>> the quick answer would be no because i -- it would be hard for me to be properly respectful of the office because i think that he is so disrespectful of the office, it's very hard to perceive him as i want to perceive a president. so i think just for safety sake, it wouldn't be a good idea. >> and that was just part of the interview, as i said, i think it was about hour and ten minutes that we spoke. and some of it stopped me in my tracks. he's got a lot to say about grief and loss and surviving and being a good human being which he is. make sure to catch our special tomorrow night with the host of the late show, 9:00 p.m. eastern here on cnn. we're keeping a close eye on what is happening in philadelphia where an active standoff is under way. six officers have been shot and wounded. nonlife-threatening we're told. they don't know if it's one or two shooters inside, barricaded

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if i if i wiphiladelphia's poli commissioner said in the last hour the shooter refuses to come out peacefully in his words and is holed up inside. jason carroll is at the scene for us. what's the latest? >> reporter: still a volatile situation. we're standing two blocks from where this standoff is making place. you can see down there at the intersection, the row house in question where the suspect or suspects are inside. this started at about 4:35 this afternoon. that's when police were out here serving a search warrant. the narcotics team responded to that. they were met by gunfire. officers at one point jumping out of windows in order to escape and then the calls came in for backup, for extra help. philadelphia police descended on the scene, swat, trying to get

this suspect to give himself up. at every turn they were met by gunfire. there are still two officers who are barricaded inside the residence. they're said to be on the second floor holding three prisoners. at one point, though, four women who were on the second floor, police actually helped them escape, those women saying that they were very thankful for police for helping them. at one point, at about 7:00 tonight, police tweeted out that they were trying to engage with the suspect, telling the suspect that the police were going to be okay and just to give himself up. but, again, at this point, for the past hour or so, anderson, they've been met by silence. the standoff continues. >> and, jason, just to be clear, when the police commissioner spoke at the top of the 8:00 hour, he really wouldn't specify whether it was one shooter or perhaps somebody else involved as well. i assume there's no new details and whether they've been able to narrow that down. >> that is correct. as you can imagine, in situations like this, with so

much going on down here on the ground, you get a lot of conflicting or varying information and it takes a while for folks to come together and confirm sort of details about what's going on. take the number of officers that were injured in this. that's a perfect example. at one point we were told it was two, four, five and then we were told six and then a seventh officer also injured when he was trying to get down here at the scene and was involved in some sort of of an accident. you can imagine, a lot of different moving parts. but we can tell you, since we've been out here for the past 40 minutes or so, silence. no gunfire, but police still actively trying to engage the suspect holed up inside.

>> that's good because for three hours, it seems like, there had been random gunfire, many rounds, according to police and some of them hit the swat speak. let's check back in with evan perez. there was some talk that atf, fbi, might be on the scene or coming there. >> that's right, anderson. this is a typical situation, obviously. you have a very active situation with active shooter, essentially who is firing at police officers. you have officers barricaded, so basically it's an all hands on deck situation. you can see from some of the early scenes we're showing you there, you had undercover officers showing up at the scene and at this point as jason pointed out, because it's been silent, you know, it kind of changes what this strategy might be if you're the s.w.a.t. officers who are going to go in there. one of the things i heard from sources was the concern this is a suspect or suspects, again, because we don't know how many, who wanted to die essentially, suicide by cop and take as many officers as possible. and so that's one of the things that they were trying to guard against.

of course you have the complication of a couple of officers who remain in that building and the shooter has the advantage. they know the exactly the layout, where to hide. and so the police were dealing with much more complicated situation than you usually have. this began with narcotics officers going to that building. this is an area just north of center city philadelphia. and so at this point, now, i think they're going to wait a while to see if they can hear any other sign of life from inside that building and figure out how to get in there to try to extricate those officers, protect the people who are in the building and get the shooter or shooters who are still there. >> some of those officers, i think they're bike officers that were involved in the narcotics raid initially or the serving of a warrant. thank you. >> joining us is the former philadelphia police commissioner and special agent, both cnn law enforcement analysts.

and the former commander of the nypd hostage negotiation team. commissioner ramsey, we spoke an hour ago. the longer this goes on, what does that mean in terms of, does it change police strategy? do the odds start to change in favor of the police given they have night vision equipment? how does it aller things? >> the police will be very patient as long as they don't believe the two officers trapped inside are in eminent danger. that's very important. if they are, then, obviously, they have to take some kind of action. they'll continue to try to negotiate best they can over time. i learned that the officers

involved in the search warrant were from our narcotics strike force, they deal with street-level type drugs. and some of those officers you saw running with shorts could very well have been strike force officers too. things are pretty much status quo. they don't know for sure if it's one or two shooters. they know, obviously, for sure, they got one. but the negotiators aren't able to make contact with guy. he's still not talking. pick up the phone, hang up, sort of situation which is not good at all. >> as a hostage negotiator yourself with the nypd, what do you do in that situation in the person you call, the person hangs up. how do you establish any kind of communication? >> first of all, good evening and thank you for having me. as it stands now, time is on our side. unless the s.w.a.t. can articulate a reason for going in, they're hard-pressed to do so. we have two officers, as we know it now, still inside with the individual and just keep trying. i think the main tactic now or

strategy is going to come from the two officers who are inside that room by maintaining their composure and that's something we worry about. in fact, in the 2002, we had a situation right here in new york city where we had one of our detectives held hostage and had a gun to his head and the main -- the main thing that saved the day on that was the detective maintaining his composure inside that room. >> this was a serving a warrant on drug-related warrant, if a suspect -- if a person who is barricaded in who's already been shooting, if they are on some sort of of a narcotic, that -- that is a wild card that as a negotiator has got to be extremely difficult to kind of handle. >> well, sure.

that always complicates the issues when someone's rational state is influenced by narcotics or alcohol, so that alters their mental state. and there's going to come a point in time that there's absolutely no -- i would think at least, there's going to come a point in time where there's no communication at all that the police are going to have to start kind of probing and seeing what information they can gather that might be going on inside that room. >> james, this is a densely populated area. there have been shots fired for hours, according to police, from at least one shooter inside this building. do they just let that continue and as long as the area is, you know, secure and cleared out of people who might be hit. >> the important thing right now are the two officers who are trapped inside because you don't want this to turn into a hostage

standoff. if i was going to talk to this guy, if this guy is watching cnn, i would say six police officers are shot, nobody has died. you haven't murdered anybody right now. shut this thing down. talk to us. help us understand what the issues are, what you're grievance is, if it's going to jail, let's talk about that. as a s.w.a.t. team officer, i would say, while that's going on, we're trying to establish communication, no communication is bad. you have to get some type of communication. i've got to have a plan for a hasty assault, in the event that something changes on the inside or this guy charges at the cops or starts shooting at the window, densely populated area. we're not talking about handguns, we're talking about rifle rounds. we got to make sure that we've cleared out that neighborhood far and wide. >> in movies you see often conflict between the hostage

negotiator and the s.w.a.t. commander on the scene and they both have different strategies and different beliefs. is that what happens in real life? you were saying that the s.w.a.t. person on the scene would have to make a good case for why they need to go in and if they can't, you know, the status quo continues. >> well, the decision comes down to the incident commander. usually the highest ranking member from the police department on the scene and he or she will make their decisions based on input from the hostage negotiators, from the s.w.a.t. commanders and then -- and plus their own personal observations and then they will make the call that needs to be made. so, you know, the end result is the same, regardless if it's the hostage negotiators or the s.w.a.t. team. sometimes the tactic is a little bit different. ultimately it's neither one of those units' decisions but

rather the incident commander based on his or her years of experience and the input they're receiving. >> commissioner, how long do you think police would likely keep talking to the shooter? obviously one thing, if they are able to establish actual communication, that then becomes a whole other chapter, then there's a discussion that can be had, what are your grievances, do you want to send in some food, it just seems like that would change it considerably if there is no communication at what point do they decide enough is enough? >> well, they do have communication with the officers that are inside. they'll at least know whether or

not the officers are, you know, in eminent danger from this individual or not. so they'll be patient until they know one way or the other. and i have to say, the philadelphia s.w.a.t. team is one of the best in the country, period, as far as the hostage negotiators go, they work seamlessly, you have the head of the s.w.a.t. team and also the police commissioner himself is there. you've got all the right people there in terms of decision-making and they'll be as patient as they can possibly be but if things turn south in terms of the threat to the officers or individuals that i understand they may have in custody from the narcotic raid, then change will happen and they'll take action. but, again, there's no s.w.a.t. better than the one we got right here in philadelphia. >> appreciate it. it's a pleasure to talk to you. thank you. we're going to continue to monitor the standoff, bring you updates throughout this hour. the trump administration's attempt to redefine the words huddled masses. i'll speak with the former secretary of state as well as a former immigrant. i'll talk to steve bullock.

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we continue to monitor the standoff in philadelphia, police trying to negotiate with a suspect after six officers were shot and wounded. we're monitoring the controversy that's following ken cuccinelli trying to explain this comment he made on npr yesterday. >> would you agree that emma lazarus's words is part of the american ethos. >> they certainly are. and who will not become a public charge. >> well, however, in his attempt to explain what he meant or clarify the matter with my colleague erin burnett, he made this declaration which many interpreted as giving the poem a

whites only spin. >> that poem was referring back to people coming from europe where they had class-based societies, where people were considered wretched if they weren't in the right class. >> here to discuss it is madeleine albright. she came to the united states as a refugee at the age of 11 after communists took over her home. when you heard the president's immigration official say that the poem on the statue of liberty is only for people who can stand on their own two feet, as someone who sailed into new york harbor, what went through your mind. >> i've been a refugee twice, once from the nazis and i think it's one of the most un-american things that i have ever heard

and i will remember seeing the statue of liberty as we sailed by. and my father used to say that when we were in england people would say, we're so sorry your country has been taken over by a terrible dictator. and people in the united states said, we're so sorry, you're welcome here and when will you become a citizen and my father said that's what made america a different country. and now we are forgetting that great history of our country. >> you know, mr. cuccinelli appoints to these laws as being a part of america's heritage, going back 140 years, and while that may be true, it is not necessarily a good thing. just because something is part

of american heritage doesn't make it right. if you're having laws that signal women could be deported or pregnant women could be deported, that's not something i think anybody wants to have kids celebrating in schools. >> for sure not. and i also am not sure that one can say it's part of the american heritage. there have been various periods where americans have been very generous in our immigration policy and i think this country has benefitted by the diversity that has come through immigration. and so i find that one of the most un-american statements i've ever heard and you pointed out that i have a statue of liberty pen on. i think the statue of liberty is weeping. >> the -- there have been generations of immigrants who have come here, irish, italian, russian, you know, german, many of whom were not wanted by some who were already here and yet the u.s. still welcomed them and they were able to -- they came standing on their own two feet

to mr. cuccinelli, but not only that, they were able to carve out a life for themselves and for their families and now the ancestors of those people are, you know, doing well. and so the idea that anybody who needs, you know, help when they first get here isn't going to contribute does not -- it just -- that doesn't make sense. >> absolutely not. and let me also say, anderson, i think people do not leave the countries of their birth willingly. they do it because there's something terrible going on. they can't make a living in a way where they are threatened by various problems in their countries and it is hard. i was little, but i can tell you that it's not easy, it wasn't easy even for my parents to pick up and come here. and so i do think people are -- want to be a part of the country they're coming to. they want to contribute, they want to participate. people want to be free.

they want to be able to live a decent life and so i found what he said insulting and something that he -- i hope, he deeply, deeply regrets and that it does not signify an entire view of this country because i think the american people are incredibly generous and do want to -- and really celebrate our diversity, don't hate it. >> there doesn't seem to be an expression of regret at this point. what kind of a message do you think this sends to the world? obviously, the statue of liberty, the mother of exiles sends a clear message to the tired the poor, the homeless around the world. what do you think this rewrite by this administration, what does that tell me around the world about the united states. >> i think there have been an awful lot of rewrites by this

administration of what america is. i travel aboard a lot and we managed -- have now managed to confuse everybody about what america is, do we care about freedom and human rights? do we care about other people? and so i think this just adds to what is happening in terms of america's image abroad which is not something that is very useful to us, for our national security purposes, or our economic lives, or just because i see americans as decent people. and so i think it's hurting very, very much. and the kinds of language that's used by the president in terms of invasions, people that are coming to ruin our country, terms that really more sound like war than what i think most people think about america as a country that has welcomed diversity. >> secretary madeleine albright, i appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. startling words about rape

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a congressman known for explosive rhetoric for racist statements, but today on the subject of abortion, republican representative steve king of iowa offered a mind-boggling theory about all of mankind. >> what if we went back through all of the family trees and pulled those people out who were products of rape and incest, would there be any population left if we did that. considering all of the wars that have taken place.

>> that was a actual congressman, veteran lawmaker suggesting that none of us would be here today had abortions always been allowed for rape and incest victims. those comments come months after he was stripped of all committee placements. he said he was misquoted back then and yet he was not. he hasn't gotten his committee jobs back. what are the lawmakers saying about these latest comments. i saw something from liz cheney. >> the initial response was fairly similar to the one that you just add, raising their hands, wondering why as one senior republican aide said i wish he would go away. leaders in the house also saying -- condemning the remarks. steve king is known on capitol hill and throughout the country, less for any policy achievement and more for inflammatory

remarks. the republican leader, the number two in the house republican congress saying he found objectionable and liz cheney who was one of the first to call on steve king to resign. she called the comments bizarre and reiterated the call to resign. we had democratic presidential candidates weighing in in spades, calling on him to resign. but more so, calling on people to donate to his competitor, the individual who lost by just three points in 2018, now trying to raise more money for another effort to unseat steve king. he is in a very conservative district in northwest iowa. he outran hillary clinton's 2016 numbers by 24 points. democrats hoping to capitalize on this. >> he's already been stripped of his committee assignments, there's not much more his fellow lawmakers can do, right? >> and i think that's why you give the initial response of

everybody throwing their hands up in the air. they could strip him -- they could expel him from the conference. there's no sense right now that's going to happen. and steve king might be saved by the fact that republican lawmakers aren't in town right now and in the future, people aren't talking about this anymore. but he has been condemned on the house floor in a vote for those comments related to white supremacy you talked about earlier. there's no clear sign that anything is going to happen other than people hoping that he loses. there's a republican primary challenger that he has that has already raised more money than him. there's hope that he could be taken out in a primary, but he's already won nine terms. he's figured out a way to stick around. >> thanks very much. i think to bring in senior commentator, also cnn political commentator, a former congresswoman from utah. as someone who worked in the

house with congressman king, when you heard this latest stuff, what -- i mean, were you surprised? >> no. i'm not surprised at all. as a matter of fact the only thing that is shocking is that he's still a member of congress where people like barbara comstock aren't on the gop side. it's one of the prime examples why it's so important to have women representing -- represented in congress on both sides of the aisle. liz cheney was the -- if it weren't for liz cheney, i don't think he would have lost his committee assignments. this is after years and years of nobody doing anything and finally saying, we're going to strip you of your committee assignments which they should have done a long time ago. >> to mia's point, it's the latest in a list of offensive comments, why do you think the

people in his district in iowa keep reelecting him? >> you know, as phil was mentioning, it's a very conservative district. i would hope though that finally folks will feel like they have an alternative. i think part of the challenge is he hasn't had a serious alternative. he was also bragging that donald trump approves of what he says. there is some truth to that and there is some truth to trump believing that there are people in this country who are going to support maybe -- they don't fully support those kind of statements, i don't think mr. king was even thinking about how about native americans who were raped, slaves -- >> he doesn't think at all. >> clearly that's true. he has gotten re-elected and i certainly think that the people in his district have to ask themselves, is that who you really want representing you on the national stage. >> think about what he said, he's pretty much saying that we needed to have rape and incest

in order to populate the united states. he doesn't even have the ability to know what to say and when to say it. these are things that are in his mind and has manifested into his words. what ends up happening is, it manifests itself into your actions and that becomes your legacy. he is not good for the republican party. he is not good for america. and i hope that they get rid of him. >> you were talking about how important it is for the republicans to have women. here's the thing. comments like that, are part of the reason that your party is losing among women voters,

particularly in the suburbs as we saw in 2018 because the -- president trump hasn't said anything quite that horrible, but it's sure been pretty close. and in terms of the misogyny and the lack of respect for women, we even saw what happened in georgia and alabama people said, hold on, it's too harsh to say that exceptions for rape and incest aren't acceptable, the majority of this country believe roe v. wade is settled law. when you have a party and you have members of congress, not all as far down the spectrum of crazy as steve king, defending those kinds of things, i've talked to republican women who feel like they can't run as a republican and defend some of these things. >> to put the reason why women aren't supporting the party is because of steve king, i think it's absolutely -- i think it's ludicrous. i think one of the things -- >> i think it's -- >> let her finish. >> one of the issues that we have is myself and a whole bunch of other women who have been standing up against people like steve king are the ones that have been targeted by the democrat party and that's a problem. now you either have to decide whether you want to be -- whether you want to be right on the issues or whether you want to be the party that has power.

and that is one of the things that we kept talking about. some of the people that have been huge people against the president are the ones who are not members of congress any longer. we have to make sure we watch who we're targeting. you either want power in washington or you want the right people in congress. >> i don't think we've heard republicans stand up very often to speak out against president trump and i think what you've seen frankly is more -- you've seen house members, republicans decide it's not worth trying to run in this environment. that's not the same thing as standing up for your values and standing up against this president. and we have not seen that as much as we should, i would say. >> you've made this a republican/democrat thing where this is a right or wrong thing. i have always been prolife except in the cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. that has to do with people who have been victims and so we need to keep it away from being

whether it's a republican issue or a democrat issue and make sure we're taking care of people and taking care of people's issues. >> you're the one taking -- >> i got to leave it here. i'm sorry. i'm out of time. thank you so much. appreciate it. we're continuing to monitor the standoff in philadelphia. also a discussion with steve bullock, the democratic governor of a red state. we'll talk about how you end the stalemate in washington on gun control. it's time for the biggest sale of the year on the sleep number 360 smart bed. you can adjust your comfort on both sides your sleep number setting. can it help us fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but can it help keep us asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. so you can really promise better sleep. not promise... prove. and now, all beds are on sale! save 50% on the 360 sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus 0% interest for 24 months on all beds. only for a limited time. ♪ ♪ applebee's handcrafted burgers

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we have some new information, some breaking news on two officers barricaded in a house where a shooter is in a standoff with police, after shooting six other police officers. charles ramsey joins us now with the information. what have you learned? >> well, i've learned that the two officers are out and they're safe. i don't know if they were injured or not. i don't believe so. i don't know the status of the people that they had in custody. we're not even sure they actually had someone in custody or not. they were able to slip out or there was some distraction. i'm not clear on that. but i heard from two different individuals who were on the scene now that the two officers are out of the house. that's a good -- that's good. >> and just explain not only is that great for those officers, but it changes the tactical

situation or the potential tactical situation for police. it gives them more options because those -- the safety of those two officers is no longer at risk and that was a -- obviously a top priority. >> yes. the problem is, even if the officers were in eminent danger, you run the -- >> by the way, i'm just getting -- i'm getting word from another source that it was a s.w.a.t. that helped get those two officers out. >> okay. well, that makes some sense. they probably distracted the gunman and slipped in and were able to get those guys out of there which is a good thing. that does change the dynamic. at least you're not worried about your officers or someone else getting harmed while inside. but we don't know if there's anybody else inside with this guy. i'm hearing this could have been

a little rooming house or something. i know they should have blueprints, so i don't know what the structure looks like inside, but at least you got the police officers are out and that changes things considerably. >> chief, i want to bring in jason carroll who's on the scene. he's joining us by phone. jack, let me go first to you, in terms from a hostage negotiation standpoint, the fact those two officers are out and early reports are a s.w.a.t. team helped get them out, how does that change things in how you might approach and deal with the shooter or shooters? >> well, first, i think the two officers that just were released or got out on their own, or with the help of the s.w.a.t. team, they're going to be providing a

lot of intelligence of what's going on inside of there. and based on what is told to the s.w.a.t. team, the negotiators and the commander and to the police commissioner, of course, is going to determine the next steps. is there anybody else from the family inside the house? this is the information they're going to be gathering from the two officers that just got out. valuable intelligence, that's going to be coming out of there. the other reason i think the police commissioner just mentioned it, but i think he said very correctly that when police officers go through that door, they're entering into a very hostile environment where there's a 50-50 chance of coming out of that safely. police officers are going into that location are in jeopardy as well. the best -- i think the best approach right now is to continue the negotiation process until it's exhausted and of course there's the possibility that he even shot himself. these are the things that they're going to have to determine before making their next strategy. >> jason carroll, have you seen any sign of what just -- what just happened?

>> strangely enough, anderson, it's been very, very quiet. quiet for the past hour or so. and pretty remarkable when you consider at one point those officers who were inside on the second floor and then we were hearing reports that the shooter was ongoing the first floor, shooting, incredible that the officers were able to get out unscathed. and more information coming out that one of the suspects, if there is one, and, again, investigators seem to be unsure about that, was the subject of a separate federal law enforcement investigation, unclear of what that investigation is. as you recall, at about 4:30, that's when officers came out here searching a search warrant, now we're getting more information about the suspect still barricaded inside. >> jason carroll, appreciate it. commissioner, appreciate it. i want to talk with democratic presidential

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we're following that standoff in philadelphia. two officers trapped inside the barricaded house are no longer trapped. that's the good news. one heavily armed individual shot six officers is in a standoff with authorities. it's not clear how many weapons this person has. they seem to have a long gun. it's been ten days since the shooting in dayton and el paso. lawmakers are in talks by effectively in a stalemate. can anything get done and do they have the will? i want to discuss the stalemate with governor and presidential candidate. steve bullock joins me now. thanks to much for being with us. >> good to be with you, anderson. >> the president is talking about meaningful background checks. after parkland he talked about raising the age for someone to buy a long gun and strong background checks. and nothing happened.

>> back to within two weeks of parkland he had the governors at the white house. he said to us almost taunting you shouldn't be afraid of the nra. it's time to take action. i have lowered the flags seven times. since then. i'm a gun owner. the vast majority of gun owners and nra members universal background checks we should do everything we can to make sure the guns don't end up in the wrong hands. >> you used to be against background checks. when did you change? >> a public health issue. not a political issue. when i was growing up the nra was a gun safety. hunting sporting organization. it's a political organization now. as i have continued to be lowering flags as we have seen what's happening, steps like universal background check or

red flag laws and indiana passes. common sense things that we can do. and now i'm calling on gun owners to say we don't want guns in the wrong hands. we don't want kids to be afraid in school. >> assault weapons ban which you support. many democrats do. the critics say the final report that was written the official final report essentially said we can't really crime did go down but can't say it was because of the ban. there are so many assault weapons already out there. @wasn't in place long enough to have an effect. >> we are at a point where even major sporting goods chains are no longer selling these. they're not used for hunting or self-defense. if a walmart can stop, we ought to. it's also just that and the larger magazines. they're not used for sporting and when we have the shootings after shootings with the assault weapons. it's time to say we have to try something new. >> you are in a red state.

i'm interested in the conversation you have with your constituents. i have a friend in texas that believes obama was coming for guns and he's a good person and that was his belief. you must hear that all the time. >> it's interesting. like a store owner said i'll miss president obama. he sold more guns and ammo than ever before even though nothing meaningful happened. that's what's happening with the nra. to scare people and put fear in their hearts. when most folks turn around and think we could take meaningful steps if we can get the politics out of it. i hope this moment that we can get beyond the politics and think about how do we better keep kids safe. >> if you were president, how do you -- the president said he's a great negotiator. obviously that's not working out. that's not the case. how do you actually get people

to come together? >> my legislature is 60% republican. i would never get anything done. the next president sure you try to build relationships in washington. you have to take the case to america. you should spend time in kentucky and than washington d.c. once people are saying enough. once people are saying i think of my sixth grade son. how was the first day? i know where to go in case of active shooter. no sixth grader in the country what they should be left with. >> there's a press conference here. >> the two police officers that were trapped upstairs as well as three prisoners and all taken out safely. thus far. however this male is hold up inside here. we're talking to him. for one of the first times

basically no more than 30 or 40 minutes ago. making a little bit of progress. it appeared that his attorney was on the three way line. trying to assure him we weren't here to harm him. but after that conversation ceased, we know that he is still alive. just trying to appeal to him. that he's got a reason he needs to come out and surrender. right now we have gone from a hostage situation to a barricade. because all of the hostages were taken out safely. i can't say enough about what all the responders did, but most importantly what swat did and the support. homeland security and everyone there. that was involved as well as everyone that assisted in negotiations. but again we have a situation that is not completely resolved. we want to get this male out obviously unscathed. we don't know if he's injured.

my conversations with him it doesn't appear he is. i'm not sure. so, we will keep you apprised but didn't want to keep you in the dark about where we were and have you speculate about the status regarding the police officers and the hostages. we are very lucky with six police officers shot and one incident. it is remarkable that i believe a couple of them have been released already. and so it is nothing short of a astounding that in such a confined space that we didn't have more of a tragedy than we did. we're thankful that they were able to get out and got the other folks out. the prisoners that were in there are also unharmed. and i don't know how that happened. because there were multiple gunshots fired.