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good evening. president trump doubling down on a falsehood not to mention visiting one of his presidency's all time lows. claiming that there were very fine people among the nazis in charlottesville two summers ago. >> if you look at what i said you will see that that question was answered perfectly and i was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to robert e. lee a great general whether you like it or not, he was one of the great generals. i have spoken to many generals here right at the white house and many people thought of the generals they think he was maybe their favorite general. people were there protesting the taking down of the monument of robert e. lee. everybody knows that. >> so just keep that in your mind that people were there were there to protest the taking down or the attempt to take down the monument of robert e. lee and

everybody knows that. so the president was responding to joe biden that make similar remarks on charlottesville, the centerpiece of his campaign kick off video. >> those words the president of the united states assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it. >> clearly biden's video urked the president. is there any reason why the president just chose to double down on his previous comments which to this day are widely condemned and just not really accurate? >> well, anderson, as you know the president is never one to back off of something that he has already staked a position on but if you'll remember those two summers ago the president made those comments about very fine people and then the white house orchestrated another speech in which he layed out more electrical kwen eloquently a response to the charlottesville events of that

summer and what happened after that was that privately the president really seemed to regret having made that second speech. he regretted the idea that he had to back down from something he said that he didn't think that was wrong. he's expressing what he believed from this entire time which was that he was being taken out of context and in a similar fashion to how he responded to people that abandoned him after the "access hollywood" video, this moment in his presidency really became a test for him. and his loyalty to people that stook by him told you everything about whether he thought he got that wrong. >> was there anybody that pushes back against the president or could convince him not to say this? >> a lot of people in the white house have taken a very different approach to dealing

with president trump. many of them left here simply acknowledged that the president is going to do what he wants. he's going to say what he wants and he's going to tweet what he wants. they don't try to get ahead of it or advise him against it. he's not likely to take their advice anyway. you see a lot of aids that have re-signed to reacting to what he is doing on a day-to-day basis. this is yet another example of something he has thrown on to their plates they would rather not be talking about. 3.2% gdp. the white house would love to talk about that but instead the president decided to take joe biden on over the issue of charlottesville and they would rather do anything but that. >> the president saying he answered questions about this

perfectly, it does seem like an alternative universe. >> yeah, you know, perfectly badly. i don't think the president understands how painful this is and how dangerous this is. this is, you know, the worst people in the country, the hate mongers, the violent fringe love when he does this. it's not an academic discussion in a classroom some place, this has political consequences in real time in our country. he's giving aid and comfort to a terrorist part of america. he's got to cut it out. neo nazis, tiki torches. >> it's outrage. >> with him saying this is just about the monument to robert e. lee that's not true. friday night marching to the lee

memorial were young men with tiki torches chanting jews will not replace us, you will not replace us blood and soil do you agree? >> i agree with that and so does the president. >> he said the next day there were good people on both sides. >> there's either a disconnect or distortion of the president's words. he has absolutely condemned white nationalists and has condemned those anti-semetic remarks and individuals and we all do. >> he initially denied knowing anything about white supremacy and david duke. he had criticized him. >> but let me just ask -- i think this has really been quite unfair to the president.

i think he has condemned that. i think when the initial reporting on this was actually quite fair. there was a distinction when you see the entire statement. his words have been taken completely out of context. this is a president whose son-in-law is an orthodox jew, whose daughter converted to judaism. one of his key advisers-vil is jewish and the strongest ally of israel. to say he is anti-semitic. >> gary cohen threatened to re-sign because of the president's response to this. >> well he didn't and there's plenty of jewish americans serving in the cabinet that see

it completely differently. but the president condemns anti-semitism and neo nazis. >> he has a lot of them supporting him and seems to send out messages that keep them happy. >> how many of these people exist in our country? it is a small group. >> no, no. >> this is a small number of individuals. >> no. no. don't do that. >> quit saying that. quit saying that. it's a small number of people. they're a small number of people whose job it was to go around killing white men. i don't think you'd be saying that's a small number of people that decided they want to go and kill white men. why are you so concerned about it. you'd say there's a group of people trying to kill white men, do something.

don't minimize this. >> i'm not minimize this. it's the definition of minimizing it. if we're going to have a conversation you make a fair point that there are people that on the merits have a different view of this statute and they should not all be demonized as racists but you go way too far when you take it upon yourself to minimize concerns of people about a terrorist movement in the country coming from me and not for you. my kids and not for yours. don't minimize this. >> when the president says something like this, i'm wondering how it resinate there is. >> well, it simply brings up a lot of very bad memories. look this was not about the statues i was there. i watched that small group of neo nazis. hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of almost entirely young men.

some of whom were shouting slogans and doing all kinds of things that were obnoxious. look at the advertising that they put out for that weekend it had nothing to do with the statue of robert e. lee or stone wall jackson. it looked very nazi-like because that's what it was the one that will always stick with me is into the ovens. that's how wonderful and how fine these people were. >> heather heyer was murdered. she was killed by a terrorist in the united states of america and the president of the united states did not respond perfectly. that was not the time to try to have a conversation about american history and to defend the good intentions of somebody else. that was a time to be as forceful as he could and on paper, what was written on paper and has been forgotten what he read on paper actually was fo e

forceful but then he erased it. he shouldn't say he had done it perfectly. >> things that were written out for him he couldn't even just read those without adding in his own good people on both sides. he cannot stop himself. he's appealing to these people as if that's a constituent sy. that's not a constituentcy. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. well, plenty more to talk about tonight including a story that you likely haven't heard before about when president obama talked joe biden out of running for president in 2016. later new reporting on a stunning detail from the mueller report, a portrait of a

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hearings. >> i'm sorry she was treated the way she was treated. i wish we could have figured out a better way to get it done. >> i think she wants to say i'm sorry for the way i treated you. that would be closer. >> if you go back and look at what i said and didn't say i don't think i treated her badly. >> so far it's not effecting his fund-raising it seems. he pulled in $6.3 million in his first 24 hours in the 2020 campaign. joining us now is someone that's just written about biden and the 2016 campaign. i just want to give you, everybody the title in the when obama talked biden out of running for president. it's a fascinating piece here. can you explain why he didn't want vice president biden to run in 2016? >> first of all, remember what had happened memorial weekend of 2015 was that biden son's bo died and biden was overwhelmed

with grief and in bad shape emotionally over that as one would expect and obama thought he wasn't in the right emotional space to run as biden eventually said was the case and obama also thought hillary clinton should the nominee and didn't think biden could beat her in the primaries. >> how much did biden regret not running four years ago? >> that goes back and forth. sometimes he talks about it and sometimes it lands on maybe i would have won. those things are always tough to do, bob casey, a senator from pennsylvania that supported clinton but was one of the first out of the gate endorsing biden yesterday said to me it's one of the great imponderables, would he have won. >> he essentially had his long time adviser break the news to biden that he shouldn't run in 2016. he asked him, quote, do you really want it to end in a hotel room in des moines coming in

third to bernie sanders? what changed from then until now? that's a possibility this time too. >> one of the things that was going on there is that obama thought that biden was going to get to the decision not to run earlier than he did so obama started exerting pressure on him and sent him to meet with him and layed it out for biden that way. a lot has changed since 2015. first of all, donald trump is the president and biden does feel that this is an exten smom the country and he has to try to get into it. that's how he put it in the video he put out launching his campaign. he couldn't stand by and watch this happen. the other thing that's going on though is that in 2015, the summer went by as he was grieving and he didn't put a campaign together. he was looking at trying to take on the clinton juggernaut at that point on very little notice and very little preparation. now he is getting in obviously later than a number of the other candidates but still pretty early in this race. >> you're also reporting that the whole idea joe biden

wouldn't have future presidential aspirations was part of the reason that then candidate obama chose him in the first place. >> if you look back at the clinton white house for example that became an issue into the second term as it tends to be when a president has a vice president. there is a concern of competing ambitions and there were several reasons. he's run for president twice. he is done. we won't have to think about that as an issue. >> do you believe biden -- i mean, he is claiming that he asked president obama not to endorse him, i mean, it's not as if -- we don't know the circumstances of this. it's not as if president obama would have endorsed anybody at

this stage. >> journalistic terms that sometimes go around and obama decided that he was not going to endorse early given the size of the field. if you parse it carefully that's obama saying it was my decision and biden saying it was my decision. he asked me not to endorse him. he said he didn't want to win the nomination because obama said that's my guy but it doesn't seem like obama was quite ready to say that. >> thank you so much. more next on the question did president trump obstruct justice? robert mueller left it up to congress but gave members plenty of evidence to look over including an account of a person not even in the administration but being asked to curtail mueller's probe. they join us to talk about it when we come back. erfection. feast on new cedar-plank lobster & shrimp. or new colossal shrimp & salmon with a citrusy drizzle. tender, smoky, and together on one plank...

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click, call, or visit a store today. the notion of president's aids not carrying out his instructio instructions. the mueller report said he was asked to recap the probe and he knew it wasn't a good idea. this reporting about people not following the president's orders is actually sworn system given to robert mueller. is it consistent with what you saw or heard in your time in the white house? >> i write a little bit about this in team of vipers. there's two types of presidential orders. one is the type that you follow

immediately. the second is the type that you kind of see if he brings it back up again later on and most of the times these things were like not the more serious directives. there's a keen in the book where the president says he wants to do the fake news awards. it's the first time he brought that up as a concept. to laughed about it and didn't hear anything about it and brought it back up again and he was more serious about it. and i think it's more often what happens is not that someone disobeys an order but people use whatever power they have to slow walk his directives. i think that's what i saw more often than just direct insubordination. >> slow walk in the fact that he'll just forget about it. >> i don't know if it's just forget about it.

they talk a lot about it behind the scenes. that was something that the generals did not feel comfortable with and there's been pretty dramatic reporting about various blow ups and conversations that happened about that but the generals were using their authority to slow walk that decision in hopes of changing the president's mind or providing him with additional information that would maybe get him to change course and sometimes as in general mattis's case with syria, it even actually came to a head and he said i can't implemented this. you need someone that will follow your directive and i have to depart. i respect that about general mat gatt mattis but i never respected when someone would undermine a directive and just not follow through on it and do it in perpetuity. i don't think that's a good precedent to set. >> he told don mcgahn that the

president wanted him to shutdown this investigation and don mcgahn point blank said no. and that's something that is again just defying a direct order but don mcgahn knew legally he would get himself and the president would get himself in a world of hurt over that. >> and i think ultimately this is the kind of thing that the president still has the ultimate authority. if he gave someone an order. >> it really came to a head when he said do this and someone says no. >> that's what is so interesting about the mueller report is that you have corey lewandowski that you would think would do just about anything for the

president. the president telling him to get a message to sessions to intervene and change the course of the investigation. he said oh, sure i'll do that. doesn't do it. the president asked him about it about a month or so later, lewandowski tries to pawn it off on deerborn. he says i'll deal with it and he doesn't do anything about it because they all know none of them want to be tainted with this. i know that you're in litigation with the white house and can't get into specifics but broadly it is people that weren't government employees. relies on a talk show host for communications advice. >> i do think that there is clearly a constellation of outside loyalists. there's others that fit that description. i never witnessed him outsource a typical government related function to someone outside of

the government but i don't think there's any question that he relies on the advice of people for a long time. >> thank you for being back, appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> one of president trump's chief antagonists could face the rest of his life in prison if found guilty. we're going to hear from him, next. ♪ here i go again on my own ♪ goin' down the only road i've ever known ♪ ♪ like a drifter i was-- ♪ born to walk alone! keep goin' man! you got it! if you ride, you get it. ♪ here i go again geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more.

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the attorney that represented stormy daniels is now facing the legal fight of his life. he has a court date in california on monday where he has been indicted on more than three dozen counts including fire fraud, bank fraud and extortion. he is also charged in new york for trying to shake down sportswear giant nike. he faces prison for the rest of his life if he's found guilty. >> my lawyers didn't even want me to sit down for this interview. >> but michael avenati is doing it anyway while free on a $300,000 bond. >> do you think you'll go to jail before the president? >> accused of trying to extort nike for more than $20 million. >> nike said we have michael

avenati on tape saying he will take this money and not disclose anything and ride off into the sunset. did you say that? >> did i say we'd ride off into the sunset? yes. was it in the context they allege? absolutely not. they figured out they couldn't buy me. they couldn't own me. they couldn't control me. >> avenati is accusing nike of rigging the college basketball recruitment process by bribing them to attend nike sponsored schools. they said it would not respond to an individual facing charges of extortion. 1.5 million for his clients between 15 and 25 million to hire him and his co-counsel to lead an internal investigation or a payment of 22.5 million and no investigation. instead of making a deal with

them, nike called the fbi saying it was being extorted. the fbi began recording the meetings. the case came to a head in just under a week after this tweet avenati announcing a press conference. >> what happened after that? >> i was arrested shortly there after. >> were you saying to them pay me hush money, i'll be quite. i'll go away, i'll walk out the door? >> no, never. never happened. >> the accusation concerning hush money is especially ironic considering the case that brought his name into the american consciousness. >> michael avenatti. >> the high flying litigator became a household name when he represented porn star stormy danders th daniels that sued the president of the united states. >> we're committed to making sure that everyone finds out the truth. >> she wanted out of a hush agreement to keep quite about a sexual affair she had with donald trump.

trump denied the affair. >> did you think you were going to bring down the president? >> i immediately saw that as an opportunity to do collateral damage to the president of the united states. in that regard i accomplished the goal although not entirely. >> avenatti's thea tricks and legal zingers became a fixture on cable news. after an investigation he referred to the southern district of new york, cohen admitted to a total of nine criminal counts including orchestrating that hush payment to daniels on trump's behalf to effect the 2016 presidential election. >> i don't think his sentence is strong enough by any stretch of the imagination and i don't believe that other people around him that participated in that including donald trump the president of the united states should somehow get a pass. i believe donald trump should be

indicted. >> but now avenatti is facing serious charges and potential prison time. more than 300 years if convicted. the very same day he was arrested in new york, the u.s. attorney in california charged him in another separate case. eventually bringing 36 counts including wire fraud, bank fraud, and bankruptcy fraud. but perhaps the most stunning charge, stealing from his own clients. one of them a paman named jeffr johnson. >> your paraplegic client said he did not receive what he was supposed to receive of a $4 million settlement. did you defraud him? >> i'm not able to get into the details of that particular situation because i have been advised about not to do it. if it was up to me i'd tell my side of the story. >> but he did do that using twitter as his bull horn. he posted this document showing

a glowing recommendation that he said his client signed a month before the indictment. >> his attorney said what you posted was actually you tricked him into signing something saying you were a great attorney and he was happy with your services. that you stole money from him. how do you respond to that? >> that assertion by the attorney is absurd. >> prosecutors are also saying the same thing. >> prosecutors are saying all kinds of things but that doesn't mean that they're all true or provable. >> that wasn't the only client prosecutors say he defrauded. there are four others including an nba player that wanted to quitely pay monies to his ex-girlfriend for her long time support but nearly all the $2.7 million settlement was alleged used to pay for this, avenatti's personal jet. >> did you own a private jet? >> i had an interest in a private jet, yes, but there's nothing unusual about some of these factors relating to my life style. have i had a privileged lifestyle? of course. have i had a lifestyle that some

people would describe as lavish at times, yes? i'm a self-made guy. i put myself through law school and nothing was ever handed to me and i busted my ass for a lot of what i received. >> prosecutors have tied your lifestyle. they accused you of buying that jet with $2.5 million that belonged to a client from a settlement. are they right? >> we'll have facts that are evidence and present that to a jury and a jury is going to decide up or down whether i'm convicted or not and it's their obligation. >> and you usually -- if there's nothing but truth out there and you did none of this, why can't you just tell me? >> because here's the problem, because my lawyers didn't even want me to sit down for this interview. we have had debates about this and the problem is that i have been told to say nothing. >> avenatti rarely shies away from a controversy. >> it's time to come clean. >> stepping into the spotlight

with the biggest headlines of 2018. >> he groped me and tried to take off my clothes. >> as u.s. supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh faced sexual assault allegations. >> but i have never done this to her or to anyone. >> avenatti emerged with a second accuser. >> she is 100% credible. >> republicans and some democrats viewed his insertion into the case as an outrageous stunt. >> do you interject yourself purposefully for your own fame and your own fortune in these cases that made headlines? >> do i interject myself? no, i receive a call from a client. >> she never testified. she was accused of lying but her allegations were never investigated. >> when the border battle over child separation emerged, so did avenatti with clients whose children were alone and afraid. in one case he went all the way to guatemala to deliver a mother's most precious gift.

and unexpectedly received one of his own. >> as a father myself, it was one of the best days of my clear. i remember it like it was yesterday. he gave me a -- i have it in my briefcase and carry it with me. it was in my briefcase when i was arrested. it's a fabric bracelet that he made me to thank me for bringing him back to his mom. >> would you consider running for the democratic ticket in 2020? >> avenatti began to consider running for president. >> stand up. join the fight club. >> he tested the waters in west hollywood and the crowd swooned. >> president avenatti. >> i sleep better because you're in the world. i'm not kidding. >> what's your name? >> we hit harder from iowa to new hampshire to texas he began fund-raising for democrats but problems with his own financials followed him. a judge ordered one of his firms to pay his former partner $10

million and another $800,000 he owed to the irs. he has yet to pay all his debts. >> are you broke? >> no, i don't think i'm broke. >> well, you know if you're broke or not. are you broke? >> no. >> 100% sure. >> no, i'm not broke. >> okay. are you having money problems. >> no, i don't believe i'm having money problems. there's been challenges along the way, there's no question about that. >> avenatti still had his eye on the presidency. >> michael avenatti is under arrest for allegations of felony domestic violence. >> did you hit, slap, drag the young lady in your departmenapa? >> absolutely not. that's why no charges have been brought. >> after that he bounce bad k in d bounced back into the headlines. >> he said he had given a video tape that showed kelly having sex with an underage girl. >> at first his new evidence in super star r. kelly's case

energized a public clamoring for justice. but it wouldn't be long before kelly's attorney would use avenatti's legal troubles against him. >> he is basically saying r. kelly's case has been tainted because of what happened to michael avenatti and the case is rotten. >> it's a desperate attorney for a desperate man. it's absolutely absurd. >> now avenatti is fighting the biggest case of his life. the case against him. >> you're facing potential of 300 years in prison if convicted. will you fight these charges or will you make a plea deal? >> i anticipate fighting all the charges. >> have you thought about the prospect of proten sotentially to spend time in prison? >> there's no question i have thought about that. >> there are some people that are delighting in what they see

is your facade being exposed. trump junior mocks avenatti, you might just get to share a cell with cohen. avenatti crash and burns. did you crash and burn? >> no, this is a tough business. we operate now in an environment that's more toxic politically that has we ever have experienced in the history of the united states. >> haven't you contributed to that. >> largely due to social media. >> to the toxic nature of topics? >> i don't think so. i don't think i have trafficked in nonsense and personal attacks for the most part. >> he also made clear why he thinks he's fashion -- >> especially over the last 18

months. >> you're eluding to a conspiracy against you. >> i'm not eluding to a conspiracy. >> you are. >> what i'm saying is the facts are the facts. >> the fact is they have been investigating him for two years long before avenatti ever met stormy daniels. daniels and avenatti parted ways earlier this year. when he was arrested for financial crimes daniels tweeted she was not shocked adding that he treated her extremely dishonestly. he denies being dishonest. >> was it worth it to take on this case? >> if you would have asked me that nine months ago i would have said absolutely. as i sit here today, sarah, i just don't know because the price paid by me and my family and those around me has been enormous. >> you sound like a man humbled by this. is that fair? >> there's no question i have been humbled. regardless of what happens i

have had an enormous life. i have had a lot of opportunities that a lot of people can only dream of and i have done a lot of things that a lot of people would never have an opportunity to do. >> are you afraid you're going to lose it all? >> of course i'm afraid. again if i wasn't afraid of that, there would be something fundamentally wrong with me as a man, and as a human being. but i can't have that consume me. otherwise i might as well just crawl into a fetal position and wither away and i'm not going out like that and i'm not planning on going out period. >> up next, this weekend's debut of season 4 of united shades of america. what he discovered when looking into mega churches.

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of dollars. the episode that's coming up this sunday is about megachurches, such a fascinating topic. have you spent time in megachurches before this? >> i grew up with a lot of churches with my mom and dad growing up. but these are all several thousand. >> did you have an opinion about it going in, skepticism? >> i always take a healthy dose of skepticism everywhere i go? >> the face of the megachurch is joel 'ol steen, white heterosexual man, dressed in a suit. there's different kinds of megachurches, we talked to a huge church that's in social justice, and pastor neal at the cathedral of hope, the largest lgbtq plus megachurch in the world.

>> i want to take a look at some of what you found. >> there's pastors to say i stay out of politics. and other people who say everything but. >> kind of blatant. >> what do you think about that thing, you should not be political? >> well, i mean, honestly i think it's kind of fake to say you're not political because you can't even go to the bathroom without it being political. so then why not have some kind of influence? that is, you know, tryiyou know righteous. i'm pushing for justice. >> how are these megachurches, often wealthy and do have some political capital, how are they using that in politics? >> well, there's this idea that like we talked to pastor ed who's not being political but pastor freddie haynes says everything you do is political,

even if pastor ed is not talking about politics, you're in texas, the immigration crisis is going on, but not talking about that, you're saying we can ignore this thing, that's political. the idea churches aren't allowed to go say vote for this candidate but there are megachurches around the country, especially in dallas, building the framework where they say go vote for trump. they call them maga churches. there's this idea to separate church and state. we haven't done that. we should really own up to that and say, okay, if we're going to do this let's at least know where all this money is going. you don't know what's going on with money in churches, they're not like nonprofits where they have to tell you where it's going. the church we talked to with pastor ed, it's worth $11 million. shouldn't we be able to know what you're spending the money you're doing with? >> what would anthony bourdain think about that? such a great shirt. >> i would have loved to do the

episode with him and so he could sit next to me and get sick. >> he would have gone to the barbecue part in dallas. >> what other episodes you're looking at? >> this show -- every show there's a new theme that emerges so we make an episode based op that. everywhere i go, airports, coffee shops, white people come up to me and say what can i do, how can i help, can i retweet you more? and so we have an episode called not all white people, that's about white activism, anti-racist activism in this country, the john brown gun club white liberal gun toting people. the mung americans. >> anthony was also obsessed with the secret war in laos. >> i learned the history and their history of the secret war, fascinating episode. >> w.kamau bell, thank you so

much. >> thank you. >> don't miss the seen 4 premiere, united shades of america, sunday night 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. we'll be right back. to cover the essentials in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. and on the way, you'll get timely investment help to keep you on the right track, without the unnecessary fees you might expect from so many financial firms. because when you have a partner who gives you clarity at every step, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. who gives you clarity at every step, if ywhen you brush or floss, you don't have to choose between healthy gums and strong teeth. complete protection from parodontax has 8 designed benefits for healthy gums and strong teeth. complete protection from parodontax. ten detailed acts of obstruction of justice. robert mueller's report lays out a roadmap for impeachment proceedings against this president

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news continues, let's turn it over to "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight," i'm don lemon. joe biden sure seems to be getting under the president's skin after he launched his campaign with an attack, on trump's claim there were very fine people on both sides. double down again on the view. >> i wrote an article at the time when charlottesville and saying that, you know, this is not who we are. there's an person creed. it's about decency, honor, including everyone, leaving no one behind. but the i