hey, i'm brian stelter. time for "reliable sources." this is a weekly look at the story behind the story, how the media really works, how the news gets made and how all of us can make it better. the press was on president trump's mind as he made this step in north korea hours ago. and we'll get into all that and fresh off the democratic debate stage, ohio congressman tim rue ryan is here, to talk about the death of his local newspaper, closing after 150 years. and later, e. jean carroll

is speaking about the impact of this magazine cover and why she chose this time now to come forward against donald trump. but first, the state of the democratic race is summed up in a front page this morning -- this is on the cover of "the new york times." kamala harris stridently comfortably on to the stage, symbolizing her momentum. despite the technical glitches on night one, income's second night of the democratic primary debates brought a record setting audience. more than 18 million viewers. that is a record in terms of democratic debates in history. 18.1 million viewers. that tops the cnn debate with hillary clinton and bernie sanders from 2015. now, of course this is setting the bar very high for the debates to come. it shows that americans are tuned in, they are already enormously interested in the field of democratic candidates that want to take on president trump. so this is an attention primary. that's what vice called it the

other day, saying harris won the media attention. is that what we're going through right now? in a moment i'll bring in the panel and talk about that. but first, let's talk to ian sams. let's talk about the debates. do you buy into the attention primary that the candidate with the most media attention ultimately prevails? >> look, i think it's about how do you cut through to get to the american people. and what she did on thursday night really cut through. she did it by being personal. and telling her story. and connecting why her ideas and her policies are directly impactful to americans. this isn't about an ideological debate or academic discussion, but how the tangible benefits of her ideas will touch people. it's about her personal story. when she talked about being that little girl and we showed people

who that little girl was and we showed the human impacts of the policies that were passed in d.c. when she was growing up, that's immediately translatable to now. that's translatable to now and that's why when she talks about things like immigration, she talks about the stories of the mothers bringing their children to this country. it's not -- >> what is her position about busing now? what's her position today about busing? >> she supports it. >> she supports it. there was some criticism from political insiders saying that that moment at the debate was planned, it was staged. do you think that matters? do you think viewers care? >> look, ever since the comments that vice president biden made, this has been weighing on her mind. because it's personal to her. this has to do with how she was raised and how she got ahead and how she got a good education. look, this was all kamala harris, period. it speaks to a deeper truth. it wasn't just about her. it was about the thousands or millions of children across this country who are seeking to get a better education and having equal access to education. she was speaking for them. i think that matters. >> let's look at the google search results since the debates ended on thursday night. of the 20 candidates up there,

your candidate is number one, she's the most searched about since the debates. mariane williams is number two, joe biden number three. how do you sustain that momentum? >> people like you and i are following this every moment and micromove in this race. >> right. >> but most people aren't. there was an a.p. poll last week that showed 22% of people know very little -- or know a lot about the positions of the candidates. two-thirds of people are barely paying attention. so on thursday night, 18 million people tuned in and keep in mind, only 30 million people voted in the democratic primary in 2016. just to show -- >> that's a very interesting pact. by the way, that doesn't count youtube or facebook or the coverage afterwards. are you surprised the numbers are as high as they were? >> absolutely not. i think people are excited an ready to get donald trump out of office and they want to see their options. we saw this as a huge opportunity to introduce her to the american electorate in a way that was personal and relevant to them and she hit it out of

the park. >> during one of these debates, donald trump jr. retweeted and then deleted a tweet that was questioning senator harris' blackness. this is an attempt to try to play the birther card on your candidate, on your boss. we have seen other 2020 candidates come to harris' defense, but what is the campaign's reaction to this online chatter trying to smear her in this way? >> look, these are the same racist attacks as daddy tried on barack obama and they didn't work them and they won't work now, period. we really appreciate all the other candidates who are speaking up about this because it will take all of us speaking up and speaking out to confront the misinformation, to confront the smears and the racist attacks that this president's allies are going to promote on her. they have nothing else on her. this is what they'll do. they'll try to use lies and misinformation to attack her and bring her down. it will take all of us say it won't work. we saw this four years ago and

it's very upsetting it's still going on today, but there's a more awareness about it. so when we speak up about it it saturates and makes people see it for what it is, a racist lie. >> thank you. i want to bring in the panel now. "new york times" white house correspondent katie rogers is here. from the opinion side of the times, frank bruni and contributor bianna golodryga. you wrote about this smear about harris the other day. you had a story about it. there's an argument to be made, writing about the trash on the internet we give it more attention and oxygen and amplifying it in a way that we shouldn't. what was your ultimate objective? >> ultimately there was a discussion about whether or not, you know, elevating this would be good or bad. but at the end of the day, he's the president's son. he's -- he is an incredibly valuable surrogate. he just directly after deleting that tweet pinged all of trump's

supporters for more money. we're elevating the initial sort of smear, but the fact that he's paying close enough attention to fringe alt-right figures and then turning around and going to fund raise, i mean, it was a story to do that day. >> frank, you have a column saying that harris and buttigieg would be a dream ticket in 2020. do you think they're winning the attention primary? i mean, is that even a real thing, the media attention primary? >> i think it is a real thing and it has huge fund-raising implications. kamala harris raised a lot of money in the days since the debate. i didn't exactly say it was a dream ticket. i meant i was playing with the notion. i was reflecting on the fact that i think those two were far and away the most impressive in the second night's debate. they represent something about where the democratic party is trying to go in terms of diversity and in terms of setting precedence, in terms of tomorrow. it would be a very risky ticket.

i think it would energize a lot of people, but i think the big question after the debates is does the democratic party have a problem with the most exciting candidates have moved far enough to the left that in fact nominating them would be a gift to donald trump? i don't know the answer to that, but i think is the big question right now in the race. >> both of them came prepared in a way that i think many people who are watching at home could see maybe there's a scenario where they could take on donald trump during a debate as well, i think kamala harris proved that. >> how did he react to the ratings record? they ended up with 15 and 18 million viewser and you have been at abc, nbc, yahoo, were the ratings surprising? >> no, in the sense that we'll have so many debates and i think it shows that there is extreme interest in a lot of these candidates who -- and who can take on donald trump. i think this is the most diverse pool we have seen as far as democratic candidates.

>> is that not going getting enough attention? don't you think there should have been a moment to stay look at the stage. look at what this represents about america. to me that was almost glossed over in the coverage. >> well, i think that's one of the downfalls of having two nights of debates and 20 candidates. there's so many issues to cover. >> i think the candidates made the point. >> that's true. they did make the point. >> i don't think it was glossed over, because exactly what katie said. the candidates made the point. we should pause and note it right now. you had pete buttigieg making very kind of subtle and deft reference to being married to a man and you had kamala harris talking about the diversity on the stage. i think it was right there in front and we didn't need to pause and say, hey, look how diverse. >> and amy klobuchar on reproductive rights, there are three women up here who can vouch for that. >> is there a situation -- is

there still grading on the curve in terms of the democrat versus trump? there's so much noise and news it can't all be processed but in relation to the debates where you have this really interesting, important vital conversation about desegregation and busing in the democratic field. then you have president trump over in asia not seemingly understanding what busing meant. talking about how buses are one of the only ways to get kids to school. got the president talking about western style liberalism and talking about california. i wonder if we're in a situation that the democrats will be graded more severely than the sitting president. >> 100%. that's because we cover man bites dog, not dog bites man. when donald trump doesn't know his history or misspeaks or says something outrageous it is just another day in his life. when a democratic candidate does it it it's news and we have to come to a determination and grapple with that. if we don't we'll keep on doing this. where we are going to penalize

and just vilify democrats for doing things that donald trump does every hour and every minute. >> right now, i kind of think there are two grade books and that's my concern. one more point about the debates and bianna you pointed this out no mention of mueller. no mention of russian meddling or the topics that have conseemed the past two years. there were no real questions on night two either. should there have been? is this something that's kind of weirdly missing right now? >> when an adversary tries to attack our democracy, i would think so. we have been consumed with this for the past two years and it happened to be on a day when the president once again was all chummy with vladimir putin. and i think that this not being asked -- now there were candidates who brought it dup -- >> brought it up on their own, that's true. >> saying this is the number one issue and geopolitical concern. that not being asked i think sends a message it's been

trivialized, it's been normalized and we're numb to it. >> now we know that mueller is testifying on july 17th. katie, are you planning how you're going to cover it that day? >> yeah, we're setting up tents outside. i mean -- >> not quite, huh? >> two weeks away, but i think it will dominate the discussions up until then. i think there are serious open questions about what to expect from the special counsel. whether or not he'll adhere to what he already said, you won't get more out of me if i'm called to testify. >> right. >> so i think it will be very interesting to get a sense of whether or not he is ready to sort of speak about the process and how it played out. you get hints of his dissatisfaction with how the attorney general took parts of the report and displayed it a month before it was released. so those are the things that we're deciding coverage around. >> the big event of july, we have july 4th and whatever president trump does on the mall.

then we have mueller and then the cnn debates at the end of the month. the long, hot summer, do you have a final thought? >> i wanted to say with regards to the president and you have seen him go from actually being fearful of the mueller report and the investigation, right, and being very defensive early on to now mocking it really. i don't know how you can describe it any other way, given what you have seen the president do in front of the global stage with vladimir putin saying knock it off or, you know, seemingly joking and being flip pant about this. it's interesting to see the arc of his relationship. >> i think he's mocked or made fun of it in the whole way through. i think in helsinki he was flippant about the intelligent assessments as well. >> more from the panel on mueller and trump and the rest of the news in a moment. a quick break here and later in the hour the loudest voice, about the rise of fox news and the secrets that roger ailes tried to keep.

but first an award winning ohio newspaper shutting down and it's in the backyard of tim ryan. he will join me in a moment. [farmers bell] (driver) relax, it's just a bug. that's not a bug, that's not a bug! (burke) hit and drone. seen it, covered it. at farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ i've always been amazed and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin...

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new total body refresh. power your day with megared. print newspaper cutbacks are only getting worse and worse. the latest sign is out of youngstown, ohio. the vindicator is the only daily paper in town and it's shutting down at the end of august. it told the reads this weekend, great financial hardships, we searched for a buyer, but that

search has been unsuccessful. the paper had just celebrated 150th anniversary. but soon, there will be no more local daily newspaper published in and around youngstown. with me now is the congressman for the area. he's also a 2020 presidential candidate, tim ryan. congressman, thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> it's heart breaking to see a local newspaper, not just -- we have seen it for years unfortunately layoffs, cutbacks, shorter, smaller papers but now in this country we are starting to see papers shut down. daily papers like yours in youngstown. what does it mean for your community? >> well, first and foremost, it's a job's issue. i mean, there are hundreds -- if you include the carriers about 400 people are going to lose their job. but it's a -- it knits the community together. if there's a big local concert

downtown, we open up a new business incubator, this is the newspaper that highlights it. if we had a boxing champion like ray boom boom mancini or bernie kosar, he was from youngstown, it highlights those who have been successful and brings it back to the local level. it builds culture and that's what you lose when you lose the local newspaper. you lose that culture that pulls you together. at this moment in history in our country's history, it's really a big body blow to lose that local newspaper because so much is pulling us apart and those local papers pulled us together. >> together. what can politicians do to try to restore local news? >> you know, to me, in a lot of ways it's an economic issue. i mean, you probably could do tax incentives and we could have that conversation. but we have seen for the last 30 or 40 years an economic decline. loss of the steel mills and you're talking about tens of

thousands of workers an we had a general motors plant and it's now idle. now they're underemployed. they're not making 30 bucks an hour, but $15 and you figure out what can i cut out of the budget and the newspaper comes into that category and it's that tight for people in this community and across the country. >> obviously, paper needs independence from government, from politicians. yet, i think it's important that the senators and congressmen like yourself, those from the executive branch of government stand up for the local news. it's a heart breaking loss to see the papers shut down so maybe that's the value you can bring to raise your voice. what do you think? >> yeah. i mean, not to pit the press as enemy of the state. i think that's probably a positive first step and to show the value of the transparency. look, i have been a congressman in this area now for 17 years. and the paper obviously at times

wrote articles that i wasn't exactly pleased with. but the reality of it is what's the alternative? i mean, you have a state run paper like in china or like in russia? you know, that's not good at the end of the day. so even though there's that criticism that sometimes people on my side of the camera don't always like it's essential to our democracy. and it's foundational. it was foundational to the creation of this country and it's embedded in the constitution. that's how important the founding fathers thought it was, so we need to defend it even though we don't like what's coming out. >> all right. you know, speaking of that, i wonder how you felt about the nbc debate. did you like how it was handled? you didn't get as much speaking time as the other candidates and there was the weird technical glitch on night one where you were. how do you think nbc fared? >> you know, it was tough. i mean, i got a few suggestions i'd probably make. but i was pleased we got time.

you know, we wanted more time coming from an area like mine i wanted to use that as an opportunity to get to know people. but i was able to get my message out. i talked about bringing this debate back to the workers and the working class issues whether they're white, black, brown, gay or straight. how do we talk about the economic anxiety so i was able to get that message out. i know there are a lot of questions out there, brian, so people can go to tim ryan for america.com if they want to more about my positions and where i stand. i thought all in all it's tough. there's ten people up on the stage. my one recommendation would be have an amount of time and then when people start going over, shut the microphone off. because there were a lot of back and forth going on interrupting people that didn't have the time. >> you know, i was going to wrap -- i don't want to cut your mic. let me ask you one more question. the strategy that i was seen from you recently is to be on all the shows, to saying yes to all the tv shows that you can. including fox news.

should democrats be on fox, what is your reason for saying yes to pro trump shows on fox? >> because there are people who watch fox who may not be voting for democrats, but if they heard a message like the one i'm talking about about working class people and really giving an honest economic criticism of donald trump, we can pull a lot of the voters back into our fold. i mean, politics is about addition, not subtraction. and to have an opportunity to go on to have millions of people who aren't in your camp already and persuade them to come in your camp i think is really essential. i'll tell you i think what happened this weekend with north korea, with china, i think it was donald trump's appeasement tour and so i think we need to make sure that we hit him on some of these issues. the economic issues, the fact that 75% of the american people are still living paycheck to paycheck. why in god's name wouldn't we want to go on fox and make that economic argument to the working class people who watch fox?

and they talk about historic moments. this is historic him going to north korea is like chamberlain going to talk to hitler. i mean, this guy was lobbing missiles into the sea of japan just a few weeks ago and the president is going to talk to him? i mean, are you kidding me? go on fox and make that argument that we're going to be smarter with foreign policy. and that we're going to have a strong, robust, economic agenda for working class people. they're going to be our focus. and let's communicate that to people who aren't watching maybe cnn or msnbc. >> representative ryan, thank you very much. great to see you. >> thanks for having me. we'll talk much more about the president's trip to asia after a quick break here. this historic photo-op will it turn out to be anything more than that? stay with us. we got the idea that if we took two dimensional patient imaging and put it in holographic displays, we could dissect around the tumor so we can safely remove it.

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joking with the russian president. defending the saudi crown prince and thanking the north korean dictator for making him look good. president trump spent several days seemingly cozying up to autocrats and being the first president to step on to north korean soil, he thanked kim jong-un for making him look good. >> when i put out the social media notification, if he didn't show up the press was going to make me look very bad. so you made us both look good so i appreciate it. >> all throughout this trip to the dmz it seemed the president was talking about the press so our panel is back with me now to discuss this. bianna, it seemed like the president was preoccupied with how the press was covering his

trip to the dmz. and travels throughout asia more generally. we can put on screen the many examples of him talking about fake news, complaining the press isn't covering him fairly. how odd is it that he was talking about this instead of diplomacy? >> he complains to dictators about how the press is covering him. i mean, it's as if he's wanting them to console him or to commiserate with him on these issues. look, i don't any anyone is denying that meeting with the leaders is a bad thing. but you meet with them with purpose. it's not a binary choice. not hugs and kisses versus not meeting at all. you come in with a policy, you come in firm with where the u.s. stance is on multiple issues. not just for the photo-op. i think time and time again, yes, if you want to cool down a lot of the heated rhetoric that by the way was instigated by this president, that's one thing. when it comes to policy going forward or rewarding kim jong-un with a meeting, he's presented

nothing. kim jong-un in fact has increased their stockpile, right, not decreased it. so if the option light now is to focus on denuclearization i don't know where that gets us. >> trump does the media tease. we're working on it, making great progress, stay tuned. coming up. it's all going to work out. he's very effective at that. i've got this, trust me. stay tuned. stay tuned is the theme. >> stay tuned on making history. what did he say when he said, big moment. he said something else that i wish we wouldn't let go. it's an honor to be here with you. it's not an honor to be there with a brutal, murderous dictator and he acts as if the fact that he can say i'm the first u.s. president since the korean war to step on this patch of soil that in and of itself doesn't mean nothing if it doesn't lead anywhere. it doesn't lead anywhere except to get him ratings is to -- it's all optics. >> it was a stunt. it was a stunt. >> it was a total stunt.

we are luckily talking about it as such. but again, this is that notion when you give it attention are you in fact rewarding him for the stunt that's something we still two years into the presidency grapple with and don't have a good answer for. >> katie your thoughts on that? >> i mean, i think that he is so focused on his press and focused on his media that i don't think he can see beyond -- i'm stepping over the line and meeting with kim jong-un. he sent me lovely letters, why can't the press just understand what this means? he is a leader who relies 1067 on -- he thinks he relies so much on his personal relationship and his charisma with these leaders. he really does believe that i can forge a bond with these leaders like no other leader can. and that's part of the second beat of -- this is such an amazing thing i'm doing, but none of you care. >> the new white house press

secretary stephanie grisham, she was there. one of the first few days on the job, taking over for sarah sanders. there were issuing getting the american cameras into the room and you can see her physically making sure that's space for the american press according to cnn jim acosta, she was bruised a little bit. looking no wears the wear afterwards but she was willing to stand up in a physical way for the press. >> was she doing that for the press or the president? >> hopefully both. >> it worked out to both parties advantage but i think the main motive was making sure that the press could chronicle a moment that was all about a moment to be chronicled. >> and bianna, the significance of president trump's comments with the russian leader about getting rid of journalists. this was apparently just a joke, but it was said about getting rid of journalists. this is not a joke in russia, can you tell us about that? >> well, it came also on the anniversary of the "capital gazette" mass shooting where five u.s. journalists were killed. no, since vladimir putin has

been president of russia some 25 or 26 journalists have lost their lives covering politics and covering issues that clearly vladimir putin does not like. this is not a joke. and russia in fact people protest. there are thousands of students they're kicked out of colleges, threatened to be kicked out if they go out the protest. the visual of the president laughing it up and complaining about journalists with vladimir putin i think sends a terrible message. not about where we stand as far as treatment of the press, but whether it be hong kong or multiple countries that are dealing with this issue now. america used to be the beacon we turned to and now if the president is being flippant about it, what does it mean for us? >> jokes about fake news is never funny in that situation. one more important story before i take a break. this is a protest that turned violent against a member of the

media in portland, oregon. conservative journalist andy ngo was covering right wing protests and then the protesters, it appears that the antifa protesters attacked ngo. he has been covering protests in portland for quite some time and his critics say he's there to cause trouble but that's unacceptable. the fact that he would be bloodied in that way, up acceptable, period. it is important to make that clear. even left wing critics. there's much we don't know yet about all the circumstances but disturbing to see that in portland. quick break here. then another story that's been in the press, a story that didn't get enough attention initially. then received a lot later. she accused trump of sexual assault so hear what this week has been like for e. jean carroll. right after a quick break. ♪

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that's transpired since is excerpt came out. two of her friends backed up her account. take a listen. >> i can't tell you what it's line for me -- like for me, a woman, walking down the street who's used to walking around unnoticed, you know? with nobody ever looking at me and people stopping me and saying, thank you, with the tears welling in their eyes and taking my hand and saying, i can't tell my story. thank you for telling yours. >> but there was a time you thought you couldn't tell your story either. >> i write an advice column in "o" magazine. i have written it for 26 years. and for 26 years, i have been reading letters from women complaining about their finances or love lives, sex lives. and there comes a line in almost every single letter that the cause of the problem is men. so for years i have been

advising women to get rid of men. then in 2017, the harvey weinstein bombshell hit and the letters coming into the column completely changed, brian. from black to white. now women were asking me, should i come forward and report my boss? should i call the sheriff when my -- next time my husband tries to beat up our dog? my stepson i think is molesting my daughter. and i thought, they're coming to me for advice and i have been holding back all these years. it's time. it's time. and i did it. >> and your book includes so much beyond trump and i promise i'm going to get there in a minute. but i want to ask you about a couple of the developments that have happened since the magazine cover.

donald trump jr. as long as they keep giving the nut jobs time, they'll keep coming so they're happy to use a truly sick for for their sick claims. >> i know it's absolutely nauseating. there's a real strong reason that women refuse to come forth. "a" they will be dragged through the mud. "b" they'll be dumped on the back and forth and "c" they'll be threatened and "d" they'll put their reputations, very reputations on the line. they'll put their lives on the line and they'll put their livelihoods on the line. no reason for me to come forward and put everything on the line. unless i thought it would help other women. and that's exactly what i'm doing. i'm not sorry. >> not sorry. >> not sorry. >> sounds like that's what you want donald trump jr. to know. >> i wouldn't deign to want him

to know anything. >> my colleague at cnn and said we purposely came without the cover story ten days before the book so that all of the trump coverage would happen, then you can talk more about the rest of the book. it seems like a logical strategy to me. you describe experiences with former cbs boss les moonves and others. what do you want the purpose of the book to be after all this trump conversation is maybe over? >> well, it's a merry romp, it's a merry romp. i got into my car with the intention of going to towns named after women and getting out of the car and asking people what do we need men for? and let me tell you, brian, the answers were completely shocking and marvelous. then of course because they were talking and the weinstein story broke, i couldn't help but remember a few of the hideous men in my own life.

i'm just warning everybody, this is not a trump book. it is a merry romp through the towns of america. finding out from women what do we need men for? that is what it is about. >> heck of a journey. >> oh, i wish you could have been there. >> check out my full conversation with carroll on this week's "reliable sources's" podcasts available through stitcher or spotify. coming up next we go behind the scenes of showtime's new drama detailing and showcasing roger ailes' history at the helm of fox news. asoned travelers. and they took my toothpaste away. and you should be mad at people who take unnecessary risks. how dare you, he's my emotional support snake. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade, whose tech helps you understand the risk and reward potential on an options trade it's a paste. it's not liquid or a gel. and even explore what-if scenarios. where's gate 87? don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.

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roger ailes changed cable news and america forever. it has been three years since he was forced out of fox news due to the sexual harassment scandal and now there's a new drama that takes you back to his tenure at fox news. jason blum and eric metcalf is the show runner for "the loudest voice." alex, the idea for this series there was so much attention when ailes was forced out of the job and then he passed away in 2017. have you had enough time to step back and fictionalize this story? >> oh, absolutely. we are looking at, you know, roger and his influence on the

culture and roger and his influence behind the scenes at fox news. so, you know, what fox news has become since roger is quite different. so i think it's actually the perfect time to step back and look at, you know, the arc of roger's history over his 20 years at -- >> different how, what do you think is different? >> well, look, fox has become trump tv in a lot of ways. i mean, the relationship between fox and the trump administration is quite profound. and i don't really think that roger would necessarily be in favor of that because roger would have liked to keep a little more of the power in his hands rather than giving it up to the administration. >> jason, you're the horror movie guy, the maestro, "the purge" and why fox, do you see this as a horror story too? >> i look -- just to be clear to answer both questions, the show is not a biopic. the show is really the story of the genesis of fox news.

and how roger ailes, you know, roger ailes' part in that and to me that's what the divisiveness in the country started. and that's what made the show relevant to me today. to me, that is definitely fitting into the category of a horror. >> of a horror. tell me about casting russell crowe as ailes. tell me about how difficult it was to come up with this world. >> well -- >> go ahead. >> russell crowe was our first choice. and he leapt at the part. he was -- i think he's really perfect for -- to play roger ailes. he spent four hours a day in makeup to >> that's incredible. four hours a day in makeup. >> it's an incredible transformation russell goes through. >> the other characters, how did you try to make this show feel as real as possible?

you're obviously dramatizing a real tv news world. >> look, the show is based on the book "the loudest voice in the room." and gabe did an incredible amount of recertificate. on this. he did over 600 interviews with everybody he could possibly get to. so i think we worked really hard to kind of be as fact-based as possible and to really stick to what we saw as the truth of roger and his time at fox news. >> obviously trump/fox, fox and trump is an interesting topic. i'm starting a book about the topic, so i'm very interested in it. jason, i wonder for viewers who are going to watch your series, do they learn something new about the trump presidency and the trump age as well? do you think there are lessons at fox that apply to what's going on today? >> yeah, i think there are real lessons about speaking to the base and driving the base, something that trump does.

i think the genesis of that was fox and fox news and this idea of what is real and what is not real, the whole notion of fake news. largely started with the beginning of fox news. >> jason, you're a hollywood hotshot these days. i know you care a lot about the presidential race. what do you think is going to happen? >> i don't know. i watched the debates -- i watched both nights of the debates and it was actually nice to see. i feel like we have a lot of good choices, and hopefully one -- what i really hope is that a lot of the people on that stage drop out so we can kind of get down to talking about who is going to face off against trump. >> yeah, that's interesting. jason and alex, thank you both. "the loudest voice," a seven-part series on showtime this evening. quick break on "reliable sources." biopharmaceutical researchers.

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i just want to close today's program with a question -- will we remember? this photo of a father and daughter who drowned in the rio

grande generated news coverage and had people talking about the power of a picture but how long will we remember this photo? here is one thing we need to remember, the trump administration is actively work to go keep reporters and the rest of us in the dark and out of these border detention camps, photos, videos, are not allowed. we're almost never seen inside these detention facilities. that is a problem and continues to be. when you see these heartbreaking pictures from the border, think about what we are not seeing. that's a wrap on this week's "reliable sources." thank you for being with us. we'll see you back here this time next week. it's amazing what you can uncover with your

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