on it. i would say within the next weeks to months, kate. >> couldn't happen fast enough when you look at what you're dealing with. thank you, sanjay. amazing work. thank you, everyone, for joining me for another rocking day. "inside politics" with john king starts right now. thank you, kate, and welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing this important day with us. we begin the hour with the trump administration, pushing back forcefully and defiantly against the house impeachment inquiry. the secretary of state mike pompeo tweeting a while ago to the foreign affairs committee. he said it's not feasible to depose state department officials. here's a quote from that letter. i'm concerned with aspects of your request that can be understood only as an attempt to intimidate, bully and treat improperly departments of state,

including several career officers. he said, let me be clear. i will not tolerate such tactics and i will use all means at my disposal to attempt to expose any attempts to intimidate the dedicated professionals whom i am proud to lead and serve alongside at the department of state. this pushback included a handful of state department workers. and as the democrats made clear, they want to know more, much more, about pompeo himself. we now know, for example, the secretary was on that july 25th phone call between president trump and the ukranian president, making pompeo now a central player as democrats allege the president used government resources as part of an effort to get ukraine help to discredit joe biden. we should note the secretary currently in rome meeting with top italian officials. here to report on this breaking news, kylie irving and manu

raju. this is the secretary of state telling congress, no, go away. >> reporter: yeah, this is secretary of state who is one of the closest members of trump's cabinet to the president. it is very noteworthy that he's come out with this letter and he posed the letter on twitter at the same time the letter went to the committees on the hill. that is something the state department has often complained the hill has done to them. nevertheless, he's going forth and making this statement saying, essentially, it is not feasible for the state department employees who have been disposed by these committees to go forth and be disposed in the amount of time that the committees have given them. that's over the next two weeks that these were scheduled. and there is a number of legal and procedural reasons that he lays out in this letter to the hill. he says, first of all, the legal authority here is questionable, because these officials who are being deposed, they weren't subpoenaed, so it would be

voluntary for them to show up. so he's questioning that. secretary pompeo is also saying they were given an inadequate amount of time to prepare here. if they were to go forward and talk, he said they weren't given enough time to go over what they would be discussing. and the third thing he says is that they have been prevented, these state department officials, from going into these depositions with counsel. and he also says they've been asked for documents that are personal documents, and those are the same documents that have been subpoenaed to the state department. so there is a number of questions and frustration that he lays out here, not the least of which he says state department employees are being bullied by this action taken by the hill. >> the use of that language tells you this is the first step in what appears just a quick, flat out no, defiant position from the administration on cooperating what the democrats say is an impeachment inquiry. kylie, i appreciate the

reporting. manu on capitol hill, you've been reporting for days. the democrats say they're not going to stand for it this time. if what they view is obstruction, they're not going to leave it to the court, they're not going to leave it to the lawyers. do they take a median step here and actually issue subpoenas and see how the secretary responds then? >> reporter: we're waiting for an official response from the committees. they have yet to respond to this request. you're absolutely right, john, democrats are signalling they're not going to put up with the tractive fight that may play out. they may hold pompeo in contempt, something they've threatened to do, along with other officials. the fear is that dem contracts will once again get drawn out into a fight that the judiciary committee dealt with with this administration after issuing subpoenas and them saying, no, we're not going to comply with these subpoenas, and then having to send the issue to court.

we've seen what happened with those lawsuits with don mcgahn. they're still sitting in court. that's a problem for the democrats who want to move forward with this impeachment probe. if what they view is obstruction to the subpoenas, they'll use it as obstruction of congress. they're saying we'll do essentially the same thing here. we'll see what the democrats' next step is, but at moment, john, they say they're not going to put up with it as they try to wrap up this impeachment inquiry in the next few weeks, john. >> you won't put up with it, but how do you get rid of the blocks if you can't interview the people you need to? with me to share their reporting, cnn's nia-malika henderson, john with the "new york times," also legal analyst

shannon. the democrats call this an impeachment inquiry. the white house says they have a standing. the democrats don't want to drag this out in court. do they have a point where they can say, no, you have to come answer questions. >> they can say that, but the difficulty is what legal path. legal paths usually end up in court. i do think a point manu just raised, they could get the people on record as refusing and then make that, in and of itself, evidence of obstruction which would be the basis for another article of impeachment. >> it would be an article of impeachment, but as we bring it into the room, there is a handful of people they want to interview. of course, they want to get secretary pompeo in the end, the democrats do. if they don't get to interview him, they at least want documents. he was on that july 25th call. they want to know whether he was the one to decide to put it in

the top secret server in recordkeeping. most of the those other people around the country, we don't know their names. it's the ambassador of ukraine, it's the special envoy to ukraine, kurt volker. they were seeking meetings with ukraine to get dirt on joe biden and make a case of abuse of power. rudy giuliani helped set up meetings, who the democrats believe raised concerns about the meeting. without them, how do you build your case? on one hand, you can say, we're not going to stand for obstruction, and how do you convince the american people there is "there" there. >> you're looking for timing and you're looking for emotion. you want to know when did you become aware of the efforts of a

biden investigation? who was aware of it? if you can't bring them in for a deposition, you have to investigate them publicly. this is a turning point in all of this, because it shows a couple things. there is a lot of second guessing in the white house whether turning over that transcript was the right thing to do. a lot of concern about the shift in public opinion, even if it's not reflected yet in the senate republican numbers. pompeo himself is now on the hot seat and this foreshadows the white house policy. they know democrats want to get to this as quickly as possible. get out of the iowa caucuses. this is a way to prevent them from doing that. they know they can get democrats fuddled up in the process, talk about who is blocking who with documents. which is not what this is about, which is what is the president doing and what do the people

around them that are supposed to administer foreign policy feel about it? >> the administration said no to congress when congress asked if wednesday comes after tuesday, congress refused to life. it didn't come with a presidential tweet, so we don't think it's a big deal. they said, go away, you're not going to get to my people. the timing is critical, because wednesday, tomorrow, marie yovanovitch was supposed to be deposed. and rudy giuliani, he's not a government employee anymore, would he go for this? the administration is saying, you played your card, we'll play

ours. >> i talked to folks on the hill yesterday, and they're wondering if volker will come because he doesn't work for the administration anymore. and the i.g. is supposed to testify behind closed doors on friday, so the question for democrats right now is between those two things, if pompeo continues to block all these other officials and the documents, do they have enough to build an abuse of power case or not? >> shannon, back to you. what is the standing on this offense? would the democrats have more of a standing in court if there were articles of impeachment on the table, or just the fact they call this an impeachment inquiry? my point is do they have any standing to get a quick decision? or if they go to court are we looking at weeks and weeks and weeks and so on that we have with don mcgahn that's taking a couple months? >> i think they have standing, period. how quick it is is where they choose to stand. i think they're on firmer

foundation if they actually do articles of impeachment. certainly as a condition precedent, they need to ushissu subpoenas. they can go to court quickly to issue subpoenas, but they have to get it on track. the court may move along quick quickly. >> i just want to make a point of the building blocks of the case here, the handful of lower level state department officials are critical of this issue. what did giuliani do? who helped him in the government? what did they know about it? were they nervous about it? did they object to it? is that why the ambassador, for example, was recalled? then the democrats want to take this higher, to the box. mike pompeo, who we now know was on that phone call, again, when the president said, hey, do me a favor, to ukraine, after delivering the question of military aid. secretary pompeo was not compelled, but as this whistleblower came out, he could

have said, hey, i was on that call, instead he chose this. >> what do you know about those conversations? >> you just gave me a report, none of which i've seen. >> technically true but not totally honest. >> not good government, not responsive. >> that's fair to say. in terms of the documents, the trump family has turned over two important documents in the last week, so there is some precedent under pressure that they'll turn over documents. i think the reality is they're going to fight every subpoena and try to keep their people off the hill. but when you've got kurt volker, and we had the former ambassador to the ukraine, these are not trump employees, these are career diplomats. so what would stop them from being on the sort of back nine of their career showing up to testify? >> and are there more people like those folks, not only in

the state department? there are other people named in this, the white house officials, the half a dozen or so that cooperated or gave information to this whistleblower. so we don't know. pompeo is obviously trying to chill those folks and sort of bully them in some ways in saying, you know, this is going to be uncomfortable for you if you cooperate. the other thing that republicans seem to be doing in addition to focusing on the process and sort of bogging democrats down with that, they also seem to be trying to push democrats to actually take a vote, right? to put that in that uncomfortable position. do they really have the 218 votes to go forth to really formalize this thing. the initial thinking was, well, they kind of formalized it with the impeachment inquiry, but does the actual vote formalize it any more and put democrats in an uncomfortable position? >> i didn't think they could do this for this reason, that you have an impeachment inquiry to

try to compel more documents and a political standing to say, we're doing this investigation and we're asking for these documents. politically, you would get by with a big group and so folks on the gop side. why? if it was an impeachment investigation, there would be people forced to say, are you for the investigation or not? they would be on the record, right? pelosi would have some buy-in on the other side of the aisle. people like that would have given her at least patina bipartisanship, and they could say you're stonewaulling a bipartisan inquiry that just got bigger. when we come back, the latest developments on an impeachment inquiry and what you at home, the public, thinks about this confrontation. with our highest concentration of hyaluronic acid. visibly plumps skin and reduces wrinkles. bounce back!

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mike pompeo sending a defiant letter accusing congress of trying to bully state department employees. the democrats say they want cooperation from a handful of staffers and state department officials to find out what giuliani was up to. if you listen to the president's phone call with the president of ukraine, and you go back a couple months knowing giuliani was already meeting with ukranians trying to get dirt on joe biden, democrats want to piece this together to see if there was abuse of power. rudy giuliani saying, i did nothing wrong. >> i'm weighing the alternatives. i'll get all the evidence together. i gathered all this evidence before the mueller probe ended, so it was clearly under my responsibility as the lawyer for the president of the united states. >> welthe final meeting the ukranians asked for, the investigation was over. >> there is a couple interesting things there.

that was trumpaganda in full swing last night on the hannity program. a couple things. i gathered this stuff before the mueller report was over. he's trying to get himself a privilege there. i did this in the context of being the president's attorney, therefore it is privileged. that's one thing he's trying to do to protect him from having to testify about it, anyway. the second part is what democrats want to get, volker, yavanovitch. was rudy giuliani using the leverage saying the president supports my effort. the administration saying you're not going to get your testimony. >> and democrats are wondering, how much is rudy giuliani going to participate? senior leaders would not like him to testify. i think he wants to testify but it would end up being a circus like corwin lewandowski a couple

weeks ago. but they want to feel the pressure from him and that he wants to turn over things. he said last night, i was the attorney, privilege and things like that. and later he says he acted as a friend of trump. so democrats have a legal mark to make that it's not privileged and he has to turn these things over. >> if you have no doubt, the subpoena asks for certain documents. they say no, saying we're trying to bully them around. that's to keep republicans in their corner. this from our team at the white house. the president talks about performing an impeachment response team, raging that talk of bringing former aides back to help him projected weakness. he has privately declared he

doesn't need any more lawyers, even though several people have privately told him that his personal attorney, rudy yule jewe -- giuliani, isn't helping him. people he's hired or people he's paying, cooperating with investigators, he doesn't want that. the problem is, can they sustain that? >> if you think about the mueller report, it was sto stonewalling at every turn, claiming privilege for folks who didn't claim privilege. i think they thought the veneer of this impeachment would cooperate. if you're in the white house, you think the cooperation you've had so far by releasing the transcript already brought you tons of trouble. also, the president has said, listen, there was nothing wrong with that call. it was a perfect call.

this is an illegitimate investigation. so we'll see. i think over the past couple days before today, it was unclear what their strategy was. you heard all the folks on the sunday shows, rudy giuliani with his sort of affidavits and conspiracy theories, but today i think it's certainly much clearer. >> it's confused in spin. we haven't had a substantive pushback about the phone call. >> he doesn't want one. >> take a breath. one of the current players here is the president of ukraine. the man on the other end of that phone call, he's having a news conference back home now. c clarissa ward is there, including the man we were just talking about, rudy giuliani. in just a minute. (sound of can hitting bag and bowl) (clapping) always there in crunch time.

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breaking news just in to cnn. ukraine, of course, central to the impeachment inquiry here in washington. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelensky, spoke to clarissa ward. she is there. what new information did we learn, clarissa? >> reporter: the subject of this conference, john, was not supposed to be about president trump and the now infamous phone call between him and president zelensky, but there were a couple reporters in the room, and we began by asking him the

sa salient questions. i asked him if he felt any pressure on investigating the bidens and freezing that military aid to ukraine. he said, i'd like to tell you i never felt pressure. i have lots of people who want to put pressure on me here and abroad, but i am independent ukraine, and my actions suggest that no one can put pressure on me. he also answered another question about whether he had had any contact with the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, to which he answered, i have never met giuliani, i have never spoken to giuliani on the phone. in another question he was asked again about the issue of military aid to which he said ukraine was apparently unconcerned about the freezing of that military aid because, he said, we are a strong country. that, one can assume, to be a bit of bravado for the sake of national pride. but clearly, john, what you're seeing here is a president who

is going to great pains to really underscore the idea that ukraine is independent, autonomous and will not get involved with domestic u.s. politics. they cannot be seen to be weighing in on either side, because anyone could win 2020 election, and this president knows that ukraine is incredibly dependent on aid from the u.s. as it continues to fight a war on its eastern flank with russia, john. >> clarissa ward, great to have you live in kiev for this important reporting. you have the pressure saying, no one can pressure me, no one can get me to do things, but at the same time, as clarissa points out, they are incredibly dependent on the united states right now, in terms of support with putin invading their country, but morally, we've got

your back. this brings you back to the idea that what secretary pompeo did today is so critical, in the sense that the people who can tell you who did rudy giuliani meet with, were you in the room, what did he tell them, what did they ask you after. did they come to you nervous? should we do what he says. is that policy or is that guy freelancing for the president of the united states? those are the witnesses pompeo told congress, go away, i will not let them testify. >> this makes pompeo a really critical player and speculation about why did he leave when he left? was it because he couldn't be an effective envoy or did he want to answer questions if he were asked. people would be interesting if they would go before the committees and collaborate behind closed doors. dan coats, jim bolton, h.r.

mcmaster, we could go on. you don't have to be a genius to see where this is going. the committees have to figure out, do they want to call everybody? is it going to look like a circus? how methodical do they want to be? if their hand is forced on this, they have other people they can go to. >> the biggest factor in the story is the coming facts that we don't know yet. there are known unknowns and there are unknown knowns, the latter which is key here. the names you just mentioned, i'm not saying they are folks who would leak information, but there is a large group of people who are former aides that are not happy campers right now and current people in the white house and the bureaucracy who

don't like trump's conduct and will be emboldened by his weakness, see opportunity to damage him further and put out information that will further reveal his misdeeds when it comes to foreign policy and his own plig intereolitical interes. you mentioned people inside who are not anonymous and have information that canning very dama -- can be very damaging. >> how about we have a moment where we tell the truth, and then find out where it ends up. clarissa said military aid did not come up in the call. if it's the july 25th phone call, he says we're ready to buy more javelins. the president says, i would like you to do us a favor, though. the rules were changed so

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welcome back. the intelligence community inspector general is pushing back against a big argument being advanced by the president and his allies. in an extraordinary move, the icig released a rare public statement yesterday making two important points clear. first, that the whistleblower did, in fact, have firsthand knowledge of some of the events detailed in the whistleblower complaint. and secondly, that the whistleblower used the same form the inspector general has had in place since 2018. both points matter, and here's why. the president and his allies from the beginning have suggested the whistleblower had no direct knowledge of the key facts. the inspector general says that's just not true. at a prominent conservative website published this story friday that was later retweeted by the president claiming that somehow the whistleblower rules were changed just before the ukraine complaint. the inspector general's statement making clear that notion was the actual fake news in this conversation. let's bring it in the room. again, a trump appointee getting

in the president's grille, essentially, my wording, not the i.g.'s, saying, you're misleading the american people, sir. especially the idea that the rules were changed has been all over. a conservative twitter verse and fox news. okay. if you saw a crime and it was in precinct a and you filed the report in precinct b, does it make it any less of a crime? that's where they are. >> that's not even true. >> the crime here deciding whether or not there was anything illegal, this is what they don't want to talk about, right? those inconvenient facts the president is asking the leader of a foreign country to interfere in an election involving him. you see republicans, you have them on air here on various channels, you give that direct question to them and they spin and they go in all sorts of different directions. they want to talk about obama, they want to talk about the

whistleblower, and that's why you see this president talking about everything else. i think this was a federalist report and immediately fact checked not only by the press but in this case also by the i.g. >> to that point, if you're a trump supporter, open-minded, skeptical about impeachment, you saw this powerful argument being made by the president's defenders. >> why did they pick this whistleblower complaint to tell the story? the report does not match the complaint. why would they say you could use hearsay when you could not weeks before the complaint. i think this thing stinks. >> the president had no firsthand knowledge. he heard something from someone who may have heard something from someone -- >> no, his sources were firsthand sources. >> but he has no firsthand knowledge. >> he is giving them hearsay evidence. the thing is filled with "i don't know," "i heard," "i

overheard." there is not a single time when he said, "i know." >> none of that is true. none of it is supported by facts. chuck grassley, senator of the judiciary committee -- used to be the judiciary committee, it's the finance committee now -- issued a statement saying the person appeared to be following the protection laws. when someone is being called a whistleblower, the distinctions being drawn between first and secondhand knowledge are not legal ones. like i said last week, impeachment and facts don't weigh credibly. a prominent republican essentially saying you're way out of your league. i raise this because there is a history of this, yesterday chuck grassley was home in iowa

getting hernia surgery. a statement came out in his name and two other republican senators essentially making the argument chuck grassley says today don't listen to. this is asking if you changed the rules. senator grassley must have come out of surgery and decided to correct his staff here. >> all of these are side issues. does the whistleblower have the right to make the complaint? of course the whistleblower has the right to make the complaint. >> a side issue, but a prominent senator saying back off. listen to this person and respect this person. >> it's grassley saying, hey, cool it. this person had a right to do what they did and we have an obligation to listen to this even if we are not of the mind that impeachment is the next good course of action. we talk about giuliani. he's irresistible to watch, it's irresistible to watch what he's

saying. but it's the president's actions in the end. the president is trying to out the whistleblower. the president is trying to force the identity of someone who has the right to not come forward and have their identity revealed. >> another norm being busted before your eyes. >> before we go to break, happy birthday. jimmy carter is turning 95 today. he now has bragging rights to the oldest living president. happy birthday, sir. new pasta and grill combos starting at $9.99. only at applebee's.

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turning now to a separate piece of important reporting, this one that looks backwards. sources telling cnn president trump recently pressed australia's prime minister to help ag barr investigate or engines of mueller's russia probe. it's a different call, not the one in july. p what? >> people might be confused about this, but you explained it correctly, the fact that this is a backwards-looking investigation. this is something we know barr has very close to his heart. he believes, even before he became attorney general, he believes there was some reason for skepticism on the origins of

this investigation, so that's what he's doing. he's doing a review of some of the intelligence that came in, and some of it, we know, came from foreign countries, including australia that gave one of the first tips that got this investigation started. we know the british government, we know the dutch government also sent over information that became part of this investigation. so the question bill barr is asking, and he has john durham, a prosecutor in connecticut, leading this effort. was everything done properly? were there any shortcuts taken? those are the things they're exploring and that investigation is still very, very early in its process. that's one reason why barr is pushing governments, when he goes overseas, to cooperate with this investigation. again, it's completely different from the allegation that the president on his call with the ukranian president was asking essentially for help, getting dirt on his prospective 2020 opponent, possibly joe biden. >> interesting to watch.

i'm going to keep it in mind. democratic presidential hopeful elizabeth warren and her husband bruce sharing the story of how they met. >> he was in the rhow ahead of e down at the other end of the row. it was monday when i actually saw him in shorts. good-looking legs. that's when i was all in. >> that's right. she completely ejectified me. in customer satisfaction with interior paints. great paint, new low price. starting at $29.98. exclusively at the home depot.

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welcome to october, and this being october 1st means we're getting a look at the candida s candidates' fundraising numbers. the bernie sanders campaign hauled in an impressive $25 million. buttigieg took in $19 million in the third quarter. cory booker, $6 million in the third quarter. some thohold it as a surprise, if they're disappointing numbers, they wait to put it out there. what are we seeing here? >> the rival campaigns say bernie sanders is really strong in iowa. that may be a place he's able to make his stand.

you got 19 million pete buttigieg, 25 million bernie sanders. you're in this for the long haul. >> in the sense that if you look at the polling right now, war n warren/biden top of the state, bernie sanders is trying to find a place to win as of today. i know you need to win at some point, but he's not going anywhere. >> let me just challenge the he's staying put. of course he's staying put. fine, if warren wins the first three states, bernie can stay as long as he wants but he's not going to be a factor in the race if she is winning state after state. >> if that doesn't happen, he is positioned to be in a marathon. >> and to be positioned to slide. he's always been biden's understudy including that group of folks that says if biden doesn't do it, then i'll vote

for bernie sanders. >> where does the impeachment thing go? i'm going to take a long look at this thing. if i have to borrow some money i'll stay in so if biden falls -- >> he can go in. >> i think this debate is kind of a make or break moment for her. if she doesn't come out punching, where does she go. she had to hire leadership coaches. >> biden has pulled back dramatically. he was spending a lot. not getting a return for it, not getting support? >> i think he wasn't getting a return for it online. for kamala, i think her campaign is in a place where if she doesn't move here pretty soon, she's going to have financial problems. also she's a senator from the largest state in the country,

she's pretty young. she needs to figure out what's good for her long term. i think that question looms for her pretty soon. >> the big event. brianna keilar starts right now. have a great afternoon. john, thank you. i'm brianna keilar live from cnn's washington headquarters. underway right now, one warned that trump would be an authoritari authoritarian. another called him a xenophobic bigot, and now they're riding an impeachment war. america's top cop looking to fuel some of the president's biggest conspiracies. plus, rudy giuliani has said he's not always acting as the president's lawyer, so is he entitled to attorney