>> when i was a kid, church meant putting on my good clothes and getting yelled@my grandma's church. these days like the great crist man for three weeks, the churches they are changing. >> good morning. >> morning. >> you raid to run through the bible?

despite the fact that you think i'm a godless marxist heathen, i went to church a lot as a kid. i don't go now, but it's easy to find ways to fill up sunday mornings like protesting the nfl. a lot of folks are looking for the message of jesus. >> that's the god we serve. that's the first miracle. >> those folks are joining mega churches filling up arenas and stadiums where beaver became born again and pastors begged

members to tide for their private jets. >> if i wanted to, you cannot stop me. >> joel osteen got so big, he bought the building where the houston rockets played. if you are thinking evaporate i seen this go badly before? remember jim and tammy fay bakker? >> make a pledge of $5-00. >> he was indicted for wire fraud and he changed his ways and can be found selling meal buckets for the rapture. >> we have been doing what god spoke to me in prison would happen. the last days are coming. >> it has been put on steroids and church leaders are rolling in the profits. to be clear, that's profits with an i. churches with the magnitude wield a lot of power. spiritually and financially and

politically. to find out what they are doing with the power, i'm going to mega churches in dallas, texas. dallas is the birth place of the mega church. 200 in texas, dallas is the buckle of the bible belt and the most powerful churches in the country. it's sunday morning outside of dallas and i'm a tenlding fellowship church. >> mega churches have become a pretty new expression in the last couple of decades. they don't want it to look tra digszal. >> i invited my bay area man of the cloth to attend sunday service with me. we met on a high level actist e-mail chain that i have no idea how i got on and his church is down the street from me and we got into trouble together. i like pastor mike's church. the 21st century social justice. >> we had our gun violence

sabbath and want to appreciate all of you who participated. >> i have been to your church in berkeley, california. yours is a beautiful church and a little more homey. >> is it wrong when i see places like this, i get suspicious? >> wrong? i don't think it's wrong. this is a method to try and amplify a message. i'm curious about the message. if the message is whack, all of this is really quite problematic, particularly given the moment of time. i decided to take a peek in there. >> not only are you my spiritual back up, but my black back up. >> power to the people. this be like an arena. >> exactly. >> fellowship church is a southern baptist church. it's time america finally learns about christianity. a mega church is defined by the hartford institute as any patriot statue of liberty

christian church having more than 2,000 people in attendance a week. process stand is with roman catholic and the orthodox church. process stands that attend baptist and lutheran churches, but fellowship is a big one in a state where everything is big. they have nine campuses and attracted 25,000 people a week with a broadcast reach to millions on line and service in grapevine is for all of his members to see. that means thousands of people get up and get out of bed and get dress and go to church to watch tv. i have 1100 youtube followers. jealous? i have to see how this works. i asked them to take me to the holy command center. >> this is the control room. >> is it like a bible verse?

>> i'm going to turn you guys over to pastor derek. >> a preacher's kid, he grew up under the shadow of his father in houston. after playing hoops at florida state and cutting his teeth in smaller churches around texts on, he founded fellowship church and figured out a new way of doing church. >> the message is that god is pro sex. >> it received push back and ed is not in the business of being traditional. he's not only a pastor, but a brand. he has written 15 "new york times" bestsellers and owns casual fishing clothes. his network is $11 million. his relatable messages and stage stunts are pulling in more and more people to walk with ed. >> he calling different camera shots on stage and going through his message. >> amazing.

>> nathan. >> you are literally running through the whole program every week. >> every week. >> where do you rehearse? >> in my battle room mirror. >> that's a level of production. this is like doing the grammys. >> this is amazing. >> it's early and i need my coffee. since we are in church, we will take you to a cold pot of coffee in the church basement. k lattes for the lord. >> it's the only coffee shop in a church coffee that i ever had. partake number one however you can get. >> these are all volunteers back here. >> how many volunteers do you have a week? >> so across the board, it's around 1500. every week. >> wow! >> yep, i realized that everybody i had seen had been working for free.

the baristas and the people in the control room and the greeters in the door. this guy, that guy. her, them, them, that guy, everybody. i get people volunteer to help their church, but this mocha ain't free. the dvds ain't free. what happened with all that money? >> let's do it. >> how are you doing? >> good. nice to meet you. >> i like the jacket. >> thank you. >> thanks for being here, man. >> touch your neighbor. >> thank you for having us. paranormally i do this and i go through the kind of vibe and the flow of everything. i thought you might want to see some of the stuff maybe that we do. i don't know if it's unique or not. >> unique to me because i never have been on in a place like

this. >> i'm not sure if he is pitching a sermon or a marvel movie. >> we have microscopic. >> i appreciate the enthusiasm. >> somebody help me. >> does he go everywhere with that microphone? >> i'm more confused now than when i walked in. >> one second is he is figuring out details on the sermon and next he is live streaming on instagram. >> welcome to instagram live. >> he has a run through. let's go to instagram live. >> and it splits -- >> how close to the first service? >> about 45 minutes away. >> i'm exhausted. >> you got it? >> this is the second one. >> this is typical. every week. we have a saying fc can mean frequent change. >> he's like let's move it. all right. >> my staff quits. >> this show that we are filming

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♪ applebee's bigger, bolder grill combos. now that's eatin good in the neighborhood. remember your first experience here? >> i do. i thought it was a rock concert. >> in a good way. >> is this really church? >> good morning, fellowship church, how are we doing? >> i learned how they mega church. >> remember not liking church because you had to dress up.

>> i don't think god is worried about how i look. >> what are do you like the most? >> the messages. it's easy to understand. >> after it's over. me and pastor mike are ready for the message. >> how are y'all doing some. >> it's mega church and this ain't your usual marathon. >> today i'm talking about the new testament. 27:56. >> in under one hour, they throws their hands up to three catchy rock songs and he tells us about every book in the bible. >> talking about the disciples. these guys were tough. >> and use pastor mike's line. >> touch your neighbor and say you are a disciple and so am i. say dino might. >> you might want to update your black reference or look like a jive turkey. as pastor mike and i have been

seeing as much show business and church business. >> this is part of a performance. >> no doubt his performance and i'm not scared of saying we are entertaining. if you look at the gospels and jesus entertained. i hope you don't come off and hope you don't want it to be. >> i think that people who do not feel invited into the church and one of the things they see with a church like this, why is that where they are spending all that money? >> i never heard that in my whole life. >> the money, do you feel weird about the money? >> you know what, no. i don't, but i understand where you are coming from. when we started fellowship i was

making $27,000 a year and lived in a rental house. we brought more than 10% to fellowship. now i make a lot more and we bring well over 10%. don't talk about how much money you have, what are you bringing and giving? give it to god. >> we do stuff from haiti and guatemala and from our camps and the up and out and the down and out. can we do a better job? heck yes. >> how do you make sure you don't go down that jimmy and tammy fay bakker. this requires a lot of money. how do you prevent that? >> you can put boards and audits and still go crazy. >> how does the money get here. they are start and maintained by money given by the kong

immigration. the standard is 10% of your yearly earnings. they can take it right out of your bank account. they make up the pile of money spent on construction, mission work, av equipment and coffee shop supplies and salaries. the mega church pastors are on independently run boards. they determine reasonable ways for each pastor on the board. what's reasonable? god only knows. they didn't tell us. >> texas is a very political state. >> do you ever bring up the things going on in a political moment in your services? >> i have done things like what would jesus say it to lebron james or donald trump? what would jesus say to -- >> slow down. what would he say to donald trump? >> get behind satan! >> i try bible in one hand and newspaper in the other. our message is go out and vote.

i never endorsed somebody. >> given the polarizing moment where we see white nationalism and racism and tribalism, do you ever worry that the american church has not figure out how to disciple people away from racism? >> yes. >> was jesus a racist? probably not. where is the disconnect? >> when someone is sincerely saved, their eyes are opened and hopefully they live that out. that's the conversation we need more and more. i totally agree with that. >> if we don't love each other, we will tear this earth apart. >> heck to the yes. >> i think these conversations are not just conversation. action. application. without application it is an abomination. i'm preaching more than you are shouting. amen!

>> this is our not pastor ed because you are not jesus. that's not jesus either. that's charles manson. >> oh, man! golly! >> i'm happy we got to talk to ed today. even when mike said jesus looked like charles manson and they love him and do good work. >> show us, god, how to have the hard conversations and what it means to live them out, god. >> touch your neighbor, with consent. touch your neighbor, with consent. >> god bless you, man. >> in the bible of texas, it's advised to wash your prayers down with a bowl of chili. you know how texas works. eat, pray, football. >> touch your neighbor. with consent.

>> just for clarity, am i supposed to eat this? >> eat it. >> so i should be careful? >> while talking with pastor mike, i couldn't help but think about something. >> does it ever get political? >> i haven't seen it. >> how are you not reckoning with a political moment? >> that is quite a -- to be like jesus and to be like so humble, i want to be like him, except -- except when you start talking about who you get to marry or except when -- >> opening up the borders. >> i want to be like jesus except. >> he was an immigrant and hate on immigrants when they show up. either you are following a jesus of your own making which i would argue many of us are, or you are

following a jesus that forces you to have to wrestle with a real what would jesus not do, but what did jesus do. what did he do? we got a ways to go. we got a ways to go. >> i feel like i got challenged. you looked at me like i couldn't handle it. >> don't let the eagle get the best of you, bro. i see the sweat. >> i'm starting to see jesus. he doesn't look like charles manson, so that's good. your ver, your mammoth masterpiece. and...whatever this was. because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh.

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i still have a lot of questions about mega churches. time to lawyer up. do they have church lawyers? of course they do. >> is church a business? >> is church a business. they have to be run like a business often times. >> matt anthony runs a church law group. >> they have to accomplish their charitable purpose. >> now charities have to report how much they are given. it ends up where you think it's supposed to go. do churches have the same? >> charities have to file a public information tax return. they do not have to file a 990.

>> do you think there is a separation of church and state in america? >> primarily there is. there is exceptions and time when the line is crossed. especially when it comes to politics. >> church and politics need to mix, but the way jesus intended. enjoy your holiday. let's get into one of the most controversial topics. the separation of church and state. the phrase separation of church and state was coined by baptists and they department want to be treated like a business, but away from financial ties and no law should respect an establishment of religion and then tax exempt status and then no checks and balances on what's happening in the church. let's be honest, the founders never imagined mega churches as well as a billionaire wants to

throw you a flame thrower. they're getting tax free money and funding political campaigns. things have not kprated like this. how does it affect the people in the pews. >> you are not allowed to ask me. >> that's not what they told me. >> i'm at half price books with charmaine. >> could you see yourself as a member of a mega church? >> i went to church a lot as a kid and i go occasionally, but real occasionally. it's what point did you go to church yourself? >> back in 1994 when my sister passed away and i was searching for answers. a friend of mine called me and said i'm going to the potters' house. the church was rocking and he came in and took us home with the sermon. it was unbelievable.

i was there for 16 years. i was not as focused and my mind was drifting. what's he talking about? i couldn't remember the sermon later on. one night was channel curving. this was the first time i heard him preach. that was tuning into god's frequency. that was really good. >> like fellowship, gateway church is a multisite mega church in dallas with a weekly attendance of nearly 30,000 people. it's one of the biggest and most conservative in the country. it has revenues of over $120 million. pastor ed looks like the mead the jesus they were talking about. >> what i found was how to have a relationship with god. >> the primary difference is that it's predominantly white.

i'm black and got a fro. sometimes i'm rocking it and walking into this predominantly white church and they try to figure me out. i remember going to shake someone's hand. okay, so you haven't touched very many black people. that sort of thing. >> the limp hand shake. >> exactly. >> i'm used to it. >> you don't want to be used to it at church. >> how long did you go to gateway. >> i left after november 9th, 2016th. >> the day after the election of trump. what made you do so? >> robert morris gave us talking points. >> we need to vote biblical principals. >> telling people to vote for trump. he said everything but his name. >> we're will give you a voter guide that shows you the values that each person stands for and then you pray and cast your

ball ballots. >> 58% of trump voters were protestant christians. when you have millions of people watching on line and thousands of people attending, they can tweak the message of jesus to align with the candidate they want to you support. >> a couple of weeks prior, there was an announcement we are going to tear racism down one conversation at a time and now you are telling me to vote for a racist. that doesn't jive with me. i couldn't dismiss the fact that we have different political ideologies. we also have different social ideologies. >> what has been the process for trying to find a new church. >> i wrote down the names of churches i wanted to visit. throw them in a ziploc baggy. i haven't found gag is resonating with me.

except for the potters'. i may wind up bag there. i don't know. >> like lebron going back to cleveland. >> we have to go there. >> that are would be a big return. >> for would be. >> god works in mysterious ways. >> that's for sure. ll have a st. ♪ your stella, miss. thank you! ♪ wild night, huh? white russian? nah, gary, gimme a stella art-toes. excuse me... good choice. well, changing can do a little good... dude abides. what would i say to somebody keep being you.?

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the bigger the church, the most powerful the church. since churches don't have government oversight, that power can lead to abuses of the worst kind. we heard about it a lot in the catholic church, but it's not just the vatican. >> troubling accusations of sexual abuse at independent fundamental baptist churches across the country. >> virgin is not a sexual preference nor is it your birth right. >> a poet and activist uses her story to confront the church's history of abuse. >> this ends with me. >> inspired by her me, too, emily dropped the hash tag church, too. >> a lot of my stuff is religious stuff, with met tors and stuff. it's the language my brain speaks. >> what was church like as a kid? >> my dad was a southern baptist

when i was born. it was the locust of my purpose. as a young person, the church most formative for me in junior high and high school was a non-denominational mega church. there was fog machines and it was my entire special because we were home school and we didn't have school friends. the community was so large, it gave us the opportunity to make lots of friends. >> i think about my grandmother and it was not just a thing you did on sunday, but all week. it was for people to check in with you. if you weren't at church, you find out what was going on. >> and somebody would text me and you thought you had a community. >> my grandmother didn't text. they just stopped by. >> it's so important for so many people. when it betrays you, you almost feel like your whole life is having the rug ripped out from

under you. what happened was i was groomed for a romantic relationship when i was 16 by a respected volunteer leader who was in his 30s. the way that predators work is they groom their victims by slowly breaking down one boundary at a time, but it's little. a chip here and a chip here and all of a sudden you have conversations that are way inappropriate. there was a lot of talking about all the things he wanted to do to me and marry me and all of this stuff. at 16, you kind of fancy yourself an adult. no one ever said a 16-year-old can't consent to a man in his 30s, especially a spiritual authority. when it was found out, the church kind of swept it under the rug and my parents blame and punished me. they made me call him and apologize to him. that was the last time i sfoek

hi spoke to him. me apologizing to him. that put me in a dark place for a really long time. >> i see that as so complicated. the church i would imagine is i'm supposed to be sharing my feelings with people at the church. >> i'm supposed to share with my youth leaders. harvey weinstein is not justifying his actions with a chapter or verse in the bible. a pastor will do that. i don't know what to do with this. me too happened and i was like should i out my abuser on twitter right now? probably, huh? okay. i'm going to do it. so i sat down and i wrote it out and i pressed the button. by the morning it had gone viral. this was a thing that is resonating. >> did you include his name?

>> oh, yeah. and the name of the church. i name names always. sometimes it's not safe. for me it was, so i did. >> how did you feel about the response? >> i was shocked that all of a sudden it was actually gaping traction and people were caring and people were sharing the stories and people were like calling me, wanting to do interviews and all this stuff. y'all care? so many people, so many lovely people have been trying for a long time to get these stories into the public eye and now they are and i'm grateful. >> do you ever imagine seeing the abuser again? those ideas and thoughts and what you would say? >> what i would say? >> yeah. >> i would say you messed with the wrong bitch. there's nothing more important

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even when she does drag shows on sunday mornings. >> it's the largest lgbtq church in the world. his mission is simple. change the narrative. >> this is family in 1972. out of the lgbt movement. >> i can tell you were born and raised here in dallas. >> east dallas. i was born and raised in great britain and i came to learn very quickly that the church could be wrong. the church is really a human-made institution and has rules and regulations that often have nothing to do with the one we follow as we call jesus. that was helpful to me as i later came out as a gay man. >> you are doing all the things. how long have you been here? >> 3.5 years. >> all right. >> part of what i wanted to do is to welcome people who have left churches because they can't

cope with the hate that is often preached in their churches. i know mega church pastors who would never admit they know me, but the pastors wish they had the courage to preach what you preach. if i do, i envision my pulpit. >> how does this welcome the face of christianity? do you feel a need to compete with that in some way? >> no. i think you live with authenticity. people are tired of unauthentic leadership. we have to take responsibility for what the church has created. the church created racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia. not because of jesus, but white privilege and power and money. our job is to break those systems of oppression. that includes calling the church to repettance. no social justice ever in the united states has been

successful without the church on board. >> you head south of the city, one of the largest mega churches is friendship west baptist church is by freddie haynes. >> they're devalue women and people of color. ageism overlooks the age and those who are differently abled are treated as second class citizens. the improverished are rendered invisible and have no voice. >> for 35 years, dr. haynes served as a visionary and membership has grown from less than 100 members to nearly 14,000 today. the work he does and also because he shaves like a horseshoe. how do you fit into this? >> strange because i have been told that a church that emphasizes social justice can grow and attract people and that

has been the emphasis and i think we contradict that. >> a lot of it is connected to wealth. some like nba basketball players. not starting money, but six-man money. doing already. >> that's good money. >> i googled your net worth and didn't find anything. >> that's a reflection of what i have. >> but being in a thblg huge and ornate, people suspect you are in line with the people whose net worth you can't say. >> it's an instrument of service to the community. that's why it's called the friendship worship and conference center. >> this is the back to school block party. we are doing free haircuts and free immunizations. >> we are having a massive career fair. >> we use it for much needed economic empowerment on the side of town that neglected my

ministerial hero, martin luther king, jr. what would his ministry look like in the 21st century? that's what we tried to build. >> some say i stay out of politics, but certainly people stand and say everything but. i think you should vote for sbh someone who is making america great again. what do you think about not being political? >> i think it's kind of fake to say you are not political because you can't go to the bathroom without it being political. why not have some kind of influence that is righteous? for me it's like i can't help but be involved in politics because i'm pushing for justice. >> 26-year-old botham john was shot and killed by off duty police officer who thought he was a burglar. he was watching a football game. >> he was in his apartment

minding his business and a church worship leader gets shot. i was determined that we take advantage of this moment to make some serious systemic changes. i joined in the marches and the protests. always have been in conversation with the mayor and the district attorney as well as the police chief. >> we are calling for the dallas police department to do everything they need to do to reform that police department. >> we have been involved from talking to those in the suites to those dealing with trying to push for change in the streets. >> so what are you doing tonight? >> tonight is bible study. >> when i think bible study, i think steal cookies and quiet reflection. there is a message to be heard tonight like any given sunday. a choir, choreographed dancers and a cathedral with eager

members anxious to hear the pastor tell it like it is. >> betrayal can make you bitter. have you felt betrayed by a country. i'm talking about this one. it happens. i told you all how there is a t-shirt that said don't let [ cheers ] >> y'all are church people. you're not supposed to know about that t-shirt. okay? when you are secure in your walk with god, don't let what they do to you get in you but keep your eyes on the destiny that god has for you and your eyes on that destiny say it's even betrayal can be used to get me where god is trying to take me and i always rise again even when you throw me down. >> coming out of there,

listening to pastor fredy haynes. they call it bible study. when i was in there, i wasn't making a tv show. i was just in church. all the stuff he was talking about, stuff i think about and talk to my friend my people about. a lot of americans stop going to church at some point becausie t it's not speaking to them anymore. i'm like wait a minute, this one is talking to me. anyway, i'm glad to know it's here because one day i might need it. [ laughter ] the unmistakable le. lease the 2019 is 300 for $329 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪

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the purpose of going into minuistries because you have a calling and want to share it with the people. you have build your church. >> hello. >> how are you? >> good. >> i'm michael. >> nice to meet you. we're about to hop a fence. >> we're hopping a fence? this is real texas -- we're hopping this fence for the lord? you showed me the holy hop. three years ago it was held out of a member's living room and today they fill a high school auditorium and it's one of the fastest growing churches in dallas. he's co-pastor. this is your property? >> it will be in a few months, yeah. >> he's literally looking to break new ground. >> how big is your congregation now? >> if they came all on one sunday, six or 700 and in the

neck decade, there will be tens of thousands of homes from here. >> this is an if you build it, they will come. >> they are coming. >> where does the money come? >> we share the vision of what we want to do. we doesn't ask for money. we don't pass a plate. if people believe in what we're doing, they ask. how can we give to this? there is a box in the back. right now they have given enough for us to buy this land -- >> this is all donations from your congregation? >> yeah, isn't that amazing? >> i remember the bible verse, rich men, heaven. i don't remember. you probably got it. >> it in there somewhere. >> rich men getting into heaven. >> harder than a camel -- >> there you go. you see preachers living high on the hog. >> i see that stuff. it doesn't make sense to me. i can't imagine you get into the ministry ever thinking you would be rich. you know, all of a sudden your church grows and if you don't have accountability in place,

you think it's about you. we've done everything we can to make sure that's not going to happen because i think the church culture in america is suffering. i think people fall away from the church. why? i know a lot of churches have become, it's like a self-help seminar with a rock show as the opening act. hey, look, that's great free entertainment but you leave saying, man, i feel pretty good. that was good but it's not changing you. >> yeah. >> we go to these buildings one day a week and go home and try to live life. when jesus came in, it was about this. this is church. i need you. you need me. >> we're more than -- two of us are more. >> two more gathered. right. because i don't know if you've noticed, it's tough. >> yeah. >> right? where do you go for answers? you go to your friends. we need to be able to talk and have conversations. how do you do this, man? >> i have a tv show to go talk

to interesting people and have those conversations. >> not everyone gets to do that. >> i'm living a privileged lifestyle. this week i'm talking to multiple different ministers and even still, i'm a person as i get older and have more kids, i need to show up back in church again. >> you don't have to go back to a building. you just need to find people to have these conversations with. >> everything you're saying is everything i think people want to hear. >> we want to have everybody come here, not on sundays but like this. >> i love the feeling of standing on this land imagining what is coming next. >> it's exciting. >> can you pray for me right now? can we do that? >> is this okay? >> fine with me. i felt like you were talking about it -- >> let do it. >> can i put my hand on you? i don't want you to feel weird. >> no. >> lord, we love you. this is unbelievable that you have from where he was raised, where he was born, you have him on this platform to speak to the

whole world. he gets to talk about things no one wants to talk about, and he can change the world and change for the good. so we ask all those things for your name in jesus name, amen. >> amen. >> can i give you -- >> i'm a hugger, come on, man. >> you touched me, i'm going to hug you. >> thank you, manment. appreciate it. >> i want to come back and see it be the place you want it to be. if you don't know me and you have sun glasses on and a cessna lands and you're wearing a linen white suit. >> you're going to the wrong church, bro. >> your boots will be bedazzled. >> keep checking in on us. >> today the face of christianity is the mega church and if you want a mega church, it up to you. if you want to do good deeds for the community, great. if you want to confront the political system, absolutely. if you're okay with your pastor getting rich in the process, it

up to you. not what would jesus do? did jesus do. these churches will power, influence followers and shape the world we live in or. >> $3,700 for three years of food in these beautiful buckets. when we first pitched this show, you should know the whole idea behind this show is that it's a show where a black guy goes places either he shouldn't go or you wouldn't expect him to go. and we're like oh, where should we go? i was like, i don't know, maybe i should go talk to the ku klux klan. that was their reaction. [ laughter ] that was exactly -- hmm. then it got quiet for a long time. but i could tell it was that kind of quiet where they were like that might be good for ratings. but kamau might die. but that might be really good for ratings. [ laughter ] when i pitched the ku klux klan idea i didn't think they'd actually let me do it. you know w