the same parent company as hbo. that will do it for me on this sunday night. that's it for me alex marquardt. up next "the redemption project" with van jones. enjoy your evening and have a happy mother's day. you have to always be aware of your surroundings. >> as a child coming up, it was definitely violent. >> the war was going on. >> do you know how upset i would be if something ever happened to you? and she said, yeah, daddy, i do. >> i never knew the violence i was capable of. i pulled the trigger from a 12-gauge shotgun. >> i have all these questions that i want to know.

i want to know it all. >> i spent half my life working with the criminal justice system. and i have seen lives devastated by violence. we would like to imagine that after the verdict the story is over, the victim and the offender are never meant to meet again. but for some, the only way to move forward is to come face-to-face with the person who shattered their lives. >> back in oakland i have a lot of history here. i was here for 15 years. i'm here in the bay area to meet an old friend and find out why he wants to meet the man who took his daughter's life.

>> you all ready to have some fun. >> doney lazy is known for two things. he's an entertainer. >> there you go. >> and heesz al's also an activ >> no more life can be spilled on the streets. highest price is life and more than anything we must value. >> when his daughter was killed in 1987 the impact went well beyond this. >> came to terms with the death of 16-year-old loeshe gun do you understand last night in this van. >> she was perfect kid that was never in trouble. sits in the wrong car and gets killed. that scares every parent in the bay area. >> her murder got wall to wall coverage for weeks and it was a real wake up call for this community. >> my brother. >> brother van jones, what's

happening, man? >> what's going on? >> thank you, man. i appreciate you, brother. >> oh, man, this is bringing back a lot of memories, man. >> it's a different west oakland. these kids are so used to seeing their contemporaries murdered. >> i'm still gone to more funerals than weddings in oakland. >> tell me about your daughter. >> she was just -- >> a special kid? >> yeah. >> and even how she was born was special? >> yeah, i delivered her on 580 freeway. her mom's water broke about 2 in the morning. >> yeah? >> she was driving and said i'm having this baby. i said i know honey that's why we are on the way to the hospital. she said no i'm having the baby right here. >> in the car? >> in the car. she was panicking and i was trying to keep her calm.

relax, honey, i can drive and deliver and i got this. and i was driving and pulling. and i pulled her out real gently to her shoulders. and then if propelled she dove on the floor of the car and made a splat. and her mom picked her up, i remember i looked at her it was like i saw the face of god. the name of a person describes the attributes of that person. so i picked two words, loeshe, which is the name meaning love. and then esha which means life. and i put the two together loeshe. means loving life. i loved her. me and her mom separated at when she was about three years old. we were so proud of her. >> so ironic someone that's a peaceful kid ends up having their life taken by a bullet. walk us through what happened. >> on october 20th, 1997, i was

in los angeles at the improve in hollywood. i was about to walk into the club, and i got a page from my wife, and it was like 911, 911. and i called her. and she was crying uncontrollably. and i kept saying what is it? and she couldn't speak. and then she said loeshe is dead. i don't -- it was -- i didn't -- i didn't understand what she was saying. and then i just kind of lost it, man, i remember i just ran down melrose until -- just sprinting down the middle of the street in traffic. and i was just thinking at that point i just wanted revenge. i don't know if it's every parent, but for me i want to

know everything. and some things i know from the police report, some things i don't. >> my girl was like boss. >> maya and porsche, those were probably her two best friends. maya was in the car with her when the gunfire happened. and i've been trying to talk to her about that night for 20 years. but it's always a difficult conversation to initiate and approach. >> i remember the first day i met her. we were in third grade. >> you met her around the same time. >> yeah, third grade at hoover. she was the life of the double ditch party. >> and we worked at mcdonald's. >> that's right. >> she got off work around 6:00, a young man who they knew in the neighborhood saw them and offered them a ride. and maya sat in front next to the driver in this van. then loeshe sat behind the driver.

and then they stopped right across the street from her high school. and for four assailants ran up in front of the van shooting at the driver and did about 40, 50 rounds, and he ducked, and she caught seven bullets. she was the only one who didn't survive. >> and the crazy thing is she was in the front seat and she told me to get in the front seat. that would have been me. because she was -- >> i never knew that. >> she said, maya, let's switch seats. i said for what? and the guy she was dating at the time, she said well i don't want him to see me and get jealous. i said, well, okay, you know. oh, boy. >> but i don't want you to carry

that around no more. you can't do that to yourself, baby girl. >> i know. >> i've been wanting to talk to you about it for a long time, you know. >> yeah. >> i'm so proud of ya'all, because i've seen you all as snotty kids and noup you are grown women and have kids of your own being responsible. >> that's what she would have wanted. >> yep. >> you've already been through a lot. for you to go and sit across from somebody who took your daughter's life, you don't have to do it, man. >> that's what a lot of people have been telling me. some have even been telling me don't do it. >> why are you doing it? >> i've been just imagining when we make eye contact for the first time what's that going to be like for him and what's it going to be like for me, you

know. i'm not going to bring her back, but i want to know it all. i have all these questions that i want to know. why did they shoot off 40 rounds or whatever it was? why were they so angry at this guy? why? why? why? and there are some things i want to say to him that i've been carrying around. as the one who is always trapped beneath the duvet i'm begging you... take gas-x. your tossing and turning isn't restlessness, it's gas!

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[spanish recording] so again, using "para", you're talking about something that is for someone. ♪ pretty good. could listening to audible inspire you to start something new? download audible and listen for a change. is your floor's best friend. only roomba uses 2 multi-surface rubber brushes to grab and remove pet hair. and the roomba filter captures 99% of dog and cat allergens. if it's not from irobot, it's not a roomba. iand i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is staying happy and healthy.

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and the thing about san quentin is, if you want to transform yourself, there are programs there. i mean, people go, they volunteer, they try to help. some people take advantage, some people don't. >> this is the fame tus san quentin yard. >> yeah. >> what am i looking at? >> you have the fellows playing soft ball today. >> how much time do the folks get? >> every day. >> so we'll go over to these tables over here. >> i was raised in oakland, california, all my life since i can remember. the truth of the matter was my

experience through my lens, there wasn't no good part of oakland for me. it was just rough. >> what's up? you got a ball. >> the closest that i had to consistency for my life was playing little league baseball for the city of oakland. this was the closest that i got to meaning. and that's something that i grabbed on to. you know, obviously, to take a human life, that's something that is hard for anybody to forgive or even maybe forgive one self. how do you want up pulling a trigger and a young woman dies? >> october 20th, 1997, i was 16 years old. the war was going on between rival gangs, milton street and ghost town. i got the call that my best

friend christopher fletcher had been shot. my gang was everything in the world to me. everybody had participated in this war up until this point except me. and everybody looking at me like, you ain't doing nothing. now, these same people that i perceive as family, they are turning their back on me. and i got myself in the mix. what's going on, who is doing what, when is it my turn. that's when it started. around seven or eight:00 we just rolled around the area real slow. and if we seen anyone of them we'll kill them. i was given a 12-gauge shotgun, and all of the shots started ringing out simultaneously.

that's it. i did it. >> did you think the car was empty? did you think anybody else was in there? >> i identified the vehicle as being the enemy's rival gang vehicle. >> but if you are shooting into that object, you know inside that object is people. i want to know how you make sense of that in that moment. >> i identified the vehicle, not so much the people that was inside. >> yes. >> although yes i could see there were people in the inside. >> and then you find out what? >> the next day i found out that loeshe lacy, a childhood friend and school mate of me was shot in her face and died instantly. i also found my friends and classmate maya nelson was in the

passenger seat. she suffered gunshot wound. and dow the intended target suffered a flesh wound to his arm. and i found out the very next day. when the whom shied detectives pikds me up apicked me up and s questioning me about the murder. i just gave up. i didn't want to fight no more. the reality of what was going on came crashing down on me. homicide detectives. when i was in cacarcerated, i w still an insecure kid, little chris. i didn't want no one to see i was scared because scared means that you are weak, and weak means that you can get taken advantage of. so what i did was reinforced the same gang beliefs, the same

attitude, the same image as i did as a kid in ghost town that got me to prison in the donald into the room and see the man who took his daughter's life. as a father i don't know how would i react. why would you want to do this? >> i'm not the 16-year-old kid i was 20 years ago. s16-year-old k i was 20 years ago. c16-year-oldd i was 20 years ago. ar16-year-ol kid i was 20 years ago. e16-year kid i was 20 years ago. d16-yeard kid i was 20 years ago. 16-year-old kid i was 20 years ago. [music] bonvoy. bonvoy. bonvoy. bonvoy. bonvoy.

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i wanted to introduce donald lacy. he's our empty for t see for th. thank you. >> being an artist i've always dealt with consciously related themes. >> i'm from oakland. i'm talking about old school oakland when oakland was the best city in the planet. when you went to the coliseum drive in to get your swirl, it was like motel 3 and a half if you couldn't afford motel 6. >> i had a great mom and dad. >> how many children have children, round of applause?

beautiful parents. [ applause ] >> see, i grew up back in the day where we all took care of each other. >> in those days, it really was a village involvement and everybody helping raise the young people, unlike it is today. >> i always say that to the youngsters, i mean, i wish i could show you the oakland i grew up in it. >> what's up soldier? always has his briefcase. this man is about his business. >> police say it was the conflict resolution mediator on her campus at the high school. i remember the teacher who was the adviser to the program told me, she said, mr. lacy, your daughter could negotiate any squabbles. sometimes i wonder what impact she would have made on the world. no more lives can be spilled on these streets. the highest price of life is the highest price and what we much value above everything. this touched an i flo nerve in

community. it was like a flash point. >> i wabtded to use the momentum to do something. >> reporter: in the aftermath the teenager's father turned it into a crusade. lacy has started a foundation, love life foundation. >> if you can rear them in the heart their mind will follow. >> i've seen other parents like me who have lost their kids and i've seen the animosity and those negative feelings do to people like me and i didn't want to be that person. the way i wanted to get back at those people was to make sure that something good happened. i realized that the meaning of her life was the meaning of her name. loeshe. love life. >> one, two, three, love life. love life!

87 years old, my mother, she left me and my two younger brothers on some apartment building stairs and said you wait right here, i'll be right back. i was eight years old. she left me hand my younger brothers on the apartment stairs until the next day. by age eight my mother developed a real bad habit of leaving me and my two younger brothers at random places with her complete strangers and said her classic i'll be right back and my mom didn't return for weeks. i remember a time where i was so hungry like starving, me and my two younger brothers just walking down the street, and i seen a jack-in-the-box bag on the ground. ants and stuff crawling over t and i remember it like it was

yesterday. and i was so hungry that i went into the bag and i ate the chondstuff out of the bag, the stuff, and i remember eating it first to see if it was okay before i gave it to my two younger brothers. i felt as though i wasn't worthy of love from anyone. >> i'm just so proud to know each and everyone of you guys, man. man, you guys are out of sight. you are smart. brilliant cats. >> a lot of the young men who i mentor and who i've met over these 20 years, most of them don't have father's. >> all the authority figures or adults in my life were somehow some way letting me down. at 10 or 11 years old i just said forget it. >> at this point in my life, my

gang was everything in the world to me. >> you got to always be aware of your friends. you know, sometimes your so-called friends can lead you down the wrong path, right. >> right. >> [ yelling ]. >> donald lacy and christopher, you know, we are getting close to the time where these two guys are going to be face-to-face. >> uh-huh. >> what do you expect? >> i expect there to be a lot of emotion. this is the crux of restorative justice. >> what is restorative justice? >> so restorative justice is an alternative to punitive justice. the idea is victim or survive or centered. say that we get into an altercation. say that i harm you. instead of saying the state

against corinna, the idea is what does van need for repair? what do you need in order to be restored? >> what's good about that? >> so what's good about that is that instead of the state determining what you need, you're telling us what you need. donald lacy came to the office of victim services, which is a department of the california department of corrections, they then come to us to me at in sight prison project and say we would like to initiate this process. then we start by meeting with the victim. and then we contact the responsible party or the offender. >> well, somebody might say this is just being soft on crime. now i'm supposed to hold hands and sing couple buy a. what do you say to people that feel that way? >> i would say this is it really hard work. this is people telling truth about the hardest worst day of their lives. again, the piece around restorative justice is centering

the voice of the victim or the survivor. and so often that voice is lost in the process. >> i was in oakland when this happened. i mean, this was front page news for weeks and weeks. >> yeah. >> donald lacy is a household name in oakland because of this murder. is christopher aware that this is one of the biggest cases in oakland ever? >> yeah. >> how does that hit him? >> it weighs on him. it weighs on him. >> i'm a very good judge of character. i can sit in the room with someone in five minutes and know what their about. i expect to know him from this meeting. that is one of my expectations. >> i would say that i'm not my

crime. everyone is entitled to their own perspective. but i'm not my crime. with verizon up, we won luke bryan tickets. it was amazing. so we are walking through the crowd. you know you have your badge and you're just, all you gotta do is wave it up. we're like, "okay these are pretty neat seats. i wouldn't mind sitting here." but he's like, "nope, we're still going." they took us all the way to the front. there's an area sealed off just for verizon up members. it made me feel like a celebrity. (vo) the network more people rely on gives you more. like vip concert tickets on us with the verizon up rewards program. and one of our best phones when you buy one. that's verizon.

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smiling as a kid or smiling, period, so seeing these pictures and seeing my smile is crazy. my beautiful fiance. my fiance jeanette this woman sat down and had a conversation with me. it was the questions that asked me which separated her from everybody else in this world. >> she asked me about my childhood. she asked me how did i feel. she made it safe for me. we made it safe for one another. and it's been three years. and she hasn't missed a beat. first of all, congratulations. >> thank you. >> it's hard to find love anywhere. people go on apps and can't find love. you found love in a prison. tell me about that. >> chris and i met through a mutual a kwar tans just an a friend, actually. it's hard for them to keep acquaintances on the outside of prison. so that was the main goal. actually, it wasn't to find

love. >> so you are talking to this man who you've never seen. >> uh-huh. >> do you know what he looks like? >> i saw a picture. >> so you did. >> i saw a good picture. >> saw a good picture. >> i saw a good picture. >> now i understand. he's a good lucking brother. >> he is. >> this whole situation i think you are going to have some viewers look at you and say how are you going to follow in love with a murderer and these type of things. what would you say to stb who is looking at you giving you the side eye about your choices? >> my family has given me the side eye. he caught me off-guard. like he would ask me how would you feel? he won't settle for i feel good okay. what does that mean? i need a feeling word i can connecticut wit connect with. so most people don't think on that level. >> that's right. most dudes. >> no. >> what do you think christopher

is going to be feel sng. >> feeling? >> i think chris will be feel ago lot of emotions. the last time he saw mr. lacy was in a courtroom when he was 16 years old. and one of my fears would be that the conversation goes in la way where chris has to feel defensive or shut down in any way. i hope that doesn't happen. >> whenever people make any kind of mistake, there sa tendency to get somewhat defense stiff. what are the kinds of things that can happen in a meeting like that that would shutd h hi down? >> that's a hard question. i mean, he knows he's part of the worst day of this man's life. >> this is our last time meeting before our dialogue on tuesday. so i just want to check in, christopher, and see how you are doing, how you're feeling. >> i'm feeling focused. and i look forward to the

process. >> is there any last minute kind of agreements you want to make with me as your support person? >> i appreciate the opportunity. >> i never thought there would be a day where me and donald lacy or any family members of loeshe lacy would be sitting down to talk. i really don't know what to expect. >> how are you feeling? >> anxious. >> yeah. i heard you had a show last week that went well. >> yes. >> so tell me about the anxiety. >> well, i mean, it's really all encompassing. the whole time we were in court, you know, i kept trying to make eye contact with him. and he wouldn't look at me for

i'm sure a lot of reasons. but it never -- it never happened, so i'm really anxious to see what that moment is going to be like when we look at each other for the first time. >> i feel like there is like this block. and i'm hopeful that it will be reshaped or transformed for both of you. >> this is -- this is so big for me. >> i know, donald. >> it's so big. >> i know. it's almost like now tuesday can't get here fast enough. i just want to go through it. >> i honestly do not know what's going to happen. see people who have suffered every day for 20 years. everybody is well intentioned.

everybody thinks they have done the work. you don't know if the work has been anything until you sit there and you look in the person's eyes. >> people say this and it drives me crazy, they say i hope you get closure. there is no closure, never. there is it always going to be that hole in my life. this is for the rest of my days. all my life i was afraid. all my life a found a way to hide behind something, gangs, relationships, whatever the case may be. >> with every fiber of my being, this is something i have to do, for better or worse, no matter what pain it may cause me, i have to do it. >> the worst thing about fear is what it does to you when you try to hide it.

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good morning, everyone. >> morning. >> donald, if you feel ready, we'd like to start with you. your intention for today. >> um, my intention was to be here to sit across from this man. other than that, there is a lot more i want to know about that night, you know. so that's my intention.

>> christopher, why don't you go next. >> my intentions for today is to hopefully establish a sincere connection throughout the course of this process. and to be fully transparent and full disclosure. that's it. >> thank you. so where would you like to begin? >> i can't help but to keep thinking about, even throughout the course of the years always heard her stories, always heard about her stories, about the work you are doing in the community, oakland, just everything, but i never hear

anything about miss wesley. that's the first thing that's come up for me is wonder how is she and her state, if that's okay. >> she doesn't agree with me being here. and when i first mentioned to her that this was in the works about a year ago, she got mad at me because she didn't understand why. so, yeah, she's been having a hard time. so i know that there was four people involved, right? >> yes. >> including yourself? >> yes, sir. >> since the night this happened, i just have one question. what were they so mad about? because they shot off, well, you included, 45, 50 rounds, or whatever it was. what was that about?

>> to be totally honest with you, like from the bottom of my heart, i can't even tell you why. i was a follower at that time. i can't even tell you what -- i can't even tell you what it was over, what it was offer. that's the truth, mr. lay sismt lacy. i was a follower so i couldn't tell you why. what i do know is when i was in a gang before that i knew my friend was christopher fletcher, he got shot by one of those guys, i don't know who, and from that it spiralled into the night of october 20th. but how it started why they were so mad, i just don't know. and i never even asked, to be honest with you. like i just do not have an

answer for that, and i wish that i did. >> donald, what do you need to say now?

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all with the sound of your voice. click, call or visit a store today. . is it okay if you ask you a question, donald? >> yeah. >> so, you asked christopher about what the beef was? >> yeah. >> and christopher was a follower and said that he doesn't know? >> yeah. >> so i'm wondering how is that to have had this question and how would it have been to receive an answer? would that have shifted something for you? would it have made something make more sense? >> i just always wondered why,

why did all this have to happen? okay. so for what happened afterwards, that night, so afterwards, i went to my then girlfriend's house out of my own curiosity. the next morning i went to the high school. when everybody whereas crying and everything and the first person i seen in the hallway, i asked her what happened. and she said, we said, lacy was killed last night and then i didn't say anything else. i 1yu67d open my bike and i ran. >> so how did you come to the awareness to confess? and how bad was your conscious bothering you? >> my conscious was bothering me

the moment that i was in the hallway and that girl told me what happened. when i did get locked up and go in the hall, i have to sit in it and i just disclosed what i did. >> i remember that day. >> you were just a young man? >> yes, sir. >> yes, but i never took responsibility for my behavior, my thoughts, my feelings or anything. i never did.

but today i take full responsibility for my behaviors. that's where i am today. i want to talk to the seven, eight-year-old, nine-year-old, ten-year-old chris' of the world so that no matter what's going on in the household, no matter their needs does not being met, that they never lose a moment like i did on that day it . >> it ain't where you start, it's where you finish. >> i forgive you, i do. >> it's taken me 20 years to come here to look you in your face and say them three words. because i'm not no judge and

jury over nobody. >> thank you. i can tell where your spirit is. i know you're sorry. do you remember any instances with her, when you were little like on the playground or anything? >> she always had a lot of people with her, like her friends and other girls and people they just, you know, she was just always ready and always smiling and she was always in the front of the pack always. always, that i can remember, always dancing, at lunchtime. you know the memories is distant memories, but, for me, this is the most safest i felt

reflecting on those memories prior to the day. i didn't feel i have the right to reflect that. >> well, i would encourage you to strike back. >> i can tell you a zillion stories about 16 years are short, it was like, it was quality, though. >> i say that to you man. that's what keeps me going is she taught me how to enjoy life. you know, she taught me.

>> i was blown away. i would go down lacy as a parent, there are so many parents like him in oakland, chicago, philadelphia and other places. i think he's showing an amazzing thing for people. so that's what's at stake here. when you have this many people in one country with so many religions, faith and ways of being together, bumped up against each other. how do we forget, acknowledge, understand and grow together. i think christopher has as much about to teach as anybody in the country

. historians like to divide americans into eras. revolutionary war era, roaring '20s era, the 1920s chicago bulls era. i grew up during an era. the vietnam war museum. every third movie was a vietnam war. because america wanted to figure out the best frame of war we had lost. the dominant culture goes with the respective that serves it best. for example, the earth superman is a hero, the dude that got in the neighborhood when