world ♪ ♪ >> it seems television has become a kind of electronic confessional. >> it is juicy, newsy, exciting stuff. >> what did we do here? why did we start this business? >> any tool for expression will bring out both the best and the worst in us. television has been that. >> they don't pay me enough to deal with animals like this. >> why don't you get off my back? >> people used to say i was there. now people say i watched it on

television. ♪ ♪ slowly but surely, the 1970s are disappearing. the 1980s will be upon us. and what a decade it is coming up.

happy new year! >> as we began the '80s in the television world, the landscape was on any given evening, 9 out of 10 people watching only one of three networks. >> more than 30 million people are addicted to it. social critics are mystified by its success. what is it? it's television's primetime prairie pot boilers "dallas." >> a move like that will destroy all of ewing oil and ruin our family name. >> a thought like that never crossed my mind. >> brother or no brother, whatever it takes, i'll stop you from destroying ewing oil. >> "dallas" established new ground in a weekly hour-long show. it literally captivated america for 13 years. >> "dallas" is a television show which is rooted in the 1970s and one of the crazy things that emerges is this character j.r. ewing as a pop phenomenon. >> tell me, j.r., which slut are you going to stay with tonight. >> what difference does it make? it's got to be more interesting than the slut i'm looking at right now.

>> such a delicious villain. everyone was completely enamored by this character. >> at this point, so many people were watching television that you could do something so unexpected that it would become news overnight. >> who's there? [ gunshots ] >> the national obsession in 1980 around who shot j.r. it's hard to imagine how obsessed we all were with that question. but we were. >> who shot j.r. is about as ideal a cliffhanger as you possibly could get. >> who did shoot j.r.? we may never get the answer to that question. the people who produce the program are going to keep us in suspense as long as they possibly can. >> who shot j.r. and then we broke for the summer. then the actors went on strike. it delayed the resolution, and it just started to percolate

through the world. >> i remember going on vacation to england that summer and that's all that people were talking about there. >> we know you don't die. you couldn't die. >> we don't know that's. >> how could you die? you couldn't come back next season. >> i couldn't come back but the show could still go on. >> but you wouldn't. what is that show without j.r.? >> that's what i figure. >> i guess if you don't know by now who shot j.r., you probably do not care. last night some 82 million americans did. and they watched the much touted "dallas" episode." it could become the most watched television show ever. >> who shot j.r. is a reflect ion of old fashioned television. it gathers everybody around the electric fireplace which is now the television set. >> one special american television program. critics said it transcends in popularity ever other american statement about america. it trns skended every statement about war.

something happened today to hospital 4077 that will touch millions of americans. it was the kind of event that would grab the world's breath. the end of the korean war. the television version "m.a.s.h." >> it's been an honor and privilege to have worked with you. i'm very, very proud to have known you. >> there were those landmark times when shows that had been watched through the '70s and into the '80s, like "m.a.s.h." had its final episode. and we were all sad to see them go. >> i'll miss you. >> i'll miss you. a lot. >> all over the country, armies of fans crowded around television sets to watch the final episode and to bid "m.a.s.h." farewell. >> the finale of m.a.s.h. was unprecedented. 123 million people watched one television program at the same time. >> i really should be allowed to go home. there's nothing wrong with me.

>> when we ended the show, we got telegrams of congratulations from henry kissinger and ronald reagan. the size of the response and the emotional nature of the response that we were getting was difficult for us to understand. >> who shot j.r. and the last episode of "m.a.s.h." are the last call for the pre-cable world of television. it's like they are the last time that that huge audience will all turn up for one event. >> tv is growing up with cable. tv is growing up with content. tv is growing up with different genres. the fundamental thing that cable did, that the vcr did, or the remote control did is it gave consumers more choice. everything was about to change. (paul) great. another wireless ad. so many of them are full of this complicated, tricky language about their network and offers and blah blah blah.

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>> thomas magnum? >> mary hammond? >> the private investigator? >> oh, you're probably wondering about the goat. just let me drop off my friend and then we'll talk. >> when we entered the '80s a lot of one-hour dramas that were light hearted like "magnum p.i." were very popular. after "m.a.s.h." went off the air the next season there wasn't a single sitcom in the top ten. first time that had ever happened in tv history. the prevailing feeling was that the sitcom was dead. >> the nbs programming chief says reports of the sitcom's death were greatly exaggerated. >> time and time again if you study television history just when someone is counting a forum out that is exactly the form of programming that leads to the next big hit.

>> 1984 "the cosby show" comes on. bill cosby is not new to tv but "the cosby show" is different. stands apart from everything else he's done. >> i wanted my eggs scrambled. >> coming up. >> they talked about parenting. before that, the kid were cool and the parents were idiots. "cosby" says the parents are in charge and that was something new. >> instead of acting disappointed because i'm not like you, maybe you can just accept who i am and love me anyway because i'm your son. >> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life! >> it helps the casting a lot in television. the kids were just great. >> if you were the last person on this earth, i still wouldn't tell you. >> you have to tell me what you did. just tell me what's they're going to do to you. >> unlike every other show on tv, it's showing an upper middle class black family.

this wasn't "all in the family." they weren't tackling deep issues but that was okay. the mere fact they existed was a deep issue. >> the decade was waiting for something real. in other words, unless it's real, it doesn't seem like it moves anybody. if someone is feeling something, you get to the heart and the mind. if you can hit the hearts and minds, you've got yourself a hit. >> how was school? >> school? dear, i brought home two children that may or may not be ours. >> "the cosby show" brought this tremendous audience to nbc. and that was a bridge to us. our ratings went way up. ♪ sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name ♪ >> even the theme song to "cheers" puts you in a good mood. >> hello, everybody. >> what's shaking, norm?

>> all four cheeks and a couple of chins. >> by the end of the "cheers" pilot, not only did you know who everybody was, but you wanted to come back and see what was going to happen. it's like all you have to do is watch it once. you're going to love these people. these are universal characters, and the humor worked on so many levels. >> i was up until 2:00 in the morning finishing off kierkegaard. >> i hope he thanked you for it. >> you have to create a community that people are identifying with. and "cheers" gives you that community. >> i've always wanted to skydive. i've just never had the guts. >> what's did it feel like? >> i imagine a lot like sex. but i have plenty of sex. and plenty of this, too. why don't you just get off my back, too. >> in the first episode, there was a rather passionate annoyance. something is going on here.

a really intelligent woman would see your line of bs a mile away. >> i never met an intelligent woman that i would want to date. >> on behalf of the intelligent women around the world, may i just say, phew. >> you saw what ted and shelly had together. we said, oh, no. we've got to do this relationship. >> ted and i understood what they were writing right away. >> if you'll admit that you are carrying a little torch for me, i'll admit that i'm carrying a little one for you. >> oh, i am carrying a little torch for you. >> well, i'm not carrying one for you. >> diane knew how to tease sam. sam knew how to tease diane, and i guess we know how to tease the audience. >> incredible chemistry between the two of them ignited the show. that's what's drove the show for the first five years. >> what's the matter? >> i'm devastated.

i need something brutal to blast me into sweet oblivion. make it a mimosa. >> we had the luck to be able to rotate cast and every time we put somebody in, they were explosions. >> there was something very special about that setting, those characters that i never got tired of writing that show. >> sophisticated surveys, telephonic samplings, test audiences. all of those help to separate winners from losers and make midcourse corrections. you can't cut all comedies from the same cookie cutters. all you can hope is every night turns out like thursday. >> yo, angela! >> next. >> how rude. >> quick, i'll give him that.

>> all television and, oh, maybe sitcoms are alive again. and that's all that it took. it took one success. >> a few years from now, something new may tempt the people that pick what we see. it is a very safe guess that whatever gets hot for a season or two those who create good television comedy will be laughing all the way to the bank. ♪ ♪ ♪ take me to your best friend's house ♪ ♪ going around this roundabout ♪

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>> all right. that's it. let's roll. hey, let's be careful out there. >> dispatch, we have a 911. armed robbery in progress. >> when quality does emerge on television the phrase "too good for tv" is often heard. one recent network offering that seems to deserve that phrase is "hill street blues." >> hill street is one of the changing points of the entire industry and the history of tv. >> we had all watched a documentary about cops and we were very enamored. >> the minute you looked at it, it looked different. it had a mood to it. you could almost smell the stale

coffee. >> we didn't want to do a standard cop show where you got your crime and you got your two cops and you catch the bad guy and you sweat him and he confesses. and that's it. cops have personal lives that impact their behavior in profound ways. >> well, what about it? he here? >> don't get excited. we're working on it. >> how is this for logic? if he's not here and he's not elsewhere he is lost. >> he's not lost. >> never in my entire life have i listened to so much confidence covered up by so much unmitigated crap. find my client, or i swear i'll have you up on charges. >> there would be these ongoing arcs for these characters that would play out over five, six episodes, sometimes an entire season, in a way for certain stories over the entire series. no one had really done that in an hour long dramatic show. >> these past four months i've missed you. i had to find that out.

>> in the past, people had watched television passively. and the one thing i think we did set out to be were provocateurs. >> you fill it out. >> what the hell is the matter with you, man? >> they don't pay me enough to deal with animals like this. all they see is a white face and all they -- >> listen to me. it was a white man that pulled the trigger, not a black one. >> it set a trend. the audience can accept characters being deeply flawed even though they're wearing this uniform. i thought that was important to finally get across. >> we wanted to make a show that made you participate. made you pay attention. and i think that worked pretty well. >> and the winner is -- >> "hill street blues." >> 21 nominations. and we went on to win eight

emmys. it put us on the map, literally. that's when people finally checked us out. >> programming chief of one of the networks used to say to me about shows like "hill street" and "st. elsewhere" what the american people want is a cheeseburger. what you are trying to give them is a french delicacy. and he said your job is to keep shoving it down their throat until after a while, they'll say, that's doesn't taste bad. and maybe they'll even toward order it for themselves when they go to the restaurant. >> the success of "hill street blues" influenced everything that's came after. and then "st. elsewhere." >> you know what people call this? st. elsewhere. a place you wouldn't want to send your mother-in-law. >> when it first came on, it was promoted as "hill street hospital." >> you gave your patients the wrong antibiotics. you write the worst progress notes. you're pathetic. >> bill? >> what? >> dr. morning needs you right away. >> i'm sorry.

>> "st. elsewhere" broke every rule there was and then built some new rules. >> blood bank called a little while ago. they ran a routine panel. t-cell count was off. >> they would have tragic things happen to these characters. there was real heartache in these people's lives and you really felt for them. >> i've got aids? >> television at its best is a mirror of society in the moment. >> "st. elsewhere" challenged people and challenged you as an actor, much less the audience to the stuff they gave you was extreme, whether they were dealing with aids or having one of their main doctor characters raped in a prison. >> they tackled lots of difficult subjects. >> "st. elsewhere" was run by people trying to stretch the medium and in the '80s, television producers were encouraged to stretch the medium. >> clear.

>> there was more drama. they were getting a little more adventurous with the types of shows that were getting a shot. >> what are you doing? >> what i should have done all along. >> what i wanted to do originally. >> what i should have done last night. stop that, david. i'm calling the police, david. >> hello, police? >> the networks realized there was an audience looking for something less predictable than traditional primetime fare. >> "moonlighting" was another show that said, okay. i see the formulas we've had up to here. let's do different things. >> hello. >> we're looking a little pale aren't we? who do we have here? >> i don't know. >> they had a shakespeare episode, a black and white episode. they did a musical episode. they tried a lot of different stuff.

>> i don't give a flying fig about the lines in my face, the crow's feet of my eyes or the altitude of my caboose. >> well i'm at a loss. i don't know what a flying fig is. >> that's okay. they do. >> there's no trouble. >> we have a very volatile relationship. there is a hate/love element to it. >> kept them apart for a long time and bravo to him. >> what they did was they took the sam and diane dynamic from "cheers" and escalated it. cheers was will they or won't they. "moonlighting" was do they even want to? >> stay away from me. >> here i come. >> but i don't want you. i never wanted you. >> yeah right. >> does entertaining mean at some point stopping the tease of dave and maddie? do they get together at some point? >> i hope so. that is going to be resolved this year.

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. >> a lot of people used to say i was there. now people say they watched it on television. >> there is just a lot of excitement connected to sports in the '80s. you used to have to depend on the five minutes at the end of your local newscast. there hadn't been enough. you know? give us a whole network of sports. >> there's just one place you need to go for all the names and games making sports news. espn "sportscenter." >> what are tv shows built around? they're built around characters. >> you can't be serious, man. you cannot be serious.

mcenroe the cool villain. >> what tennis really wants is its two best players playing over and over again in the final whether it's john mcenroe or chris everett that's what we wanted over and over again. >> and three match points to martina navratilova. >> this man has a smile that lights up a television screen from here to bangor, maine. >> and then there is magic johnson, this kid from michigan, and larry bird this guy who worked carrying trash, one place for the los angeles lakers the other place for the boston celtics. it's a great story. >> several chances. here's larry bird. >> magic johnson leads the attack. look at that pass. oh, what a show. oh, no. >> when those championship games are in primetime, and people are paying attention to that, television feeds into those

rivalries and makes them bigger than they've ever been before. >> every mike tyson fight was an event because every fight was like an ax murder. when he fought michael sphinx you could feel the electricity on tv. >> there he goes! >> tyson was made for tv because there was drama. >> it's all over! mike tyson has won it. >> not a lot of high school kids can dunk. >> everybody tried. >> he has become something of a public figure. >> michael jordan becomes the model every other athlete wants to shoot for. they want to be a brand and that's what television does for these athletes. turns them into worldwide iconic brands. >> here's michael on the foul line. a shot. the bulls win!

>> athletes in the '80s became part of an ongoing group of people that we cared about. we just had an enormous, pent up demand for sports, and the '80s began to provide thank goodness. >> cable television is continuing to grow. it is estimated it will go into 1 million more u.s. households this year. >> with cable television suddenly offering an array of different channel choices the audience bifurcated. that's an earthquake. >> i want my mtv! >> i want my mtv. >> i want my mtv. >> a new concept is born the best of tv combined with the best of radio. this is it. welcome to mtv, music television, the world's first 24-hour stereo video music channel. >> music television. what a concept. mtv was, pow, in your face. you were not going to turn us

off. >> mtv did nothing but play current music videos all day long. so let me get this straight. you turn on the tv and it's like the radio? >> i'm martha quin. the music will continue nonstop on mtv television the newest component of your stereo system. >> a generation was launched. 18 to 24-year-olds were saying i want my mtv. i want my mtv videos. i want my mtv fashion. >> mtv was the first network focused on the youth market. they understand each other the audience and the network. >> mtv had a giant impact on every part of the tv culture that came next. >> miami vice. freeze. >> friday nights on nbc are different this season thanks to "miami vice" a show with an old theme but a lot of new twists. described by one critic as containing flashes of brilliance

nonetheless shot entirely on location in south miami the story centers around two undercover vice cops. >> i don't know how this is going to work, tubbs. i mean, you're not exactly up my alley style and persona wise. >> heaven knows i'm no box of candy. >> television very much was the small screen. it was interesting about the pilot screen play. he said it was very much not that. very much the approach was okay they call this a television series but we're going to make one-hour movies every single week. >> here we go. stand by. >> they were just describing the show as sort of a new wave cop show. >> yeah. a cop show for the '80s. we use a lot of mtv images and rock music to help describe the mood and feeling of our show. >> in a lot of ways you don't get "miami vice" without mtv because it was a long video in a lot of ways. music was such a big part of that show. >> there is an allure to using

great music that everybody was listening to as opposed to the routine kind of tv scoring. ♪ >> it not only was not afraid to let long scenes play out, it would drag -- a car going from point a to point b could be a four-minute phil collins song. you know. and it was. >> being able to take a television series like "miami vice" and let's rock 'n roll with this until somebody says stop, are you guys crazy, you can't do that, and nobody ever did. >> freeze, police. (airport pa sound)

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>> in recent years it seems television has become a kind of electronic confectional where guests are willing to expose painful and sometimes embarrassing things in their lives quite readily to viewers. >> at the beginning of the decade we get the dominance of phil donahue and that is a sort of maturation of women's issues. he seemed to talk to them in the audience, through the tv screen. >> i'm glad you called. kiss the kids. we'll be back in just a moment. >> if you look at the body of work we've had, you know, you'll see the '80s there. >> i'm not here to say you're wrong but let's understand this. when you bring a moral judgment without knowing them against them for the way that they look, they feel that confirms the reason for their rebellion if that's what you want to call it.

>> he really believed that day time television needed to talk about the ideas we were thinking about, the issues we were concerned about. >> i don't want to characterize his question but why don't you get this fixed instead of doing this screwy stuff? >> there is not a single recorded case in history of any transsexual that ever through psychological treatment changed. it has never happened yet. >> and we were putting very important people on the program. all kinds of people. gay people, people going to jail, people running for office, sometimes the same people. it was a magic carpet ride. you really do paint a very, very grim picture of the sitting president of the united states. >> let me just say this. i think he is probably the laziest president i've ever seen. >> the audience for phil donahue built and built and built and led the way to "oprah."

[ applause ] >> hello everybody. hello! >> oprah has a particularly magical combination of her own background, her own experience, her own incisive mind, and empathetic spirit. >> thank you. i'm oprah winfrey and welcome to the very first national oprah winfrey show! >> i was surprised at the rocket pace oprah took off. it took us a lot longer. the donahue show rearranged the furniture but oprah remodeled the whole house. >> there are a lot of other people out there watching who really don't understand what you mean when you say we're in love. i remember questioning my gay friends saying, you mean you feel about him the way i feel about -- it is kind of a strange concept for a lot of people to accept. >> oprah was connecting with people in a way that no one had

on tv before. and it was really special to see. did you know that for the longest time i wanted to be a fourth grade teacher because of you? >> i was not aware of inspiring anyone. >> i think you did exactly what teachers are supposed to do. they create a spark for learning. that's the reason i have a talk show today. >> oprah winfrey now dominates the talk show circuit both in the ratings and popularity. >> i want to use my life as a source of lifting people up. that's what i want to do. that's what i do every day on my show. we get accused of being tabloid television and sensational and so forth but what i really think we do more than anything else is we serve as a voice to a lot of people who felt up until perhaps my show or some of the others that they were alone. this is what 67 pounds of fat looks like. i can't lift it. it is amazing to me that i can't lift it but i used to carry it around every day. >> there is nothing more endearing to an audience than to have that kind of honesty and

humility and courage on the part of a host. and that i think has a lot to do with her power. >> it feels like i can do some good here and i really do think that the show does a lot of good. >> american television is drowning in talk shows. but it's never seen anything like morton downey jr. >> i want to tell you the story. >> sit down and shut up. >> other competitors come and take the television talk show two different directions. you start seeing the phenomenon of day time television shows becoming less tame and more wild. >> the '80s brought a lot of belligerence to television. whether it was morton downey jr. being the offensive, caricaturish person that he was, or geraldo. he did his own outlandish things. >> stay with us, ladies and gentlemen. we're going to get into the mind of another all american boy who came under the influence of satanism and took part in a

crime without passion or motive. >> geraldo rivera takes the power of the talk show to a whole other level trying to put people on stage who hate each other, who are going to fight. >> in the case of the temple and church of satan we have not had any problems with criminal behavior. >> yet when you hear story after story after story of people committing these wretched crimes, these violent crimes in the devil's name? >> the more tension there is the more conflict there is the more violence there is the more the ratings go up and the american people love to complain about it but they also love to watch. >> geraldo rivera is back in a controversy tonight. he drew sharp criticism with his recent television special on devil worship but today found himself in a real free for all. >> i get sick and tired of seeing uncle tom here sucking up trying to be a white man. >> you sit down. >> hey. >> hold it. >> sit down.

>> rivera suffered a broken nose but says the show will be broadcast later this month in its entirety. >> well, that is not something, you know, i would have done. but there was a lot of hypocrisy. one of the major magazines put the picture of geraldo getting hit with a chair on the cover and the article said, isn't this awful, look what's happened to television, yet they couldn't wait to use it to sell their own magazine. >> let's go to the audience. all right? i want to speak to you guys. >> over the years broadcasting has deteriorated. and now in this era of deregulation it is deteriorating further. >> give people light and they will find their own way. relax. america will survive the talk shows. stelara® works differently. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization.

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houston. >> go ahead. >> we arrived

♪ 1968, the summer before junior high school, and i don't mind saying i was a pretty fair little athlete. >> "the wonder years" was a guy in modern times looking back on his childhood. that in itself is not new, but "the wonder years" did it with a wit and with the music. it was a brilliantly written show and a great performance by that entire young cast. >> hey, steve, it looks like my baby brother and his girlfriend have found each other. >> she's not my girlfriend.

>> kevin arnold has to cope with all the timeless problems of growing up during one of the most turbulent times that we have known. >> kevin arnold is just like a regular kid except in the 1960s, and he's not really aware of many of the events. like in one of the episodes, the whole family is watching the apollo 8 take off, but i'm just sitting there trying to call a girl. >> the first episode of "the wonder years," anybody who saw it remembers the ending where the first kiss with winnie and kevin arnold. the song they play is "when a man loves a woman." that moment seemed so pure and so real. ♪ when a man loves a woman can't keep his mind on nothing else ♪ >> the tone of the baby boomers in the 1960s is about rebellion, about being students. by the 1980s, it's time to grow up. and so they shave their beards, give up their dashikis, and put on power suits, a whole new notion. >> oh, the yuppies.

last year the politicians were talking about winning their votes. now the young urban professionals and the rest of their baby boom generation are being wooed by advertisers and their agencies. >> by the '80s, it was pretty clear that the generation after the generation of the '60s may be embodied by alex keaton on "family ties," seeming to be a lot more interested in the corner office than the new jerusalem. >> you're a young man, you shouldn't be worried about success. you should be thinking about hopping on a tramp steamer and going around the world. >> the '60s are over, dad. >> thanks for the tip. >> you weren't laughing at michael j. fox's character for being too conservative. you were actually laughing at the parents for being too hopelessly liberal. >> what is this? i found it in the shower. >> that's generic brand shampoo. >> no! >> this is him. this is the guy i've been telling you about. this is everything you want in a president.

>> the genius of "family ties," it allows a kind of youthful reaganite that's focused on the future, that's focused more on a critique of the '60s. >> michael j. fox as alex keaton really became the center of the show. and the writers were smart enough to see that they had something special, and they wrote to that. >> it's not fair, alex. >> yeah. there's nothing you can do about it, jen. my advice to you is that you just enjoy being a child for as long as you can. i know i did. it was the best two weeks of my life. >> alex is a little bill buckley. the "wall street journal" is his bible. he has a tie to go with his pajamas. he's a very conservative and very intense 17-year-old. >> the first thing the teacher will ask is what you did over the summer. a lot of kids will say i went to the zoo or i went to the beach or i went to a baseball game. what are you going to say? >> i watched the iran contra

hearings. >> if mom and dad thought this generation was going to the dogs, think again. this is the generation that has discovered hard work and success. >> american culture is changing in the '80s. and in terms of television, there's a whole notion of demographic segmentation. >> networks were beginning to not be afraid to appeal to a very specific demographic. >> hey, handsome. look at that shirt. is that a power shirt or what? >> nice suit, alan. good shoulder pads. you looking to get drafted by the eagles? >> 30-somethings said we're not going to have cops, lawyers or doctors. we're just going to be about people. >> what are we doing here, why did we start this business? >> to do our thing. but right now we got two wives, three kids, four cars, two mortgages, a payroll. and that's life, pal. you be the breadwinner now. >> is that what i am? >> "30 something" is a very important show as you are going

into this era of television being more introspective and more emotional. and some people weren't buying it. but for other people when they were talking about things like having kids and who is going to go back to work and some of these issues that hadn't been talked about a whole lot, it was important to people. >> i was so looking forward -- i was so looking forward to doing this. to be a grown-up for just an hour. >> in the beginning, there was talk of this being the yuppie show. and you mentioned it tonight. you said if there were a category for the most annoying show, this might win as well. >> no, what some people perceive as annoying has nothing to do with yuppie. i think yuppie is a word made up by demographers and advertisers to sell soap. it doesn't have anything to do with what the show is. >> "30 something" was not a giant hit, but it was a niche hit. it attracted an enormously upscale group of advertisers. >> the network cared who was watching, not how many were watching. and that was more and more catching on in the '80s.

>> the prosecution will ask you that you look to the law, and this you must do. but i ask of you that you look to your hearts as well. thank you. >> "l.a. law" was partly a classic lawyer show. but it was intertwined with their personal lives and different lawyers who were sleeping together and trying to get ahead. >> the reality level on that show was like a foot or two off the ground. and you're willing to go with that because it was a whole new spin on a law show. >> huh-uh, tell the truth. if you had to do it all over again and she walked into your office and she said, take my case, would you? >> well -- >> of course you would, because it is juicy, newsy, exciting stuff. >> it was really fun to take the "hill street blues" format and use it to frame an entirely different social and cultural strata with vastly different results.

>> i wonder if i might engage with my client privately. >> certainly. >> what are you doing for dinner tonight? >> i was planning on having you. >> in that case, skip lunch. >> the formula had gotten established of how you can do a dramatic show, and yet still have an awful lot of fun. we didn't used to be able to accept that very easily in a tv hour. and even before the '80s were out, it's like, okay, i get it. so it's like what are the rules now? >> what are you doing? you said you're part of a change going on. >> i'm doing what i should have done all along. they have strong viewpoints and letting them do what they want to do. >> what the best television is, it dryschs itself by its voice.

>> we're supposed to be here and the one thing people can trust. if you go out there like a bunch of knight riders what are you but just another vicious street gang. >> that was a core group of brilliant people. >> the audience's demands were changing. >> obvious television has changed a lot since the first emmy was awarded 35 years ago. >> it's as though the contemporary audience yas westerning for more stories about themselves. >> as the '80s came to an end, everything changed. >> when we look back at the 1980, 10 and 20 years now, we will be disgusted at some tv you just mentioned, the violent programs but one great thing happening now and will happen increasingly throughout the decade is the replacement of rotten entertainment programming by news and talk and information programming on all three networks very slowly. >> will it be rotten news?

>> well, so far most of the news oriented programs, information, magazines on the networks have been surprisingly at least to me surprisingly good. imagine what it was like back when the rolling stones would shock parents everywhere. my, how times have changed. >> i see hustling. i see killing. that's what i rap about. >> you can take me out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto up out of me, though. >> it's a tough time to grow up in. and nirvana and kurt cobain in particular reflect the angst. >> i learned how to write for myself, and it's pretty ironic that most people related to it. >> boom, there it is, platinum record. >> country music has taken over the airwaves and the record charts. >> the honeymoon's over. now we're getting down to real commerce. >> aren't these girls just crazy? >> yeah, they are. ♪