the world there are real people that get caught up and there are real consequences. people deserve more than just our bombs and our guns. they deserve our respect and our help, is and we also know this isn't theoretical because all over the world as i speak the united states is in some country repeating the same mistakes that we made with the secret war over and over again. christopher walked out the door and said, "bye, mom, i love you." >> did set him up to be robbed. i did do that. >> my son was murdered over a bag of heroin. >> i knew right then, this is what my life became. >> i've had my questions. >> how do i tell you your son had to die? >> i don't know if he's accountable yet. but i'm not going to give up.

>> i've spent half my life working with the criminal justice system, and i've seen lives devastated by violence. we like to imagine that after the verdict, the story is over, the victim and the offender are never meant to meet again. but for some, the only way to move forward is to come face to face with the person who shattered their lives. i'm here in alaska, and they've got so much just untouched, unspoiled, beauty. but they also have a really ugly problem up here with a drug epidemic. there's a real cycle of addiction, crime, incarceration,

release, still addicted, back to crime, back to jail. it's just an endless cycle, and 66% who get out of prison are returning back to prison within three years. so i'm up here to meet a woman named terria walters whose son, christopher, died in a drug-related incident, and she wants to talk with the guy responsible for her son's death. state of alaska doesn't actually have a formal victim/offender dialogue program, so going to be the first ever and it's kind of a big deal that you've got them to let her do it. >> hi. >> good to meet you finally. >> nice to meet you, too. >> i am glad to finally get a chance to sit down and talk with you. >> yes. >> i -- i'd love to know more about your son. i'd love to hear more about christopher. what kind of little kid was christopher?

>> funny. and he would do anything that he possibly could to make me laugh and aggravate me, but it would be a funny aggravation, like, i'd tell him, stop doing that. he'd just make fun of me while i'm trying to be serious. chris. people called him the gentle giant and was always that guy that people could go to to talk about their problems, and he would listen and comfort them. >> your pants. >> he was voted prom king. school was really important to christopher. he wanted to make sure that he -- his grades were good because he wanted to go to college. he's the first to graduate high school in my whole family. my son has helped me become the person that i am today. i grew up in a home that was extremely chaotic.

definitely not love in the home. i'm in a space where i am today because of him. >> you managed to have this amazing kid. >> yes. >> what happened? >> christopher wanted to join the navy straight out of high school, but he ended up being denied because of his diabetes, which created some depression in him, which led to his downward spiral. he was not in his right mind and he was unpredictable, and he started using heroin. so i confronted him and then we'd fight and argue and i'd beg and plead and say, please, just stop, you know, you're hurting me and you know where this could end up, and, of course, i tried my best to help him.

on june 22nd, 2015, he was going to go to a job and he said, "bye, mom, i love you." he got in his car and he left. i worked nights, and i got home after 11:00 and was looking for my son's car because generally i'll see it in the driveway, and it wasn't there. the next morning, he still wasn't there, so the whole day i texted him and tried calling and nothing. he never responded. i went to the palmer police department and reported my son missing and i did tell them he is an addict, and about 4:00 in the morning, my phone started vibrating. it was an alaska state trooper outside my door, and he said, well, i just want to let you know that we did find christopher's car. and my heart sank.

it was like slow motion. "did you find christopher?" "yes." "is he deceased?" "yes." i was just beside myself. i couldn't wrap my head around that my son was dead and that i am the parent of a murdered child, so my whole son's life, everything since he was a child on up was just running through my mind to the point of losing him and then i would never see him again. >> as you're learning more about how things actually happen, i mean, who did it, what happened, how did he wind up in that situation?

>> i found out that joshua beebe was the person that killed my son. ♪ i didn't even know who joshua beebe was. my son never mentioned him. what was told to me by the state trooper was that my son pulled up to the fireworks stand. he met josh to sell him some heroin. it's assumed that my son turned around and walked away from josh, and that's when josh shot my son in the back of the head. handle broke on this. my son's body was dragged, and he was stuffed in the back seat. while people were telling me and

asking me why do you want to keep his car or telling me to clean it out, i -- it's just my grieving process. i have thoughts in my mind of what happened to him. i mean, i relive it in my head. he was alone. he was stuffed in the back seat of his car and he bled to death in the back seat of his own car. did he feel alone? was he scared? and if he knew he was dying and remembered me. and if he's thinking to himself, my mom was right, or i should have listened to my mom, or my mom is going to be devastated. ♪ i believe that josh intended to rob my son. i was told that five days prior

to that that he did the same thing to somebody else but they ended up living. he was officially arraigned august 17th, 2015, for second-degree murder and robbery, and that was on my son's birthday. he would have been 24. >> this is the first victim/offender dialogue ever in alaska for adults behind bars. why was this so important for you to push forward and be the first one to do this? >> i've been really aggressive with this issue. i basically have gone in and said, look, i've experienced horrible tragedy in my life. an individual caused that tragedy. now i want to have this conversation because there's things i wanted to say to him that i didn't get to say. when i went to the sentencing, he was not fully accountable. he said, "miss walters, i'm really sorry for what happened to your son.

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he's the guy who's responsible for the death of christopher. ♪ joshua's been in and out of prison his whole life, and right now he's serving a 60-year sentence. and i'm here to know why he would even agree to meet with terria, given the fact it's not going to get him any shorter sentences. he's going to be there for a long time, regardless. ♪ what's up, man? >> how you doing, sir? >> good to meet you. >> good to meet you, sir. >> thanks for making time for me. appreciate it. tell me about growing up. i bet your dad didn't have any face tattoos. >> no. no. >> tell me about your dad. >> my dad is a good man.

he's an entrepreneur. he gave us a lot of opportunities. had a great upbringing. i didn't have no complaints at all. i was born in presque isle, maine. when we went to wisconsin, i was about 5 or 6. and my dad had a couple dairy farms. we lived in an amish community. we drove horse and buggy. gave us a chance to live off the land. i drove horses. plowed with them. it was different, but it was cool. when my father asked us to come to alaska, we started building houses. i was about 18 years old. i got married because i had a son. it was a good environment. we lived well. >> i'm trying to figure out is how did you even get in this situation? because you weren't raised in too much of a negative environment. >> no. no. i wasn't. you know, i bought a car from my father. a fast car. it wasn't supposed to be on the street. i was driving basically a drags

car on the road. so i eluded police and when i did that, i came to jail. that was my first experience in jail. i got a felony eluding. i got three years for it. >> your initial underlying crime was driving away from the cops. >> yeah. >> just driving fast. >> yeah. just driving fast. that's all i was doing. >> then you wind up getting sent here, so then what happened? >> how's it going? >> it's going right now. going perfectly. when you come into an environment like this, it's flight-or-fight mode. you're not going to run from anybody. you can't. that will make you a victim. so you do what you have to do. you adapt to your environment. and that's where my life started going downhill. when i got out of spring creek in 2008, after the eluding, right when i got out, i caught a theft charge. stolen credit cards. got out, 2013. >> going to go hit the workout

or what? what are we doing? >> no. i came back to jail 2013 and didn't get out until 2015. just a revolving door really. my life was in a big spiral downhill. i knew it. >> how did you meet christopher? >> first time we met, shook hands, kind of talked was in 2015 when i got out. yeah, me and chris were in the same circle so he came to my place a couple times and we hung out and got high. we did heroin. we sold to each other here and there, when we needed, one of us was out, we'd help each other out. >> help me understand what happened with christopher, how he wound up dead, how you ended up here. >> we said we'd meet that day, so i called chris that morning and said, hey, i'm here, and we met. prior to meeting him, you know,

some friends of mine told me that they wanted to meet him, too, but they weren't going there to buy anything. yeah, i did set him up to be robbed. i did do that. i remember being in wasilla. i seen that poster with chris' faces on it, what happened to him. i just, i remember turning white and i knew right then, this is -- this is what my life became, you know? one day i woke up to about 30 cops in my face with guns and went to jail. it's like a flash bang going off where you're stuck in a motion, everything is slow motion and you see your life passing by you and your family leaving you and all you see is a cell door in front of you, you know, and you wake up and you're like, is this real, tell me i'm dreaming, you know? >> so when you say you set him

up to be robbed -- >> uh-huh. all i know is that i told somebody where he'd be. this is the outcome of it. i was only in the area for less than nine minutes. then tragedy happens and you're stuck with it. you can't take it back. i'm not going to do anything like that. sorry for what happened. sorry that it happened. >> sometimes people hear it differently, say i'm sorry for what happened, i'm sorry for what i did. is that a difference in your mind? >> no. i think it's the same thing. i'm sorry for the loss of her son, the loss of his life. when she asks me why, i don't know, how do i explain that, you know what i mean? how do i tell you your son had to die? why? i don't know. acy?

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going to happen tomorrow. how i've chosen to cope with my son's death is through advocacy for individuals that have addiction issues. when was your last use? >> 7:00 a.m. >> okay. and what did you use? >> heroin. >> heroin. outside my regular job to pay for my bills, that's what i do for work. okay. so this is what's going to go on your ear. like that. this does not take away cravings, so be accountable, delete all your contacts. >> you have no idea how much this means to me. >> yeah, i do, because i wish this was around whenever i needed to get clean and sober. i grew up in a home that was full of addiction, abuse, chaos, dysfunction, and so i became a product of that environment and i ended up not knowing anything different.

when i was 4, i remember smoking marijuana for the first time. i was even being paid to baby sit by being given joints, and i'm talking, like, 7, 8 years old. i ended up going into foster care and i kept running away. i didn't want to stay in placement. and then i got involved with meth. i was 18 when christopher was born. i didn't really know how to be a mother because i had been raised in such a chaotic environment and raised by the state that i just kind of winged it. ♪ there was times that my son would confront me on my drug use. he would cry. he would beg me. he would ask me to stop. and even though in my heart i

wanted to stop, i didn't -- my will was weak. in 2004, i learned how to cook meth, and my son was 13 at the time, and i did allow him to use drugs. he got involved with marijuana and drinking and eventually smoking meth, too. how could a mother do drugs with her son? i was ashamed of myself. and my son was in the situation that he was in, and i was in the situation that i was in because of my choices.

within eight months, i was arrested for manufacturing. ♪ and i remember specifically in one conversation where he was, like, i'm glad you're in jail because i'm hoping that you'll change your life and get your life together. and i never forgot him saying that to me. and so because of that, i've been sober for 13 1/2 years. even though i finally got sober and i changed my life and i became the mother that i was supposed to be for him, it didn't save him from relapses and continuing to do the things that i had taught him. and that -- that was devastating

to me. we can't expect somebody to get their life together when -- when we're not teaching them how to. people in long-term recovery with lived experience can help other individuals in the same situation. >> we had a couple guys come back in, man, and i know that they violated because of these drugs, you know what i'm saying? and it's like they get a habit when they come here, they get out, the habit is worse, and it brings them right back. >> that first drug that i've done was heroin. it was here at spring creek correctional center. you know, after about a year off and on doing it, i got out. i was like, okay, well, enough of that. so i started working again. just out of the blue one day, i

don't know, i just had a craving. i lost my job and lost everything, really. >> had you not gone to prison, do you think you would have wound up being addicted to something, anyway, at some point in your life? >> honestly, no. before i came to prison, i didn't even know what heroin was. >> we're going to go into the hobby shop and wander around for a little bit. >> what's the point of hobby shop? >> you know, try and give them some skills that maybe they can take outside of here and find some employment. >> i want to talk to you about what kind of prison we're in right now. >> we're in the state of alaska's only maximum custody prison. this is where the state of alaska sends the worst of the worst. >> you don't do things the way most wardens do things. why is that? >> i started recognizing early on that policies and procedures we're following are built on people's perceptions from 30 and 40 years ago. they're not working. we need to build a better

person. they came here broken. they shouldn't leave here broken. this is the department of corrections. it's not warehousing. all of this that you see in here was bought and paid for by them. for an offender to get in here making 40 or 50 cents an hour, for him to be able to save up to buy the tools might take years. this is a $500 piece of machinery here. this engraver. he's turning out crafts like this. that's sterling silver. it's too bad he didn't know how to do that before he came to prison. >> yeah. >> because he probably wouldn't be here. a crime brought you here, but what you do here matters because that's what's going to keep you out of here. i try to remember that every day when i come to work. it isn't what they did. it's what i'm going to do with them now. >> the recidivism rate in alaska is like 66%. can you guarantee what you're doing will make that lower? >> we're sending people back to environments that were shattered before they came to prison. they haven't gotten any better

because they left, and is what i'm doing enforcing public safety, is this making a better person to return to the public, which enforces public safety? there's a lot of networking going on between me and other superintendents around the state about what's working for them, what might work for me. you start having conversations about victim/offender dialogues. >> so you've known joshua for a while. >> so i knew him when he first came here. he was a young kid that liked to raise hell in jail. i think from the beginning, i think he was just doomed to go down this path that wasn't going to lead anywhere positive. and it's unfortunate that this was the answer that the state had for, you know, his early incarceration. >> why would you bet on him to be the first person to do a victim/offender dialogue in the state of alaska? >> what i have to trust is terria's opinion. she said, i want to do this, and i think he's the right person.

>> how long have you known terria? >> me and terria have been bumping into each other for a couple of years. she has a powerful voice in the addiction and re-entry community. and if somebody's lived a hard story, and they've turned that around, that's the kind of people i need coming in here to support what i'm doing. >> what do you hope comes after this first dialogue? >> what i hope is this helps start a conversation that hasn't taken place, where victims have a voice. it isn't just i was a victim of a crime and i'm a victim of crime for the rest of my life and there's nothing i can do about it other than be a victim. i had a voice in this and was able to help right the wrong. this the start of something i think way bigger than just the die loss, and we need to get the first one behind us. >> for the last 15 years, i've been looking myself in the mirror knowing that i haven't yet said i'm sorry to my victim's family. i ruined their lives, but i

need -- i need them to hear that, you know, there is pain in my heart. >> you know, with that i wanted to ask josh about his victim/offender dialogue project and what his thoughts are on it and his feelings going into it. >> i think about it and i still can't fathom it. i can't come to the realization that this is really happening. but i'm here, and i'm doing this. ♪ ♪

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thanks for having me here. appreciate you. >> thanks for coming. >> how do you feel about the fact this is the first victim/offender dialogue ever to happen with adults locked up in alaska? >> it's great. it's great that they're doing this. and it shows that the department of corrections here is pretty open and willing to do something new and more effective. >> when it goes really well, what happens? >> there's healing, you know, people are lighter. the thing with crime is it creates a lot of shame, and the restorative justice, when people sit together and they can share humanity alleviates that shame. you know, it's a way of addressing it. >> what about joshua? i mean, he's very early in his journey.

do you feel like he's ready for something like this? >> well, i come from the perspective that each of us are the best expert of our own life. he's 33 years old, and he's pretty much said to me he was sick and tired of being sick and tired. you know, doing drugs. >> is he clean and sober? i mean, has he relapsed? what's your understanding? >> my understanding is that he has had relapses in prison, but i think he is clean, and that's really important to terria that he be sober or she didn't want to do it, and i agree. >> what do you think terria wants to communicate to joshua? >> she has hope that he can rehabilitate. i think she believes if she can somehow divert him from the path he was on, you know, in some way she's making some meaning out of the logs of her son.

>> you're not going to be there by yourself, right? >> no. >> who's going to be with you? >> the superintendent at spring creek. >> what -- >> yeah. >> the warden? >> yeah. >> the warden is the warden. nobody trusts and likes the warden, by definition. what do you -- what's present here? >> i don't want to be the warden. i don't want to be the warden. i want to be the mayor of a community. and communities fix their own problems. >> obviously it's working because this is probably one of the most important moments of joshua's life, and he wants you to be sitting right next to him. that's pretty extraordinary. >> yeah, it's humbling, for sure. >> it's going to be nerve-racking, but -- >> get in there and let her have hers because like you said originally, this is all about her. >> it is. it's all about her. >> i'm there for you. >> i appreciate that. >> do what you got to do. >> yes, sir. >> how are you feeling about the whole thing? >> i'm a little nervous, but i

think that if i focus too much on the process that it will give me anxiety. but you being there is going to help, too. >> what do you think christopher would say to joshua if he had a chance to right now? >> to know that there's a greater purpose for his life than what he has -- >> yeah. >> -- done so far. he would be happy with me. >> uh-huh. yeah. >> i'm not drowning myself in what i normally would have done 15 years ago. >> yeah. >> and that's to self-medicate because i didn't want to feel. as somebody that's wanted justice, what does justice look like for me? addiction's progressive. and he's going to get out, and if he doesn't get ahold of it

now, what's it going to look like in 23 years? >> what's the worst thing that could happen in this meeting? >> that he isn't accountable and continues to deny what he's done. >> yeah, i think that terria definitely has some anger toward me. i mean, her son's gone and i'm here. she's probably thinking, why couldn't it have been you and not my son? scary to go through that door, but i'm going to do it, and whatever happens happens. >> i have a lot of emotions going through me when i think about this. ♪ but i'm fearful of how it's going to play out. there's nothing more important

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just breathe. >> oh, dear lord.

♪ >> the only rule we have is that we speak one at a time and no one interrupts. >> sounds good. >> okay. >> so i want to read something. when i was in prison, my son made this card, but i did not get this card until after he died. i went through his things and found it. he never sent it to me. this card shows my son's heart and the type of person that he was. "dear mom, i would just like to let you know how much of a great and wonderful mom you are. even though we have been through some rough and depressing times. i am glad you have raised me the way you have. the bad times is what made me strong and smart and wide-eyed

and able to see things certain ways other people can't see, and i thank you for that. you may have not been the most best mom in the world, but there is no such thing because nobody is better than anybody else because it's what's inside that counts, not your lifestyle. and people like me and you realize it all because it's the low-life people that live it because it's easier to live a life with money than it is sleeping in a car with no family or money. anyways, mom, my love for you is forever and when that day comes for you to be with god, i will not ever forget about you. i thank you for everything and really forgive you for everything that you have done. i love you, mom. love, chris." ♪ how did you know my son? >> the drug life. buying/selling. stuff like that.

he picked me up with a friend of mine from prison in 2015. >> oh, so he picked you up from prison? >> uh-huh. took me shopping. then i actually drove him home. >> so you didn't, like, know him, like, super well? >> yeah, we hung out, like, two or three times. >> do you want to talk about how you've been affected? >> i mean, i didn't come from a very good home. christopher was the only thing that mattered to me. i didn't have anybody love me unconditionally as much as my son did. and when he died, all that was gne. i was in shock. although you've -- you've gotten the sentence that you've gotten for what you've done, i have to serve a life sentence because my life feels like it's in slow motion. everything that i have gone

through with my son, it's like every month has something and i remember it and so my life is reminded of my son, but he's not here anymore. i have faith, and i believe that that's what's gotten me through this far. could never do this on my own. this happened to me 15 years ago. while i was in my addiction, i probably would have killed myself doing drugs. ♪ >> when i first got sentenced, i just remember telling myself, [ bleep ], do a shot of heroin and call it a day, if you can be gone and have to go through that, maybe i should too, you know? and when i got sentenced, it was devastating, but i accepted it because it's the right thing and i deserve that. he didn't and you don't. i know you have to do the same

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nothing could bring back christopher but is there anything that he could do to try to make amends at all for you? >> i'm sorry for what happened. >> it's not an excuse but that's how our brain gets hijacked and i'm angry at what you have done but i feel empathy for you because i think to myself how your addiction has taken you that far. i took my addiction pretty far but i changed that.

i'm 13.5 years clean and i have support that keeps me going. my son is one of them. he may not be here but he wouldn't want me to go backward and knowing my son he would want the same thing for you. if anything could come out of this life, i would hope that you really understand your worth as a person and embrace rehabilitation and how you can make amends to me is change your life. sometimes out of the blue you think i'll quit. i'll quit and then you look at yourself in the mirror and you say i'm tired. my soul is tired.

>> paralyzed? >> are you willing to accept that help from me? >> yeah, i am. >> and that direction? >> yes. >> i want you to stay sober. >> do you use? >> every day. >> so what has kept you from doing that? >> my son. i don't want him getting high. he's 13 now. he'll be 14 this year. i don't want him to look up to me and think that this is okay because it's not. >> when i finally made a decision to change, my son was 13 going on 14. so you have that opportunity to be a leader for your son. he can know you as you changed yourself. >> i want to do that. absolutely. i want to change my lifestyle and what i'm used to.

it's not easy but i don't care because he deserves it and you deserve it. i'm not asking you to forgive me but i'm asking you to know that i am sorry. i don't know how i can find the words to prove that to you i'm sorry for what happened. >> i forgave you a long time ago because my son would have wanted me to do that. i am proud of you for walking through that door and taking this opportunity. it helps me heal to another level and i feel like i have a weight that has been on me for awhile lifted. >> yeah. same. >> there's a lot of pressure on

you now. >> i know. >> josh took a lot of courage to walk in that door. took a lot of courage to walk in that door sober and i respect that. i'm here for you and i'm here to knock you around too when you reach bottom. we're going to do this. time will tell. time will tell. but i think we're starting on a good foot here. >> really, this is going to help. it helps me want to do it even that much more sitting here listening to you. i don't know what other words i can find to thank all of you. thank you guys. >> great. >> it's hard to imagine a mom of a murdered child being more

selfless. she wants to be a mentor. that's unbelievable. you want details. why did you do this to my kid? there was none of that. yet they still got to this beautiful place. >> i feel like 100% new. i'm just happy. >> he began to see a path way he didn't walk in there with. >> >> did he grasp the magnitude? >> this is one small step toward at least with him maybe breaking that cycle of addiction, arrest rearrest that whole thing. that's what it's all about. >> we got a chance to see the witness the very first dialogue

like this in alaska. there could be many, more as a resu result. >>