there's no place like home, but the washington nationals are the first-ever team to win the world series entirely on the road. they stayed in the fight and were so proud. congratulations to our washington nationals. excellent, excellent work. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. out front next, a historic impeachment vote in the house as a key witness testifies to a quid pro quo. so why is the white house claiming victory tonight? plus two major court hearings tonight that could change the course of the impeachment investigation. what we're learning from inside the courtroom. and a rising democrat embroiled in a scandal delivers a blistering farewell speech and tonight she leaves congress pointing fingers. let's go "out front". good evening. i'm pamela brown in for erin burnett. "out front" tonight, the breaking news, the impeachment investigation now in high gear

on this historic day when the house of representatives voted to move forward with the impeachment of president trump. another crucial witness testifies of a quid pro quo between trump and ukraine. tim morrison, a top white house adviser now the fifth person under oath to back up allegations of a deal military aid to ukraine in exchange for dirt on trump's political enemies, something the president has denied over and over again. >> no quid pro quo. >> no quid pro quo. >> no quid pro quo. no quid pro quo. no quid pro quo. >> well, tonight, white house officials i've spoken with are downplaying the quid pro quo part of the testimony and honing in on two other key parts of that testimony that they view as a win, that the transcript was a fair and accurate representation of president trump's phone call with the ukrainian president and that he didn't think there was anything wrong with the call. morrison's testimony is significant for a number of

reasons. he was listening in on trump's controversial call on july 25th with the ukraine's president and he also had direct conversations with president trump. he's also been seen as a supporter of the president and he's a boldened ally making it hard for the white house that he's part of the deep state. kaitlan, it has certainly been a consequential day and what is the the white house saying about the testimony? >> some people thea the white house are viewing what happened today, this testimony, what they're learning about it, at least is positive for them because it doesn't seem that tim morrison really drew any conclusions about the president's involvement in holding up this military aid, of course, that's what democrats are trying to get to the bottom of, but the white house doesn't have anyone present in the room and instead they're relying on press reports and what republicans emerging from the room are saying. there are other parts that we learned that are not so redeeming from the white house including that he largely backed up what bill taylor, the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine said

when he testified which he went on at length about this desire for from u.s. officials to withhold that military aid in exchange for an investigation into joe biden's son and the energy board and those are questions to be determined and they are watching tim morrison closely because he is one of the officials who as you noted interacted the most with the president, speaking with the president directly and working in the white house for some time and they couldn't essentially argue that he was some bureaucrat that was against the president working inside the administration and he was someone who was brought on by john bolton. so those are the questions here that the white house is still waiting to hear more about and this comes after the house took the first formal votes on impeachment and whether or not they start to move into the open is something that the white house is paying attention to, because if someone like tim morrison they feels like testifying in public would be

helpful for them, that is something and there are a slew of other people who have testified on capitol hill with things that have not been good or redeeming for the white house. >> kaitlan collins from the white house, thank you so much for that. >> and out front tonight, democratic congressman, peter welch of vermont. he's a member of the intelligence and oversight committee and thank you for coming on, congressman. you sat in on morrison's deposition. you just heard my reporting that the white house thinks basically morrison's deposition was an overall win for them. was it? >> it's hard to see how they interpret it that way. he really confirmed the facts of what has been testified to by people like ambassador taylor. you know, what's happening here is it's coming into focus with great clarity what the president did. he made the call. he requested a favor. the favor was to dig up dirt and the leverage that the president used was to withhold national security aid to resist the

russians. now some on his side like mitch mcconnell and others are saying that there's nothing wrong with that. the president says that's perfect, but what we're talking about now with clarity is that the president did something that is against the law. we, as federal officials, cannot request that a foreign power get involved in our campaigns and that's what the president did. so all of us are going have to make the judgment, but the spin is going to -- it's going to keep coming. >> your republican colleagues, they're downplaying the quid pro quo. they say it's based on second-hand information from the u.n. ambassador gordon sondland that all of this testimony is secondhand and it's not coming from the president directly to the person testifying and here's republican congressman mark meadows. >> mr. morrison's testimony is very damaging to the democrat narrative and that's why you haven't seen from my democrat

colleagues today. >> and one of the big things they're seizing on, of course, morrison said that the transcript was a fair representation of the call and that he wasn't concerned about the contents of the call in terms of it being legally problematic. does that help the republicans' case and the white house case? >> well, that is the white house case. he released a transcript where he asked for a favor. he had mick mulvaney go out and say there was a quid pro quo. they withheld that national security assistance. their conclusion which is self-serving and just disregards the law is that's perfect, that's fine and that's what their partisan points of view is, but there is a law and there are facts that are really not in dispute, and if you have been careful as you have been, all of us, you notice that the republicans are not condoning the conduct, and they're not saying anything about the conduct. so it's a pretty weak defense

going after the character of the various witnesses and then really not acknowledging what the president himself said he did. >> we also learned that the case will not be resolved until december 10th. are you going to wait for the courts to resolve this? >> we can't wait for the courts. we have to keep moving. there are two questions that are profoundly important to the american people. one is the president above the law and the facts that i've laid out each one of us is going to have to make a judgement about that, and then second, is congress going to stand up for the constitutional principle of separation of powers in that we have equal branches of government to provide checks and balances? it's been a total stonewall from the trump administration and they're doing something that neither nixon nor clinton did of repudiating the authority of congress to even have an inquiry, and those are the two issues and the president, is he

above the law in co-equal branches. >> and republicans still argue that even with today's vote there are still issues with the process that there will be closed-door testimony and i want to go back to charles copperman and john bolton because he has been asked to testify and that attorney saying bolton will not voluntarily testify and are you going to subpoena bolton and if so, when? >> the people who come forward like ambassador taylor received instructions from the white house and the state department and the state department did not come in, but they received legally valid subpoena from the house and they responded. now bolton may not do that so we'll have to do two things. >> are you going to subpoena him? and when will that happen, if so? >> i believe so, but that will be up to chairman schiff and we'll go to subpoena if they don't agree to come voluntarily.

>> i have to ask you, no republicans votesed for the measure while two decmocrats voted against it. was this a failure of your party's leadership? >> absolutely not. every member -- this is a very important vote. you have to vote your conscience and you have two colleagues who weren't there yet, but this is an enormous repudiation. i mean, can you imagine you're the president of the united states and it gets to this point and a lot of what happens is a result from the information that we received from the president himself who released that readout of his telephone call where he was shaking down a foreign lead tore get assistance in his campaign? >> that's pretty appalling conduct. >> all right. thank you so much, congressman welch. we appreciate you coming on. >> and out front next, more on today's crucial testimony. who told morrison to steer clear of rudy giuliani and why? plus the white house says it doesn't want to talk publicly about its impeachment strategy.

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breaking news. stay away from rudy giuliani. that was the message that tim morrison, trump's top adviser on russia and europe told lawmakers he received loud and clear. a source familiar with morrison's testimony telling cnn that he said he was advised by former white house official fiona hill to stay away from the parallel ukraine policy that giuliani was pushing for. now, remember, it was hill who also testified that former national security adviser john bolton referred to giuliani's efforts in ukraine as a, quote, drug deal. out front now former nixon white house counsel john dean and joe lockhart who was president clinton's secretary during his impeachment investigation and

nia malika henderson and greg brower. thank you all for coming on. a lot to discuss here. john, i'm going go to you first because this was a very strong warning based on this testimony to avoid rudy giuliani. we also have not seen giuliani out on tv defending the president like he has in the past. what does that say to you? >> it shows a sudden bit of wisdom in the white house to not have rudy out there. he was causing them more problems than he was solving. i think that they got the message that this wasn't healthy, and he's clearly tainted right now, and i don't think that's over and it will get worse before it gets better, so they're stepping back. >> does it also, in a way, kind of emphasize to you, greg, this notion that, you know, the president was relying on his outside attorney over his own nsc officials who are kind of warning each other internally like, hey, don't deal with this outsider. >> right. that the president is leaning on

for a policy essentially. >> not only is it generally a bad idea for the president to rely on an outsider like this to rely on foreign policy, but this particular outsider can pose problems down the road. >> morrison testified he didn't see anything legally problematic about it. do you share that view? >> i'm not sure about that and there's a lot of spin going on. none of us was in the room for that testimony by mr. morrison today, but what is reported that mr. morrison made it clear to the committee that he had a sinking feeling about the apparent quid pro quo deal when he kind of put it all together and then he went to national security council lawyers at least a couple of times to talk about it. i'm want sure why he would be going to nsc lawyers to talk about this issue if he didn't think there was a potential legal problem. >> our reporting was his concern was more about the leaking out of it and the polarized washington and the legal aspects of it.

this is what bill taylor, nia, had testified to saying that morrison told him he had a sinking feeling about learning about this conversation from ambassador sondland, according to mr. morrison president trump told ambassador sondland that he was not asking for quid pro quo, but president trump did insist that president zelensky go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations on biden and the 2016 election interference and that president zelensky should want to do this himself. >> morrison is the latest official to corroborate this account of a quid pro quo. >> it's significant. every day is significant out of these depositions and what you see is the story that was essentially hinted at when the president released this memo of the transcript and your memo of the phone call where he says at one point that phone call where he says to president zelensky i would like you to do us a favor right after there is a

discussion of military aid and this is why i think every day has been damaging for this president, because there is no point and there is nothing that's coming out of these hearings or in these depositions that is exculpatory for the president, right? there is no one testifying that says, listen, none of this happened and there was no quid pro quo. the president would never, ever do this, he has a sort of line that he would not cross and that's why you see not necessarily a focus the substance out of the depositions and a sort of confidence from the democrats that they have a case they're building on and they'll have more folks coming behind closed doors and they have a case that keeps building on prior testimony and everyone seems to be corroborating this picture of a quid pro quo from this president. >> there is not as much emphasis on the whistle-blower since there has been more and more corroboration of the witness testimonies of that complaint and white house officials i speak to say, look, this is all

secondhand information and this is what sondland told morrison in this case of today and it wasn't coming directly from the president and sondland himself didn't believe it was quid pro quo. is that a sufficient argument in your view? >> i don't think so. in fact, that's exactly what these depositions is addressing. it is no longer secondhand. they are systematically and methodically going through the people who it was first-hand information for and this gentleman, mr. morrison, is the nsc's point person. remember, the nsc is designed to coordinate through the department and the pentagon, and these are the people who talked to everyone else in the government and coordinate policy. so it is first hand and picking up on nia's point, and i think it's not like you would expect someone to say this didn't happen and these calls didn't happen. we know they happened and you would expect if there was some innocent explanation that there would be an alternative theory

is no, no, no. it's not that, it's this and all you hear is attacks on the process, so i think, again, the depositions are creating this record that will go public very soon that paints a damning picture of the president. >> and the president and the white house, they're looking to seize on anything they can to bolster what the president has said. as we know president trump has insisted for weeks there was nothing wrong with that phone call with zellen skensky. >> the call was ablusolutely perfect. >> a made not a good call, a perfect call. did you know it was going to be the subject of the scrutiny because the way you express yourself, this is like a perfect call. >> so the white house is seizing on what morrison said today, nia, that, you know, that morrison did not believe there was anything problematic legally about that call.

do you think that they will continue that this will just basically allow the president to continue to say that? >> i think that's right, and of course, what we know about impeachment is you don't necessarily have to do anything illegal, right? there are high crimes and misdemeanor and the high crime coming from someone in office, you know, and so if you were a democrat you were being looking at the idea of abuse of power and the idea of obstruction of congress and them not cooperating as possible articles of impeachment. sure, the white house is looking for everything they can. anyone out there who says this call was okay obviously, you had today morrison saying he didn't think it was illegal, but that doesn't really matter in terms was what you can bring forward and in terms of the impeachment articles. >> thank you very much for sharing your insights. i appreciate it and the partisan showdown over today's impeachment hearing. >> so far we've seen damning evidence. >> there's nothing compelling.

>> plus trump continuing to defend his call with ukraine. >>. >> the transcript of the call is a perfect and totally appropriate document. >> a republican congressman who said that call was, quote, not okay responds. with advil, you have power over pain, so the whole world looks different. the unbeatable strength of advil. what pain?

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breaking news, the house voting to formalize their impeachment inquiry against president trump. the final tally was 232 to 196. no republicans voting in favor of it and two democrats voting against it.

after the vote, a literal split screen with democrats and republicans holding dueling news conferences and what we heard sounded like lawmakers living in alternate universes. >> this is a solemn day in the history of our country when the president's misconduct has compelled us to continue to move forward with an impeachment inquiry. >> it is a sad day, it really is for this country, what the democrats have put our nation through, for now almost four years. >> so far we've seen damning evidence that the president abused his power. >> in all the hearings there's nothing compelling, nothing overwhelming. >> so, joe, everyone's back with me, i should note. joe, i want to go to you first to get your perspective. zero republicans defected today. what does that tell you? >> i don't think it means as much as a lot of people are saying. this was in effect, a process vote and it was very easy for republicans who don't control

the process to say they don't like it. they'd like to share power with the democrat, but the democrats have the power. this vote didn't deal with the underlying actions of the president and his abuse of power. so i think that the next vote is the hard one and the group that i would look at is the 25 to 30 republicans who are retiring who don't have to face the voters again. i think they'll have a much tougher time looking at that saying hey, it's okay what the president did. i don't see anything wrong with it because privately they do see something wrong with it and i don't read too much into it today. >> what do you think, nia? >> i think we heard in covering this president and i know you have in talking to republicans, there are always private concerns, right, about the president's behavior. they have very rarely made those concerns they've had about the president public because they fear retribution from this president, and they fear him

tearing him down on twitter and jeff flake who is no longer in the senate because he disappeared with the way the president was conducting himself in office. i think republicans are completely controlled by donald trump in so many ways. they have been his cheerleaders. they have been his enablers and his protectors and defenders and we will see if that continues. you feel like someone like will herd, right? who is actually retiring and joe makes the point that the real work comes later. you feel like if you're retiring don't you feel that you could vote on the democrats on this to say let's at least explore what the deal is and in some ways it's emblematic where the republicans have been with this president which is in lockstep. >> i agree with that, and to joe's point the vote wasn't that surprising more or less along party lines and here is the reality, i think. while there's not a single democrat who voted yes because he or she felt they had to to vote with the party, i think

they all feel as though an impeachment inquiry should go forward. there are a whole bunch of republicans who voted no only because it was a party vote who amongst themselves believe there is a lot to investigate here and it should go forward. they just don't want to go on the record yet. you saw one republican do that a couple of weeks ago and he got a lot of flack about it, and he got it ever since and there are a lot of nervous republicans who think there should be a fulsome inquiry and they're just not prepared to go out on a limb to say that. >> there are two democrats who defected and didn't vote in favor of it which is something the white house is seizing on today. and the white house republicans are repeatedly going after adam schiff and the top republican on the house judiciary committee doug collins had this message today for schiff.

here's my challenge to mr. schiff, you want to be ken starr? be ken starr. come to the judiciary committee, be the first witness and take every question asked of you. starting with your own involvement with the whistle-blower. folks, this ain't over. get ready. the cloud that is dropping will be dropping on their heads. >> so you see the gop is clearly trying to make schiff the bogeyman here. can it work, do you think? >> i doubt it's going to work. it's certainly not going to work with the democrats who have great respect for schiff. he's been a good chairman. he's a highly trained harvard grad lawyer and he was a prosecutor. he knows his ways around the hill and he's assembling a very strong case. it doesn't surprise me that the republicans are trying to point the finger and make him the bad guy. it's not going to work, though. the other thing, pam, i would just like to add, i think that

was a whip vote for the republicans and if you look back historically, nixon's vote to start that impeachment proceeding was 410-4 with about 180 republicans voting to go ahead with the proceedings and that was considered a vote of conscience back then and the leadership is very worried about this president. with nixon he thought they might actually be able to meet the charges. >> joe, you know this so well. so much about what is playing out right now is public opinion, trying to sway the voters. it's all about messaging. here's what press secretary stephanie grisham said today about the white house game plan going forward after this vote. >> i don't think i want to get into the strategy of what the legal strategy will be going forward until we learn kind of what the ground rules are. the demes have been really good at continuously moving the goalpost on that, so i don't want to get into any of our

strategy just yet. >> so the white house still hasn't added a rapid response team yet and it's working on it and the white house source told me today that look, we were disorganized in the beginning. do you think they lost too much precious time? >> i think there's been too much emphasis on whether they have a war room or a strategy. they do have a strategy and it's donald trump. he sets the tone and makes the statements. many of them know that the best thing to do is to have trump step aside and focus issues governing and leave this alone, but trump's not going to do that. so what they do is they sort of try to fill in behind him as he changes his mind and you know, gets angry and tweets in the morning and late at night. so that's not, you know, so again, i don't think it's whether they're disorganized or not. they just have a problem with their principal who is undisciplined and

self-indulgent. >> i asked one white house official says who is in charge of the communication, and they said president trump is. here's how they're trying to spin things. here is an ad that spent seven figures on the air during the world series game last night. >> democrats would rather focus impeachment and phony investigations ignoring the real issues, but that's not stopping donald trump. he's no mr. nice guy, but sometimes it takes a donald trump to change washington. >> nia, administration sources says that's the message we're banking on, while we're working for you in washington, democrats are focused on what they view as a sham impeachment proceeding. >> it's not a bad strategy and it's complicated by the fact that donald trump isn't as good at compartmentalizing was, this was bill clinton's message, as well, that he was focused on the business of american people and american families and republicans were distracted with

monica lewinsky and he could carry that message because of who he was. donald trump is a different sort of politician. he makes that clear in that ad there, he is obsessed with this investigation. he was tweeting about it. he's all over the place sort of talking about it, so i think that is going to be hard for him to maintain that, but i think it was a very effective ad and sort of surprising and we were all watching the nats game. >> because it was early. >> i think it's the earliest a general election campaign we've seen so yeah, they're going to try to put that out there and you'll have nancy pelosi and the democrats and you saw her in the press conference today, we are doing impeachment and also how do you lower drug prices and trade deals. >> that's the reality, whether you agree with the bills or don't agree with the bill, the house has pushed out past a lot of legislation, sense it over to the senate where it's just sitting there. so it's really -- you really can't say the house isn't legislating while at the same time doing the impeachment. they have been. >> quickly, john, final word to

you. >> i think the curtain is just going up right now for what's going to be a fairly protected play. >> yep. all right and we will be watching it every step of the way. thank you so much. >> out front next, republican congressman mike turner said trump's call with the ukrainian president was, quote, not okay, but what is he prepared to do about it? >> congressman turner is my guest. plus major back-to-back court cases could determine who must testify in the impeachment probe. we'll take you inside that courtroom. ♪ don't get mad, put those years to work with e*trade. on a scale of one to five? one to five? it's more like five million. there's everything from happy to extremely happy. there's also angry. i'm really angry clive! actually, really angry.

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breaking news. the white house is breaking up its outreach to senate republicans ahead of a likely impeachment trial. today a number of key senate republicans huddling with the president at the white house to talk strategy, this after criticism that the white house paid too little attention to the president's defenders in the house. ep republicans there declaring a lack of guidance in the impeachment. it has aren't brought on any new lawyers to handle the legal strategy. many republicans and advisers remain deeply frustrated with the way the white house is handling the entire situation. out front tonight republican congressman mike turner. he sits on the house intelligence committee. thanks for coming. >> thanks, pamela.

>> i want to start with that the frustration among white house aides and advisers that the president hasn't allowed his team to form an adequate defense on impeachment. do you think that the white house has made a mistake here by not having a more robust legal and communications team in place by now? >> part of the travesty for today it was certainly evidenced by the panel that you just had as you had people on your show who were talking about the testimony that was happening today, but yet not one person saw it. all these hearings are happening in secret. adam schiff is making certain that no one sees what occurs down there. i can tell you one thing, though. i did sit in the hearing and tim morrison did not say there was quid pro quo even though a lot of your panelists seem to believe that they did. i think that certainly was adam schiff's intention was to put the white house on a disadvantage just as you're at a disadvantage because no one other than those on the intelligence committee know what's happening down in that room and that's what i think is unfortunate because the american

public deserved to see this. they deserved to know and you deserve to know. when you have a panel that's doing an analysis you should have witnessed what tim morrison was saying. >> part of what was saying moving forward there will be more public hearings. >> it's not really guaranteed. the resolution says he can have public hearings and he could have had public hearings before and there are things in it that are troubling and for example, it says that the ranking member wants to question the witness and they can only ask staff and i can't understand why they wouldn't let other members of congress, why they would limit members of congress' questions who they would call. >> the white house, it's not their house because this is all closed-door testimony and -- do you think that they should have a more robust communication than legal team? >> i think certainly as this evolves they will and they're going to have to, but even today

most of what you're reporting on is speculation. but i can tell you this -- >> a lot of this does come from his opening statement as well that was released where he does say look, this transcript was a fair and accurate representation. i didn't think it was legally problem attic though he was concerned it would be negative for the white house if it was leaked out. he didn't say that there was quid pro quo, but the reporting is that he was told by sondland that the president would release that military aid in exchange for ukraine announcing the investigation to biden, is that not accurate? >> first off. you don't have to say something is quid pro quo for it to be quid pro quo, in other words. >> you should have seen this today. this should have been open to all of the public. one thing that is also important and i am very concerned about moving forward. volker and morrison both have first-hand knowledge of what was going on and what occurred. a lot of other people vindman and taylor are talking about in

their testimony and you see that in the opening statements that have been released and things that they heard or other people that they talked to. i'm very concerned that we could be in a situation where adam schiff decides to call forward those who talked to other people instead of those people who can tell us directly what they actually know. >> vindman was on the call. >> he testified on things that he had no direct knowledge of and those are things that tim morrison -- he reported to tim morrison. he was a detainee and he should have been testifying in public today. >> vindman did have knowledge. he didn't interact with the president like a tim morrison did, but vindman did. >> remember, this is about the president, right? if you -- if you have ambassador kurt volker and tim morrison at the national security council and you have the president of the united states and the president of ukraine and we're all getting their statements and testimony. those who were on the outside who have heard from others, who

have had conversations with people about what they think or believe or might feel really aren't important. >> and i know that that is something that the white house officials speak to that hone in on the second-hand information and it's hearsay and you have the president who continues to say that it was the perfect phone call. in fact, he just said it today in a radio interview and here's what he said. >> the transcript of the -- of the call that i have with the ukrainian president is a perfect and totally appropriate document. you have said that this call was not okay. >> i don't agree to that. >> why? do you wish the president would stop saying that? >> there is a difference between okay and impeachable. take the vote today. there was a vote today for impeachment proceedings by a number of people who already were on record to impeach the president before this call even happened. so today was a political vote. this was a political impeachment. >> the republicans were asking for more transparency in the

process. >> all it says -- isn't that what you guys wanted? >> all it says is that it can't have public hearings and it doesn't require that tomorrow you get to read tim morrison's testimony and i believe that tim morrison's testimony was devastating for them and if you'd have that you would be surprised as to what the contrast is between what people with actual knowledge are saying and those that are speculating. >> i have to ask you, now that the inquiry is under way, are you open to it proceeding and are you open to voting for impeachment if it goes that way for you? >> i mean, again, i have already sat through hearings and read transcripts and there is not one thing in these hearings and transcripts and i can't tell you what people said, but i can tell you what people didn't say. no one has walked in saying i have direct knowledge that an official with authority in the united states government under the direction of the president of the united states told the ukraine that they must undertake the investigation of the bidens in the 2016 elections or the

burisma or their aid will not be released. >> if that is revealed is that enough -- >> what about mick mulvaney saying it from the podium at the white house saying it was that. >> he said a portion of that and he didn't say all that and then he did walk it back, but the issue is -- remember the whistle-blower came forward and they didn't say and the whistle-blower didn't say that there was this quid pro quo and the aid and these investigations. they said there was quid pro quo that you must dig up dirt on my opponent and there was no direct knowledge of the things, and these are people that we've had depositions for and it's not changed other than the testimony that you've read of the telephone call as to how it was reported. >> the testimony has largely backed up what the whistle-blower has said. >> you don't know that. you haven't seen any of it. >> we've seen many of the opening statement. we sautee lorw taylor's opening

statement. >> i would encourage you to do the same, i believe, i was told, i felt on. >> didn't morrison back up what he said in his testimony? i did tell taylor that. >> there were portions that related specifically to conversations with tim morrison where tim morrison did say that i backed it up and others said he's not and tim morrison did not back up that there was quid pro quo with the ukraine and either funding or a meeting with the president of the united states. >> did tim morrison say that sondland told him that the president said he would release the funding if the ukraine announces his investigation? >> i can't tell you what he did say, and i can tell you what he didn't say, and he didn't say any of those things that have been reported and here's the point that i make a point to frequently which i think is kind of important. it's not proper. it's illegal and we're not permitted to go into a classified hearing or a confidential deposition and walk out and tell you what happened, but it is not against the law for people to come out and lie

to you and the reports that you're getting are a lot of people that are misrepresenting for their own purposes what's happened behind closed doors and i assure you what was happening behind closed doors, it would not be happening behind closed doors. >> you would happen if all of them would have been open. >> thank you very much, congressman. >> out front next, breaking news about when we may learn the fate of a key impeachment witness and whether or not they'll be forced to testify. plus, katie hill of rising star and the democratic party resigns after explicit photos surface and she's taken a few parting shots on her way out. >> i am leaving now because of a double standard. i am leaving because i no longer want to be used as a bargaining chip. not even our competitor's best battery

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former u.s. attorney elie honig is "outfront" with us. he sat in on both hearings today. in neither case did a judge rule, but that doesn't mean what happened today was significant in terms of what could happen with witnesses testifying. i want to start with the former white house counsel don mcgahn's case. he was subpoenaed by house democrats in april. he ignored demands to appear. what did the judge in this case signal? >> it was so interesting to see fist of all, pam. it was like battle of the branches in action. on the right-hand side, you had a team of lawyers for the house, for the congress. and on the left-hand side, you had a team of lawyers for doj, the executive branch, all happening within the judicial branch. the judge asked a lot of pointed questions about the white house doj's theory of absolute immunity. essentially her line of questioning was how can you maintain this position that no executive branch official ever has to answer if the president says no? and candidly doj lawyers had a hard time answering that. and the judge seemed pretty skeptical of their position. if i had to forecast this, i think the judge is going to come down on congress' side on this one. >> wow. so that would mean that mcgahn

would -- >> yes, but there is a next level, right? i think the judge's ruling is going to be yes, don mcgahn, you must testify, but the white house will immediately go to the court of appeals. >> and will appeal it. but what happened today with mcgahn has a lot to do with what's going on with cooperman. it's similar in that cooperman wants the case to decide if he should comply with the subpoena and the impeachment proceeding. the next hearing we've learned is scheduled for december 10th. how is that going to impact the timeline for impeachment and what happens in that? >> here is just how related it is. at the beginning of the mcgahn team both legal teams said your honor, don't be offended if half of our legal team is going down the hall to the cooperman. here is how further related it is. john bolton came up and the judge said whatever happens with cooperman is likely going to happen with john bolton as well. he said that explicitly on the record. so the stakes here really high. but the timeline is really difficult, as you said, pam. even when a court moves as fast as it can as it is here with cooperman, we're still not going back until december 10th, and

there is not going to be a ruling on december 10th. even when courts are moving as fast as they can, it may not be fast enough for impeachment. >> but let me ask you this quickly. if the judge rules that the absolute immunity argument doesn't hold up, that mcgahn has to testify, what would that mean if that happens before december 10th? what would that mean for cooperman and bolton? >> right. it's going to make a big difference to what happens to cooperman and bolton. a and the two judges were referring to what was going on down the hall. it's all related. if the judge rules mcgahn has to testify, that is going the help congress' case on getting cooperman and perhaps bolton to testify as well. a lot of dominos are falling here. >> the white house was watching what was happening today very closely. elie honig, thanks so much. >> thank you. up next, refusing to leave quietly. a fiery farewell speech from a congresswoman amid a sex scandal. >> hiding away and disappearing would be 2 one unforgivable season. the magic moment. congress really democratized wall street...

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once rising star democratic representative katie hill of california gave her final speech to congress on the house floor today, and she did not hold back. hill resigned amid an ethics probe into allegations about an improper relationship with a staffer complicated by an ugly divorce and compromising photos. listen to just some of her parting shots. >> i am leaving now because of a double standard. i am leaving because i no longer want to be used as a bargaining chip. i'm leaving because i didn't want to be peddled by papers and blogs and website, used by shameless operatives for the dirtiest gutter politics i've ever seen. i'm leaving because there is only one investigation that deserves the attention of this country, and that's the one that we voted on today. i am leaving, but we have men who have been credibly accused of intentional acts of sexual violence and remain in boardrooms, on the supreme court, in this very body, and

worst of all, in the oval office. so the fight goes on. to create the change that every woman and girl in this country deserves, yet a man who brags about his sexual predation, who has had dozens of women come forward to accuse him of sexual assault, who pushes policies that are uniquely harmful to women who has filled the courts with judges who proudly rule to deprive women of the most fundamental right to control their own bodies sits in the highest office of the land. and so today, as my last vote, i voted on impeachment proceedings. not just because of corruption, obstruction of justice, or gross misconduct, but because of the deepest abuse of power, including the abuse of power over women. >> well, house speaker nancy pelosi says hill is among, quote, countless women across america americans have been subjected to this type of harassment and abuse, and hill

has acknowledged mistakes and apologized to supporters. thank you so much for joining us on this halloween. don't forget, you can watch "outfront" any time, anywhere on cnn go. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. for only the fourth time many this country's history, impeachment proceedings against an american president are under way. just three other presidents have faced this formally out in the open. andrew johnson, richard nixon and bill clinton. today donald j. trump joined that list. but whatever you may believe about this president, wherever you stand politically, however you view the evidence so far, there is no overstating the significance of the moment itself. that's because those two buildings you see there, which have seen and made an embody so much history between them are about to make more. what happened today in one chamber of the bigger of the two has set the stage for so much yet to come. tonight we will of course bring you reporting on the testimony today of a former senior white house official who despite saying he did not believe what

he saw was