introducing febreze one. it eliminates odors with no heavy perfumes, so you can feel good about using it in your home. for a light, natural-smelling freshness, try new febreze one. [ applause ] all right. welcome to the van jones show. look, it is hot outside everywhere. but at least our new studio is pretty cool. pretty awesome i think. thank you. and it's fitting because we have an awesome show to you. soccer superstar megan rapinoe is in the house, y'all. it's going to be nuts. plus we have not one but two swing state governors from wisconsin and pennsylvania, who might tell us how the democrats can win something in 2020. that would be great a lot to get to. but first let's talk.

okay. the news cycles usually move on pretty fast niece days. but this woke the country feels like it's been stuck on one big story which is trump telling four women of color in congress to go back and help fix a totally broken crime infested places from which any came. even though they are all u.s. citizens and three of them actually born here in the united states. then he goes to a big rally, lights into representative ilhan omar and stood back at thousands of his rabid followers chanted send her become. sen her back. disgusting be legally and technically textbook racist. i want to speak about it personally. i grew up on the edge of a small town in rural west tennessee. lived in a modest brick home at the end of what was a gravel road at the time. no sidewalks, streetlights. but it was a good house. my parents were proud to be first time home owners. unfortunately the day we moved in the white family that lived next door immediately put a sign

in their yard wherefore sale. they hated the idea of having black neighbors even school teachers like my parents were. then another white family moved into the neighborhood. very poor had a lot of kids and we thought, great, more kids for us to play with. so i ventured down the street to see hello to the kids. the oldest 15 years old rode up to me and said we aren't allowed to play with no niggers and he spat on the ground. i was a little bitty kid. i just turned away. as i turned away he said it. go back to africa. go back to africa. this go back thing has been going on a very long time. and just to be clear as a ninth generation american i never been to africa, okay. but i knew has a child that was not the poip. he was saying there was something about me that was fundamentally otmar permanently unacceptable and unwell nol not because of anything i had done but simply because of how much light my skin absorbs.

we also know this controversy is not about the women criticizing america too much. president trump has never told any of his white critics to go back anywhere. bernie sanders is a son an immigrant who criticizes ds the united states non-stop. under obama trump criticized the united states to no end, even called us the laughing stock of the world. but nobody has ever told bernie or trump or even trump's immigrant wives to go back to any country. people never say stuff like that to what people which is now you know it's racist and it's also reckless. one one person has already been charged with conspiring to hurt ilhan omar. i worry that there mib more. the highlight of the week was the warm welcome that ilhan omar with when she went home to minnesota, okay that was the reminder we needed that the united states is most beautiful diverse democracy in the history of the world. love it as it is.

or make it better. but nobody has the right to tell any other citizen to leave, period. period. so, look, my first guest is -- i'm so glad she is here. she is a uniter working to bring out the best in the country. she is a world champion athlete and a champion fighting for equality off the field. please welcome to the van jones show the amazing megan rapinoe. [ applause ] >> oh, my goodness. oh, my godness. >> hi. hi. >> so happy right now. i'm so happy right now. >> me too. >> oh, my gosh. oh, my goodness. >> you are just a big old dose of sunshine. >> wow. >> and inspiration. what are you doing? how are you such a big

powerhouse of love in the middle of the non-sense. >> i don't know. i mean, i don't do well when i have a frown on my face. i think everyone is exhausted of all the fighting and the sort of negativity and that doesn't mean you can't stand for certain things and still be positive. and i kind of just -- it wasn't even conscious to be honest. but i feel like something just clicked where i was like we don't even have to like address any of this. let's just like focus on what's important and the people that are important and spreading positivity. and uniting and being able to have the conversation that is we need to have. >> you've been doing a beautiful job of it. how did you feel when you saw president trump you know coming down so hard on four women of color in congress? how did you feel about that. >> i mean, it's disgusting to be honest. it's -- to say it's disappointing that doesn't even come close. i mean, it seems -- i'm just like honestly waiting for like a racial slur to come out, like

we're not far from it at all like how much closer do we need to be? but i just see it like the way everyone rallied -- the homecoming for omar, like welcome back home. that was just incredible. i think everyone is like disgusted by that. that's not who we want to be as a country. and that just -- i mean even his own party is like, wow, too far. i mean, too far for even us. but it -- it makes me, you know, sad in that way. but it's also like just energizes me so much. i hope people feel like that just oh, hell, no. i hope people realized. >> too far. >> yeah, way too far the more we are upset it about it and don't accept that behavior from all sides the better place we will be. >> you said you wouldn't go to the trump white house but you did say you would go to d.c. and you did say you wanted to meet with aoc. >> um-hum.

>> who doesn't. >> exactly. >> aoc bring them all. >> have you got a chance to talk with her yet in the middle of this stuff going on. >> not yet. it's been a crazy whirlwind. >> yeah. >> injury there is people trying to work behind the scenes to get of an event together in d.c. that could be coma. uniting talking about the things we want to talk about. and that's not just to say we want people that think like us, but if you're coming and be there you have to come genuinely. and with serious intent to talk about some of the issues that we want to talk about. and we can hash it out and get to a better place. >> a lot of people hope that maybe you'll run for office and be the fifth member of the squad. would that be squad. >> yeah. >> let's see the fifth member of the squad is that possible. >> can you imagine if i like walked into congress with in outfit on. >> congress, better off any

chance saying you going to run. >> no, i'm not going to run. i'm a wildly unqualified to be running for office. >> acre to who. >> yeah, i mean, i'm wildly qualified actually all of a sudden. i'm happy to, you know, throw my weight behind someone and always say like i think everyone has a responsibility to do something. everybody can do something. and you have to do something. it's not like you just can. it's vital you that do something. i'll be doing something. i'm not exactly sure yet. but it will be vocal. >> do any of candidates right now running for president? do any of those appeal to you yet? are you still looking at all 27,000 of them trying to figure out their names. >> i've certainly knocked some names off the list. >> which. >> i'm interested in warren, of course. interested in kamala harris. bernie sanders i don't think -- i like his message, but i'm not

sure that -- that it's for me necessarily. and what we really, like, need as a country. >> you say not for you, what do you mean. >> he is just -- i don't want to be ageist. but he is very old. i like a lot of stuff he says, though, too. i mean -- and ease been saying it a long time. and he is like i've been saying this forever. >> why do you like elizabeth warren. >> she is just so smart and organized. her thoughts are organized. she has the clear message. and she is powerful, i think. she just has that like something intangible about her. i would never want to get in of an argument with kamala harris. i'm like, whoa, you're right. whatever it is. >> you've been fighting for equal pay, women's issues whatever. it is it time for us to have a female president? >> yeah. i ayes. >> go!

>> yeah. >> [ applause ] >> fsk you don't want -- did you won you don't want to say we need prop up a female to be president. but there's been so many that are qualified. and overlooked. we're so hard picking apart every little thing. maybe it's time for us as a country to embrace a woman. let's just see what happens. let's take a step back, see what happens. we can always go back to no presidency. >> exactly. the idea of patriotism is now kind of on trial. it's like well you know you're not a patriot. you're not a patriot. i mean, do you consider yourself to be a patriot? >> yeah. i think i'm superpatriotic. i do consider myself extremely patriotic. i think like we love in america to talk about, you know, how good we are, and how like we want to save the world, and always interveeng in places because they're not doing it right. meanwhile at home we're not even doing that often time for our own people.

so i feel like even just to be a good person but certainly to be what i think of as a good american and all the ideals we want to talk about, look at the statue of liberty. what does that mean? what does the flag mean? i think it means standing up for people who can't themselves or speaking out about things for being brave, and kind of putting yourself out there. and kind of sticking your chest out and being willing to take it. and to make it better for everyone. if we want to be considered the best in the world which i think we certainly consider ourselves best in the world for good reason. why can't we always be better? why does criticizing or looking within? why and see weakness. that's not we canness. that's identifying a problem and fix attention it and then you're stronger. >> maybe that's how you get to become a champion. >> yeah. [ applause ] >> hey, look. coming up, i want to keep talking about all kind of issues including the personal reason

why she has become such a vocal advocate for criminal justice reform and why she joined colin kaepernick in his kneeling protest, when we get back. ♪ ♪ award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century.

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surprisingly painless. so, you never have to talk about it, unless you're their spokesperson. esurance. it's surprisingly painless. well back to the van jones show. i'm here with world champion megan rapinoe. i want to get into the more controversial stuff. you were one of the few white athletes in the world who also kneeled when colin kaepernick was kneeling. why was that important for you to do? >> i mean, i want to know why more people didn't kneel. unless you don't believe that that's happening, and if you really don't believe that's happening there are other issues. if you know that that's happening and you believe it's happening, you know mass incarceration is happen. police broulgtsty. you know the history of our country. for me honestly it was a no

brainer. i just feel like there was something that i could do like going back to what i was saying about your personal responsibility to do something. i felt like i can do this. i'm a public figure. this is impactful, start the conversation or keep the conversation going. and bring a conversation to a totally different dynamic and different demographic of people and coming from someone, you know, who looks like me. i actually felt like it was going to be -- how naive i felt like it would be received better. like, hmm, okay, woman, whiting with sort of non-threatening, not the case. >> i mean, it was incredibly courageous for you today. i've been working on criminal justice and police reform issues for 25 years. and you know kind of hits closely at home to me. a lot of people don't know the issue of incarceration also hits close to you. your brother brian has spent motivate of his adult life life in and out of prisons.

how does that shape your world view and your willingness to speak up? >> i mean, i think it had a huge impact. from a very young age. i think he got arrested the first time he was like 15 with drugs at school. and so immediately just innocent. like obviously he needed rehab but immediately he is in the system. you know, by 18 and 20 he is in you know the federal system. he is in, you know, pelican bay and susanville. >> pelican bay is no joke. >> no crazy two stints in pelican bay. . . and to see the trajectory of his life when he needed rehab and help is just- not to say he didn't do anything wrong and certainly in prison he did wrong for sure. but to know that you know that -- it just immediately swept him up gachl the perspective are from the age of 10 really. >> wow. what do you wish people knew about the impact on families? because people think about the person who goes to prison. but this is like -- he was like your hero. this is like.

>> yeah. >> he is a person that put the soccer ball in front of you the first time. >> i mean, i think that the biggest thing i saw was just the -- what he became while in prison and how hard that was. got caught up in a lot of race relations. and obviously he is white and had swastikaa tattoos and just got caught up in in life that was terrible. auchlds the outside knowing he needs treatment but he is getting worse in there and just not really feeling that hope or support. and when he gets out it's like how much support are ge rowe we giving? we're a always there for you. but are you getting help? is there resources to get help? it's devastating in so many ways. see what it does to your parents and kind of -- yeah just the family in general. it's difficult. >> i think what you said is so important. starts off as just addiction. some people the first time they try drugs are hooked. >> right. >> they need a lot of help and not a lot of harm. >> he is a heroin addict and got

addicted to pills. if you want to go deeper. how availably were the pills the opioid crisis as we have seen hassious been devastating. and i feel like totally unavoidable. tease just not fair. that's not fair to the american people to be put in this situation. >> you fight for fairness. a i mean on the issue of equal pay like weeks before the world cup when most people would have been like focusing on their, you know, workout, you filed a lawsuit suing. >> yeah. [ applause ] >> no joke, suing where are we? listen, i mean -- everybody is behind -- snoop dogg is with you. where are we? are you going to win? >> i think we're going to win. i think we have a strong case. we're showing well in the polls right now. we have agreed to mediation. it's happening in a couple of weeks. i'm not sure the date is quite set. it will be interesting to get everyone back together and see sort of where the federation is right now.

obviously the players are in the same place that we're always in. but i think there needs to be like a major paradigm shift in the way that they're thinking about this. i think sometimes it's just too in the weeds can't see the forest for the reese and we need to step become and think what do we want for the federation for, you know, the next 50 years, next 10 oh years? what message do we want to send to fifa and the rest of the world about how you treat women and athletes and fairness in general. >> it's amazing, my boys are soccer heads. you know, when they talk about great athletes they talk about lebron james and steph curry and you in the same sentence. not she is just good for a woman. no, she is just dope. [ applause ] >> and my last question is just dsh you know, you're part of in sort of, you know, power couple, athletic royalty, royalty. you is -- >> lesser accomplished by 10

champions. >> but listen, as a couple you got filed gold medals four basketball world cups. three ncaa championships three nbaa championships and two soccer world cups thap that's an amazing thing. how has she made you better person, a better athlete? >> oh, gsh she is incredible. she is so low key and so humble. but has this -- this brilliant mind. to have that -- that balance every sim day, someone who knows me so well, feels the same way and kind of can help me like think through things sometimes. she is like maybe think about that for one second before you push send on the tweet. okay, you're right. >> that's great. >> she has such a huge heart. and it's so low key and wonderful. >> well, you are not low key. but you are wonderful. this is megan rapinoe, on the

van jones show. [ applause ] >> thank you so much. look, coming up, could o did trump's racist comments cost had him votes in 2020. i went to one of the swingingest counties in the country to find out. you'll hear what this group has to say when we get back. here's another reason to join t-mobile. do you like stranger things? sure you do. that's why netflix is on us. and here's another reason to join. bring in your discount, and we'll match it. that's right. t-mobile will match your discount. you don't need to go anywhere dad, this is your home. the best home to be in is your own. home instead offers personalized in-home services for your loved ones. home instead senior care. to us, it's personal.

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jones show. you've been hearing from pundits like me and politicians all week about how president trump's racist attacks have been awful. but how is it impacting voters? i traveled to nofrgt hampton in pennsylvania, that's at purpose pupal as they come. it went from obama blue twice to trump red in 2016. the home of a lot blue collar workers, steel workers, supposedly the trump base. but voters switched back to the democrats in 2018 mid-terms. so all eyes on places like this into 20. i sat down with a group of five voters from across the spectrum to find out how the recent political controversies and candidates and debates are landing there. take a look. >> so the first question i got to ask you is show of hands, who voted for donald trump in 2016? raise your hand. >> two. are you planning to vote for donald trump in 2020?

>> well i haven't made up my mind yet whether or not i was voting for him or not. i am leaning more towards him than the other candidates right now. the economic situation from me and my business is going very well. so, you know economics is a big important issue here service of process. >> gotcha. what about you? >> yeah, i am. for me, all this kind of this far left talking is kind of scaring me when it comes to the border, decriminalizing illegal immigration. >> so let's just address the elephant in the room you're a young black dude with tattoos and stuff. why are you supporting donald trump given some of his racially inflammatory rhetoric. >> i think, look, i was raised in a conservative family. and i'm in business. i'm in business -- it's great. gentleman said like that, i don't want to lose that. i know a lot of the rhetoric that comes out of the white house off twitter is concerning. but putting personal feelings

aside, i think that we're having a great economic boom. >> how do you size up the whole thing where president trump comes out and says to these women, go back to your whatever country you came from. >> it's a man in desperation. he is desperate. >> desperate for what. >> to be president. the only person he cares about is himself. donald trump has been exposed from his own mouth. he did everything to put out the image. and he indicators to people who are, how would you put it? not quite right it seems. you know, they -- they think it's okay, right, to cause all kinds of problems with the white nationalist problem and things of that nature. they think this is the way it should be in this country. >> almost everyone has a story of being told go back to your country. and i think that it's kind of like one of the oldest, you know, tricks in the book when it

comes to phraseology, maybe outside of the n-word that comes to mind when you talk about racist language. >> i've had people tell me why don't you go back where you come from. i've had people when i moved to pennsylvania said you're a new yorker why don't you go back to new york where you belong. well, you know those are just human emotion remarks and people are frustrated. and ner frustrated. he is frustrated from the very beginning. they have attacked him, his family, his wife, his kids. it's disgusting. it really is. >> i just go back to values. i value treating people with dignity. i value creating climates and opportunities that allow people and encourage people to reach their fullest capacity. and if there is anything that is incongruent with those values then i'm not for that. and so i'm not going to put profit over my values. >> are you putting profits over your values? >> that would be a yes. >> well, look. >> that would abyes. >> i think that this -- this go

back comment hit -- hit a lot of us that support him -- it hit a lot of us in the gut. i think the president is putting a lot of us in a very precarious situation. people that would have supported him. i think the president has a base and a far right-wing base and a lot of white nationalists and racists, a lot of anti-semites in that base. i'm going to have a pr strategy that's going to rile up the base. i feel like a lot of us feel like, wow, where do we fit in anymore? are we still welcome in in movement? are people of color still welcome? i'm temg you, a lot of my friends that are black conservatives -- a lot of them have jumped off the trump train. they've gone over to kamala harris's side, gotten involved in her campaign and also joe biden. i think it's up to the president, up to the president. do you really want to have an inclusive campaign, inclusive

run, inclusive administration or don't. >> you as republican are there any democrats running for president you like yet? >> well i did like bidden a little bit. but then, you know, i remember when he was in office. and hey, you know he is a nice guy. but he really didn't do as much -- >> i talk to a lot of my republican friends and they're just like we like joe biden. we like kamala harris. >> does that make you happy or said. >> it doesn't surprise me process it doesn't surprise me we're in pennsylvania. we're in joe biden country. i think it's because they look they're of an era and look like what people think of politic. en. a certain generation the white man. >> who do you like. >> i like kamala harris. i think you have people like joe biden who frankly are bringing in toxic masculinity. talk about hitting him in the mouth. aen and something about a push up contest with him. who wants to see 70 plus-year-old men on national

television do push ups. i'm sorry i don't. >> who do you like. >> elizabeth warren. >> why warren. >> i like she understands finances, money, big banks, business big business. they thinks well has a plan. >> you have democrats fighting each other in the primary. democrats fighting each other in the house. what do you think about the aoc versus pelosi dynamic? how do you read that. >> i said go girl. >> dude. >> sfoo. >> to who. >> aoc. absolutely bring it. >> i agree with her that she should not have to adapt to a broken system. shake it up. make it right. the democrats could be bolder. they could be more courageous. they could be more unapologetic. this is the time where incremental change is not getting us where we need to be. >> you got a little amen there. is she singing your song. >> she is singing the song and the those four women are the best thing that happened to the

democratic party. i don't care what anybody says. they have to put the rest of the people -- their feet on the fire. >> the status quote will get us no where. >> kin the to benefit whos benefitting and marginalized the marginalize ds. >> are you happy to hear democrats going this far left. >> i like going left. >> that's why i think trump will win. >> not not going left. >> that's socialism. >> why douse that. >> they want be the provider to everybody. they want to tell what you to do what to eat when to eat eat how to eat. they want to build more rules and regulations. >> so i think one of the things that they really figured out is how to command media attention, do talking points, rally the base and i think, you know, kind of channel into the real anger honestly out there. the democratic party is this big giant tent with dysfunctional family. it's always been that way. you know, so obviously there is natural clashes in that. but that's government.

that's how it works. [ applause ] >> you know it's always cigarette to get a perspective pr from real voters. up next insignature sfr governors from two swing states. states that trump won. what do 2020 candidates need to do to turn their states blue? we'll talk about that when we get back. of savings and service. whoa. travis in it made it. it's amazing. oh is that travis's app? it's pretty cool, isn't it? there's two of them. they're multiplying. no, guys, its me. see, i'm real. i'm real! he thinks he's real. geico. over 75 years of savings and service.

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[ applause ] my next guests are governors of two important states that democrats are trying to win back in 2020. the they are hoping hoping to rebuild the brew wall democrats used to have. please welcome pennsylvania governor tom wolf and wisconsin governor tony evers in the house at the same time. two winners. listen, you are two governors that have been figuring out a way to win as democrats in states that trump won. i don't care what anybody else, you are the experts at how you pull in off in the swing states. and the first thing -- wove been talking about the racist attacks high pressure. how do you think the attacks play in your state? and what impact did this behavior from the president going to have in 020. >> a great question. first of all obviously it was a racist rant on his part. but i think you know everybody knows that's part of his dna. and so i believe to win

wisconsin you have to focus on issues. i think we own the values. i think the exacts own the values in this race. and not diminishing the negativity of donald trump and the horrible things he says. but we all know that. i mean, we've been witnessing that for several years. we need to focus on what people in wisconsin want. >> but isn't it tough -- i mean you can't ignore but it can't focus. you wouldn't counsel that we give him a pass on it. >> you can't ignore it. i agree with tony. i don't think it's going to play well in pennsylvania. we were founded on the basis of tolerance and inclusion. we obviously not perfect have a long way to go. about you our future does not lie in divisiveness, does not lie in bigotry. >> sometimes i feel democrats get so angry with trump we saw say all of trump's supporters and voters are bigots, all idiots, all racists. . is there a danger saying those things winds up helping trump. >> i don't think we are saying

that. i don't think we should say that. and tony and i were talking earlier. one of the things that we democrats have to recognize is that progressive -- progressivism is actually a very pragmatic flossty. inclusion is a smart. the central tenants of the progressive ideology are actually pragmatically aimed at helping the people that -- and too many ways i think donald trump pretended to try to go after in the last election. >> there is no reason why rural pennsylvania, rural casino should be donald trump territory. it makes no sense. >> why not. >> because the issues that rural wisconsin is facing are around making sure that they have good health care and good education system that they are -- that they need to have in order to move forward. >> but, i mean, people keep saying the economy is great. those are kitchen table issues. look, you got unemployment below 4%. and both your states. and pushing down closer to 3%. how are you going to say we are

running on kitchen table issues when the economy is going gangbusters. >> i judge did. i won on that. >> never mind. >> we have 2.8%. unemployment which is really low. but we have 800,000 families in the state of wisconsin that can't afford to have child care, health care, and health insurance. there are people working but working two or three jobs. low pay jobs. so we've got a long way to go. >> get them on that. >> absolutely. >> his economic policy certainly haven't helped pennsylvania farmers. the trade war hurt farmers wanting to export dairy products to canada. it's hurt the immigration policy he promotes hurts farmers who want to use seasonal workers. practically, the people he pretended to help he is hurting. >> you know, you guys sound like -- you don't sound like aoc. you sound like just steady eddie

type of people. what do you think about like the aocs and the bernies and the other people that are bringing more of the fire, man. isn't that where we are supposed to go. >> absolutely. but. >> we're old white guys. >> yeah. and nothing wrong with that. >> nothing wrong with that. but how do you -- aren't you worried though. >> it's a big tent that the democrats have. i had 15 plus people in my primary. running for governor. and you know, the whole spectrum, right. but you know we pretended that we were so far apart but in actuality it was close. we had 15 people all across the state august about the same thing, a big tent is a good thing not a bad thing. >> i think part of -- [ applause ] >> i think in politics we have to engender excitement obviously we have a little challenge in that regard. >> well. >> but we have to make sure that the people understand we're not just -- just spouting platitudes

we actually really believe that the policies that we support make a difference. and that -- that is maybe not as passionate a message or delivered in as exciting a way. but it's nevertheless true. >> behind the scenes, democratic governors are worried though that the party is going too far left. is that a reasonable fear? >> i think the fear is around being pragmatic at the end of the day. i think the people in wisconsin want to see issues resolved. and pragmaticism i think will carry the day. but i think any one of the 20 plus running for president they have to be pragmatic, think about how we get from point a to b. >> which of the candidates are doing well in a place like pennsylvania. >> i think it's still unfolding. but, again. >> who do you like. >> i'm staying out of this entirely. >> who do you like. >> i'm happy with every single one of them. >> i just want everyone to come to wisconsin before the primary. >> yeah with, because sometimes people will take you guys for granted. >> absolutely.

but they'll energize the base from one side. >> are they showing up? are candidates showing up in wisconsin. >> yes but donald trump has been there several times too. we need to to have everybody there. this is an important. >> that blue wall got neglected last time. i am curious, you know, you keep talking about the big tent but it can't be good to have a party in divided. >> i don't think the party is divided. i think we have open and honest debates. again, we need to have some excitement. we need to make sure people are watching. by also i think -- injury that's the first step to making sure we are being substantive in terms of -- universal health care, i mean that's a wonderful thing to sell. and it's very exciting. it also happens to make perfect sense. >> you know, and that's actually exactly where a good spot to come back to. i want to talk with you when we get back about universal health care and the slogan that i think may actually come to bite us in the butt and haunt us in 2020. i'll explain when we get back. [ applause ]

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[ applause ] hey i'm become with governor wolf from pennsylvania. and tony evers from wisconsin.

let's talk about health care. former vice president biden rolled out his plan some call obamacare 2.0. he criticized medicare for all clashing with bernie sanders. this is a huge issue on the debate stage and make or break issue for voters. but i'm worried about how this one plays out. so check out the video i made to tell you why. >> the u.s. health care system is a mess. and fixing it is a huge political opportunity for democrats going into 2020. but i worry that one popular slogan could be a political disaster if it's handled badly. >> medicare for all. >> i support medicare for all. >> i will fight for medicare for all. >> think of our public health care system the way you think about public transportation. if our federal health care system were a subway system, the only people riding would either be very old, medicare or very poor, medicaid. almost nobody else would be allowed on the subway system.

which means you'd have to buy a car or get a cab, or get a pog o stick, do something. in other words you have to buy private health insurance. the problem is many of the private insurance so some people are forced to opt out. in fact right now more than 30 million americans don't have coverage at all. yet americans spend nearly twice as much as many other developed countries on health care and still have worse health outcomes. so we need to do better. democrats are offering several tracks on how to do that. the most controversial proposal comes from candidates like bernie sanders or elizabeth warren. medicare for all, period. these plans would essentially do away with private insurance as we know it. everybody would have to ride the subway. no more cars, no more taxis. >> if you want to save money, you have to get rid of the profiteering of the insurance companies. >> there are honestly really a

lot of good reasons to go with this approach. many developed countries rely on public health care with great outcomes. and i agree with them in theory. but i got real concerns. eliminating choice is not something that americans are likely to go for. the term "medicare for all" is actually very popular but a recent poll shows that most americans oppose eliminating private health insurance companies. they do however overwhelmingly support what's known as a public option. now, that's what former vice president joe biden is calling for, creating a broader government-run option not called medicare, to compete with the private plans. he says he would also find some ways to make those private insurance plans cheaper, like offering more government subsidies. >> you build on obamacare like i'm doing and provide a medicare option. >> that's kind of like offering a new subway line while saying you have to give discounts and rebates for those who want to buy cars.

sounds good but some people say it's not good enough to solve the problem. i think mayor pete buttigieg is playing this very start. his plan is medicare for all who want it. it's working towards a universal health care system but doesn't wipe out private insurance. >> take some flavor of medicare, make it available on the exchange as kind of a public option. that's ultimately going to be more efficient over time and more cost effective. >> that's like saying anybody who wants to ride the subway is free to do it, young or old, rich or poor, doesn't matter. but if you don't want to be on the subway and want to buy your own car or own helicopter, you're free to do it. to me that makes more sense. i don't think saying medicare for all who don't want it is a great bumper sticker, it's not going to put you on the fast track to the white house. [ applause ] all right. how do you see this issue of medicare for all, universal health care, playing out in the

primary and in the general? >> that is obviously the number one topic in the country. i do believe that, you know, having a much stronger public option is really important. one of the candidates uses this term, and i like it, in order to hit a grand slam home run you have to have somebody at first, second, and third, and we don't have anybody on first, second, and third. it is important to make some steps forward. i think it's good to know where we're going. but i think the value of choice is really important for people. >> how do you see it? >> i believe we ought to have universal health care. and i think to the extent we can put options in that and give people choices, i am for that. so i think there are some real great things to our medicare system right now. i did expand medicaid, i could do that when i first started, and i improved on the affordable care act to get more people covered. >> would you wipe out private

insurance companies? >> no. >> why not? >> because i think that's one way to give people choices. we should be working toward universal health care. we shouldn't be defining exactly how -- >> if we define it to wipe out the health insurance companies, is that going to make it tough for democrats? is that ammunition for republicans in swing states, or not? >> i think so. the fact of the matter is, there's 2 million people that work for private health insurance companies. why lose 2 million votes right off the bat? that doesn't make sense. >> let's talk about another issue that is becoming more hot which is the criminal justice reform issue. i know both you guys are passionate about that. why do you care so much about criminal justice reform? >> it's a moral issue. we can look at it financially, we can look at it as a moral issue. i think it's a moral issue. we have a great disparity in the

color of skin of people who are prisons as opposed to people like me. >> we could be making genuine contributions to our communities and we're locking them up. we're creating a sense of complete unfairness because we're not doing it in an equitable may. it affects certain groups more than others. if we don't have a sense that it's level playing field for everybody, we're hurting ourselves. >> you and i work together in try to fix probation and parole. it's just becoming a revolving door. why do you care about it? >> i care about criminal justice reform in general and that's a central part of it. we need bail bond reform. pennsylvania is one of the few states that does not have probation limits. and that's unfair to people. >> we have lots of people in our state that are in prison because

their probation was revoked but they didn't commit a crime. think about that. >> now in pennsylvania that can't happen. >> we're moving in the right direction there. i got one last question for you. very simple. will your states in 2020 be blue or red? >> blue. >> blue. [ applause ] >> governors, thank you for being here and thank you for watching "the van jones show," ending with some good news, at least for me. i'm van jones. peace and love for one another. [ cheers and applause ] sure you do. that's why netflix is on us. and here's another reason to join. bring in your discount, and we'll match it. that's right. t-mobile will match your discount. ♪

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you're live in "the cnn newsroom." i'm ana cabrera in new york. we're watching developing stories all over the world, even in space this hour. an american rapper detained overseas. the president of the united states now negotiating personally to try and get him out. people packed in the streets of puerto rico. they're angry but so far peaceful. they want their governor gone. and reflections from someone who has walked in space this historic day, 50 years since man set foot on the moon. my conversation w