television on! >> hbo did a lot of its best work when it was bending a genre. take something that's familiar and give it some chili pepper. >> advertising is based on one thing, happiness. >> is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? >> not if there was a funny idea. >> what is wrong with you? >> there's so much different

storytelling and so many different stories being told about so many different people. >> i don't think dramatic series television has ever been stronger. >> there's no longer this theory of what popular entertainment must be. >> incoming! >> who are the heroes? the people who watch this show. ♪ ♪

this is the week when the major broadcast networks unveil their fall lineup of shows. and every executive in hollywood knows how well "the sopranos" is doing on cable, which is a network problem. >> i think hbo altered everything for this reason alone, is there were no commercials. >> we are dependent on sponsors. there's so much we can do in terms of language, in terms of violence, and in terms of sex. >> to a large degree, a lot of executives were just sanding off the edges of what was interesting. >> i think hbo is looking at the world and going, okay, how can we matter? for quite a long time, movies and boxing were the bread and butter of hbo. >> people watch a show because you're partly an [ bleep ]. >> i think what we learned through shows like "the larry sanders show" or "oz" is that we could do serious television.

>> there's something in the air. and it ain't love. >> "oz" was cutting edge in what it was willing to share with the audience. >> hit me. hit me! hit me in the face, brother. >> complicated characters, complicated issues. and the way it was presented was so unique. >> sentence, nine years. up for parole in six. >> what they were doing at hbo was exactly what the network wasn't doing. they were breaking barriers. you get to "the sopranos" and all of a sudden, the villain is the hero. >> have some eggplant. >> i told you. i'm not hungry. >> now you won't even accept food from your own mother. >> "the sopranos" was david chase's invention about this mob family, something that people hadn't seen before. the idea that a mobster is seeing a therapist. >> whatever happened to gary cooper? the strong, silent type.

that was an american. he wasn't in touch with his feelings. he just did what he had to do. see, what they didn't know is once they got gary cooper in touch with his feelings, they didn't wouldn't be able to shut him up. and then it's dysfunction this, dysfunction that. dysfunction fun-gu. >> you have strong feelings about this. >> every decade, you get somebody like peter falk as columbo or carroll o'connor as archie bunker. someone you can't imagine anyone else afterwards. james gandolfini is that as tony soprano. >> i think it's supposed to be a mafia story. but it's like i said -- >> it's not everyday life. >> did you know that an italian invented the telephone? >> alexander graham bell is italian? >> you see? you see what i'm talking -- antonio maiucci invented the telephone and he got robbed. everybody knows that. >> who invented the mafia? >> what? >> "the sopranos" took the mystery out of being a mobster. ♪ i'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ ♪ oh, yeah

>> and it was somehow more mundane than we guessed it would be and yet every bit as riveting as "the godfather." >> you were like a brother to me. to all of us. >> the debate raged at hbo about whether you could have a guy like this as your lead. and david chase was adamant that you have to, this is who he is, and he was right. >> can you assure me that tony soprano isn't going to become a sensitive, nurturing, mellowing man? >> yes. >> oh, good. >> oh, my god. >> it's all right. i'll be home in a couple of hours. don't worry. >> i'm graduating tomorrow. >> carmela was a wife and a mother. i think first and foremost. i think as long as she kept going to church, she felt like all right, i'm taking care of my soul. >> where is the rest of the

money? >> it's everywhere. >> she goes home to her husband who has blood on him. there's no way to reconcile the two things. >> towards the end, when their marriage is falling apart -- >> i used to [ bleep ] your husband. >> you have made a fool of me for years with these whores. >> her performance in that fight is stunningly good. >> because she's jealous! let go of me! >> it mattered to people what this couple was going through. and i remember feeling a real sense of responsibility about that and giving the weight to the scene that it deserves. >> what? >> you know what i don't understand, tony? what does she have that i don't have? >> suddenly here is this tv show that everyone is talking about, but you have to pay to watch it. you know, that's how good "the sopranos" was. people were paying just to see that show. >> "the sopranos" came along and

completely re-established what the bar was. i honestly couldn't quite believe it, that television was communicating something that you might only see in the darkest moments and accurate moments in cinema. >> you look at the year that "american beauty" won the oscar, which is also the year that "the sopranos" debuted. almost immediately after that, the two mediums diverged. >> i know what i must do. i'm afraid to do it. >> movies became much more focused on big tentpole things that could bring in as much of an audience as you possibly can. meanwhile, tv, which had always been a big tent medium, started going smaller and more interior and saying, all right, we want to tell stories for grownups that maybe don't get the biggest audience but get a passionate one.

♪ i'll be home for christmas >> i had an idea of doing a show about death. >> are you smoking? >> no. >> yes, you are. i heard you. >> i'm not. no, i'm not. >> look, forget you'll give yourself cancer and die a slow and horrible death. you should not be stinking up that new hearse. >> i met with carolyn and she said, i'd like to do a show about a family that runs a funeral home. something went click. what a good idea. >> i'm quitting right now. i'll see you tonight. ♪ i'll be home for christmas >> alan ball comes up with a show with a perfect structure. each episode starts with the death of a character and then that character's death is dealt with in a local family funeral

home mortuary. >> excuse me. >> this was one of my first -- maybe it was my first binge show, which was long enough ago that it was all on somebody had recorded it on vcr. >> have you been watching mrs. romano? >> yeah. i've been watching her all night. are you thinking what i'm thinking? >> casket climber. >> i want to go with you! >> mrs. romano! mrs. romano! >> there's a whole level of something going on on television. it was grittier than most shows you had seen before, and yet something magical about it. >> i think what our strategy at hbo was in terms of audiences, not everybody has to watch a show.

but if we have different shows for different people, there is something that makes you want to come back and sign up month after month. maybe you don't watch "sex and the city" but you watch "entourage." >> "entourage" was originally based on mark wahlberg's life. and the appeal of the show is not so much about show business. it was these four guys who were lifelong friends who could [ bleep ] with each other and say horrible things to each other but be tight and be good friends. >> they want to throw 4 million at you. >> you're kidding. >> are you smiling? >> yeah, i'm smiling. >> you get me smiling. you got my balls tingling, man. do they drive that way in tiananmen square, bitch? >> ari gold became the breakout character, willing to be ruthless, yet also a family man with a line in the sand and you don't really know where that line in the sand is, which makes him a morally much more interesting character. >> i read an article in "the times." "the new york times," not like the [ bleep ] they have out here. >> you read "the times"? >> no. >> you read "the new republic."

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who could have possibly guessed? a show about a bunch of backstabbing people with body odor on an island off borneo would become the hit of the summer. >> "survivor" was really the

first truly competitive format. >> go! >> i started to really understand what the show was going to be about the first 20 minutes into day one. >> we'll see what we've got. >> there might be a blowtorch in there. >> we need a bathroom. >> are you guys all done talking? >> richard hatch was sitting in a tree, lecturing about what they should do as their group. >> nobody is working toward a particular goal. not the silly little stuff about who is going to sleep where, what are we going to do, but why are we here. >> and underneath him was a woman, sue hawk, who was a truck driver. >> the corporate world ain't going to work in the bush. >> that was the show. >> he walked around naked quite a bit. i think it probably bugged some of the guys. >> whatever it takes to win here is the point. it's a game. call it machiavellian, sure. >> we had no idea that richard hatch would be the best thing to ever happen to "survivor." >> all around the country,

people were on the edge of their seats, waiting for the final vote to be announced. >> the winner of the first "survivor" competition is -- [ cheers ] >> "survivor" sort of legitimized the genre. ♪ simon fuller came into my office. his vision was one long audition. ♪ like a virgin touched for the very first time ♪ >> i've never, ever heard anything like that in my life. ♪ she bangs she bangs ♪ i'm wasted by the way she -- >> thank you, thank you. [ unintelligible singing ] >> what was that? that is what you think we're looking for? >> the network was saying, we don't think we can put simon on the promos. >> no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> he'll scare little girls and we think that's our audience. >> one of worst auditions i ever heard in my life.

>> i'm like, well, that's the whole show. so you know, without him it's not going to work. and it was a big fight internally. and of course we got him on and of course that's what sparked the show. >> well, here they are. the judges have made their choices. now, america, it's all up to you. >> "american idol" reunited the family audience in front of the tv. ♪ r-e-s-p-ec-t ♪ find out what it means to me >> 9-year-olds to 90-year-olds could root for somebody on "american idol." it's not like it hadn't been done before. but the way the producers of these shows could manipulate drama, the way they could find stories, that was the core of making those shows successful. >> this is the weakest romance i've ever seen. this romance is pathetic. was there a romance? >> well, i think we just decided we were meant to be very close friends. >> very close friends. >> i've had some very close friends too. >> me too. >> it cost me a lot of money, i'll tell you that.

>> "the apprentice" has its lasting effect even today. donald trump becomes a star. >> you're fired. >> all of it kind of reality show fake. people who worked on it have come forward and said, you know, we kind of made the whole thing up. and yet it sells. then there's just this explosion. >> you interested in tattoos? weight loss? plastic surgery? >> breast augmentation, tummy tuck, facial surgery. >> hoarders? substance abuse? flipping your house? that's a big one. there's literally a reality show for everyone now. >> the networks would be out of business without reality tv. if you had to fill 40 hours of television with scripted shows, it would cost you an arm and a leg. you would be out of business because those scripted shows most likely will do no better and probably worse than the reality show did.

>> aimed at gay viewers and women. so you have "queer eye for the straight guy" and "project runway." >> this is a search for the next big fashion designer. >> "project runway" was not an instantaneous hit. we sort of had this crisis, is anyone going to want to sit around watching people sew? >> i am feeling the race against time now, yes. >> bravo played three or four episodes over the christmas holidays. and all of a sudden it just caught on like wildfire. >> make it work. >> people have come into "runway" and "top chef" and they know that this can change their lives. >> one of you is about to win the title of "top chef." >> rock and roll! >> then we get the osbornes. and it was fun. the whole idea of the guy who bit the heads off of bats being domestic and his wife and his teenage kids. >> please do not get drunk or get stoned tonight. >> that sort of sparks this moment of we can put celebrities

on tv and just let them do what they do. >> i've always heard that people hang out at walmart. >> why? what is walmart? [ crickets ] is it like they sell wall stuff? >> no. >> what is it? >> it's like, uh -- >> of course that reaches its peak, or nadir, depending on your opinion, with "the kardashians." >> i hate you all. >> welcome to my family. >> there's something about watching someone maybe slightly like yourself but more obnoxious. >> you're so evil. >> there's a lot of baggage that comes with us. but it's like louis vuitton baggage. you always want it. >> or they're, you know, more of a disaster. >> prostitution whore, you got engaged 19 times, you [ bleep ] stupid bitch! you [ bleep ] bitch! [ bleep ] whore! >> there's something about watching that and going, yeah,

god, at least i'm not that. >> i look over and i see like hair being pulled, and all the [ bleep ], i'm like, oh, my god, how do i get in? >> got the critics asking, well, why are people watching that reality show? why are they watching the show? because they're entertained. you're never going to meet someone that's going to say to you, you know, i was watching "the bachelor" last night, i loved it, but i wish i was watching a great drama. >> karen. >> i thought you would never ask. >> you don't need to call it a guilty pleasure. just call it a pleasure. it's something you love watching. it could be a reality show, could be a drama, sitcom, documentary. whatever it is, great tv comes in many forms. ♪

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want to know what the best thing about childhood is? at some point, it stops. >> in the year 2000, we get "malcolm in the middle." a pivotal show for a lot of reasons. not least of which because it gives us bryan cranston but it is a single camera comedy. >> around here, being smart is like being radioactive. >> single camera comedies were funny. and the fact that you could shoot them like movies and they could be terrific every week. >> yep, class president felt really good. but later that night, i had a dream. >> critics loved that because it was something new. it was something that they

weren't expecting. >> i used to see the traffic. the only thing that moves is the carpool lane. >> hey, danny, you want a date with mama? >> get in the car. >> "curb" came because larry wanted to do a special. it was, uh, film my life. but he would only make it with the stipulation that if he didn't like it he could buy it back. lucky for us, he liked it. >> are you trying to act like you ain't with me? >> no, i'm not trying to act like you're not with me. what are you saying? >> i will pull a [ bleep ] out. >> don't you dare do that. >> the actors wouldn't get an outline for the show. they wouldn't even read what the scene was about. >> judy! judy! >> judy. oh, my god! >> by the way, that shelf coming down was not planned. that shelf really did come down and larry and jeff just acted their way through it. >> what do i do?

>> stick it in your jacket. >> it's too big. >> do something, she's coming up! >> i think "curb" in many ways is the ultimate descendant of "seinfeld." it's in a much more real, truthful place where morality is a gray area. >> where's the [ bleep ] head? >> and everybody's redefining it all the time. >> the kid is home, hysterical, because her doll judy has been decapitated, because you two sickos took the head for god knows what reason, some photo [ bleep ] you're doing. >> larry and i would play a game of worst case scenario. >> i was talking to a friend of mine. and he's a survivor. and he would love to meet you. would it be possible? i mean, for me to bring him to dinner? >> of course. >> you would take the basic premise from something that actually happened and then just exploit it. >> where's the survivor? >> he's the survivor.

from the television show. >> the guy from "the survivor" tv show and the holocaust survivor get into an argument about who had it worse. >> i'm saying we spent 42 days trying to survive. we had very little rations. no snacks. >> snacks? what are you talking, snacks? we didn't eat sometimes for a week, sometimes for a month. we ate nothing! >> i couldn't even work out when i was over there. they certainly didn't have a gym. >> what? >> i wore my sneakers out and the next thing you know, i've got a pair of flip-flops. >> flip-flops! >> we slept on the ground. >> that was larry david at his best, because he managed to find a subject that no one would find funny and make it hilarious and palatable. >> i'm a survivor! >> i'm a survivor! >> i'm a survivor! >> i'm a survivor! >> i'm a -- >> is there any taboo that you wouldn't break? >> not, not if it was a funny idea. >> it's all about funny. >> yeah. >> so this is the magic trick, huh? >> illusion, michael. a trick is something a whore does for money.

>> "arrested development" was absolutely firing on all cylinders, from the first episode to the last. >> don't you judge me. you're the selfish one. you're the one who charged his own brother for a bluth frozen banana. i mean, it's one banana, michael. what could it cost? $10? >> you've never actually set foot in a supermarket, have you? >> if you got it, it was the funniest thing you ever saw. it assumed its audience was as smart as its writers. >> don't be afraid to make a -- i'm not going to beat myself up over that. >> it was so clever and more meta than just about any show on television. >> aur your average american male is in a perpetual state of adolescen adolescence, arrested development. >> hey, that's the name of the show. >> you could break all these rules and also have a lot of characters on a comedy who were extremely unlikable. ♪ >> there are a lot more important things than jokes in a comedy. jokes aren't the most important

thing in a comedy. >> what's the most important thing? >> character. >> control of the body. it's all that now, isn't it? >> yes. >> busy? >> yes, keeping up morale. >> can we have a chat? >> yeah. ooh! >> i've watched the british show "the office." it's one of the greatest cringe shows of all time. >> no, i don't have a great many ethnic employees, that's true. but it's not company policy. i haven't got a sign on the door that says "white people only," you know. i don't care if you're black, brown, yellow. orientals make very good workers. >> what's up! >> don't do that! >> when the decision was made to make an american version -- >> wazzup! >> wazzup! >> wazzup! >> there was a lot of head shaking. like, oh god, american tv,

they're going to ruin it. >> are they breathing? >> no, rose, they are not breathing. and they have no arms or legs. >> that's not part of it. >> where are they? >> it used the same mockumentary format that the british show had. >> dwight! >> what are you doing? >> we search for the organs. where is the heart? the precious heart. >> that show works. everybody you go to in that cast is hilarious. >> oh, my god! >> dwight! >> the mockumentary format was different and all of a sudden it became something that you just realized the audience was very comfortable and very conversant. >> hey, park lady, you suck. >> hear that? he called me park lady. >> "the office," "parks and rec," "modern family," the conceit is they're making a documentary.

>> i'm okay. i'm good. i'm good. >> the idea of these shows is you know, they sit down on a couch or they catch them in a separate part of the office and everybody does a confessional like reality television. >> i've gained a few extra pounds while we were expecting the baby, which has been very difficult. but apparently your body does a nesting, very maternal, primal thing where it retains nutrients, some sort of molecular physiology thing. but that's science. you can't fight it. >> we didn't need to explain there's a documentary crew, yeah, it's a documentary. we didn't need to talk about it. i got it. and it's funny. >> this year's emmy nominations have been announced. the comedy series "30 rock" was the top nominee. >> "30 rock." >> "30 rock" is having the last laugh again. last year's best comedy winner pulled in 17 nominations, the most in that category. >> why are you wearing a tux? >> it's after 6:00. what am i, a farmer? >> tina fey i always felt was the best joke writer in america. >> would you describe yourself as cat competent?

>> oh, yes. i love cats. i used to have two cats. but then i moved to a place with hardwood floors, so we had to put them down. >> so here comes "30 rock." it's probably the densest show ever jokewise. >> no, no high def. >> "30 rock" was a critical success from minute one. it had a very passionate, very desirable audience watching it from even an advertiser's standpoint. but it was not a highly rated show. >> television on~ pornography! >> but critical success was a marker for we're doing something right there. >> all of my summer replacement shows were big hits. "america's next top pirate." "are you stronger than a dog." "milf island." >> milf island? >> 25 super hot moms, 50 eighth grade boys, no rules. >> didn't one of those women turn out to be a prostitute? >> that doesn't mean she's not a wonderful, caring milf. ok everyone! our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition... for strength and energy!

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>> and what he felt was real about it was the emotions were utterly true. >> it was a bunch of ordinary guys who by way of training and volunteerism and sacrifice both saved the world and were forever changed by what they did. >> a lot of those veterans were still alive. so we got to meet them, we got to talk to them. >> i've seen my friends, my men being killed. and it doesn't take too many days of that and you change dramatically. >> the show premiered september 9th, 2001. two days later, everything changes. people were concerned, should we stop airing it because it's a war story and now the country is at war again? >> it turned out to be something that was necessary, because now almost every american, i think,

felt as though they had enlisted in something that they had not enlisted in before. after 9/11 we were all part of something. >> we deserve long and happy lives in peace. >> historical dramas of the founding of the nation have been overly rosy. >> when i go to the cupboard and i find no coffee, no sugar, no pins, no meat, am i not living politics? >> one of the things that was amazing to me about "john adams" was it was done as realism. >> we will fight for what is right! >> you approve a brutal and illegal act to enforce a political principle, sam! >> just the grittiness of founding a nation. >> and liberty will reign in america! >> and trying to figure out what a president is. >> god bless george washington,

president of the united states. >> it's a gift to be given 12 hours on hbo. god help you if you don't have something to say. >> let's understand each other. i'm in a western district. i'm not a narco. i don't dirty people because i don't give a [ bleep ] about a possession charge. i'm murder police. i care about the bodies. >> david simon was a newspaper reporter in baltimore. he spent a year embedded with the baltimore homicide unit to write a book. he and ed burns, who was a police officer, got together and said, what if we tell the whole story of the death of the american city, the futility of the war on drugs through the eyes of cops? of drug dealers. >> i've got the best territory and no kind of product. i got the best product but could stand a little more territory. >> of teachers, of politicians. just make the entire city into the character itself.

>> you follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. but you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the [ bleep ] it's going to take you. >> "the wire" broke down systemic racism and the cycle of poverty like no other television show had. >> come on, get up. it's a school day, you're going to be late. >> it wasn't just about, hey, look at these black kids chilling drugs on the street. you were in the apartment with them where they had no parents, where they were taking care of their siblings, where they were trying to scrounge for food. >> where's your book bag? >> i didn't get no homework. >> so you start to get a much more realistic, three-dimensional picture of what poverty looks like in a city. >> one of the things about "the wire" that was so interesting is it didn't rely on this traditional representation of gangsters. it didn't rely on this traditional representation of cops. it was like reading a great novel or a great series of novels.

>> i think "the wire" showed the architecture of a full city and the way it layered its characters, particularly omar. omar was, by all other facets of his life, pretty awful. >> yeah, the cheese stands alone. >> but he had this code that he lived by that made him very touchable and very human. >> hey, yo, mike. >> he was openly gay but people were also very afraid of him. and his sexuality was not necessarily weaponized against him. and for me, i didn't see black gangsters portrayed that way a lot. >> no matter what we call heroin, it's going to get sold. if the [ bleep ] is strong, we're going to sell it. if the [ bleep ] is weak we're

going to sell twice as much. you know why. because a fiend is going to chase that [ bleep ] no matter what. >> is it the greatest tv show of all time? people always argue about that. it's the greatest tv show to have black people on it ever. >> what's the highest compliment someone could pay you about the show? >> he didn't lie. that would be it. he didn't cheat. >> good night, stars. >> good night, stars. >> good night, po-pos. >> good night, po-pos. >> at the time hbo was in about 33 million homes. well, fx was going to 110 million homes. that's a lot of people who would like programming like this who do not have hbo. and then we just said, there's got to be a different version of tony soprano. that ultimately was found in the script that was vic mackey, who was a cop. >> good cop, bad cop at the end of the day.

i'm a different kind of cop. >> the pilot of "the shield" is fascinating because you think that the show is being set up as a cat and mouse game. vic mackey is secretly in bed with all the gangs and all the drug dealers making lots of money. then you're introduced to kerry crowley, this undercover cop who's been sent to bring him down. you think, oh, that's the show. i've seen that show before. i've seen that movie before. >> we're talking about making a case that puts mackey behind bars for a long time. >> then we get to the end of the pilot and vic shoots terry in the face. ♪ >> there was some thought that hbo shows did well because they had no commercials. so when a basic cable show like "the shield" that did have commercials found an audience, all of a sudden it just opened the door, and other original programming sprung up like "nip/tuck." >> when you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead. >> and "rescue me." >> you son of a bitch! >> and it was a whole new playing field. >> tommy!

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the current crop of 18 to 25-year-olds is the most politically apathetic generation in american history. >> we had a lot of difficulty getting "the west wing" on the air, and part of that was because of a not unreasonable belief on the part of nbc that people didn't want to deal with politics. >> running for president of the united states without putting social security front and center is like running for president of the walt disney corporation by

saying you're going to fix the rides at epcot. >> i think what made it so different than any other show i'd worked on was the richness of character and words and thoughts and images that aaron sorkin wrote. >> i would love for people to think that i'm as quick and clever as the characters i write. but you would be disappointed if you met me. >> josh. >> yeah. >> six pages on english as the national language. >> meetings don't just take place. sitting down and talking to people. >> and as for a damn social studies paper -- >> donna. >> look at the memo. i gave you what you asked for. don't snap at me. >> we knew that was the essence of this show, this movement. >> what's wrong with everyone today? >> the challenge of doing that is, number one, lighting. >> what was the question? >> if you look at that set on "the west wing," there's a lot of glass. glass is reflective. so there were a lot of technical challenges that existed. but the biggest challenge by far was the performance challenge. >> 802.

five votes jumped the fence. >> because beginning, middle, and end of the scene sometimes in one take, and it was liberating and also intimidating. >> what the hell happened? >> we don't know. >> give me names. >> what the hell happened? >> we don't know. >> give me names. >> i love "the west wing" because it's a complete fantasy of a political world that is so healthily bipartisan and it shows people intensely and emotionally grappling with the hard questions. >> 40% of americans have a gun in their home. only 16% believe gun ownership is an absolute right. only 9% believe it's an absolute wrong. there's a middle and we can win them. >> they presented both sides as being human beings who cared. >> not easy being my vice president is it? >> no, sir. >> this is a valentine toward public service that i think people were hungry for. and so this was a group of people just trying to make the world better. >> alexander hamilton didn't think we should have political parties.

neither did john addams. they felt it led to divisiveness. >> "the manchurian candidate" couldn't destroy us faster than barack obama. >> critics now claim the administration is actually pressuring certain disabled veterans to, quote, hurry up and die. >> what you saw in the media universe in the 2000s was the splintering of the political audience. >> roger ailes had the brilliant idea of creating a network for conservatives, thus fox news. >> the controversy over john kerry and his vietnam war medals has just gotten worse. >> msnbc kind of stumbled into the idea of a liberal counterpart. >> people watch fox news thinking there's news in it. racists, loons and pinheads. >> there was no longer a shared, factual basis for our political views.

we didn't all go home and watch walter cronkite. >> "crossfire." on the left, james carville and paul begala. on the right, robert novak and tucker carlson. in the crossfire -- >> i remember when jon stewart went on "crossfire." it was 2004. john kerry was the democratic presidential nominee facing george w. bush. and i thought, you know, watching it, i said, this is going to be a funny show. >> can i say something very quickly? why do we have to fight? the two of you, can't we just say something nice about john kerry, right now. >> i like john. i care about john kerry. >> and something about president bush. >> he'll be unemployed soon. >> anyone who enjoyed paying attention to the news and watched "the daily show" will forever remember jon stewart going on "crossfire" and reading those guys the riot act. >> you're doing theater when you should be doing debate. it's not honest.

what you do is partisan hackery. and i'll tell you why i know it. >> you had john kerry on your show and you sniff his throne and you accuse us of partisan ha hackery? >> you're on cnn. >> the show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls. what is wrong you? >> comedians and satire when done right will take on hypocrisy no matter where it comes from. >> i think the vice president and is his wife love their daughter. i think they love her very much. and you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter. >> yes, we admire your love for your gay daughter. >> if they've stepped in it, a trusted comic will bring that to the forefront. and i think that that's what people like about "the daily show." >> there is an upcoming election, evidently. i didn't know that.

>> you're our chief political correspondent, stephen. every two years we elect a brand-new house of representatives, a third of the senate. it's called the midterm elections. >> i only vote when the big kahunas are up. el presidente. i can't be running around every two years voting. i have a life. >> i could not have lived without the daily show. >> colbert then becomes the companion show, so compelling to watch. this hilarious pseudo conservative dumb guy. >> and who are the heroes? the people who watch this show. average hard working americans. you're not the elites. you're not the country club crowd. i know for a fact that my country club would never let you in. >> one of the things about being on "the colbert report" and stephen would say it himself, was, he was playing a character. >> the book is "the nine: inside

the spooky world of the supreme court." >> stephen had to respond in real time to the guests as his character, not as himself, which was an incredible feat of acting as well as kind of quasi journalism. >> that's a big part of the book, is how much do the justices' political views play a role in how much they decide cases. >> why would political views go into it? except the activist judges, the four liberal activist judges, i could understand that, because they're activist judges. but the conservative judges are not activists. they're inactivists. >> they, umm -- yeah, i guess you're exactly right. >> what i remember is the moment that barack obama was named president of the united states. >> cnn projects that barack obama is the next president of

the united states of america. it is now official. he has passed the 270 electoral votes. >> when you watch the tape, you can see that colbert begins to cry. and that character can't cry because that's not what that character does. and jon stewart, he loves colbert so much as a human being, he covers for colbert. >> 297 for barack obama. 139 for john mccain. may 1 of '75... the magic moment. congress really democratized wall street... i wanted to have a firm that wanted to get everybody in. because people couldn't access wall street. we wanted to be agents of change.

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the very interesting statistic, people, their favorite shows, be it "csi," be it "er." the most faithful fan watches that show two out of four weeks. >> there was general fear and anxiety, and they had the data to back it up, that shows that became increasingly serialized would lose viewership over time. >> lex, don't! because if the audience misses an episode, they would be inclined to stop watching it because they would feel like, i missed one and now i don't know what's happening. >> there had been amazing shows that had been serialized. they never had syndication value because you couldn't revisit them. but there's almost no better hook. it's like a book you can't turn down, you go, i'm going to watch a little bit more.

>> "24" was set to debut in november of 2001. the pilot climaxes with an assassin blowing up a passenger jet in midair. fox orders this. fox schedules it. 9/11 happens. suddenly the show which seemed like this goofy thing about keifer sutherland chasing after middle eastern terrorists becomes the most timely show on television because that is all that anyone in america can talk about after september 11th. >> the name for the series comes from the idea that it's 24 episodes in a season. each episode is one hour in a day. and jack bauer just has the worst days. >> we are running out of time. pull the trigger. >> please don't make me do this. >> i know how hard this is for you but if you care about me at all, you'll pull the trigger. >> i'm sorry, i can't. >> pull the trigger, damn you!

>> the commercial breaks in that show were almost welcome so that you could catch your breath. >> "24" was really the first binge show, if you think about it. there were a lot of people in the later years of "24" that would only buy the dvds. >> you think he'll come after you? >> yes. >> and a lot of the subtleties and complexities, it's a, my god, this is blowing my mind, i can see it because i just watched three in a row. >> "battlestar galactica" was a show from the '80s. made in the late 1970s. not a very good show but a show with a really good idea which is civilization has been destroyed. humanity is on the run. what happens next? years later, sci-fi channel looked at it and said, what if we take it seriously? >> madam president, we have to eliminate the olympic carrier immediately. >> there are 1,300 people on that ship. >> "star wars" feels like fantasy and fable in the best possible sense. this felt like war.

>> do it. >> the photography was shot very much like world war ii combat cameramen work. >> fire on my mark. >> no frackin' way, lee. lee, come on! >> it was as if someone was floating in space with an old world war ii film rolling and oh, here comes a cylon, i want to get this shot. i really was riveted by it. >> it's classic sci-fi in that it's using the robots and the spaceships and the clones to comment on the world we live in right now. >> i can't die. when this body is destroyed, my memory, my consciousness will be transmitted to a new one. >> the cylons look and act and feel like humans. by the time you get to the middle of "battlestar galactica," you don't know who you're rooting for anymore. >> what other secrets are

rattling around inside that mechanical brain? >> it was like "west wing" in space. >> madam president, without you we wouldn't have made it. >> it was just a very rich world. it felt lived-in. it felt real. and the stakes could not have been higher. >> i think "lost" is the first huge cinematic tv show i saw. i remember gathering at a friend's house to watch. and it was long enough ago and the internet was still young enough and social media was i mean -- it was what, friendster? >> j.j. abrams' ambition for the "lost" pilot was grandiose. he always talked about it as making a movie every week. i think when we say the word "cinematic," what we really mean is opening it up a little more but also the ambition of an action set piece.

j.j. was very aggressive. he was like, if you want me to do this pilot you're going to need to give me the resource in order to do it and i want to shoot it as a movie, and then we have to keep that bar up. >> you start off, you think, this is just a survival drama. here's these people, the plane is crashed, how are they going to get by, how are they going to find food, et cetera? >> we hunt. >> and on top of that, there's this whole mystery, where are we, why can't we get a rescue signal, why is there a polar bear, what is going on here? >> the show averages more than 15.5 million viewers each week and spawned countless web locations where millions of avid fans can obsess. >> the fan base is saying, when are you going to answer these mysteries? personally i started feeling hamstrung story-wise almost instantly, because we had to do 25 hours of "lost" in the first season.

so we started communicating to abc, we're going to run out of flashback stories. >> call it, jack. >> you call it. >> and abc was adamant in saying, no, like the show is a hit show, people love the flashbacks, don't worry, you guys are great at it, just keep it up. >> you okay, freckles? >> at the beginning of the third season of the show, we had our characters locked in cages. and i think looking back on it now, damon and i are like, that's metaphorically how we felt, we felt we were locked in cages. >> around halfway through the third season, abc says, okay, we will let you end the show. we're like, yes, thank god. they said, after ten seasons. >> "desperate housewives" and "lost" launched the same year. it was a huge boost for the network. they had two shows everybody was talking about. >> in truth, i spent the day as

i spent every other day, quietly polishing the routine of my life until it gleamed with perfection. >> i had a lot to say about women who go into the iconic roles of wife and mother and are unfulfilled. >> i think the good news it brought is women who are not perfect, who are not young, are viable. and the fan base was amazing. there were t-shirts, i remember going into a store and there was "i am lynette, are you saying i'm a bad mother?" >> ma'am you need to get back in your car, please. "i am gabby." "i am susan." "i am bree." >> are you at a bar? we stood on the shoulders of those who came before, you know, strong women characters in television. but in the wake of "desperate housewives," a lot more shows with older women came on the

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>> i loved "friday night lights." i grew up in colorado. it's set in texas, but i knew every person who was on that show. and they weren't on the air anyplace else. >> amen. >> amen. >> clear eyes full heart. >> let's get them! >> the pilot of "friday night lights" is one of the best pilots of any television show ever. jason street is the greatest quarterback that dillon high school has ever had. >> i've been scouting notre dame quarterbacks for 25 years. your son may be the best i've ever seen. >> 35 or 40 minutes into the episode, while trying to make a tackle, jason street is hit and he's paralyzed. it is devastating because you get just far enough into the episode to think that maybe the bad thing will not happen to this person.

but then the show wouldn't be the show. >> i am going to stay in dillon. i'm going to be a father to this baby. and to this family. i'm going to coach high school football and you and i are going to stay together. and that's the way it is. yes? >> no. >> what do you mean, no? >> you've got to go to austin. this is your dream. >> that's what i'm telling you. >> what we wanted it to feel like was that the audience was just being invited in to a very small town, very intimate setting. >> i don't want to be responsible, nor do i want to have this baby be responsible for you not living out your dream. >> that's what i'm saying. you are my dream. >> i have walked with you all these years to get to this place. you and i together. >> this is about just a couple trying to actually be in a marriage and make it work instead of what we always see on

television. and then i felt a very strong, deep desire to not just have her be the sideline supporting wife. >> it looks to me like on your sojourn, tim, you missed two biology exams and what looks like a pretty important term paper. in your english lit class. let's start there. >> i don't know what a sojourn is. >> a sojourn is going to keep you back a year if you don't get it together. change your attitude. that's what a sojourn is. the rest of you can look up. >> "glee" was a really interesting show, because it was about high school. and they take pop songs that are already out there and make them part of the story. ♪ i'm dancing with myself >> it's about these misfits in high school and they're in the glee club.

there's a lot of themes about, a, not fitting in, but b, homophobia. ♪ i'm through with playing by the rules of someone else's game ♪ >> it was so specific to my childhood. whoever thought that, you know, a bunch of misfit show choir losers would become a global thing. i never did. ♪ don't stop >> i think "glee" and ryan murphy really got the general public understanding that, oh, there is a person behind this, and there is a person's sensibility that is driving this show. >> now be like a sister. >> this is the point at which the showrunners are almost as famous or more famous than some of the people on their shows, because we care so much about the creative process. >> so is it the drama and the story that usually comes first? >> yes. >> and then the medicine later? >> the theme and the drama of every episode comes first.

then we try to find medicine that relates to or reflects that theme. >> mr. and mrs. glass, i understand how difficult this is. >> no disrespect, but like hell you do. >> you're going to have to make a decision as to how you want to proceed. >> you mean my baby's life or my own? >> yes. >> "gray's anatomy" revealed what a good story teller shonda rhimes is. >> i love you. in a really, really big, pretend to like your taste in music, let you eat the last piece of cheesecake, hold a radio over my head outside your window, unfortunate way that makes me hate you/love you. so pick me. >> and in shonda's case, it's fantastic because finally a woman, finally a person of color is doing this. >> anything that opens door for more women and more

african-americans and more diverse casting and more diverse crew is a good thing. >> shonda stood up and said, yes, i'm going to be a showrunner and i'm going to be a juggernaut. >> i'll put 20 on a total meltdown. >> 50 says he pulls the whole thing off. >> that's one of us down there. the first one of us. where's your loyalty? >> above and beyond the cultural aspect, which is important and great, we need to remember that she created a bunch of shows that are terrific fun to watch. >> you can do this. more coverage. it's a network that gives you... with coverage from big cities, to small towns. introducing t-mobile's 600mhz signal.

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products approved by voters. prop c means more kids vaping. that's a dangerous idea. vote no on juul. no on big tobacco. no on prop c. >> i don't want to mess this up again. >> me neither, okay? we're done being stupid. >> okay. this is it. >> this is it. unless we're on a break. don't make jokes now. >> by the time "frazier" and "friends" went off the air, there was a feeling among the networks that the multicamera format filmed in front of a live

studio audience -- >> so i guess this is it. >> -- was getting kind of tired and getting kind of stale. >> you guys play the most important part. the live studio audience. >> now, there is no form of television that makes as much money for the networks as multicamera tv shows. we write a four-camera show. we write it, direct it, perform it, rehearse it like a play in front of a studio audience. when someone gets a laugh on that stage, they actually hold, as you do not in real life, as you do not in single camera, you are holding for that laugh. >> it's an abstract. >> not abstract enough. >> you've done an amazing job. >> it looks like something, though. what does it look like?

>> if you get close, you can even touch it. >> i'm fine. >> this is bugging me. where have i seen this before? >> we started studying what phil rosenthal was doing with "raymond." he was embracing the very best of what the genre could do. which was interesting characters. he provided me with a very, very loud reminder that i didn't need to fix anything. i didn't need to knock any boundaries or walls over. i just need you to embrace what was there. >> i had been in so many shows that had failed spectacularly that i became known as the show killer. ♪ men, men, manly men >> that's not a great thing to be known as in show business. >> on the sly, i had him come in

and read for me, and he was brilliant. >> how much is a hooker? >> what? what are you going to do with a hooker? >> well, i would like to pay her to have sex with me. >> how much are you looking to spend? >> as you know, i am a bit of a bargain hunter. >> unfortunately they don't stock hookers at the 99 cent store. give me a number. >> okay. well, what could i get in the $200 range? >> crabs. and carjacked. >> i have an enormous sense of pride to have done a multicamera sitcom that people really took to their hearts for 12 years. >> okay. let's start in first position. jake, do you know first position? >> is that like missionary position? >> i mean, that was the longest that a sitcom had been on broadcast television in the history of broadcast television at the time. i think "big bang" is going to beat it. but still, that's amazing.

>> two people talking is the essence of a four-camera sitcom. lighting is not really an issue. there is no music that's going to help the material. >> checkmate. >> there are no special effects. >> again? >> hopefully good words with good actors. >> it must be humbling to suck on so many different levels. >> "big bang" had this weird hurdle, it seemed, not only are you fighting the natural fight that every show does about getting an audience, trying to stay on the air and keep your job, yadda yadda. >> make way for the fastest man alive! >> see, this is why i wanted to have a costume meeting. >> but then there was also this weird wave of energy coming in like, you're in a genre that's passe, we're done with this, we don't want to see this anymore.

>> and the emmy goes to -- >> jim parsons, "the big bang theory." >> all of a sudden we didn't go away. i believe very strongly that the multi cam, shot in front of the studio audience, you hear the other people laughing. it ignites something that's innate in all of us, that's primal in us, the desire to gather in a group and hear a story. >> lauren, look. live from new york, it's saturday night! >> so every generation has their favorite "saturday night live," right, and it's usually the one that was on when they were in high school. so the people that were in high school during the 2000s won the jackpot. because over the course of that decade, you see some of the most extraordinary people come through that show. >> we should mention that although the waters above appear

calm, below the surface there is a frenzy of activity. >> one of the hallmarks of "snl" is you need somebody to play the president. and will's dubya was stellar. >> will ferrell's george w. bush was sort of a lovable dummie. >> how about a life saver here? >> there you go. >> can i get those antlers? >> there you go, son. >> i like these. >> of course. >> cow bell was fantastic. not only because it's a great concept but because will really gets to be will. >> the last time i checked, we don't have a whole lot of songs that feature the cow bell. i got to have my cow bell, baby. i'll be doing myself a disservice and every member of this band if i didn't perform the hell out of this.

>> "snl" in the 2000s is a great time for women. >> it's my birthday! >> because there's a strong group of women that play off each other really well. >> are you part indian, are you cherokee? look those cheekbones, what are you, souix? are you chippewa? >> i believe diplomacy should be the cornerstone of any foreign policy. >> and i can see russia from my house. ♪ i like waterfalls ♪ i like butterflies ♪ i like chasing cars >> you are seeing creativity and wacky left field things that you wouldn't have seen before. >> the lonely island guys really helped make the transition for

"snl" into the digital era. that's when things started to go viral for "snl." ♪ i'm on the phone, everybody look at me because i'm sailing on a phone ♪ >> who could forget "in a box," come on. ♪ make them open the box ♪ that's the way you do it aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. but dad, you've got allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. are you in good hands?

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welcome to [ bleep ] deadwood. >> david milch said i have a great idea about ancient rome. >> cops in ancient rome in the time of nero. >> we're like, okay. >> because we're already doing this show about rome. >> thieves will be strangled. deserters will be crucified. >> david basically took the underlying theme of his rome show and put it in "deadwood." >> no law at all in deadwood. is that true? >> at the time of nero, there was a lot of order and no law. and "deadwood" was a similar environment. >> maybe you don't value keeping your [ bleep ] cuts inside your belly enough. >> those are the days behind us.

>> no, those are the days to my [ bleep ] left. >> ian mcshane's character steals the show, lock, stock, and barrel, away from anyone else. you want to go into that saloon and engage him in conversation. then you say to yourself, if i say something wrong, will i get my guts cut out with a bowie knife? he's a fascinating character in that he scares you and attracts you at the same time. that's kind of a rare thing. >> can we see your fangs? >> i always said daddy hated vampires. but we don't. >> i think that "true blood" was an enjoyable beach read with blood all over it. >> you could say, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it wasn't taking itself seriously, except it was such a big

allegory for what was going on with the gay community, with aids, with political backlash. it's like, there's monsters all over. but the scariest, most deadly characters in the whole show are the human beings. >> showtime looked at tony soprano and they said, you want an antihero? how about a mass murderer who is the hero of our show? >> "dexter" is about a blood spatter expert who is secretly a serial killer. >> soon he'll be packed into a few neatly wrapped hefties and my own small corner of the world

will be a neater, happier place. >> he was raised by a policeman to channel his sociopathic impulses to only kill other killers. so he is a bad guy but also a good guy. >> i kill reprehensible people. i mean, the idea of the show is that you're invited to identify with and maybe even root for a serial killer. >> that's right. >> he kills horrible people. if i were just killing people willy-nilly, i think all bets would be off. >> where's the fun in that? >> in the 2000s, the antihero really rose to prominence. >> my nephew has the same gun. don't point that there. >> nice work. >> and i think they were popular because they were surprising. >> you're a free woman. >> you struck a deal?

>> the d.a. dropped the charges. >> thank you. >> a show for me that was incredibly memorable was "damages." >> now where's the tape? >> it really was about following the twisted relationship of patty and ellen. >> what are you looking at it for? >> fraud. conspiracy. obstruction of justice. >> mr. nye tells us you may have reasons of your own for wanting to take down ms. hughes. >> yes. i do. >> i was just so taken with the fact that there was this incredibly dark, unapologetically, morally compromised lead character who was a woman. >> i told pete to have you killed. >> it was sort of the beginning of a real emergence of rich women on television.

>> all right. sure, take my last one. this will help. >> is this cab free? >> are you [ bleep ] nuts? >> i have heard nurse jackie" referred to as an antihero. she was at the mercy of her addiction that always got her attention. but beyond that, she really cared that there wasn't money in the budget for extra blankets for someone off the street and she would go and steal it from another department. she really wanted to be a good nurse. and she wanted to be married and she wanted these kids and she wanted to be a good wife and mother. >> why do you always have to work? >> yeah. >> and there was no way she could do all of them. >> mommy!

>> edie falco for me can do no wrong. here she is as the female antihero who has her own show. she's the one whose morals are questionable. >> my back, my back! >> she's having an affair. >> can't talk. love you. >> she's stealing drugs and is she an unfit mother and all those things. yet you feel for her. i love that women now get to be -- get to be the antihero and not just either the villain or the good girl. ♪ i want to know how you ever seen the rain ♪ >> i think that's something that the decade gave us, which is a move toward television really reflecting what america looks like. e you so weird? for a limited time, get two complete pairs for $49.

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amc. people forget amc stood for american movie classics. then suddenly they figure out, let's stop paying for these other movies, let's make our own content. >> i was called in 2005 to come in and meet with the head of amc, because they were looking

to do scripted programming for the first time. a manager said, oh, i have this great script set in the advertising world in new york. it's been around for eight years. and nobody's bought it. everybody's passed. >> advertising is based on one thing. happiness. >> don draper is a master of the universe ad executive in mid-1960s manhattan. but he's stolen the identity of the real don draper due to an incident during the korean war. he's living another man's life but battling his demons at the same time. we're seeing him rise and fall over the course of the 1960s. in a lot of ways, the most interesting arc of the show is peggy olson's career. she goes from this little church mouse secretary to a really tough and bold and confident career woman. >> i like the way she's handing out the pops.

>> who knows what to do and will try to get it even during a really sexist period for the industry when it was so hard for women to get anything. >> peggy, can you get me some coffee? >> no. >> the female characters in "mad men" are great because they each represent different aspects of when women were going through at that time. >> you glide around that office like some magnificent ship. >> i had this incredible experience of reading "the feminine mystique" and "sex and the single girl" in the same week. >> daddy! >> the heroes of "mad men" were the women and the men were all obstructions of one kind or another. >> i'm here all day alone with him and out numbered. >> what about karla? does she count? >> it is not her job to raise our children. >> it was incorporating the music of the times, images of the time, the history of the times, and the attitudes of the

times. >> what color panties are you wearing? >> what! >> blue! who had blue? >> can i walk you home? >> "mad men" had absolutely no nostalgia for the period. it showed that people were jerks and adulterers and connivers even back in the glory days of the 1960s. >> what are you doing? >> how they communicated the kennedy assassination was actually exactly as it came to pass. >> they drew their pistols but the damage was done. >> everything stopped. nothing seemed important ever again. and it just so happened to be the weekend that roger's daughter was getting married, it was a big wedding. [ crying ]

>> i would put "mad men" and "sopranos" as the most important shows in the history of television. >> i was about to turn 40 years old. and this was about 2004, two years after the end of "the x files." i was at sea, wasn't sure what to do next. frankly, i was having trouble getting employed. my buddy tom had been on "the x files" too. he said, we should put a meth lab on the back of an rv, see america, make some dough on the side. he's got a warped sense of humor when i heard that idea, i thought to myself, you know,

what if i really did that, what would it take? i thought i'd need money really bad. why would i need money? >> lung cancer. we pitched "breaking bad" to not even a handful of places. some people liked it, some people not so much. it had kind of been dead for six months or a year or something like that. suddenly i hear, would you like to go meet the folks at amc, they're interested in doing "breaking bad." >> surprise! >> we absolutely were looking for an antihero show. and we wanted a guy that was going against the grain. >> dad, come check this out. come on, take it. >> they always tell you, you need to have a good one sentence pitch. i came up with, we're going to take mr. chips and we're going to turn him into scarface. what we were really going for

was change. walter white says it in the first hour of the show. >> electrons. they change their energy levels. molecules. molecules change their bonds. >> "breaking bad" was a study in change. the change that happens to one character as he devolves from good to bad. >> you know the business. and i know the chemistry. >> there was definitely a shift after "mad men" and "breaking bad" that the phones started ringing and a ton of feature people wanted to start making tv shows. >> can you pass the butter, please? >> bad ass dad. >> now it really has taken over what the indie feature was.

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in the end what we regret most are the chances we never took. >> there is an old show biz axiom, you've got to get off the stage before somebody says hey, you should get off the stage. ♪ >> endings are hard in general and i think "the sopranos" was able to accomplish this thing that everybody in television is always trying to accomplish, which is do something that no one has ever seen before. ♪ >> tony is meeting the family at a restaurant and we're listening to a journey song and watching as one by one the family members come in and there's these sinister people lurking around. ♪ strangers ♪ waiting >> we were wondering was tony going to survive this? was tony going to be shot? what was going to happen?

>> they're cutting to meadow parking the car. you know, all these things that are completely normal but they're imbued with this dread. ♪ don't stop believing ♪ hold on to that feeling >> nothing is happening. they're enjoying a family meal listening to "journey" and it is building and building. ♪ don't stop >> the long black in which everybody said did i just lose my hbo signal, what's going on there? i actually thought was kind of like the cord at the end of see "sergeant pepper" in which nine pianos just hit this long major, bong. and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. that black was sort of like what the series needed in order to communicate the fact that it is now officially over. >> as for "sopranos" creator david chase, he got whacked in

the headlines. he got whacked by the "new york post" cartoonist, who showed fans getting whacked. and chase literally got whacked online. >> three or four days later carlton and i were in new york talking to a couple of television critics about how amazing it was. and they're like oh, there's a lot of controversy about the "sopranos" finale. and we're like what? they're like oh, yeah, some people just hate it. the whole cut to black, it's pretentious, nobody knows what it means. they're all discussing whether tony is alive or dead. we're like those are all the things that make it brilliant. and right then we realized we're completely and totally [ bleep ]. >> if you've been fortunate enough to be successful, they have gone along for a long ride with you and the viewer has a through line for every character and the show that you could never possibly have. >> you know i love you, right?

more than anything. >> of course, honey. >> so it is a fool's errand to try and please anyone but yourself when you're writing a series finale. >> finales have become increasingly more important. if you don't do a really good finale to a series, the series can lose its luster. but "six feet under" comes up with a perfect ending and the show is actually enhanced a little bit. the end of "six feet under" has the daughter just driving away in the car and music starts to play. it's sia's "breathe me." and she looks up in the rearview mirror. so she's looking backwards. but then the show looks ahead. ♪ ouch, i have lost myself ♪ ♪ lost myself

>> that season ended and everybody died. and i thought it was brilliant. >> the work on tv is as good as any work that's on a big screen and so that hierarchy of film and television i think has been changed dramatically. partially because of the great work that people did at hbo and also because of the work they did at a lot of other places. >> i've waited a long time for this. >> coming up as an actor, film was the thing. tv was like less than. >> i said bull [ bleep ].

>> so to suddenly be in an era where we could tell these rich stories and really create the suspension of them. and the trajectory of them. >> get over whatever it is and do your job. >> in ways that maybe we couldn't necessarily in film. i do think that led to where we are now where everybody wants to do tv. >> sit down, you guys. >> no. [ laughter ] >> yeah, you can't sit there. >> why not? >> that's where sheldon sits. >> he can't sit somewhere else? >> oh, no, you see in the winter that seat is close enough to the radiator so that he's warm yet not so close that he sweats. in the summer it's directly in the path of the cross-breeze created by opening windows will and there. it faces the television on the angle that isn't direct so he can still talk to everybody but not so wide that the picture

looks distorted. >> perhaps there is hope for you after all. >> tv is changing dramatically now with 150 channels that might be available in the near future. there. >> there's a lot of things that we do that you couldn't have on network television. >> people are really trying to do something adventurous. >> shame on you! >> who was that? >> excellence is hard. it is very rare which is why there are very few good shows and those that are good stand out. >> hold on. >> that was cool. ♪