tocounts to be popular ♪ ♪ >> there's a show tune for everything. in my opinion. the president would actually love "wicked." it's a total cash cow. it may be difficult for someone to really absorb this but not everything is a popularity contest. regardless of the polls, the raw vote count, he's the commander in chief. he's got veto power and he's still very popular among his supporters and here on the ridiculist. news continues when i hand it over to chris. chris? >> i'm chris cuomo and welcome to "primetime." the first debates are coming this week. the democrats are unloading their big ideas and senator bernie sanders is burning up twitter. free college for all and wiping out all student loan debt in america. time to test the why and most importantly the how with sanders' campaign manager.

and, should the president shake up his 2020 ticket? how about with nikki haley? could the former ambassador be the ticket to a second term. the way the idea is being fed out into the media maybe someone is thinking about it. what do we do? plus/minus on the move with our wizard of odds. and now reaction to perhaps the most serious allegation to be brought against him to date. e. jean carroll confuses him of rape. period. and his response, you need to hear it. so what do you say. let's get after it. most democratic candidates would say they want to make college more affordable, free for everyone, ambitious. wiping out existing student loan debt entirely, that puts bernie sanders in a league of his own. >> we should not be punishing

people for getting a higher education. all student debt would be canceled in six months. if you can bail out wall street, we can bail out the middle class of this country. >> mid to low estimates put the cost at $1.6 trillion, with a "t." that would be more than a third of the amount of money the federal government spent in all of last year. sanders argues it will help our economy. will it fly with voters? let's bring in the head of his campaign. nice to meet you. good to have you. >> thank you for having me. >> one step on horse race and let's get into the policy. elizabeth warren is moving. when i spoke to the senator last week, senator sanders, he said, look, i think there are some people with an appetite for electing a woman. do you think it's about gender or do you think she's beating him at his own game with progressive ideas?

>> chris, it's your job to ask questions. i'm not going to urge you not to ask the questions. but as a campaign manager i'll tell you that each of them really adores one another. they've been fighting in the trenches for many of the same causes for much of their lives, fighting for working families and i know that it is not normal for the course of a presidential campaign to say nice things about one another and to believe that one another is actually not a terrible human being. but it is true that bernie sanders likes elizabeth warren. i think the feeling is mutual. so this campaign is truly about trying to make the case for why bernie sanders, not about denigrating or trying to suggest she's not a good candidate. >> i'm not asking you to dump on elizabeth warren. i'm asking is it something that you're looking at to figure out why is she moving when you guys occupy the same space? >> i appreciate there's a lot of things moving. i think it's still early in this cycle. most people haven't dialed into this election. we're about to start the next six months of the year where things are going to get very intense. the debates start in a couple days from now. that's when i think voters will

start to get more interested and at that point in time, i bet you there are going to be a lot more peaks and valleys to come. so i just think it's super early to make any judgments and determinations. >> i'll give you a pass. we'll do it again in six months. >> thank you. i'll still be here. >> let's talk about the big idea of the moment. forget about free college for everybody, that's ambitious enough. i'm also going to wipe out all of the debt to date. very big. too big. too expensive. too ambitious. defend. >> chris, there's a crisis going on and most people in the elite world don't see it. the crisis is afflicting working families all over america. if you think about the fact that people in this generation are going to have a worse standard of living than their parents, that's a sense of fear. as a parent to think that my child might have a worse life than me is a crisis. and one of the reasons for that is because we have shackled the current generation and future

generations with inordinate college debt that they can never leave behind. >> is the solution as good as the problem? >> say that again. >> is the solution as troubling as the problem? you're going to have the country pay for people who may have gone to college when you couldn't go, not you specifically, i'm saying people in the middle class, a lot of them don't go, now you're asking them to subsidize people who did go and pay off their debt when they didn't get to go. is that fair? >> we have to recognize that we have a broken system that needs fundamental repair and reform and it has to start with level setting and alleviating and cancelling all student debt. that's the only way we can rescue the middle class. the working families need this. we saved wall street. we came in and bailed them out. here the middle class is calling for a life boat. i don't think you can do this in a piecemeal fashion.

you need to have universality. just like with social security and medicare. we need to do that with college debt. >> is it two wrongs making a right? we bailed out wall street arguably. the senators thinks we did it in the wrong way, so does elizabeth warren. is this also a wrong? the loans for the government, it's their biggest asset on their balance sheet. not only would you be forgiving the debt, you would be taking away the largest asset of the united states government. >> i hope you sense my frustration about this question because when donald trump passed a corporate tax cut, do you know how much that cost? do people even know? >> a ton. >> over $2 trillion over ten years and then by the way, when we saved wall street, how much did that cost? tens of trillions of dollars. and now we're talking about $1.6 trillion to alleviate student debt and all of a sudden -- >> because they're all troubling. what they did with the wall street bailout.

there was a justification. with the president with his tax plan, there was a justification argument and now you're trying to do something ambitious, but you got to justify it. >> and you're paying for this, so i hope you'll appreciate this. we're paying for it with a 0.5% tax on high frequency financial trading. after having bailed out wall street, can we ask them for a 0.5% tax on stocks so we can make college affordable for everybody, so we can unshackle the future generations with the debt that is hanging around them? depriving them from being free? i think we can do that. >> why give it to all of them? elizabeth warren has a stepped plan that takes into consideration income and wealth. why do it that way? you want to help the middle class, help them. don't do it for everybody. >> it needs to be universal because there's an anchor around the entire country.

we have to fundamentally reform the system. if you go about looking at some of these data points, you'll see it inordinately affects women, it has great racial disparity within the student debt numbers. and i think in order to address this holistically, you have to start from scratch and start to build a system that works that gives people the chance to succeed, have a better future for themselves and families. this thing is crushing the current generation of americans and we have to deal with it with the seriousness of purpose and treat it like the crisis that it is. >> if i did not agree with you about the problem, i would not talk about it on the show. thank you very much for giving me the campaign's perspective on this. as we learn more, as more issues come up, please come back on the show and let's get after it. >> yes, sir. >> all right, be well. good luck to you going forward. all right, so what do you think of those ideas? let me know on twitter, please. so, another question for you tonight, would you be more

inclined to vote for this president if there were a woman on his ticket? how about nikki haley? former governor of south carolina, ambassador to the u.n. that's being leaked out here and it's not the first time. i wonder why. we have our very own wizard of oz with the plus/minus potential, next. biopharmaceutical researchers. pursuing life-changing cures

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that was important. in 2018, he stunk up the house, that was important. how does this work? plus/minus. >> this is the suburban vote in the 2016 election. trump won in the suburbs by five points over hillary clinton. in any swing states, there are a ton of suburbs. jump forward to the midterm election in 2018, obviously republicans lost the house. what happened? trump's approval rating in the suburbs was only 46%. that seven-point difference was similar to what occurred nationwide. republicans losing the house vote. >> and you see man/woman being relevant here. >> this is relevant. look at the 2018 vote among women. 53% democrat, 45% republican. take a look at trump's standing among the same voters. only 42% approve. 57% disapprove. that is a huge, huge gap. what i should point out is obviously we've had the new sexual assault allegation over

the last few days. >> e. jean carroll, the most serious allegation we've heard against this president. without question. it's a rape allegation. >> exactly right. >> these numbers do not take that into account. >> but will they? i know you look at numbers. but i've never seen anything -- it's the focus of the closing tonight. me and the team, we're equally confused by this. she is credible. there are going to be points of corroboration that are stronger and weaker, but it's not getting the kind of play they did earlier. have we accepted this is who he is? >> donald trump has had one of the largest gender gaps, look at the exit polls. clinton won among women by 13 points, trump won among men by 11 points. that's the largest gap ever recorded in an exit poll dating

back to the '50s. look at this, the vote for the house in 2018, what do we see here? among win, democrats won by 19 points. men, four points. there's a lot of polarization going on right now. but what i should say is that these numbers do indicate -- >> he's already historically has it baked into his number that women have a fundamental problem. the question becomes, why don't men echo women's problems with these allegations? >> that is exactly a great question. we will see obviously how this latest allegation plays into it. but so far, women are treating this president differently than they've treated other republican presidents in the past. >> not just any woman. it's almost always nikki haley when it comes to me. why her, what could she mean? >> i think the reason you hear her name so frequently is she is one of the highest powered republican women in politics. this was her approval rating among the entire electorate when she was leaving office, 63% approve of the job she was doing. 17% disapprove. compare that to the president of

the united states, only 42% approve and 53% disapprove. if there's a potential politician out there who could raise his numbers overall with the electorate, it could be nikki haley. >> and he worked with him and survived, so there's a relationship. it's not as big and unknown of how they'll mix. what about her and pence? >> this is a key point. look how much more popular she is than mike pence is among the overall electorate. mike pence sports a 42% approval rating. she's got 63% approval. there's one thing, though, i should point out, chris, is i think the president's problems are deeper than making a switch. the reason i say that, we're always voting for the top of the ticket. we're not necessarily voting for the vp. just switching out the second spot doesn't solve the problems of the top spot. and remember hillary clinton when she left as secretary of state, her numbers were sky-high and all of a sudden you got involved in the campaign and her numbers fell. how artificially high are these

numbers? >> what would nikki haley say about these allegations? like e. jean carrolls? how would she keep the respect of woman, and balance that out with the president? well done. thank you very much. appreciate it as always. harry enten. wizard of oz. you heard us talking, the latest accuser of this president has brought the most serious allegation and some strong corroboration. she told two friends who were journalists when this allegedly happened many years ago. so why isn't it resonating more? ripe for a great debate, next. people, our sales now apply to only 10 frames. a new low! at visionworks, our sales are good on over 500 frames. why are you so weird? see great with 2 complete pairs for $59. really. visionworks. see the difference. whoa. travis in it made it.

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yet another denial from the president in the face of a new assault claim, this one from e. jean carroll, journalist. he, according to her, raped her. his response, as consistent as it is confounding. here's the quote, i'll say it with great respect. number one, she's not my type. number two, it never happened. never happened. okay? carroll says this president raped her inside a bergdorf goodman dressing room 23 years ago, more or less. she was on cnn just last hour with anderson and reacted to the president's response. >> i love that i'm not his type. don't you love that you're not his type. he also called miss universe fat. miss big -- piggy, i think he called her. >> let's be clear about one thing, there's no need for attraction when it comes to

rape. it's about power. it's not about sex. the answer is not an intelligent one that someone is not your type. if nothing else, it would imply you of a standard where it would be okay. this is a very heavy allegation. but there's not been a heavy implication to this point. what does that mean? let's bring in our guests. i think we all agree at this point, this has been unusually underplayed. first of all, alexandra, welcome to the show. good to have you. a heavy topic to start with. but the idea of this is the heaviest allegation to date of this president, a rape, no qualification on that, yet it is not dominating the perspective on him of coverage. why? >> not only is this the most serious allegation since him taking office, it's also the 16th time a woman has come forward to put forward an accusation of sexual misconduct by the president. there are millions of young

women and little girls right now who are watching their government fail them, failing to hold the person in the highest level of power in this country accountable. so i think the important thing to remember right now is it's not the millions of american people that are disappointed in the way that we're responding. it's on congress, the only body capable in the united states government right now to hold the president accountable. and we haven't seen them doing that. >> look at what we don't see, karen, we don't see his opponents on the democrat side using this as their banner which you would expect if it were anyone else. god forbid somebody wins this next election that's not named donald trump, and something like this comes out about him or her. imagine how dominant it would be. but they're not yelling and

screaming about it. you're not hearing about it in congress. you're hearing about it in the media, but not the way we used to, why? >> well, look, i think there are a couple of things here, chris. let's talk about what's happening in our culture to the point where you just made about trump's response and saying she's not my type. obviously it's about power, it's not about looks. but there's still a stereotype, there are still people in this country who think that it's about sex and it's about sexual attraction and not just power. and so -- and to some degree, that's how we got to locker room talk when we had the "access hollywood" tape come out. and it's incredibly hard for women to come forward in this country against powerful men. you know that. >> against any men, especially powerful men. >> i've worked with a number of women who, their lives are destroyed, their credibility is questioned. not the man. specifically to trump, i think there are a couple of things. number one, i agree, who's going to hold them accountable? certainly republicans have never held him accountable for anything. >> you saw the numbers with harry enten, it's pretty much

baked in for him. women who aren't going to be with him, they're gone already. >> that's true and not true because we've seen -- i will tell you that we still -- we saw a couple things. from 2016 to 2018 we did see movement away. it's white suburban women, white college-educated women and white noncollege-educated women. and we did see more younger women come out. if those numbers continue, hopefully the way that we'll have our voices heard is in the election. >> right. >> but there should be more of an outcry right now. but i think it doesn't just speak to trump, i think it speaks to what's happening in our culture. we didn't have an outcry in 2016 when we realized -- or 2017 that sexism and misogyny and racism were factors in why people -- in fear of change was part of why people supported donald trump. >> i guess it's surprising to me that with #metoo as a movement,

and, yes, there will be arguments about whether things went too far. it's just odd that after all that, here we are with the most serious thing we've ever heard and it is not exploding the way earlier accounts have. but i don't want to dominate on the time on the negative. there's a woman who's making headlines right now and they -- i'm good -- i'm glad for e. jean carroll to be out there telling her story. but i want to look at senator warren. you guys are not claimed yet in terms of this race. nobody has endorsed anybody. she's making a move on bernie sanders. the campaign can deflect, that's their job. the senator said some people want a woman. do you think warren is making a gender move on him or do you think she's beating him at his game of selling those progressive policies. >> i know i might annoy you a little bit, but i think it's natural that for whatever reason we want to pit bernie sanders and elizabeth warren against each other. but the reality is we have two progressive candidates that are basically front-runners that are dominating the political cycle right now.

that is a complete 180 turn from what it was like back in 2016. i think that's what's important. to quote elizabeth warren, the time of small ideas is over. big ideas are what's going to dominate. the differences between bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, we are going to have the next six months to be able to debate and we're going to have a debate coming up in the next few days. but the fact that elizabeth warren is on the rise in the polls is showing that americans are hungry for solutions as big as the problems we face. if we remember back in 2016, a lot of the people that we needed to turn out stayed home, that's young people, young women of color, people of color and union households. that's the most important thing for us to remember now. >> biden is leading for a reason. i don't think it's just name recognition at this point. but look at what sanders did today. he upped the ante, free college, getting rid of college tuition for everybody.

not just people in the middle class. really expensive stuff. while it does go to the big idea, it goes to the right's big knock on the left. which is tax and spend. >> absolutely. and i think there's some of us that are not so sure -- and i think you pressed that point, if you are able to afford college, maybe you shouldn't get a free pass. i want to talk about elizabeth warren a little bit because i think it's important, having worked with many women candidates running for executive office which is still the highest ceiling for women because in terms of how we value women's leadership, we don't always value that we're more collaborative, we're more interested in trying to get to solution orientation and so i think it's a positive to see elizabeth doing so well. and rather than questioning her, which i'm not saying you're doing. some are acting surprised that a woman almost could be doing so well, we have more women running this time than ever before.

i think the more we normalize the idea that a woman could be president and these women are running, we'll have more women on the debate stages this week than we've ever seen before. that's a positive and that helps to change the way we think about women and women's leadership and our capabilities and i think it means people are able to hear elizabeth warren's ideas for what they are and not just get -- have the -- her gender lost in the sort of create static in the channel. >> she's the first one to get a buzz phrase, there's a plan for that. and it was senator sanders saying she's making a move because people want a woman. i think she's playing the game of progressive ideas better than everybody else in the field right now. great to have you on the show, look forward to having you again. thank you. tonight we got something special and different. do you remember this moment at the grammys? remember this? the pumped up stunner rocking the piano alongside cardi b?

she's now blowing up the charts with her own music. very cool. why here on cuomo "primetime"? because ms. chloe flower has been fighting human trafficking longer than her music career. and she has some insights into her success, how she can use it in some of the realities at the border. you try hard, you eat right... mostly. you make time... when you can. but sometimes life gets in the way, and that stubborn fat just won't go away. coolsculpting takes you further. a non-surgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells, for good. discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. some common side-effects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling.

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♪ [ cheers and applause ] you remember that? what a moment at the grammys, powerhouse pianist chloe flower stole the show. she opened the song "money" with cardi b. now she's got her own music video, her latest single "get what you get" shot to the top of the chart but it's a crossover into hip-hop. all over the nation, they're taking up piano.

she wants to use that gift for good. and use fame to also fight human trafficking. she's been doing it for years and she has perspective on the southern border. chloe flower joins me now. what a pleasure. i'm so happy for your success. >> thank you very much. >> what unusual things. did i get any of it wrong, first of all? >> no. that but perfect. >> around the country, kids, either they play or don't play, but they want to play an instrument even though they're into hip-hop. >> and i don't think they have access to knowing they can play an instrument, that there is a keyboard. they can't want to do something that they can't see. so the grammys was a perfect opportunity for that. >> do you have any idea it was going to go like that? >> the creative director, she showed me the stage setup when i got there. so i was like, i'm in the center there and i have three solos. i wrote my three solos and they were in there. i thought maybe it will take off, maybe not. >> help us understand, classical

music, maybe sampling at some point. when you went to some of the big names and said, i can compose, i can produce within hip-hop, even though it's classical, what made them believe? >> i'm not sure, actually. babyface has been a longtime supporter. so i signed with him nine years ago. and he really has shaped the way i write music. i don't think that i would have been able to perform at the grammys or been able to have that kind of production repertoire had i not been around him. >> when did you realize that -- not just that it would work. we were talking before we started the segment, i don't know the last time that an instrumental version of music wound up blowing up the regular chart like that with no lyrics. >> i know.

>> but the idea for you of dovetailing it with your passion, which you've been doing longer than the production stuff which is i want kids to understand the power of music. >> yeah, definitely. it started out separate. i worked in music education and music therapy for a very long time and i worked in anti-human trafficking since 2006. it wasn't until i started partnering with the u.n. that i realized that music education is a tool of prevention against human trafficking. that's a double whammy. >> that's how we became friends was talking about what was going on. and to be fair, when we were looking at the caravans then, you were saying, this is an opportunity for human traffickers. they're going to get a double benefit here because these people aren't going to get in so they're going to get paid to give them false hope. and now the human trafficking aspect of this border, this is about people, that's being ignored. they're recycling kids, they're abusing kids. >> yeah.

the one thing about human trafficking that differs from drug trafficking is a human can be used over and over and over again. a drug used once is gone. so you have a group of people who are looking for safety and they're being taken advantage of. and then even if they're not subjected to human trafficking on the way in, they're put in an environment that's ripe for human traffickers, once they leave, to swoop them up and take them into the industry. and so that whole situation on the border is, you know -- it's -- to me it's refugees. i think there are a lot of refugees there and we can't vilify migration. we have to -- rather than dehumanizing them further, we have to create an environment that's safe for them. and it's not about politics. we have to put the human rights issue first over politics. >> right now they are being used again because they are political football and right and left are fighting and blaming and doing

nothing in a way i've never seen with an american crisis. i've never seen international organizations on our own border dealing with a situation. i think there's a profound embarrassment in that. we cover it all the time. now you see solution in music. and your album is about empowerment and freedom. how so? what do you want to come through in the music before i play your single? >> all of my music has been inspired by my work in anti-human trafficking. and because it doesn't have lyrics, it can mean something different to each person. but what i hoped for in this song is that -- it's a song of empowerment and inspiration because, you know, i think that we need -- we're having a spiritual crisis and i think we need music that's inspiring and powerful. for kids and for adults. >> so this is called? >> "get what you get." >> let's listen. ♪

>> look, how rare -- and i hope you enjoy the moment. i hope not just the fanfare, it's great, but for passion and purpose to come together and to create success on that, what a trifecta for you and i hope it works, i hope kids are inspired and i hope you get the chance to use the platform to talk about these other issues that matter because you know what you're talking about. you're not a celebrity who jumped into the game. you've been doing this a long time. >> we have. >> i wish it wasn't on our border. where the kids and issues are being ignored. we are better than this. you represent the best of us. >> thank you. >> chloe flower, i am so excited about what is to come. congratulations. give me a quick plug. where can we get your album? >> itunes, youtube, everywhere.

every major digital streaming platform. >> "get what you get" is the single. an airline passenger feeling pretty good. getting the whole row to yourself. but what's more rare, finding out you have the whole plane to yourself. everyone is gone. i've had this dream. and now we'll talk about it with d. lemon, next. staining be done... and stay done through every season. behr semi-transparent stain, overall #1 rated. stay done for years to come. find it exclusively at the home depot. what sore muscles? what with advpounding head? ..

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imagine this, you're on the plane, you buckle up, you doze off. we all do that. then you wake up and you're still on the plane, you're alone, it's dark and cold. this happened. air canada is trying to figure out how a passenger wound up that way. and they better figure out how to cut a check too. that's my suspicion. the passenger is named tiffany o'brien. she flew from quebec city to toronto. she wakes up, cell phone is dead. she's wandering the cabin in the dark. she gets to the cockpit, there's no power. she finds a flashlight. she's alone in the plane. and finds the door, figures out how to open it. the plane is so far from the

gate that she's 40, 50 feet up. she's trapped. she has to wave and scream until a crew member finds her. d. lemon. she lived the nightmare. we've talked about it. it actually happened in houston some years ago. it's really rare and messed up. >> it's not the first time. i was just going to say, you know, there's got to be a movie about this. can you imagine that, and you think, well, she can get off the plane, but it's 50 to 60 feet to the ground. >> the first step is a doozy. >> so listen, thank goodness for that luggage cart person who saved her. she would have been there all night. her phone died. >> still had to climb down on a ladder. >> she didn't know -- that plane could have been out of service for days. >> how does that happen? they say we have a -- >> she had a row to herself. i know how it happened, but i would imagine she, i don't know,

she maybe was laying down and they were looking at heads. i don't know -- >> she was still buckled in, she says. they say this shouldn't have happened. we have a system for that. that's good to know except that it did happen and now they got to figure it out. and you know there's a price tag coming with this. >> part of the thing says she's been -- >> ten days, can't sleep. >> she's been told not to comment on advice of i think her representatives or counsel. >> she said she had pre-existing anxiety, and is still having night terrors. >> she slept pretty well that time. >> yeah. that's right. >> i'm just saying. so, listen, i know how you are very passionate about things that's happening at the border, right, you know about those 249 children living in horrible conditions. we have a member of the team that went down and sounded the alarms about those children and now those children are being moved to other facilities and so she's going to join us to tell us about what she saw and how

she feels about it, at least helping and bringing light to this particular situation. >> strong. did you see chloe flower on the show? >> i saw her as i was walking to talk to you. but i didn't see the entire interview. >> what about it? >> she's amazing. her music -- >> i was talking about the border -- >> she's been doing that for a long time. i just saw this great dovetail, she's trying to inspire people since her cardi b moment and she knows about human trafficking in a big way, she's been working with the u.n. and she goes that's what's being missed on that border. this is about people in crisis, not a political football. who would have thought we would have american international agencies dealing with this situation on our border. >> as many of the people who are on the border dealing with those horrific stories and conditions, that's as many stories -- there's as many stories as there are people in that particular situation. and more is going to come to light. >> we had her on to broaden the

appeal of this woman who understands the issue and she's empowering kids with music and she's trying to also empower those kinds of kids who are susceptible to trafficking so they never enter the supply chain. they have their own reason to exist so they don't find their way into that kind of desperation. she's a really special young person. >> good for her. she's a better person than you and i both put together. >> on our best day. >> listen, why couldn't you fall asleep on a plane? i don't know what happened to him. >> nice. >> he fell asleep on the plane. >> nice. >> and i haven't seen him since. >> well, look, i got my own problems. i can't even sleep through the night. >> yeah, i know. we don't want to tell that story. >> it's all right. i fell trying to go to the bathroom. >> you tripped over the dog. don't blame it on the dog. >> i can't believe i didn't break my nose. the makeup people are amazing. >> this is nothing. what we cover up on don every night. >> show them the picture you texted many earlier this morning about your fiasco. >> i can't live in the house of shame.

>> get out of here. >> i'll see you in a little bit. >> bye. all right. back to the serious. let's be honest, we are living through some very bizarre times. confusing. disconsenioriti disconcerting when a rape allegation, not forced kissing. that's bad enough. this is rape. doesn't seem to move the needle on a sitting president. now, is that okay? if so, why? if not, then how did we get here? we have never wrestled with a topic on this show more about whether to argue it and how. you'll see what we came to next. fit me! foundation from maybelline new york. fits skin tone and texture. in 2 finishes: matte and poreless and dewy and smooth. 64 fits. ♪ fit me! foundation. only from maybelline new york. available at walmart.

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so, the closing argument is always a product of group think here. it involves men and women. tonight we were all confused about the same situation. this prominent journalist accuses the sitting president of rape. this is the most extreme accusation we've had against this president and it has had almost no impact, really, on our dialogue. you know, people talk to me about the show all the time.

thank you for that. online, in the street, on the radio. they have yet to bring this up in any real way. the journalist, the accuser is e. jean carroll. the moment the dressing room door closed, he lungs at me and pushes me against the wall. hitting my head quite badly. he seizes both my arms and pushes me up against the wall. he opens his overcut, unzips his pants and forcing his fingers against my private area, he thrusts his penis halfway or completely, i'm not certain, inside me. don't be bother by what i say. what it means or not. this is rape. period. carroll doesn't like using the word and that's her right. when the account came out in "new york" magazine we didn't run with the story because we needed our own corroboration and that is right. we got it from one of the

journalist that carroll told about the rape. who are her friends at the time it happened. yes, we should get both of the sources. it would be better if their names were out there. clarity helps with closure. people who say they're victims should be believed. and you have to know that women don't come forward often. and for good and painful reason. look at what's happening with her. we see women get dragged through this process all the time. but there also must be vetting. in a court of law there must be more. proof. such that no other reckoning of the case makes as much sense as the victim's story. and the court of public opinion. that must also hold true. and i know that makes people uncomfortable. if you believe her why do you have to corroborate? if you can't prove it, why should anyone believe it? we are definitely still search for a standard of how to process these, but this morning, ms. carroll said something that was equally troubling. here it is. >> he denies it. he turns it around. he attacks and threatens. that is the -- and everybody

forgets it and the next woman comes along and i'm sick of it. i am -- alison, i am sick of it. think how many women have come forward, nothing happens. >> now, the numbers are compelling, but also is the president's response. it shows how perverse this current dynamic is. he's accused with rape, okay? and he says this, "i say it with great respect, number one, she's not my type. number two, it never happened. it never happened, okay?" sounds familiar, right? it's the same thing he said about jessica leeds, one of more than a dozen women who accused this president of some sort of sexual misconduct. >> she would not be my first choice, that i can tell you. man. you don't know. that would not be my first choice. >> "the washington post" reports the same was said about stormy daniels, not the type of woman he finds attractive. now, first, look, this is not a smart answer to the question of

whether you would rape someone. finding someone attractive is not a precondition to sexual assault. sexual assault is about power and violence not just sex. more troubling to me in understanding where we are, more vexing is that if people are so appalled by this president's nonchalance and the wild number of women who say they were attacked or assaulted or in this case raped, why isn't this most serious account to date, when others were covered in large ways, why is this not front page news everywhere? what does that fatigue say about us? the executive editor on "the new york times" said his paper made a mistake. "we were overly cautious. the, in fact, that a well-known person was making a very public allegation against a sitting president should have compelled us to play it bigger." now over at "the new york post," you had the opposite. former top editor turned adviser who supports trump ordered the paper to remove a story about

the allegations, and that's wrong, but i'm not even sure this president needs the help. as he says -- >> i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? >> no, not okay. post-me too, what matters to us? i guess the question really is, what does not matter to us? is it really just about this president? is he the teflon don? and if so, what does that say about where we are and what we're about? i think we've seen enough of this now to know the questions. the confusing part is what are our answers? do me a favor and let me know. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with d. lemon starts right now. always quick with an answer. >> well, listen, i'm just -- this isn't -- i'm not speaking for me, i'm just saying where we are because this is -- these things similar were part of a dinner conversation that