good evening. thanks for joining us. is it just me or does the current president of the united states have a lot of time on his hands? like more time than any president i've ever heard of. we know he watches a lot of cable news early in the morning, seemingly all night and on the weekends between rounds of golf which is hard because he plays a lot of golf. i know the enablers of the white house called the giant blank spots on his schedule executive time but can you imagine any real executive at any reputable company sitting around watching so much cable news and tweeting so much made up stuff and retweeting other people's dribble? this is not a new question of course, it's been asked before but i bring it up tonight because the president once again have been playing one of his favorite games suggesting a conspiracy exists without any proof and with the intention of hiding any potential blow back on his own possible actions. today the president defended his new conspiracy mongering by falling back on one of the

lamest excuses he used time and time again. i want to quickly give you the back story you probably know shortly after pedophile jeffrey epstein was found dead a comedian that doesn't have upcoming dates but does sell t-shirts and ring tones sent a tweet suggesting the clintons were somehow involved in the death of jeffrey epstein. no evidence. no facts. just this guy tweeting it out. now, if you were the most powerful person in the world and had briefing books to read and decisions to think about and grieving families of victims of gun violence to call and console or even i don't know, a wife and young child to maybe spend a little time with, what would you do when you read that tweet? i mean, you might read it and if you were, even on twitter, that's to say and then you would probably go about your important work but this president doesn't think that way and apparently doesn't have either the courage of imagination to come up with this sleazy unfounded conspiracy theory on his own so instead, he

takes the time to retweet the sleazy unfounded tweet, which is fine. it's something he did in the spur of the moment and maybe thought better of it and moved on and felt bad about it beneath the dignity office, not presidential. but no. not this president. today in fact the president defended his conspiracy mongering by describing the source of the tweet and how respected he is. >> highly respected conservative pundit. he's a big trump fan. that was a retweet. that wasn't from me. that was from him. he's a man who is half a million followers, a lot of followers and respected. the retweet, which is what it was, a retweet was from somebody that is a very conservative pundit so i think it was fine. >> he's a self-styled comedian.

two things are sad about this response. because someone has half a million twitter followers, they are respected or legitimate. the size of your crowd and twitter following and rating, fine. we know this. it sad and shallow but nothing surprising. the second thing to note that was a retweet defense. this is a personal favorite of mine for quite sometime going back to the campaign because for all his talk about being tough and taking the head, that was a retweet is like when you're 5-year-old blames his 4-year-old brother for hitting him first and claiming he started it if. can you imagine if the president was hauled in for questioning on something, he would turn on a dime. wasn't me. it was him. i just retweeted what he did. he used this excuse a couple times before. >> i mean, they made a big deal out of that and i just don't see it. it was a retweet. >> i did a retweet. retweet sometimes you do retweets -- when you do your own tweeting or social media, it's fine. when you do retweets, they can cause problems because you never know who is doing it to start off. >> sure, but don't let that stop you.

you don't know who is doing it but, you know, you can claim they are a respected conservative pundit later. he pushed the conspiracy theory further today. the site arrived on twitter according to the account just months before the 2016 election and its run by quote unquote independent journalist and that's all we know about them from their site but the president felt the need to repeat accusations, as well, today. >> then they question did bill clinton go to the islands because epstein had an island. that was not a good place as i understand it. i was never there. >> okay. so did you notice what he did there? this again, is just classic. ist it's a classic trump. he made the acquisition about the former president possibly going to epstein's island and as of now, there is no evidence he did and unprompted the president said and i quote i was never there. which is kind of weird, right?

this other person did something horrible but by the way, i wasn't there. why would the president want to reflect and raise this point that he was never there? perhaps because he told new york magazine in 2002 quote i've known jeff, meaning jeffrey epstein for 15 years, terrific guy. terrific guy jeffrey epstein. the future president then went on to say and i quote, he's a lot of fun to be with and said he likes beautiful women as much as i do and many of then are on the younger side. no doubt about it, jeffrey enjoys his essential life. -- social life. he certainly did. not a lot of other people did but he did. we have tape showing epstein enjoying his social life with trump. at mar-a-lago. nbc news broadcast this tape. at one point you can see him gesturing toward a woman and appears he says to epstein look at her back there, she's hot. classy. now by any legitimate standard, none of that means the president is involved with jeffrey epstein's crimes. but by the standards of our own

president, it raises questions by the trump standard and any of this about the former president clinton. probably not. that doesn't matter. or to the harm it may do. does he believe the clinton's killed vince foster as he suggested or ted cruz' dad was involved in the jfk assassination or scalia was murdered. he was found with a pillow over his face according to trump. i don't know if he believes it or not. all we know is these theories about murder become more prominent as we get into election season. this is the way he connects and solidifies support among his base like what he told reporters about whether his base could accept background checks. >> i think my base relies very much on common sense and rely on me in terms of telling them what is happening. >> they rely on me in terms of telling them what is happening. all of america used to be able to rely on the president to tell them what was happening,

particularly times of crisis but sure feels like a long, long time ago. i want to read what clinton's spokesman said in july about his travels with epstein and the current president is now eluding to and building off of according from the spokesman in 2002 and 2003 clinton took four trips on jeffrey epstein's airport, one to europe, one to asia and two to africa that included stops in connection with the work of clinton foundation. staff, supporters of the foundation and his secret service detail traveled on every leg of every trip. he had one meeting in 2002 and around the same time made one brief visit to epstein's new york apartment with a staff member and his security detail. he's not spoken to epstein in well over a decade and never been to little st. james island in new mexico or his residence in florida end quote. joining us now, cnn presidential historian and rice university history professor and cnn political commentator and white house press secretary joe lockhart.

joe, you know, again, i feel like we say this on many a night but again, this is the president of the united states once the most, you know, probably still the most powerful office in the land, most powerful person on the planet used to be a respected office held with reverence by all americans or most americans but now this is the president defending a conspiracy theory about the clintons push by a comedian i've never heard of again and no disrespect to him, i wish him a great success, but, you know, he's got no actual stand jaup -- stand updates being involved in epstein's death. the irony here, the president often questions his own intelligence community and his own justice department, which is now investigating the whole epstein death but he's perfectly fine taking a comedian on twitter at his word and retweeting it to 60 plus million people.

>> well, i mean, that's been his game plan since the very beginning, to use whatever method he can to spread this information and keep his base happy whether he's telling the truth or not telling the truth. we know now that he's not told the truth, you know, 10, 11,000 times according to the washington post, which, you know, take a breath there. that's a staggering piece of information. the president has lied to 11,000 times in less than three years. you know, i think one of the things that gets missed here and maybe this is why trump is acting the way he does towards former president clinton, if you look at the trips, i've been on a bunch of trips with the former president clinton. when he goes to asia and africa and haiti, the job he's doing is helping people save their lives whether it's rebuilding a haiti, whether in africa it's clean drinking water. whether it's aids drugs that have saved tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people's lives.

this is something that trump doesn't understand. you know, his foundation is under investigation for self-dealing. they don't help people. they help themselves. i guess there is some sort of envy in there but, you know, the president's team now has been clear that will is nothing to this and you've got to -- you know, you've got to wonder and i think you eluded to it. i don't play the conspiracy game. so i don't know what trump's involvement if any in any of this is but you have to wonder why he's pushing so hard to deflect and to project this on to someone else. >> doug, the president continued to insinuate that the clintons could be involved in a murder. to say that it goes far beyond presidential norms, obviously would be an understatement. does, i mean, is there something comparable in presidential history you can think of, twitter was not involved but just pushing, you know, a president so quick to

essentially amplify the conspiracy theories of random people he may not even know? >> no, i mean, this is the death of the so-called ex president's club. he despises barack obama. he doesn't like george w bush and he uses bill clinton as a punching bag. the very fact of the matter is he was beat by hillary clinton by 3 million votes. that sticks in his crawl. he almost was undone by the ""access hollywood" tape at the last minute he didn't bring those three women accusers of bill clinton into the limelight again to try to say well, he's worse than i am on this front, so he's using bill clinton as his foil in 2020. it's been a staple of talk radio, rush limbaugh does it and michael savage does it.

something trump feeds off of. he has 63 million twitter followers and that's his base. >> doug, do you remember when nancy regan got consulting a psychic because she was concerned in the wake of regan being shot or maybe before. i remember as a kid, listening to this and people were, you know, people's heads were exploding she consulted a psychic. essentially, donald trump could retweet a psychic. there is no -- there is not a lot of filter in terms of who he's retweeting or who he's reading, if he retweeted, you know, if he was sort of backed to some psychics, if he backed walter's theory of something, i guess he would -- you know, i guess the republicans in congress would go along with it like that's fine you're backing a psychic. >> well, exactly. you know, i once wrote about harry truman and dwight eisenhower and i used to be shocked they said eisenhower knows more about politics than a pig knows about sunday.

that's scandalous lying. in presidential history. with this retweet you have the president of the united states charging a former president to be part of a murder conspiracy and charged barack obama with bugging of trump tower. i mean, you're charging or intimating -- felonies against former presidents with zero evidence while the justice department is supposed to be investigating it. it's such foul play. it's so disgusting. i have to teach history for a living. we have young people that don't think neil armstrong went on the moon and 9/11 didn't happen and instead of a president bringing clarity to history, he peddles in this muck of conspiracy theories. that confuses our country. >> joe, we don't have time but this, you know, you and i had discussions about the importance of white house briefings in the past. this is a case if there were actually still white house

briefings, which there are no longer, this is the kind of thing you could question the white house about but that's gone. those days are gone and again, nobody seems to care that much about it but it's yet again an erosion of a norm. which has a purpose. i'm sorry, out of time. appreciate your time. given your tired, poor, income base changes to legal immigration. we'll discuss how the trump administration is trying to rewrite the inscription you can find on the statute of liberty and inspired millions of immigrants knot that just come to this country but millions of citizens in terms of how we view and they view the united states. later, president trump blinks on tariffs, why the christmas spirit hit him in the heat of august with his fight to china.

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when presidents talk about the statute of liberty and the pedestal and contains the words

given you're tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the poem called the new -- it was written in part to to help raise money for the pedestal only years later was it rediscovered and allowed to give meaning to the statute and a beacon of hope to huddles masses yearning to breathe free. and democracy. normally when president's quote the poem. this is how they sound, >> from her beacon hand worldwide welcome. keep ancient lands your storied. >> give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. the the teening shore, send these, the homeless, tossed to me. >> the reched send them.

that's the reverence and respect presidents both republican and democrat gave those words at the base of the statute of liberty in normal times and what will be the under statement of the night, these are not normal times. with that in mind, listen to what president trump's acting director said on npr today defending administration's new policy for green card and visa holders, legal immigrants from poor backgrounds will get here and get citizen ship providing a rewrite he did of the words of the poem. >> would you also agree that the words etched give me your tired, your poor are also part of the american ethos. >> they are. given you're tired, you're poor and stand on your own two feet and will not become a public charge. >> that is the trump rewrite.

>> to discuss this xavier state where two counties just hours ago sueed to block administration's immigration policy. i spoke to him before air time. attorney general, i want to talk to you about your fight with this rule in a moment but first, i want to get your reaction to ken's quote essentially rewriting the poetry of lazirus you can stand on your two feet and not become a public charge. >> i would invite him to meet my parents who have lived the words and believe in the statute of liberty and probably would not have qualified over the interpretation but they have been nothing but great americans, and they have built this country, and thank god that those words are etched in bronze below the statute and thank god we don't rewrite history so cavalierly as we just heard him try to.

>> i mean, you know, essentially that is what this administration with this effort is trying to do. i mean, they are fund mentally trying to change a stance that this country has taken and been proud of and not just, you know, a position they have taken but something that the united states has promoted generation to generation throughout the world as a beacon of hope to people who are in difficult circumstances who come here and can start a new life and make something of themselves and we all stand on their shoulders. >> and that's what has made american great. we don't just say give us the folks that say they have proven to be the top performers. that's all we want. we see people that struggle and make a difference. when they get to america. that's what the statute of liberty is. represents. from adversity comes great

achievements and if you only take the winners, those who always had the chance to eat the cake, it would be a very different america and fortunately, most people know that our way of life is not going to change because someone says it should. to me, those words are in many ways unamerican that were articulated and thank god that we have documents like the constitution, words like the statute of liberty that have out lasted statements like that. >> two counties in california brought the lawsuit against the rule. you vow to fight it, as well. what steps do you plan to take? >> we're preparing to file, as well. we think it's unamerican and unlawful and we believe it would destroy good portions of our economy if we allowed a rule like this to take effect. we rely on hard work of people who understand what it means to toil and to somehow overcome to be able to have a state like

california that's become the number one state economically for this country and the fourth -- fifth largest economy in the world. we need people that want to show they earned a place in america. >> just finally, if this policy is allowed to stand, what does it mean for california or frankly, any state. the long-term effects that this administration has. considered or hasn't. >> anderson, this policy won't stand. i can say that to you as not just the attorney general from the state of california, i say it to you as an american and son of immigrants. >> you say it's illegal. how is it illegal? >> the process by which it's being implemented is we believe illegal. the terms it would impose on people we believe are illegal and we also believe that it violates the constitution's equal protection so under the laws of this country, we don't believe that rule will stand.

>> how much of what administration is trying to do do you believe is based on their vision for what they want the american population to look like and be like in the future. it wouldn't surprise me that this administration has its sights set on it and we got a on what they would like america to look like. we have a good idea and and again, there is a difference here. presidents come and go. but the united states and our democracy continues and so as long as the statute of liberty is tall and is free, we'll make sure she gets to do that and i will tell you that i've seen too many people who have struggled coming from foreign lands here including people like my parents and i've seen the hard work that they provide to this country.

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welcome back. president trump spent the past few months saying tariffs were good for the economy but will not cost american consumers anything. in changed. he blinked in the trade war. they decided to delay a round of tariffs until after the holiday season because of the pain it would cause shoppers. despite saying earlier none of that was happening. he said china was paying for the tariffs which was never true,

either. some perspective from david garrigan with chief white house correspondent jim acosta. let me start with the president's explanation about the reversal here. what did he have to say? >> the president almost did something remarkable today. he admitted he was wrong. almost. the president said as you said a few minutes ago that they are postponing these tariffs because he doesn't want to have an adverse effect on the shopping season saying he doesn't want consumers to be impacted. by the tariffs. that runs contrary to everything he said up until this point. he said u.s. consumers are not affected by these tariffs when we know they have been and i talked to a source close to the white thousand this evening and and policy without admitting he made a policy mistake here. >> so that's as close as he came, he didn't actually acknowledge it, he just stated it. the discrepancy. >> that's right. >> okay. >> he once again said well, they

are not feeling the pain from these tariffs which of course is not the case but this was as close as he's come to essentially acknowledging that these tariffs are to some extend being passed on to consumers if they buy smart phones and toys later on during the holiday shopping season, potentially if they go into place in september instead of december, consumers would have been affected. >> the president says or does something negative or maybe more intense than expected and finds a way to shift course without admitting he's responding to pressure or shifting course. >> it's very familiar pattern by now, anderson. often he surprises us with impulsive decisions getting out in front of advisors, not listening to advisors and gets push back and blinks. goes back to the old kennedy and cuban missile crisis eyeball to eyeball and they blinked. makes a big difference who blinks on this one. in essence, it is good policy.

if he's going to probably avoid a recession, have pretty good christmas sales very likely. he would be warned that unless he changed course here, he could have a very bad christmas season and the chances of a recession were 1-3 this coming year. so i think he made the right policy but terrible politics. when you flip like this so easily when you go up against the chinese, one thing to go up against mexico and make them and bully them into going along with your policy and a different proposition to go up against china and china didn't blink here. they out lasted him and will take their measure if they can hang tough, he can blink on other things. >> to that point, it seems like most of the advisors and analysts outside the white house were in agreement it was bad news for the u.s. markets. >> that's right. there were economists heading into the lead line to go into effect that this could send the country into a recession and as everybody knows in washington,

president trump is riding on a good economy right now. it is essentially the trapped door under his feet right now and if this economy were to head south and spin into a recession, that could of usually put his reelection prospects into major jeopardy because every other measure, he is in big trouble with a big part of the electret. just to jump off of what david said, keep in mind president trump for the last few weeks is going off on vice president former vice president joe biden saying he's not the kind of guy who can go toe to toe with china. here is an example where the president took things to the brink on this trade policy with china and then he was the one that blinked and so he is giving his opposition here some thought heading into the 2020 campaign. no question. >> jim mentioned one economist, another reacted saying from the perspective of political self-interest, the tariff threat was suicidal, which is his word. do you agree? there no other way out of this

for the president? >> i think the real question is why he got into it and it just wasn't thought through. to this day, they are continuing to act very tactically when these issues come up. they don't have a long-term strategy. we're dealing with a super power in china with a long-term strategy for a couple centuries looking ahead. we're trying to make it day to day. as a result of that, they are playing the game better. they hold lower cards than we do but playing better than we are. >> so interesting about the time frame they are looking at. you're right. david garrigan, thank you. jim acosta, president trump ramping up trash talk for the man that used to speak for the entire white house. up next, the newest clash and with anthony scaramucci. what it means is a another high-profile loyalest turns on the commander in chief. we call it the mother standard of care.

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president trump is lashing out at the biggest enemy of the moment, not democrats trying to replace him, back to the leader of the free world ripping his own communications director. today the president called anthony scaramucci a nervous and

neurotic wreck. he no longer supports the reelection bid after calling trips a catastrophe. to dayton and el paso. one more, trump world is scorched earth as he told reporters in new jersey today. >> anthony is a guy who worked for me that didn't have a clue. he worked for eleven days. he made terrible statements. i think anthony is really somebody that very much out of control. he doesn't have what it takes. he really doesn't. anthony is upset because he wanted certain things, the main thing he wanted was to come back into administration and i remember he was a disaster by the 11th day. >> always hires the best. rick wilson a republican strategist. with me now jim schultz a former trump white house attorney, appreciate you both being here. you wrote a book about this very thing.

i mentioned it last night because it's always in my mind because i think the title is so fascinating. the idea everything trump touches dies, nobody really survives with reputation in tact and the president's good grace, their interaction with trump ultimately turns out in career death or with the president turning on them. >> sure, anderson it's a pattern that's repeated and repeated and repeated. you know, when i wrote the title of the book, i thought this is a kind of principle that seems to be applying. it's to the point where it's basically like a natural law and it will always happen no matter who they are, no matter how secure they think they are unless their last name is trump, eventually he'll turn on everyone. he'll get board or restless or angry or they will say something with independent thought or get this idea they are against him and it's over. whether they die slow or fast, it's an open question.

scaramucci, it took him a long time to find out this guy's knife is in his back and footprints are owl over him and realize this is a bad guy. trump will play the game saying people are desperate to be with me. so i think that anthony is in a weird spot on the right side of the argument. at long last. >> jim, do you think it's personal at this point between these two? >> yeah, this isn't policy, this is personal. no doubt about it. >> because scaramucci is republican and believes in the president's agenda and many things the president has done. >> no doubt about it. this is no question, bare knuckle brawl between two new yorkers having a disagreement and it's out and going outside the bar into the street at this point in time. that's what we're seeing and, you know, anthony scaramucci is a tough guy. he'll stand his ground. the president will punch back when he gets punched and that's

the nature of both of them. so i think you have two big personalities clashing here and we'll see how it turns out but i think it's more of a personal issue than anything principle or policy at this point. >> rick, it's interesting. i happen to see like a few seconds they were talking about scaramucci on fox and it was somebody on a round table show saying basically he is putting his finger up in the air to kind of see which way the wind is blowing and decided which way it's blowing so that's why he's jumping off the trump train. do you think there is an element of truth in that or do you see this as somebody who has, you know, decided, you know what? this guy has gone too far? >> i think anthony gambled, went all in on trump. he spent the last year and a half trying to find a way back into a sense of having trump's

ear and of course, once trump shanked him, he was shanked. he was done. he was bleeding out on the floor never going to come back. is it putting your finger up in the wind? i don't know. as anthony found the shocking revelation donald trump is a faithless person in every dimension, the guy cheated or shanked every person in his life, wives, contractors, business partners, clients, the country and so the shocking revelation trump is a bad dude, maybe anthony isn't that quick. there is no coming back after this guy puts you in the dirt and after you committed everything to him, you're going to get screwed over and, you know, it's ironic anderson because i looked at fox clips from when anthony was named as communications director and they thought he was the greatest thing since prepared mustard. they thought it would be an amazing change. nicety -- feisty new yorker.

he's an unperson. >> unperson. >> i think the guy -- the only thing he got right was the feisty new yorker part. this is really about two feisty new yorkers having it out in the public domain not really the place to be doing it, not the way to handle it, but that's the way it plays out now with on twitter and through the social media. so we'll see how it plays out. >> my guess is scaramucci is the on one that's actually been in a fight. i doubt president trump has ever, you know, hit anybody, i don't know if anthony scaramucci has. my money would be on -- if i had to hide behind someone in a fight, i would hide behind anthony scaramucci. >> donald trump is a soft-handed man baby. he's never taken a punch. or given one. >> gee. wow. >> this has really digressed. [ laughter ] >> i don't even know -- i'm trying to understand what that visual even means. [ laughter ] >> soft-handed man baby. gosh.

jim, you were at the white house when scaramucci was there. he's a likable guy whether you believe in his politics or not. he's certainly a very new york character. there is notion that republicans will speak out against the president, which is scaramucci saying he thinks there may be this change on capitol hill among republicans, which a lot of people may -- a lot of democrats may be wishing for but no sign of it. >> i don't see a ground swell of support. the president's numbers among republicans continue to be very, very strong. again, i think this is a war oft against the president and taking his punch if you will with the war of the words, i don't see any grounds for, you know, washington republicans turning their back on the president or revolting against the president. no indication of that. >> rick, what was that? soft-handed what? >> soft-handed man baby. >> i have to write it down so i can think about it.

thank you. coming up, is it all or nothing now in the conservative movement if you push back on racially charged policies or racist statements, you'll be shunned by other conservatives. it's happened to max boot. he says the trump conservatism the corrosion. is why he left the right. he may have another chapter to add to his book. we'll explain why ahead. to cover the essentials in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. and on the way, you'll get timely investment help to keep you on the right track, without the unnecessary fees you might expect from so many financial firms. because when you have a partner who gives you clarity at every step, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. who gives you clarity at every step, [ text notification now that you have]

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my next guest has been writing a lot these days about race, hatred in america, the debate over the president's role in stoking the flames. now he's being accused of fanning them himself by long running conservative publication he says he once revered. why is the national review taking on national post columnist? he wrote a column that touched a nerve with one of its writers. in it, max argued that president

trump was playing on a sense of white victim hood in america. he wrote, get a grip, white people. we are not the victims. the writer from the national review, john, fired back with a column of his own titled max fans the flames of national hatred. we invited him on the program. he declined that invitation, but max is here, he accused the national review that employed an article. why i left the right, he's always welcome. first, talk about the argument you were making in the piece you wrote about victimization and victimhood. >> my article was a response to a public opinion poll that came out last year, anderson, which showed that 55% of white americans think that white americans are just as much the victims of discrimination as african-americans and other minorities. that is ridiculous. that is absurd. we know that there is real bias against minorities in this country. we know that they suffer. white people who are the majority do not suffer in that

way, and yet there is this victimhood complex which has taken root among many people, many whites, a lot of supporters of donald trump. he plays on that, on that complex masterfully, but it's also you see that with the el paso gunman, for example, also feeling that whites are being persecuted. whites are the victims. and all i was saying was, snap out of it, whites are not the victims here. we need to escape this victimhood mentality because it is very dangerous. >> it's also interesting because conservatives used to make fun of democrats and liberals for a victimhood mentality. when i was growing up -- >> absolutely. >> that was the huge charge against democrats and liberal by conservatives and now they do seem to be, at least certainly trump and others, are stoking this idea of oh, my god, everyone is discriminating against us and it's so hard to be a white male today. >> exactly. i mean, trump really indulges in this victim hood complex. even as president he always

feels like he's a victim of everything. he feels like white people in general are being victimized by latinos, but muslims, by other minorities. yes, there is this victim hood martyr dom complex out there and i think it is dangerous. it is at the root of a lot of white racism. >> the guy who wrote the article about it, he basically -- declined to appear tonight which is unfortunate, but he's basically saying that you are fanning the flames of race hatred. it's interesting because he doesn't accuse president trump at all of fanning any flames. >> of course, right. >> but somehow you are the one fanning flames. >> this is kind of the double-talk that donald trump himself engages in, where we know that he engages in racism all the time and then he says, oh, no, anybody who calls me out, you're the racist, i'm not the racist. you're the racist. this is kind of an example of that same sort of reasoning. it's also something that you see, frankly, among white supremacists because this writer accused me of being a self-loathing white, you know, somebody who basically doesn't like my race.

i mean, that is -- >> that is classic white nationalist talking point. >> exactly. that is something you expect to hear from a follower of richard spencer, not of william f. buckley, jr. >> the companion piece to that, they always say, i'm not a racist, i just love my race. >> exactly. >> i don't hate black people. i just love my race. >> that's kind of the vibe you get from this article. i've never been accused by a mainstream publication before of being a self-hating white. this is the kind of stuff that i hear on the dark corners of the internet from actual white supremacists and so to see this actually -- this kind of filth directed at me from national review, which is, you know, a publication that is defined american conservatism since the 1950s. >> william f. buckley. >> this is a magazine i grew up reading, an doctor son. i had a subscription in national review when i was 13. >> subscription at 13. wow, it doesn't surprise me, but i kind of love that idea.

>> at 13. >> were your folks like, okay, sure. >> it was really my father who said, you need to read this. and i did. bill buckley became one of my heroes. so it's heart breaking for me to see what is happening to this magazine which once chased anti-semites out of the conservative movement and now it is indulging in this white supremacists rhetoric. >> the other thing this writer wrote, i honestly didn't understand it. it was -- he said that you had demonstrated that you hate yourself and that your writing was boutique and performative. >> i don't know what that means. >> i don't know what that means, boutique and performative. >> it was saying that boots attacks on white people are basically driving them into the arms of the white nationalists, forcing them to choose between the white nationalist and boot and his self-loathing whites. this kind of bizarre moral

equivalent -- >> all those people are reading the washington post, your column and going to white nationalism. >> it doesn't make any sense. it's incredibly shocking and offensive for me to see this kind of lapping waj appear in what is a mainstream publication and it sadly is i think a reflection of even how mainstream conservative publications are being trump i identified and going down the same road you see. >> in order to survive, i think for many it's an economic decision with some of these people. >> they don't want to go the way of the weekly standard which collapsed. to my mind it's tragic because i revered national review. i thought it stood for something better. sadzeck sadly it's a sign of how far donald trump is leading them over the edge, not only the conservative movement, but the gate keepers who have something to answer for keeping the gates open to the racism and xenophobia that donald trump represents. >> thank you for being with us. a killer's path in dayton, ohio,

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