a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! i'm michael smerconish in washington, d.c. i'm not going to be as polite this time. with those words this beak former vice president joe biden set the stage for a pair of presidential debates in detroit, that biden reamaintenance to crowded democratic field and in head to head match-ups with the president trump was confirmed in new poles this week. and the president took umbrage with fox news after it showcased a survey which trump loses to biden by ten points. president said, fox news so different from bethwhat they uso be. now fox polls which have always been terrible to me. they had me losing big to krookd

hillary have me down to sleepy joe. perhaps he'd be more concerned if he followed the money. not the margin to be expected of an incumbent against aun determined opponent and if money talks it is kamala harris's name that's a been shouted. the wagering site ranks her most likely to win the nomination, higher than any other democrat. interestingly, biden and elizabeth warren have an equal shot winning the anonymous but biden a higher promise of becoming president. so all eyes will be on center stage where biden will be sandwiched between harris and booker. but there is this. this week is the last dance for certain of the democratic contenders. the rules for the next debates in september are more demanding. to participate in tuesday and

wednesday's debates here on cnn, candidates needed 65,000 unique donors in at least 20 states including at least 200 donors in each state. or a candidate must have earned at least 1% polling average in three separate surveys. but the rules for the third round of debates in september are much more demanding in terms of polling data and donors. so biden best not ignore what might come from the fringes. on his far left will be new york city mayor bill de blasio. and to his center right were kirsten ji kirsten gillibrand. kamala harris proved the best way to raise her is try to get the king. -- attempt a hail mary at biden's expense, the front runner will literally be getting hit from all angles.

joining me from the hill, her latest piece "team biden fires back. you can't let people say bs and not respond to it. and his debate teams that won five national championships. and three times national debate coach of the year. if you were advising a second tier candidate who will be on the stage the second night with joe biden, would you tell them to train their sights on the former vice president? >> not necessarily, actually. no. one of the problems with the second tier candidates is they are second tier. they aren't going to be elected president. so one of the things that history's taught us is that second tier candidates have a chance to become president in the future as long as they don't offend people. one thing about attacking biden is wile it might work to bring joe biden down slightly, there is no indication anywhere that

it ever actually elevates those lower tier candidates into the upper tier status. in fact what it does is turns off some of the voters. maybe some joe biden voters now don't really appreciate some of joe's policies after a lower tier candidate attacks him. but they also really don't like that lower tier candidate now either because they made them mad and they made them uncomfortable. >> a follow-up, todd for you. does joe biden have some sensitivity in the way in which he responds if it is to both kamala harris and cory booker that he faces a challenge given that they are both candidates of color? and of course, you know, the strength of people of color in the democratic primary and nomination process is really a serious consideration. >> yeah joe biden is staring right into the reverse pit of doom. debaters get around and try to make cool names for stuff because we're generally not very cool people. here is what happens in this debate. when kamala harris brings up race again joe biden has to be

very careful because if he decides to go on the attack, which he says he's going to do. but if he does that in any way that is imprecise in his language or his tone he's setting himself up for a new criticism, which is what i'm calling the reverse pit of doom. for instance, let's say that joe biden attacks back. here is all harris or booker have to say. don't lecture me on racism. i've lived it. that is going hurt. >> amy your reporting has been great houn team biden is getting ready. you say they have specific lines of attack for harris and booker should the challenges come. explain. >> i think michael what they are aiming to do as an advisor told me yesterday, they are expecting the unexpected. so i think he's going in. he's going over with his team things that anything and everything in debate prep to make it seem like he hasn't seen these attacks for the first time.

to go over them. so he is going to be ready. you are not going to see him kind of take the more statesman like approach this time. i think he is going to throw punches. as someone told me the other day, someone that is on his team. i think people want to see him throw a punch because that is part of his problem. he was unable to do that the last time. he's proving that he is the most electable. but he hasn't proven that he's a fighter. and you need to be a fighter when you are up against president trump. >> amy i don't want to overlook night one. night one among others features bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. my perception and i think borne out by the polling data is that she is the more ascendant of the two and probably at bernie's expense. what do you anticipate from those two in particular vis-a-vis one another? >> i don't think they are going to be particularly -- i don't think they are going to throw punches and go after each other. they remain friends and both ally on both sides say that you are not going to see that. but i do think that they are

going to draw contrast with each other. and there are contrasts. they are not the same type of sure they appeal to progressives but they have different issues. they appeal to different people in that demographic. so i think you are going to see them say this is what i'm for. you are definitely going to see elizabeth warren try to own that night as she owned the first round of debates and i is think she was probably a little disappointed that she's not going up against joe biden this time around because i think she kind of wants to prove she is is more electable. >> todd, you have coached so many collegiate debate champions. out aftof all on the stage both nights who has the most chops as the debater? and does it matter? >> it does matter somewhat. in the first debate i thought the person with the best chops. three of them. harris was good. pete buttegieg was good and obviously elizabeth warren was good. they all have particular skill

sets. i actually look for pete buttegieg to have a good debate because he's be on the same stage as the sanders and warren. his age obviously makes a difference between the two. plus remember he's the more moderate of the three candidates. so i think he'll be able to contrast his ideas nicely with theirs. at this point most of the top tier candidates are quite good at debates. so do they have a bad debate? and if they do, why? >> war you most looking for either tuesday or wednesday night? what do you most want to know. >> i want to see if elizabeth warren can prove that she's sort of ascendant, that she has sort of the one to beat this time around because she has run such a stellar campaign pretty much all the way around so i think people are looking for that. and i think all eyes are on biden. this isn't his last dance. he's the front runner by far. but i think a lot of people want to see like i said before that he's the fighter, that he is not going to be this passive guy.

that he's not going let people walk all over him. and that remains to be seen. >> but you have -- thank you, i was just going to add he has to pick his topics carefully when he does want to attack. >> nicely done guys. thank you for being here. >> i'll read some responses throughout the program. this i think from facebook. what do we have? bernie is the only one who can beat trump. dave, it is not what the data shows. biden continues to benefit from the perception that not only does he have experience, etc. but democrats want a winner and a perception which is born out. take a look at the ohio polling we saw this week. in a head-to-head contest he's the strongested can. the question is whether he can survive this gauntlet of the democratic nomination and caucus process. up next a school board voted

to remove this mural because of complaints and depictions about slavery and oppression. but those topics are what it is supposed to be ab. have the culture wars gone too far? and this week i went to lunch. i had sliders and chicken fingers. there was no meat in any sliders. there was no chicken in my wings. 24 states now pushing laws preventing vegan products from being called meat. what the alternative meat makers fighting back. who is right? i want to know. go to my website. smerconish com, and answer the question. should it be illegal for vegan food items to be called burgers steaks or dogs? uh, i'll look into it. (phone rings) lisa jones! lisa: (on phone) hey carl, what are you charging me for online equity trades? (nervous chuckle) lisa: and do i get my fees back if i'm not happy? like a satisfaction guarantee? ugh. schwab! lisa: oh right, i'm calling schwab.

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so, i'll wake up ready for anything? oh, we've got your back. so, you can really promise better sleep? not promise. prove. and now, save up to $800 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. ends saturday. the latest target in the culture war that's brought down confederate monuments is a high school mural. this 1600 square feet depression era mural in san francisco's washington high school depicts the life of george washington. it was painted in 1936 by russian artist victor arnatova a communist who was highly critical of american's history of racism. in one panel, gun carrying

communists pass what looks to be a slain native american. another depicts washingtoning negotiates a slave owner. it's been criticized by an ad hoc committee of students and other whose say it gore fies slavery. genocide, manifest destiny. white suppression and oppression. a meeting on the topic deinvolved into a screaming match. >> i'm a licensed psychologist. the trauma is real! why don't you believe the trauma is real! why don't you believe the trauma is real! believe the trauma is real. my daughter can't go there. >> the school board votes 6-0 to cover the mural. it will cost $6,000 before court costs. but a decision urges the board to reconsider.

joining us is the wib willy brown former may of san francisco. he wrote an article entitle "the new america, those who yell loudest win." mayor how do you see it in and why? >> well it's -- frankly i don't understand why anybody would not want the actual things that occurred in this country to be appropriately depicted for educational purposes. there is no other way to get the discussion going. and that is exactly what the artist had in mind when he so displayed the horror of being part of george washington's slave family. >> one of those who was shouted down was a guy with the best body of knowledge about the artist who wanted to explain where he was coming from. am i right? >> that is exactly right. you got to know that in this country when you talk about taking away a statue of robert

e. lee, that is one thing. but removing a demonstration that constantly generates dialogue between people as this particular mural does san educational tool. it is actually and should be a part of the curriculum. >> so often the battles devolve into the left versus the right, red states and blue states. but on editorial caught my eye. i'm going put it up and read you something. they said rather than the usual left righty divide in this instance the fight is primarily among liberals. those who want the mural removed because they consider it an traumatically offensive reminder. and those who want anything but an hone -- including husband less than admirable aspects. talk about a teachable moment. is this a fight? among liberals? >> it is at the moment. it is a fight among liberals

then but then again you cannot assume that because your a liberal you are well informed because you are a liberal you are artistically inclined. because you are liberal you are culturally oriented. that happens not to be the case. and believe me. it is unfortunate that it paints san francisco dramatically different in somewhat again to some of the other places in the country as not well-informed and certainly as not liberal. >> i read a letter that was sent to the "new york times" by three members of the school board. and they were defending their position and they said for 80 years this has traumatized students. now i pointed out at the intro that your daughter is a graduate of that high school. for 80 years has this been traumatizing students? >> not at all. as a matter of fact frankly the mural was an instructional tool for dialogue in my family.

we alwaysed a dinner discussed what occurred in the school, what occurred on the job or some other place. and to have this particular opportunity, those school board members obviously don't know what they are talking about. >> okay. a naive question. why in the hell would it cost -- assuming it were to go away or literally be whitewashed. why the hell would it cost $600,000. i think a couple of buckets of paint and a couple buddies i could knock it out for a hundred. >> if you were going to do it, clearly you could do it with a roller and some paint for sherman williams or whomever and it would not cost $600,000. understand however. we'll have to do an environmental impact report. we'll have to make the appropriate kind of safety systems around removing this particular item or whitewashing in some fashion.

we will have to make sure it is union labor who is actually doing this. and then it of course has to be appropriately supervised. a combination of all of those things makes it incredibly expensive. those school board members if they want to move it are to go raise the money themselves or donate it. >> you are sound like a conservative. final question. where does this all end up? >> well. i suspect that the school board is going to have to seriously reconsider. because for one time it is the students who are saying don't remove the mural. it is not their parents. >> mayor thanks so much for being here. >> thank you. >> what are you saying on my social media? my twitter facebook comments. liberal snowflakes continue to attempt to erase history. pin heads. look, mayor is no far right guy. and i think he agrees with the fact that there is a healthy

debate here and a wonderful teaching moment that will be ignored and removed if in fact the mural goes away. i think it is a wonderful thing. if it were in a school where one of ours had been educated i'd be thrilled. and similarly at the dinner table would be using it as a teachable moment. up ahead a massive lawsuit seeking to punish pharmaceutical companies for saturating the u.s. with billions of pain pills. does it have any chance of curbing the opioid epidemic? plus veggie substitute for meat so popular these days they have even hit fast food chains like burger king and dunkin' donuts bull 24 states have introduced legislation saying it can can't be called "meat"? are they right. >> to all you people out there, stop by and enjoy. and to all you chickens, you're friared.

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it is it settles a lawsuit pending in federal court scheduled to begin trial the october will be the biggest civil case in u.s. history. the subject opioids. the consolidates case in cleveland pitts 2,000 city, county, native american tribes and other plaintiffs against

pharmaceutical companies. last week it was revealed that drug companies saturated the united states with 76 billion pain pills over seven years. lenny bernstein is a healthy and medicine reporter for the washington post who's covered the case for the last three years. his latest piece, opioid makers say there is no proof they are responsible for the epidemic's harms. why ohio? why is this pending in ohio? >> michael t case was consolidated before a federal court judge in ohio. and because there are so many plaintiffs, he decided that he was going take two counties. cuyahoga and summit and use them as test cases. they are going to go first to see how the arguments fair in court. and then all sides are going to assess after that. >> lenny, it seems unusual in a case where political subdivisions are the plaintiffs. why is that the case? >> because the epidemic has had

an impact on them as well as the people who have been using the drugs. they have had to pay for emergence care, for law enforcement. for courts. for babies who weren't dictated to drugs. for kids they have had to put in foster care and their argument is, listen, drug companies you showered these 76 billion pills down on this country when you knew or should have known they were being diverted to illegal use. now off the help us pay for the consequences. >> summarize what both sides say now. what is the pitch? the plaintiffs? >> their pitch is just that. you caused the epidemic which started 20 years ago and now has evolved to heroin and then later fentanyl. and caused us untold billions of dollars in costs to take care of the things i just mentioned. you also created a public nuisance. in other words you damaged the health of people in our

communities. the way, say, a factory, that was polluting a waterway has damaged the health of people in our communities. that is what the plaintiffs are saying. >> i have to billy that part of the -- believe that part of the defense is going raise causation. you can't lay all this off on us, if any of it. >> precisely. the plaintiffs, at least for now, they are relying on a lot of aggregate data. and the pharmaceutical company whose remember come from all different points in the supply chain. manufacturers, distributors, large retail chains. they are saying can you really show that our our pills are the direct cause of all of these harms that you are alleging? they are also making another interesting argument, which is if you are saying we worked in concert to do this because the plaintiffs have brought a sort of racketeering cause as well. how do you explain the fact that we are fierce competitors and fighting each other tooth and nail for different shares of the

market? >> what about the role of physicians? do the pharmaceutical companies point at doctors and say hey but for them writing all the scripts we wouldn't be in this position as a country? >> constantly. they have been saying that for years since the epidemic began. and there is certainly truth to that. one doctor who is willing to sell his prescription pad for cash and hand out drugs to anybody who wants them, to users and to dealers, can create an enormous amount of damage. especially locally. think about the way one crack house could ruin an entire neighborhood. so the pharmaceutical companies have been saying that forever. the law however makes the distributors, the wholesale irs, the middle men responsible for knowing what's going on with these drugs, for finding suspicious orders of pharmaceuticals and reporting them to the dea. >> well there are loofrt players in this dynamic between manufacturer and actual use and one of them i presume are the

pharmacies. how do they factor into this litigation if at all? is there a claim that says pharmacist xy or z, you should have known fulfilling that precipitation that it was being abused. >> yes. that is why some of the plaintiffs have sued the large retail chains. your cvss, walgreens, walmart in fact. what they are saying is the situation is very much analogous with doctors. pharmacists have a corresponding responsibility tnot to give out drugs when they knew or should have known or suspected they were giving them to illegal users and dealers. and to the extent they didn't do that on a large scale they are culpable as well. that is what the plaintiffs allege. >> does it settle? >> i think that is an open question. i think the federal court judge is encouraging settlement. has all along. i think it is a question of who

blinks first. who feels this trial is less in their interest than settling and we may not know until the two cases go forward. >> lenny. excellent summary. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> yocomments from twitter. opioids a self induced crisis. their own responsibility. wow really duck whisperer? >> what about the individual who becomes dependent because this is what's been prescribed for them and now they just can't get off? it will be very interesting to see the outcome of that case. i don't mean to suggest that any one of the parties bears all the culpability. i think there is plenty of blame to go around. this burger has coconut fat, ground wheat and potato. do they get to call it a burger? 24 states are saying no. is that right? should it be illegal for vegan

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on tuesday i had lunch with an old law school professor of mine. he picked the spot. the greyhound cafe out of philadelphia. two impossible sliders and buffalo chicken wings. and it was delicious. no meat in the burgers or the

wings. my lunch partner a national renowned animal rights activist. the food entirely plant based. brought home a controversy that people trying to stop plant based food if being labelled a meat. the animal meat side has worked to prevent legislation to prevent the practice. but the animal plant based industry is fighting back. joining me now is jessica almy, director of good food institute. a non profit. and dr. mike strahan a veterinarian commissioner of agriculture and forestry in louisiana. october of 2020 the been a on vegan food using meat on its label will take effect in his state. dr. strain, let me show you, let me show everybody a commercial right now for the impossible whopper. take a look at this.

i want to know if you have an issue with it. there you see a burger on the grill. 100% whopper. 0 burkhar 0% beef is what it said. the impossible whopper. what duke of that advertising? >> well if you are going to advertise an impossible whopper that is fine. as long as people know that it is not meat. that it is plant-based. what our legislation does is clearly says that what is on the label is what the product is. so if you want to have a burger, and as long as you know that it is plant based. that is fine. but you can't call it a meat burger when it is not meat. all we're say stag the label must confirm to the identity of the food product. >> and is the purpose to protect consumers or is it to prevent competition? because i must tell you. having eat an vegan male theal week which was delicious, i can understand why the status quo,

the meet industry would be very very nervous about what is coming. >> no. i think what we're trying to do is that, you know, i'm charged with enforcing standards of identity. and if you look at throughout all of the code of federal regulations and state law, we have specific standards of identity. and what we're saying is, whatever the product is, is that it must be exactly what's on the level. everyone loves competition, but if you are going sell, for instance, rice, it needs to be rice. aromatic rice, short grain, medium, white rice, brown rice. that is fine. but cauliflower rice, for instance, is not a type of rice. what's happening is more and more you have product, they are creating new products but they want to use the identity of a known product to market and sell the new product. just call it what it is. that is all. and we have a duty to make sure that consumers know exactly what they are getting.

consumers and the new consumers that are coming up that will be buying these products. and so whether or not it is meat, poultry, beef, shrimp, crawfish. we need to make sure that that is what the product is. >> jessica, does everyone love competition? what is really going on here in your opinion? >> yeah this is an absurd law. and the other state laws that are like it are also absurd. this is an imaginary crisis. no one is mistaking a veggie burger for meet. what is really going on is producers are afraid of the new competition. and they have enlisted the government's help to sensor the labels of their competitors. >> i want to show another ad. this is from dunkin' donuts. what it says is plant-based protein patty. jessica you first. react to dunkin' donut's ad

there. >> that looks delicious. i think it is a great product i'm excited dunkin' donuts has it. i don't see how anyone could be misled by that product. people are choosing plant based because they understand they are plant based. that is the so state laws are unnecessary. they are not about consumers and they are about protecting the producers and also violate the first amendment. >> dr. strain have you eaten any of the food we're introduce hearing and if not would you be interested in eating say a impossible whopper. >> sure. i'm from south louisiana. so there are very few things we don't eat. and when you get to the crux of the matter, you are talk about plant based meat. that is the crux of the matter. you are saying meat is not

produced from plants. there is a standard identity of what meat is. there is a standard identity of what shrimp is. or crawfish. all we're saying is that if you are going to have a plant-based hamburger patty. clearly say that. if it is going to be an imfact meat product. say imitation meat. if it is a product where you are combining things, make sure that is on the label. everyone loves competition. we like looking at new different product bus the bottom line is just have truth in what you are selling. and the other part is that you know when we talk aborierks abo rice, shrimp, crawfish, beef. those industries have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to promote their products and now you have a new wave of products that are being created to look like, to have the texture of and trying to compete with the taste of and in order

to basically utilize the marketing that hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on. so if you are going to have hamburger, burger made from a plant based, say it is imitation meat but you can't call it meat because it is not meat. meat comes from a live creature. >> you get the final word. go ahead. >> there is no trademark on those words in the english language. and it violates the first amendment for governments to come in and sensor products on the marketplace to sensor the words they are putting on the label. no one is confused by a veggie burger. there is no evidence that anyone has ever eat an veggie burger thinking it is a hamburger. these laws are really an overstep of government coming in and penalizing people sometimes with the threat of jail time for calling a veggie burger a veggie burg zbrer it is a great conversation. thank you both for teeing it up for us. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> let's check on your tweets and facebook comments thsmts

comes from facebook. if it ain't meat don't use meat terms. >> okay. ray frankie. how about this? beefsteak tomato. same thing right? i guess that would also need to -- frisbee golf. is it really golf if you are using a frisbee? i could sit here and go through a laundry list of things that are already part of the lex cob that we haven't seen to complain about until now. my hunch is that what's crystallized this conversation is, and maybe it is always been this way. i don't know. i've never tried it before. that they perfected the taste it. tastes really good. so it is appealing to folks who here to fore would not have been interested. answer the survey question at smerconish.com. should it be illegal for vegan o vegetarian food items to be called burgers, steaks or dogs. back when he was mayor of

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this week boris johnson became the uk's new prime minister. he met with the queen, he addressed parliament. appointed ministers. he started making changes. it remains unclear if he'll be able to push through brexit, the issue that helped propel him into office but in november of 2014 he was here on cnn to discuss my book on winston churchill. and looking back the politically incorrect inanecdote he recounts of churchill is --. >> i'd be thrilled if you would quickly tell the story. >> besse braddock this rather large proportioned socialist mp coming out of the treasury, slight i the worse for wear and she says winston you are drunk. and he says madam you are ugly

but i will be sober in the morning. and i say you couldn't say that sort of thing now days. it is too rude but he was generally very funny. >> but he would be two politically incorrect to be elected today. >> and what a loss is that would be. are there winsto churchills among us that could never run for elected office? >> there are. i'm sure there are plenty of people whose views are being pos churzed and homogenized and sterilizes out of system by the terror of the twit storm of hate that engulfs them whenever they say anything remotely politically incorrect. and i think that is one of the reasons people are so turned off politics. because they feel people aren't speaking from the heart. >> i got to say that is amazing for me to watch. that is two years to the month before the election of donald trump. and i very incorrectly am saying yeah but a politically incorrect

candidate could never be elected today. i'm saying it to boris johnson, you know, who's just been elected prime minister in the uk and now saying today on bessie br i was wrong on two counts. amazing. still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook checo you've got one shot to go vote now. it's smerconish.com. you've heard the question, should it be illegal for vegan or vegetarian food items to be called burgers, steaks or dogs?

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responded to the survey question today. it's smerconish.com. should it be illegal for vegan or vegetarian food items to be called burgers, steaks or dogs? survey says, 68% say no with 8,284 votes cast. i think that's probably the right outcome. having eaten the food, here's my perception. my perception is that it's competition that is driving this, not consumer complaint, and anecdotally i will tell you that my guest was tremendous from louisiana, i preerapprecia him being here. i would have loved to have had consumers who were being duped and made a beef about this, but i can't see any out there. instead, it seems like it's the industry and their lobbyists and consequently legislators who ar pushing back. if there were consumers out there who said i ate this and i had no idea what i was eating, i might feel differently about it. here's some other social media that came in this week.

what do we have? don't care if someone wants to eat a vegan burger. i want to know what i am eating. label it non-meat. >> i don't want to be repetitive. i don't think that you would be shocked if you looked -- i showed you the impossible whopper ad, which made me swallow after i took a look at it. i don't know that in any of these instances you would say oh, my god, i was shocked at what i was eating. i ate at a vegan restaurant. the menu said we are 100% plant based. i understood what that meant. what else, no meat in my burgers with no chicken in my wings, you know you have the makings of a great song there. the problem is, could it really be a country song if it's no meat in my burger and no chicken in my wings. i think it would have to be a rock song. hit me with one more. what the mural is accurate. why is everyone so sensitive? i must say, shirley, i agree with you. that mural to me in san

francisco is like 50 lesson plans, yeah, show it. my god, let the teachers iso on that frame and explain what's going on and have a conversation and a debate. i can't think of a better place for it to be. and one other comment if i may, not that i'm some fine eyed critic, but it's well done. it's a great piece of art. gang, i'm headed for detroit for the debates. i'll see you next week.

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good morning to you, it is saturday, july 27th. i'm jessica dean. >> i'm victor blackwell. you are in the cnn newsroom. days before the cnn democratic presidential debates, we are already seeing a more aggressive former vice president joe biden as he takes on rivals senator kamala harris and senator cory book booker. >> a new poll out of south carolina shows he's still dominating the field with harris coming in a distant second. >> senator elizabeth warren is staying out of the fray and announcing her 1 million donation as she's trying to make the case she could run a successful campaign without the high dollar fund-raising.