and 86 polygamy, you can accept the lgbtq plus community for who they are. it's the right thing to do because people's lives depend on it. don't listen to me, listen to one of your own when he says. >> i have a sneaky suspicion that god believes in love. being the victim of a violent crime, i went down a real dark path. >> i wanted to go there to murder someone. >> he pointed a pistol at me and shot me twice. no one can go through that without being scarred. >> i wanted that badge. it was like -- i wanted people to fear me. >> you're going to be sitting across from the guy who tried to take your life, who killed your friend. >> if you expect me to forgive you, you have to come to a place in your life where you're honest about what you did. >> i'm not asking for his forgiveness.

>> i spent half my life working with the criminal justice system and i've seen lives devastated by violence. we like to imagine that after the verdict the story is over, the victim and the offender are never meant to meet again. but for some, the only way to move forward is to come face to face with the person who shattered their lives. so i'm here in sacramento, california, it's the state capital. i have spent way too much time in this city lobbying on all kind of issues, trying to help urban youth, but i'm here for a very different reason this time. i'm here to meet with "gunner" johnson. his life was totally turned upsidedown 24 years ago.

the incident left his good friend dead. left him seriously injured. there's a cycle of violence. you know, hurt people hurt people. the whole incident actually led "gunner" down a very dark path, and i want to talk with him about the way this incident changed the course of his whole life. "gunner" has decided he wants to meet the guy who pulled the trigger and i want to talk with him, find out what are his expectations in having a conversation with somebody who almost killed him. >> i appreciate getting a chance to spend some time with you. >> no problem. it's my pleasure. >> you're a student. >> yeah. >> what's going on in your life today? >> today i'm busy. you know, busy's good. i'm a full-time student at sacramento state university. i'm a sociology major. i plan to go to graduate school and eventually i'd like to go to law school. >> i don't know if you've read his book. >> i haven't yet.

i'll try to read it before tuesday. being on campus at 44 years old, i'm a lot more focused than other students. i'm not distracted by partying or facebook or all these other things. i was raised by two college professors who really promoted school and success academically. i kind of rebelled against that. school was not a priority. i started dabbling in pot my freshman year of high school. actually, maybe my eighth grade year is when it really started taking off. my dad tried to put me in a drug treatment center when i was 15, and it didn't work. eventually, my parents just kicked me out. you know, i was 15 years old. i was on my own. and i discovered the grateful dead and it was, you know, a profound experience for a young kid. ♪ the dead coast to coast and had some pretty amazing experiences.

i had a pretty happy, carefree existence as a hippie. i didn't have support financially from my parents at that time. so i learned to sell marijuana. i thought of it not really as dealing drugs but as a service. it seemed really laid back. i didn't think of having to carry a gun, but eventually i started to because there was just so much money involved. >> and you're, like, how old? >> 19, 18, yeah. >> so, just take me back. describe what happened the night of the incident. >> it was december 20th of 1994. i remember patrick, a really good friend of mine, came by. i remember he tuned my mandolin for me. i had a mandolin. i could play it poorly. he was a really good musician. he tuned it for me. we got a six pack of sammy smiths. you know, maybe smoked a joint, went down and had taco bell. and when we came back, it was roughly midnight.

there was a car in my driveway with their lights pointing down the driveway at us as we pulled in. i didn't recognize the car. i remember thinking, you know, who is this? and i drew my gun. and josh and christian got out of the car. josh was one of my best friends. i'd known him since junior high. christian, he was just kind of a friend of a friend, and i didn't really associate with him. he was into, like, nazi propaganda and skinhead stuff which was absolutely the opposite of everything my group of friends were into as hippies. i could tell that these guys were visibly loaded on methamphetamines. they were jittery all over the place. and then josh asked me if i wanted to get some pot from a friend of his that grew pot up in humboldt county. he asked me how much money i had together to go up there, and now looking back, i think he was trying to see how much money i had on me. they left and i didn't think anything of it.

later on i told my friend patrick that if he didn't feel like driving that he could crash on the couch. i guess it was 5:00 in the morning. i wasn't aware of the time, but i heard a noise. i sat up in bed and joshua and christian were dragging my safe out of my closet, like, at the foot of my bed just a few feet from me. without a word, christian pulled out a pistol and aimed it at me and shot me twice. i was shot in the face. left cheek. bullet knocked my tooth out through the back of my throat. i spit out a mouthful of blood. then another bullet entered up here and exited. i remember hearing muffled gunshots. muffled gunshots in the distance. i don't know how much time has lapsed. i was not knocked unconscious. when i woke up, it was a couple days after i'd been shot. i had tubes everywhere. i had a respirator in my throat, something in my nose. you know, i couldn't speak. my parents were there and they had this board that had the alphabet on it so i could

communicate with them and the first thing i asked is, pat, you know, patrick. and they said he didn't make it. >> what kind of person was patrick? >> he was just like a ball of light. amazing musician. absolute pacifist. you know, just a very kind of spiritual person, you know? the world lost a very special person that day. that's my first experience with death, and it was rough. when i came out of the hospital, i was angry. it kept me up at night. you know, i would play it over and over in my head. the fact that i was robbed but not only robbed but robbed by friends, hurt. it was an awful feeling, a powerless feeling, being a victim. >> i mean, you're going to be sitting across from the guy who tried to take your life, who killed your friend. help me understand why you decided that you want to sit down with christian.

>> christian took the fifth. he didn't testify. what i want is just some answers. you know, the who, what, when, why, and how. ♪ >> during the trial, i felt this is a farce. this is a lie. this is all a bunch of horse shit, you know, like, none of this is real. when i committed this crime, "gunner" was someone that was trying to be an active criminal. you know, not a hippie. not a nice guy. i do believe that there are some distortions in his comprehension of what really transpired that night. the men in black demand only the best. ♪ suit. tie. shades. weapon. and ride. when you're protecting the earth

from the scum of the universe, a little extra horsepower never hurts. i'm driving. that... really should be here. uhh, not in this country. experience the performance and refinement of the 2020 lexus rc f in men in black international. experience amazing. wow. we did it. we built the fastest network for the latest iphones. and the iphone xr, with a retina display that makes everything look incredible... it's like the perfect couple - you know, the ones who look great in every picture. like the ones who always make me feel like a before photo. zoey and chris. hey guys! hey... zoey and chris! ...how fun is that? at&t has the fastestnetwork for the latest iphones. get the mind blowing iphone xr on us when you buy the latest iphone. at&t. more for your thing. that's our thing. and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals.

boost® high protein. be up for life. in every trip, there's room for more than just the business you came for. ♪ this wave is rolling let's get going ♪ ♪ we've got places to be ♪ hey-ey-ey whether that's taking in every moment... ♪ ...or capturing a moment worth bringing back. that's room for possibility. ♪ let's see how far we can go-o-o... ♪ -[ scoffs ] if you say so. ♪ -i'm sorry? -what teach here isn't telling you is that snapshot rewards safe drivers

with discounts on car insurance. -what? ♪ -or maybe he didn't know. ♪ [ chuckles ] i'm done with this class. -you're not even enrolled in this class. -i know. i'm supposed to be in ceramics. do you know -- -room 303. -oh. thank you. -yeah. -good luck, everybody. ♪ christian branscombe, he shot and killed a guy named

patrick and seriously wounded "gunner" johnson back in 1994. i really want to hear christian's side of this whole thing and what drove him to commit an act of violence like this. ♪ >> van. >> you all right, sir? >> good to see you, brother. >> good to see you. >> thank you for coming in. >> i know, thank you for making some time. >> making some time. i got lots of it, brother. >> good point. this is the place, huh? >> yep. this is where we do all the heavy lifting. >> yeah. one of the things i was curious about is just how you even got to know "gunner." >> you know, i just kind of met him in passing, you know, seemed like a decent guy to me at the time. i was probably about 17 or 18.

we would just, like, attend a party or in passing we would spend time with one another. bill. all right, bro. see, i met him when he's selling drugs and he's doing things but it's kind of like a harmless scene, it's not a really revved up aggressive scene, you know, like you would expect in a drug culture. more kind of like the hippie scene. it wasn't like the biker scene i'd come from. the biker community, it's revved up all the time. like, you're always acting up and you're always in that state. we were definitely okay with violence. >> how did it go from sort of like not that big a deal to at some point he managed to piss you off? >> from the first time that i was around "gunner" to the point of where i committed this crime was a little bit of a space of time. a year or two, you know, but now all of a sudden he was carrying guns. he's selling more. he's pushing more money. he's pushing more weight. he's getting a more aggressive

vibe to him. it changed our relationship, and what ended up happening was that is because i'd had a series of failures, i was really feeling low. so i start using speed. i end up, you know, being up for several days at a time. and then becoming sleep deprived. all of those things that you don't want to face start coming out of you, you know, a lot of people call them meth monsters. and you're kind of, like, in a dream place where you're confronting all the things that you don't want to confront. and my stability is coming unhinged. so at this time, i see "gunner." my friend, josh, was kind of, like, a lackey for "gunner" and "gunner" would give him opportunities to sell drugs and on the 18th of december, 1994, we went over to "gunner's" house. when we got there, we had to wait in the driveway for him because nobody was home.

"gunner" comes up into the driveway and he stops the car. he opens up the door and he comes down the sideway and he clearly has his gun. well, this fires me up, like, you going to get at me with a gun? you know, like this is how we're doing this? i jump out of the car and i confront him and, you know, he backs down. but as i get in the car, i tell josh, i'm like, man, i ain't really feeling the way they got at us. that dude needs to get checked. he needs to understand who we are and not to mess with, you know, like that's not acceptable to me. you got to understand the biker community is, like, they have very clear-cut codes on things, you know. you didn't brandish a gun unless you were willing to use it. like, you didn't pull out a gun and try to scare somebody with it because that's how you get killed. you betrayed your friend, you betrayed the code. death was warranted. the house that "gunner" lived in was basically a crash pad. a lot of people slept over there and kind of pit stopped. it was a high-traffic area. we knock on the door. patrick answers the door.

josh goes into the kitchen area. and i go into "gunner's" room. and i shot him. i hear josh running through the house yelling and i'm kind of half dodging gunfire in my mind thinking, like, this dude might have a beef. as soon as i see patrick, i shoot one round at him, bam, and he drops. i go back into the room. "gunner" is sitting up on the bed. we're this close to one another and he has the gun pointed at my chest and i hear it click. his gun had jammed. in that moment of fear, because he had the gun directly at my chest, and i go, you know what, and i felt good about shooting him in the head. like, oh, you going to get me, i got you. and i put the gun to his chest because i was going to shoot him again. and my co-defendant, josh, came into the room and turned the light on. saw the blood on the bed and i see him convulsing. he starts yelling at me, "get the safe. get the safe. what are you doing?

get the safe." so in a way, josh saved "gunner's" life. >> why is it that you want to have a conversation with him at this point? i mean, it's, you know, 20-plus years later. >> well, the only thing worse than what i did is not caring that i did it. i think it's important for me to take responsibility for this with him in person, that i own all of it completely. >> there's some apprehension. i know that i'm going to be eventually be face to face with christian for the first time since 1995 at the trial. i hope it's an honest dialogue. christian thinks that i had a gun, which is -- i don't know how he could come up with that scenario.

he's got to be honest. i'll give him a chance, but if he's going to be, you know, dishonest about what happened, that's not okay. ♪ new for summer. here for summer. arriving...this summer. it's bud light lemon tea. new for summer. new for summer. but their nutritional needs remain instinctual. that's why there's purina one true instinct. high protein for strong muscles. a different breed of natural nutrition. purina one true instinct. also in grain-free for dogs and cats.

here are even more reasons to join t-mobile. 1. do you like netflix? sure you do. that's why it's on us. 2. unlimited data. use as much as you want, when you want. 3. no surprises on your bill. taxes and fees included. still think you have a better deal? bring in your discount, and we'll match it. that's right. t-mobile will match your discount. we've transformed this home to show the keurig k-café brewer makes any house a coffee house. just pop that in for a coffee or brew a shot and froth milk for a latte or cappuccino. easy peasy. now she's a barista! it's so frothy. a little piece of heaven. thank you. but how's the coffee? and never leaving?

and brewed with real orange peels? the answer is yes... ...yes... and yes. ♪

and yes. [ slurps ] gwho's a good boy? it's me. me, me, me. hey guys! you're gonna want to get in on this. i know how to those guys in here. let's pause the internet on their devices. wohhh? huhhhh? [ grumbling ] all: sausages! mmm, mmmm. bon appetite. make time for what matters. pause your wifi with xfinity xfi and see the secret life of pets 2 in theaters. my first day in prison was my 21st birthday. 02/28/96.

you better be the real deal because they're going to test you. >> what was your experience being a kid? i know you had some pretty rough experiences. >> you know, when you're ashamed of yourself or you feel a sense of disconnection from other people, you can always see the kid that's where i was at because they always want to -- they always relate to the bad guy. "friday the 13th," jason, you know, "halloween," michael myers. you know, jason was, like, he came back and he destroyed all of his enemies. they now feared him. and as a kid, that kind of became my ethos. you know, i want people to walk light around me, i want them to fear me. i don't want to fear anybody ever again. i don't want to be on the ground. i was born and raised in sacramento. my mother didn't know how to deal with me as a child. she would lock me in the room and i would cry and i would cry. as soon as i could get out of the way, that was appreciated, so i would go on these little adventures, ride my bike around.

i'm about 7 years old, and i make friends with a kid in the neighborhood. he is 17. 16, 17 years old. like, he's into dungeons & dragons, all of this stuff my mom absolutely is -- an adamant christian. she's definitely not appreciating any of this stuff, you know? as a predatory person, he's conditioning me, he's conditioning me to be comfortable with him and to let my guard down with him. i was being molested by him. obviously, this isn't his first time doing this and he's like, you tell anybody about this, i'm going to cut your throat and he slaps me around and he pushes me out the window. my mom called the cops and he goes to juvenile hall for 2 1/2 months and he comes back out and now he's upset. so any time i left the house, he would chase me down, beat me up, usually in front of his friends. so every time i went to school, i had to carry a weapon.

i know one thing i don't want to be is on the victim end of anything. >> after i'd been shot, i started carrying a gun everywhere i went. i was determined that i would never be the victim again of a violent crime without being able to defend myself. in our circle of friends, if anybody ever was robbed or burnt, i was always eager to go and kick in the door and make sure that we got the stuff back. >> i was more the enforcer. i would start picking fights with these kids that i thought were bullying other kids or would look down at me or would make me feel insignificant. i would start becoming aggressive with them. the teachers feared me. students feared me. and it felt really good. >> the bullet had knocked out a tooth. the back part of my jawbone exploded so i had to get all that removed and they would give me vicodin, darvocet. i was taking pills every day. you get survivor's guilt when you realize that you, you know, you're the target of the crime

and someone who's innocent died. it weighed heavy on me and i drank and smoked a lot of pot prior to this, but afterwards, i really stepped it into overdrive. >> you're using your anger, your pain, your guns, whatever, to kind of get some sense of self-control or some sense of power back. >> really the fact is i don't even remember a lot of it because i was high on klonopin, drinking alcohol, you know, just such an intoxicated state. i was shot '94. i was 20 years old. '97, i transitioned from pills to heroin. drug habits are expensive. eventually, i walked into a bank with a ski mask on and demanded money from a federal institution. after i paroled, i was struggling to pay the bills. if someone owed me $1,500 for 2

ounces of heroin and an ounce of weed and i went to the house and confronted the guy and he ran out of the house and the guy i was with actually shot him in the leg as he was running off. and i was back in prison. ♪ >> talk to us about this cycle of violence that you see and how these healing dialogues can interrupt it. >> people that feel injured go out and hurt others. and that's what restorative justice can interrupt. until we deal with the pain in the soul, until we deal with this kind of trauma, we'll have hurt people that still have to find a release for that. and maybe not everybody's going to go out and shoot somebody, but that hurt will come out in other ways. it always does. >> christian's never coming out. >> he isn't. life without parole. >> life without possibility of parole. how do people in that situation

find themselves wanting to do this type of work? i mean, there is zero upside for him in a practical legal sense. >> right. yeah. it's pretty amazing that is the choice that christian has made, and many in prison make this choice. even though they know they are sentenced to die in prison, they come to the realization they don't want to be that person that has hurt others. they want to discover who they really were intended to be. even if christian did not have life without parole, in california, they don't allow you to use a victim/offender dialogue as part of your package for a parole hearing. so that there isn't that -- >> no incentive. >> no incentive. there would be no other reason for somebody wanting to do a healing dialogue other than to heal. >> it seems -- it's a real test for both of them because they both are pretty dug in on their version of events.

>> mmm-hmm. >> neither one seem like they're going to give an inch of that. >> yeah. >> how do you plan on dealing with that as a facilitator? >> yeah. i don't have the goal of them walking out as friends. my goal is not even that "gunner" offer forgiveness and that christian accept it. my job is to create this space for them to have a dialogue that will move them forward in their healing journey. it might not happen in one dialogue. >> you get 15 years in prison. you just got out 18 months ago. why would you willingly re-traumatize yourself to walk back into prison for anybody or anything? >> i harbored a lot of blame toward christian. just saying i'm sorry isn't a true amend. an amend is righting the wrong. so how do we do that? how do we right the wrong? >> because of my criminal thinking, i felt like he

deserved what he had gotten and i felt like he broke the honor and the integrity of what we thought was honor and integrity at the time. it's not the way i feel now. ♪ i don't keep track of regrets. and i don't add up the years. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life.

another wireless ad. great. so many of them are full of this complicated, tricky language about their network and offers and blah blah blah. look. sprint's going to do things differently. and let you decide for yourself. they're offering a new 100% total satisfaction guarantee. try it out and see the savings. if you don't love it, get your money back. see? simple. now sprint's unlimited plan comes with one of the newest phones included for just $35 a month. so switch now. for people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay.com still nervous about buying uh-oh, la new house.meone's is it that obvious? yes it is. you know, maybe you'd worry less if you got geico to help with your homeowners insurance. i didn't know geico could helps with homeowners insurance. yep, they've been doing it for years. what are you doing? big steve? thanks, man. there he is. get to know geico and see how much you could save on homeowners and renters insurance.

♪

what are your guys' plans for the rest of the semester? >> i'm super busy every day. i'm applying for a fellowship next year. >> okay. >> i came up with an idea that i'd get my associate's degree while i was locked up. i transferred to sacramento state when i got out, and that's what i did. >> and i have independent study coming up. >> who are you doing the independent study with? >> professor barajas. >> okay. >> now i work part-time at school, too, as a public outreach assistant for project rebound. project rebound is a support service for formerly incarcerated students. >> i liken it to being, like, coming out of the shadows. >> removing that mark to actually open doors for employment is huge. >> when i first got sentenced and started my time, i was pretty mad at the world. i got sober in 2006. i got a sponsor and went through this process where we look at our past, we look at our motivations, our value systems. i actually had a greater sense

of freedom than i did in the weeks prior to my incarceration when i had to put a needle in my arm just to get out of bed. >> my first cellie here was a biker, but he wasn't the type of biker that i grew up around. he was a football guy. he was a college guy. he wasn't a racist. he had had a much more well-rounded life than i'd had. he basically broke down all the ideals that i'd come to believe in and was fighting for and thought i was right in, and it's not a real way to live. how you doing, man? it's good to see you, brother. how's the programming going, man? >> ah, good. >> do you know what kind of services you're going to be doing? >> oh, for sure, military bits. >> ptsd-type stuff? >> what's up, buddy? what you doing? >> good girl. yes, you are. oh, yes, you are. >> when i got into the dog programs, it was more than i expected.

what i realized is that i feel love and concern for this animal right here, but i don't feel that way toward the other people around me, and that's a problem. you know, it made me address it, you know, so for me, that was my aha moment. you know, a lot of the programs they come into from the outside aren't catered to heal somebody. they're not really focused on rehabilitation. >> i started a restorative justice men's project, called bare bones. you confront your deepest shapes in a group setting. you address the moment where you had that epiphany that the life you were living was not working for you anymore or anyone else. >> just being able to see what a civil environment in prison looks like is a huge reward. >> dang on branscombe. >> what's up, brother? >> fortunately, unlike other prisons where you spend 90% of time in your cell, i work in the art room, we teach other people to paint. when you did it, what did you intend it to be? >> the original idea came from my relationship with my wife.

>> you painted this after you guys broke up. >> mmm-hmm. >> it's a community to me. we're allowed to be human beings in this space. >> so it's good to see you, man. >> you, too. you, too. >> how are you feeling about this? >> i think i'm prepared for it, but still, it's -- i've woken up in the middle of the night thinking about it. that's for sure. it's occupied space in my head. >> yeah. right? this is going to be a very emotional experience. >> yeah. i think a lot of questions are unanswered. you hold on to anger over that, and the whole trial process never answers those questions. they say there's closure through it, but there isn't. you know, you're left still feeling victimized. >> what makes it difficult is any time you get into this, whether you're conscious of it or not, you have to confront yourself. >> right. >> what would make me forgive the person that molested me as a child and terrorized me? like what would it take?

how is this going to happen? i don't want everybody to think this is, like, some row plant sized version of this. this stuff sucks, and it's hard. >> first -- despite forgiving, one is forgiven. one awakens to eternal life. ♪ >> i know that he still has anger in him, which means that he still has shame and fear somewhere in there relating to this and relating to me. >> if he comes into this with a false narrative, there's no justification for what they did. >> the purpose of this is to own my crime and to give him what he needs to find as much truth in the situation as he can. >> anybody going into a dialogue

with someone who did this should expect an honest response. ♪ ♪ the only thing that i won't do is agree to something i don't believe. ♪ announcer: more details incoming involving volkswagen and the growing scandal.

dissatisfied customers filing complaints against the german auto maker. ♪ because a vision softly creeping ♪ ♪ left its seeds while i was sleeping ♪ ♪ and the vision ♪ that was planted in my brain ♪ ♪ still remains ♪ within the sound of silence ♪ in restless dreams i walked alone ♪ ♪ narrow streets of cobblestone ♪ ♪ when my eyes were stabbed ♪ by the flash of a neon light ♪ ♪ that split the night ♪ and touched the sound of silence ♪ in every trip, there's room for more

than just the business you came for. ♪ let's make the most of ♪ ♪ what we've been given whether that's getting a taste of where you are... ♪ let's get to living ♪ ...or bringing some of that flavor back home. that's room for possibility. ♪ ♪ let's get to living wow. we did it. we built the fastest network for the latest iphones. and the iphone xr, with a retina display that makes everything look incredible... it's like the perfect couple - you know, the ones who look great in every picture. like the ones who always make me feel like a before photo. zoey and chris. hey guys! hey... zoey and chris! ...how fun is that? at&t has the fastestnetwork for the latest iphones. get the mind blowing iphone xr on us when you buy the latest iphone. at&t. more for your thing. that's our thing.

(burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a parking splat. fly-by ballooning. (man) don't...go...down...oh, no! aaaaaaahhhhhhhh! (burke) rooftop parking. (burke) and even a hit and drone. (driver) relax, it's just a bug. that's not a bug, that's not a bug! (burke) and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

♪ forget about everything that's happened outside of this circle. really take a moment to center ourselves. >> okay. >> so, "gunner" asked that we open up by him getting to know a little bit about the routine here. so "gunner" just wanted to know how you were doing.

>> i just want to know what your routine's like. i mean, i spent a decade and a half locked up. so i know a little bit about the daily routine. >> i would say routine is my life. i get up around 4:00 every day. i kind of meditate. sometimes i write letters. sometimes i journal. from there around 6:30, they open the door. i get out, take care of the dog, feed him. go to chow. you know, do the hustle and bustle. >> you facilitate a program that helps with inmate accountability. how long have is you been doing that for? >> that's been about a year and a half of real heavy lifting. >> okay. >> that's not a casual course. i designed it. i created it. >> "gunner," can i ask you to share how the crime impacted your life. >> i mean, first, it was my first introduction to opiates. you know, i have a bullet in my neck still. i started pain pills and then in '97, about 2 years later, 2 1/2 years later, i started smoking heroin. became a heroin addict.

you know. eventually, i robbed a bank to support that habit and ended up in federal prison. and i don't blame you entirely, but that was a pivotal moment for sure. i mean, i was a pot dealer before that, and that was part of my crime. you know, i had two marijuana priors, but, god, it sent me in a horrible direction. not only did it impact me and, of course, pat, who's no longer here, our families, your family, josh's family. >> did you carry some guilt over patrick's -- >> oh, yeah. yeah. so i don't know if you realize, but pat -- the only reason he was on my couch was because we drank that night and i told him he could crash on the couch. and he ended up getting killed. because i was, you know, selling pot and you guys decided to target me, man. this guy would be alive today if i didn't offer the couch or maybe if i wasn't selling pot or, you know -- you know. >> there's nothing that justifies me coming into your space and doing that. and nothing you could have done would have prevented that. that was -- that's mine to own.

there is nothing in this whole situation that isn't my responsibility. and you need to really feel that. >> yeah, i do. >> it's -- it's an ugly cycle, bro. it's an ugly cycle, you know. and i don't -- not many people make it out of it, man. you know, if you really look around you and you look at the people that have gone through the stuff that we've gone through and done the things that we've done, bro, they can't live with what's been done to them and can't live with themselves for doing it. >> and that was another question, like, josh was a really good friend of-mile-per-hour for of mine for a long time. i knew you and considered you a friend. otherwise i wouldn't have invited you in my home that night. i get it, you guys were on drugs. i don't know why. >> it's not the drugs. i hate it when the drugs come up. that is me who did that. >> i'm not trying to make excuses for you by any means. i know what am amphetamines can

do and psychosis. the anger. you know that beast. >> what it did, it unlocked all of my damage, bro. i was in a psychotic state and i did something that i can't take back because it was my choice to use and, therefore, it was my choice -- >> sure. >> all of those choices are ours all the time, you know, so -- >> you had never met pat beyond that night, right? >> no. >> do you remember his image at all? do you remember what he looked like? >> i do. being a visual person, i do remember -- >> yeah, he was a hippie at heart. he was an amazing musician, a guy who shined with life. he really was. he's one of these guys you look at him like, man, that guy's got something spiritual about him, you know? i wish you would have had the chance to really get to know him because maybe you would have second guessed your, you know, your decision of robbing and killing us, you know. and -- i don't remember any kind of bad blood when you and josh were at the house. >> it wasn't like that on our end. like, it was -- as we go into

this space, brother, you know, you know, this is -- this is the heavy lifting. what do you want out of this, brother? >> i just want the truth. >> you want the truth, bro? okay. so do you want to share the way that you perceive it or do you want me to say -- >> i'll tell you exactly what happened. i woke up and you were at the foot of my bed. i sat up and you pulled out a pistol and shot me twice. that quick. didn't say a word. nothing. knocked me over on my bed. i bled there for a while. i sat up in bed. hit my light. spit out a mouthful of blood. i could hear you guys in the front yard loading up the safe in my driveway. and then i went into the living room and patrick was lying on the couch and his head was kind of on an awkward angle on the armrest of the couch. so obviously what i think happened is he sat up on the

couch to you guys and you shot him and he just fell back over is what i think. unless you guys sat him down on the couch at gunpoint and executed him there. >> no, man. >> and let me just interject a little bit here because both of you know that you have different memories of that night. there's different accounts of that night. >> yeah. >> there's no reason for me to lie. i had every right to defend myself, you said i pulled out a gun. it didn't happen. the evidence is clear. i was shot through the shoulder, went through the wall right next to my bed. i fell over on the bed. there's blood all over on my bed. the two casings from the two different guns that pat was shot with were in the living room. two casings from the .32 that he shot me with were in the bedroom. so the evidence is really clear. and that's why they're convicted. >> i have shared with you that i feel like both of you believe exactly what you are remembering happened.

do you want him now to -- >> sure. i'd like to hear your version. >> this is what i did. ♪ new for summer. here for summer. arriving...this summer. it's bud light lemon tea. new for summer. new for summer. here are even more reasons to join t-mobile. 1. do you like netflix? sure you do. that's why it's on us. 2. unlimited data. use as much as you want, when you want. 3. no surprises on your bill. taxes and fees included. still think you have a better deal? bring in your discount, and we'll match it. that's right. t-mobile will match your discount.

we've transformed this home to show the keurig k-café brewer makes any house a coffee house. just pop that in for a coffee or brew a shot and froth milk for a latte or cappuccino. easy peasy. now she's a barista! it's so frothy. a little piece of heaven. thank you. but how's the coffee?

and never leaving? and brewed with real orange peels? the answer is yes... ...yes... and yes. ♪

♪

this is what i did. we had a plan. our intention was to take both of your lives and then take your stuff. >> how did you get in the house? >> patrick let us in the house. >> really? >> we knocked on the door and patrick let us in. he went back to the couch and he laid back down. i went into your room and you had woken up. you had the gun in your hand and you looked at me and realized it was me and because i'm your friend, you put it back down. as soon as you leaned back, you rested yourself back like this and that's when i shot you. i shot you in your arm pit. you rolled over to the side and i thought i hit you. at that point the gunshot goes off in the other room. josh starts running through the house, yelling. i almost think he's gotten shot.

instead of focusing on you, i dart out there and as soon as i see patrick getting up off the couch, i shot him. and he dropped immediately. i hear a gunshot in your room. i see the flash. i walk into your room coming back into it. you are sitting at the edge of your bed and you have the gun in your hand like this. and you raise it off and pull the trigger and it doesn't go off. i shot at you three times and hit you twice. you were unconscious on the bed when you fell back. i put gun on your chest and i was going to pull the trigger again. josh came in and turned on the light and freaked out. get the safe! get the safe. get the safe. i got distracted. i grabbed your mac 10 off the bed and money off of the dresser and i ran out to the car and i came back in and started picking up the safe and left out of the house with the safe.

that's exactly what happened that night. >> wow. yeah, i have no memory other than sitting up and getting shot. >> that moment lingers in my mind, brother. >> sure. >> it lingers in my spirit. >> right. >> so there's no saving face in this, brother. you know, it is what it is, and it's ugly shit, and i feel awful about patrick's life. i feel awful that i hurt you. it's just the betrayal and it's an awful thing to do to somebody, brother. i genuinely am sorry and that's the truth. that's what happened that night, brother. >> i just remember sitting up and seeing you there, and then wham, i didn't even know. if that's what happened, it's completely gone from my memory. >>, you know, i was shot.

it was like getting hit by a boxer in the sweet spot. >> you were unconscious. >> it knocked me out. >> you were not expecting the first round. >> yeah. >> in that moment, brother, you couldn't have been any more courageous than to sit up and defend your friend's life and defend your life. >> i have no memory of it. >> you did, brother. you had heart in that situation and want you to know that. i want you to know that you stood up for patrick. you weren't there for that moment, brother, and as soon as i got to slowing down, when i understood you believed what you were saying, all these years i thought that account was given to help the d.a. convict me or something. i really didn't understand that you believed that. . >> yeah. >> so i'm just grateful that you understand what really happened that night and i'm sorry i put you in that moment. >> thank you. >> i took patrick's life and he was obviously an amazing person. >> he was.

>> trust me when i say that it lingers in my. >> i know it did. >> i know it does. >> he was a special person. >> he was. >> and to see what kind of person you are today, it just reminds me of the potential of his life that he could have had, too. to know that it's not here because of me. >> thank you. give yourself credit. you have done a lot of work. and cotton beat yourself up with the guilt. let it go, man. you shouldn't be defined by that act as a 19-year-old kid on drugs. >> my hope is that that guilt that you carry, it gets easier. i know you carry it. i still do a lot of the stuff that i made amends for. and actually received forgiveness like we are now. i still carry a little bit of that guilt.

>> i'm not sure if i even want it to go away, brother. i feel like patrick deserves that. that's part of it. that's part of it, bro. i feel those things for him and i know that his family feels those things, too. you know you feel those things. so a lot of it for me is knowing that as you have peace and i see this well being and the fact that you are sitting in this room, you know, that part does heal me, brother. that part does give me peace and i appreciate that. >> yeah. i'm proud of you and the work you did. i know it's not easy. it's like swimming upstream. >> it is sometimes. >> i know how it is. i'm amazed that i'm in here. you know what i mean? >> me too. it must be nice come in and go. >> yeah, it hasn't happened yet, though.

>> do the good work, all right? >> stay in touch for sure. >> basically you are looking at two olympic-level performances in terms of this human potential. you see somebody say we were kids. let it go. i mean, i think there's not a person in the world that can't take inspiration from that. i have people who i won't speak to from high school. over stuff. i can't remember what it was. you live with that for 20 or 30 years. we don't have to live that way. this just shows you what's possible.

this is jared steven leone. he is 18 and in city hall in beaverton, oregon. according to him, he's high on mushrooms. so he starts a fight with some cops. they all wrestle and jared grabs a cop's gun and shoots it. more cops jump in. it ends up taking seven cops two full minutes to restrain jared and he makes it out alive! this is white privilege. if that idea bothers you, let's call it benefit of the doubt. those cops give him the benefit of the doubt that his life matters. that his life is worth saving. even when he takes one of their guns and shoots it.