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you think should be a cnn hero go to cnn heroes.com. that's it for us. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. good evening. attorney general william barr, the nation's top law enforcement officer, the person you would hope would be fair, rational is fuelling the flames of conspiracy. he's doubling down without evidence on his comments that there were unauthorized spying on the trump campaign. this on the same week it was revealed barr tapped a connecticut prosecutor to investigate the origins of the russia probe, making it the third investigation into the investigators, something the president has pushed for over and over and over for years. now maybe the investigators will find something or maybe they won't. but in the meantime, mr. barr seems to be content with chumming the waters of conspiracy. here's some of what he told fox news. >> you also said back in april that you thought there was spying going on in the trump campaign. when do you think that started? >> well, i'm not going to speculate about when it started.

we're going to find out when it started. i have been trying to get answers to questions and i found a lot of the answers have been inadequate. i have also found that some of the explanations i have gotten don't hang together. so in a sense i have more questions today than i did when i first started. >> you're not going to speculate, but there was spying. what does that mean that he just said? it could mean everything. it could also mean nothing. i think that's p the point. the hole there is so big you can back up 1,000 conspiracy trucks and fill them up. here is more of what he said. >> i think people have to find out what the government was doing during that period. if we're worried about foreign influence for the very same reason, we should be worried about whether government officials abuse their power and put their thumb on the scale. >> abuse their power and put their thumb on the scale. in a separate interview "the wall street journal," barr appeared more certain. he said government power was used to spy on american citizens. of course spy is a loaded term

with nefarious connotations. something mr. barr knows very well. as does the president because he likes to use the word too. but according to the fbi counter intelligence would be the proper term focussed on russian attempts to influence the election and infiltrate the trump campaign. george papadopoulos had relayed to an australian diplomat a story about a russian offer to help the campaign by releasing thousands of hacked democratic emails, which was alarming to the fbi and should be to anyone because they were already aware of the russian efforts to influence the election. according to reporting, they sent an undercover investigator to find out what he knew. mr. barr doesn't mention any of that. he throws out the word spy and rolls on, which he's done now a few times since assuming the office of attorney general. there's something totally new he said today that really stands out. listen. >> i think if i had been falsely accused, i would be comfortable saying it was a witch hunt. >> so that's the head of the

department of justice saying he'd be comfortable calling a department of justice investigation into russian meddling a witch hunt, a phrase clearly designed to light up the pleasure centers in president trump's brain. >> the witch hunt continues. >> it is a total witch hunt. i have been saying it for a long time. >> it's a witch hunt. that's all it is. >> a witch hunt. >> witch hunt. >> it's just a terrible witch hunt. >> a witch hunt, witch hunt, so far this thing's been a total witch hunt and it doesn't implicate me in any way. >> joining me someone else who had a front row seat into the russia probe, former fbi general counsel jim baker. mr. baker thanks for being with us. so you have barr doubling down on the term spying backing up the president's use of the word witch hunt and saying that government officials may have put their thumb on the scale. you were at the fbi during the time period he's talking about. is any of that true? what do you think when you hear him say that? >> i have several reactions to it. first of all, my thumb was not on any scale one way or the

other with respect to politics. that we just weren't focused on the political outcomes of all the stuff going back to the hillary clinton investigation. that's not what we were doing or trying to accomplish. when i hear all this, yeah, i mean, at one level i'm concerned about it. but on another level you really -- i think we all have to focus exactly on what the attorney general is saying. and when you really start to listen to what he's saying, i think it's actually less alarming than some folks would think. and, you know, and this coming from somebody in the cross hairs of all these different investigations that you referenced. >> explain how it is less alarming. >> well, if you listen to what he says literally and take it seriously, then he's saying he has questions. and that's fine. the attorney general of the united states should have questions about what the fbi is doing and what the intelligence community is doing and the attorney general is responsible for conducting oversight of those entities. and i think that's great. >> and what about the witch hunt?

he's saying if i was wrongly accused, it would be okay to call it a witch hunt. >> well, i have read that statement, and he made, i think, a similar kind of statement in the past. again, i think if he's looking at it from the president's perspective, he's looking at it if the president thought that he was, you know, the subject of an investigation unfounded he would call it a witch hunt. again, i think if we look at, and i have every interest to look closely at what the attorney general is saying. i think if you look at it closely, i think it's -- to me, it is less alarming when i think about it. now, look, i have worked for the attorney general in the past. i can't say i know him well. but i have worked for him in the past. i have respect for him. i have taken a lot of grief because of that statement i just made and have repeated a few times. so i get that. but anyway, i'm less alarmed about it, i think, than other folks. >> i mean, this is why we wanted to have you on, to get your perspective. i want to play something else the attorney general said about the investigation here.

the thing that's interesting about this is that this was handled a very senior level of these departments. it wasn't handled in the ordinary way that investigations or counter intelligence activities are conducted. it was sort of an ad hoc small group. >> is that in line with your understanding of how the investigation was handled? there is, you can listen to that, and if you are inclined to have an ominous interpretation of it you can think, this small group at the top were trying to get president trump. >> yeah. i mean, so i was in that small group. and we kept it small out of an -- in an effort to make sure that we didn't have leaks from within the organization and that we would protect the political process and protect the integrity of the investigation. so it was intentional to keep it small, but i would submit it was

for lawful and appropriate reasons that we kept it small and didn't bring in sort of armies of people. >> but the idea that it wasn't the normal channels of a counter intelligence investigation. >> no, it wasn't normal. we were investigating a political -- people connected to a political campaign in the middle of a presidential election. so, no, there was nothing normal about that. so we were trying to figure out how to deal with a very abnormal situation in a way that was lawful and consistent with our prior practice and the way we would handle a counter intelligence investigation of a threatening foreign power, russia. >> is it normal for the attorney general of the united states to use the language the president uses? it seems there is a method or a reason that he would be using the exact same words that the president uses or buzz words, spying, witch hunt, collusion. i mean, does that strike you as odd? >> well, i have been reflecting on that. i mean, i guess -- i have

advised attorneys general in the past of both political parties. and one of the things i always stressed was the critical importance of the credibility of the attorney general of the united states to all americans. and, so, i guess i would just urge caution by everybody with respect to the language that we use, how it can be misinterpreted and how it can be spun, right? i mean, i think that's what i'm trying to say here, i guess. i would listen to the attorney general's words and ignore the spin that some people are trying to put on it in a negative way of how he thinks because it is not easy to discern how he thinks other than to say he wants more information. >> he's not an idiot and he knows the president who hired him uses the term witch hunt over and over again and he knows the president likes the term spying and likes people around him to believe what he believes.

you know, i understand, you know, obviously general barr picks his words carefully. he has thought this out. >> well, you know, anderson, i don't know. i haven't spoken to the attorney general. i can't say. if i were advising him, i would just advise him to be cautious about it and to think about how a significant percentage of the population is determining what he says because of its similarity, i guess, to what the president has been saying. >> the attorney general also said that there was, quote, some strange developments during the period of time during election day and the inauguration including that january 6th meeting between president trump and the intelligence chiefs. do you know what strange developments he's talking about? >> that i don't know. i mean, that meeting at trump tower was very challenging. the director of the fbi at the time, jim comey and the rest of the senior team was very concerned about it. we knew that there was a risk that what we were informing the president elect, president-elect trump about, the salacious

allegations in the dossier. we knew that was fraught with peril. we did not want to convey to him that this had any kind of analogy to fbi improper activities in the past in the hoover era in particular. so we were worried about that, and that was very stressful, frankly, to try to figure out how to deal with that. >> i want to play something else barr said. when he was asked about democrats suggesting he lied during his congressional testimony. >> well, i think it is a laughable charge, and i think it's largely being made to try to discredit me partly because they may be concerned about the outcome of a review of what happened during the election. >> is that what you think the accusations are about? he's talking about the review by the attorney in connecticut, i assume, not the inspector general investigation. >> i'm not really sure exactly how to understand that particular statement.

yeah, there are these multiple reviews going on. it is not quite clear to the public exactly who is doing what and why we have all these multiple reviews. i can speculate on that, but it is not clear to me exactly what he was talking about there. >> lastly, this morning the president tweeted my campaign for president was conclusively spied on, nothing like this has ever happened in american politics, a really bad situation. treason means long jail sentences, and this was treason. he's accusing members of the intelligence committee of treason. he's talking about jailing them. we have said this before. it does bear repeating. that is not a normal accusation from the president of the united states. >> no, not at all. and it's quite alarming. from my perspective, i have said it before, there was no treason or attempted coup. there was nothing illegal or unethical or immoral going on that i was aware of. has i become aware of such a thing i would have found a way to stop it, quite frankly. the use of that word is alarming.

i have written elsewhere that when the president -- if you look at article two, the president of the united states makes legal determinations that are binding on the executive branch. so for him to use this loaded language, i think, is not appropriate. but i think it will largely be ignored quite honestly. >> is it something the attorney general of the united states should ignore, or should he say something about it? >> i think with some of the president's statements along this line, you know, normally what the president says should be, again, binding on the executive branch. i think this, like other statements, will be ignored. and i don't know what that means for the country in terms of the rule of law. the president again is the head of the executive branch and what he says should go, but that doesn't seem to be the case. so i don't know where that leaves us, honestly. >> are you personally -- i mean, you were the general counsel. are you personally concerned that the president would like to see you and other top leadership in jail? >> of course i'm concerned, yes.

absolutely i'm concerned about it. i mean, i don't feel as though -- i mean, i know that nothing happened that falls into that category even remotely. and so, you know, i feel comfortable about that. but i don't think it's good for the country. i don't think it's good for the institutions of justice or the investigative arms of the government for him to be throwing around those kind of words. it is not productive or helpful to the country. what needs to happen now is we need to be brought together to deal with this threat from the russians coming again in 2020 and we need to move forward collectively and together. >> the sentence you just spoke is not a tweet i have ever heard from the president of the united states. jim baker, thank you very much. breaking news on michael flynn. the former white house national security adviser. if you haven't heard this story, it is amazing. cnn has learned he contacted a gop critic of robert mueller while he was allegedly cooperating with the special counsel and was encouraging this

critic to keep it going, to keep the pressure on, to keep talking out against the investigation. we'll tell you who that was and what he wrote to him. joe biden is said to kick his campaign into higher gear this weekend. with the field of democratic contenders now at 23, is that just too large? we'll talk it over with maggie and howard dean. who made a white house bid back in 2004. last year, the department of veteran's affairs partnered with t-mobile for business, to help care for veterans everywhere. with va video connect, powered by t-mobile, men and women who serve can speak to their doctors from virtually anywhere, and get the care they deserve, so they can return to their most important post. best friend, quarterback, or just dad. the va provides the care, t-mobile provides the coverage.

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pamela brown is part of the team that broke this story and joins me now. >> reporter: our team has learned that during the same time michael flynn was cooperating with robert mueller's investigators, he contacted at least one member of congress that we know of who had been publically critical of the probe. that's florida congressman matt gates. he sent a couple of direct messages to gates over twitter saying, quote, you stay on top of what you are doing. your leadership is so vital for our country right now. keep the pressure on! that message was sent april 2018. that's the same evening, anderson, that gates appeared on fox news sharply criticizing the mueller probe. congressman gates says he didn't respond to the messages from flynn and did not have a prior relationship with him, anderson. >> do we know -- i mean, at this point if gates was the only member of congress that flynn reached out to? >> reporter: we don't know that. it couldn't be learned if flynn reached out to other members of

the congress. we reached out to other members, particularly those that have been critical of mueller. but these messages raise questions about flynn's contact with politically powerful people following his guilty plea of the mueller probe when he was cooperating with investigators and they added this perception that has played out in flynn's courtroom proceeding that he has vacillated between helping the special counsel and stoking mueller's critics and the republican party. >> they also point out he's probably a moron. the guy is claiming to be cooperating and is sending direct messages over twitter to a member of congress. flynn is still awaiting sentencing. couldn't this complicate things for him? >> reporter: it certainly could complicate matters for flynn when his sentencing does happen. remember, in december 2018, that was his initial appearance before judge sullivan when he was expected to be sentenced. and during that proceeding, the judge questioned whether flynn had actually accepted responsibility for his crime. the judge expressed skepticism

and later in that hearing it was decided to postpone the sentencing. a new date has been set. so certainly, anderson, the judge could factor this in as a result of this new reporting. it is unknown if mueller's team was already privy to these messages. flynn's lawyer did not provide a comment. >> pamela brown, thanks so much, appreciate it. >> reporter: yep. joining me is jeffrey toobin and former fbi special agent. jeff, does this make michael flynn appear to be an idiot. >> yes. i think idiot is the operative word here because he was cooperating with mueller. >> supposedly. >> supposedly. he's obliged to tell the truth. now, it is not illegal for him to reach out to a congressman who was critical of mueller. but if you are trying to cooperate and prove yourself of value so that the prosecutor will tell the judge he's cooperating, please, you know, consider that.

>> and if you actually do regret what you did, it is odd you would reach out to congressman gates of all people. >> who remains one of the most strident critics of mueller. so it is just very strange. and a judge hearing about this may ask flynn, well, what else were you doing? who else were you in touch with? that's why the best advice lawyers often give their clients is just shut the hell up and don't create more problems for yourself than you already have. >> i mean, the judge was already kind of skeptical of flynn's, you know -- i don't know of his cooperation as much as his being regretful. >> yes. remember that when he originally went in for his sentencing hearing the judge was not happy, especially with his lawyers suggestions that the fbi had somehow entrapped him and accused him of treason, i believe, in the hearing and walked that back. and then said why don't you go

work with the government a little bit more? i suggest you do a little bit more and then come back because you may not want me to sentence you right now. so what's happened now is that he's basically cast into doubt, as you mentioned, the sincerity of his guilty plea, which i whether the judge does, i would assume mueller would also have some issues with. but i think this also explains trump's behavior. he has continued, you know, until now to continue to be very positive about flynn. and he did the same thing with manafort. we know that both of them were two-timing mueller in their own ways. manafort was lying to mueller when he was cooperating. i think it also casts a little bit of light on why trump was so comfortable with them and not with somebody like michael cohen. >> this message is also potentially part of an either subconscious or obvious campaign for a pardon because aligning himself with gates who is a very strong trump supporter, a harsh critic of mueller, as of course

is trump, a lot of what defense lawyers have done, whether it's manafort's lawyers, flynn's lawyers has been to try to ingraciate themselves with the president so that regardless of what mueller says, we a pardon could solve all problems. >> we talked to james baker who said, look, if you listen to the actual words he says, he's sort of looking at things from president trump's perspective. he's not saying necessarily that it is a witch hunt. he's saying, you know, if i was wrongly accused i would be understandable to call something a witch hunt. >> he shouldn't be using those words at all. they're simply unprofessional for someone who is the attorney general of the united states. if there is misconduct in the investigation, then that should be investigated and he shouldn't really comment on it until those findings are out. he is making a mischaracterization of what actually went on.

>> called spying or something. >> remember that president trump was actually never under investigation until he fired james comey. personally as either a counter intelligence investigation or obstruction of justice investigation. so this whole idea that he was falsely accused and therefore felt justified in acting out in this way, he was not only not accused of anything but he was reassured by james comey he was not being accused of anything. this is about what russia was doing to try to interfere in the election that was made clear to him. and so for barr to keep using this he was falsely accused, i would behave the same way, that's just a lie. and he keeps saying it. >> but they were clearly concerned. he must have been. if he wasn't concerned about himself or didn't need to be concerned about himself, he was probably concerned about somebody in his campaign. >> well, i found the interview astonishing. the attorney general is sean hannity.

and sean hannity is the attorney general now. to listen to him repeat every talking point, including that the president cooperated in an unprecedented way with this investigation when he didn't even answer oral questions from the investigation, it was just i found astonishing. >> and no questions about obstruction of justice. thank you very much. the field of democratic presidential candidates has reached nearly two dozen so far. i don't know who else is going to join with former vice president joe biden to date. does that make the road ahead for democrats easier having all these people or harder? that's next. era, our salads are uniquely crafted. with peak season berries, creamy avocado. and a dressing fit for a goddess. come taste what a salad should be. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be. [ chuckles ] so, what are some key takeaways from this commercial? did any of you hear the "bundle your home and auto" part? -i like that, just not when it comes out of her mouth. -yeah, as a mother, i wouldn't want my kids to see that.

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this weekend joe biden will shift into a new phase. for the democratic taillight nomination. he will speak at a major rally in philadelphia tomorrow where he will be looking to roll out policy proposals according to aids. telling cnn biden has a commanding lead in the field of 23 candidates. that's right. 23 candidates are vying for the nomination.

a field that democrats think is too large. because loyalties and money will spread across so many campaigns and could make it harder to take on president trump when the nomination is actually won by somebody. some perspective now from former vermont governor howard dean and maggie habermann. biden is maybe only kicking this into high gear, but the president has been treating him as the presumptive nominee or at least going after him very hard. >> yes, and to the concern of a lot of the president's aides. >> why? >> because the president is -- they all agree that biden is someone they have to worry about. they're looking at his poll lead and his numbers right now with black voters in the democratic primary which suggest that he could have some staying power. they know they have to deal with him. they shouldn't wait too long. they don't think the president should be the one doing it. it just elevates biden. it gives them the aura of a general election candidate very early as opposed to somebody who

will have the other democrats attacking him and it will help him raise money. it creates all sorts of pluses for biden. it creates negatives for the president. >> which i wonder was biden's strategy all along. from making that video -- we talked about this, that he was looking over the field of democratic candidates and aiming squarely at president trump. he clearly got the president's attention. >> no question. and biden's aides are delighted by all this and said they were trying to bait the president into engagement. and they have. i think it has pleased the president's aides he's aiming for a target these days they don't consider to be serious as a threat, which is the mayor of new york city. >> a fox news poll out this week. put the president head to head with the top democratic candidates. and biden is leading the president by 11 percentage point. certainly understandable the president would take notice of that. do you put much stock in, you know, poll numbers at this stage or poll numbers in general? >> no. and the other thing is the classic problem. there are many problems with the polls in this stage. but the classic one, this is

probably a national poll, and this is a 50 state race, so the polls that matter are the iowa, nevada, south carolina and new hampshire. it is much too early to figure this out. but biden is the real deal as is bernie sanders and elizabeth. and kamala harris. and buttigieg and beto. those are the ones that right now have got some name recognition and some umph behind them. we'll see if somebody emerges from the other 16 candidates. >> is 23 too many at this stage? does it diffuse things too much? >> no. because the dnc has done a good job trying to screen out people who really aren't working or aren't able to do the work. you have to have 1% in the polls, which is a pretty low bar and you have to have raised 65,000 contributors in 20 states money. so you have got to develop a base to be taken seriously. that's the way it should be.

to get into the debates this summer, that's the price of admission. so that's going to weed people out right then and there. >> do you think there is dangers having so many candidates at this stage? >> i think it is a lot. it's dangerous for people hoping to get attention and you are having trouble with it. when you have this many dand candidates only a handful will galvanize media attention and raise money. i was struck again not to go back to bill deblaz you, but i was struck his aides wouldn't say much money he raised. normally candidates like to put that out as a sign. >> he's the mayor of a major city. >> but, you know, i do think that once the debates begin, i think once we get to september, i think you are going to start seeing people dropping out of the race. most likely. i will say we did think that was going to happen in 2016 on the republican side. we thought that there was a game theory approach by all the republican candidates that the field will be whittled down by the time we get to january and that just didn't happen.

almost all of them except for rick perry stayed in. i'm not sure what this will look like going forward. >> i would argue that they did stay in and that the rnc was stupid and put them all on the debate panel. if you don't get the minimum requirement of the kinds of things the dnc is talking about, you are basically not going to be on the stage anymore, and i think that's appropriate. >> how many candidates are you talking about in that case, though. if you're assuming a bunch get winnowed out, how many do you think reasonably will be left? >> i think in the beginning there will be five or six that are out. if you can't raise $20 million by the time iowa starts you can't participate in this race. that's the price of admission in this race. there are a lot of people that can't do it. good candidates that can't do it. which really kills me. >> if five or six are winnowed out that gets to about 16. that was the republican field last time. that's all i'm saying. i think it stays pretty populated. >> no. i'm saying five or six by june. >> interesting. always great to have you. thank you very much. take a look at what do each of these people each have in common and who have they all worked for.

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so far the announcement from president trump of a new merit based set of ideas for immigration reform has been met with outright rejection or polite silence from democrats and republicans. something perhaps not too surprising to the people you're

about to meet. all of the people you are about to meet with undocumented. under the president's plan that prioritized highly educated and skilled immigrants. they probably wouldn't have been allowed into the country, which makes this next story interesting. she has been working on it for months. here it is. >> reporter: they arrived in vans. they arrived in suvs. >> hi, guys. >> reporter: most of them coworkers. some of them friends. there were 19 of them, each with a story to tell. they all took the elevator to our studio. three elevators, in fact. what were all these people doing here? all of them wanted to talk about their years of working for donald trump's golf clubs. they also all have another thing in common. raise your hand, how many of you are undocumented workers? and how many of you worked for the trump organization? raise your hand. all of you. all of them say they worked for mr. trump at his various golf courses in new york and new

jersey. some for more than a decade, despite being in the united states illegally from countries including mexico and guatemala. they brought with them their work uniforms and stacks of pay stubs from their former employer. jose worked as a waiter at trump's westchester golf club for ten years and often served donald trump. >> he used to come and i would serve him a diet coke out of the glass bottle into a plastic cup with ice. >> reporter: do you think he knew where you were from? >> yes. he knew i was from mexico. >> reporter: you told him. >> yes. >> reporter: do you think the president knew that you were undocumented? >> i think so. >> this was an open secret. >> reporter: this lawyer represents 38 undocumented workers, including this group, all of whom worked at trump properties. he says 11 of them were quietly fired in january from trump's westchester club after the club

did an audit in the midst of the government shutdown and the fight over the border wall. the rest of the workers quit due to the toxic environment. >> some of these employees were the most trusted employees of the trump family. some of my clients had the keys to, for example, eric trump's house in westchester, new york. >> nearly all of these 19 undocumented workers told us they have met donald trump. sandra diaz is from costa rica and worked as a housekeeper for four years at trump national golf club in new jersey. >> i worked really close to him in his house. always i with him with melania and ivanka. i stay inside the house with all the family. they know me. i have kids. i have to go in. i have to take care of all clothes, everything in this house.

i have to care. >> reporter: she believes donald trump knew she was here illegally because he has to sign off on everything at the club. >> how do you feel when you hear the president say that people like yourselves shouldn't be in the country? >> i feel really bad. >> reporter: all of the workers paid taxes but were not given benefits. morales also worked at trump's golf club as a housekeeper. for five years she made trump's bed and dusted off his golf trophies. >> did you ever tell the management at the golf course that you were undocumented or that you didn't have the right paperwork? she told us yes, she told her supervisors but was told legal papers didn't matter as long as she did the work. >> reporter: what documents did you show when you applied for the job? she says she didn't show any paperwork when she got the job. but in 2016 she was suddenly asked for legal documentation.

she says when she told her manager she didn't have it, she went to her cousin and her manager paid the $175 fee for her fake documents. >> there is another client i have that presented fake documents, and he was told they didn't look good enough. so they had him return three times to get fake documents that looked better. >> reporter: did donald trump know where you were from, and do you think he knew you were undocumented? she told me trump once asked her where she was from, and she told him guatemala. she says the majority of housekeepers were undocumented and that trump must have known. margarita cruise worked at his golf course in westchester new york for nine years. >> reporter: what do you think of when you hear donald trump talk about undocumented workers and how you shouldn't be allowed

in this country. yet, you worked at his golf club? margarita says trump is a hypocrite. that he says they are bad people, rapists and trafficicers. but they are honest, hard working people. they worked hard for him. >> he has been benefitting from undocumented labor for many years. it's sad he has been lying to the american people. >> had the trump organization had any response to what those workers told you? >> reporter: we reached out to the trump organization several times asking for a response to the fact that these allegations and also the fact that the trump organization has been employing these undocumented workers for years. we didn't get a response, but the trump organization has responded to "the new york times" which has also done reporting on this issue telling the times they have strict hiring practices and if an employee submits false documentation to circumvent the law, they will be fired immediately. that's certainly not what these workers told us.

and that statement to "the new york times" doesn't answer our question, which is did donald trump know these undocumented workers were working for him as he was publically railing against him. one other note. most of the workers in our story are all facing deportation because there is no plan for the illegal immigrants in this country. only one of them now has legal status, but she didn't get it until long after she left trump's golf club. >> randi kaye, seeing all those people together who worked in those resorts is fascinating. thank you very much, appreciate it. trade war with the united states, what the u.s. has to do before they'll sit down for talks next. for a limited time join t-mobile and get the awesome iphone 10r on us.

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across the country. signs it won't end any time soon. the u.s. must show sin soarty if it wants to have meaningful trade talks. after president trump put on a blacklist. that could make it extremely difficult to do business with companies in the u.s. a week after he slaps the tariffs on goods from china. the question is now what? our chief national security correspondent wrote a book on this. the shadow war. it appears china won't give into the president any time soon. what does this mean long term for the trade war? >> trump is demanding china change up end its economic motto. it's an unfair one. it involves stealing trade secrets from the u.s. national security secrets and putting restrictions on u.s. companies operating in china. that the u.s. doesn't put on chinese companies here. it's part of china's grand

strategy to compete with the u.s. and over take the u.s. and president trump approach has been to use the tariffs to force china to change. and china is resisting that. and by the way, i remind people china is authoritarian. it has domestic politics. and ping is the leader in the country if he's seen as backing down to u.s. president. and playing by their rules. he'll pay a price. he has political motivation here. to resist this kind of pressure from trump. >> you write about this in the book. how the trade war is really part of something bigger. >> it is. it's one front in a multi-front war. americans are aware of a couple of those. the trade war certainly. aware of election issues and so on. but china has deployed weapons in space.

that they have tested and deployed. a kidnapper satellite. that can pluck key u.s. satellites out of orbit if they decide to do so. they know the u.s. military and civilian institutions are so dependent. china up and created sovereign territory. in the south china sea. the manmade islands there. in territory claimed by many countries. the u.s. complained about it. china has done it. it succeeded in. china is stealing u.s. secrets every day. private sector and government secrets every day. with great success. part of a strategy called winning without fighting. they want to surpass the u.s. and take their position as a super-power. >> we're focussed on russia. because of russian meddling in the election. and yet, a lot of intelligence officials talk about china as being a greater threat.

in the cyber realm and the stealing of technology secrets. >> no question. that is in the book as well. russia has a similar strategy. election interference. but they str deployed weapons in space. attacking in the cyber sphere. which is the big e threat long term? short term russia. more aggressive long term china has more economic power. bigger population. grander ambition. a rising power. they see that as the primary threat in the shadow war. >> congratulations on the book. i have been reading it. it's fascinating. the shadow war. it's a essential reading. available now. up next the golf in chief takes a swing on the ridiculous. i couldn't have asked for better parents,

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time for the list. it's about golf. which is is not my specialty. i'm not sorry he knows what he did. here's the deal. president trump who is administration feels like caddy shack part three likes to playingful. it's like beer to brett kavanaugh. since taking office the president bashed president obama for playing too much golf made 187 visits to his resort. to play golf. i'm sure he spends time with his wife and son too. he plays with progolfers and

political mind from lindsey graham to limbaugh. by all the footage which is none he's a good golfer. we foupd an entry in the official page of the golf net work. which i read every day. it shows the president recently registered a score of 68 in april. apparently that's quite a feat for anyone. the last score posted on his page was in october. a 96. i don't know what this means but it means something. you don't have to be a genius to know the math. 96 to 68. sports illustrated reports this data base isn't secure. and the president page has been messed with before. that said the u.s. golf association told us so far they found no sign of malicious activity or russian activity. the matter is quote under review. we asked the