tuesday for game one of the world series and i'll leave you with these important, very important words, go nats! i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." thanks very much for watching. erin burnett out front starts right now. out front next, trump's meltdown. democrats walking out of a meeting after the president rails against them. they say he called pelosi a third-grade politician. plus more witnesses speaking out behind closed doors in the impeachment probe and one person's testimony that could destroy the president hour away in an under oath appearance. it reads like a farce, but it is no laughing matter. let's go "out front." good evening. i'm erin burnett. out front tonight, a meltdown and a walkout. president trump and nancy pelosi met late today and democrats say trump was in meltdown mode. >> he was insulting,

particularly to the speaker. she kept her cool completely, but he called her a third grade politician. he said that the -- there are communists involved and you guys might like that. i mean, this was not a dialogue. it was sort of a diatribe, a nasty diatribe not focused on the facts. >> on the part of the president was a melt down, sad to say. >> both sides agree that pelosi walked out of the meeting and just moments ago trump tweeted his picture of the encounter saying pelosi had an unhinged meltdown trying to use her own words and throw them back at her. if you look at their faces up close, they both look pretty angry. who had the meltdown? the democrat or the top republican in the land? mitch mcconnell told reporters off-camera, i didn't make any

observations in the meeting. i don't have any to make now. i didn't make any observations in the meeting, if that statement is the best of what the republican leader has in a meeting that all sides agree that ended up someone walking out on the president of the united states it sure does not make the president's version of things sound like the truth. the reality is that the meeting was about syria, but trump is feeling the pressure multiple fronts tonight. he called pelosi a third-grade politician not just because of her position on syria and the kurds and after all she's the one leading the impeachment investigation and today was another day, another testimony in the impeachment, and this from mike pompeo's former senior adviser and we are houring away from testimony from the man who could be the most damaging, gordon sondland, the ambassador to the european union. that is going to be crucial is an understatement and we'll have much more on that later this hour. i want to begin now with manu

raju out front on capitol hill. what you are you learning about that meeting today? >> it got off to a rocky start. the president said the democrats wanted the meeting and the democrats said the president wanted that meeting and the president went into a bit of a monologue according to the democrats' account of the meeting and at one point during the monologue he said there were communists in syria and that democrats could like that. the speaker later noted that the house today overwhelmingly supported by a 354-60 vote, a measure that essentially condemned the president's actions in syria and the president did not take that so well according to the speaker that she did not like that. chuck schumer read a quote from president trump's former secretary jim mattis and the president according to the democrats cut off schumer and said general mattis was the world's most overrated general. you know why? he wasn't tough enough and according to the democrats

donald trump said i captured isis. general mattis said it would take two years and i captured them and the president called nancy pelosi a third-grade politician. the speaker got up and was about to leave and she ultimately left. schumer stayed back and the president later said to them i'll see you at the polls and then when they came back to the capitol, nancy pelosi said i now have to pray for the president's health and when i asked the speaker whether or not she suggested the president is mentally health, she said i'm not talking about his mental health. i'm talking about his ability to handle the truth. >> boris sanchez is out front. the president now putting up his picture trying to use the same wor words nancy pelosi is using and trying to tell a very different story. >> the white house is essentially projecting on to nancy pelosi suggesting that she had a meltdown using her own words about the president. stephanie grisham, the press

secretary put out a statement a short time ago suggesting that the president was measured and factual and now he's on a roll on twitter tweeting out these photos trying to troll democrats. his focus clearly on his feud for them and not on the substance of the meeting and the president has not tweeted about this overwhelmingly bipartisan resolution that was passed today in the house nor about these sanctions, this package of sanks against turkey said to be introduced in congress tomorrow and also bipartisan and also reportedly much harsher than the sanctions that the white house has enacted on turkey. the president again focusing on this feud calling democrats unhinged while he himself made several statements that lead to questions about his grasp of reality over the facts and over the situation on the ground in syria suggesting that the kurds are safer now that the turkish military has entered that territory. the kurds may have released isis

prisoners for political gain. the president returning to these false, deep state conspiracies making accusations about other officials. so he is not focused on cleaning up the mess that he created in the mideast and on driving home with this fight that he has with democrats. >> thank you very much, boris. when it comes to just, you know, stability and the letter here that the president wrote, the president of turkey, we're going to talk much more about that because it's really important, but i want to go to someone who was inside that meeting between the president and the speaker. democratic congressman adam smith who is a member of the house arms services committee. you were inside the meeting. you have the president trying to use pelosi's words against her saying she was unhinged and having a meltdown. what happened inside that room? >> and the policy is important here because we did, you know, mostly after the speaker and the majority leader left and also the minority leader and the senate, we did have a substantive discussion about

what's the plan here? what are you going to try to do with turkey? what are you going to try to do to protect us from isis? the president, the way he talks, you know, particularly if he's talking to a rival is, quite frankly, insulting. i don't know if he fully grasps that. i would assume he does and that's just the way he talks and it's just how he started and after a while the speaker had kind of had enough and decided that she was going to, you know, try to correct him on a couple of those points and it evolved from there. i wasn't going to walk out of the meeting because i think it really matters what the relationship is -- >> are you disappointed that she did? >> no. i think the speaker knows what she's doing. she wasn't the only one in the room. we had, you know, i was there, the chairman of the house services committee and the chairman of the house committee, bob menendez was there. she didn't tell the rest of us to leave. the substantive meeting was going to happen and i think she felt like her role at that point

just given the president's reaction to her was not going to be productive. >> so let me ask you a question, chairman. the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell was there, any and he was asked, and his response was i didn't make any observations in the meeting. what do you make of that? this is the majority leader in the senate and this is what he's saying. >> well, there were republicans in that room who did challenge the president on the details of the syria policy. congresswoman cheney in particular, but she's concerned that isis will be left unchecked in that part of the world and what is the policy going forward so there were questions raised by members there. mitch mcconnell and i was at the second meeting in the white house. he's not a very talkative guy. i think he can probably talk to the president whenever he wants to talk to the president.

so in these meetings he's not looking for that. the rest of us were looking to get genuine answers. >> so you're saying he didn't take him on and that's because he could in other ways, but he's certainly not willing to call him out for, you know, his demeanor being insulting which, you know, you're saying was just the point of fact as to how he behaved. >> it's a hard thing here because, look, i've been in politics a long time. i work with who i have to work with. >> yep. >> this is the president of the united states. frankly, i've been insulted by many, many people throughout my life. it sort of comes with the territory. we've got work to do and i'm not going to focus that, and i do think that it is unfortunate that the president is as disrespectful to the speaker of the house as he is, but we have work to do, and answers to get. so we continue to pursue those for the rest of the meeting. >> so today the house approved a resolution opposing the president's decision to withdraw u.s. forces from syria, right? that was a policy move that was made censoring the president and

his actions. the vote was 354-60. okay. so you can focus the 60, but i want to focus the 354. that means a whole lot of republicans voted against this president and something they're unwilling to do on a regular basis when it comes to other things on his behavior and they did on this policy. do you think that moves it any closer to impeachment or not? >> probably not. this is a separate issue, to be sure. there are connections you can make in terms of how the president conducts foreign policy, but i don't think the republicans are moving toward impeachment. i think they feel passionately about protecting the kurds, first of all, they were our partners in the region in fighting isis and they worked to protect us from the terrorist groups and to protect us from the turks is deeply disturbing to them. it's a complicated region and it certainly wasn't an easy problem, but the president did

not present a coherent political strategy for meeting u.s. interests there. those are legitimate questions to be raised and irrespective of impeachment. >> i appreciate your time, chairman, as always. thank you. >> thanks for the chance. >> next, president trump's letter to the turkish president. i referenced it, and i referenced it because i don't want to just give you a quote. i want to read it. you want to hear it and you need to hear it. plus sources tell cnn officials are now conducting a counter inteal jens investigation into rudy giuliani and what he did in ukraine. how much trouble is giuliani in and what does this mean for his boss and more on what witnesses are telling congress about the impeachment probe and why the adviser to the eu was a national security risk. it's easy to move forward when you're ready for what comes next. at fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan to cover the essentials in retirement,

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president trump writing up a bizarre letter to turkey's president. the date of this letter is october 9th, but he decided to leak it today amid widespread and bipartisan decision over the sudden decision to pull u.s. troops out of syria. this is one of those things where you must hear it for yourself, the whole letter and so i will read it to you. it comes on white house stationary. dear mr. president, this is written to president erdogan. let's work out a good deal, exclamation point. you don't want to be responsible for slaughtering thousands of people and i don't want to be responsible for destroying the turkish economy and i will. i'val read give vr given you a little sample with respect to pastor brunson. he was held as a political prisoner in turkey. i've worked hard to solve some of your problems. don't let the world down. you can make a great deal. general mazloum is willing to negotiate with you and he's willing to make concessions that they never would have made in the past. he's referring to a kurdish general. i am confidentially enclosing a

cope of his letter to me, just received. history wil look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. it will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. don't be a tough guy. don't be a fool exclamation point. i will call you later. sincerely, donald j. trump. assistant for department of homeland security, julia kayyem and david gergen and new york times congressional editor julie hirschfield davis. david, here ate thing about this. i don't want to laugh about it because it's -- this is a letter that was actually sent, at least, he says it was. have you ever seen anything like this? >> well, erin, many presidents write tough letters, nasty letter, angry letter, frustrated letters. the normal presidents then put them in a jar in a file called burn before sending. this had such an adolescent

quality to it when i read it i immediately called my researcher, and i said see if this is wake. i can't believe the white house sent this out because it is unprecedented to the best of my knowledge and it makes it tougher to work with turkey which is a member of nato and we need to figure out ways to get this stopped, hopefully short of much more violence. >> juliette, don't be a fool, exclamation point, i'll call you later and i'll destroy the turkish economy. he'd have to have a lot of people onboard for doing that and the u.s. is not one of turkish trading partner and it lacks teeth. what do you make of this letter? >> the most important thing is it was completely ignored. it arrives the day before the genocide begins. it was unsuccessful. it showed a president who basically didn't know -- basically predicted the genocide would occur and only sent a letter like this to try to stop it, it only discloses that the president was willing to share

information from our ally, the kurds, to turkey in a way that who knows what the kurds actually wanted and fourth, and most important is what matters is what's happening today which is donald trump is repeating the talking points of both the turks and the russians about who the kurds are, that they're bad people or they're not good people. that's a talking point coming from the turks. so put in its totality, there are two explanninations, one ise president can't do his job, or he can't do his jobs for reasons related to russia, turkey or syria that we can only surprise at this stage. >> right and only on one side. julie, this comes as the house overwhelming approved a resolution approving trump's move to withdraw american forces from syria, right? you had 354-60. you had 60 siding with the president and 129 against him 37 how much is this mobilizing

trump's own party against him? >> well, i think it clearly has mobilized his party against him more than any other issue has since he took office. i mean, that's two-thirds of the republican conference in the house. it's all of the elected leadership among republicans, and he clearly is feeling very wronged by this vote, and nancy pelosi's words somewhat shaken by it, and he actually, you know, handed this letter out in this meeting that he had with the bipartisan congressional leadership shortly after the vote to show in his mind that he tried to be tough and he'd tried to head off what everyone has criticized him for green lighting which is essentially this horrible result, and i think that's clearly what's behind the release of his letter is his sort of effort to clean up what he is getting criticized for even from his own party. >> so, david, this is the thing. as julie says he's trying to put this out as cleanup, but the date on it, you know, would

indicate that the turkish president received it and then did the opposite of what trump wanted him to do, but trump, david, obviously thinks that leaking this letter which he leaked to a fox business reporter makes him look good, right? i mean, he thinks this, clearly. >> oh, i think that's right, and he's trying to send a message, look, i'm tougher than you think any it was the same message he was given to the congressional leaders today when he trashed general mattis and he said basically he's the most overrated general in the world, but he also said mattis told me it would take two years to capture isis. i captured isis in one month says the president and he's trying to show his muscles and his will, but i think the letter, the quality of the letter just is demeaning to everybody. >> well, i mean, certainly the way it's written, juliette, is at best, adolescent. at best, adolescent. my other question for you is

it's -- it's not well written and it's adolescent in its tone, but yet it went which means that -- which means that does anyone in there say, hey, maybe -- maybe this isn't okay? no? nobody even tries anymore? >> maybe they -- maybe they did and he ignores everyone at this stage. all that matters is the president by constitutional design as a commander in chief and the united states speaks in one voice, through his to the outside world and the outside world is not just turkey. imagine if you were an ally reading this. i have teenage boys and when they're in trouble i say i'll call you, right? just to keep them holding for a while and this is one of those letters where you're sort of thinking does he actually think that the president of turkey is going to be impacted by a strangely, threatening letter, but the audience, of course, is our allies, as well who see this and wonder the same things we wonder about his capability to do the job that he needs to do to protect american interests and not just the trump empire

interests. >> if you want someone to do something that you want, i will call you later written like that is -- i don't know. if i received it it would be likely for me to do the opposite. for most people that would be the emotional, gut reaction. juliette, here's the thing, when you look at what's happening on capitol hill, right? which you cover, you have lindsay graham who has become parodied on all of the president's talking points when it comes to the ukraine in defiance of the facts and even on this issue, on syria, he's had a public war of words today and here they are. >> he will have american blood on his hands if he abandons kurds because isis will come back and if any american is killed because of a resurgent isis it will fall on the trump administration like he did obama. >> lindsay graham would like to stay in the middle east for thousands of years and fighting

other people's wars. i think lindsay should focus right now on judiciary. >> your oath of office is to protect us against all enemies foreign and domestic so clearly, president trump has learned almost nothing from iraq. >> juliette, i guess the question is does this mean that lindsay graham will start to take the president on on any other issue or do we just expect to get complete whiplash and have him parrot the president's talking points on everything else? >> well, this has been really a singular issue not just for lindsay graham, but for a lot of republicans and we don't generally see the kind of rebuke that we saw on the house floor with president trump by republicans today, and i wouldn't expect to see this sort of cross issues. this is something, i think that senator graham and others in the party think is really a singular thing and something that they don't want to be associated with and they're afraid that now that this genie is out of the bottle, so to speak that they won't be able to do anything, sanctions or otherwise to mitigate against

what's happening here and the violence on the ground that's happening and that they really hold president trump responsible for it. so i don't know that this really crosses over to any other issue, but i do think that we're going to continue to see harsh criticism and it would be interesting to see if they take legislative action beyond sanctions to do something about it and try to roll back what is clearly, what they see is a disastrous result. >> thank you all very much. next, we now know investigators have launched a counterintelligence probe into rudy giuliani. so does this put his boss, the president, at risk? plus elizabeth warren gets the front-runner treatment. >> i appreciate elizabeth's work, but again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done. home to three of bp's wind farms. which, every day, generate enough electricity to power over 150,000 homes. and of course, fowler. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere.

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new tonight, the federal investigation into president trump's lawyer rudy giuliani includes a counterintelligence probe. that's according to sources familiar with the matter and it's just days after authorities brought charges against four of giuliani's associates. sources tell cnn it is clear there could be more charges in the investigation. evan peres is out front. you're not talking a counterintelligence investigation into the president of the united states' personal attorney. sometimes it's worthwhile to put the simple facts in, and let me take a deep breath here of the significance, what else do you know about the investigation tonight? >> erin, this is something that the counterintelligence agents have to look at simply because of the idea if rudy giuliani is involving wittingly or unwittingly with what is a foreign influence operation targeting the white house, that

is very important for the fbi and prosecutors in manhattan to understand. we know that this began or at least part of it was being handled by public corruption investigators and fbi agents in new york, in the manhattan u.s. attorney's office and they're the same ones, by the way, that did the michael cohen case, and so we've seen just glimpses of what they have including in the indictment against these four associates and by the way, the last one of which his name david korea was arrested in new york when he landed in jfk, he turned himself in and we'll see how that proceeds and we're getting an idea that this is a broader investigation than we first thought and has been going on longer than we knew. the lawyer by the name of david mccalan in new york said he was talked to by fbi counterintelligence agents and that's the questions they had, they had questions about giuliani and about these two

people that are igor fruman who were indicted in that case and they raised questions of counterintelligence concerns that the fbi had. again, we're just getting a little glimpse into what appears to be a much broader investigation than we realized. >> evan, thank you very much. i want to go now to former new jersey attorney general ann millgram, an impeachment professor at brown university, corey brukschneider. ann, how worried -- let's start with rudy giuliani himself. again, the president's personal attorney and this is relating to counterintelligence in ukraine linked to the whole joe biden situation, possibly. how worried should giuliani be? >> i think rudy giuliani should be enormously worried. it started as a counterintelligence investigation because he had all these contacts with ukrainians and individuals on the ground. it is now what has been reported a criminal investigation and it's important to note that the fbi can be doing both things and it is being run in a way where it's been publicly reported that their inquiries into his

financial ties with the two individuals who have been charged and parnas who has paid giuliani half a million dollars and inquiries into the u.s. ambassador to the ukraine and a host of other things. and so there's financial questions. there's political questions and then there's this broader counterintelligence question of whether the ukrainians were using him to influence a u.s. government in a way that harms the national security. >> now you have this, and the criminal and counterintelligence on rudy giuliani. what does this mean possibly for the president himself? again, this is his personal lawyer who we know was trying to go ahead and put whatever word one would use, further the president's goals in ukraine. >> it confirms what we already know from the phone call. if you read out of the phone call, it's very clear that he's trying to solicit a favor in an american election from a foreign leader. he keeps saying there is no quid pro quo, but if you look at the

phone call, it's clear he's offering a trade. you give me this information and you give me dirt on my political opponent and his son and i'll help your economy with arms and it's certainly a high crime and misdemeanor because the require ime requirementes that the framers gave us is a degradation of the office. >> we could be in a situation where a criminal situation is going in the courts, but that possibly really would force congress' hand, right? because then you take away the subjectivity of a high crime and misdemeanor away, right? if you get a criminal conviction of rudy giuliani? >> i think it's clear that it's not just that the congress can impeach and that the senate can remove and they're obligated to do so because we have a crime, crime, and we certainly have a high crime and misdemeanor within the meaning of the constitution and the president's abused power in the worst possible way and the framers using foreign powers in a way that would be dangerous within american soil. >> so, ann, you were talking

about quid pro quo. this comes hours ahead of gordon sondland's testimony. he is at the heart of the quid pro quo conversation. so there's what's in the transcript which is in black and white for everyone to see. for those that want more there are all these interviews and depositions going on. his text messages are at the center of the impeachment investigation. the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine texts sondland, as i said on the phone, ink it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help of the political campaign. and sondland replies in this, bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intensions the president has been crystal clear. no quid pro quos of any kind. sounds weird. it was dictated by trump to sondland on how to respond to that text. how damning could that be? >> sondland has two problems. one is there's this gap after he gets, and this is the second text message that he gets from that american ambassador and it's the second one nine days later which essentially says the

same thing which, if there is a quid pro quo and it's pauses and it's hours later that he responds with this formal thing that he now will say that trump told him. >> according to "the washington po post" there is a phone call with the president. fiona hill, who was on the national security council, she worked in the white house and was in charge of the russia desk, she has testified it's been reported that sondland was in a meeting that happened weeks before these conversations back and forth with taylor, the american ambassador to ukraine in which sondland was there and was there to raise the issue of the ukrainian investigations into biden with ukrainians in the white house. so sondland's problem in my view is he wanted to say it wasn't me, it was donald trump. i didn't know anything about this -- >> he was doing it. >> exactly. i don't see how he gets out of this tomorrow without serious damage. >> corey, the thing is if sondland appears tomorrow it's under oath. they told him, look, it's under

oath. the guy donated a million dollars to president trump, but it's under oath, i don't think he'll want to go to jail for lying tomorrow or prison. the big line of trump's defense has come down to those three words. here's the president. >> the text message that i saw from ambassador sondland who is highly respected was there's no quid pro quo. he said that. >> no quid pro quo. >> no quid pro quo. >> no quid pro quo. >> no quid pro quo. >> so if gordon sondland says yeah, he told me to write that, does that decimate trump saying there's no quid pro quo? >> yeah. it's a bizarre argument to begin with, just because somebody says somewhere that there is no quid pro quo. we saw the transcript and we saw what happened. there was quid pro quo. it's clear that the ambassador must have known what was going and he shows consciousness of guilt. the fact that he feels so defensive to say these things

suggests to me that he knew something was wrong and common sense would tell anyone in america that if a foreign government is involved in a -- a deal to trade arms for help in our own election, that's certainly wrong and likely criminal. >> i think from a common sense perspective it is the most important source of arms to have against their largest adversary. thank you both very much. >> the president called james mattis the world's most overrated general. the supreme allied commander calls him a mentor and he's out front next. 2020 democrats are stepping up their attacks on elizabeth warren. she was more specific and forthcoming about the number of selfies she's taken than about how this plan is going to be funded. ♪

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tonight, president trump defiant on pulling u.s. troops out of northern syria. isis militants being released from jail and tens of thousands of children losing their homes as the battle began, trump said it is not his problem. >> they have a problem in a

border. it's not our border. >> we're not a police force. >> two countries that fight over that has nothing to do with us. >> out front now, former allied supreme commander, sailing true north, ten admirals and the voyage of character. it is great to see you. >> good to see you, erin. >> i guess i want to start with your reaction with what the president repeatedly says that this conflict in northern syria has nothing to do with us. >> yeah, i -- i get it on the middle east fatigue in the country, but a couple of quick points. one is this has an enormous amount to do with us. look who the winners are here. it's the islamic state who will come back, and it's the u.s. which is locked in a conflict in the region and it's russia as vladimir putin pops these strings and it's a war criminal dictator assad who uses chemical weapons against his people. for all those reasons we need to

be engaged and i'll close, erin, by saying let's look at history in this regard and say korean peninsula 1950s, when things got tough on the peninsula did we say, you know, those koreans weren't with us at normandy. they weren't with us in world war ii, we ought to just kind of get out of here. well, if we had done that we would not have the 14th largest economy in the world in south korea. we would not have a staunch ally in that region, and we would have sent a terrible message. this is an analogous situation. we ought to stay engaged and it's a small number of troops any these are 2,000 or 3,000 as opposed to the 50,000 when i was allied commander. >> the presence in asia, the region rife with war has become a region known for peace and in no small part, perhaps fully due to american involvement. i want to ask you about something else, admiral that happened today because you've known the former general of

defense mattis, and he warned that it doesn't have a troop presence in syria. president trump was asked about that warning today during the meeting with democrats and republicans and mcconnell was there that we were covering. we are told from a source the president responded that mattis was, quote, the world's most overrated general. you know why? he wasn't tough enough. i captured isis. mattis said it would take two years. i captured them in one month. >> it's just so unbelievable. having known secretary mattis, general mattis who has been a mentor to me. he's seven years older than i am. he is an individual of sterling quality and reputation for the president of the united states to even remotely impugn his reputation is truly shocking, and lastly this comment that i defeated isis is just beyond the pale. isis was defeated by the work of

the obama administration to begin with and them the trump administration, but above all, it was the work of our allies,r region. it was the kurds from whom we are now walking away. so it is correct to say this is a tactical failure of u.s. policy and a significant strategic failure. >> so we have this letter which i mean, i literally, david gergen said he had to have someone check to see if it was real and i had the same sentiment and no doubt you did, as well. he sent it to president erdogan last week before erdogan starts with his attack and the sign off is don't be a tough guy. don't be a fool, exclamation point. i will call you letter after he threatens to destroy the turkish economy. your new book "sailing true north" is about character traits and good leadership and talking to people that you know well who have exhibited that throughout your life. when you see a letter like this from the president of the united states and you try to square that with what you just wrote about -- >> yeah.

>> what do you see here? >> i can't imagine a single admiral that i looked at in history writing a letter like this. and let's contrast here, chester nimitz, fleet admiral nimitz who takes command of the pacific fleet days after pearl harbor. he's looking at the smoke hulks of the ships in pearl harbor. he squares his shoulders without any big display of emotion, no self-centeredness, he builds a team and defeats the japanese empire. it takes four years. that's the kind of calm and resilient leader we need. leadership, erin, is about the influence we exert on others. character is how we lead ourselves. that inner voyage of character, i would argue, is much more difficult. the big door of leadership swings on the small hinge of character. that is the lesson of the book. >> i appreciate your time, admiral, and it is great to see you? great to see you. >> a surprising admission from

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hello marco's. tonight democrats escalating their attacks on elizabeth warren as she struggles to explain how she plans to pay for medicare for all without raising taxes on the middle class. >> she was more specific and forthcoming about the number of selfies she's taken than about how this plan is going to be funded. >> she's going to have to tell the truth, or the question will be raised about whether or not she's going to be candid and honest with the american people. >> and this all started at last night's debate. >> i appreciate elizabeth's work, but again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done. >> your signature, senator, is to have a plan for everything, except this. >> do you think a wealth tax is the best way to address income

inequality? your response. >> i think it's part of the solution, but i think we need to be focused on lifting people up. sometimes i think that senator warren is more focused on being punitive. >> join me in saying that his twitter account should be shut down. >> let's figure out -- >> no? >> -- why it is that we have had laws on the books for antitrust. >> and i went on the floor and got you votes. i got votes for that bill. >> outfront now, joan walsh, national affairs correspondent for "the nation" and cnn political commentator and ed rendell who supports joe biden. you heard many democrats calling out elizabeth warren for failing to explain how she'll pay for medicare for all. a real issue for her considering the bernie sanders' plan is the one she supports and he says he's going to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. did this really reveal her weakness as a candidate or not? >> look, she's had an amazing run and she has run the race on

her terms, and i admire that and we must all admire that. last night she found out it's not always going to be on her terms. yes, she's going to have to explain how she pays for it. as someone who actually supports medicare for all, i think you have to lay out how you do it. i think you have to lay out what it's going to cost. senator gillibrand wanted to do it through payroll taxes and be very explicit about that that way. that's a way. other people have other ways. but you can't keep dodging. you look dodgy if you keep not answering the question. >> and she was refusing to do that again and again. governor, did the attacks on warren help vice president biden last night? >> well, look, it's hard to tell who's the beneficiary when a candidate stumbles. senator warren certainly -- this was the second debate in a row where she refused to answer the question and she was asked explicitly, first by george

stephanopolous last month and by the fellow from "the new york times," will your plan cause a tax increase and she wouldn't answer the question. you can't get away with that running for president of the united states, you have to be honest with the american people. senator sanders, i don't think his math adds up but at least he's honest. he says taxes will have to go up but it will be offset by the reduction in costs of premiums and co-pays. so i think elizabeth probably stumbled. how big a stumble, hard to tell. but cumulatively she's going to have to come to grips with that question. i don't think you can be -- i don't think you can be for ending private insurance and be elected president. >> look, there were others on the stage that agreed with that sentiment and made it loud and clear last night. klobuchar, buttigieg and others among them. joan, it's interesting what the governor says. he said it's hard to tell who benefits when a candidate stumbles. there's that issue but there's the other issue, which is joe biden's performance on its own. >> right. >> separate from her being

attacked. and he had a lot of energy last night. here's a few of the exchanges i had with him last night right now. >> i'm going to say something that is probably going to offending some people here, but i'm the only one on the stage that's only gotten anything really big done. >> former president jimmy carter said he could not undertake the duties of the presidency at 80 years old. why are you so sure that you can? >> because i've watched it, i've been engaged. one of the reasons that i'm running is because of my age and my experience. with it comes wisdom. we have to unite the country because, folks, it's time we stopped walking around with our heads down. we are better positioned than any country in the world to own the 21st century so for god sake, get up. >> okay. joe got up. he's got his energy. yeah, i think he had the best night. i do think that that last exchange with elizabeth warren when she refused to give him any

credit for lobbying for the cpfb, i thought he seemed a little nasty. she should have been more gracious -- >> he came at her and i didn't know if it was possible for her to up the ante on nastiness, but she did. it was not a nice exchange on either side. >> it was not a nice exchange. so there were times when he seemed a little bit too ready, a little too fortified and that was one of them. but i would say it was his best night so far. >> governor, i'm sure you would agree with that. look, there's also the context here. he has that night where he brings the energy and some are saying this is the best debate he had. and then we're finding out that the biden campaign says it has a lot less cash on hand than others in the top five. so he defended his campaign today. here he is. >> we've been in the process of having about a third of the time that many people have had and we're doing fine. our fund-raising is building. we feel confident we're going to

be ready. >> governor, bernie sanders is more than three times as much money as biden. are you concerned at all that biden's campaign is burning through cash so quickly? >> no, i'm not. i was on the phone today talking with people about some upcoming pennsylvania fund-raisers and people were enthusiastic. i asked one man for the maximum of $2800 and he said of course, but i'm going to bring my wife and she's going to max out too. so they're giving double what i asked for. the enthusiasm for the vice president is out there. he's going to have more than enough money to run a good, effective communication strategy. look, for president the person that raises the most money doesn't always win. jeb bush learned that and hillary clinton outspent and outraised donald trump 2-1 because there's so much free media coverage, it dill luutes effect of money that dominates a governor's race or senator's race. i think joe biden will have more than enough money to go all the

way through super tuesday. if he does as well as i expect on super tuesday, he'll have plenty of money flowing into his coffers after that. >> joan. >> but it does force him to spend more time raising money and it raises a problem that he has with at least the progressive base, which is that he's taking a lot of corporate dollars. and so it highlights he's not doing as well as he needs to do. he's going to do more and some of our voters are not that keen on the way he's raising money. so it's not a good thing. >> governor -- >> well, let me just respond to that. >> yeah, go ahead, governor. >> no, you go ahead, erin. >> you go ahead. >> i was just going to ask you about alexandria ocasio-cortez. she's going to endorse bernie sanders. do you think that that is significant in this race at this time? >> i think bernie sanders and elizabeth warren need to expand their base, but their bases are the same, progressive voters, far left progressive voters. yes, cortez and ocasio have a

following, there's no question about that and that will takes votes from elizabeth, but there's plenty of endorsements down the road. >> thanks very much to both of you, always appreciate it. thanks to you for joining us. "ac 360" with anderson starts now. good evening. the lawmaker who is second in line to the president says the commander in chief had in her words a meltdown today. that's only part of house speaker nancy pelosi's account of the meeting this afternoon on the president's syria pullout. she says he also called her, quote, a third grade politician and on top of that, a democratic source tells us and a democratic senator confirms it and you'll hear from him in a few moments that the president also called james mattis, his former defense secretary, quote, the world's most overrated general. there is, it seems, no one who has worked for the president who he isn't willing to throw under the bus. today also saw a large bipartisan