i don't talk about myself in the third person, nor does anyone at cnn. >> that wolf blitzer, the best beard in the business. he's wolf blitzer and he's in "the situation room." >> okay. wolf is allowed to talk however he wants. he's the hardest working guy in television. you should hear his beard talk in the second person. it's weird. as for president trump, anderson cooper will be looking for him and his very, very large brain on the ridiculist. that does it for anderson cooper. i'll hand it over to chris cuomo for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> thank you, mr. cooper. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." new information that homeland security was told not to even mention addressing russian interference or how to stop it with this president. could congress add this to a potential abuse of power charge? hillary clinton has some ideas of what they could do with it. she charts a path for congress to follow, but does her voice help or hurt the situation? and tonight, some of

president trump's financial records are being handed over to new york's attorney general. will she find fuzzy math when she digs into documents about his loans? plus, he spreads hateful messages, cozies up to white supremacists and demonizes immigrants, so how is congressman steve king suffering like jesus? the congressman made the comparison and we will take it up in the closing argument. what do you say? let's get after it. so here's the question. is the president's refusal to admit that russia interfered, are his efforts to try to obstruct the russia probe all about protecting the legitimacy of his victory? now, this is that mr. mueller could not rule out as a motivating factor, and now we have news that the president may be putting his political security before your national security. and that could spell trouble for us and him. here's what we know.

before nielsen was ousted as homeland security secretary, she reportedly tried to warn the president about ongoing threats from russia in the 2020 election. "the new york times" says she was stopped by chief of staff mick mulvaney. why? he wanted her to steer clear of the subject because the president equates interference with the legitimacy of his own election. mulvaney says he didn't recall the conversation. let's bring in former dni james clapper, who once was able to brief president-elect trump on meddling, and another intel veteran, former congressman mike rogers. could not ask for better guests for this. gentlemen, thank you and thank you for coming together tonight. >> thanks for having us. >> all right. jim, should we be -- go ahead, mike. what do you got? >> i just want to say happy anniversary to jim clapper. it's his 54th wedding anniversary today. he and his wife, sue. >> what is the secret? >> chris, there is no place i'd rather be than right here, right now with you and chairman mike.

>> wow. i know there is one woman who is not happy you gave that answer. what's the secret to 54 happy years? >> my wife is very patient. >> all right. that works. that works. well, then i got that going for me. i have a patient wife as well. all right. let's talk about somebody who is impatient, the president of the united states. he doesn't like what's going on right now. mike rogers, the idea of this story at "the new york times" that nielsen went and said, look, i want to start and get going on 2020, i have ideas. stand down. we don't -- the president doesn't even want to talk about this. it is -- goes to whether or not he thinks it is bad for his legitimacy as president. what do you make of that? >> well, it's concerning, and, unfortunately, i think it bolsters some of what we saw in the mueller report about the dysfunction of the management style inside the white house. now, there's two sides to this story, chris. the intelligence community wasn't told to stand down in the sense that they said don't do anything, they went out and did their job. as a matter of fact, i would argue the ic, the intelligence community, did a pretty good job in 2018 of trying to get ahead

of this problem. it would have been easier had there been that top-down cover and support and kind of reassurance. you want that coming out of the nsc. you want it coming out of the president. having them say we just can't talk about it i think is a weakness for the president, it's a weakness for the administration and it just makes the job of the ic that much more difficult as they roll into 2020. >> now, jim, is it a weakness that can be parlayed into a strength for congressional oversight? can they go down the road of taking what's in the mueller report, taking something like this, taking the idea of oppose every subpoena and say this is an abuse of power, this is somebody who is misusing their office by commission and omission? >> well, they could, and, you know, fundamental responsibility of the president as commander in chief is the safety and security of this -- of this country, our national security. and from the get-go, from the first time he was briefed on this as a candidate, and

certainly on january 6th, 2017, there was always this apparent skepticism about the russian meddling. which i don't know how he can have any doubt left after reading the mueller report, which i think is one of the most important contributions that report makes. so to me it is really an abdication of his fundamental responsibilities. the other point i'd make is it is not sufficient just to dwell on the cyber security. securing voter registration rolls, tabulation mechanisms and all that. the other thing that is really missing here, a huge vacuum, is the leadership of the president and the bully pulpit that only he occupies about questioning what you see, read and hear on the internet because of the impact of social media -- this social media campaign that the russians maintained. and we haven't had that from him. lots has been done to improve things since the last administration. but on an individual department

by department basis, not with the galvanizing impact of presidential leadership. >> so, mike, if you take off the intel hat and put on the congress hat as a republican and, you know, a lifelong republican, the idea of it being laid out, even if pretty good, even if it's a pretty good case, he tried to stop the proceedings when he didn't like the probe because he didn't want them digging into russian interference because he thought it was bad for his legitimacy. when it came to whether or not fight russian interference going forward, he wouldn't have any audience on it because he didn't want to deal with it, he thought it was bad for him. when it came to dealing with congress, he wouldn't let his people cooperate and fought it all with subpoenas and executive privilege claims that fell short. is that enough to get a republican to go against a president of their own party? >> well, i mean, i would hope that they'd stand up for trying to get the president to stand up for making sure the russians don't have this outsized influence in the 2020 election, including i think what general

clapper was references, is that social discontent. that's where they had their biggest success, candidly. as a matter of fact, we're still at each other's throats. the russians may have had at least a part to play in that whole thing. so i do think republicans are starting to stand up to those kinds of issues, and they should. remember, it's a confusing, maddening management issue and a weakness for the president that he's had since the day he walked into office, that he trusts no one, hi circle has gotten smaller and he's going to make decisions like i don't want to hear about it. you can go do it but i don't want to hear about it. that does make the ic's job easier. i hope what republicans are doing is pushing those narratives inside these hearings and inside the intel community to try to get the coalition built and going for 2020. that's where they can have the biggest impact. you know, i think people have staked out their positions on donald trump, and so i don't know -- i don't think the report really changed that. i really don't. so now i think the legislature has the responsibility of trying

to make sure that the elections are protected. they have a lot of sway with their budget authority in these intelligence agencies. if that's where it has to happen, my argument is then let's do it, let's do it there and then the president doesn't have to talk about it. >> jim, the idea of deutsche bank starting to turn over documents. this was a little bit fed by michael cohen. there was an ongoing look at them already. the theory of the case is they're one of the few that would lend lots of money to donald trump at the time of his campaign for presidency. they were his largest lender. and maybe he misstated asset values or maybe they had a reason that is less than worthy to be lending him all that money. where does that go for you? >> well, for me what i'm interested in would be any potential national security implications. i mean, i don't know what's there, but one of the things that's concerned me for some time has been, for example, financial entanglements with russia, which may have begun

well before he was a candidate, but which could have -- could carry over. you know, there's potential for leverage. so that's what i -- why i think this is pretty significant. >> but mike, don't you think we would have seen something about that in the mueller report? >> not necessarily. i think that the -- there's -- remember, there's 12 investigations that the mueller team kicked over, we presume. >> true. >> to other districts attorneys offices. i'm going to guess that some of that may have come out of -- because what they would look at even in the a.g. in new york, they'd be looking at bank fraud. i mean, that's a pretty clear-cut. if you overexaggerate your assets in order to secure a loan, that's bank fraud. you're not allowed to do it. because they went after cohen on bank fraud, my guess is he showed up with these documents and said, yeah, well, you got me. look at this. this is what the president did to secure loans somewhere else. i'm guessing that's exactly where that investigation is going, and i think you're going to see more of that as this

thing goes along because the mueller report's done and i think you'll find these jurisdictions feel like they have more leeway to get into the weeds on their investigations, whatever the other 12 were, i presume some of them are going to look just like this. >> full employment plan from mike rogers and jim clapper, to be sure. you'll have to help us through the weeds for awhile to come. gentlemen, thank you. and, hey, god bless you, your wife and the family, mr. clapper. thank you so much. 54 more years. >> yeah right. thanks, chris. thanks, mike. >> and, mike, thanks for the heads up. be well, fellas. all right. so mr. mueller himself said the evidence points to what "the new york times" just reported. so the question now is, well, what can congress do with this? what is this idea of an abuse of power, not for what he did but what he is refusing to do? i'll lay out the theory for you next. plus, hillary clinton's take on what should happen now post-mueller. what's her way forward? ahead.

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abuse of power. many months ago it seemed likely that this would be the most likely avenue of accountability for this president by this congress. not a crime but certainly something that congress could advance as a theory. the latest reporting that the president's chief of staff didn't even want russian election interference discussed, reportedly saying it "wasn't a great subject and should be kept below his level." his meaning the president. raises a question, why would potus want to avoid protecting our election?

what if the reason is because he put his political interest before even national security? now, that's not conjecture. that was the partial conclusion of bob mueller who said potus feared, "continued investigation would call into question the legitimacy of his election." and that's why potus tried as often as he did to hinder the probe. as a simple matter of fact, why would potus say this? >> russia did not help me, okay? >> i have president putin. he just said it's not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. >> i believe that he feels that he and russia did not meddle in the election. >> i don't think anybody knows it was russia that broke into the dnc. it also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay? >> you know who agrees with him? nobody. listen to his folks. >> yes, russia did meddle in our elections. >> there clearly is a consensus

that russia has meddled in our election process. >> the evidence is now really incontrovertible. >> russia attempted to interfere with the last election and continues to engage in malign influence operations to this day. >> potus' resistance is so stubborn to reality, it actually led to the elimination of the cyber security coordinator at the white house. and saw much of the cyber defense team furloughed during trump's shutdown. just yesterday this president sat with the head of twitter. you think they would talk about interference and what to do go forward, right? national security threat. nope. the conversation focused on the president's number of followers. all this as the latest worldwide threat assessment warns in 2020, "russia's social media efforts will continue to focus on aggravating social and racial tensions, undermining trust in authorities and criticizing perceived anti-russia politicians." this goes to the heart of the

commander in chief's responsibility and the use of the power we gave him. donald j. trump stood on the steps of congress, put his hand on two bibles and swore an oath. >> and will, to the best of my ability -- >> preserve, protect and defend. >> preserve, protect and defend. >> the constitution of the united states. >> the constitution of the united states. >> now a question worthy of congressional concern, is this president putting personal ambition ahead of that promise? in other words, an abuse of his power. not only by trying to hinder efforts during the probe, but by refusing to do what he can to protect against more interference. congress could make this a very big deal. now, you know who has suggestions on what congress should do here, how they should move forward? hillary clinton. right message? right messenger? starting point for a great debate next. when did you see the sign?

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hillary clinton is offering advice to her fellow democrats at a time when they are all across the spectrum on whether to impeach president trump. in a new opinion piece for "the washington post," she writes in part, "congress should hold substantive hearings that build on the mueller report and fill in its gaps. not jump straight to an up or down vote on impeachment.

in 1998, the republican-led house rushed to judgement. that was a mistake then and would be a mistake now. watergate offers a better precedent. '98 was of course when congress impeached president bill clinton. the current president, however, has a different idea. let's fight any process at all. >> we're fighting all the subpoenas. look, these aren't, like, impartial people. the only way they can luck out is by constantly going after me on nonsense. >> all right. let's get some perspective from two very smart show favorites. van jones, ken cuccinelli. van jones, hillary clinton, right message, right messenger? >> hey, listen, like a lot of people when i heard hillary clinton was writing something i'm like, do we really want to hear from her right now? then i read the piece. i'm like, i'm actually glad we're hearing from her right now. you know, listen, she's taken her punches. she actually is somebody -- she

was there for watergate. she was there for the bill clinton thing. she was there for 9/11 and she's got a road map for democrats. i think we need the leadership. and i actually -- i was prepared to say, hey, listen, take a seat. i'm actually glad she's taking a stand. >> what do you think, ken? right path? >> yeah, you know, i guess it's more a question for democrats. there are a lot of people who won't listen because it's hillary, but i will say, when she started out her piece by questioning herself, whether she was the right messenger, i don't think so. i think she becomes the story and her suggestions to the democrats get lost in the wash because any time you have someone like her step in here it looks like sore loserism. >> all right. let's take -- >> i'm sorry. that's just the way it is. >> you don't have to be sorry. that's a fair point. the watergate model. don't have a clear up or down vote right now. mr. mueller clearly left his work unfinished. take it up, look through it and see if there is a case do an abuse of power and an impeachment.

>> look, first of all, i think i've heard a lot of people say that. i haven't heard anybody defend it the way she did. she said, listen, in the watergate hearings, not only were they able to do the investigations, build a case to educate the public, actually learn some stuff, they also passed substantive legislation. the war powers act and other stuff. so the idea that you can't get yourself on a pathway to possible impeachment at the same time you fulfill your campaign promises, she blows that out of the water. i think that's a very important -- it's been a false debate, not just impeachment/no impeachment or impeachment or get something done. so she points out you can get something done, and i think that's very helpful. i think the democrats right now need some leadership, need some clarity, need some gravitas, certainly for other people on the other side of the aisle, they may roll their eyes at hillary clinton. i think she proved today why she got the nomination, why she's been a public figure for so long. she had a substantive case to make.

i hope people listen. >> you can't have hearings if no one shows up, ken. what did you think of this strategy of using executive privilege to fight on the subpoenas? if we're going to look back to '98, there is a lesson in that, too. clinton tried that. he tried to executive privilege his way out of all of those subpoenas during the impeachment. didn't work. probably wont work this time with don mcgahn. he effectively waived any privilege he had when he went and talked to mueller. what do you think of the president's strategy? >> well, i think that with the -- it's two parts. one, because they claimed no executive privilege with respect to the mueller report as a political matter, they're in a pretty good place. i mean, we all know -- you've played several clips with the president with his witch hunt language about the mueller investigation and so forth. everybody knows how he felt about it while it was going on, and yet they didn't get in the way. there were no denied requests. >> except to sit down and interview the president. except the white house. except the president. >> right. of course we now have his written -- >> the most important one.

>> -- we have his written responses, which is -- >> found inadequate by the special counsel. >> look, chris, i'll tell you what, you let me know when you want me to talk. >> i'm adding little inflection points as you go along, but go ahead. >> oh, that's very helpful of you. look, you know, the president of course was never going to be going over to congress to testify either, and surely you cannot suggest that it was a bad idea on the president's part to not sit down absent compulsion with the special counsel. that would have been foolish. and as i read the mueller report, they said they obviously wanted to talk to him, but as the rest -- as the rest of their investigation panned out, they got the information they needed and it wasn't -- didn't turn out to be necessary. as it relates to congress going forward, i think the president is in a pretty good position because they didn't claim

executive privilege in the mueller investigation to now say to congress, look, we -- we -- you had everybody available to you. well, mueller had everybody available to him. you have a 450-page report here with appendices, et cetera, et cetera, and there will be more later as various matters like the roger stone matter wrap up. more information will be more public later. that they're in a good position to defend and say, look, this is partisan now. >> all right. >> that is not as partisan -- i don't think the president will ever concede it wasn't partisan. >> all right. >> but certainly comparatively he will. i think he's in a pretty good position to defend with that. >> van, what do you think about him thinking it's a good position? >> look, i see it very differently. no surprise to ken. the way i look at this is, you know, congress has its independent role. the department of justice and the special prosecutor have their duties, their responsibilities and they fulfilled them as best we can tell, but congress has an independent role and it has not

yet had a chance to weigh in fully because it was giving its due deference to the special prosecutor. that's over now. there are still unanswered questions. by the way, you look at the polling data, there are unanswered questions by the majority of the american people. people still don't understand what happened, what went on, why does the president behave the way that he does toward russia? are we going to be protected? are we safe? we are under an attack from a foreign power as we sit here talking. and they're attacking us through our phones, which are now, you know, weapons of mass distraction in everybody's back pocket and nothing is being done and nobody understands why. >> people say they don't understand why, but they also say that they don't see impeachment as high on their list or this probe or its findings as high on their motivations to vote. so how do you balance -- >> that's why hillary clinton's intervention today i thought was so useful because she says it's not an either/or choice on impeachment and it's not an either/or choice on impeachment or get something done.

i tell you, people may want to knock her because she's hillary clinton. i'm going to tell you what. she proved today why he's been on the world stage for decades. she saw say way through and put it forward. read the piece before you dismiss it. >> all right. quick pivot point, ken. you want to have a point. go ahead. then i want to ask you something. >> so quick disagreement with both of you all. one of the quieter things that got done before the last election, it just didn't get much coverage, on a bipartisan basis was the elevation of the civilian protection against cyber attacks and so forth within the department of homeland security to agency level. >> it's on the equivalent with the coast guard and the border pa role. >> true. >> on a bipartisan basis. the president signed off on that bill to elevate the level of importance of that entire effort, and that agency -- >> all true. >> that agency is what does the work of defending in elections, and what didn't happen in 2016, communicating with states who

were actually responsible for executing the elections. so, you know, the implications earlier in the show and i disagree with van's comment that nothing is being done here by this administration or this president is patently wrong. >> well, half of that is -- >> he signed legislation to elevate the ability to fight back. >> more can be done. >> he's the president. he signed the bill. >> i know he did. there is a lot more that could be done. they shouldn't have to be going around him. >> okay. but you've been saying that he isn't doing things. that he's stop this work from being done. >> that's the report from "the times." go ahead, van. then i've got something to say. go ahead. >> he signed a piece of paper. i'm glad that he did. the reality is paper doesn't execute itself. even bureaucrats need leadership, direction and priority, and that comes from the commander in chief. right now he's been missing in action on the particular fight of -- >> he won't even admit it happened, ken. that's his problem. let me ask you something else because we could all chalk this up to a need of a concept called redemption, which we all believe

in. van jones is taking it up and it's worth a little bit of our time to show a little bit of it and talk about it. can i play sound or should we talk to van? so, van -- >> yeah. >> there is so much emotion conveyed in the clips i've seen about this. and the redemption project" means what to you? what should it mean to us? >> listen, i think we have a culture where there is no grace, there is no redemption, there is no empathy. we don't listen to each other. it's trendy to be part of the call out culture, cancel culture, i'm going to block you culture. i wanted to do something at cnn with the support of cnn to go back 180 degrees in the other direction and lean in for the need for empathy and listening. we talk in this eight-part series to people who have done really bad stuff in the past, want to make amends and sit down face to face with the people they hurt or surviving family members and film the conversation for the first time as they try to find their way to healing. it doesn't always work out warm and fuzzy. some of these things don't go

the way we hoped, but some of them wind up in beautiful places. it's honest. it's not reality tv. no stunts. no tricks. every word is coming from people trying to find a way out of hell by having a conversation they never thought they would have. >> sunday, 9:00 is the first one. van jones, good for you for seeking virtue. ken cuccinelli, always good to have you on the show. >> good to be with you both. all right. so he has been biden his time, but tomorrow is supposed to be the day, folks. the front-runner in the 2020 democratic race is finally entering the race, joe biden. for all the questions that are going to come, the most important one is probably, is joe biden the democrats' best chance to beat this president? right back with a dynamite duo. jay carney and the axe. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells

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now just hours away from officially joining the 2020 race. crowded field. a lot of democratic contenders. they've already participated in multiple town halls, but none has consistently polled higher than biden. what are his chances? what does he mean? what are the limitations? what are the challenges? jay carney was the vice president's communications director before becoming president obama's press secretary. he's here along with fellow obama white house alum, the axe, david axelrod. it's good to have you both. so he's getting in tomorrow. is this the right time, jay? why did he wait so long? >> i think it's a good time. i think the conventional wisdom that he should get in earlier, that he had to get in early turned out to be useless advice because he's managed to stay out of the race while maintaining his, you know, perch atop the polls. he's viewed with great affection by a vast majority of democrats.

and he's been able to, you know, watch the field assemble and make evaluations of the candidates as they've tried to get their own names recognized. so i think as long as he's able to hit the ground running and demonstrate that he has the support through fund-raising and the events he does, i think the late start probably works to his advantage. >> so, axe, he's got the name. what does he have to show in terms of his game? >> well, first of all, i agree with jay. i think he benefits from a shorter race and he waited about as long as he thought he could, and the reason he can't wait any longer is money. he was on the phone tonight apparently with donors. it was reported that he told them that the first primary's not iowa and new hampshire, it's money. and he's absolutely right. bernie sanders raised $10 million in his first day. beto o'rourke, 6 million online. he is not a social media candidate. he is from a different era, and he doesn't have that social

media fund-raising base, so he's going to have to raise money the old fashioned way and he's going to have to raise it quickly to show that he has broad support and the resources, too. that's the first primary. that's what he's going to have to do in the next few days. >> you know, i hate that the money matters so much, but you'd be pollyanish and foolish if you said that wasn't the case. we all want money out of the base. -- business. everyone knows everyone uses it as one of the main metrics at this point. when you put money aside, is joe the old democrats, the old obama democrats, the new biden democrats, what are his challenges in house? >> well, he's joe biden, and that comes with a lot of, you know, positive i think momentum for him. he's recognized and appreciated by democrats. he's not a divisive figure within the party. he's a serious person with high integrity. he also has enormous empathy. i think van was talking about earlier in your show about the

empathy deficit we're seeing in our country, and joe biden has empathy that is borne out of his own personal experience. there are very few people i know who have suffered in life as much as he has, and yet he wakes up every morning thinking about other people, thinking about how to make their lives better and, you know, with great concern for the, you know, the fate of people who have less than he does. and that's what you want in a leader. and i think those advantages outweigh issues around generation. after all, he's not even the oldest democrat in the race. so i think that he'll be fine on those issues. >> well, he's not going to be in a hug it out race, though, if he gets the nomination. >> no. >> president trump, axe -- >> he's plenty tough, too. >> look, i'm not doubting his bona fides as a tough guy, but it's how will you campaign and deal with somebody who is a very unorthodox fighter? you know, what do you think, axe? >> i think before he gets to -- his issue is before he gets to run against president trump, he

has to become the nominee of the party. >> true. >> and some of the very qualities that make him appealing as a candidate against trump can work against him in the primary. he has a great appeal to older working class white voters, particularly in those midwestern industrial states that trump must have in order to win the presidency, and in that respect and for the reasons that jay suggested, he is potentially the strongest general election candidate. but there is -- jay was polite about this, but 45 years of experience has its value. a track record with people has its value. but 45 years also is a problem in the sense that he's got 45 years of record, 45 years of comments, some of which we've seen already, and he is not necessarily the candidate in best step with the contemporary democratic party, which is younger and more diverse. he's going to have to fight for

this nomination. it is not going to come to him simply because people think he might be the strongest candidate against donald trump. >> you know, jay, people are starting to nip at mayor pete buttigieg because it's time to see if he can put some meat on the bones of his obvious intelect. and, you know, what are his policy ideas? with biden, they kind of see it in the obverse, at least the reverse. people know he can do the job. he's been at the highest levels of it. he can talk the talk. on a personal level, what can joe biden introduce to people that they wouldn't know about him already? >> i think that is a challenge. the upside, as i mentioned before, is what they know about him, they generally like about him. but we are in a party especially that loves, you know, the new thing. >> the new. >> and the idea of a fresh face. and that will be a challenge. i think if he -- if he -- if he resists the urge to be a policy wonk, which in many ways he is. he's very focused on and deeply

in policy substance and foreign affairs and aspects of economic policy. and he engages instead with, you know, individuals on the campaign trail and shows his human side when he's doing town halls and things. i think -- i think he'll make up some of that gap and just show i think in contrast to other candidates and just in terms of revealing of himself, you know, what kind of president he would be. i think he has an opportunity here to reintroduce himself not as a second tier presidential candidate, which he basically was in the other races he ran, and not as a vice president, but as joe biden the potential president. >> axe, any insight into what may be his gimmick or device in the video tomorrow that announces? >> you know, i think he's going to hit many of the qualities that jay speaks of and he's going to talk about fundamental american values and virtues -- >> how. sleeves rolled up? is he sitting down? is he changing his oil on his muscle car? what's he doing? >> i don't think changing his oil at this point would

necessarily be the most authentic for a former vice president to do, but i think he'll do what he's done before and draw on his own story and draw on the stories of others. but let me say this. joe biden has to run as who he is. with all of the strengths that come with it and all of the weaknesses. he is utterly authentic. that's one of the things that people appreciate about him. but he also is because of that sometimes gaffe prone. sometimes he has made political stumbles. remember, he hasn't gotten out of iowa in his previous presidential ventures. he's never really flown very far on his own, so this is a challenge for him and to have the kind of discipline that he -- that he hasn't had in past campaigns and the organizational depth that he hasn't had in past campaigns. it's going to be very necessary here for him to pull something off, let's face it, at the age of 76, when people don't generally change. so this is not going to be a walk in the park for joe biden.

he has enormous strengths, but he's going to be challenged. he's not going to get a pass. it's not going to be an easy road to the nomination. >> it will be -- >> i agree. >> -- the fight of his life. >> i agree with all of that. i mean, i think even as a punitive front-runner, you know, no candidate stands within the democratic field more than a 20% chance of winning. the vice president will fight for it and accept he might not win, but he's going to give everything he can. >> that's going to be in the back of his head, his dear departed son, beau biden, you've got to get in and fight, pop. get in and fight. that's what he'll do tomorrow. jay, axe, thank you very much. let's see how it goes. appreciate it. the president thinks he has a get out of impeachment card. is he exposing a weakness the the process or exposing his own ignorance? the answer and the man, d lemon, next. if your moderate to severe ulcerative colitis

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the highest elected official in the land, the man who has proclaimed he is already one of the best presidents ever, held forth today on his righteous way forward if congress tries to impeach. if the partisan dems ever tried to impeach, i would first head to the u.s. supreme court. strong. but it is just noise, like many of his threats. as reagan appointed chief justice william rehnquist wrote in a majority opinion in 1993, holding that impeachment cannot be reviewed by the courts. he wrote "that kicking any such question to scotus would create months or perhaps years of chaos during judicial review of senate impeachment proceedings." now, maybe that's what the president wants.

and if he wants to be a strict constitutionalist, we can go to article i, section iii, which states very plainly the senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. there is of judicial review. d lemon, this president and his peeps seem to struggle with the meaning of the word "shall." they seem to think it means should, like when it's shall give over the taxes and congress shall impeach, they hear something conditional. >> yeah. well, they struggle with a lot of -- the meaning of a lot of words like truth and reality and facts and all of that, but, yes, i don't think so -- i am surprised that the president of the united states -- and maybe i shouldn't be. would say something that is so ignorant and exposing that he doesn't understand how the levers of this government works. i'm shocked by it. i'm going to go to the supreme court.

so to defy the constitution? to say that congress doesn't have oversight? well, they do. it's all there in the constitution. >> it's all a reflection that he doesn't have anybody around him who either feels the ability or is trusted enough to tell him. >> or who is not afraid. >> to sound dopey. >> who is not afraid to tell him the truth. that's what you're supposed to -- when you have advisers, you pick the, you know, all the best people, you're supposed to have people around you who are not afraid to tell you when you're wrong and say, hey, listen, maybe you shouldn't say that or maybe you shouldn't act that way, but it's just shocking to me because, you know, that he's not comply. he's telling people not to comply with subpoenas. i just want people to go back and do a fact check on the subpoenas that happened during benghazi, all of the subpoenas that were sent to democrats. i just wonder if democrats had said, i'm not going to comply, if hillary clinton had said, i'm not going to comply. i wonder how republicans would have reacted back then. i don't think it would have been the same way that they are doing

now, which is utter and complete silence. >> agreed. change the names. same game. >> yeah. >> all right, bud -- >> i got to tell you -- >> please. >> because i want people to watch. there is -- well, first of all, we've got mark mckinnon on. you know he knows everything about politics, right? >> strong. >> we also have the former governor of one of the most important states when it comes to a presidential election. this governor says -- former governor says that joe biden jumping into the race could take a big chunk out of trump's voters. that state is pennsylvania. the honorable ed rendell. >> ed rendell, great guest. i'll watch. later, bud. all right. question, when i say remember what happened to congressman steve king, do you think, oh, yeah, just like jesus? he does. a new low in the politics of victimization, and an argument that i hope you will find to be divine. next.

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let us embark on the process of the three a's, audio, and an argument. our first step, the latest stylings of congressman steve king. >> when i step down to the floor of the house of representatives and look up at those 400 and some accusers, you know, we've just passed through easter and christ's passion, and i have a better insight into what he went through for us partly because of that experience. >> aye yai yai. step two, he knows how jesus felt because of what he went through, being removed from committees for a steady flow of bigoted comments helps him relate to the passion of jesus, the christ who gave his life to save people like king after being crucified.

why is he misusing christianity? why the victim complex? never owning a mistake. always being put upon by the left, the media and other imagined foes. the reason we must question whether king is right that he can better relate to jesus is that he doesn't seem to get the difference between jesus' message and his own. >> for everyone who's a valedictorian, there's another 100 out there that they weigh 130 pounds and they've got calves the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 700 pounds of marijuana across the desert. >> with the current that wouldn't kill somebody but it would be a discouragement to them to fool around with it. >> you cannot rebuild civilization with somebody else's babies, you need to teach your children your values and in doing so you can grow your population and you can strengthen your culture, and strengthen your way of life. >> can you believe that was only

two years ago? look how much i've aged. and this is why. you can't imagine jesus saying any of that. odd that mr. king doesn't get that as a man of professed faith. jesus' message, love, love mercy, blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek, not blessed are those who attack the poor and meek. and when it comes to this use of religion as sword and shield, mr. king's most successful accolite follows -- the president went and visited king and emerged with a much harsher stand on immigration. even when the whole party called out king finally this president refused, still has never said a word about him. he too sees the use of faith as a convenient shield. remember this?

>> i'm always audited by the irs, which i think is very unfair. i don't know maybe because of religion, maybe because of something else, maybe because i'm doing this, although this is just recently. >> what do you mean religion? >> maybe because of the fact that i'm a strong christian and i feel strongly about it and maybe there's a bias. you see what's happened. many religious groups have been complaining about that for a long time. >> being audited for being christian. this president? look, we don't even know if he is being audited. and as for being devout, here are his skills on display. >> two corinthians 3:17, that's the whole ball game, where the spirit of the lord, right, where the spirit of the lord is, there is liberty. and here there is liberty college, but liberty university but it is so true. you know, when you think -- and that's really -- is that the one, is that the one you like? i think that's the one you like because i loved it and it's so representative of what's taken place.

>> now the lord is spirit and where the spirit of the lord is there is freedom. that's the psalm. some translate the last word as liberty, but the only part he really got right even though he was reading it off a piece of paper is the last part. it is so representative of what has taken place. religion is being used to pander and divide, by men who have no business representing themselves as arbiters of the same. the larger problem is this passion for playing the victim. the president has taken this to the highest levels, no matter what it is it's someone else's fault, call me the fbi, the doj, the deep state, the democrats, the media, his lawyer, never him, always the victim. but he is no victim. neither is mr. king, unless you count being a victim of your own

mouth and moral plays, then they both have a solid case but only themselves to blame. no one made mr. king say bigoted things, no one is compelling this president to practice division and deception. the irony here is that the context for the psalm this president mangled, two corinthians three, let's take it 15 to 18, very applicable to both men and to many of us, by the way, certainly to me. it is only when you turn to god that the veil of sin and ignorance is removed, according to the scripture, only then are you enhanced by the spirit and free to reflect the glory of the lord. now, i'm not pushing faith on you, this isn't about belief in god, but belief in an ethical and moral imperative. if we are more concerned about saying and doing things that reflect love and mercy, we will

be in a better position. in other words, don't spread hate and lies and you won't need to hide. let alone hide behind your faith. in this season of rebirth and renewal, maybe our leaders can try to be better. at a minimum, let's hope they stop acting like martyrs. i hope that gets a big amen. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with d. lemon starts right now. can i get an amen? >> you can get an amen. and that is why the fastest growing group out there, people who are unaffiliated with religion because of the hypocrisy and other things and people who have no belief in religion at all. and i think it's in -- well, the studies show it's in big part because of the hypocrisy and people like steve king and the president of the united states and quite frankly many christians in this country who twist the scriptures and doctrine in the bible to fit their political beliefs and to fit what they believe it should be and also to keep