to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. thought spoke volumes earlier i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." this afternoon when the president was asked whether or not heuliani, you can follow me on twitter and his personal attorney, friend for many, many years will be instagram @wolfblitzer. you can always tweet the show at indicted? he said only, i hope not. cnn sitroom. >> thank you very much, jim erin burnett "out front" starts acosta. much more on that and as i was right now. looking down here. i was just looking at the good evening. i'm erin burnett. breaking news that we have. "the washington post" is "out front" tonight, breaking reporting at this hour that at news, two men arrested from the least four national security officials raised concerns about the trump administration's ukraine scandal. attempts to pressure ukraine for they're personal associates of rudy giuliani, trump's personal political purposes. there is a lot of breaking news lawyer. they were seen having lunch with giuliani at the trump in this story and i want to international hotel in emphasize, they're saying these washington just hours before they were arrested at the concerns were raised before the airport. i want to show you a picture of call and immediately after the one of the men about giuliani at call with ukrainian president that same hotel just last month. these two men were arrested as zelensky. greg miller broke the story and they were about to leave the joins me. greg, you're saying four united states with one-way national security officials tickets. here's what president trump said raised alarms about what the late this afternoon. white house was doing, and they >> i don't know them. did this before the call because they were already concerned and i don't know about them. after the call? enwhat they do. >> yeah. that's right, and this is a i don't know. maybe they were clients of rudy,

conservative estimate and these you'd have to ask rudy. are four officials that we know i just don't know. of that we have been able to >> one possible problem for the identify and there may be more, president, all of the photos like this, president trump with one of the men after dinner at and yeah. one of the important things in the white house back in may. another one from july of last our story is that some of these officials were going to lawyers year with the other giuliani associate and another one, inside the white house with here's both of them with trump, their concerns even before the call because of all of the stuff giuliani and vice president mike they saw happening and would pence. evan peres is out front tonight. include the removal of a u.n. how closer these men who are now arrested, right, for -- for alleged crimes to giuliani? ambassador and rudy giuliani and how closer they to giuliani? >> they're very close. planning trips to didkiev and or giuliani has referred to them as his clients and erin, more importantly, these are the guys developments that are getting closer and closer at the white who have -- who allegedly were house in early july that really unnerved a number of people in behind some of this operation that giuliani's been running to the room. >> so you also, and i want to give you -- there are a couple try to dig up dirt on joe biden of things in here that appear and joe biden's son alleging very significant. first of all, when you talk that there was some corruption allegations that needed to be about the transcript of the call investigated there in ukraine. itself that there was immediate these men allegedly, according concern about it, a lot of people on it had very serious to this -- this indictment that was unsealed by prosecutors in concerns. now, you're reporting that within hours of that

manhattan today were actually conversation it got moved. doing other things. they were essentially running a it didn't even take a day. business that was moving money within hours they moved it to from ukrainian sources, from the code level server? people overseas and trying to >> yeah. so the way it was described to us that this was an immediate essentially hide it as they were reaction. that even coming out of the call trying to funnel it to candidates here in the united states. these were congressional there were people who were immediately turning to higher candidates as well as hundreds ranking people in the white of thousands of dollars that allegedly were going to a pro-trump political action house. they were really alarmed by what committee here in the united happened and there was panic and states. all, of course, is illegal for you have the national security you to do because under u.s. law adviser john bolton at the time that was not on the call, you're not allowed to donate foreign money into u.s. scrambling to get a transcript of the call to figure out what candidates. so that's how close they were, had transpired and other officials are ordering this into and the question now, obviously, a highly classified server to not only how far does this go? get it out of visibility. we know that giuliani obviously >> one other point here, you was very tied to these men and talk about gordon sondland who you heard the president saying they pulled from testifying this he had no idea who they were, week who had been a big donor to but is that true? the president and was then the who else was involved in this? >> obviously a lot of questions and several pictures. ambassador to the european union and he started bringing stuff up

obviously there are a lot of with joe biden and the debunked pictures with the president with a lot of people and these are conspira repetitive events and this ties conspiracy theories about ukraine's role in went ballisti back for trump's attempt to get dirt from joe biden from ukraine. >> right. >> yeah. exactly. one of the broader questions >> was john bolton ballistic that's being asked tonight, erin because he being not believe is whether or not the effort to this was happening and had a problem with it? >> i think bolton, as smear joe biden was perhaps controversial as he was as a another influence operation, national security adviser, he foreign influence operation was very critical of russia and itself. was it perhaps something that very supportive of ukraine and people we don't know about, perhaps the russians, people who he saw what jewel yaen was doing are pro-russian business people and what these two ambassadors were doing as derailing what he in ukraine were behind funding regarded as a very important some of this. again, those are the questions policy, and he blows up over that are being asked because the that meeting in particular fbi and prosecutors in manhattan don't believe that we have a because there's a reference. full explanation yet about where this money was coming from. lo >> all right. sondland, they're meeting with a ukrainian delegation and going after the pre-approved talking thank you very much, evan, and i want to get straight to jim acosta who is traveling with the points and sondland goes off script and starts talking about president tonight. trump very clearly trying to ukraine re-opening distance himself from a person investigations that had been that he seemed thrilled for a closed and he doesn't use the

long time to be, you know, tied to, and that is rudy giuliani. word biden and everyone in the >> that's right. absolutely, erin. room knows what that means and the president is trying to put it is a frightening moment. some space between himself and rudy giuliani. >> it's interesting that it you heard the president on the could be a third rail of bolton south lawn of the white house on and we're wondering what he has this afternoon on his way to the to say about this and how important he could be. rally in minneapolis telling reporters he didn't know the two thank you very much. i want to go to sean patrick associates and telling reporters if you want to know what they maloney who sits on the house were up to, talk to rudy intelligence committee. all right. you and i were both desperately giuliani. at one point the president was asked why are you appearing in trying to re-do this as greg was laying some of it out. these are now very deep concerns these pictures with these two that were raised before the individuals and he said he takes call. they were raised after the call. pictures with a lot of people as a political candidate. john bolton himself had a very i talked to the president's serious issue with all of it. other personal attorney jake >> it's consistent with the whistle-blower complaint that sekulow and he only made a brief comment saying neither president was alarmed by this call. trump or the campaign is there are people still down there who still have a more compass, who are career involved in the scheme that professionals and care about the national security and know this is wrong. these facts will come out. these gentlemen were allegedly it is telling that this supports why the president was desperate involved here. a short time ago brad parscale, to stop ambassador sondland from the trump campaign manager was

testifying before the congress briefly talking with reporters. because he knows the truth. i asked him, did he know these two individuals tied to roouudy we should get the truth. >> obviously, he stopped sondland. you want the ambassador that was giuliani. he raises his money $64 at a removed so suddenly and because time. of allegations that she was so the campaign also trything, anti-trump or whatever it was. ambassador ivanovich, she obviously could be very important to all of this as well. she's supposed to be testifying. >> i'll be in washington. >> is she going to be there? >> i certainly hope so. i hope she follows the lead of ambassador volker. it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to stop her. >> she's still an employee of the state department. >> they need to instruct her and they haven't done that yet, but look, we know that they are -- look, everybody in this white house right now is either trying to clean it up or cover it up, but there are some people who want to get to the packs and i'm okay with that. i'm okay with the truth. i think that if the american people can just know the facts we'd be better off, and i think the key witnesses who were there

and saw what happened should be allowed to testify. stories leak the one with mr. giuliani today only underscore how shady he was dealing with. >> obviously he does take pictures of people and there were obviously multiple. he says you would have to ask rudy. i just don't know. do you believe him? >> we've seen denials like that over stormy daniels where the president has flat-out saying something it's not true. it's possible. presidents do take a lot of people, but not many people give $325,000 to the super pac and not a lot of people pump that kind of money illegally into a campaign. >> that's true. >> when you meet with those people they're different kinds of meetings and i don't know what is true or not, but what i can tell you is these people were breaking american laws. they should not have been involved in our politics. they pumped millions of dollars or hundreds of thousands into

the main super pac and they may be the clients who were paying for rudy giuliani's activities in ukraine. we should know who was paying for rudy giuliani's trips to ukraine, by the way. we don't know that. were these his clients? were these criminals paying him to engage in this activity? >> do you think giuliani did anything illegal? >> i don't know. i hope not. look, i'm old-fashioned about this. i don't want the american president or his senior advisers to be doing something wrong. it breaks my heart to think that an american president is engaged in this level of mendacity and shady conduct. let him come up and explain himself. let's see the documents and let's see the documents from the people who were there. i can live with the facts. apparently the white house cannot. >> the house democrat his requested documents and testimony from these two individuals who were arrested today. our understanding is the criminal case then will take precedence. so does this actually hurt your investigation? how important were they if all of a sudden they're kind of off

the table. is that the information that you needed to have and i think it's important that we stay focussed the on the president's conduct. there are other people who will look at these other facts. there are other parts of the government that can hold people accountable. our job is tell the american people what happened. what the president did and how it affected the national security and hold him accountable because no one is above the law and that's where our focus needs to be. >> congressman, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. we will see if ambassador ivanovich does show up and as far as the congressman knows hohas not yet gotten direction from team trump. the two associates have been arrested. the president not rushing to rudy's defense tonight. >> well, i hope not. again, i don't know how he knows these people. it's easy to move forward when you're ready for what comes next. at fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan

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breaking news. president trump telling our own kaitlan kohlencollins he hopes giuliani will not be indicted after two associates tried to help him dig up dirt on the bidens, they were arrested for illegally funneling foreign money and it was hardly full throated. here's how he put it when she asked. >> are you concerned that rudy

giuliani could be indicted in all of this? >> well, i hope not. again, i don't know how he knows these people. >> out front now, former senior adviser to president trump and host of the axe files, david axelrod and chief political analy analyst gloria borger and john dean and donald air and one of 16 attorneys many of whom worked in republican administrations who released a statement today calling for an expeditious impeachment probe. gloria, let me start with you, i hope not is trump's response on whether he's concerned rudy giuliani could be indicted. from a president who doesn't hesitate to lash out and viscerate and triple down in innocence, this doesn't sound like he's backing his man. >> he didn't come out and say this is a complete witch hunt, the indictment is a fraud and a phony. he said, i hope not. and so -- and he said you have to ask rudy if he knows these

people, and it sounded a lot like the way he was treating michael cohen before michael cohen became his ex attorney. >> i'm going to ask that in just a moment. david, let me do that. asked about the situation today, trump denied knowing the men that were associates of rudy giuliani who were arrested and he said ask rudy giuliani. let me play that. >> i don't know those gentlemen. now it's possible i have a picture with them because i have a picture with everybody. i don't know them. i don't know about them. i don't know what they do, but -- i don't know. maybe they were clients of rudy. you'd have to ask rudy. >> so the point that gloria just made, david, it sounds a whole lot like this infamous exchange that trump had with reporters about then-personal attorney michael cohen's hush money payment to stormy daniels. here it is. >> do you know about the $130,000 to stormy daniels?

>> no. no. >> you'd have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'd have to ask michael. >> david, you'll have to ask michael cohen. you'll have to ask rudy. it sure sounds like the same show. >> yeah. sounds like the sound of a branch being sawed off behind these guys, and i think that that, you know, the president uses these people to do his political chores and when it becomes inconvenient he separates himself from them. it's very tough given the exposure that rudy giuliani has had over the last two years and particularly through this episode to divorce himself from rudy. after all, rudy giuliani was the guy he wanted the president of ukraine to meet with, to discuss these matters of the bidens and ukraine's role in 2016 and so on. so it's pretty hard to jetson

rudy now. >> it certainly sounds like that, john, and look, the two that were arrested today, associates of giuliani were helping him to dig up bidens in ukraine and pushing for the u.s. ambassador for ukraine to be kicked out. she eventually was and today officials said, look, their arrests are not the end of this. what they said rudy giuliani could be very ominous. here they are. >> we will not hesitate to investigate and prosecute those who engage in criminal conduct that draws into question the integrity of our political process, and i want to add that this investigation is continuing. >> should giuliani be concerned that he may be next, john? >> i think he certainly should be. a couple of reasons, one, it's very unusual for the southern district to come out and make these kinds of announcements. they did it with michael cohen. they did it with jeffrey episteiepstein

and these are cases that they know the boss doesn't like and they're making it clear the presence is intact. secondly, if they read an indictment and it is an ongoing conspiracy. four people were named in the indictment and it is a very strong and very brief indictment. it's clearly an ongoing and potential in the indictment. they say the conspiracy is continuing and as they said in the press conference, they're still investigating. >> so, donald, look, this comes as "the washington post" is reporting at least four national security officials and i don't know if you heard the reporter and we should know that at least, with emphasis on at least raised alarms about what was happening with ukraine specifically about digging up dirt on the bidens and the debunked conspiracy theory on their role in the election and that they were doing so before the call. and when they heard the call within hours it got moved to the super secret server. it certainly screams at this

point that there were a lot of people who knew it was wrong and an immediate urge to cover up donald. >> well, this is an interesting example of something that with president trump we've seen over and over again, and that is things got deeper and thicker and more disturbing information comes out and it's sometimes an dwafrntage for him because we get distracted from what we already know otherwise. i was one of the folks thatsign what we do now and what she's shared with us and the call he had with the president of u crip and the public announce chlt that ought tab investigating and find dirt on the bidens. we know already and this is all very interesting and it will lead to more incriminating information, but we already know that the president has violated his oath of office. we already know that the president has used his powers in order to bargain for personal

benefits here of the worst kind. essentially aid and digging up dirt on political opponents and we know all we need to know to know that he should be impeached and what we're finding out now is more facts that pile on top and it will be interesting to watch. it will unfold and we'll get a lot of information and we shouldn't be distracted from what what we already know to be true and that's one of the problems with the amount of bad behavior that this president engages in. it distracts us. >> david axelrod, to that point, in this washington post report they are reporting that john bolton went balist being when these topics came up with gordon sondland and the guy who donated to him and the ambassador of the european union that jon bolton went ballistic and i also want to play for you because i don't know if you are aware that this just happened, and former national security h.r. mcmaster has now spoken out about this and i want to play for you what

he just said. >> do you think it is appropriate for the president of the united states to solicit foreign interference in our political process? thank you. >> of course, no. no. absolutely not. of course, it's not appropriate. >> david, h.r. mcmaster is obviously a very respected person. he at one time pushed the president's story about leaking classified information or sharing classified information with the foreign minister of russia. you now have h.r. mcmaster speaking out and john bolton said this was wrong. when you have so many people that are so respected and people may or may not agree with their politics, very senior who clearly think this is wrong, does thshgs daviis, david, star affect republicans? >> you know, i think the thing that might affect republicans is republican voters. the thing that is frightening republicans is the prospect of being tagged by trump and losing

primaries, but i want to make a point on bolton and mcmaster for that matter. i think gloria was on the same show was that he scorned bolton. he humiliated bolton and bolton is an institution in washington and even though there are people who don't like the things he's done and he's got a lot of relationships. >> yep. >> his fingerprints in my view, are all over a lot of these stories because he was a witness to a lot of these things and this is the most obvious example. i think this will be a problem for the president and all of these people he scorned have no reason to do him any favors here. >> go ahead, gloria. >> i want to add to what david is saying and you talk about changing republicans' minds and they're not going to shift until public opinion shifts ahead of them and then they would follow and the question i have hearing mcmaster today and how they're refusing who was asked according

to a story he said he would not do. >> where is mat? secretary of defense and these people who are no longer in the administration would have a great deal of impact if they came out together and said this is a problem. i don't know, david, maybe they would have some impact. >> no, i think there is a drip, drip, drip nature to this that could change public opinion, but when you ask how are republican politicians will behave? the reason they're hanging back and not commenting on what they know to be wrong is because they're just too concerned about the political implications of taking on a president who still has an 87 or something percent approval rating among republican voters. >> donald, in your letter which you wrote with the 16 other attorneys who many of them served under republicans. you do say we believe the acts

revealed publicly are fundamentally incompatible with the president's oath of office and h and his duties as commander in chief and his constitutional obligation to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. are you concerned that there is a whole investigation here and therefore, to the public the perception that there's more information needed is actually going to slow this whole thing down to a point where it loses that momentum? >> well, i think there is a challenge for the democrats and the folks on the hill that are running the investigation, and that is to move as quickly as possible and to make some hard judgments about how wide ranging. unfortunately, i think this president is probably guilty of numerous, numerous high crimes and misdemeanors that could be put into a bill of impeachment, and the question is bell, how many are we going to include. i'm not saying they have to do it in the next two weeks, i

think that would be premature and it seems to me we already know the answer and the question should be. >> john dean, what would you say is the timing from here? >> somewhere between the end of the year and the 2020 election. i can't predict exactly when it's going to come down. i think the house will move obviously with some dispatch and whether there will ever be a senate trial is up for grabs still. i think a crafted, a well-crafted articles of impeachment that do pass the house could put a lot of members on the senate on the spot. >> well, and it's also very interesting. i will say that you're saying the end of the year between the end of the year and the actual election itself as many would hope that this is all done before that. thank you also very much. thank you all for joining us. our special with the 2020 town

hall begins now. ♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause ] good evening and welcome to the cnn democratic presidential town hall equality in america. i want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world from the novo in los angeles. i'm dana bash. it has been 50 years since the riots had stonewalled and the riots against police oppression