welcome to "reliable sources." this is our weekly look at the story behind the story of how the media works, how the news gets made, and how all of us can help make it better. "the daily beast" uncovered the makier of the misleading of the nancy pelosi video, and the editor is here to explain. one of the stars of "hand maid's tale" is here to talk about the studios saying they may pull out of georgia due to the state's restrictive new abortion law. and later, bill nye the science guy is here talking about there skit from the john oliver show and the most intriguing news item this week -- ufo sightings. first, let's question the conventional wisdom from this

we week. did this television moment matter that much? all of the networks went into breaking news mode and rightly so when robert mueller made his first tv appearance since the launch. his special counsel probe. he tried to clean up months of misleading and straight-up false claims about his report. he practically begged people to read the report for themselves. he said, now, i hope and expect this to be the only time that i will speak in this manner. in other words, he doesn't want to be back on tv. a parade of commentators came out and said mueller's statement was so powerful, it showed why he should be back on tv, why he should testify in front of congress. people don't read, they said, people watch. we do know one person who always watches and seemingly never reads, and he seem wanted upset about mueller's oncamera statement. for president trump, television is the cornerstone. it is his guides. he hires people off of tv, sometimes he fires people based on what he hears on tv. he shapes his policies and makes very expensive decisions based on tv. remember the government shutdown? he also picks up talking points

straight from the tv banners. see hour from the other day -- trump directly quoting the banner on screen on fox, and then tweeting out the quotes. this is common, this has become an everyday occurrence in the trump age. it also relates to why his aides rely on maps and charts and other visual aides for trump. it is all about the visuals. but he's also proven himself to be incredibly, cynically effective at hammering home a message. he shows up and takes a few questions. sometimes he just lies over and over like water erupting from a fire hydrant. for example, he said our tweeted no obstruction at least 36 times in may. that's more than once a day. even though mueller supplied plenty of obstruction-y evidence. trump also said witch hunt at least 26 times in may. journalists usually dutifully repeat it sending it out further. sometimes fact checking it, sometimes not. here's my point, though -- nobody else in the public square is even coming close to matching

this fire hydrant. and public opinion is so hardened that i don't see many minds being changed by a day or two of mueller reading from the report. this is new polling showing a slight uptick in support for impeachment between april and june. don't get me wrong, as a reporter i would like to see mueller questioned. i'd like to see a lot of people questioned in front of congress. but this idea that hearing mueller's voice makes all the difference, mark me down as skeptical. even when he does speak, he's whispering. and the president is shouting at the top of his lungs. here to tell me if i'm right or wrong, sarah ellison, staff writer for the "washington post." noah shackman, editor and chief of "the daily beast," and correspondent for "the atlantic," elena plott. thank you for being here. i was struck by how much attention mueller received. he did make news in his statement. do you think ultimately it had a significant impact on the public

debate? >> i think it had the beginning of an impact for sure. it even had brett baier on fox news saying it was a very different message than what people had heard from william barr. so it was a short statement. you know, we were all sort of geared up for something very explosive. i do think it was a significant and important thing that he said. and so we can't judge just whether he should have done that or whether -- how many minds were changed. it was the beginning of the conversation. >> the beginning, not the end. the idea that the president is screaming while everybody else in the public sphere is only kind of quietly talking, am i right about that, or wrong about that? that trump's voice is so much louder than everybody elms's? >> i think you're right. but i think we're going to have a conversation about how trump is so driven by visuals and the power of television, we have to have a conversation, too, about how democrats so clearly were moved by mueller's statement. i mean, think of the number of democrats -- democratic candidates who after that were so insistent on calling for impeachment. >> cory booker and others for

the first time said impeachment. >> but the point is that mueller didn't say anything that was not already in that report. so i think it casts credibility questions about those calls for impeachment. >> that's interesting. do you agree, noah? >> i do agree because, look, right after mueller talked on tv, you saw the president say for the first time in a tweet that, oh, russia did help him win the election. i thought those were not coincident coincidental. i think there's enormous value in mueller getting up and being questioned. look, even some of the mostardent followers of every twist and will tu-- every twistf the mueller investigation hurt something new. >> the president heading to the united kingdom for a state visit. let me show how sky news is promoting the coverage of the visit. this is remarkable. it's a promo video they've been using both on television and on

line. you'll see how it rolls out. to prep, president trump has given two interviews two papers owned by rue metro mupert murdo. you can tell where sky news is coming from, it says something about where the british population is with regards to trump. with regards to the interviews the president gave, he clearly made news in the first. he talked about meghan markle. he was asked by a report about meghan markle's past criticism of him. then the president said, " i didn't know she had been nasty in the past. incredibly trump's re-election team put out a tweet saying he did not say nasty. it seemed that cnn and other outlets were saying it was fake news, using the name nasty. today the president himself is saying he didn't use the word nasty. i don't think this is a big deal, but here is the president saying the word "nasty" on tape. let's watch. >> no, i didn't know that she was nasty. >> there it is. for the record, the word came out of his mouth. i don't think it's the biggest

deal in the world. but want? this one of those cases of the president trying to challenge people, believe me versus your own sneeears? >> yes, let's say there is not a big deal. ly did say a lot -- he did say a lot around that nasty word. to play devil's advocate, he said a lot of nice things about. m. she said and he was prompted by the interviewer saying she would move to canada if he was elected. he was drawn into there -- >> by a reporter -- >> he did say the word. i don't know why you would die on that hill that you didn't say that word. just let it go. it's not that big a deal. here we are. >> it's only a big deal if you apply it to the destruction of truth category. you can't believe your own ears. i think this is the kind of story all sides -- i hate to say this, all sides win. trump allies say, there goes the media being mean to our guy again. they're promoting fake news. we come back and say, here's the

real news, the video, and everybody ends up being more polarized. >> i agree with sarah. what i also don't understand is why if this is the hill trump is going to die on, why his team would not be a bit more explicit, maybe argue he wasn't calling her nasty, he was calling her comments nasty. if they're going to do that, delineate it properly. but -- but instead they've just tweeted, no, he never said it. >> the flat denial. that's crazy. no, i was struck by something that "reuters" published about how the trump administration has been changing the health care system, making tweaks to regulations that affect millions. here's a quote from the article, from the head of the club for growth. he said, one of the benefits of trump's twitter approach is that it creates headlines, and that's what it's intended to do. underneath the headlines, yenchls in the administration can go about peacefully doing their job. hhs has released significant regulations that have changed the nature of obamacare, of health care, with very little coverage in the press.

david mcintosh quoted there from the conservative group for growth. he's happy to have the changes happening on the surface while there's the tweets. isn't it a critique of the press to say there hasn't been enough coverage of the regulatory changes? >> it's absolutely a critique and a nightmare for washington, d.c., coverage. the circus goes on, the shady deals, the backhanded agreements with lobbyists. you know, the regulations slipped in in the middle of the night go uncovered. those are the kind of things that during the obama, bush, or other years would have been diligently covered, in, you know, by our press corps, and because of trump's gravitational pull, it really is hard to get those stories out. >> and there is great reporting happening. but because of the gravitational pull, the focus ends up being on trump and on the scandal of the day. let's take a break and come back in a moment. we want to explore the pentagon's disappointing milestone of silence. more than a year without a pentagon spokesperson speaking

on camera, you know, the way briefings worked for decades. cnn's barbara starr with the story after this. . where people are into coffee, tech, and retirement planning. the perfect retirement for me is doing the things that i want to do, not the things i have to do. unlike seattle, less than half of americans participate in their employer retirement plans. so what keeps people more engaged in their retirement? i want to have the ability to easily transact online, great selection of funds, great advice, everything in one place. helping people in their working years and beyond. that's financial wellness. talk to your employer or start a plan at prudential.

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♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ welcome back. we're past a year since the pentagon held a press briefing. we've seen these for decades throughout republican and democratic administrations. both defense secretaries and their aides using the briefing room to inform the public about issues of war and peace. these days the defense secretary

does sometimes take questions from the press including on his trip now. as you can see, it's been more than a year since we well one of those regular briefings. again, there is similar to what's happening at the white house, the lack of the white house press briefings. it's happening at the pentagon and other government agencies, as well. what is going on? why the drought of briefings? here's cnn's pentagon correspondent barbara 'stache sh the answer. >> reporter: kiss front man gene simmons was in the pentagon briefing room last month. for the last year, no pentagon press secretary has appeared on camera to answer reporters' questions. >> general -- >> reporter: a former military spokesman says televised briefings are vital for the military's credibility. >> there's a huge difference in having a person on camera where people cannot only hear the questions asked but listen to the answers, see the individual delivery those answers. >> reporter: the last televised briefing was may 31st last year.

then press secretary dana white was asked about everything from syrian chemical weapons to the military's involvement on immigration. >> we are very open to providing facilities. >> reporter: several senior officials say televised briefings stopped because of worry tv watcher-in-chief president trump would get angry if he saw something he didn't like. >> the people who have been trained in public affairs or the military commanders or whoever is standing up in front doesn't want to cause any disruptions and cause the wrath of the commander in chief. and to me, that's -- that's near cowardice. >> reporter: acting defense secretary patrick shanahan regularly takes reporters' questions and says he wants a good media relationship. >> we want you to like write good stories, get good backdrops, all those good things. >> reporter: he often uses media for his agenda. >> what i thought i'd is dao is talk -- i'd do is vfisiting

people on capitol hill. >> reporter: that was about iran. the pentagon says in a statement criticism is unfair, the department has facilitated numerous on and off-camera press engagements on a variety of topics in addition to written press statements, social media posts, and other products. >> hello, everybody -- >> reporter: using the briefing room backfired when girard butler agreed to promote his movie. >> we had the script for many, many years. >> reporter: butler had just canceled a trip to saudi arabia after "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi was murdered in the saudi consulate in istanbul. the administration wasn't saying much about the murder, but butler did. >> we were informed of what was happening, and it just didn't feel like a good time to be getting involved -- getting involved with that, it would have felt incredibly insensitive to to g -- to go to saudi arabi.

>> reporter: news made by a film act actor. shanahan said he will start the briefings again but hasn't said when. for now reporters on the pentagon beat have challenges getting information on a timely basis and holding officials to account, making sure that powerful officials have to answer the questions that reporters pose to them. but make no mistake, restrictions are nothing new for reporters, and like always, we'll just work our way around them. brian? >> barbara, thank you. again, the defense secretary answers questions to aides. on-camera briefings, another custom that's been canceled by the trump administration. still to come here, i'll be sitting down with an executive producer and one of the stars from "the handmaid's tale." first, "fire and fury"'s author is coming out with "siege," already under siege for factual mistakes. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members.

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the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. michael wolff's first book about trump "fire and fury" was a sensation. but the sequel is called "siege" has been met with a shrug so far. journalists are being very cautious, very skeptical about the claims that he makes in the book. it comes out on tuesday, but journalists have advanced copies. the biggest news item is an allegations that the mueller team drafted an indictment of trump on obstruction of justice charges. mueller's spokesman said the documents that wolff described simply do not exist. my panel is back with me now to discuss this. and some other media headlines. what do we make of the idea, elena, that wolff claims there was this draft indictment and then the special counsel's office which almost never

confirms or denies anything says the document isn't real? that's what they're implying. >> i mean, the fact that we have to wait until after the publication of a book like this to hear about this as opposed to michael wolff putting within the text the special counsel's office denied this to me. however, these are the reasons that you, the reader, should still trust is me -- especially in a in a moment when trump is, and his team, are on the lookout for every slipup in the press. it's not only an irresponsibility to the public but also reporters across the country who are trying to cover this white house accurately. >> you mean by not asking for comment? this is not just the special counsel's office, it was the white house who said it wasn't asked before the book comes out. >> the idea that as a reporter you have one source and you believe them credible enough to where you're not going to give the other side the luxury of hearing what you're about to push. what strikes me as odd is he says because he is not institutionally bounds, he

doesn't work for the "washington post" or "the daily beast," he doesn't have to do that, as though reporters are only calling for comment because of the dictates of the institution they work for, as opposed to it just being the ethically sound thing to do. >> noah, what if it gets the o mood music right but have lots of factual mistakes? the reviewers so far point out lots of errors in the text that undermine the entire book. >> yeah, correct. the mood music is not good enough. it's got the facts -- the facts have to be right, too. at "the daily beast" we talked about this last week, about how we should treat "siege." how we should cover it. and the sort of dick hatate we up with, the guidelines, treat this as a series of tips and rumors from a semi reliable narrator. somebody who may be getting the mood music right, but on each individual facts may not be accurate. >> use it as a beginning of something and then try to confirm it yourselves? >> yeah. or look for the denials, look

for the confirmations, sure. don't treat it as a -- as a true statement by itself. >> i notice, sarah, the "washington post," in its review of the book, described cringe-worthy errors. so there's been a lot of attention around there. wolff, we've not heard from. it's one sided right now. the book comes out on tuesday. he hasn't given interviews yet. we're only hearing from his critics. is there a pro-wolff argument here? >> he did give one interview to "the new york times" and said that he's able to sort of know that he doesn't need to go for comment because he really trusts his source. and that's just a laughable thing to say on the face of it if you're trying to be a journalist or even parading around as somebody trying to get to the truth. i mean, i think that there is sometimes a sense when you're calling for comment you know you're not going to get anything. sometimes you really hit the jackpot, and you get a lot of good information. so it just -- i think it's a tip sheet. i think that michael wolff has put out gossip, and now we can have a conversation about whether or not it's true.

and real reporters can actually try to figure out and credibly confirm the information. but i don't think that anyone can treat it as gospel. >> confirm or debunk the information. >> right. >> let's turn to your scoop this weekend. "the daily beast" reporting on the possible, seems, the creator of the nancy pelosi dumb fake video. the one that made her appear to be drunk, slurring her words. it got a lot of attention a week ago. trying to figure out who created it? >> right. this is a video that was a hoax that reached up to the highest, highest levels of power with rudy giuliani himself pushing it out. and so there's a lot of speculation about who might or might not be behind this. and so kevin paulsen was able to track down the kind of network of fake news sites that were pushing this, and then the person that first uploaded the video. >> what we learned from the story is there's a profit motive here, that you can put up a lot of voice on fake, maybe a quick

buck. didn't the good day suy say me $1,000? >> yeah. but i don't think it was a pure profit motive. it was a matter of idealogy. he's a big trump supporter. one of the things that was interesting to me was you don't need some sophisticated operation in order to publish fake news or publish a hoax that will grab the country's attention. >> it doesn't take a russian bot farm. it's one person with video-editing software tricking people. >> exactly. i thought that was the key -- >> the people saying you shouldn't have named him because he's a private citizen. i'm seeing people saying your responsible for oughting him. >> i don't think that's action rhe rita. he -- accurate. he pushed the video and spoke to our reporter at length and on the record for an hour and a half. then we also withheld some information that he didn't -- that he didn't want out there, that he felt would impinge on his privacy.

i -- i am glad that these people want to protect the privacy of this man. but i think our actions in this case were right on the money. >> it does feel that dumb fakes are everywhere. elena, there was a blowup about ian bremmer, writer for "time," political scientist. put out this fake tweet -- this fake quote from trump, you look at the tweet, it could have looked like a real comment the president said. he says he meant it in jest but the president criticized him. the problem with a tweet, it's a respected person on twitter making up a quote from the president, and a lot of folks fell for it. >> i -- to echo what i said earlier, i think that in the trump era, always but more so today than ever, reporters have to see their actions on twitter not just as representatives of who they are and what they believe and what reporters should do ethically. but also as responsible to the institutions they represent. other reporters. i mean, reporters have to see

themselves when they use twitter in these fast and loose ways as not just jeopardizing their reputation but the reputation of the press at large. for ian bremmer to do that, it's not just hurting him. it's hurting all of us. >> even if he's just joking, it's safer to keep things high when everyone else is low. coming up, more ahead including the entertainment industry taking a stands against these effective abortion bans that some states are trying to put into law. this is a commercial about insurance and i know you're thinking. i don't want to hear about insurance. 'cause let's be honest... nobody likes dealing with insurance. right? see, esurance knows it's expensive. i feel like i'm giving my money away. so they're making it affordable. thank you, dennis quaid. you're welcome, guy in kitchen. i named my character walter. that's great. i'd tell you more but i only have thirty seconds so here's a dramatic shot of their tagline so you'll remember it. when insurance is affordable,

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headlines this week. major media company, virtually all of the hollywood stadiums from netflix to warner media which owns cnn, from disney to nbc, same day will stop producing movies and tv shows in georgia if the new anti-abortion law goes into effect. the law has been passed. now it's being challenged in the courts. the issue that s that georgia is the -- issue is that georgia is the epicenter in the south for tv and studios. they love to make movies and so shows there. stars, producers, other hollywood talent, they're not going to want to go to georgia or other states where the draconian laws have been put into place. as a result studios are saying we're going to have to think about leaving georgia. again, only if the laws actually go into effect. what's going on is these media companies expect the laws to be challenged in court. expect an outcome, make sure the

laws don't go into effect. if they do, disney, netflix, et cetera, saying they'll take action. now of all the tv shows, of all the movies that explore issues involving women's rights, "the ha handmaid's tale" is number one. it's owned by disney. set to release the third season of "the handmaid's tale" in a few days. it's going to be streaming on wednesday. it's based on a novel, set in a totalitarian america ruled by a fundamentalist regime that treats women as property. infertility has become the norm. the few fertile women are used as slaves forced to repopulate the country. let's talk about the fictional hgz and what's going on with ann dowd, one of the stars, she played aunt lydia, as well as the producer, warren littlefield. he is also here with me both in new york. you promoting the 30s season of this show i -- the third season

of the so how i love. you're getting into real life, it the abortion bans. what's your view about what's happening in georgia and other southern states? >> may view is that it is unconscionable. and not just because no one including middle class and upper-class old, white men have the right to choose for a woman, no one does. but because these laws would hurt, as usual, the poor and the marginalized who if they are forced of to children they cannot support, they cannot educate, they cannot nurture in a way that says life is good, who has the right to make that decision for anyone? we are all pro-life. there's a difference between pro-life and pro-birth. pro-life means you take responsibility for all of those children in this world who are suffering. >> right now "the handmaid's tale" mostly in toronto, in canada? >> that's right. >> if it was produced in a state like georgia, would you want to move the show out of georgia or

one of the states where the bills are trying to into effect? >> if the issue became law in georgia, i would not go near there. i think "handmaid's team," of course, what the heck would they be doing there? but ann is absolutely right. we now have many studios who are standing up and saying this doesn't feel right, really a warning -- >> an economic warning to the states. >> a season of a single series dumps tens of millions of dollars into a local and state economy. now you're talking about entire studios. the entire -- for film and for television, massive, massive amounts of money, and they will feel it. i think this is a very effective message to be sending. >> ann, everybody as they watch "handmaid's tale" thinks about what's happening in this country now. how close or far do you think

america really is to the fictional hello scope of gilead? >> a heck of a lot closer than we were season one. which is terrifying. >> only a couple of years ago, and the country has gone that far backwards -- >> when i saw what was going on in georgia, i literally thought this can't be real. it stunned me. the degree of -- of what's going on in the anti-abortion world. i just thought this cannot be america. i mean, i don't know -- it was scary in season one. but then trump, of course, and then suddenly we thought let's get hereal here. >> in the first there was a "make america great again," but it was taken out. >> it got more serious as we were shooting the pilot, there is happening. and then, of course, it did. so as june says, by the time we put our phone down, it was too late. >> one of the flashback scenes, describing life before -- >> before gilead --

>> gilead -- >> stay alert, stay aware. >> what's your view? >> well, margaret atwood wrote a speculative fiction 35 years ago. however, she created that worlds all by using historical fact. of course it felt to us like this is a warning. it's a really important warning. we were seeing the rise of the alt-right, brexit was certainly on the horizon. we were feeling that things were changing. and now a few years later, we're feeling it's arrived. we're in a very, very slippery slope to gilead right now. that's what we're feeling, that's certainly when we feel when we do the show. we went to washington this year for the show. we shot on the steps of the lincoln memorial. and it was chilling because as

we were trying to do content that is about human rights and protecting women's rights, over in the rose garden they were talking about eliminating them. >> ann, if you could say something to the lawmakers who have been passing these so-called heartbeat bills, what would you tell them other than maybe to watch "handmaid's tale"? what would you tell them? >> i would say we consider your point of view and what pro-life really means. because what it really means is looking after the hundreds of thousands of children who have no one, they should be at the border protesting the treatment of children and separation of children and family. to really consider the teachings of jesus which is what they base their beliefs on. love one another, take care of the poor, go back and look at the basic values of what you are saying to us, and keep in mind we are all pro-life. we are not -- we are not careless about abortion. it is not something anyone wants. it is sometimes a necessity. and stop treating it as throw

it's some horrible, brutal assassination or execution as trump said which was disgraceful. the suffering of people and this kind of rhetoric is very damaging. i would say look again, deep in, about what it really means to be pro-life. >> ann and warren, thank you for being here. >> a pleasure. thanks. >> thank you. a quick break and then i book i want to recommend. a new book about inequality. the author suggestions if you want to understand america, you got to go to mcdonald's. everyone's got to listen to mom. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family's diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar.

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welcome back to "rebeliblia sources." we were discussing michael wolff's book that's out on tuesday. there's another book out that i think deserves more of your attention. "dignity: seeking respect in back row america." writer and photographer chris renotti traveled the country for years using his camera as an introduction. he's been capturing -- the field called "forgotten men and women of america." people struggling to bridge the ever-growing economicgrap grapa. he's a former wall street trader who quit his job to order to do this, to document poverty and addiction and people who feel they don't have dignity. chris is here with me now for his first national interview about the book. chris, this strikes me for a number of reasons. let's start with front row versus back row.

for people who haven't heard your idea, you describe yourself as someone in the front row of america. what's the back row? >> people who don't have an education beyond high school. if they do, it's community college, trade schools. they generally stay in town and live in communities that have been, to use a buzzwords, forgotten, left behind, distant. places we tends not to talk about a lot. >> you purposely sought out the communities for what reason? >> to learn basically. i had been on wall street, i was partially financi partially possible for the financial crisis. what we had done on wall street was so wrong. i wanted to basically learn about the blips on the screen that we -- the consequences of our actions. >> when you said the country's been split into two worlds, you can tell what neighborhood you're in based on -- which of the two worlds you're in, who is ultimately responsible for that

split? >> i mean both of us, everybody, the whole country. i think ultimately, i blame the front more than i blame the back row only because we're the ones currently in power. we're the ones who hold political office, we're the ones who run wall street, we're the ones who run ceos, lawyers, i think we have more -- we have more power. simply put, we generally create policy. >> i think your book, "dignity," has lessons for reporters, for journalists about covering inequality. inequality is one of the stories of our time. yet it's easy to lose sight of it amid the kpritwitter tirades. to understand the country, visit mcdonald's. why? >> i think how people view mcdonald's is kinds of a test on what they think they if they're back row, front row in general. people in the front row, myself included, in the past looked down at mcdonald's as places in have a lot of problems. they serve bad food. i have learned the food is pretty good. >> it is, it is. >> but once you go there, you

realize, you know, because i was spending time with the homeless addicts, they went there and went because it provides a community. it provides them safety. and also it's -- basically a community center. it allows them to charge their phones. allows them to use the restroom. it allows them also, by the way, to gain a moment of dignity, to rejoin society without any real rules. they go on a university campus, they get kicked out. if they go into so many institutions, they're ejected. at mcdonald's they can kind of hang there. >> i would go there and bring your camera. how did you use it as a way of starting conversations? >> in general i started the conversation, often they would ask about what -- often i was the sole white guy in the place. i got questions that way. in general, the camera brought questions to me. and i would start a conversation from that. the last thing i would do is ask people to take their pictures because i wanted them to make sure -- and then i would really say, like, are you sure you want to do this, to make sure that's really what they want to do. the other thing i want to be

clear is one of the things fascinating is i allowed people to pose the they way wanted to pose. so very rare ly do addicts or homeless or working class in aggregate are given the dignity to choose how they want to be photographered. in general, it's usually from a distance and not very nice pictures. i let them go in the bathroom and put on make-up, fix up their hair, you know -- >> give them dignity. >> give them dignity. >> this is not about how trump won or why he won. what do you want people to learn from your experience? >> a few things. one is as much as they try, they're still in a bubble. that's not their fault. that's the industry's fault. they have to work in places like where we are here now to succeed. and i think with the death of small town media, that's really, really hurt. you know, journalists have to be in big centers. despite the great intensions of

most of them, it's really -- you just lose touch with where you came from. a lot of them came from back-row america. you know, a lot of these pieces that have been done recently, this kind of parachute journalism, i think misses that you just have to be there. >> be there. live there. and visit the mcdonald's. >> right. >> chris, thanks for being here. >> thank you very much for having me. >> the book is "dignity," out on tuesday. coming up, bill nye. i asked him about ufo sightings.

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wohhh? huhhhh? [ grumbling ] all: sausages! mmm, mmmm. bon appetite. make time for what matters. pause your wifi with xfinity xfi and see the secret life of pets 2 in theaters. sources." i sat down with bill nye the science guy to talk about climate change and ufos. first he told me about making this swear-laden video. >> the planet's on [ bleep ] fire! you're not children anymore. i didn't mind explaining pho photosenthesis when you were children but you're adults now. >> my performance was

heart-felt. keep in mind, you guys, i have been trying get people to address climate change since about 1993. and my first kids book has a demonstration about the greenhouse effect. at that time i lit real didn't want to scare the children. >> literally. >> yes. so it was about the greenhouse effect rather than the consequences of human activity amplifying the greenhouse effect. that was a long time ago. and i've been fighting this fight or bringing this to people's attention for a long time. >> didn't want to scare the children but you do want to scare the adults, it seems. >> yes. it's time to get to work. quit messing zoornd have you found effective ways to get through to climate change deniers? >> climate change deniers to me are like astrology people or haunted house people. it takes a couple years. you have to present the argument, let them think about it for a while. present the argument again.

he let them think about it. it takes a couple years for people to change their minds. i'm not saying lower your expectations, just keep at it. >> the front page of the new york headlines, trump administration hardens its attack on climate science. what's your thoughts? >> i think it will catch up with them. you you can't say the world is glass and still do commerce. >> let's talk about space. "the new york times" has been writing about navy pilots experiencing these strange circumstances in the air. these unidentified flying objects. ufos. it's got a lot of people on social media talking about aliens this week. where do you come down on this? >> that one part of the government doesn't tell the other part of the government what they're doing. by government, i'm talking military. if the naval reconnaissance office is messing around with some airborne gizmo, they don't tell the air force what they're doing.

they certainly don't tell the other parts of the navy what they're doing. i went to guys that went to groom lake every day -- or regularly. area 51, this air force base in nevada where these planes, planes especially are developed. they're secret. py wouldn't be surprised if they observe some secret test that nobody wants to talk about. and the story is being exaggerated now. >> so, these are ufos because the people seeing them don't know how to identify them. but they're not extra ter rterrl life. that's what your gut tells you. >> almost certainly not. >> why certainly not? >> extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. if an alien shows up, i'm all for it, let's go. but it's probably one part of the military not telling the other part of the military what they're up to, for good reason. >> very interesting. i want to end this hour on a hopeful note.

watch. >> as screwed up as things seem to be for the average person, things are better than they've ever been in history. >> getting better. >> the saying goes, if you couldn't pick where on earth you were born, you couldn't choose that but when, this would still be the time. as messed up as you -- as many mass shootings as there are, as many wars are being conducted around the world, there are a lot fewer wars than the bad old days, strangely enough. this whole pessimism, we can't do this wring your hands, run in circles screaming. it's not my style. >> we can't solve these problems. >> right. >> but this idea of denying science is incompatible with solving problems. >> you can hear the full conversation on this week's "reliable sources" podcast and we'll see you right back here this time next week. in the us. it's a competition for the talent. employees need more than just a paycheck. you definitely want to take advantage of all the benefits you can get.

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