they also know thanks to social media they have the funds to travel or to take the time off if you want it. one more note, there were more than 113,000 people in america on transplant lists as of january of this year according to government statistics. so waj wants to encourage everyone to be a donor, it could save a life. >> i'm a donor and my wife is a donor for exactly this reason. welcome to "primetime." a new battle over president trump's taxes. what is his best argument to keep resisting transparency. and we'll find out what is behind this president's obsession with our last president. does he think attacking obama may hold the key to winning a second term?

and elizabeth warren may have taken a step closer to winning. we have the head of a group that just gave her a key endorsement that used to belong to bernie sanders. what do you say? let's get after it. locked and loaded, the catchy phrase president trump tweeted about a possible american response to the armed drone assault on the saudi oil fields. he thinks iran did it. he has the backup of u.s. officials. but look at some of the words that surround locked and loaded. there's reason to believe that we know the culprit but are waiting to hear from the kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of the attack. the president is taking his cues from mbs? tulsi gabbert made a stunning analogy. >> you're offering our military assets to the dictator of saudi arabia to use as he sees fit is

a betrayal of my brothers and sisters in uniform. my fellow service members and i, we are not your prostitutes. you are not our pimp. p >> provocative words. obviously it's going to get coverage. we have matt schlapp here, he leads the american conservative union. >> good to be here. >> this is not petty, i'm bad, you're worse politics going on here. do you have confidence that the president has the people around him to help negotiate this very tight space with iran? >> i think it's a tough question. i think it would be tough for any president to negotiate this, and i have great confidence in the team he has pulled together. i think has the president has proceeded in his presidency, as the first outsider president since probably george washington, he's figured out the job as he's gone and i think he's pulled the people around

him he trusts. >> he just got rid of his national security, going on his fourth juaone. >> he and john bolton clearly had disagreement. the president has the right to make changes as barack obama made changes at the chief of staff level almost every year he was president, bill clinton went through chief of staffs. it's around-the-clock work. it has to be one of the toughest jobs in politics, same for the national security advisers. >> national security is much more sensitive than chief of staff. >> they're similar jobs. with chief of staff, there's one. with the national security adviser, you have almost like a whole war cabinet. mike pompeo was very able. i know several of the people involved in deputy rolls. >> but chief of staff is a political, functionary, national

security adviser it sounds like and to be honest, this is not this president's strong point. >> he had the least experience of all thee deals with in foreign policy, but that's who we've been electing president. barack obama didn't have a lot of foreign policy experience, george w. bush didn't have a lot of foreign policy experience. the last president to have a significant amount of foreign policy experience was george bush 41. we've done it over and over and over again. the question is what is he going to do with the challenges before him. i talked to several people who advised him and national security and said what are we going to do if this country is challenged? it's a question every president is asked. >> he set a hard table for himself because he's got a divided populous that he spends a lot of time attributed and fomenting division. now this is something of his own reckoning. he blew up that iran deal to our next topic, which is negating obama, which is something of

fundamental importance to this president, he blew up that deal for that reason. he had nothing to replace it with. he just thought doing this is disruptive, this is why they brought me here. he loosed that company on the middle east. they are vindictive and old and savvy as we both know as students of history. he started this. this is maybe the biggest threat to his presidency, matt. >> obama let loose $150 billion in assets to the iran regime, the number one funder of terror. you can make an argument of whether they had a legal right to that. that money will go to fomenting jihad around the globe. i urged the president to pull out of the iran deal. the iran deal that we had had no proper verification. >> that's not true. >> it is true. >> no, it is not true. it had more vare if verificatio before it. >> we had to give them notice

before we could walk in any facility so they could cover their tracks. >> presidents of both parties did this. we didn't want a confrontation with north korea so we tried to extend the timeline by which they would nuclearize. it's a similar policy obama approached with iran, extend the time and hope that something changed. >> you had a deal, multi-coalition, big countries that iran had to worry about -- >> iran would have a nuclear weapon at the end of that term. >> it was only about enriching, it was a decade and now you have nobody looking at what they're doing. they ran around in syria, they're doing it in yemen in a situation out of control and now they're bombing his buddy in his back yard, if that's true. >> people love the idea that a treaty was somehow going to keep iran in a box. the fact is a lot of people and i will say i was one of them believed that that treaty was an appeasement to iran. it giave them funding to do all

this around the globe. it we should try a different way. >> i don't understand this argument. >> just like north korea. do you agree that on north korea it would be better if we had taken steps ten and 20 years ago to prevent north korea from getting a nuclear weapon? >> i don't believe we can look back that way. >> so it's inevitable and there's nothing you can do? >> no, you made deals with partners like iran -- >> that just delayed the time they get the nuclear weapon. >> it delayed the window but gave you a pause and gave you something to work with. you removed it and have nothing except you think iran would have bombed, if that's true and the president says he believes it's true because u.s. officials are telling him -- >> what is true? >> that iran was behind what happened in saudi arabia. >> i can't know. i know what i read and it appears that's the case. >> that's what the president said and that's what he says what the officials say. that takes us to another issue,

will the people bleaelieve the american people. >> i know of you talk about the president fomenting division. barack obama at this point in his presidency was at 39% in his presidential approvals. we don't like with what obama was doing to the country, we disagreed vehemently and a lot of us felt we couldn't voice it as extensively as those under this administration can express it. >> i covered that administration. we weren't dealing with anything like with what we're dealing with right now and that goes for obama also. he was coming out of one of the worst economic situations this country has ever seen, and as is fair play, he wound up paying for that early on. he still had spikes over 50. this president has had no spikes over 50. he never gets a spike over majority -- >> barack obama had a spike over

50 for two significant periods of time, one when he assassinat assassinated bin laden, good for him. the second time was as he approached november 2012, if you track where obama has been as he was leading up to reelection, trump is about where he is or higher. the fact is the direction of the country -- >> i have not seen that. this president has the highest negative ratings we've ever seen. you have over half the country who thinks he can't be believed. >> that's a different question. >> let me take a break. let's come back and talk about what we think is going to matter in this next election cycle. we'll finish on this point. we'll take a look at taxes and where you are on that about what transparency means and we'll go forward from there, all right? >> deal. >> i gave you a little cheat there on what the tease is but obviously what is going to matter in this election. will transparency matter? is this going to wind up about

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back with matt schlapp trying to get a feel for where conservatives are coming forward into this next election with the president. thanks for staying. we were talking about where he is popular, unpopular. they heard both sides on that. >> the numbers are the numbers. the fact is that the people who say that trump is so demonized and hated by the american people that somehow his polls are low, it's important to remember he's higher than where bill clinton was, he higher than where barack obama. in fact, barack obama in september, the same time, the year before the 14 months or whatever before his reelection, he was at a lower approval rating than donald trump. as much as people focus on those who don't like him, there's a whole other part of the country that love him.

his approval with rfconservativ republicans in modern history. >> do you believe any other president being told six out of ten believe you don't deserve a second term? >> i agree that clear politics has him at 45 or 50. what matters is do pollsters accept him? >> if they're conservative slanted and getting more people in your party that gives officer representative sample. >> i'm not talking about polls that are slanted. i'm saying i'll agree he has people on the other side that don't like him strongly. >> majority of people. >> by the way, most people in barack obama's presidency didn't like what he was doing. the difference with donald trump is you can't find a policy on a major issue that is different than what he said he would do.

under barack obama you can find many differences. donald trump, you can't be surprised, you don't have to like him, you can say i don't like the twitter, you can say he's dividing people all that you want. he said what he was going to do. he's simply doing it. it's pretty simple. >> the problem with numbers is you can always find one you like. >> i'm happy to talk about numbers i don't like. >> here's one. other than carter and again, unpresenu unprecedented problems at home and abroad, which is one we'll have to think about because he might have created his own problems. >> hong kong protesters, that's a hard challenge. >> other than carter, they were at 32, 33, 34. >> i just walked through the numbers where obama is. you can say jimmy carter is the basement. >> obama was at 43 at this time in his administration.

>> the way i look at polls is this, instead of cherry picking one, you have a cnn poll, i believe you believe in the cnn poll, fox believes in the fox polls. i look at the average of all the polls. some people say the polls are skewed to trump and some skewed against trump, that's a waste of tim time. obama was lower than where trump is at this time. >> the time you get screwed up is if you have a bad economy or a scandal abroad. >> and that's what -- >> kavanaugh -- >> no, that's not true. i think a large majority of the american people are sick and tired of talking about his taxes -- >> not his taxes. the taxes make no sense to

anybody. >> i' i'll give you the scandal. he did not say i'm going to distract and lie and create -- >> doesn't propagandize that. >> what's the propaganda? >> i would lo to go through who determined what the lies are. a lot of it is split capolitica and errors. >> just today -- i never said i'd meet with preconditions -- >> i don't think the iran regime, the north korean regime. >> on taxes, nobody gets it. you say there's nothing in your taxes. show them. it will show transparency that we can take you at your word and maybe you're right. >> we have talked about this so many times. there's a lot of people who believe that trump is not giving his taxes because he has something to hide. the fact is in a democracy, he's

up in just 14 months, the right way to handle this is if you think in his taxes it shows somehow he's tied to putin -- >> you don't think someone who wants to be president should have to show their taxes? >> i don't think it should be mandated. especially somebody who has the complicated financial structures he has in which we haven't seen in a president. i think the american people, chris, are exhausted. at least half of us are exhausted from this. >> you believe that presidential candidates should not reveal their financial position through their taxes to the american people? >> i think they're okay with the fact that donald trump gave an explanation to the american people has to why he wasn't turning them over and i thisnk e spent two years -- bob mueller had the ability to look at donald trump east taxes. >> he did not look at the taxes. >> i have good feelings he didn't do it. >> your feelings don't matter. >> look --

>> they didn't say one way another but they had access to every document they wanted. >> ywe don't know they did. >> yes, they did. >> how do you know? >> according to the white house lawyers, they were given every document. they didn't have to go through the taxes. >> reporter: did mueller get the taxes? >> i believe -- >> you believe. you don't nope whether he had the taxes, true or false? >> i believe that mueller looked at every financial -- >> you don't know he had access to the taxes -- >> he had the access to the taxes. >> if he'd turn these over, we wouldn't even be having the conversation. >> that's not true. the democrat strategy is to beat him on scanned and and personal impropriety. they want to find the next phony story. >> everybody else puts out their

taxes. >> nobody in modern time has had as complicated taxes -- >> when's our last billionaire president? >> i don't know that we have one now. we have tax professionals that could look through this. >> then you're saying the forbes 400 is wrong? >> you know where they get their information? from him. >> a lot of sources. >> do you know what they do when they look at it? go ask o'brien over at msnbc who was at the "times," what happens when you look at it? the number goes down, down, down, down. >> all i'm saying is the fishing expedition, whether or not it's impeachment or anything else. >> if he showed the taxes, all the intrigue goes away. >> that's the opposite of the truth. look at cnn alone. if they had ten years or eight years of trump's taxes, you don't think they're going to take the next 14 months trying to find any small flaw they can find in there and say that disqualifies him for reelection? the american people get the game on this, at least half of us do.

what we want to talk about is the issues. even in this conversation, let's talk about iran, saudi arabia, guns, let's talk about taxes, let's talk about socialized medicine, let's talk about these issues. >> hold on, just to be clear, he doesn't talk about those things. because he doesn't talk about those things. >> two years on russian collusion. >> i'm sorry, when russia interferes in our election and the president's campaign is going out of its way -- >> barack obama didn't stop them. >> he did not know what he needed to do. we knew eventually and he went to mcconnell, mcconnell wouldn't do it in a bipartisan way and that president didn't want to -- >> he doesn't have to do what mitch mcconnell wants. >> he made a mistake. mitch mcconnell do plenty of things that obama wanted. he said i'm here to make him a one-term president. >> that's how the parties work. we try to beat each other. >> you're supposed to represent

people who have similar ideals, not just be oppositional. >> same as the news media. >> i'm asking the man to put out his taxes. >> you're a journalist, you want more information so you could say he's a crook. >> i would love the ability to say we've had the people scrub the taxes, we've expect too much time on it. >> would you agree that the mash majority of people wasted time on rust collusion? >> no. his campaign was running around trying to have contacts they shouldn't have had. did they commit crimes? no, i don't believe they did. >> so you get the taxes, you get them 100% fair? you say they won't be transfixed on a new way to get them?

we are distracted on issues that don't matter. >> he doesn't talk about policy, matt, and you know it. >> i disagree. >> when is the last time he talked about his vision of tax policy for this country? we're working on a tax cut and 83% of every dollar went to me. >> this is where i was trying to get to with the polls before we took it to the break. under donald trump, more americans feel better about their economic situation, which is predominantly middle class people than they did under the socialism of barack obama. the fact is his policies are working to help people in their lives. here's the deal, here's the bet. if what i'm saying is hyped, he won't win. >> not true. you could be totally wrong on your numbers analysis and he could still win. >> if what i'm saying is accurate, he will win a second term because, guess what, you can go through all the fantasy of russia changed a vote. >> i never said they changed a vo vote. >> there's no collusion to worry

about. >> collusion is trying to do things to get close to people with foreign power. >> they doesnidn't do that. >> no, he was told we've got stuff about russia. you're not supposed to take a meeting like that. >> chris, let it go. >> so you'd be okay for me to do that? i have russian information, you say take the meeting? >> i have told you i wouldn't have had that meeting but it doesn't mean anything was untoward done in the meeting. >> they didn't get the information. >> can we talk about the economy? can we talk about guns? can we talk about the issues? >> we can but i got to go now. >> let's not talk about any more russian collusion. it's not going to do any good. >> i'm not somebody who believes in beating a dead horse. >> the horse is not breathing, chris. >> when you have a russian interference plot and the president denies it, he is asking for investigation. >> he got two and a half years of it. >> and if you want to vet th

investigate them, go ahead. >> transparency is something else. i like disagreement with decency. >> that goes back to you as well. >> 20 democrat, three republicans are out to replace this president. of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. we'll debate the value of that next. r... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

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president obama thought it wasn't a good thing to have russia in. president obama. president obama. president obama. >> and obviously there's some thinking behind this president going after the last one. you saw how it was a point of comparison for matt schlapp. so what does this mean? all right, let's get into that as the great debate. we got two great people for you tonight. show them. who wants to see my face? thanks for being both here. so, anna, let me start with you. why do you believe this president is going after president obama the way he does and what does it mean in the election analysis? >> because he's jealous of him, because he haunted by him, because he's obsessed with him, because he can't stop thinking about him. look, people talk about trump derangment syndrome. well, trump has obama derangment syndrome. and trump always needs a foil,

whether it's crooked hillary or pocahontas or sleepy joe or crazy bernie or whatever it is. he always needs foil to keep the flames alive, somebody to fight against. but he also been obsessed with obama from the get-go, even before he was president. one of the ways he became relevant in politics unfortunately and sadly for the republican party is by pedaling the conspiracy theory about birtherism against obama. >> right but is this a reminder to the base, this is a reminder of what i do and judge me on that? >> every republican and democrat comes into officer says i'm here to fix the mess of my predecessor. his entire reelection was look what i inherited. why would you want to go back to

the horrible world of george w. bush and he used george w. bush as a foil. the first few months blauk wara obama was in office, he picked on others. millions of americans suffered under the slowest recovery in modern history. when he won michigan, he won it by counties that voted very significantly for obama that swung significantly to trump. 1.8, 1.9, then to 3.2, 3.0 under donald trump. >> that's not the best rationale. i hear you on the other part. >> that would be true if what we were talking about was policy.

but when you have a president trump who is questioning obama's book deals and obama's netflix deals, it obsession. it's ridiculous. it's petty. >> it's a way to get it in the news. he tweeted about it and now we're talking about it and he's a master at doing it. >> they're incredibly popular and he's jealous. >> the apples-to-apples comparison doesn't work economically. their rates of growth are about the same. the worst three of obama and the best of trump, his numbers have started to slide now. >> that's not true, chris. >> it's absolutely true. >> it's not true. we had the slowest recovery in modern history and there were millions of americans suffering especially in the manufacturing sector. the president is saying everything is getting better, getting better. the americans said it's not getting better for mere and president trump was a rejection of of that. that's why he got elected.

>> obama was in a huge hole that certainly was not of his making. >> now you're making my other point, you blame bush for it. >> i'm not blaming anybody. i'm telling you the reality, i covered it. it was an economic reality. politicians and pundits like to ascribe blame. i like to talk about what it is. trump is inheriting, which is okay, a tail wind economy. >> he was inheriting an incredibly slow recovery and anemic growth that wasn't necessarily affecting people in manhattan and l.a. but it was affecting people in the midwest and the manufacturing sector and they voted for president trump, they really elected him. as soon as he gets into office, we start getting 3%, 3.4% growth. >> but why wouldn't we? you had a relatively strong economy and he juiced it with a tax cut. >> the last three quarters -- >> the last three quarters of obama -- >> what the hell does that have to do with a netflix deal?

what the hell does that have to do with a netflix deal, which is a completely private sector thing and something consumers will judge on. he wants obama as a foil. it's true, a lot of republicans thought obama had overregulated everything so trump has come out and if obama was for puppies and apple pie, then trump is against puppies and apple pie because he feels that it feeds his base. but his obsession to obama is to the point that he's going after a netflix deal. look, maybe he'll get a netflix deal and a random house deal, god forbid he had actually to read a book, much less write a book. he's probably in the white house because of tv contracts. what he has with obama is this crazy competition of, you know, and game of chicken of who is the biggest dude. >> here's the thing, we will see how it pays off or not and

relatively soon. it gives the american people confidence, mike, if this president can be talking about obama's netflix deal with what's going on with iran and china, maybe he's got a better plan than some of us suspect. i appreciate you making the case, anna, you, too. elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, neck and neck in the polls. tonight a major segment of the progressive movement picked who they want to win. last time they wanted sanders. this time they chose elizabeth warren. why and what does it mean next. , your mammoth masterpiece. and...whatever this was. because we make our meat with the good of the deli and no artificial preservatives. make every sandwich count with oscar mayer deli fresh.

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thousands of people showed up for elizabeth warren's rally this evening here in new york. the senator had some new ammo on her side, an endorsement from the working families parties. they a progressive group that had previously given its support to bernie sanders in 2016. we have maurice mitchell, the national director for the working families party. pleasure to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> so why warren and not sanders? >> let me first say it's 2019 and we have two structural change, big, bold progressive candidates that have built huge grass roots followings in the democraticprocess.

>> but you picked one. why? >> so our grass roots members and our volunteers and our state committee, we engaged in a very long process and we came out and i'm so proud of the process and so proud that we chose elizabeth warren and let me tell you why. if you look at her, they joke about she has a plan for it but if you look at it and take a step back, green new deal so we could save the planet, an historically big picture housing policy. you know, medicare for all. to take the insurance companies between you and your doctor. so health care could be a right and not a commodity that's traded. >> bernie does the same thing and he wrote the damn bill. >> that's absolutely right and we have so much respect for bernie and his followers and in 2016 we endorsed bernie. in 2020 you have a field of dozens of candidates and so we wanted to engage in a process that was deeply democratic where we could decide early what to

do. even as the field was still shaking out. the reason we did it is because time is one resource when you lose it, you never can recoup it. >> so what was the defereniffer between the two? >> what i can talk about positively is why we endorsed warren. i have nothing but positive things to say about bernie, his followers and his movement. i think it's a plus for working people, the people that we represent that we have two candidates that are advancing this. you saw the debate stage where they flanked each other, right, and so we want to encourage that with fellow travelers who agree with the policy change in both camps to flank these ideas and to organize. and we encourage other organizations -- >> i'm with you but let's get after it. you could argue they're splitting a vote, okay, and i'm asking you why her and not him when it was him the last time and when you say why you picked

her, i'm not arguing with your reasons, you're allowed your process, but they check the same boxes. >> well, listen, we did a rank choice vote. >> so this was a vote of members. >> this was a vote of members and our national committee, which are grass roots activists that are part of people's organizations -- >> and more voted for her than him? >> absolutely. >> so that's what it was. >> and now we're moving forward with our candidate and we couldn't be more proud. and the other thing i want to say is we want to encourage other organizations to choose their candidate and to organize under their candidate. our message is that we have to start organizing. >> what if one of them doesn't win? what if it's biden? what if it's about buttigieg? would you back them? >> when you look at the democratic stage and up look at the -- you look at the last debate, those folks, there's a sea between them and donald trump. there's a sea between them and

donald trump. but right now the conversation is about the nomination and we think that the right strategy is a bold, progressive policy prescription. we think that's the right strategy to be the democratic nominee and defeat trump, both are aligned. >> you are the blue collar component of that party in its most active form. that's why your endorsement matters and i'm happy to have you here. as we go on with the campaign, i believe whoever captures the head and heart of the working families in this country is going to be the true product of change culturally because they are the people that must recognize culturally and economically -- >> agree. >> let's keep that got to have a salon effect. >> 100%. >> big night for elizabeth warren. what will it mean? we'll see in the polls soon enough. >> the president now, what is

his big threat, elizabeth warren, whoever comes out of the democratic party? sure, sure. but i have an argument to you there is a bigger threat to his reelection and it is one of his own creation. the argument next. at t-mobile, we can't give you unlimited summer, but we can give you unlimited talk, text and data for just $30 a line for 4 lines. and that comes on our newest signal. no signal reaches farther or is more reliable. so you can... share more sunsets. stream more videos. and stay connected with friends while you slide into fall. all for just $30/line.

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in fact... i've got a hand modeling gig that starts right now. earn 1.5% cash back on everything you buy with freedom unlimited. oooh. my hand looks good. chase. make more of what's yours. this president may have created a monster. you know, there are very few one-term presidents. if you have a good economy and the country is not facing a severe foreign threat, the president usually wins. that takes me to iran. a u.s. official tells cnn the saudi oil attacks were launched from inside iran. the president actually even sided with the intel experts for a change and agrees that's what it seems like. now, we have to remember this situation started as one more way to show that trump would undo all things obama by getting rid of the iran nuclear deal. but now it may be the key to his own undoing. the problem started with breaking the only check we had on iran, all right?

and replacing it with nothing. reviving an active enemy in iran and insulting a number of our allies who signed on to the deal. so now you have an economy that is skittish, as we saw just today, and iran with reason to believe that this president is more mouth than muscle. look at today. >> i don't want war with anybody. i'm somebody that would like not to have war. >> for the record, great. diplomacy, soft force like sanctions, if do you it in concert with allies, it can work as well as the military. pain and pressure that creates cooperation if not capitulation. the problem is this president blew up the coalition when he broke the deal, and he can't even seem to stick to message, and message matters. look at yesterday versus today. yesterday, saudi arabia oil supply was attacked. there's reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loading depending upon

verification, but are waiting to hear from the kingdom as to whom they believe was the cause of this attack and under what terms we would proceed. think about the message in that one tweet to iran. the mighty u.s. is waiting on saudi arabia to dictate how they proceed? and they know the u.s. knows what happened. so now what happens if there is no action? and they know president trump reportedly ordered military strikes against iran after that american drone was shot down. remember that? and he called it off last minute. what message did that send? now, again, i'm not arguing in any way that force is the answer. this country has spent too much blood and treasure on unending conflicts. and this president knows that too. so there better be no military action in this situation even if the president calls for it without congress. it is time for that authorization for the use of military force to be redebated, renegotiated, and reissued.

that's what the constitution calls for, and now it matters. but here's the political impact. it's not easy, and the president owns all of it. and he is not well equipped to deal with this, and now he doesn't even have a full team around him. iran just said they won't meet with this president even though they're going to be here at the u.n. next week. and they're watching him struggle, not even get the talking points straight. listen. >> do you have pre-conditions for that meeting? >> no pre-conditions, no. they want to meet, i'll meet. you want to talk good, otherwise you can have a bad economy for the next three years. >> no pre-conditions? >> not as far as i'm concerned. no pre-conditions. >> so he said that time and time again. then this. >> there were always conditions because the conditions, if you look at it, the sanctions are not going to be taken off. so the sanctions, that's a condition. so, you know, that's why the press misreported it. >> listen, this is not the

typical situation of just exposing this president for obvious and ugly double-speak. it's about exposing this country to a major threat, and this president owns it because he created it. now, making this problem was the easy part. the hard part is how to solve it, and we will be watching. all right. i'm going to take a break. when i come back, d. lemon and i are going to debate snl firing its brand-new cast member because of what they perceived as bigoted comments he made last year. right move? next. of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick.

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. snl fired shane gillis today just days after it was announced he was going to join the cast. he tried to explain bigoted comments and slurs about gays and chinese-americans on his paddock podcast by saying he's a

comedian who pushes boundaries. sometimes he misses and he apologizes to anybody who was actually offended. let's bring in d. lemon. right move, wrong move? >> for what? >> snl. >> i'll leave it to snl to decide if they want to fire him. i'm actually torn on this one because on the one side, i really hate counterculture, and i hate the whole boycott culture. i think snl made the decision, whatever decision they wanted to make. i also think people should be, if they did something wrong, then they have to face the repercussions. but i think comedians, you know, we were just talking about this. i was just talking about this with the guys. comedians are going to go the way of clowns if we, you know, continue to just -- i don't know -- just scrutinize everything they say. but the one -- the one rule of comedy, i think, that applies to this is that it has to be funny. and what he said -- >> i don't agree. >> hold on. let me finish my thought. >> go ahead. >> what he said was not funny,

and he didn't say it -- if he was doing a stand-up routine and he was making you think, and he was using offensive language in some way that it made you uncomfortable, but then it made you think, this was not that. this was a podcast, basically like me and you talking now. just having a conversation. there's no performance here. there's no whatever. we're having a conversation and he's saying these words. >> well, he and the other guy were trying to be funny this their depiction of chinatown. >> i didn't think they were trying to be funny. i thought they were having a conversation. >> no. it was a comedy podcast. they were trying to be funny. obviously they were failing by is, nl standards. that's why he got removed varsz. that's fine. obviously snl has the right to do it. we're discussing whether or not it is right. here's why i don't like funny as a cover. because if you say something ugly about me and people laugh, that doesn't make it okay. so it's about what do we want to invite, and how do we want to deal with what we don't