the house of representatives. but they're alive and well among the american people. and there's a direct connection and really the saddest of all is while the attorney general was sitting there withholding the truth from congress, misrepresenting, being inconsistent in his statements, the shame, how could he do such a thing, but again, having the support of the republicans in congress and the senators behaving in a way that is said to them we don't care about the branch of government in which we serve. we're not even loyal to strengthening the institution of which we are a part. sitting there once again, his justice department was intensifying its assault on the affordable care act. and they did their filing, their

further filing to get rid of the entire affordable care act. so that's what it means to people with pre-existing conditions. his sitting there in that arrogance, i don't care about your pre-existing condition. i care about the special interests in our country. that was the message of barr. so the connecting of the dots between mitch mcconnell, the republican agenda, and congress, such as it is, the special interest agenda, fueled by dark special interest money, that's what that hearing was about. it wasn't about technicalities. it wasn't about who wrote the letter and how he characterized the letter. that's interesting. but what is deadly serious about it is the attorney general of the united states of america was not telling the truth to the congress of the united states. that's a crime.

yes. >> what are you considering for members of the administration who don't comply with congressional subpoenas? >> well, i have great confidence in our committees. we have six committees that have -- five of them have subpoenas, so far, we don't have one from the foreign affairs committee. but five of the six committees of jurisdiction have the potential for subpoenas. they haven't all issued subpoenas, but that's where we see some of that activity. as you probably know on the articles of impeachment for president nixon, article iii was he ignored the subpoenas of congress, he did not honor the subpoenas of congress. this is very, very serious. but my judgment will spring from the judgment of our committee chairs. and in terms of -- i was looking

at mr. nadler's statement. the close of his statement today relating to the attorney general, he said history will judge us on how we face this challenge. we will be held accountable one way or another. and if he, barr, does not provide this committee with the information it demands and the respect it deserves, mr. barr's moment of accountability will come soon enough. and i think that probably applies. i said the committees are trying to make accommodations in terms of receiving the redacting -- receiving unredacted mueller report. let them work their will and then we'll go to the next step. >> did the attorney general commit a crime? >> he lied to congress. he lied to congress. and if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. nobody is above the law. not the president of the united states, and not the attorney general. being attorney general does not

give you a back to go say whatever you want, and it is the fact, because you are the attorney general. it just isn't true. >> should he go to jail for it? >> there's a process involved here, and as i said, i'll say it again, the committee will act upon how we will proceed. >> speaker pelosi, last week you said you wanted your caucus to focus on the investigations that are already ongoing. given the fact you can't get information, given the fact there has been this unprecedented obstruction from the white house, do you think the time has come to move that impeachment deadline up? >> no, i think that the statements being made by the president of the united states has given a blanket statement that he's not going to honor any subpoenas, is obstruction of justice. i think that many of the statements that the administration has made has been about obstruction of justice.

we are in a very, very, very challenging place because we have a republican party in the congress who are complicit in the special interest agenda of the national rifle association, the fossil fuel industry, the special interests writ large. so they're not going to say anything. so that's why i say sometimes impeachment is the easy way out for some of these people, because they know it will end at the senate's edge. but the fact is that we still have that responsibility. now, many people, and i completely agree with them, our responsibility is to create jobs, protect their access to health care as we said, and our for the people agenda. lower the cost of health care by lowering the cost of prescription drugs. bigger paychecks by building the infrastructure of america, and cleaner government by passing

hr-1 and other initiatives that would spring from that. so there is a direct relationship between health care in america and the behavior of the attorney general of the united states, who is taking the lead on overturning the affordable care act, which has within it the legislation, the law to protect people with pre-existing conditions. and the list goes on and on. so again, every day that goes by, we see more reason why the republicans in congress should respect their own oath of office and send a message to this administration that while they share their special interest agenda, that it should not include undermining the constitution of the united states. >> mr. trump got tweeted this week that the working people

want to get to yes on the new nafta. >> yes. >> do you want to spend time to get a consensus in your caucus on what enforcement is needed for the new nafta and how to change the biologics provision so democrats can also get to yes? >> yes, and i would add to that the environmental provisions. but the three provisions are -- what it means for america's workers, and we want it to be positive for america's workers, but you don't help america's workers by exploiting workers in mexico. the lower their pay, the worse it is for american workers. it's about american workers. it's about the environment, and again, the climate issue. we're voting right now on climate action now. the environmental issues are very important to us. as a californian, i can attest to the need for us to improve the provisions there. and then the biologics. there's a concern for members,

but the overarching issue is enforcement. you can have all the good language in the world you want, but if you don't have enforcement, you're just having a conversation. you're not having a real negotiation. >> are you working to get a consensus on what kind of enforcement is needed? >> yeah, there's different suggestions. but i say it has to be part of the agreement. it can't be a sidebar or a side letter, or later legislation or anything like that. to your basic first question, yes, we would like to get to yes. i thought it would be easier than this because we have been clear about enforcement in any trade agreement, whether it's with china or whether it's with in our own hemisphere, that enforcement is key to all of it. did you have a question? >> you answered it. >> on infrastructure with your big meeting earlier this week with the president, in a couple weeks, you're expecting him to come up with payfors. what do you have in mind talking

to republicans on capitol hill? it sounds like they're not looking at a gas tax, increasing the gas tax. what is your opinion on this? >> my opinion is that we'll wait to hear what the president has to say. he's worked -- i spoke to him since the meeting and he said we're going to be putting together some of the acceptable pay-fors are for him and we look forward to hearing what he has to say. we are pleased the president took it up to $2 trillion. what we would like to see is that they would make a commitment that would be 80/20, 80 from the federal government, 20 from the locality. it would be in terms of climate, have resiliency in it. you can't build infrastructure for the future without resiliency relating to the climate, and we want to see women, veterans, and minority owned businesses to participate in the prosperity that this will bring, and we want to see

prevailing wage to be part of it because we have always been about building bigger paychecks. by building infrastructure of america in a green way. that's what we hope we can do working together. it was a positive meeting. we advanced the discussion down the road. and we'll see what the president has to say when he acts, but this is so important. it's about commerce. it's about clean air, clean water. so it's a public health issue. it's about the jobs of building infrastructure, but also the commerce that it would create. it's a quality of life issue for people to get them out of their cars so they can spend more time with their families. >> you said that you spoke to him after the meeting, was that strictly on infrastructure or did you talk about immigration or anything else? >> no, we talked about bringing down the price of prescription drugs, but only touched upon the fact we want to, as we finish up

with the funding, et cetera, and our proposal, not finished, but as we progress on our proposal for the infrastructure, that we would move on to how we can lower the cost of prescription drugs. thank you all very much. let me just say, as i leave you, we had such sad, sad news with the passing of our former colleague, ellen tousher of california. she was a wonderful leader when she served in the congress. took her experience and values out to the community, being a fighter for nuclear nonproliferation, in her history before she came to the congress, she was one of the youngest and i think the first or one of the earliest women to have a seat on the new york stock exchange. she was a pioneer every place she served. she was a leader. she was a friend, a mom, took great pride in her daughter catherine, and it's really a sad

loss for us. i was so pleased so many californians and others joined us in a moment of silence for her on the floor of the house. the day before yesterday. was that yesterday? i lost track. yesterday, just yesterday. but we'll be honoring her more, but we'll always be missing her. we carry her in our hearts. congresswoman ellen tousher of california. thank you. >> you're listening there to the house speaker, nancy pelosi, honoring a former member of congress who has recently passed. also, before that, making a very serious statement and a very serious charge against the attorney general of the united states. let me bring in right now cnn's manu raju on capitol hill. nancy pelosi saying a second ago, the attorney general was not telling the truth to the congress of the united states. that's a crime. >> significant. very significant. her exact words. he lied to congress.

he lied to congress, if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. nobody is above the law. not the president of the united states, not the attorney general. she was asked if barr should go to jail, and she said there's a process involved here, and as i said, the committees will act as how we proceed. all this comes after democrats have been furious at the attorney general for not appearing before the house judiciary committee this morning in light of their demands to schedule the format of the hearing that would allow for staff attorneys to question the attorney general, bill barr said no. he wasn't going to listen to that format, he wasn't going to appear. this is just part of a series of efforts to essentially stiff-arm congress and not provide information that democrats have been asking for. republicans say this is all a democratic fishing expedition, but democrats have the subpoena power and they plan to move forward. one of the things she was asked

also at this press conference is whether or not she has changed her tune a bit on impeachment. of course, she's thrown cold water about proceeding on impeachment. she referred to one of the articles of impeachment involving president nixon, which was essentially defying congress, showing contempt towards congress, not listening to subpoenas of congress. and in light of the administration ignoring these -- refusing to comply with congressional subpoenas, namely, turning over the full unredacted mueller report to the how judiciary committee, some democrats including ted lieu, have told me that they will pursue impeachment in light of that. pelosi did not go that far, but she did reference that. that's going to be one of the democratic arguments going forward to pursue impeachment. of course, republicans are saying bring it on. if you want to impeach the president, bring it on because any effort will be fruitless. >> also on this moment where nancy pelosi is taking a stand

here, and when she was asked did he commit a crime, and she said he lied to congress. which as we know is a crime, and that's what she's implying. she also did not lay out, and was careful not to lay out what she thinks should happen now. leaving it to the committees. that's significant, but where does that leave the congress? where does that leave the attorney general right now? >> well, the house judiciary committee is signaling they're going to move forward to hold the attorney general in contempt. that is a step that in a large way is symbolic. it doesn't amount to a whole lot. republicans did a similar move for attorney general eric holder in the obama administration. so the republicans are not too concerned about that. there's really little recourse that democrats can do other than try to fight some of their demands for records in court. the rhetoric could be certainly sharpening, as we heard here, essentially calling the attorney general of the united states a

criminal. saying something that other people are going to jail for, lying to congress, including michael cohen, the president's former attorney, but she's making it clear, she sidestepped that question, whether or not she thinks the attorney general should be jailed, no one thinks that's going to happen because the power of congress in a lot of ways is symbolic in the issue of holding these people in contempt, which they plan to do. but what more likely will happen is court fights playing out to get everything that democrats are demanding. will they succeed? that's a whole entirely different question. >> entirely different question and a long way off. that's the thing about when you move in the contempt front. leveling a threat, no less. that's definitely one thing that happened today. a very new threat coming from the house speaker. great to see you, manu. thank you so much. i appreciate it. let me bring in now asha, the cnn national security analyst. julie hirshfield davis, congressional correspondent for "the new york times," and michael zeldin, cnn legal analyst and robert mueller's

former assistant at the department of justice for a time. michael, let me start with you. from what we just heard from nancy pelosi and as manu was laying out the state of play, as nancy pelosi said what the attorney general did in not telling the truth to congress is that he -- she said that is a crime. that gets to perjury. where are you on this? what is the bar for perjury here for the attorney general of the united states? >> it's a very high bar. the supreme court in this case, braunsten, set a bar that does not allow for prosecution of materially misleading statements that aren't technically untrue. i think that this case, which would have to go from congress in a referral to the united states attorney's office for consideration for prosecution, that whole process is from one sort of trumperson to another trump person, is not likely to result in a prosecution. but even if it was, i think that

what we saw with barr's answers was an intent to mislead or an attempt not to answer the question, but not rising to the level that is a prosecutable crime, so i think pelosi's response was more visceral, that this guy is just not being forthcoming with us, rather than this guy committed an actionable criminal offense that the united states attorney's office in the district of columbia should consider prosecution for. but i may be wrong. she may really think that they'll question and answer by crist and van hollen were specific enough and the answer was specific enough to support a lie. i don't think so though. >> let me for important context as you're pointing out charlie crist, he was speaking at an appropriations committee hearing in early april. van hollen in a senate appropriations hearing one day

later, that is we assume what nancy pelosi is getting to in terms of telling a lie. asha, let me play for our viewers the context, the back and forth with charlie crist and the attorney general and what this is all kind of centering around and what this is also why one of the reasons we have bill barr not showing up and why there was an empty chair at the hearing that was supposed to be happening today in the house. listen to this. >> reports have emerged recently, general, that members of the special counsel's team are frustrated at some level with the limited information included in your march 24th letter, that it does not adequately or accurately necessarily portray the report's findings. do you know what they're referencing with that? >> no, i don't. >> and then we know the letter came out that had already been sent to bill barr at that time, the letter we have recently seen from the special counsel himself, asha, who said he was

taking issue with the summaries bill barr had been laying out. what do you make of this, asha? >> you know, at this point, i think -- i agree with michael, that he was trying to mislead and obfuscate really at every step. and you know, i don't know. i disagreed that his statement there doesn't meet the threshold. at that point, we know that he had several contacts with the mueller team and with mueller himself indicating they were displeased with the way he had put out his information. that's even memorialized in writing. it strains credulity to believe he did not know that his answer was false. and so i believe that, you know, there is a there there in this case. >> julie -- >> may i just add one thing? >> sure. >> just one thing.

>> i don't mean to disagree with asha because she's at yale and i'm at harvard. that has nothing to do with it. the issue here is in that clip when barr said no i don't, and then we ended it, he goes on to say, but i suspect that they probably wanted more information to be released. so he continues his answer. and it's the continuation of that answer that i think undermines the possibility that this is a prosecutable offense. >> okay. so julie, let me bring you in. where this has led to today is what has gone from a packed house to an empty chair on capitol hill. the hearing that was supposed to happen this morning at 9:00, the attorney general supposed to sit before the house judiciary committee answering questions about all of this, he did not show up. the reason is format, is what they say. right? because the chairman, he wanted to have committee attorneys asking some questions at some point to the attorney general. >> right. >> why do you think nadler went

this route? >> well, why did he go the route of the empty chair? i think because democrats are trying to show and sort of to dramatize for the public the degree to which they're being stiffed by the administration on some of these questions. in the wake of that testimony yesterday. house democrats want to ask and not just following up on the point that crist raised with the attorney general and also this whole issue of why mueller disagreed with the way he -- barr characterized the report and some of the underlying issues. i think the challenge here for democrats is they're trying to sort of lay the predicate that might lead to impeachment without actually actively talking about impeachment. the precedent we have for when staff attorneys have questioned a cabinet official in the past was the nixon impeachment. but they don't want to go that route. you heard nancy pelosi very carefully dance around that question and say, you know, it's

a process. we haven't decided. it's up to the chairman, which she's been doing, i think pretty effectively, but it gets more and more difficult the more of these confrontations we see. now that she's said -- now that pelosi has said the attorney general has committed a crime, the question is naturally going to be what are they going to do about it? if they are able to carry on a set of hearings with people interviewed by the special counsel and lay out in a more vivid way for the public what the actual obstruction elements are that they keep referring to, they're ultimately going to be faced with the question of, okay, so what then. so there's kind of maneuvering in a difficult space. they're trying to figure out how to impeach without impeaching in a certain way, and that's some of what we're seeing unfolding today. >> as you see nancy pelosi coming out and making the statement that really amazing statement that she did, you do wonder if that increases the chances at all, one iota, that bill barr is going to come to some agreement with the

judiciary committee to come appear to testify in the coming days. i would argue probably not. but god knows we are -- >> it is a negotiation. that's something to keep in mind. >> and maybe that's it. this is the latest, this threat without saying now we're going to move towards perjury, whatever, this is the part of the negotiation to get him to appear. we'll see. thank you so much. really appreciate it. coming up for us, a deeper dive into attorney general bill barr and his dramatic testimony yesterday. speaking pelosi saying he lied to congress, committed a crime. is that going too far? a reality check on the consistencies or inconsistencies from bill barr's testimony. reality check is next. hold my pouch. trust us. us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. don't think so? hold my pouch. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else.

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breaking just moments ago, house speaker nancy pelosi accusing the attorney general of the united states, bill barr, of lying to congress, which has everyone has learned, is a crime. this is one of many inconsistencies we're talking about when it comes to the attorney general. john avlon has been taking -- he's taken a deep dive into the inconsistencies. >> a little more context on the tough talk from nancy pelosi today. let's delve back and figure out what had people fired up yesterday. as you know, justice is supposed to be beyond partisan consideration. credibility comes from being objective and fair, rooted in fact. but yesterday, the head of the justice department, attorney general bill barr, again seemed to show he considers himself part of the trump legal defense team. time after time, barr showed an unwillingness to confront facts unfavorable to his boss and even unflarment with the mueller report itself. they got off to a rocky start

because they found out mueller expressed concern about the report in march. they said mueller emphasized nothing in the attorney general's letter was inaccurate or misleading, but barr's own letter said barr did not fully capture the context, nature, and conclusion. that's one way to say misleading. speaking of misleading, that's what bill barr seemed to be in april when he said he didn't know whether the special counsel supported his conclusions. he said doj policy that a sitting president can't be indicted had no impact on mueller's work, despite the context of the report itself. he also reiterated the republican talking point because mueller wasn't fired, there was no obstruction. that wasn't for lack of trying. we know president trump asked multiple people multiple times to derail the investigation. he tried to get don mcgahn to get ag sessions to unrecuse himself, even asked the campaign

manager to re-enforce thament message. the fact they repeatedly ignored his orders isn't exoneration as much as they knew what he was asking was strong. barr also showed a strange unfamiliarity with facts including whether information had been given to the russians. we learned lindsey graham hasn't even finished reading the report, two weeks after it was released. barr also conveniently forgot lot, like how many ongoing investigations were referred to the special counsel. by the way, the answer is 14 with all but two redacted. and convenient amnesia about whether he had spoken to anyone in the white house about these cases. >> i don't recall, no. >> now, i don't recall, that's often legalese for telling truth would cause problems. bar had a much clearer memory when it came to questions about former fbi director james comey. >> did you have a problem with

the way comey handled the clinton email investigation? >> yes, i said so at the time. >> except it would appear he didn't always. don't take my word for it. here's bill barr himself writing in "the washington post" before the election, james comey did the right thing. look, lindsey graham made it clear that all of this is case closed to him, ignoring the ongoing cases and investigations. barr and graham made it clear they would follow the president's command to investigate the investigators. another sign of a dangerous precedent being set as norms are being undermined in front of our eyes. >> you have a real check, but there's also something new or that hasn't emerged yet. a real divide that we're seeing between bill barr and bob mueller. and the context, of course, as you know and all of our viewers will remember, these two men not only have they been working together, they have been friends in real life.

>> not tv friends, real friends. >> real friends for some 30 years. and then barr more than once during the hearing either, like, hit him directly or imprlicitly was criticizing his work. i want to play this moment. it all comes down to snitty. >> this letter was an extraordinary act. a career prosecutor rebuking the attorney general of the united states, memorializing in writing, right? i know of no other instance of that happening. do you? >> i don't consider bob at this stage a career prosecutor. he's had a career as a prosecutor. >> he was the head of the fbi for 12 years. >> he's a career -- he's a career law enforcement professional. >> yeah. >> i know of no other instance -- >> but he was also a political appointee and a political appointee with me at the department of justice. you know, the letter is a bit

snitty, and i think it was probably written by one of his staff people. >> he's like, i'm going to read it again. it really is striking. what do you make of this? >> what i make of it is harry truman's own line if you want a friend in washington, get a dog. snitty is the sound of the bus rolling over his long friendship with robert mueller. it's sad because that was one thing that created a lot of confidence in bill barr, in his nomination. not that there would be faverism, but there was this decades long personal relationship, so he would be less likely to pursue the president's vendettas, but he was dismissive. at least as it comes to his characterization of the report. the report is clear. bill barr seemed to be carrying the president's water. >> it's not just the after the fact stuff he's getting snitty about. it was also on substance. the fact he clearly was not happy mueller didn't reach a conclusion on obstruction and

said he was surprised and also said he didn't reach a conclusion, saying it was the very purpose, the function he was carrying out. i wonder if it gets to as simple as that, barr doesn't think mueller did his job. >> i doubt that very much. there does seem to me, and if you hear from the president's attorneys, dismissiveness that he couldn't make up his mind. that said, it's clear mueller found constrained because despite barr's dismissal and the whole reason barr told congress he was able to write his conclusion and release the top line letter in 48 hours of a 448-page report is he was already familiar with mueller's top line conclusions. so you know, it was not like he was taken aback by it. >> also i guess then, how do you criticize that he didn't do his job if then you base your conclusion, and you say his findings are the final word, also not even seeing the underlying evidence that he provided. >> a little contradiction there

that you're right in finding out. >> you may have found one more. >> just one more. this is serious stuff. >> it is. >> robert mueller is kind of the last boy scout. and bill barr came in with a really pretty sterling reputation, despite having a strong strew about executive power. that friendship would appear to be fractured on professional grounds because one guy played it by the book and the other with the executive. >> the last person with the last word on that may be bob mueller. great to see you. we're friends in real life, just saying. >> coming up, we go back to venezuela. protests are escalating as the head of the country's secret police is joining the opposition. as the united states is warning it's ready for military action. we'll take you there live. be right back.

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now, we have been watching violent clashes erupt over the last few days in venezuela. this is amid the opposition leader juan guaido's call to rise up against the embattled president of the united states, nicolas maduro. now a new twist, the head of venezuela's secret police is breaking ranks with maduro, writing an open letter criticizing the thieves and scoundrels he says are plundering the country. michael holmes is joining me now from caracas with much more. great to see you, michael. this is another break from maduro as this all really started evilating 48 hours ago.

what are you seeing there now? >> yeah, it's all about momentum, isn't it, kate? that's a question at the moment. is where that momentum lies. two days of protests. tuesday, one guaido pretty much was saying this was the beginning of the end for nicolas maduro and he stood there with some military uniformed officers next to him. and that was certainly a significant moment, but it was only a few. let's be realistic about this, and by the end of tuesday's demonstration, it was mr. maduro on state television surrounded by generals saying hey, i'm still here. yesterday, the clashes did intensify. we were down among it. there was a lot of tear gas fired. there were many injuries. probably a couple of deaths. we're working to confirm at the moment as well. we heard firing being done as well. it was a pretty dramatic day. a lot of tear gas and a lot of people being treated for inhalation as well as other wounds. as i said, you have juan guaido

and mr. maduro calling for more protests today. interestingly, it's getting towards the middle of the day and nothing significant is happening on the streets. that's got to be concerning for juan guaido and his mission to unseat mr. maduro because if he doesn't maintain that momentum his supporters are going to start to think their sacrifice on the street is getting nowhere and their whole campaign is slipping back into stalemate once again. this has been going on for months. let's remember. and a lot of people had high hopes that tuesday would lead to something. yesterday, a lot of people out there at his bidding. today, not much going on. that's pretty pivotal. >> that's a big statement, especially as you say, it's all about who has momentum at this very moment, and a critical moment it. >> still coming up, house speaker pulelosi saying the attorney general of the united states lied to congress, and she says before reporters

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for the national day of prayer. he was speaking in the rose garden. let's listen to what he said. >> should have been dead by now, based on the rule of statistics. i was in the line of fire, bullets flying all the way. my fingers got blown off, but i did not stop. i was taught as a jew, you are a soldier of god. you need to stand tall and stand fast and do whatever it takes to change the world. my life has changed forever, but it changed so i could make change. >> wow. that's some important perspective coming from a man who has ultimate perspective right now. rabbi goldstein speaking at the white house on the national day of prayer. we keep thinking of that and that perspective. and perspective is something that seems is lacking a lot in washington right now, because in this escalating fight between democrats and in the house and the white house, and the trump

administration over the mueller report, we have reached a new level. i want to play for you what house speaker nancy pelosi, what she said just moments ago. >> as the attorney general of the united states of america was not telling the truth to the congress of the united states. that's a crime. >> that's a crime. >> and that is a threat, but what does it mean? joining me right now is congressman lies mcbath of georgia who sits on the house judiciary committee. congressman, thanks so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i just want to ask you. do you agree with speaker pelosi and what she said that bill barr committed a crime? >> well, i would say in a sense these are crimes against americans. when we cannot effectively do our job in the united states congress and get the truth to the american people, that's an obstruction of justice. >> but what do you do about it? >> well, we continue to do what chairman nadler has said that we need to, that we will do with our committee.

we'll continue to press attorney general barr to come before us. we'll continue to press robert mueller to come before us. the american people deserve to have the truth, and, you know, the fact that even the trump administration filed a motion to effectively repeal the affordable care act, this is a tragedy to all -- all of the american citizens, so as i said earlier today, it's not just about the mueller report. we're talking about, you know, affordable health care. we're talking about our elections. we're talking about national security, and these are the things that we need to effectively make sure that we are dealing with for the american people. >> can you still hear me, congresswoman? >> i think her ear piece might have just popped out of her ear. i think we'll -- you know. what let's jump to a quick break and hopefully we'll reconnect with the congresswoman.

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welcome back. i think we have reconnected with congresswoman lucy mcbath of georgia. congresswoman, thanks so much for sticking around and the technical glitches. we were talking about what nancy pelosi had said earlier about how she said bill barr ride to congress. that is a crime. let me play that, just a reminder, for our viewers one more time. >> what is deadly serious about it is the attorney general of the united states of america was not telling the truth to the congress of the united states. that's a crime. he lied to congress. he lied to congress. if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime.

nobody is above the law. not the president of the united states and not the attorney general. >> congresswoman, you just told me that is obstruction of justice. if -- do you think that bill barr should go to jail over this? >> well, i -- it's not my decision to decide whether or not he goes to jail. i mean, once again we need to make sure that we get into the bottom of the truth, making sure that everything that is exposed in the mueller report, everything needs to be unredacted that comes to us. that is how we effectively through our checks and balances with congressional oversight make decisions going forward, so i can't say that at this time, but i do have to agree with the speaker that, yes, you know, there have been behaviors that are very, very troubling, behaviors not accountable to the american people and this has to be dealt with. >> one thing we were talking about today is the fact that bill barr did not show up for the testimony before your committee today. the next steps are you can

consider contempt, but there's a big question as to what the congress and the committee should do to force the attorney general to come over you. the goal is having staff attorneys ask some questions. if the goal is to get the attorney general to ask questions, congresswoman, why not work with him on the format to get him in that chair rather than basically now having to take him to court over it? >> well, simply because we know that the attorney general barr will be very evasive. he will not answer the questions in the format that he needs to which is direct. he needs to tell the true. he needs to be honest. he needs to be transparent. we know that's not going to happen so to effectively have individuals, also the attorneys to ask him more specific questions, to be able to get the information that is not going to be exposed just from the members that are asking questions on the judiciary committee, this is the format that we have chosen to be able to get as much information as we possibly can.

so if we're not afforded the opportunity to do that, the only other recourse we have at this point is the subpoena. >> we'll see the next step on that. i want to end, if i could, right before we came to you, we played sound from rabbi goldstein, wounded at the synagogue and one of his congregants was killed in an anti-semitic hate crime. you know very personally the tragedy of how gun violence can change a life in an instant and that's what rabbi goldstein was talking about there. just want to get your thoughts on this national day of prayer as he was talking about this. >> it's a very important day. it's so sad because we're having more and more opportunities where we're having to pray over the senseless carnage of gun violence in this country, and -- and the fact that, you know, each and every day you can turn on the television or listen to the radio or read on the media that there's been another

tragedy. this has been completed unfounded. this is not what america deserves, and so i -- i grieve along with the rabbi. i grieve every single time something like this happens because i know what people feel and what they think, and i don't wish this on anyone. >> your son, jordan david, no one will forget his name. >> thank you. >> you'll always lift it up. >> thank you so much for your time. thanks for joining me. "inside politics" with john king starts now. thank you, kate, and welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing your day with us. democrats scold an empty chair and warn of a constitutional crisis. attorney general william barr a no show on capitol hill today, and the house speaker says he lied to congress. it's a dramatic escalation of the trump white house war with house democrats and their aggressive