. under oath. that's not the only lie that has been told from that sacred room to the american public and the world. the reason why this is so important is because everything is in the balance at the white house. we are all touched by what happens and said said from the white house. war and peace, life and death are written and spoken from that podium or from the oval office. she's the president's mouthpiece. her credibility is shot. we got that one piece from mueller. we understand that. also, there's a list of things and more. i'll detail another one about the payment to stormy daniels. that was a lie. also that propaganda video against our colleague jim acosta. a propaganda video against jim

acosta. this is the united states not russia or china. credibility is a huge piece of the puzzle. her credibility is shot. >> you said that sarah sanders head should be lopped off. her father said you were inciting murder. were you trying to incite murder? >> do you have the whole transcript of what i said? >> i do. you were saying she should be fired. she should be forced out of the job and head lopped off in the rhetorical sense that everybody understands. >> i said it as they. not me. about the firing acts. we talk about people being fired. heads will roll. i do not push for orsupport any type of violence against anyone. i said what i said. it was not about violence.

it was about the chopping ax or the head rolling as far as the job. let's clean it up and say, she should be fired. period. end of story. >> katy rogers, sarah sanders job has changed over the past couple of years. she used to be holding briefings almost every day. right now it's been 41 days since a white house press briefing on kara camera. if she hits 42 days, that will be a record. what does she do now? what is her job every day now? >> well, sarah is well liked among the staff in the white house because she takes a lot of incoming. she is trusted by the president. she has a good relationship with him. in a white house that is run like the trump organization, her loyalty and her connection with him counts for a lot. she does answer questions from the press and given this latest story about her credibility called into question, i don't know how often but she does do her job.

she has a place, but she doesn't do briefings. those have kind of gone by the way side. that is because officials in the white house know that a lot of the things they might say to the public will be immediately undermined by the president or changed course by the president. that's not actually unique to this white house. we're not going to invade grenada and the invasion occurred the next day. jay carney took flak for what he said that was misleading about the affordable care act. it's not uncommon but this is typical in the white house . that's the difference. >> they just take it to 11. is there any history, any presence depre precedent for a press secretary being forced out? >> there is. people around richard nixon decided to move ron ziegler out

of a job because he lost his credibility by 1974. when his deputy was asked do you hate the press, his deputiy sai, no i don't. he did not get the official title of press secretary because to be press secretary for richard nixon you had to avowedly hate the press. this question was asked in front of richard nixon. >> my goodness. do you think bill barr is acting as press secretary? whatever that presser was on thursday. >> i'm surprised the attorney general hasn't decided to resign. the mueller report makes clear the kind of person the president expects to be his attorney general. he wants his attorney general to be his personal lawyer and a fixer. the question one has to ask mr. barr after working for george herbert walker bush, do you really want to be attorney general for someone who is

expecting you not to represent the justice system but to be his fixer? >> the last question, i think probably the really big question, impeachment. what i hear on fox is the media is obsessed about impeachment. where do you think this conversation is going to go in the days and weeks to come? >> i think impeachment is a hard question. i don't think there's any doubt that in a working system where you had the ability to enforce accountability on the president, the clear pattern of obstruction of justice would merit and should merit an impeachment inquiry. at the same time, you do not have any chance of getting the votes in the senate for impeachment, for removal. you also have a public that is largely, at least so far, according to a march cnn poll against impeachment. only 36% are for it. on the one hand impeachment inquiry is merited. on the other hand, their own

base really wants it. they believe it will unite republicans and split them. instead of pribringing the president to heel, it will help h him. it's tough. it's tough because we have a broken system of accountability. we are not supposed to have a system where accountability is partisan. impeachment like a lot of things neats needs a lot of bipartisan support for anything to get done. there's no bipartisan support to get it done. nixon's impeachment would not have gone forward in the way it had if republicans refused to participate. i it speaks not just to problems right now but a deeper system of

constitutional accountability. >> i would assign folks to interview republicans. let's interview those lawmakers about what they are doing to hold the president accountable. the silence, those answers might speak volumes. that will be part of the story going forward. katy, one more question. are we going to hear from the president? he's been tweeting a lot. we haven't seen him on camera since thursday afternoon. do you expect we'll hear from him? maybe a press conference or speech? >> he's got a lot of openings this week to do it starting with the easter egg roll tomorrow. i don't know if that's the right venue but he's got rally coming up this weekend. he has a rally coming up this weekend. he's speaking at the nra convention on friday. i think we will get an earful from him with the week ahead, for sure. >> everybody, thank you so much for being here. i'm grateful. taking a quick break. next, one mueller report, two worlds of coverage. i'll show you what i mean after

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randy newman singing us in there, you've got a friend in me. welcome back to "reliable sources." when you're going through a tough time, what do you do? most of us lean on friends and family. that is what the president is doing right now. embracing fox. promoting the network even more than usual. he's urging people to tune in and finding so llace in the spi.

he started come plplaining abou fox's town hall with bernie sanders. what are we doing? when the attorney general was about to hold his presser on thursday, trump wanted people to watch on his preapproved channels. he listed two of them there. at the end of the day he tweeted out a promo of fox prime time line up but tleedeleted it. the president knows he has a friend in fox. before the mueller report hit, a website called now this came out with a video that you have to see. >> what is wrong with this president? how dumb is he? >> the purpose of a journalist is to hold people in power accountable. >> we're going to vet the president. we'll talk about his vacation, golfing. >> two golf outings cost $2.9 million. that alone is amazing. >> should a president, the leader of the free world be on a social network tweeting? >> no. >> he's kind of a celebrity

president. he's like ryan seacrest. >> this the a president who doesn't know what he wants to do. he wants to be popular with every audience. >> the president seems almost obsessed with cable tv or am i wrong? >> he rules by executive authority. executive action. >> when he's not doing executive actions he's out on the golf course. >> the president heads to florida for a boys weekend of golf. >> he's the den beneficiary of division. >> a sitting president doesn't criticize his predecessor by name. >> has any president in your lime time taken on this kind of tone, this kind of harness towards a single media outlet? i've never seen this before. >> the president doesn't know exactly what to do correctly. >> the president's budget that he gave today doesn't cut any deficit. it increases the debt.

>> he's not doing it. it's like golf, mr. president. you play a lot of that. >> he's not acting like the most transparent president in history. >> what's in those records that you don't want us to know about. >> the worst regimes and thugs and dictators. >> he's ignoring the rule of law and siding with law brakebreake. >> once the president tweets it then it's fact. >> he's in love with campaigning. >> while vacationing in florida on your dime. that's not ou politics works. >> this is a president who has become a blamer.

>> he never makes any concessions. treats his opponents as enemies. >> we have a president who can never admit he's wrong. he's so insecure and vain at the same time. >> he doesn't realize the president has the power to set a tone and other people follow it. >> what he's really trying to do is to devied thivide the countr. >> he doesn't like being mocked. maybe he's a little thin skinned. >> i've been saying mr. president, put your pants on. sit at the table and man up. >> skip the trash talk. >> if you want to work with somebody, you don't call them names. >> this is a kick and easy way to score political points. it's a terrible way for the president of the united states to govern a country. >> talk in an aspirational way to people and be more positive and uplifting. >> stop acting like a schoolyard bully and start acting like the leader of the free world. >> mr. president, every one is laughing at us. you're like a schoolyard bully. no one is afraid of you.

putin isn't. >> maybe you stop looking at a tv tuned to fox and look to it tuned to you. >> thank you very much. >> the double standard that exists here is nothing short of incredible. >> imagine. just imagine if fox's right wing most hosts talked about trump the way they talked about barack obama. we'll have a lot to say about this, next. - you know, there are a million reasons

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one mueller report but two worlds of coverage. we're talking about fox's hypocrisy and much more. i have two guests here with me. jay, to you first. you wrote that the president and his supportest exist in aen information loop where all they

learn from trump is from trump. how do you diagnose this? what's going on? >> it's as if one third of the public has been broken off from the rest of the electorate and isolated in an information system of its own. >> you think it's that's bad? it's that stark? >> i do. it's not only that they are inclined to trust the president more than the news system, it's that the white house and trump himself is trying to eviscerate facts on which the country can disagree and argue about. i think that goes way beyond the notion of bias in the media or look skeptically at what you are told. it's actually an awe tuthoritar news system that's up and running. i think it's extraordinary. we don't know always have the language we need to talk about it. >> i don't think we do.

there are media critiques that i hear from the right. i hear a lot on fox news that's just hateful. let me show a few examples from the last few days. >> there's not a single news room in america that is been more right than the team we have assembled right here on this show. >> that's the wrong sound bite although hannity claiming he's a reporter, don't get me started. there's been this message on fox that the immediate wmedia was w russia and trump. you can't believe a word we report. laura ingraham said we should apologize for it. here's the clip. >> here is the media looking ridiculous. >> this today, mark this day, is the biggest beat down the media mob has ever experienced in history. >> the mainstream media is having a hard time letting go of their favorite hoax. >> relentless, rerepresepetitiv

dishonest. >> you owe us an apology. >> what is all that hating on journalists all about in. >> the republican party for a lock ti long time has used populist appeals to try to get elected. i think that method has been taken much further. now we see almost a fusing of political identity, hatred of the media and support for donald trump at the same time. >> all the same thing. >> all one thing. >> you're saying those immediate wra critiqk -- media critiques are trying to perform politics in. >> yeah. that kind of criticism isn't trying to reform the media. it can't be addressed by improving performance. it's a hate movement led by the president of the united states. it's gone to the point of where robert mueller is about the most consensus figure you could have in american culture.

his investigation is about as good as we can do in establishing an independent report of the facts. the kind of rejection of the report, the idea that everything that the media reported was false, the calls for apologies like we just saw are more than just critique of bias. they are now trying to reject the entire idea of a public record or of a historical record as we heard earlier in the show. that's what's at stake. it's not just left and right or a media bias. it's the whole idea there can be a public record of fact on which we can argue and disagree. >> this brings me back thinking about watergate. if say richard nixon had a fox news and had this right wing media echo system, what would have happened with nixon? >> i think you would have seen a

really different conversation around watergate and probably a really different outcome. if president nixon had been able to amplify his arguments about a witch hunt in the media, if he had been able to dissecret tcre investigations, discredit the special counsel, that support would crumble to about 25% of americans by the end of his term probably wouldn't have crumbled and the republican party, the office holders in the house and senate would have been a little more pushed to hold the party line. >> some good for thought for sunday morning. it's some pretty bad, gross food for thought. it's a reality check about where we are in 2019. there's this information loop. do you see any way to break out of it? >> i think it's a really difficult thing to break out as long as there are economic and political incentives to keep it

going. that's the real challenge here is that there are people who get a lot of power and a lot of money from the system as it's currently conditistituted. if you can't change that, it will be difficult to dismantle that system. >> nicole, jay, i wish we had a more optimistic note to end on. thank you both. quick break here and behind the scenes of these stake outs. we're talking about how some of the mueller scoops were gained plus what's next for reporters on the trump-russia beat? and your mother told me all her life that i should fix it. now it reminds me of her. i'm just glad i never fixed it. listen, you don't need to go anywhere dad. meet christine, she's going to help you around the house. the best home to be in is your own. from personal care and memory care, to help around the house, home instead offers personalized in-home services for your loved ones. home instead senior care. to us, it's personal.

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the untold story of the mueller probe. there's a hollywood vision of how journalism happens, secret meetings and dark parking garages, that sort of thing, but the reality looks more like this conference room at cnn's d.c. bureau, a dozen people combing through the mueller report on thursday, three dedicated printers on standby.

one of the reporters in that room was cnn's senior writer kaitlin polance. she is with me now. tell me about the stakeouts the past 18 months. cnn had a team of young reporters staked out, outside mueller's office every day since november 2017. >> every weekday from 6:00 a.m. until most of the prosecuteors went home at about 5:00 every day. we had basically they split 2-2, one for the first year, one for the second year. the producer sam fossum, carolyn kelly and liz stark, they saw prosecutors coming in every day, saw robert mueller coming into the office every day with very few exceptions, a couple exceptions and they really did see witnesses going in, they saw defense attorneys. we were able to identify how much activity was going on in the office. >> here is an example. you all were seeing pictures what was this lawyer's name, tom green, he was a white collar attorney pictured one day coming out of the office.

you all found out that he was working with who, with rick gates? >> we did. we saw a photo of tom green or we took a photo of tom green going into the office, didn't initially know who he was, but then recognized him. i was able to recognize him and then made calls around to sources saying who is he representing? what is he doing? why is someone so well-known in washington for white collar defense doing this? >> there is the scoop as a result. new signs gates might be negotiating a plea deal. >> we were able to break the news he was negotiating for rick gates well before any other news organization and green came into the courtroom at the last minute to represent gates and take it through the plea. it really was a turning point for the entire investigation. >> the stakeout was also valuable because it gave us a signal that roger stone might be about to be arrested. that's how cnn gained that video of stone at his home, when fbi agents rolled up one friday. right when you figure he's made up lies about how cnn was tipped off, total nonsense, but really it was the stakeout once again. >> it was.

we were practiced at understanding what the prosecutors were doing, what was happening in the court system and enough activity on a thursday that seemed unusual, prosecutors were at the court, one prosecutor left the office with a rolling suitcase on a thursday afternoon a little bit early, and we were prepared to see the possibility of an indictment against stone and thought now must be the day, and we were in florida there in the morning. >> cnn sent a different crew to a different state staking out another person who wasn't arrested. some of it was luck, some skill, some of it was timing. what do you think happens next? what happens for reporters like you on this beat for years at this point? where is the trump/russia story go? >> there is a lot to cover. in this document there is an enormous amount of redactions, a lot of them are pertaining to ongoing matters that includes roger stone's case. he's going to trial in the fall and there could be things we learn we can't see because

they're redacted but could come out at trial. >> there's a lot the 12 cases that were redacted given to other offices, we had to learn about that. these trials may go on for years. >> it could. there are trials for stone. >> stone is months away? >> november it's scheduled for right now. >> foreign governments trying to influence our elections is 2020 and beyond. this tells us how it happened, how the attacks succeeded wildly and gives us signs how to avoid it in the future. >> absolutely. the internet research agency portion of this, the part where robert mueller dug into what russians were doing online on social media to spread propaganda through the american electorate that effort continues. we've already had an addition indictment from the justice department outside the mueller investigation against a person

who was a russian allegedly doing this still in the midterm elections and it seems this is the sort of thing that we'll be facing for years to come. >> news have to figure out how to react and cover it and keep people informed. you have the binder, all the notes. >> thanks to cnn wash. >> i ordered a copy on amazon, nice to have a print edition for the bookshelf. number one on amazon. great to see you. thanks for joining us on this televised edition of "reliable sources." our coverage goes on all the time online on cnn.com. sign up our nightly newsletter and listen to our podcast. next sunday night, van jones with redemption project at 9:00, starting next sunday and united shades of america at 10:00, next sunday here on cnn. see you back here next sunday as well.

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easter massacre. hundreds of people injured and killed in a series of horrific bombings across sri lanka. the violent blasts targeting hotels popular with foreigners, and christian worshippers celebrating easter morning in church. >> it's over, folks. >>