♪ ♪ the volvo xc90. our most awarded luxury suv. ♪ ♪ ♪ . ♪ i gotta stack of records here stack of records there-i got records scattered all over ♪ . tom tall and the tom cats from 1958. who would have thunk that 60 years later a record player would be a sound bite in a presidential debate. i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. the third democratic debate in is the books for the third time we saw joe biden, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders all together center stage. the chattering class of which i'm a proud member has already called winners and losers, it's

too soon to know whether the debate moved the polling needle. to the sense there was anything memorable it came in the form of a broadside delivered with hud secretary julian castro to the former vice president. >> you said they would have to buy in -- >> buy in -- >> were you forgetting already what you said two minutes ago? are you forgetting already what you said two minutes ago? i can't believe you that said two minutes ago that they had to buy in and now they're saying -- you're forgetting that. >> i thought it was a cheap shot by a candidate of the fringe of the stage seeking to elevate himself which leads me to today's survey question question @smerconish.com, is joe biden's fitness for office fair game for democrats? a natural for this setting.she's

it's difficult to see her faltering in any debate. you can't quarrel with how she says it. bernie was, well, bernie. he has loyal supporters but how sun a known quantity is suddenly about ascendent is questionable. i think for the rest, they did the best to hang on but there were month breakout moments. beto o'rourke got it in on guns. in a sound bite that i'm sure you'll see again. as i said before, the only certainty in this race is that we really don't know what's to come. as "the washington post" pointed out recently, with 417 days in 2008, hillary clinton led the democrats by 19.3 points. of course, barack obama got that nomination. rudy giuliani led the gop by 4.8 points. it was john mccain with the gop nominee then. 2012, at this point, rick perry, rick perry led by republicans by

10.5 points that was mitt romney's nomination. then again in 2016, clinton led the democrats by 21.4 points trump led the gop by 10.5 points. the next debate will be co-hosted by cnn and "the new york times" on october 15. maybe october 16 as well, near columbus, ohio. hoping to make that stage are my next two guests congressman tim ryan and former maryland congressman john delaney. congressman ryan, let me begin with you relative to castro and biden. how was that not ageism? >> well, i did think that was a little bit inappropriate. and it sounds like he was planning on doing. you got to keep it focused on the issues. i'm here in new hampshire right now. the people that i have talked to the last couple of days, they're interested in themselves. they're interested in their own well-being. they're own economic situation. their own issues around health care, retirement, bread and butter issues.

so the democrats need to be talking about that. give your message. be as energetic as you can. as passionate as you can. and let the people decide and then contrast you with the other candidates. that's the best thing we can do moving forward. >> okay. well, i agree with what you've just articulated. but am i right that you yourself said you think that joe biden was declining and you questioned his energy level? >> well, i was having an off-the-record conversation with somebody. and that's a much different than public. i love joe biden. the people are going to have to decide exactly who they want to be their nominee. and i think we've got to focus on the issues. the problem i had really with the debate is that it wasn't really up to the challenges that the country is facing now. i mean, there's an industrial revolution happening in the world and we're missing out. there's a revolution happening with how we educate our kids with trauma-informed care and social and emotional learning. there's a revolution happening with regenerative agriculture

and how we can sequester carbon and help farmers actually help make monies. there's a conversation about how we fuel our veterans with yoga. and i think the political discourse is not up to the challenges that americans are facing every day or the structural or systemic problems we have in this country. that's my biggest problem with the entire conversation happening. >> i'll let go of this subject after one more follow-up. i think i'm hearing you say, it's okay to whisper about your questions pertaining to biden's fitness but not to say it in public? >> well, welcome to politics. i mean, come on. >> yeah, but i'm trying to understand the parameters. >> yes. >> i think julian castro to say, hey, your answer was inconsistent but when he says fewer foyou're forgetting, forgetting two minutes ago,

that's over the line. >> well, i think the whole political conversation today i think a lot of it is over the line. again, we're not even talking about the issues. if people have an issue with joe biden's age, his energy, his positions, they will evaluate it. and i think the best thing other candidates do is do what i'm doing and that's putting out these transformational ideas that i have. how we can pass them in a bipartisan way. and then let -- and do it in an energetic way, do it with your own personality, your own style. and then let them contrast that with all of the other candidates in the race. and i think that ultimately is what the american people want. people are going to cross the lines. it's politics. i mean, you get on social media. the entire twitter sphere is over the line. that's just what's happening today. and i hope we can have some level of decorum. but at the end of the day, it's going to be about ideas and who's working on the ground. and that's what i'm focused on. >> do you have a shot to make

the october debate? >> yeah, yeah, we have a shot. i think the low dollar donation piece is going to be really hard. i mean, we have candidates list really paying $50, $60, $70 to get a one dollar contribution in order to meet the 135,000 low dollar contributions that you need to get on the stage. i think that's a complete artificial barrier here. when a lot of these senate candidates have raised money from high-dollar donors, rolled it into their presidential account and bought basically the low dollar donations and built the low dollar infrastructure out. my goal is how do we start moving our numbers on the ground in early states. that's what we've been doing. i've been in new hampshire the last few days. we've probably pulled 15 or 20 volunteers the last few days. we'll be announcing a big endorsement out of new hampshire in the next 24 to 48 hours. that's how you're going to win this thing. you mentioned in the intro, all

of the different paths in modern history, political history, of what the polling looked like. this thing is just getting started. bill clinton didn't even get into the race until october. and we're having these artificial qualifications, i just think it's breaking up the national rhythm of a campaign. especially in states where people want to meet you three or four times before they vote for you. give it a chance to get rolling a little bit, we're focused on that. >> congressman ryan thanks for being there. >> thanks, michael. if anybody wants to help us, tim ryan for america.com. chip in. >> i want to know what you think, go to my website, smerconish.com. answer my question. for democrats, as i mentioned, garnering a lot of attention from the debate was this. >> hell yes, we're going to take your ak-15s, your ak-47, we're

not going to allow it used against fellow americans anymore. >> it was clear the idea was popular in the hall, in houston it doesn't exactly receive the same level of support across the country. i want to bring in former presidential candidate john delaney. congressman, was that a gift that beto o'rourke just gave to republicans? >> i wouldn't say it's a gift. i do think we have to stay focused on the things we slightly have to do to reduce the amount of gun violence in this country. which is universal background checks. put limitations on sought weapons that we actually used to have on a bipartisan basis and pass red flag laws. those are the things that the american people broadly support in the democratic party and should have a laser-like focus on getting those things done because that will in fact make our country safer. and those are things that i know we can get done. >> i remember catching up with you after detroit in detroit, after the detroit debates. and you expressed to me concern

that the sort of message being communicated by the candidates on that stage was not one that would be helpful in a general election. is that the way you saw what just went on this week in the debate? >> you know, what i was referring to in detroit was the fact that we need to put a candidate -- we need to have a nominee who is running on positions and policies that a majority of the american people support which i think is pretty obvious in many ways. some of these candidates are running in positions that not even a majority of democrats support. and i just think that makes the general election very, very challenging. what i didn't see this week, on that stage, was the leader that we need, that this country needs. and i think the democratic party needs to be focusing on this concept of leadership. this country definitely needs leadership at this moment in time. they need a leader that can bring the country together. the world is changing very rapidly, and someone like myself is the only person who has been the leader is the ceo of two

publicly traded companies and a leader in congress actually has a vision for how the private sector and public sector work well together. we don't need game show antics. we don't need people putting forth ideas that literally not even a majority of the american people -- or majority of democrats support. we need real leadership. someone with resolve. someone to wants to unify the country has a vision for our future and actually want to get things done. >> i am not sure whether it was the questions that were raised or maybe it was the absence of you and ryan and hickenlooper and bullock, but those divisions within the party were not as attenuated in this week's debate. you get the final word. >> look, i think in certain areas we're all very unified. we want to deal with climate change. we want to create a universal for form of health care system.

the question is how do you do it. do your plans make sense and do you have a way of paying for them and can you get them done the one thing that this country can not fafafford is inaction. we've had a broken government. the question is who's the right leader to restore common purpose to this nation and actually start getting things done. i think that was missing from the debate stage. i think on many of these issues, democrats are completely in line with each other. the question becomes who's that leader that we need that can get things done. >> congressman, thanks for being here, appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> what are your thoughts, tweet meconi@smerconish. what do we have kathryn? ageism my ass. biden will not survive trump. i have no problem with julian castro pointing out you're being

inconsistent, mr. president. a moment ago you said "x" and now you're saying "y." what i thought when i watched on my sofa, he's calling him a dottering old fool, that's how i took it. and i'm not alone. it's okay to point out an inconsistency. but when you are repetitive and four times over, are you forgetting, are you forgetting, i can't believe that two minutes ago. you're forgetting. no. that's a cheap shot. up ahead, actress felicity huffman sentenced to 14 days in prison for paying to fix her daughter's college test scores is really just an extreme case of how desperate many parents are for their kids to get into college. and for middle class parents, the cost of tuition is leading to massive debt. we'll talk about it. this is important. it's national suicide prevention week. just this week, two mental health advocates, a megachurch pastor and college head of

counseling both died from suicides. what can we learn from their stories? use, he led the 1985 ncaa championship, but when etoe vance's likeness was used. he brought a lawsuit to challenge the system. he's here to show college athletes the money causing high emotions on both sides, including from pro athlete tim tebow. >> we live in a selfish culture where it's all about us. where it changes what is special from college football or the nfl, where who has the most money, that's where you go.

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make febreze part of your clean routine for whole home freshness. ♪la la la la la. college sports may still be labeled amateur, but they generate so much revenue, there's a growing movement to let the athletes share the wealth. according to forbes magazine college football's 25 most valuable teams combined earn an average of $1.5 billion of profit on annual revenue of $2.7 billion. so that's why it's big news that california's state assembly and senate both unanimously just passed the fair pay to play act. it would allow college athletes to sign endorsement deals and profit from their name, their

image and their likeness. the ncaa isn't happy with the prospect. its president mark emmert implies if the bill passes. my next guest ed o'bannon has been fighting for the rights for profits for a decade back in 1995 he led ucla to the ncaa championship. the tournament's most outstanding player. drafted by the nets. after leaving the sport he recognized his like innocence a basketball game called mc basketball 09. take a look at those images. it was being used without his consent or compensation. so in 2009, o'bannon sued the ncaa as well as the video maker ea sports. ed o'bannon wrote a book about this battle "court justice my inside story of the gather against the ncaa" and joins me now. ed, did you ever get paid -- can we put that back up on the

screen for a minute. look at ed's likeness from the video game versus how he looked in his heyday, did you ever get paid for that? >> no, i didn't. i did not get paid, michael. >> were you forewarned. or did this catch you cold? how did you discover, oh, my god, they're using me in their video game? >> i was, in a nutshell, i was at a friend's house. and his son had been playing the video game the night before. and then, you know, went to his house. you know, he told me about the video game and i wanted check it out. so, he pulled it up. there i was. there was my brother. and all of my teammates for the '95 team. and i was, you know, ecstatic

about it, to be honest with you, initially. and then he told me that, you know, he paid "x" amount of dollars for it, and i didn't get a penny. and that's when it really kind of hit me. and, you know, the rest is history. a week later, two weeks later. sun ny vicarro gave me a call just to say hello. he told me about an idea he had about suing them that sort of thing. i let him know what i just witnessed. he thought i would be perfect to be the lead plaintiff in this lawsuit. so that's really kind of how it started for me. >> i assume that you like what california is trying to do. is it enough? and what of tim tebow's worry that college then could become like the nfl and there won't be any difference between the two?

>> i don't know, i'll answer your question in reverse. i don't know that his words really will be true. i think the athletes -- college athletes, will be able to profit off of their likeness. and just kind of take it from there. i don't know that, you know, you know, they'll be getting paid millions of dollars. that's not what i was asking. that's not what we were asking for. just to control your likeness. so to answer the california question, i absolutely love it, you know. hopefully, when it crosses, this bill crosses governor newsom's desk, he will sign it. i know senator skinner has been advocating for it.

and, so, you know, there's a lot of people behind it. california's in a really good position. they are changing the game. and, you know, from where we sit, we're extremely excited about it. >> i've got to just say from my own perspective, i see a slight difference from the question of should we pay athletes for their collegiate work, athleticism, and the issue of here's ed o'bannon, everybody knows what he looks like. everybody knows his number. everybody knows his style. we're just going to use that in our game. you got to compensate someone who you're cashing in on their celebrity. that's how i see it. anyway, good luck to you. thank for being here. >> my pleasure, my pleasure, michael. thank you for having me. up ahead, "desperate housewives" actress felicity huffman was sentenced friday to polirison and a $30,000 fine fo

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actress felicity huffman was sentenced friday for her participation in the so-called varsity blues college admissions scandal. two weeks in prison, 250 hours

of community service, a $30,000 fine and a year of probation. she must report to prison on october 25. this is all for hiring someone to fix wrong answers on her daughter's s.a.t. so she wouldn't be blocked to a school. wealthy parents very gaming the system any way they can which shows how desperate the parents are for the kids to succeed. but there's actually a more troubling story how that desire has impacted middle class families who want the best for their kids. the sheer cost of college itself and how it impacts their lives. it's being tackled in a brand nah book called "indebted." its author joins me now, she's a profrlg of social and cultural analysis at nyu. actually you call yourself an economic anthropologist. you studied this for seven years with a team of folks. and in your book which i've read, you speak of the moral traps that many of us fall into. what are they?

>> yeah. so families face ail series of moral traps when it comes to college. college is one of the most important goals that middle class families have. and so they take it very, very seriously. on the one hand, they are being told over and over again, that they should save for college. that they should -- that they should pay only the lowest cost possible. and they should at the same time, secure the retirement of parents. at the same time that they should be doing whatever they can to support children in the goal of educating themselves and making themselves into the people that they want to be. jeff and many middle class families are now falling out of the middle class. so that they can afford the tuition that they've secured for the education that they've secured for their kids. >> the high cost of college puts enormous pressure on the

families that have to contribute to young adults going to college. so families do whatever they can. they pull money out of their retirement funds. they draw down whatever savings they can. they take on second jobs. they draw in grandparents. and grandparents can possibly have fund s to contribute, too. all of that means that the family will not be better off in the long run. and we've seen the effects of that. >> caitlin, you speak of the tectonic shift in terms who is responsible for affording tuition. what do we need to do? do we need to reverse that burden? >> i believe we doll need to reverse that burden. i think that we have a very solid model from our history about investing in our public colleges and universities that make them as strong as they can possibly be. in order to educate our young

adults. and i think that has been something we have forgotten, state legislatures have been hacking away at public university budgets for decades. and i think that we need to reinvest in our historical commitments. >> in other words, the burden needs to shift, you argue, from middle class families to the state, to the government? >> yes. thinking back to what we've had. >> why focus on the middle class, for those who have not yet read "indebted?" >> i focus on the middle class because that is a group that historically has been understood to have the easiest time sending their kids to college outside of the very wealthy. the middle class are the people that are supposed to be able to do just that, open up opportunities for their kids

without experiencing too much of a burden but that is not what we have today. >> book is called "indebted." thank you for being here. >> thank you, michael. i want to remind you to answer the survey questi question @smerconish.com. i'm told there's social media buzz. is joe biden's fitness for office fair game for democrats? still to come, after a rash of suicides, university of pennsylvania with a resource for students hired a new head of psychology services. this week, he died by suicide. since 1999, suicide rates jumped 40%. the topic of suicide came up during this emotional moment during a bernie sanders event just last night. >> now, they're saying i didn't re-sign or do something -- >> how are you going to pay off -- >> i can't, i can't. i'm going to kill myself.

>> stop it. you're not going to kill yourself. >> i can't do this, i have huntington's disease. do you know how hard that is? you probably don't, do you? i can't drive. i can barely take care of myself. >> all right. let's talk later at the end of the meeting, okay? okay. i guess those cows must actually be big dogs. sit! i said sit! you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia - a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that can disrupt your life for weeks. in severe cases, pneumococcal pneumonia can put you in the hospital. it can hit quickly, without warning, making you miss out on what matters most. just one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia. it's not a yearly shot. prevnar 13® is approved for adults to help prevent

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i can. the two words whispered at the start of every race. every new job. and attempt to parallel park. (electrical current buzzing) each new draft of every novel. (typing clicks) the finishing touch on every masterpiece. (newborn cries) it is humanity's official two-word war cry. words that move us all forward. the same two words that capital group believes have the power to improve lives. and that, for over 85 years, have inspired us to help people achieve their financial goals. talk to your advisor or consultant for investment risks and information.

but we're also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. this weeker during national suicide prevention week, two people devoted to helping others combat suicide thoughts died by

suicide themselves. on monday, jarrid wilson committed suicide. he had been open about his own struggles with depression. he tweeted that on monday, the same day that he passed he was officiating a funeral for a jesus-loving woman who took her own life today. adding your prayers are greatly appreciated for the family. also on monday, gregory eels took his own life. he was the executive director of counseling and psychological services at the university of pennsylvania, a job he'd taken in march, after spending 15 years doing dollar work at cornell. ten students sid s die side by suicide. he'd been an outspoken advocate of mental health, even given a talk on resilience in 2015.

>> if your heart is broken make heart with the pieces. all of us will face times when our heart is broken. and resilience is about what we do with that. can we make art with those pieces. she had filed off the curves of what life had thrown at her. i think this is a great way to think about resilience. my work at cornell is helpful because i see a lot of students that want to be perfect. it's really about shifting that mind frame. >> these two deaths is a stark reminder that no one is immune to this issue. according to researchers at ohio state university who evaluated national suicide data from 1999 to 2016, suicide rates jumped 41% in that time period. with me now is someone who knows all too well the tragedy of which i speak, peg giwa gy weim

lost her husband. peggy, your es ska share essayy of not wanting to tell a dinner companion about the passing of your husband. it really speaks to the stigma that still applies? >> yeah, do you want me to tell you that story? >> briefly, sure. >> yeah. whenever i went out, i mean, for a long time after my husband died by suicide, i kind of stayed holed up in my house and with my close friends because there's like there's an "s" on your head for suicide. for example at this dinner party, a woman said are you divorced? i said, no, no, actually, i'm widowed. and she said -- because i thought widowed is better than divorced and i could just put her off. she goes, oh, did he have cancer

i immediately said, yes, had did, because i knew what she would think if i said suicide. she went on to say what kind of cancer. and i went on to say pancreatic cancer. i felt more and more shame, not only shame that my husband died from suicide but shame i was lying about it. then she asked how long from his diagnosis until he died? and i got up and left the table. it seems everywhere i went, people are very curious about suicide. and they look at you like couldn't you have done something? couldn't you have fixed it? what was wrong with your marriage? it was kind of like the kate spade story. but, yeah, that was the dinner conversation i wrote about. >> i don't doubt that you felt that sense of shame. i wonder if shame in a fiction in so far as the issue is so widespread. we're all a degree away of

separation from someone. if we would come to terms with that and have more dialogue in that regard, we could lessen those burdens. >> i think you're right, michael, but i think it's more difficult when you're a spouse or parent. i've gotten a lot of emails or contacts from people who are spouses or parents. because we feel we're responsible to keep these people we love tethered to life. we don't understand, with mental illness, sometimes, it predates you. you don't really -- you can't fix it any more than you can cure pancreatic cancer. i think the shame is what if, why didn't i. could i have done this or that. suicide is very different than other deaths for survivors. and the shame is like a sticky film that stays with you, not just your loved one who had shame which might have driven them to their death. >> give advice to friends and family of someone who's gone

through this as to how they should act? i know that many say stupid things, not deliberately. what advice would you give everyone else? >> the people who haven't gone through it and are talking to someone who have. >> yes. >> i would say don't ask a lot of questions. i know you're curious, it's like rubber necking along the side of the road. it's amazing to me the questions people ask. i mean, some people even ask, how did he do it. that's kind of insensitive -- kind of insensitive, and more about you, than about caring for the other person. the way you care about a friend who has lost someone that way is just to be present for them. stay out of their space if you're not a close friend. come in close, if you are. just be present and caring and let the person talk when they want to talk, and about what they want to talk about. it's better to be quiet and presence and caring. and follow the leave of the person who is grieving.

>> the essay was tremendous. i posted on my website. i hope that people will google it and read it. i appreciate you so much coming on to discuss it. >> thank you so much, michael. >> thank you, peggy. coming up, how well do you know the constitution? and i want to remind you to answer the survey questi question @smerconish.com where, by the way, you will find peggy's essay. is joe biden's fitness for office fair game for democrats? here you go little guy.

a cockroach can survive submerged underwater for 30 minutes. wow. yeah. not getting in today. terminix. defenders of home. i can. the two words whispered at the start of every race. every new job. and attempt to parallel park. (electrical current buzzing) each new draft of every novel. (typing clicks)

the finishing touch on every masterpiece. (newborn cries) it is humanity's official two-word war cry. words that move us all forward. the same two words that capital group believes have the power to improve lives. and that, for over 85 years, have inspired us to help people achieve their financial goals. talk to your advisor or consultant for investment risks and information. talk to your advisor or consultant now, there's skyrizi. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 3 out of 4 people achieved... ...90% clearer skin at 4 months... ...after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections... ...and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection... ...or symptoms such as fevers,... ...sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs... ...or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. i feel free to bare my skin. visit skyrizi.com.

i bet we could call use a civics lesson. for many public school children, help will arrive tuesday. first, the house of representatives has how many voting members? second what do we call the first ten amendments to the constitution? how many justices are on the supreme court of the united states? and fourth, on what day was the declaration of independence adopted? you should know these answers. 435 members of the house. first ten amendments are called the bill of rights. nine supreme court justices remember a switch in time saved nine. declaration of independent, july

4, 1776. all right for extra credit, what year was the constitution written? that answer is 1787. each of these is a question on the naturalization test which must be passed, along with a rudimentary english exam in order for someone to become a naturalized citizen of the united states. if you were born here, you got a pass. show of hands at home, how many had all five correct? aha. all the more reason that this tuesday public schools across the nation will recognize constitution day and citizenship day. the day commemorates the september 17 signing of the constitution. since 2004 educational institutions that receive federal funds are required to educate their students on the u.s. constitution on this day. the suggestions from the u.s. department of education range from visit the constitution in person. to make a quill pen. to create your own bill of

rights. but the most straight forward one is try reading the constitution. also on tuesday, the national constitution center, our friend jeffrey rosen and others, will launch a new interactive constitution in the presence of justice neil gorsuch. it will feature classroom exchanges with paired classrooms in states across the country for discussions about the moderated. look, one day is not enough. but it's a step in the right direction. consider this, in the 2016 election, despite intense interest in trump v. clinton, 41.9% of eligible voters, over 100 million people, did not cast a ballot. i keep my copy of the constitution handy at all times.

given to me by ron paul, no less. still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook comments. and we'll give you the final results of the survey question. last shot to go vot vote @smerconish.com. is joe

he said you got four fifths right. the constitution was adopted july 2nd, signed on the 4th. you owe me. i owe you a beer, lanny. thank you for that. time to see how you responded to the survey question. is joe biden's fitness for office fair game for democrats? survey says 56% say yes with more than 7,000 cast. the numbers high. i'm surprised about that. you heard my thoughts on this. i'm not going to be repetitive. i thought it was a cheap shot. here's social media reaction this week. what are you thinking? just because it's a cheap shot does not make it irrelevant. jamal, to your point, i think it will seep into the consciousness, like the record player, like a lot of other issues. it will be out there and people

will draw on it. what else came in? smerconish, every candidates fitness for office should be fair game. trump doesn't need this kind of help from democrats. amy klobuchar was asked about it on cnn in the spin room. she said i didn't think it was cool. i thought it was distasteful. everyone is free to draw their own conclusion. you can watch and come to a conclusion. to sit there and say are you forgetting, like schooling an elder. no. klobuchar was right. one more if i have time. lanny davis, huh. please have more about tuition killing the middle class. the top candidates are only giving financial aid to low income families. the whole premise of the book "indebted" is this is such a burden, financial and emotional to the middle class, really up

ending you are lives worrying about college tuition. join me for my tour in sunnyvale, california. thanks for watching. see you next week. if you're 65 or older, even if you're healthy,

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