federation, and it's clutching golf clubs plus a wad of cash in its talons and instead of ye plurbus anum, the impostor has the message, quote, 451 a puppet in spanish. turning point usa says they, quote, meant no disrespect. they claim an audio visual aid did a google search for a presidential seal, didn't notice that it was a parody. apparently the aide is out of a job tonight. the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> get the seal wrong, you're fired. thank you, anderson. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." why are republicans still blocking election protection even as their own members on the senate intel committee issue brand-new warnings about moskow's ongoing meddling. next, why won't the president tell senator mcconnell to do his damn job? we're going to take that question to the president's re-election campaign press secretary. and if the democrats

expected mr. mueller to create a consensus on impeachment, it didn't happen. but many democrats say the move is already clear, and none has been pushing harder than this presidential candidate. let's test mr. steyer on his case for impeachment and for the environment. also, just days before the next democratic debates we're seeing a bolder biden. this time he says he isn't going to be as polite. will he be the warrior many in his party crave? big questions out there. what do you say? let's get after it. all right. so house speaker nancy pelosi made a bit of a shift. she said democrats should do what they need to do on impeachment. the question is, has the trump train left the station? is it too little too late? mr. tom steyer has poured big bucks into making impeachment happen. the 2020 candidate can't be happy because it isn't

happening. >> nice to be here. >> so answer the question for me p . impeachment, while obviously a possibility, too little, too late? >> well, you know i've called on speaker pelosi to cancel the 44-day congressional vacation that starts tomorrow and use that time to have hearings so the american people can continue what they've learned from mr. mueller, which is that we have the most corrupt president in american history, and he's more than met the criteria to be impeached and he should be removed as soon as possible. >> but you don't have a puerto rico here, and you don't have a watergate. you don't have a clear felony that comes out as a surprise to the american people. and you don't have that kind of public uprising that shows a consensus for this type of action. so, why do you see it as the best move? >> look, chris, you're right. we haven't had the televised hearings that we had in watergate. but let the american into the fact of how corrupt president nixon was, and we've been

calling for two years for those kind of hearings here so the american people can see exactly how corrupt this president is. the fact we haven't had them is a straight up failure of government. it's one of the reasons that i'm running for president is i feel as if we have a failed government. we have to return that government to the people. that's what i've been trying to do for ten years as an outsider, and that's why i'm running for president. >> why not make the case to the people? tom steyer is better for america, better than this president, here's what he did, here's why it's unacceptable. vote for me. >> well, i'm not running on impeachment, chris, just so you know. i'm running on the fact that the corporations have taken over our government. for ten years as an outsider i've been putting together coalitions of regular american citizens to take on those corporations. we've been beating them for ten years, and frankly, climate is a perfect example of what we're seeing.

the we're seeing the oil and gas companies calling the tune on energy and pollution and climate when it should be the american people. >> i'll take the bait on the pivot, and here's why. one, i think it's problematic to say i'm not running on impeachment because it comes with risk. you say you're going to use your emergency powers. now, doesn't that make you arguably more like the president than dissimilar because how do you use the emergency powers and emergency declaration on the environment? >> chris, we are in a crisis on climate. it is threatening the health and safety of every american. >> agreed. >> this is exactly what the emergency powers were given. when the american people are threatened, in fact the president has to act. if the government and the congress can't act, then the president has to protect the country and the people. >> but that's a political

argument, but it's not the power located in that statute. that's why this show and many others argued against the president's exercise of that statute as an emergency declaration. because the border and needing a fence ain't an emergency declaration. that statute had a specific purpose in taking the purse strings away from congress. i don't know how this fits. >> chris, in this case, i completely agree with you president trump was completely out of line in trying to use emergency powers for the border. but in terms of the climate crisis, we can see the damage it's doing. we can see the damage that it's going to do, the absolute threat to our country. and we've got to turn the page on this conversation from talk and inaction to immediate action. >> i don't disagree. >> it has to happen and that's what i'm doing by declaring a state of emergency on day one. >> that's where we disagree. i'll tell you why, tom. i get the first part, that you need to be a persuader in chief. you need to form consensus, and that has to motivate congress to satisfy the appetite for different and change on the part of their constituents.

but if you just do an end run and do a power play that further messes up our checks and balances, how are you any better than what we have there now? >> well, let me put it to you this way, chris. you've got to go back to my basic thesis which is the corporations have bought the democracy. we can see it in climate. we can see it in drug pricing. we can see it in gun violence. we can see it across the board. 8 out of 10 americans agree with that statement, and we've got to break that corporate stranglehold and return the democracy to the people. and honestly that's what i've been doing in the states for ten years by organizing people, direct democracy. passing propositions, going around the legislature directly to the people. >> tricky on the federal level. easier on the state level. but i'm not -- i'm not arguing with your premise that we have -- you are outlining some of the factors that are stopping change on the climate. understood. if they can't find a way to make money on it, they're not going to pursue it with the kind of appetite they will if they're

making money off right now. i'm saying don't become what you oppose. don't make an arguably a righteous but wrong power play to get something done just because you believe in it because then you're just like what we have now. >> chris, the most famous historic example of emergency powers was abraham lincoln during the civil war. there was an absolute threat to the safety and health of americans, and he felt that it was absolutely necessary to act speedily and firmly. and that's what we're talking about here. we don't have any more time to wait. you can talk about persuasion, but we have a party -- the republican party -- that's a subsidiary of the oil and gas business. >> democrats take a lot of money from oil and gas, too. they're smart. they put their hands into everybody's pocket if they can get it in there. >> i understand that. but the safety and health of the american people of every single person is at risk here. it's particularly true for low

income communities and communities of color. >> yes. >> we have our climate plan if you look at it it's a bottoms up plan specifically justice based and it starts on day one because that's the extent of this emergency. if in fact we don't act that way, mother nature is not going to wait for the congress of the united states -- >> we live in it in the northeast, all over the country. we get a hundred year storm every other year. give me your top three points in the plan. >> okay. what i'd say is this. number one state of emergency on day one, a hundred days for congress to pass a green new deal or we use the emergency powers of the presidency. two, it's a people-centered plan where we have a ton of effort to hear from communities how they want us to do it, but particularly to make sure that the communities that have been most harmed will be protected and that displaced workers in industries that are being

affected will be specifically taken care of up front. and lastly, in order for this to work, we need to reassert american leadership around the world. this can't happen. it's a global problem. we need american global moral leadership. we need american global technical leadership. we need american global industrial leadership. this is a chance for america to be richer, better employed, higher wages, grow faster, be healthier, but also to reassert the idea of what we are as a country. that we're the country that leads the world in every way but in particular on a moral basis about freedom and justice. this is -- we have to do it. it's a huge opportunity for us to reassert the kind of country that we were formed to be, a country that steps up and does what's right when it has to be done. this is our chance. >> this is what we know at this

point. that's what this election is going to be about. what is the definition of america? what are we about? what do we reject? who are we? who are we not? tom steyer thank you for being here in the conversation with us tonight. >> chris cuomo, thank you. >> all right, and of course what to do about this president for the democrats it's all tangled up with how to replace him and how to have one of their own in there, right? that's part of their calculus. and on that score, the wizards of odds has some new numbers that might paint more of a picture of who might be their best chance and where. look at him. he's doing things, next. ♪

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henton. here's why. numbers are nothing without context. and if the democrats are trying to figure out who is their best messenger and what is their best message, they'll have to look at the numbers and in the places that matter. what do you see on the fresh stats? >> ohio, that is a state republicans have never won the presidency without winning ohio. and what do we see here? vice president joe biden leading donald trump by 8 points. all the other major democratic contenders bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, kamala harris are either trailing or tied with donald trump, like in the case of kamala harris. >> the idea of any shifting here, has anybody gotten weaker against trump, stronger against trump? >> no, this is something we've seen continuously throughout the election. we've seen that joe biden has continuously been doing well against donald trump in the different swing states. florida, pennsylvania, texas, all these states were won by donald trump in 2016 and joe biden is the one leading all of

them and more than that the only one leading in texas and doing better than all the other democrats in both florida and pennsylvania. >> how many republicans, let's call them anti-trump republicans, say they'll vote for biden? >> i think this is rather interesting nugget. this is from the ohio poll. essentially i broke this in the biden versus trump matchup and warren versus trump matchup. look among independents, look at this, elizabeth warren at 48%. joe biden at 55%. in the matchup against trump. look at republicans. elizabeth warren at 4%. look at joe biden, 10%. even though he's still trailing among republicans, he's getting much of that vote. >> how much of that turns into the lip biter at the end which is, i've got to go with my own? >> this is not bad form. i would say looking at the other polling numbers joe biden is the most popular candidate among nondemocratic primary voters of all the democrats running for president right now. >> so joe biden is muscling up. that means that somebody told

him you need to muscle up before this debate. what do you think right now with him and the rest of the democrats? >> take a look at this. this is rather interesting thing. i took an average of the live interview polls and broke it down just immediately following the first debate and then over the last few weeks. we see joe biden actually recovering. remember he dropped off after that first debate. he's recovered somewhat. he dropped off 30% of the national democratic poll average and basically you have this three-way tie for second place. 16% for warren. 14% for sanders, 12% for harris. we've seen that biden has been able to recover some of that ground. you'll see a lot of democrats go after him in that debate. >> what i want to watch as we go forward, every time the president inflames the national dialogue and pushes division, it will be interesting to see if these numbers go down and this one goes up. because that will be a direct metric for them to say, i need to beat this president. who is my best choice no matter how i feel.

>> if the argument is electibility, joe biden has the best point to make in this point. >> if he gets his ass whooped again in the debates. >> if he gets his butt whooped, then, yes, we did see his numbers drop after the first debate but over the past few weeks as he's gotten tougher, we've seen his poll numbers improve. south carolina, this is a very important contest. we see him overwhelmingly leading the field here. 39%. >> early in the calendar. big african-american vote so it gives you two metrics. >> look at this among african-americans, 51% at this point saying they're going to go with joe biden. >> people have to remember you can't just say oh, well they're african-americans, they'll vote for an african-american. they are known not only as a strong loyalist base within the party but moderates on policy. so if it's color versus concentration of policy, they may go with policy over identity. >> that's exactly right. kamala harris, bernie sanders,

all of these candidates are running to the left on health care. that's a particular issue with obamacare. african-americans are very proud of that achievement of president obama and are going with joe biden at this point. >> you've been working on numbers and people are not that happy with an extreme plan. >> they don't want medicare for all. >> i know i'm more vulgar than you, but this is going to be a very vulgar election, harry, so steel yourself. >> i'm going to protect myself. i'm an innocent young man -- >> some type of totem. >> harry hentson, the wizard of odds. it's typh days before the next debates on cnn. joe biden has to perform that night. why? because you have to start winning. we are all looking at the map with hillary clinton. at some point you have to win. joe biden, will it work for him to muscle up? here are the debaters. michael eric dyson, jennifer granholm, next. can my side be firm?

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week out from another debate. it's going to be a showdown here on cnn. joe biden muscling up, taking jabs at kamala harris on health care. cory booker on criminal justice reform. here's a taste. >> people will say for medicare for all but they're not going to tax the middle class because they don't need to do that. come on. what is this, a fantasy world here? the police department was stopping and frisking people, mostly african-american men. >> hey, if you want to talk about the past, everybody has one. now, is this posture for biden

more aggressive, a better way for him to go into this debate? let's have a debate about this ourselves. in fact, let's make it a great one and that's all about the people. and we have them. michael eric dyson, author of "what truth sounds like" and jennifer granholm. good to have you both. jennifer, you helped in the last debate. you are not helping in this debate because it's on cnn and you work here. but are you happy with this new posture from biden? >> yeah. here's what i would say on this, chris. i mean, first of all i was with a whole bunch of democrats today and they were saying, please, please don't have democrats attacking one another personally. >> too late. >> attack for sure on policy. great, okay. but if he's punched, he's going to be jabbing joe my guess is. he's going to punch right back. and i think people want to see he's a fighter. but i do think democrats are nervous about democrats tearing one another down because we've got to keep our eye on the prize which is the general election.

>> professor, my father used to joke that they only shoot backwards in cowboy movies, that the front-runner should always just look forward. but he got beat up by booker. he got beat up by harris. and democrats keep saying they want a warrior and they feel they're getting into one of the dirtiest fights ever in this election. do you see biden doing anything else? >> sure, all is fair in love and war in the democratic contest for the presidency. look, i think governor granholm is right. we don't want to see personal attacks launched in the trumpian mold where people denigrate another human being. but going after another record is perfectly fine. and being able to give as well as one takes is absolutely fine as well. i think that the perception that joe biden was somehow outclassed, outgassed and then outtalked may have to be dealt with, and he has a right to address that. at the same time let the records

speak for themselves and he has unmasked what a 40-some odd year record. he's got more to come at. therefore, there's more material for his opponents. i think it's absolutely appropriate for him to be able to defend himself in light of the principled assaults that may be launched against him. >> look, we talk about race on this show a lot because i respect the context and nature of the conversation that has to happen because we're nowhere that we need to be. however, when we look at what happened with kamala harris in that last debate, that wasn't an off-the-cuff remark. that wasn't a, hey, joe, let me remind you. i was someone who got busted, it worked for me so you need to wake up. it was calculated. she had the ads and t-shirts ready. it was as close of an ad hominen as we've seen. now, if that's the kind of debate you're going to have then democrats have to stop saying you need it to be cleaner because she was awarded for that

just as booker was in the polls. >> yeah, but everybody does have a past as you said, whether it is 40 years ago which people want to hear less about or whether it's something more recent. that's fair game. then the question is how do you quickly pivot and talk to people about what you're going to do for them. 40 years ago i mean half the electorate wasn't even alive. it's not relevant to them, and joe biden, by the way, he did, i thought, a really nice job of apologizing and sort of suggesting to people looking forward in south carolina when he was campaigning last week, he said basically, i'm not the same person that i was when i was sent to the senate when i was 29 years old. i have changed. people do change. i am not perfect. there are things i wouldn't do the same way, but here we are. and let me tell you what i'm going to do for you. that is the kind of message i think democrats want to hear. >> you both are nodding your head. both of you feel free to attack me as being a cynic. >> that's because he's from detroit and we share that same -- >> in fairness the professor has been emailing me and saying on

this show for a long time that the democrats have to get straight what they want to do which is beat the president. this is my question to you about that, professor. i see this election even the death penalty stuff that came up with barr, what is that? that's a metaphor point of the new harshness. this election is about identity, not about health care. if it goes to people's feelings of security and what government should do for them, but this is going to be an identity game and play on the president's terms because he's the president. and he's going to be coming about who we are, who we're not, why you're a bum, why you stink, why you're weak, why you're old, a woman not up to the job and you're going have to be ready for that or you'll lose. do you accept that proposition? >> even today the judgment made about the death penalty, who does that disproportionately affect? african-american people. the very people who always decry identity politics, why do you people play identity politics? all politics have an identity if it's your identity that's at stake.

so that whiteness has been seen as a universal and, therefore, a neutral forum within which people make judgments about what's going on. for instance, think about the argument that kamala harris was calculated but uncle joe wasn't. you tell me the refusal to apologize is not calculated to look tough? what did he end up looking like? he ended up looking like an old white guy who doesn't know he ought to apologize when someone says you hurt me and then gin up the argument, make principled assaults upon them because he could have well said kamala harris has some vulnerabilities that need to be articulated that he could do. >> he blew that opportunity. let's be fair for one second. >> it's both/and, not either/or. >> what happens when you apologize in politics? what happens? you get beat up on for apologizing. >> but he apologized anyway. >> i know. i don't know why he did because i don't know what it gets you in this business. that's why the president never apologizes. >> here's the point. if at the very beginning he had said, look, you're absolutely

right. i was wrong but i did something 30, 40 years ago but i've changed and since then i've been hanging out with a black guy named barack obama and by the way, i defended him and went to war for him and saw that janet jackson has raised the question what have you done for me lately. let me tell you what i've done more recently that allows me to defend myself on this stage. >> i don't mean to be a cynic in terms of the power of forgiveness. i'm just saying in politics it's not often rewarded. i had say this mr. biden may be doing harris and booker and anybody else he gets into it with a favor. because democrats need to see any of these potentials tested because this is the most fearsome politician we've seen in my lifetime on the national stage, president trump. and i mean that as a compliment. the man knows how to fight in a way that the media will reward and his base will respond. so you've got to see if they're up to it. >> no question.

no question. people want to see people getting in the ring and battling, battling fiercely over ideas. they completely want that. and yes, record is fair game, no doubt about that either. but people much more want to see the future. what is going to happen to me and my life in the future? and i don't think that apologizing or at least saying you know what? i've evolved, i've grown, i mean i have done stuff in the past year i would redo again. i've done stuff in the past days i would redo. it's not human to suggest we are static as human beings. dr. dyson, you're a preacher. you understand the power of, you know, forgiveness and i think that there is a place for that. if for somebody who has lived a long time to understand the power of evolution. all of that is to say, yes, fight. yes, come out swinging. come out swinging on ideas and persuade us that your ideas are the best for the people.

>> but you know what, chris cuomo, you know what the real deal is. donald trump has an ability and a privilege to say and do nasty things that an african-american or woman won't. if hillary clinton had done half the stuff this man is doing she would have been berated. if barack obama had taken -- >> because the left cares about this in a candidate. you guys care about this stuff. you guys will judge on this. his people will not. >> a black man can't be angry, a black woman can't be as angry as donald trump, can't be as nasty and as disregarding the consequences of his own speech. and i'm telling you that's a form of privilege these candidates don't have. and as a result of that fighting has to be done in very strategic and very politics fashion. >> very true. you must understand the rules at play even if you want to change and reject those rules. i respect you for using that word on this show because it is perfectly -- look, you got the metaphor here.

you've got a white anglo-saxon man who is preaching to america his prejudices are well founded and that the division is necessary. and you are going to have a monumental task in front of you. it'll go to the core of the soul of this country. >> out of his mind and out of his depth. >> michael eric dyson, always a plus. jennifer granholm, value added as always. i've got one thing to show you. here's a metaphor i was taught about how you need to fight in a primary as a democrat. when somebody attacks you, you go like this. hey, take it easy. i don't want any trouble. you look defensive, right? but look how close your hand has gotten to your opponent, and then you hit back. that's what you'll have to see in this debate. not ugliness. disagreement with decency but somebody that can put their hands up when being attacked and knows how to smack back at an opponent. it's a metaphor that worked for me. i was like 12 when somebody

taught it to me. in terms of the substance of it, the biggest issue that came oufts this mueller probe yesterday should be obvious. about what it should mean in the election. election protection. but it's still not happening. republicans are stopping it. why? the president isn't demanding it. why? we're going to talk to one of the heads of his re-election campaign. what is the way forward? next. what's going on? it's the 3pm slump. should have had a p3. oh yeah. should have had a p3. need energy? get p3. with a mix of meat, cheese and nuts. what sore muscles? what with advpounding head? .. advil is... relief that's fast. strength that lasts. you'll ask... what pain? with advil.

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i don't know how much more proof we need of this. i would see it as dispositive at this point, but president trump's own fbi director just told us all today the same thing that mueller did yesterday, that the head of intelligence has, that the, you know, our elections are under attack. >> in the last few years, we've seen many examples of cyberactors targeting political campaigns. we expect much of the same in 2020. >> russia, china, north korea, maybe even more and more pernicious why? now they know it works. nearly two dozen election security bills have been introduced in this congress.

none is going anywhere, and we haven't heard anything from this president except that it's not real and that he believes that putin had nothing to do with it. kaley mcanany is with his campaign. good to have you on the show to get this perspective. help me understand this one because now that it is case closed, and i think that the president has a fair chance of making that argument after yesterday, why not jump on election protection and say russian interference is real. we've got to fix it? >> well, he has. and i'll give you several things that have been done by both congress and the president. dhs has worked with more than a thousand localities and states to ensure that their systems have integrity and are protected. the president issued two executive orders to enhance our cybersecurity. and by the way i would note they made it a crime to hack our elections and they provided $380

million to states, more than 1,050 localities. a lot has been done, chris. it's false to say nothing has been done and no one cares about this issue because this administration has. and certainly more than obama who did nothing. >> first of all, we didn't have the risk then. you can argue obama mishandled it when he found out about it in 2016 and he played it too safe and made the mistake of going to mitch mcconnell and trying to have it be bipartisan. but that was then, this is now. this president has never said the following. russia interfered in our election, they're trying to do it again, and i will stop them. never. >> president trump said on may 3rd russia cannot interfere in our election. he has said that before, and i don't think you can leave president obama out of this because this threat went back to 2014. that is when the intel community -- >> it went back further than that. the point is that is a distraction from the now. when the president stood on the stage of helsinki, if you want to look back, when he sat there, he said this.

>> all i can do is ask the question. my people came to me, dan coats came to me and some others, they said they think it's russia. i have president putin. he just said it's not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. >> boy, oh, boy, you want to go back to obama when he said the -- to then-president medvedev after the election, i'll have more leeway on policy. you guys made it seem like it was traitorous. yet he said that on the stage in helsinki and you want people to believe he cares about the issue. >> first, ambassador bolton noted the very first issue brought up in that meeting with putin was election interference. >> by whom? >> by president trump to vladimir putin. he brought up election interference. i wasn't in that -- >> like in that last press conference where he said hey, don't interfere in our election again. >> it was brought up, chris. and i would contrast this, by the way, to susan rice, obama's nsa national security advisor

who said cut it out and stand down when the intel community said we must act against russia. by contrast, this president has implemented sanctions, crippling sanctions -- >> who made him put the sanctions in place? congress. >> no one made him. >> he didn't introduce the sanctions. he didn't want to do the sanctions. he was forced to do the sanctions. >> you know as well as i do he's implemented sanctions. he's closed the russian consul, two of them. he's expelled 60 russian intel officers. >> and he's stood on the world stage and said he believes putin over his own intel community. >> he came out right after that and said i meant to say that russia did have a role -- >> he lied to the american people and tried to say he didn't say what we all heard him say. >> he did not lie. >> looking backwards is bad for you. let's look forward and say why doesn't he now say election protection is paramount, mcconnell stop playing games, put this on the floor, act the way he did at the press conference yesterday about this issue.

if you don't do it, you're fake, you're bad, you're untruthful, and i don't like you. say that to people who don't pass protections -- >> he has. yes, he has and his actions speak louder than anything -- >> this is man who acts by tweet. >> anything president obama did. the sanctions have -- >> he didn't have the same threat. >> yes, he did. going back to 2014 -- >> this happened in 2016 is when it became this. >> the dnc server was hacked and they knew about attempts to hack this. >> and he made the mistake of not wanting to corrupt the election and going to mitch mcconnell to see if this could be a bipartisan thing and that was his mistake. bad on them. >> no, president obama's own national security advisor said stand down. president obama did nothing. even his own russian ambassador -- >> and i have a report in my hand from republican senators saying one of the first things they need to do, their second recommendation is the united states should communicate to

adversaries that it will view an attack on its election infrastructure as a hostile act and we'll respond accordingly. you've never heard this president say it to the person who interfered the most. and this is a man who loves to threaten people that he wants to threaten. not here. >> he has repeatedly said it. >> he has not repeatedly said it. >> he has acted. he's stopped nor 2, the biggest geoeconomic project in russia is no longer going on because of president trump because of his sanctions and actions. he's -- >> why won't he tell -- why are these republicans in the senate saying we need to do more and these bills need to be bipartisan and mcconnell shoots down? >> the bills passed by mcconnell have been unanimous. >> but they're insufficient. >> narrow on partisan lines and would have done nothing. the two today were partisan

bills. the bills that have -- >> how were they partisan? by saying that you have to notify the fbi when a foreign actor comes to you? >> yeah, first of all, again, it's already a crime to accept assistance from a foreign government. >> what if it's less than that? what if you actually don't get something of value but they still come to you? that's something we now know you need to report. >> when obama toured europe and mccain did and romney did, it would have required them to report every single conversation or meet -- >> it's not true. >> -- with someone while overseas. >> only if that person made a solicitation to help them in the campaign. kayleigh, i've got to leave it there. i appreciate you having it with me. we will continue it. >> thank you, chris. all right. tough news. 16 u.s. marines arrested on their own base. right in the middle of gathering in formation. 16. not easy to imagine. and what they are accused of is horrible. but we have to talk about it. it's instructive. not of all marines, but because of these.

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an investigation into human smuggling turned into a mass arrest today at camp pendleton in california. 16 marines were taken into custody for migrant smuggling

and drug related offenses. the drug offenses had nothing to do with moving across the border. but this comes just weeks after two marines from the same battalion were charged with transporting undocumented immigrants for money. d. lemon is here. let's say the obvious first. a few bad apples not reflective of the bunch. u.s. marines are arguably the top of the food chain of people committed to our freedom. but this does shine a light on how if you want to worry about who's sneaking people across the border, you don't have to just look at migrants. >> yeah, which is absolutely true. chris, i don't even know what to say about this story as i read it because we have such respect for our men and women in uniform. i can't believe it, but i guess the moral of the story is that it can happen to anyone. good people can go bad. i hate to criticize our men and women in uniform because they do such a great job, but this, if true, is terrible, terrible activity and they deserve whatever punishment they get. >> yeah, i think you call it out because we do respect them. >> right.

>> and we want to show that there is a standard and they have to live up to it, maybe even more than the rest of the us. >> right. >> they're kind of the last line of people that we expect the best from. >> no one is immune from bad behavior. no one is immune from bad behavior. >> they're human. but, again, you won't see the president going after the marines for smuggling migrants across the border. >> absolutely true. >> why? because it doesn't sell his fear and divisiveness to attack these smugglers. if they were other mexicans or migrants -- >> oh, my gosh. anyone from central america, honduras, oh, my gosh. as you call it, the brown what? >> menace. >> menace. i'm going to have congresswoman madeleine dean on. everyone wants to know what's going to happen. she's with the judiciary committee. everyone wants to know what democrats are going to do. i've been here in washington. i'm still here. i'm trying to figure out what is the plan going forward? we're getting ready for the debates as well. we're trying to figure out what is going on and who is going to be the best candidate to take on

president trump. that's the whole point of this, right? also there is this story. have you heard about this ole miss story? >> yes. what happened at this emmett till statue. the kids in front of it with the guns. >> they are facing -- these are students. facing possible civil rights charges and civil rights investigation for things that they posted online. they were with guns. they don't know if they, in fact, did something to the monument, right? desecrated the monument. but it's all under investigation. >> you know what's going on. i'll be back with you in a second, d. lemon. you want to know what's going on? the federal government is bringing back the death penalty. why? because that's what this campaign is about. it's about the new harshness. social instructions and different types of brutality. so, what is the right move here? you have to look at this policy deeply and in different ways. i will do that for you in the closing argument next.

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so, this president wants to start killing people again on the federal level in the name of justice. only three have received the death penalty since 1976 on the federal level and attorney general barr now wants to nearly double that in just a six-week span. should we have it? righteous retribution and the validation of vengeance. this new appeal to harshness sounds powerful, but is taking a life a show of strength? let's look at it different ways. not to jesus. his core message for believers was love, mercy, so if you're pro-life and pro-death penalty, you've got an inconsistency. and if you argue, well, fetuses are innocent and these people are guilty, then send any

christian back to the source. did jesus say you decide who lives and dies? but that's politics in religion and it gets muddy. ultimately, what about practicality? does this policy work? does it deter people from killing because they fear the penalty? take a look. graph of states and homicide rates where the death penalty is in effect. more killing, not less. so if it doesn't deter, is it justice, is it fairness under law? there has been constant security in the courts since fuhrman v. georgia in the '70s, legal debates about how the punishment is carried out mainly. lately mostly about which drugs should be used. however, if you look at the numbers, the story of unfair application emerges, and it's not as simple as blacks get it the most. on one level, blacks and whites are about the same percentage of the prison population and of death row. of course you have a lot more whites than blacks in the country but that gets complicated. go deeper. when do we find a murder worthy of this penalty?

half of homicide victims are african-american, but the death penalty is way more prevalent when the victim is white. and if you look at what happens when a black person kills a white person, 290 executions. white person kills a black person, 21. 290, 21. the biggest obstacle to fairness, this penalty cannot be reversed. so when there's a mistake, then what? well, have there been? yeah, 166 exonerations since 1973. well, at least we haven't ever killed anybody wrongly. we don't know. courts don't take up cases of dead people so we can't say how many were killed in error by the united states, murdered in that case. these factors have made the death penalty a vestige of a less evolved society. how do we know? look at the company we keep by having a policy like this. china, iran, saudi arabia, iraq, pakistan, egypt, somalia, and

there we are, the united states. you are the company you keep. even here, a society that is distinguished in part by violence, be honest, popularity of killing people has fallen and we are now split, about 50/50, and that is the stage for this election. this president knows we are divided and he is pushing on prejudice. that's what a demagogue does. prove it. muslims, stay out. brown folks, go home. if someone protests at a rally, knock them out. insult the free press if you don't like what they report. and now the ultimate new appeal to harshness, here we kill people. you won't find a justification in the numbers, nor comfort in the law books or certainly the good book. this is about the soul of society. what do you want to be about? the instruction here is death begets death.