see, this is the brilliance of the show. i say always keep them running. all the time running. run. run. run. run like the wind! it seems that television has become a kind of electronic confessional. >> it is juicy, newsy, exciting stuff. >> what are we doing here? why did we start this business? >> any tool for self-expression will bring out the best and worst of us. and television has been that. >> they don't pay me enough to deal with animals like this! >> why don't you just get off my back, okay? >> people are no longer embarrassed to admit they watch television. >> hello. >> people used to say i was there. now they watch it on television.

♪ slowly but surely, the 1970s are disappearing. the 1980s will be upon us. what a decade it is coming up.

happy new year! >> as we begin the '80s, in the television world, the landscape was, on any given evening, nine out of ten people were watching only one of three networks. >> more than 30 million people are addicted to it. social critics are mystified by its success. what is it? it's television's prime time prairie pot boiler, dallas. >> a move like that will destroy all of ewing oil and ruin our family name. >> i assure you, a thought like that never crossed my mind. >> brother or no brother. >> "dallas" really did establish new ground that captivated america for 13 years. >> dallas is a television show which is in some ways rooted in the 1970s. and one of the crazy things that emerges is this character, j.r. ewing as a pop phenomenon. >> tell me, jr, which slut are

you going to stay with tonight? >> it has to be more interesting than the slut i'm looking at right now. >> he was such a delicious villain, everyone was completely enamored by this character. >> so many people were watching television that you could do something so unexpected that it would become news overnight. >> who's there? >> the national obsession in 1980 around who shot j.r. it's hard to imagine how obsessed we all were with that question. but we were. >> who shot j.r. is about as ideal a cliff-hanger as you possibly could get. >> who did shoot j.r.? we may never get the answer to that question. the people who produced that program are going to keep us in suspense for as long as we can. >> we shot j.r., then broke for the summer. then coincidentally, the actors

went on strike and it delayed the resolution and it started to percolate through the world. i remember going on vacation to england that summer. and that's all that people were talking about there. >> we know you don't die. you couldn't die. >> we don't know that. >> well, how could you die? you couldn't come back next season. >> that's what i mean. i couldn't come back, but the show could still go. >> oh, but you wouldn't. what is that show without j.r. >> well, that's what i figure. >> well, if you don't know by now who shot j.r. you probably do not care. but last night some 82 million americans did and they watched the "dallas" episode. it could be the most-watched television show ever. >> who shot j.r. is a reflection of old-fashioned television. it gathers everyone around the electronic fireplace, which is now the television set. >> a critic said, it transcends in popularity every other american statement about war. and something special happened

today to mobile army surgical hospital 4077. that will touch millions of americans. >> it was the kind of event that would draw the world's breath. stage nine, the end of the korean war. the television version mash. >> it's been an honor and privilege to have worked with you, and i'm very, very proud to have known you. >> there were those landmark times when shows that had been watched from the '70s and into the '80s like mash had its final episode, and we were all sad to see them go. >> i'm going to miss you a lot. >> all over the country, armies of fans crowded around television sets to watch the final episode and to bid mash farewell. >> the finale of mash was unprecedented. 123 million people watched one television program at the same

time. >> you know, i really should be allowed to go home. there's nothing wrong with me. >> when we ended the show we got telegrams of congratulations from henry kissinger and ronald reagan. the size of the response and the emotional nature of the response that we were getting was difficult for us to understand. >> who shot j.r. and the last episode of "mash" are the last call for the pre-cable world of television. it's like they are the last time that that huge audience will all turn up for one event. >> tv is growing one cable. tv is growing up with content. tv is growing up with different genres. >> the fundamental thing that cable did and the vcr did or the remote control did is it gave consumers more choice. and everything was about to change. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin,

we switched to tide pods free & gentle. it's gentle on her skin, and dermatologist recommended. tide free & gentle. safe for skin with psoriasis and eczema. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again!

thomas magnum? >> marian hammond? >> private investigator? >> oh, you're probably wondering about the goat. just let me drop off my friend and then we'll talk. >> when we entered the '80s, a lot of one-hour dramas that were light-hearted, like magnum p.i. were very popular. >> after mash went off the air, the next season there wasn't a single sitcom in the top ten. first time that had ever happened in tv history. >> the prevailing feeling was that the sitcom was dead. >> brandon tart cough reports sitcoms of the death were greatly exaggerated. >> just one someone is counting a forum out, that is exactly the form of programming that leads to the next big hit.

>> so 1984, the "cosby show" comes on. bill cosby is not new to tv. but the cosby show is very different. it stands apart from everything else he's done. >> comin' right up. >> they talked about parenting. previous to that, on television, the kids were cool and the parents were idiots. and then cosby says the parents are in charge. and that was something new. >> instead of acting disappointed because i'm not like you, maybe you can just accept who i am and love me anyway. because i'm your son. >> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life! >> you know, it helps the casting if anything helps a lot in television, and the kids were just great. >> if you were the last person on this earth i still wouldn't tell you. >> you don't have to tell me

what you did, just tell me what they're going to do to you. >> unlike every other tv show it's showing an upper middle class black family. they weren't tackling deep issues, but that was okay. the mere fact they existed was a deep issue. >> the real decade was waiting for something real. unless it's real, it doesn't seem like it moves anybody. you get to the heart. you get to the mind. and if you can hit the hearts and minds you got yourself a hit. >> how was school? >> school, dear, i brought home two children that may or may not be ours. >> cosby's show brought this tremendous audience to nbc. and that was a bridge to us. i mean, our ratings went way up. ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ where everybody knows your name ♪ >> even this theme song to "cheers" put you in a good mood.

>> evening, everybody. >> what's shakin', norm? >> a couple of chins. >> by the end of the "cheers" pilot, not only did you know who everybody was, but you wanted to come back and see what was going to happen. it's like, all you have to do is watch it once. you're going to love these people. these are universal characters, and the humor worked on so many levels. >> i was up until 2:00 in the morning. >> you have to create a community that people are identifying with. and "cheers" gives you that community. >> i've always wanted to skydive. i've just never had the guts. >> what'd it feel like? >> i'd have to say sexy, not to imagine what sex is like, but i had plenty of sex and plenty of this, too. why don't you get off my back, okay? >> in the first episode, there was a rather passionate

annoyance. i was saying, ah, something's going on here. >> a really intelligent woman would see your line of b.s. a mile away. >> i've never met an intelligent woman that i'd want to date. >> on behalf of the intelligent women around the world, may i just say whoo. >> we said you got to do this relationship. >> ted and i understood what they were writing right away. >> if you'll admit that you are carrying a little torch for me, i'll admit that i'm carrying a little one for you. >> well, i am carrying a little torch for you. >> well, i'm not carrying one for you. >> diane knew how to tease sam. sam knew how to tease diane, and i guess we know how to tease the audience. >> this incredible chemistry between the two of them ignited

the show. that's what drove the show for the first five years. >> oh, i'm devastated. i need something expeditious and brutal to numb my sensibilities and blast me into sweet oblivion. >> how about a boilermaker? >> make it a mimosa. >> we had the ability to rotate cast. and every time we put somebody in, there were explosions. >> bua! >> there was something very special about that setting, those characters that i never got tired of writing that show. >> sophisticated surveys, telephonic samplings test audiences. all of them help separate winners from losers, but you can't cut all comedies from the same cookie cutters. all you can hope is that every night turns out like thursday. >> next! >> how rude! >> he's quick, i'll give him

that. >> all of television said, oh, well, maybe the sitcoms are alive again. and that's all that it took. it took one success. >> a few years from now, something new may tempt people. but whatever gets hot for a season or two, the men and women who create good television comedy will be laughing all the way to the bank.

all right, that's it. let's roll. hey, let's be careful. >> dispatch. we have a 911. armed robbery in progress. >> when quality does emerge on television, the phrase "too good for tv" is often heard, one recent network offering that seems to portray that phrase is ""hill street blues."" >> it's one of the changing points of tv in all of history) we had all watched a documentary about cops and had this real hand-held, if the moment quality that we were very enamored of. >> the minute looked at it, it looked different. it had a mood to it. you could almost, you could almost smell the steale coffee.

>> we didn't want to do a standard cop show where you have your crime, your two cops, you go out and catch the bad buy, you sweat him and he confesses and that's it. cops have personal lives that impact their behavior in profound ways. >> well, what about it? >> don't get excited, we're working on it. >> how's this for logic, if he's not here, and if he's not elsewhere, he's lost. >> you didn't say that, counselor. >> never in my entire life have i listened to so much incompetence, covered up by such unmitigated crap. find my client, or i swear, i'll have you up on charges. >> there'd be these ongoing arcs for characters that would play out for five, six, episodes, sometimes the entire season. and no one had really done that in an hour-long dramatic show. >> these past four months, i missed you. i had to find that out.

come home, pizza man. >> i think in the past people had watched television passively. and the one thing i think we did set out to be were provocateurs. >> what the hell is the matter with you, man? >> i tell you something, they don't pay me enough to deal with animals like this! >> listen to me. it was a white finger that pulled the trigger, not a black one. >> it set a trend, the idea that the audience can accept the characters being deeply flawed, even though they were in this uniform, and i thought that was important to finally get across. >> we wanted to make a show that made you participate, made you pay attention. and i think that worked pretty well. >> and the winner is -- >> "hill street blues." >> we got 21 nominations, and we went on to win eight emmies, and

it put us on the map literally. and that's when people finally checked us out. >> programming chief of one of the networks used to say to me about shows like hill street and elsewhere, what the public wants is a cheeseburger and what you're trying to give them is a french delicacy. your job is to keep shoving it down their throat until after a while they'll say that doesn't taste bad and maybe order it themselves when they go to the restaurant. >> the success of "hill street blues" is a critical phenomenon. influenced everything that came after. then of course you saw shows like "st. elsewhere." >> do you know what people call this place? st. elsewhere. a place you wouldn't want to zipped your mother-in-law. >> when it first came on, it was actually promoted as hill street in the hospital. >> you give your patients the wrong antibiotics. you write the worst progress notes. you're pathetic. >> phil! >> what?

>> dr. morey needs you right away. >> st. elsewhere broke every rule there was and then built some new rules. >> they called a little while ago. they ran a routine panel on the pint of blood. t-cell count was off. >> they would have tragic things happen to these characters. there was real heartache, and you really felt for them. >> i've got aids? >> television at its best is a mirror of society in the moment. >> it challenged you as an actor, much less the audience to think, this stuff they gave you was extreme, and what they did, whether they were dealing with aids or having one of their main doctor characters raped in a prison. >> they tackled lots of difficult subjects. st. elsewhere was run by people who were trying to stretch the medium. and, in the '80s, television producers were encouraged to stretch the medium. >> okay, clear. >> as the '80s got serious,

there was more drama. they were getting a little bit more adventurous with the types of shows that were getting a shot. >> what are you doing? >> i'm doing what i should have done all along. what i wanted to do originally. what i should have done last night. >> stop that. >> stop that, david. i'm calling the police. >> hello, police? >> the networks realized there was an audience looking for something less predictable. >> "moonlighting" was another show that said okay i see the formulas we've had up to here. let's do different things. >> hello. >> hello. >> we're looking a little pail today, aren't we? who have we here? >> i don't know. >> "moonlighting" did a musical episode, they tried a lot of different stuff. >> i don't give a flying fig

about the lines on my face or the altitude of my caboose. >> i'm at a loss. i don't know what a flying fig is. >> that's okay. they do. >> there's no trouble on the set. there is no trouble on the set. >> we have a very volatile relationship. there is a hate-lovell e to it. >> easy come-easy go! >> glen caron kept them apart for a long time, and bravo to him. >> what they did is they took the sam and diane dynamic from "cheers" and escalated it. cheers was will they or won't they, moonlighting was do they even want to. >> stay away from me. >> here i come. >> but i don't want you. i never wanted you. >> yeah, right. >> does entertaining mean at some point stopping the tease of david and maddie? do they get together at some point? >> that's going to get resolved this year. we like to think of it as two

and a half years of foreplay. >> people were waiting for this moment. and your emotions are already there. when "be my baby" starts playing it's like a perfect storm of romance. ♪ the night we met i knew i ♪ needed you so you just spray smooth and you're fresh and ready to go wherever you are. new bounce rapid touch up spray. bounce out wrinkles anywhere.

there are a lot of people who used to say i was there. now people say they watch it on television. >> there's just a lot of excitement connected to sports in the '80s. you used to have to depend on the five minutes at the end of your local newscast. there hadn't been enough. give us a whole network of sports. >> there's just one place you need to know for all the names and games making news. >> what happens in the 1980s is sports becomes a tv show, and what are tv shows built around? they're built around characters. >> you can't be serious, man. you cannot be serious! you got the absolute pits of the world, you know it? >> mcenroe, the villain that people love to hate. the cool swede, never giving any emotion away. >> what tennis really wants is

to get its two best players playing over and over again in the final. whether they've got john mcenroe a mcenroe. >> three match points to martina navratilova. >> this man has a smile that lights up a television screen. >> and magic johnson, this urban kid from michigan and larry bird, this guy who worked carrying trash. one plays for los angeles lakers. the other plays for the boston celtics. it's a great story. >> lakers have several chances, and here's larry bird. >> magic johnson leads the attack. >> look at that pass, oh-ho, what a show! >> when those championship games are in prime time and people are paying attention to that, television feeds into those rivalries and makes them bigger

than they've ever been before. >> somewhat primitive skills, they're just as good as dead. >> every mike tyson fight was an event. because every fight was like an ax murder. when he fought michael spinks, the lelectricity. >> not a lot of junior high school kids can dunk. >> everybody tries now. everybody tries. >> i think that he is starting to transcend just a sport. that he's becoming something of a public figure. >> michael jordan becomes the model that every other athlete wants to shoot for. they want to be a brand. and that's what television does for these athletes, turns them into worldwide brands. >> here's michael in the foul line. a shot, the bulls win! >> athletes in the '80s became

part of an ongoing group of people that we cared about. we just had an enormous pent-up demand for sports and the '80s began to provide, thank goodness. >> cable television is estimated to go into 1 million more households this year. >> with cable television suddenly offering an array of different channel choices that the audience bifurcated, that's an earthquake. >> i want my mtv. >> i want my mtv. >> i want my mtv. >> a new concept is born. the best of tv combined with the best of radio. this is it. welcome to mtv, music television. the world's first 24-hour stereo, video music channel. >> music television, what a concept. mtv was pow, in your face. you are not going to turn us off. >> mtv did nothing but play current music videos all day

long. so let me get this straight. you turn on the tv and it's like the radio? >> i'm martha quinn. the music will continue non-stop on mtv music television, the newest component of your stereo system. >> when mtv launched, a generation was launched. 18- 24 year olds were saying i want my mtv, i want my mtv videos, my mtv fashion. >> mtv was the first network focussed on the youth market. they understand each other, the audience and network. >> mtv had a giant impact, visually and musically on every part of the culture that came next. >> freeze, miami vice! ♪ >> friday nights on nbc are different this season, thanks to "miami vice", a show with an old theme but a lot of new twists. shot entirely on location in south miami, the story centers

around two undercover vice cops. >> i don't know how this is going to work, tubbs. i mean, you're not exactly up my alley, style and persona wise. heaven knows, i'm no box of candy. >> what was interesting about the pilot screenplay, it was not that, very much the approach was, okay, they call this a television series, but we're going to make one-hour movies every single week. >> here we go. stand by. >> action! >> they were just describing the show as a new-wave cop show. >> yeah, it's a cop show for the '80s. we use a lot of emtv images and rock to describe the mood and feeling of our show. >> in a lot of ways you don't get miami vice without mtv. the music was such a big part of that show.

>> there's allure to using great music that everybody was listening to as opposed to the routine tv scoring of that period. ♪ i can feel it comin' ♪ >> it literally wasn't afraid to let long scenes play out. it would drive a car going from point a to point b could be a four-minute phil collins song. and it was. ♪ oh, lord >> to be able to take a television series like "miami vice", and let's rock and roll with this until somebody says stop, are you guys crazy? you can't do that, and nobody did. ♪ >> freeze! police!

these folks, they don't have time to go to the post office they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again!

in recent years, it seems television has become an electronic confessional where people are willing to expose painful areas of their lives to millions of viewers. >> we get the dominance of phil donohue and that maturation of women's issues and he seemed to talk to them in the audience, through the tv screen. >> i'm glad you called, kiss the kids. we'll be back in just a moment. >> if you look at the body of work we've had, you know, you're going to see the '80s there. >> i'm not here to say you're wrong. but let's understand this. when you bring a moral judgment without knowing them against them for the way that they look they feel that confirms the reason for their rebellion, if that's what you want to call it. >> he really believed that

daytime television needed to talk about the ideas we were thinking about, the issues we were concerned about. >> i don't want to characterize his question, but why don't you get this fixed instead of doing this screwy stuff. >> there's not a single recorded case in history of any transexual that ever through psychological treatment changed. >> and we were putting very important people on the program. all kinds of people. gay people, people going to jail. people running for office. sometimes the same people. it was a magic carpet ride. >> you really do paint a very, very grim picture of the sitting president of the united states. >> let me just say this. i think he's probably the laziest president i've ever seen. >> the audience for phil donohue built and built and built and built and led the way to oprah.

♪ >> hello, everybody! hello! >> oprah has a particularly magical combination of her own background, her own experience. her own incisive mind. and empathetic spirit. >> thank you. i'm oprah winfrey. and welcome to the very first national oprah winfrey show! >> i was surprised at the rocket pace that oprah took off. because it took us a lot longer. the donohue show rearranged the furniture, but oprah remodelled the whole house. >> there are a lot of other people out there watching who really don't understand what you mean when you say, well, you know, we're in love. i remember questioning my friends like you mean you feel about him the way i feel about -- >> it's kind of a strange concept for a lot of people to accept. >> oprah was connecting with people in a way no one had on tv before. and it was really special to

see. >> did you know for the longest time i wanted to be a fourth grade teacher because of you? >> i was not aware of inspiring anyone. >> i think you did exactly what teachers are supposed to do. they create a spark for learning. that's the reason i have a talk show today. >> oprah winfrey now dominates the talk show circuit, both in the ratings and popularity. >> i want to use my life as a source of lifting people up. that's what i want to do. that's what i do every day on my show. we get accused of being tabloid television and sensational and so fort, but i really think what we do is serve as a voice to a lot of people who felt up until my show or some of the others that they were alone. >> this is what 67 pounds of fat looks like. i can't, i can't lift it. it is amazing to me that i can't lift it, but i used to carry it around every day. >> there's nothing more endearing to an audience than to have that kind of honesty and

humility and courage on the part of a host. and that, i think, has a lot to do with her power. >> feels like i can do some good here, and i really do think that the show does a lot of good. >> american television is drowning in talk shows. but it's never seen anything like morton downey jr. >> i want to tell you -- >> sit down and shut up! >> other competitors come and take the television talk show into two different directions. so you start seeing the phenomenon of daytime television shows becoming less tame and more wild. >> the l '80s brought a lot of blinl rans to television, whether it was morton downey jr. being the offensive caricaturish person he was or geraldo. he did his own outland ish things. >> stay with us. we're going to get into the mind of another all-american boy who took part in a crime of passion.

>> he takes the power of the talk show to a whole other level, trying to put people on stage who hate each other, who are going to fight. >> in the case of the church of satan, we have not had any problems with criminal behavior. >> yet, when you hear story after story after story of people committing these wretched crimes, these violent crimes in the devil's name. >> the more tension there is, the more conflict there is, the more ratings go up. >> geraldo rivera has criticism on devil worship, but today he found himself in a real free-for-all. >> i get sick and tired of an uncle tom here trying to be a white man. >> sit down. >> hey, hold it.

>> rivera suffered a broken nose but says the show will be broadcast later this month in its entirety. >> well, it's not something, you know, i would have done. but there was a lot of hypocrisy. one of the major magazines put the picture of geraldo getting hit with a chair on the cover, and the article said isn't this awful, look what happened to television, and yet they couldn't wait to use it to sell their own magazine. >> over the years, broadcasting has deteriorated, and now in this era of deregulation it's deteriorating further. >> give people light and they will find their own way. relax. america will survive the talk shows.

1968, the summer before junior high school. and i don't mind saying, i was a pretty fair little athlete. >> "the wonder years" was a guy in modern times looking back on his childhood. that in itself is not new, but the "wonder years" did it with the whit and music. it was a brilliantly-written show and a great performance by the entire young cast. >> hey, steve, you look like my baby brother and his girlfriend have found each other. >> she's not my girlfriend!

>> kevin arnold has to cope with all the timeless problems growing up during one of the most turbulent times we have known. >> kevin arnold is like a regular kid in in the 1960s, and he's not really aware of many of the events. in one of the episodes, the whole family is watching the apollo 8 take off, and i'm just sitting there trying to call a girl. >> the first episode of the "wonder years" anybody who saw it remembers the ending where the first kiss with winnie and kevin arnold. the song they play is "when a man loves a woman" that moment seemed so pure and so real. ♪ when a man loves a woman ♪ can't keep his mind on nothing else ♪ >> the tone is about rebellion, about being students. by the 1980s, it's time to grow up. so they shave their beards, give up their dechiccies and put on power suits, a whole new notion.

>> ah, the yupys. now the young urban professionals are being wooed by advertisers and their agencies. >> by the '80s, it was pretty clear that the generation, after the generation of the '60 the may be embodied by alex keaton on family ties. >> you are a young man, you shouldn't be worried about success. you should be thinking about hopping on a steamer and going around the world. >> the '60s are over, dad. >> thanks for the tip. >> you weren't laughing at michael j. fox's character for being too conservative. you were actually laughing at the parents for being too hope lutz hopelessly liberal. >> what is this? i found it in the shower! >> that's generic-brand shampoo. >> this is the guyive abe i've

telling you about. >> it's focussed on the future, a critique of the '60s. >> michael j. fox as alex keaton really became the center of the show. and writers were smart enough to see that they had something special, and they wrote to that. >> it's not fair, alex. >> yeah. nothing you can do about it, jen. my advice to you is that you just enjoy being a child for as long as you can. i know i did. it's best two weeks of my life. >> alex is a little bill buckley. he, "the wall street journal" is his bible. he has a tidiness, very conservative and very intense 17-year-old. >> the first thing your teacher's going to ask is what did you over the summer. a lot of kids are going to say i went to the zoo or to the beach or a baseball game, what are you going to say?

>> i watched the iran-contra hearings. >> if mom and dad thought this generation was going to the dogs, think again. this is the generation that has discovered hard-workin' success. >> american culture is changing in the '80s. and in terms of television, there's a whole notion of demographic segregation. >> networks were beginning to not be afraid to appeal to a very specific demographic. >> hi, handsome. look at that shirt. >> nice suit, ellen. good shoulder pads. are you looking to get drafted by the eagles? >> "thirtysomething" said we're just going to be about people. >> why did we start this business? >> to do our thing. >> right now we it are have two wives, three kids, four cars, two mortgages, a payroll. and that's life, pal, you be the breadwinner now. >> is that what i am? >> "thirtysomething" is a very

important show as you're going into this era of television being more introspective and emotional. for some people when they were talking about having kids and who was going to go back to work and some of these issues that hadn't been talked about a whole lot, it was important to people. >> i was so looking forward, i was so looking forward to doing this. being a grown-up for just an hour. >> in the beginning, there was talk of this being the yuppie show. you said if there were a category for the most annoying show this might win as well. >> no, what some people perceive as annoying has nothing to do with yuppie. i think that's a word made up by demographers. >> "third etysomething" was not giant hit, but a niche hit. >> the network cared who was watching, not how many were watching.

that was more and more catching on in the '80s. >> the prosecution will ask you that you look to the law, and this you must do. but i ask of you that you look to your hearts as well. thank you. >> "l.a. law" was partly a classic lawyer show, but it was intertwined with personal lives and different lawyers sleeping together trying to get ahead. >> the reality level on that show was like a foot or two off the ground. and you're willing to go with that, because it was a whole new spin on a law show. >> huh-uh. tell the truth. >> if you had to do it all over again and she walked into your office and she said take my case, would you? >> well -- >> of course you would, because it is juicy, newsy, exciting stuff. >> it was really fun to take the litt "hill street blues" format and use it to frame an entirely different social and cultural strata, with vastly different

results. >> i wonder if i might engage with my client privately. >> certainly. >> what are you doing for dinner tonight? >> i was planning on having you. >> in that case, skip lunch. >> the formula had gotten established of how you can do a dramatic show and yet still have an awful lot of fun. we didn't used to be able to accept that very easily in a tv hour. and even before the '80s are out, it's like, okay, i get it. so it's like, all right, what are the rules now? >> you say you're part of a change that's going on. where's it coming from? and where's it going? >> i think it has to do with networks being more willing to put creative control in the hands of producers who have strong viewpoints and letting them do what they want to do. >> i think what "hill street blues" was and what moonlighting was and what the best television is, is it distinguishes itself by its voice.

>> what we're supposed to be here is the one thing people can trust. if you go out there like a bunch of night riders, what the hell are you but just another vicious street gang? >> there was great writing in the '80s. there was a core group of brilliant people. >> the audience demands were changing. >> television has changed a lot since the first emmy was awarded 35 years ago. >> it's as though the contemporary audience was yearning for more stories about themselves. >> as the '80s came to an end, everything changed. >> i think one of the, when we look back at the 1980s, ten and 20 years from now, we're going to be disgusted at some of the tv you've just mentioned, the super violent programs, but one of the great things that's happening now and will continue to happen increasingly throughout this decade is the replacement of rotten entertainment programming by news and talk programming. >> rotten news.

>> so far most of the news-oriented programs, magazines, talk shows on the networks have been surprisingly, at least to me, surprisingly good. a rough reception for donald trump. he was met with boos and cheers. deadly isis attack. isis says it is responsible. imagine owning stock in the world's most profitable company. here's your chance. it's about to go public. what do they produce? we'll let you know. we're