chris cuomo is off tonight. enough breaking news to write a week's worth of headline, rudy giuliani -- attorney general barr was tied to wider efforts to discredit the mueller account of the 2016 election interference. also the president calling for the man investigating him, congressman adam schiff, suggesting he maybe should be arrested for treason. that in new reporting on how deeply concerned that people close to the president were and perhaps still are about his conduct on phone calls with foreign leaders. there's no reporting on a president who does not grasp the impeachment jeopardy he is so clearly in. more with all of this now from caitlin collins who joins us from the white house. the president invoked the prospect of a civil war or raised the specter of it on

twitter. >> reporter: that gives you an insight into how the president is viewing all this. that's why you're seeing the president lash out the way he is on twitter, quoting people by saying he could lead a civil war like fracture. impeachment is likely coming our way, we need to be ready for this and they don't think the president is taking it seriously enough. they want the president to form a defense strategy they can latch on to and actually use and be something that's aggressive that actually works right now they don't feel like they found that and they're frustrated it's been since days almost and what we're being told by sources essentially is they feel like they're squandering this opportunity to shape the public message because the president himself is resisting their calls, their suggestions and ways that he can mount an aggressive strategy. >> so explain what we learned today about who was on that call on july 25th. >> yeah, this is interesting. we learned that the secretary of

state mike pompeo was on that call with president trump and the ukrainian president zelensky. that's something interesting because you've seen mike pompeo come out, say state department officials acted appropriately in his mind. just eight days ago he was asked about the president pushing the ukrainian president to investigate the bidens and he acted like he was caught off guard by it, said he hadn't seen the complaint from the whistle-blower yet, something he repeated a few days later. he was on the call, he heard the pressure push to investigate the bidens so he acted like he hadn't heard about it which is going to further entangle the secretary of state further than he already is. >> and on being prepared or to the with world leaders in the past, what is going on with that? >> reporter: despite aides

preparing a wealth of materials to get the president ready for these calls, he kind of goes into that unprepared. a lo the of it has t of that has free-wheeling style, and john kelly at times trying to mute the phone to say, hey, you should say this, you shouldn't say that. we're hearing from people saying this is how the president operates he doesn't feel like he needs the advice of those other staffers when he's on those cass with world leaders. >> appreciate it. a tweet late last night, the president invoking the civil war, "if the democrats are successful in removing the president from office, which they will never be, it will cause a civil war-like fracture from when our country will never heal. pastor jeffers, fox news.

>> colonel peters, when you see the president tweet about civil war, retweeting somebody else, misquoting them even, i'm wondering what your reaction is. >> one word, sedition. trump is inciting violence against the legitimate government of the united states and the constitutional order. and, anderson, that is a grave crime. you can argue about the meaning of treason, what constitutes it, what doesn't. sedition is very clear can uut. you can ask your lawyers. also i have to say there's not going to be a civil war. knock that off. i've been hearing people on the extreme sayiright saying it for years. >> and the president of the united states invoking the notion of a civil war if he is impeached or if he is not

re-elected or whatever the parameters he believes this might happen or this might break out, i mean, anybody who even not even going back in u.s. history in modern times has seen civil wars in countries around the world up close, there's no responsible leader who would ever kind of raise that, especially in a tweet, it's -- i mean, it is a horrific thing to witness, this countryman turning against countryman. >> indeed. he had the irony of a draft dodger talking up war. yes, there have been horrible civil wars. some are ongoing right now around the world and they are utterly horrible and very, very cruel. but trump is very much in the situation of a developing world dictator in that he's got to stay on the throne to stay out of prison or in many cases worse. and trump, he's afraid. he's a frootenightened, frighte

man. if he loses the election and it's not a forgone conclusion that he will but if he does, he'll face the rest of his life in courtrooms, perhaps in prison. >> the last time we spoke, you felt the founding fathers could never have imagined someone like president trump. do you have faith in their institutions to mete out justice, whatever that may be, however that justice is defined? >> i hope so. the republican party is a terrible disappointment to me. that was always the party of law and order, of the constitution, of patriotism and now with rare exception you see republicans on capitol hill cowhering, just cowhering, afraid of donald trump, this bloated old charleston who never served in any capacity and they're running to make excuses for him,

cringing. i know my views are strong on this. i love this country. i don't love it like druonald trump, whatever i can get. donald trump is an embarrassment that cannot be measured. >> with this president, it's always been said everything is transactional, relationships are transactional, clearly foreign policy is, and he, you know, he seems to extend what he did in real estate into the oval office. you know, ukraine, it's not a country that is an ally to the united states battling an aggressor to the united states russia and in need of aid, it's a young leader who may be able to bend to the will and come up with dirt on the bidens or on clinton or whoever. >> you're certainly right. it's trump is all about trump is all about trump. and i really feel sorry for the people who voted for him who convinced themselves this this

m -- that this man is a patriot. but i also have to say, trump supporters were abandoned by both parties. the republican party became the party of high finance and the democratic party the party of high society. where i come from in pennsylvania, people went utterly ignored. i'm sure trump has never red hagel, the german philosophy. all human beings want recognition. what trump did was give recognition to the people, the electorate, that have been ignored by both parties and i feel sorry for the people. now, i know a lot of trump voters who even now can't give up, can't admit they were wrong because their pride's caught up in it. so we're in for an interesting election year. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> a former diplomat weighs in

on the secretary of state and the news he is making tonight. and later an interview with elizabeth warren and a man you might not know too much about, her husband. did have

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♪ nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. ♪ . a source telling us secretary of state pompeo was on the phone call with ukraine's president two sundays ago. caitlyn collins says he gave an el elliptical answer. he said "you just gave me a report about an i.c. whistle-blower complaint, none of which i've seen. tonight we know he had knowledge of the call because he was on it. our guest is an outside adviser to the biden campaign. ambassador burns, when you hear the secretary of state was on phone call with the ukrainian president and president trump and has thus far kept quiet, i'm

wondering, is that appropriate? >> well, i think it's a little bit unusual, at least in my experience, anderson, for the secretary of state to be listening in on a presidential phone call. it's just too time consuming. there's lots of calls and usually the secretary can get an instant readout from the situation room or national staffer on the call. but i do think this, there's a crisis brewing in the state department. and secretary of state pompeo now needs to lead his men and women because of the firing of our american ambassador to ukraine on the july 25th phone call with president zelensky. the comments that donald trump jr. and rudy giuliani made to vilify our ambassador. and then the president's comments last week to the american diplomats at the u.s. mission to the u.n. when he said those people who helped the whistle-blower were spies and we know how to deal with spies.

i mean, it cascades down the ranks of the state department. i can tell you that morale has plummeted and i respect secretary pompeo in many ways. i disagree with him on the issues. it's time for him to stand up and protect the men and women of the state department from this vilification campaign being run out of the oval office against our career officers. it's shameful behavior and, anderson, there is no antecedent in american history when a president has done so much damage to our state department and our foreign service. >> is it appropriate for the secretary of state, who is the head of the state department, as you said, represents the men and women, the career foreign service officers and others who work for the state department who have knowledge of the president having this sort of off-the-books, you know, program with rudy giuliani going around in ukraine, trying to get the ukrainians to, you are know, investigate the bidens, investigate this phony

conspiracy theory that the president knew isn't true or at least had been told repeatedly there was no validity to it about the ukrainians being behind hacking and having the servers. i mean, is that appropriate that the secretary of state would have that knowledge given the fact that that runs counter to the instruments of government which he, himself, oversees? >> well, the secretary of state is the nation's chief diplomat. if rudy giuliani had effectively hijacked our apology towards union cra ukraine and taken it over and he's not even a government official, dealing with the ukrainian president and his staff on one issue, go after biden and his son, of course the secretary of state should have known about it and should have done something about it because it was wrong of both president trump and rudy giuliani it ask the president of ukraine to investigate a distinguished former vice president of the united states, the main

political rival of president trump. that was wrong. it was an abuse of the president's power and the secretary of state should have shut that down and should have taken over the real policy towards ukraine, which is to defend ukraine, at least to give it the $391 million worth of military assistance so they can fend off vladimir putin. that was the real american interest. the most surprising thing that came out of the phone call between the president and zelensky, the president never mentioned that, never mentioned the american interest, which was to contain putin. all the president cared about was his personal interest to go after joe biden. so of course the state department, the secretary of state, should have stepped in and stopped rudy giuliani. >> so when you hear defenders of the president say on television repeatedly the president has every right to be concerned about corruption in ukraine and he was talking about corruption in ukraine and there's nothing wrong with him pushing the president of ukraine on that, is there any explanation that

supports that? because from my understanding, there's probably a lot of like current acts of corruption that could be focused on. i'm sure the president has access to intelligence about ongoing corruption in a country like ukraine or anywhere else, but he's talking very specifically about his political opponent. >> it just doesn't hold water. this president has not been concerned with corruption in saudi arabia, mohammed bin salman or in turkey, pred erdogan, or in russia, president putin. he doesn't speak out against corruption. it's very clear and if you look at the lead "new york times" story in the sunday edition, it's just chapter and verse for the last nine months president trump and rudy giuliani have been interested in one thing, go after the bidens. do us a favor, said president trump to president zelensky, go after the bidens. that's not the american national interest. and if the president is singularly putting forward his own political interests for 2020, ahead of our national

interest, what's more important than containing russian power in eastern europe, then the president has abused the power of his office and rudy giuliani is his agent, this agent who is roaming throughout american foreign policy on that one question. it wasn't about corruption in ukraine, it was about going after the bidens. >> also, correct me if i'm wrong, secretary pompeo has sworn is an oath to the constitution. rudy giuliani, i don't know when the last time he put his hand on a bible and swore an oath to defend the united states, but he is representing the interests of donald trump, not the american interests. that's not an oath he has taken in this regard. >> i don't know if he has a security clearance, rudy giuliani. i don't think he should be the most active american citizen talking to the president of ukraine. president trump should be. and secretary pompeo should be. look, anderson, i think secretary pompeo is an honorable person. he has served his country well.

this is a decisive time for him as secretary of state in my judgment. there's only one thing he can do this week and next, stand up publicly and defend the nonpartisan role that our career diplomats have always played in our system and have to play and right now the trump administration is targeting the state department, reducing the -- trying to reduce the budget of the state department. as you know, just in the last 24 hours we've learned that 150 currently serving state department and retired officers are now being said that they were involved in security violations on the clinton e-mail problem going back to 2011, '12 and '13. if you're in the state department and you have all this incoming barrage from the president and the white house, i think you'd feel paranoid, too, that the commander in chief is not leading the men and women of the state department. that's what mike pompeo has to stand up against. >> ambassador nicholas burns, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you.

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a little something called instinct. been using it for years. yeah, that's what i'm afraid of. he knows exactly where we're going. my whole body is a compass. oh boy... the my account app makes today's xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing. one of fiercest defenders senator lindsey graham said nancy pelosi should have held a vote for an impeachment inquiry, suggesting she did not have the votes. it was basically politics, he said. >> we need a john hancock moment from house democrats. quick hiding behind nancy pelosi. if you think the president did

something wrong in this phone call, then vote to open up an article of impeachment inquiry and a lot of house democrats won't because they're afraid. >> graham also said he didn't see anything impeachable in the transcript. in 1999 seemed to be a little bit more concerned. he stormed the house floor in a video referred to last hour by my guest say people was a remedy to maintain the dignity of the office of the president. >> you don't if at any tieven h convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic because impeachment is not about punishment. impeachment is about cleansing the office. impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. >> joining us now is former trump campaign strategist and

political kp political commentator david urban. kaitlin, 20 years apart, the deference here is striking. >> there's a lot about lindsey graham i this we've watched in a very short period of time where he's flipped flopped all over the place on his views. on this issue in tickets complete hypocrisy and we've seen that across the board with the way the republicans talk about impeachment when it comes to actions of donald trump and the way they talked about impeachment with bill clinton. >> david, senator graham said this weekend also that he has zero problem with the president's july 25th phone call with the president of ukraine. i'm just wondering from your standpoint, do you have any problem with it? >> noand just let me make something clear, anderson. i worked in the senate with the impeachment of bill clinton. i thought it was a bad idea.

i worked for arlen specter, one of the more serious republicans. i thought it was an overreach then and i think it's an overreach now. listening to hakeem jeffries, who was on sunday with "state of the union" in advance of me. he said there are three things they're going to take the president down on, one, withholding the money from the u cranes, holding it hostage, two, intimidating the ukrainian president and, three, trying to cover it up. all three of those pillars of their inquiry fall flat. in the first instance the money was not being held hostage. it was legitimately being held up while debate was being held about the proper contribution to ukraine, the republicans senators will testify to that i blow when it comes time. there is some question as to legitimacy of the ukrainian president, was there corruption still going on. so that's all there. number two, was the ukrainian

president intimidated? you don't have to take anybody else's word but the ukrainian president. he said he felt no intestimoimi and he didn't know the money was being held in abeyance and, three, that this was somehow covered up. this was not covered up. it was stored in a secure place just like many other calls are in the normal course of business because of incredible leaks surrounding this president. all three of the pillars are going to fall flat. >> i mean, first of all, i don't think -- i mean, a code word level server is really not the place for noncode word level things. >> it is in this white house, anderson, when things leak. >> i don't know why things are leaking if the president hires the best people. >> i'm making a factual statement. things are stored in there in the normal course of business. >> i'm not sure the normal course of business of to hide --

they're hiding it in there. normal course of business is not all these leaks coming out. but you also said the ukrainian president isn't intimidated. i don't know how you get into his head and know what he actually thinks, but -- but i think you know plenty of people say things that are not true or say things if they're a politician that are not representative of their actual thoughts. if you're president of ukraine and you got to deal with president trump -- >> he's a reformer. >> he's a comedian, a president of a country desperate for u.s. aid. you think there is not an anville hanging over his head? >> i don't, anderson. >> all you have to do is read the transcript. >> okay. >> he's graveling, if you read it. he's graveling and pandering to trump. he's completely dependent on

this aid. you just have to read the transcript. it's not just i love you a hundred percent, it's a thousand percent. >> i think one of the problems -- >> just because you don't like this president doesn't mean you can impeach him. >> i even think comparing the clinton impeachment to this is very -- it's apples and oranges because that's great, david, that you were against it because it was ridiculous. you know, i mean, it really, truly was ridiculous -- it really, truly was about something that was private behavior that can be condemned. if you go back and look at the cnn poll that came out today about how people feel what the mole vag motivations are of democrats versus republicans, the majority in '88 think the republicans

were out to get clinton. that's now how people today. >> i don't like arguing about what all americans think because it's hard to know what all americans think. is it okay for a president of the united states to pressure a world leader to interfere in an upcoming election by going after his candidate, his leading opponent? >> so, number one, i think that elizabeth warren and kamala harris and the rest of the democrats who are running for president would take umbrage that joe biden is the main opponent. >> okay. >> i don't think that's what's occurred. i don't think that's what occurred. i think this president was asking for an -- for the ukrainians to go back and investigate what happened in the 2016 elections and, oh, by the way, a lot of questions remain out there about joe biden's son. >> still to come, as the white house debate their way forward in this controversy, we'll check

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the whistle-blower, the center of this new investigation is not the only person under attack by president trump. during his july call with the ukrainian president, the president also attacked his then

recently recalled ambassador there, and the ambassador is now scheduled to appear for a deposition before three house committees on wednesday. here with more, someone who not only knew the ambassador but resigned as a diplomat last year because he could no longer support president trump's policies, former u.s. ambassador to estonia, james melville. ambassador melville, why do you think the ambassador to ukraine was pushed out? >> it's almost a badge of honor for the ambassador to be pushed out. she was doing her job. she's one of the most successful foreign service officers that i knew of my whole career. the political and economic circumstances in ukraine are so

fraught now that it's a really hard job to do and do well and that's what the ambassador was doi doing. >> i assume it's made harder when there seems to be sort of a bifurcation between the president running his own foreign policy through rudy giuliani and the actual established levers of, you know, diplomatic representation in the embassy, which is what the ambassador does. you have an extraordinary careering career going back to 1986 in gdr. have you ever seen in your entire career anything like this operation that was going on in ukraine? >> never. never. but in a way it's sort of mirrors what's going on everywhere in a way this administration conducts its policy and governs, which is to divide. you know, whether it's foreign policy or the way we relate to each other as americans, for

some reason they see enflaming those divisions as being in their best interests. it doesn't surprise me this is the way they expect this is the way foreign policy should be conducted as well. >> it's interesting because you worked since 1986, you worked for democratic administrations, you worked for republican administrations. you were a career foreign service officer. it says a lot to me that you can work for republicans and you can work for democrats but this president you resigned. >> well, i resigned so that i could talk to you, anderson. the restrictions that are on an ambassador in terms of expressing their own opinion as a citizen are fundamental to the nonpartisan nature of the work of the foreign service and diplomacy. as long as i was an active duty foreign service officer, i was happy to live with those rules.

and it was my internal feeling that i could no longer square my conscience and my life with being the ambassador of the trump administration at that time that caused me to decide to retire. >> how difficult does having rudy giuliani skulking about ukraine, meeting with officials, what does that do to the diplomatic efforts in ukraine, to the foreign service officers, to people who are working in the embassy? i mean, it makes it more difficult i would imagine. >> oh, anderson, it makes it extremely difficult. it sews confusion, not only within the u.s. government and within the state department and the embassy and the embassy of course is a platform for all of the agencies of the u.s. government who have a presence overseas work through the

embassy and coordinate through the ambassador, but mr mr. giuliani, as far as i know, hasn't taken an oath to the constitution and is not in the chain of command of secretary pompeo or anyone else who's actually acting on behalf of the united states. mr. giuliani is the president's lawyer and is acting on behalf of donald trump as his client. and the possibility of conflicts of interest are self-evident. and it's probably why we're in this terrible situation. >> ambassador james melville, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you, anderson. >> more ahead, including an exclusive on elizabeth warren and her husband gave a rare joint interview. here's the thing about managing multiple clouds for your business. when you've got public clouds,

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senator elizabeth warren's campaign for the democratic presidential nomination has of course put her in the national spotlight, but her husband, bruce mann, has stayed away from that kind of attention until now. cnn's mj lee went to the couple's home in cambridge, massachusetts, for an exclusive interview. >> reporter: so let's talk about the two of you. this is your first joint interview of the campaign. >> it is. >> how did you two meet? >> in key biscayne. >> meet bruce mann, better known these days as elizabeth warren's husband. >> so 1979 you meet senator warren. what was she like? >> oh, the first -- let me set the scene because it's completely improbable. >> reporter: the two met when they were 29 years old attending a law conference in florida. warren had recently separated from her first husband, jim warren. >> as i approached the

reception, i looked across the lawn and from about, oh, i don't know, 25 yards away i saw elizabeth talking to a couple of people and the -- even from that distance, i was just drawn to her. i mean, she was so lively, so animated, so engaged. i just fell for her from 25 yards out before even meeting. >> reporter: love at first sight? >> for me. it took her a couple of days. >> i was much slower. that was a sunday late afternoon when we met. i wasn't completely in love with him until sometime mid-morning on monday. >> reporter: hmm. >> he was in the row ahead of me, down at the other end of the rove and it was on monday when i actually saw him in shorts. and good looking legs. and -- >> reporter: wow. >> that's when i was all in. >> that's right. she completely objectified me.

>> it's true. >> reporter: as the couple tells it, it was a while wind romance built on a shared love of the law and academia. just months after they first met, it is warren who popped the question. >> it was in the fall and i'd watched him teach a class, which i'd never done before. so i'm sitting in the back of the room while he's teaching, and when we were done, he'd taught a really good class, lots of interaction and he walks back in this big empty classroom, he looks down at me and he says, well, what did you think? i said great. will you marry me? and he said -- >> yes. >> yes. and that was it. that was it. >> that's right. >> i got to see him in one -- i got to see him in shorts, got to watch him play tennis, got to do all that when we were in miami for three weeks, and then got to

see him teach. but that's it. i'm marrying this one. you know, when you find a good one, grab him and hang on. >> reporter: warren is now one of the leading candidates for if she wins, her husband would be the first male presidential spouse in history. he says it's not a role he ever imagined himself playing. >> when you first met the senator, she was a republican. >> i don't think i knew that at the time. however conservative she might have been at the time, it was not particularly apparent, and we really didn't discuss politics. >> friends and colleagues describe mann as the quieter of the couple, devoted to his scholarship and even more devoted to his wife. he's been by warren's side as her political career has taken off rapidly, beginning with a senate campaign in 2012 and a presidential run announced on the last day of 2018. so that conversation between the

two of you where you decide, okay, we're going to do this, i'm going to run for president, what is that conversation like? >> i don't think of it as a single conversation. >> no, not really. not really. >> it was the bits and piece kind of thing that people who live together do. a piece here about what's happening in our country. a piece about a place we ought to be fighting back. and over time, now, i did have conversations with other people, real conversations that i told them i was going to have, and i wanted him to think about it, so i could get good advice. this is an important decision. >> and so the conversations she mentioned were asking people to give her three reasons why she should run, three reasons why she shouldn't. and she saved me for last, and so finally she asked me for three reasons pro and con, and i said, no, i'm not going to do it. and i said, you're going to run

anyways, so it just doesn't matter because if you don't run and democrats lose, you'll feel guilty because that means there will be no one to fight for the people and the issues that you care about. >> it just became clearer and clearer. >> yeah. >> that, you're right, i couldn't not do it. >> reporter: so we fast-forward ten months. >> yep. >> reporter: you know that your wife has been leading the polls lately. as the person who knows her best, why do you think she's leading the polls right now? >> because she's the best person to do the job. >> i'm glad you feel that way. >> i do. i do. i do. it's an entirely unbiased opinion. >> that's right. >> absolutely. the -- >> and you remember we don't do polls. >> that's right. we do not do polls. >> reporter: if she does become the nominee, she will go up against president trump.

are you ready for that? >> me? i'm not sure how anyone trains for it. you just jump into the deep end, and you swim. >> reporter: do the two of you talk yet about what life could be like at the white house? >> no. >> no. >> uh-uh. >> nope. nope. no. it's a bit early. >> reporter: as his wife is running for president, mann is continuing to teach at harvard law school. he has spent limited time on the campaign trail so far but says he already has one of the most important jobs on the warren campaign. >> my principal role has been as bailey's handler. >> that's right. >> i help bailey manage his photo lines. >> reporter: the couple's 16-month-old gold jen retrieve as developed a following of his own. what are you doing to try to keep any sense of normalcy when you're home. >> bailey. no, he is. we try to get out to fresh pond, and if it's a really good day,

we actually do doubles at fresh pond. that means we go early in the morning and again just before it's dark if we can make that work in the schedule. >> right. >> reporter: is there anything you could tell us about the senator that we don't know about? >> oh, probably there's a lot. wait just a minute. >> that's right. >> reporter: just something the average person wouldn't know about senator warren. >> oh, gosh. >> reporter: oh, my goodness. >> oh, to the rescue. to the rescue. >> reporter: bailey is also the reason for mann's recent visit to the emergency room. >> he was playing with another dog until the play stopped, and the other dog attacked him. bailey was handling himself fine, but nonetheless i waded in, and my hand caught on his harness and broke a bone. >> reporter: warren and her husband both used the same word to describe the campaign. the day that you announced your campaign, it was new year's eve. >> yes. >> reporter: you had a press conference right outside this

house. >> right outside. >> reporter: with bailey. at the very end, i think a reporter turned to you, asked for a comment. and you said, we've been married a long time, and it's always been an adventure, so this is just another one. how is that adventure going? >> really extraordinarily well, and it's even more of an adventure. back then i had no idea what it would look like, only that we would do it. and so every part of it remains an adventure. so i stand by that statement. >> reporter: senator? >> i can do this adventure because we do it together. it's true. >> that was mj lee reporting. we'll be right back. sfx: record scratch music (plays throughout): [ 'watch me walk' by spencer ludwig ] yo dj, can i put in a request?

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don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. thank you so much for joining us, everyone. our breaking news tonight is simply stunning. the president is absolutely freaking out right now, all over the breaking news, involving some of the top people on team trump. there is rudy giuliani, of course, his personal attorney, subpoenaed by the chairs of the house intel, foreign affairs, and oversight committees for records on his pressure campaign to get ukraine to dig up dirt on the president's perceived enemies. and since nobody in the white house seems to have any control over what giuliani says, fasten your seat belts. that's happening as the president suggested today that he thinks one of those chairmen, intel chairman adam schiff, should be arrested for treason. so he thinks the chairman of the committee taking the lead on the impeachment investigation is a tr