tv CNN Newsroom Live CNN October 8, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PDT
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opponent in exchange for military aid that congress approved. it's shocking, it's wrong, it's illegal and the president has to be held accountable. >> it's always a pleasure. thank you. we appreciate your time. >> thank you for watching. our live coverage continues with the "white house in crisis: the impeachment inquiry." with laura coates. what are you looking at? >> i'm processing so much. cuomo's interview with the jay sekulow. the lawyer. he tried to make the case the president doesn't have to turn over taxes because it's not required in the constitution. but of course that argument is hollow. i'll walk through exactly why a little bit later in the show. and it's a time we can't miss a minute here. >> the information is out there. at least by the law. you know the law way better than i do. what is the purpose of someone like a sekulow coming on tv? is it just spin. >> you wonder if it's part spin
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and trying to craft the narrative. remember impeachment inquiry here the public has to go along with it. they have to be on one side or the other. in favor or against. a lot of people are in the middle trying to figure out what they believe. his job is say hold on let's put it into perspective. the context that helps my client. remember, that whole phrase the audience of one, a beneficiary of one when it comes to the nation and president united states can't cut it in democracy. who sekulow is speaking to what cases need to be made and what the american people need to know to make up their minds. >> i'll be watching. >> thanks. let's get to it. this is a cnn special hour the "white house in crisis: the impeachment inquiry." i'm laura coates. tonight we'll dig deep into
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every angle of this fast moving impeachment investigation. headlines include a new and extraordinary effort to protect the ukraine whistleblower. the democrats expanding the inquiry with subpoenas for officials at the pentagon. and the office of management and budget. and we'll preview tomorrow's star witness. ambassador to the eu. a million dollar trump donor who by the way is set to testify before not one, not two but three committees. in the morning. first, president trump as usual was playing busy playing defense at the white house. cnn takes us through the biggest developments of the day. >> you can't impeachment a president for doing a great job. >> trump kicks off the week under pressure from an impeachment inquiry. and raging at the democrats. but he says he's thriving. >> what they did to the country is unthinkable. and it's lucky that i'm the president.
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because i guess i don't know what a lot of people said few people can handle it. i thrive on it. >> reporter: he claims he's thriving. house intelligence committee is taking extreme measures to protect the whistleblower from a president itching to learn his identity. >> this country has to find out who the person was. that person is a spy in my opinion. >> there are growing concerns about the whistleblowers safety. it's unclear when the whistleblower might talk to law makers a committee is considering using an off site location. limiting members present. or disguising their image or voice. another crack in the force field around the president. ohio senator took a measured approach. criticizing his call. he shouldn't have raised the biden issue on the call. period. it's not appropriate for a president to engage a foreign. government in an investigation of a political opponent.
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but i don't view it as impeachable. that held up bert than house minority leader. >> he's not saying china investigate. >> who missed trump saying this four days ago. >> like wise china should start an investigation. into the bidens. because what happened in china is just about as bad as what happened with ukraine. >> as for the actual impeachment investigation the house committee fired off new subpoenas to the pentagon and office of management and budget. democrats seeking more information about the decision to freeze aid to ukraine at the same time trump and rudy giuliani were pushing for investigations into the biden family. house democrats threaten to subpoena three associates of giuliani after they missed a deadline to provide documents. two of them, ukrainian american businessman and his business partner responded by attorney. the same john doud who
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represented president trump. he said a response would take time. >> request for documents and communication is overly broad. this in combination with requiring immediate responses leads me to the conclusion that the democratic committee members is harass, intimidate and embarrass my clients. >> joining me now. gordon the u.s. ambassador to european union is going to testify tomorrow in front of three committees. house, intelligence, foreign affairs and oversight. we all saw his name pop up in the damming texts. why is he so significant? he's going to have the attention of three congressional committees tomorrow. >> that's right. he'll be interesting for a number of reasons. he was heavily involved in the run up of the call between president trump and the ukrainian president. trying to get it off the ground at a time when ukraine was pressing for face to face meeting with trump and he was
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holding back the meeting in exchange for investigation. he knows about what that quid pro quo looks like behind the scenes. certainly more that what we have seen in the texts. also when you see the texts play out you can see him discussing with others who are concerned there's another quid pro quo going on. concern the president is with holding this military aid. in exchange for the investigations. and you really begin to see gordon's tone change. we know a couple things happened during the course of the text messages. we know from "wall street journal" he had a conversation with republican senator johnson. he told ron johnson the president is holding up ukraine military aid in exchange for investigations. the president talks to johnson and says no that's not what's going on. and all of a sudden in texts with other diplomats he's saying absolutely not. the president has been clear, no quid pro quo. if i'm a member of the committee i want to know what gave him the impression when he talked to
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johnson. who got to him, what changed his view of the situation in the couple days. certainly there's a lot to be gained from the testimony tomorrow. >> of course answering that question. why say call me. >> why don't you want a record. >> let's unravel this with two of the smartest guys i know. cnn chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin and david gregory. he paid me to say that about him. his testimony tomorrow will be of really big moment in this inquiry. his name is all over those text messages. let me read one. bill taylor as i said on the phone i think it's crazy to with hold security assistance for help with the political campaign. gordon responds bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions.
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he has been crystal clear, no quid pro quo of any kind. the president is trying to evaluate whether ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms president zelensky promised during his campaign. i have to ask you, what is the significance of that exchange and how important -- by the way it sounds sanitized. >> that doesn't read like a text. it reads like the back of your credit card bill. it's very carefully stated. and it comes after more informal conversations several days earlier where they are talking about where wilson the diplomat is saying what is this quid pro quo. why is this a good way to conduct foreign policy. then says call me. to end the recorded part of the exchange. and then after something happens, and we don't know.
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>> hours go by. >> between the why are we doing this, quid pro quo. he says there was no quid pro quo in that very stylized formal e-mail. which doesn't sound like any other e-mail. one of the questions the congressman want to ask tomorrow is what made you write that e-mail and did you have help. what prompted you to write in such a different style than previous. >> everyone i know says quid pro quo in every sentence they have said to a friend by text messages. it took him five hours to answer the text. when he finally did, talking about it sound sanitized and scrubbed. is it still damming? now that he's essentially cleaned up the earlier exchange. >> i think it is. because you have two camps here. those who are inside the tent and outside. those outside are professional diplomats with real experience in international affairs.
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he doesn't have that. he's a wealthy guy in the hotel business. who gave money to trump. despite earlier reservations and becomes ambassador to eu. there are people who are ambassadors who have no experience. he has none. what he's doing is carrying the president's brief. saying there's no quid pro quo. he's also been involved in what is this shadow agenda here by the president and rudy giuliani. when they say corruption, they mean joe biden. when it comes to ukraine. everybody else has to get on board. i think what's so telling. i wonder how helpful he'll be in questioning by members of congress. what is so telling you have the likes of bill taylor saying this is bad. this stinks. it's bad policy. and that he cuts it off. taylor knows enough to make a record. even though they're texting. we should point out in the post hillary clinton world.
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more people are texting. he knew enough to make a record here and he wants to cut that short. that is telling. that is where i think the investigation focus. >> we want to hear from bill taylor. if he did that with the intention of a record. what does that say? >> you want to hear from taylor. he's one of the professionals who is horrified by the idea of using american foreign policy to gather political dirt. what all of these investigations are trying to do is establish a chronology of what happened. particularly with regard to this money. the money that congress appropriated. and for reasons that remain mysterious does not get to ukraine for quite sometime. and there are exchanges that suggest strongly the reason it doesn't go to the ukrainians is because they hadn't come across with the political dirt yet.
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american taxpayer dollars in return for dirt on joe biden. that's certainly the way this looks. but the democrats on the committee need to establish a chronology with the text messages and e-mails and starting tomorrow the testimony. >> stick around. we have more to discuss. i want to hear from you. coming up i'll make my case about what might be today's most important development. it happened 200 miles away from washington. when we started our business
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now this decision could finally clear the way for all of us to see whatever trump is hiding in his tax returns. because today judge ruled that trumps tax returns can be turned over to a new york state grand jury. and he dismissed the president's claim the occupant of the white house enjoys absolute immunity from criminal process of any kind. the judge called that claim an overreach of executive power and quote repugnant to the nations governmental structure and constitutional values. the manhattan district attorney wants to know if trump or his company falsified business records in connection with with the hush money payments made during the 2016 presidential campaign to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. both allege affairs with trump who denied the allegations. trumps former attorney michael cohen admits paying some hush
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money on his behalf. he's serving time in federal prison after pleading guilty in case concerning the very payments. attorney for the president immediately appealed today's ruling. and trump and his lawyers have one main argument. the president of the united states is untouchable. as long as he has on the ruby slippers of the presidency the so called wicked witch hunts of the justice system can't touch him. that's called above the law. the president's team is clinging to justice department guidelines. and i stress the word guidelines. which say a sitting president cannot be indicted. can't be criminally prosecuted. here's where the judges ruling could have far reaching implications. remember that old guideline that says you can't indict a sitting president? how often did you hear that? after today that guideline maybe all bark and no bite. here's a key part of the opinion.
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it reads the court rejects the doj memos position. it concludes that better calibrated alternatives to absolute presidential immunity exist. yielding a more appropriate balance between on the one hand the burden that subjecting the president to criminal proceedings would impose on his ability to perform duties and the need to promote the courts legitimate interests and -- he functions and effective law enforcement to the proper and fair administration of justice. addresses the question of a president asserting immunity. writing it should be justified by exacting reasons of momentous public interest. national security. and be reviewable by a court of law. above all, it's effective should not be to shield the president from all legal process.
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especially in circumstances where it may appear that a claim of generalized immunity is invoked on personal than official grounds and work to place the president above the law. what does all that mean? in other words judge is saying president trump is not above the law and the constitutional mandates of checks and balances and separation of powers, those trump absolute immunity. president trump attorney jay sekulow was on chris cuomo today. he's what he said about the tax returns. >> the bigger issue for people at home -- why not just turn over the taxes? >> we're not required to when the people elected the president to become the president he had not issued tax returns. it's not required in the constitution. >> so what? >> because the constitution doesn't require it. >> that doesn't mean the constitution says you shouldn't.
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>> back again with jeffrey toobin and david gregory. i want to ask you the language this judge has used is stark. what are the implications you see for trumps impeachment inquiry now? >> well, i'll stay away from the law and raise the question of whether this gets us any closer to learning what's in the tax returns. and it appears the answer is not really. because even if there is an order they should be released they may not be released publicly. which is something that we'll have to wait for. i think the one piece of this i think is most constitutional question but becomes a political question is we have a means to hold a president accountable. for abusing office and abusing power. that is the impeachment process. the problem is it's such a political process and so the yields the result of removing a president from office.
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unless there's enough bipartisan ship to reach such a conclusion. which in this day and age of political polarization seems impossible. those are a couple of political questions. >> on this issue the idea of the taxes has been long brewing. is this about taxes? politically speaking. or more about the president flexing executive power in way he's saying you and what army? >> right. it's a much bigger issue. perhaps the supreme court will visit this again on the question of whether a president can be indicted. there's larger battles here about presidential authority about executive power. that predate donald trump as president. and some of this this is the judiciary speaking. congress has a role to do its job and assert prerogative. and more power. in this country. that's one of the fighting that is at issue here in impeachment. in this regard.
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it plays out in national security, the role of using force over seas, power that was given to the president after 9/11. that congress has not reauthorized or taken up the debate again. >> i have to mention this. this is really big. we remember the doj guideline was used by mueller to justify why he could not pursue charges and may have been the base sis and predicate for what the part 2 of the mueller report. what do you see as the big deal here thinking about a judge saying the guidelines, thank you very much, but it's not the constitution. >> right. it's important to point out this case is not about the prosecution of trump. what the trumps lawyers are arguing is that if you have the doj policy against prosecuting a president. you also can't subject the president to compulsory process in a criminal investigation.
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you can't subpoena and prosecute him. not prosecute him. the judge says no, even if you accept the policy of no prosecution, you can still treat the president like a witness who has to produce documents. and has to produce in this case the tax returns. remember also there's several cases all over the country about the president tax returns. the way ands means committee has its own process to get it. in california, there's a law that says you can't go in the presidential ballot unless you produce tax returns. you have this new york state prosecution investigation here. all of them are aimed at getting the tax returns, none succeeded so far. i think one or more will succeed eventually. >> of course remember we're talking about the case maybe the supreme court. we know it's the president's supreme court. in many ways. the decision to not allow
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garland to get a hearing in the past administration. and he seated more than one person. i wonder if it will have an impact. we'll follow the story. president trump is upsetting republicans defenders with his abrupt decision on syria. but they're awfully quiet. crickets when it comes to the ukraine scandal. why the utter lack of consistency? we'll break it down, next. what are you doing back there, junior?
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this is a cnn special hour. "white house in crisis: the impeachment inquiry." today republicans on capitol hill are actually outraged with the president of the united states. but here's the catch. it has nothing to do with the request for china and ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election. the reason they're so angry. the president hasty and confusing decision to pull u.s. troops out of syria. it seems like some republicans senators are only taking the president seriously half the time. take what rubio said about trumps calls for china to investigate joe biden. >> i don't think it's a real -- he did it to gig you guys and provoke you to ask me and others and get outraged by it. he plays it like a violin and everybody falls into it. it's not a real request. >> it's not a real request. but when trump announces pulling out troops from syria, that's
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real to senator rubio. saying it's a grave mistake. and senator majority lead mcconnell is actually running ads that say he will lead republican efforts to stop president trump from being removed from office. by the way, that's not even considering what an impeachment inquiry will find. but trump's decision on syria here's his strongly worded statement. a precipitous withdrawal of u.s. forces from syria would only benefit russia. iran and the assad regime. it would increase the risk that isis and other terrorist groups regroup. mcconnell says trumps decision benefits u.s. enemies. that's stunning. senator graham, he had no problems with trump asking ukraine to investigate joe biden. over debunked claims.
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>> i have zero problems with the phone call. there's no quid pro quo. >> zero problem. but trump's troop withdrawal from syria that's a big problem for senator graham. so big, that he called the president's favorite tv show to say it. >> this impulsive decision by the president is undone all the gains we have made. thrown the region into further chaos. iran is licking their chops. if i'm an isis fighter i have a second lease on life. i hope i'm making myself clear on how short sided this is. and irresponsible this decision is. in my view. >> impulsive action and has ramifications about foreign dip lowmatic relations. >> a lot to discuss here. joining me now. glad to have you all here.
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caitlyn, a big difference between how key republicans are reacting to the president syria withdrawal. and his calls for a foreign interference from ukraine and china. so, why the split here? >> they're making sure to separate the two. saying they don't interconnect them. if they are going to criticize the president over the decision on syria, that doesn't mean they're not going to still give him cover over the calls with ukraine that have come under scrutiny. that will be something to watch. the president is infuriating republicans who should have seen this coming. it is something he promised. it is something he talked about in december. it led to the resignation of the defense secretary at the time and other top officials. what's going to be interesting is the president fate in not that long potentially could be in a lot of the republicans hands. whether or not they hold the support for the president as he's likely facing this impeachment inquiry. that's something i heard a lot from white house officials today. they'll be watching how some of
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the key senate republicans are criticizing the president over this and of course whether or not he decides to recalibrate. as you saw him do today. he went on twitter and said he's going to try to restrain turkey. he didn't exactly go into detail of how he'll do so. >> compartmentalization. maybe the name of the game. why do the republicans senators feel it's okay to attack him on syria but want to cover election interference. is it a matter of compartmentalizing or something we're missing? >> the ukraine matter and the after math and scandal. and impeachment. it threatening the heart of the trump presidency. could under cut his ability to win reelection. and in the most extreme circumstance could lead to the removal from office. therest no sign they would republicans convict him.
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in the senate. agreeing he was over the line with ukraine and conduct was unbecoming of a president and fits the potentially the standard of high crimes and misdemeanors. that would be bridge too far for many republicans. they realize at the end of the day the fight over impeachment in the house the impeachment investigation for the most part is going to be a partisan affair. you have to pick your team essentially. republican or democrat. in this issue they view it as easier. safer ground. it doesn't threaten his presidency in any way. it's a policy matter to break from the president on. you have seen that from time to time in the trump presidency. over the trump tariffs or nato. move on syria. you have seen a very occasional break from the president on foreign policy ground. but when it comes to matters that could rock the core of the presidency, that's completely different. >> yet it's the same theme.
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foreign policy consideration. maybe it's just enough cover to show you're being objective to have a give and take. the president needs republicans support on the impeachment front. we know this. will his decision on syria cost him that support? >> well, it's a risky strategy to pursue when you need the republicans to side with you as jurors and counting on them to acquit him. he has picked the one thing that will unit republicans in the senate against him. the issue of supporting the kurds. for many of the senators this is about a couple of things. supporting a group of allies that spill their blood that died. dismantling is something trump likes to take credit for. and speaks to american integrity and dependability. they are worried about how allies will look at us in the future. when we go to war we do it as a coalition. we don't go alone.
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if you want to pick this one place to really give the republicans a chance to stand up, this is it. that seems to me a risky strategy looking into possible impeachment trial. >> it's a great point. you're reporting that the white house has been struggling with an impeachment strategy over all. the president campaign is taking the lead or attempting to. why is the campaign in a stronger position on this than say the white house? >> it's interesting. it's kind of something that's confusing people in the white house who don't understand why they haven't been able to develop a clear effective message since nancy pelosi launched that impeachment inquiry during that. something aids pushed back on saying it's not real impeachment until democrats bring it up for vote. which they have disputed. a simple as who is defending the president on tv. if you watch sunday not a single white house official was out there making the president's case.
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instead they left it up to republican lawmakers who for the people who watched could see they struggled saying the president was just kidding talking about the having china investigate the bidens an argument that the white house hasn't made. instead you're seeing the campaign take a lead here. where they're hosting a conference call with reporters today pushing talking points and at times the talking points were not completely accurate. they see it as they're trying to defend the president. trying to put a message out there. which you haven't seen a concerted effort like that from the white house yet. which is frustrating people. >> i hope it doesn't come down to the literally vs. seriously. thank you each for being part of the show. president trump claims it's a perfect call. he said it over and over again. but the facts just don't line up. the anatomy of a lie, just ahead. ancestry provided me the opportunity to bring all of these stories that i've heard to life.
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as democrats continue their investigation into the president, a second whistleblower has come forward. president trump was asked if he was concerned about the new whistleblower earlier this evening. take a look. >> not at all. because the call was a perfect call. you had stenographers and people took it down. it's a scam by the democrats to win an election they're not going to win in 2020. >> joining me now to break down the anatomy of a lie. cnn's resident fact checker. daniel dale.
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all right, we have heard it again and again. and again. the president says his call with the ukrainian prime minister zelensky was perfect. was it? >> well, i'll leave the characterization of the president. what the president keeps saying about the whistleblower complaint and its description of the call is inaccurate. he insists the whistleblower got the call wrong and way off. it's not at all. the whistleblowers three main points in the list were all corroborated by the very transcript that trump's white house released. >> of course he's claiming that transcript that was released by the white house was exact. but we know that's not true. the transcript itself says it's not a verbatim of a discussion. >> that's on the very first page of the text. there's a note saying caveat warning. this is not exact. it goes into explaining why it
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may not be exact. the transcript maybe affected by poor call quality. incomplete notes and so forth. it's not an exact transcript of the conversation with zelensky. >> the president called this whole impeachment inquiry -- you heard him say it. a scam. he's attacked the chairman of the house intelligence committee adam schiff. watch this from earlier tonight. >> what happened is schiff, adam schiff, went up before congress and read the most horrible speech. attributed the speech to me. he made it up. it was horrible. and he said the president of the united states said this on the call. it's a fraud. >> all right. take us through it. what exactly did schiff say? >> schiff at a meeting of the house intelligence committee offered a kind of confusing dramatic interpretation of the trumps phone call with zelensky. it was a mix of near actual quotes.
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schiff analysis and what schiff called parody. i wrote in a fact check that trump has reasonable ground to be mythed about this. there were times in the recitation it wasn't clear who was talking. schiff's take or trumps words. trump is wrong in saying schiff reported to be reciting actual words. he introduced it saying i'll give you the essence. he suggested that this was his own interpretation. >> thank you for your time. the american people need clarity not parody. we'll be right back. when we started our business
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house democrats are hours away from questioning a critical figure in the ukraine scandal. million dollars trump donor and u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland will be grilled over the text messages that he sent to other diplomats. cnn's alex marquardt shows us sondland's close relationship to the president and how he became a likely star witness. >> reporter: hi there, laura. ambassador sondland is going in front of no fewer than three house committees tomorrow -- foreign affairs, intelligence, and oversight. now, normally the ambassador to the european union wouldn't be so deeply involved in ukrainian affairs, but it's clear from text messages that not only was he a point man for president trump on ukraine, but he was
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very aware of what the president wanted. a wealthy donor given a large but uncontroversial role in the trump administration has been thrust into one of the biggest scandals to grip the white house. gordon sondland, ambassador to the european union, is testifying to congress on tuesday, now a key player in the impeachment inquiry because of his high-level dealings with ukraine. >> i had a wonderful hour-long meeting with president zelensky that followed on the heels of his telephone call yesterday with president trump. >> reporter: text messages released by the house intelligence committee show that sondland was well aware that for the president, the u.s.-ukraine relationship was deeply intertwined with the president's desire for ukraine to investigate joe biden and his son. the group messages sondland is on are full of references to rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer assigned to pushing a biden conspiracy theory that has zero supporting evidence.
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on september 1st, the ambassador to ukraine asked sondland if hundreds of millions of dollars and military assistance were conditioned on investigations. sondland responded "call me." a week later, the ambassador told sondland, "i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign." sondland denied it was, saying "president trump has been crystal clear. no quid pro quos of any kind. the president is trying to evaluate whether ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms." sondland has ended up in the hot seat in washington after a career in business. like president trump, building hotels across the country and making a lot of money. >> thank you. >> reporter: in the 2016 campaign, the longtime republican donor first supported jeb bush. he slammed trump for going after the gold star khan family, who lost a son in iraq. but his tune soon changed.
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once the election was over, sondland donated $1 million to trump's inauguration and secured his eu ambassadorship. once there, he linked up with energy secretary rick perry and now former special envoy kurt volker in managing the ukraine relationship, calling themselves the three amigos. >> and we've been tasked with sort of overseeing the ukraine-u.s. relationship between our contacts at the highest levels of the u.s. government and now the highest levels of the ukrainian government. >> reporter: there's one more part of that trove of text messages we need to highlight, a message in which sondland says that he thinks president trump really wants what he called the deliverable. that deliverable, we understand from the other messages, is a public statement from the ukrainian president that joe biden is his son will be investigated. laura? >> wow, thanks alex for that. there's a lot coming up on the docket tomorrow, everyone. ambassador sondland is set to be deposed behind closed doors.
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that begins at 9:30 a.m. we've got the d.c. district court going to hold a hearing on a lawsuit seeking redacted details in the mueller report. and the president is going to award the medal of freedom to edwin meese at 4:30 p.m. thanks for watching, everyone. our coverage continues. $9.95 at my age? $9.95? no way. $9.95? that's impossible. hi, i'm jonathan, a manager here at colonial penn life insurance company, to tell you it is possible. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get life insurance with options starting at just $9.95 a month. okay, jonathan, i'm listening. tell me more. just $9.95 a month for colonial penn's number one most popular whole life insurance plan. there are no health questions to answer and there are no medical exams to take. your acceptance is guaranteed.
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a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! . in just hours, a key figure in the impeachment inquiry heads to capitol hill. lawmakers want to know did the white house want political dirt in exchange for military aid? >> not shout beiing with anybod >> president trump defending his decision to let turkey invade northern syria. he's facing bipartisan anger at home. more fallout for the houston rockets and their general manager. chinese business is suspending ties over the gm supported tweet for hong kong's protesters. oh, the p
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