tonight on "the axe files," one-on-one with cindy mccain. >> i think he'd be disgusted with some of the stuff that's going on. >> on president trump and the republican party. >> you said recently that this isn't the party of ronald reagan and john mccain. this is the party of cindy mccain. >> her activism. >> take to heart when people say no, they're not the finest people. i disagree. >> and the fight to protect her late husband's legacy. >> i wish he were here. we need him more than ever. we really do. ♪ ♪ welcome to "the axe files." mrs. mccain, it's great to be with you here in your home. >> call me cindy, please.

>> okay. it's been a little more than a year since your husband's passing. how are you doing and how is your family doing? >> we're doing fine. my job right now is to make sure that our family is -- everyone's in good shape and there are varied stages of grief and of processing and everything else, so -- but we're doing fine. we're doing okay. >> people said he was larger than life. >> he was. >> even in your family. he was what we rallied around. he was our guiding light and our savior and our warrior, so when you lose someone of such magnitude in any family, it doesn't necessarily mean john, but in any family, it's devastating and you lose your rudder for a while. >> i can't tell you how many times lately i've run into people saying gee, i wonder what john mccain would be saying right now. what would john mccain be saying right now? >> oh, gosh.

i think he'd be disgusted with some of the stuff that's going on. i really do. i think what he'd be saying is that he'd be rail against what's going on, and i think john provided a lot of cover for other members, and when he would do it then they could get behind him kind of thing and i'm not seeing a real rudder in the senate right now in all this. >> why do you think that is? it seems like there's this sort of reign of terror about taking on the president, criticizing him. >> yeah. i think it has to do with re-elections and -- and keeping our heads down. i'm not being critical because i understand what it means to get re-elected, but at some point you have to -- you have to do what you were elected to do and that is represent the country as well as your local people, but i think john would be -- i know he'd be terribly upset about this whole thing. he was upset before he died when he saw what was going on.

i wish he were here, like all of us. i wish he were here, we need him more than ever. we really do. >> he embodied certain value, country over party, and fidelity over allies and a commitment to human rights. are these values the values that you see being represented right now? >> well, i see in numbers, yes, and certain areas, and remember, too, he went above and beyond. john was -- he took the time to go to these countries -- not terrible countries. terribly troubled countries, so they knew him. they didn't always agree with him, but they knew he was telling them the truth, and i think that's what's missing in all of this is people miss his candor and his ability to help represent them, fight for them, fight for human rights and

dignity. >> when you read the story about the president's decision overnight to withdraw from syria and essentially leave the kurds to themselves, that must have been one of those -- i can only imagine what john would have said about that. >> i know. john was a huge fighter for the kurds and they'd spent time up there, and they'd spent time up there during fighting. i know he'd be very upset. i was, too, and i was just upset that we would leave some people behind. i'm not a war expert. i'm not a military person, but i understand what helping the little guy means. i don't think many people understand that when the americans arrive, a lot of countries view this as, my god, they're here. we're going to be okay, and so to break your word with anybody, no matter how large or small, that affects the entire country, not just the one that we're trying to help, but our country. it's important.

i mean, in every realm, as the united states citizen and as a country that is the beacon of hope around the world that we keep our word and that we stay true to our own values. >> yeah. >> he also was deeply committed to ukraine and free ukraine and supporting ukraine in its battle with the russians and now you have a lot of people sort of justifying holding up military aid in exchange for political favors. >> i mean, everyone knew where john stood on that when he was alive. the russians are there. i mean, this is -- this is -- these people are trying to be overtaken by an aggressive country that bullies countries, among other things and john -- i -- i can almost hear him in my own ear when that happened that day because it just -- we again, these people need our help. we offered our help.

we promised our help. we need to remember that. >> the mccain institute sort of got mentioned in the midst of the story because kurt volker who was the founding executive director of the mccain institute was also a special envoy to ukraine, and was a witness in the impeachment hearings, and was carrying messages back and forth among various players in this saga. >> yes. >> and he resigned as chair of the mccain institute. were the two related? did you ask him to resign? >> yes. kurt is a good man. he's a good man, but this was overshadowing the institute. it was overshadowing what we stand for and what we work for, and so it was time. kurt needs to concentrate on what's going on now. he's a good man. you know, i'm sorry all this happened. i really am, but my first goal

is to look out for the institute. >> you've known joe biden for as long as you knew john mccain. >> he was the first u.s. senator i ever met. >> he was there that night. it was jill biden that said why don't you go over and talk to them? >> that's very true. >> he wrote in his last, wonderful book, the restless way, joe and i have argued a lot over the years and it's a first-class human being and it's a lucky thing to be his friend. how did you react when the president has torn after him, called him corrupt, called his son corrupt? >> well, he's my friend. i mean, i react -- i had the same reaction that any friend would have. i was very disappoint individual of this. again, john always worked across the aisle. he did that in both friendship and in his service and there's no reason, in my opinion, to disparage anyone that's

running -- just because you disagree with him and that's kind of where we're at right now. if you disagree with me you're wrong. i'm right, but you're wrong and that's not the case. >> would you vouch for biden's integrity? >> i would, yes. i think he's a lovely man. i really do. i differ with him on his politics all too often, but that's okay. our friendship goes way beyond that. joe biden has kept this family together in many ways. he came out several times to see john and me. my daughter meghan, he's really taken an interest in trying to guide her a bit through this. this has been very hard for her and, so -- this is our friend. >> another really dear friend of yours is lindsay graham. he's almost a member of your family, traveled the globe with senator mccain. i was with harry reid recently and harry reid said that he admired lindsay graham as a john mccain republican, but that now

he's become running for re-election in south carolina trying to get re-elected republican. is that fair? >> i, you know, i can't gauge a lot of this because i don't know what's going on in south carolina. i haven't really politically kept up on a lot of this stuff. lindsay's a member of our family, and i love him regardless, and he will always be -- he and i are the same age, but i feel like sometimes he's my fifth child in many ways. i love him to death. >> presumably, occasionally, you have guidance to offer your children. do you offer your fifth child advice? >> i have offered advice. >> i'm sure you won't share that. >> it isn't after the living, it's the dead. he's continued to go after senator mccain including this bizarre thing where he was in asia and the white house ordered the military to cover the name

of the "uss john mccain" because they thought it would disturb the president. how did you react when you heard that news? >> well, here's how -- exactly what i felt. i thought, how sad for the crew members of one of the finest ships in the navy to be treated in that fashion that somehow the name of the ship is disparaging. these men and women serve, they give their lives in many cases. there's no room for this. there's no room for it. i know there's been different stories about what happened, but i happen to think the "uss mccain" is a pretty good ship. >> right back to the campaign when he said, i don't think john mccain as a hero. he may be the only person in the country who believes that. why do you think that he is so intent on making these points? >> i cannot answer that. i do not know. i -- i -- you know, i -- i

don't -- and i've been baffled by this. i really don't know what's going on. i do know this, that john was a hero and will continue to be a hero, and i think most americans would agree with me on that. whether you agree with his politics or not, he was a good man. >> i was honored to be part of your retreat of the mccain institute in sedona this year. you founded that institute in 2012 to fight for human rights against human trafficking and promote democracy and freedom around the world, and i know one of your focuses has been your concern about the global refugee crisis. >> right. >> the u.s. has ratcheted down its quota for refugees, accepting refugees to the lowest level since the refugee resettlement program began in 1980. what is the message that that sends? >> well, i, of course, disagree with ratcheting it down. i think that our country

welcomes the -- the grand fiber of refugees and what they bring to this country. i lived on the border and i was born and raised in the state and i've lived on the border my entire life and i see nothing but richness, integrity and great contributions to the community that the hispanic community has offered this state and this country. so i take to heart when people say well, no, they're maybe not the finest people you can let in. i disagree. i disagree, and i think that especially unaccompanied children, it's our duty to help those less fortunate and those who are running for their lives. >> yeah. >> and i just disagree with that. i wish we could allow more to come in. coming up on "the axe files." they have an interesting collection of people running. i think it's kind of fun to watch. >> you're watching with interest. >> i am, yeah. it's interesting. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.

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>> you actually talked about when your husband passed as potentially succeeding him in the senate. how serious was that? >> i was talked to seriously. i did think about it, but at the time it was just moments after my husband had died, and i had to weigh what was more important and my family was more important. this was a blow to us, and so i didn't feel like i could do any job except the one about my family, and that's exactly what i did. >> you said recently that this isn't the party of ronald reagan and john mccain anymore, and it prompts the question. is it the party of cindy mccain? do you consider yourself a republican still? >> i do. y yes, i do. i'm not leaving the republican party. that's our home. for me, i want my party to do well, and i want my party to

succeed because that's what democracy is in this country, but i would hope that the younger people who are moderate, more moderate than the party represents will have a place at the same republican table that i was afforded. >> you've been through a lot of elections in the state of arizona. you had to qualify as an expert on this state. there's been a lot of talk about arizona potentially turning blue in 2020. is that a real possibility? >> i think it is. i think it's a real possibility. we see a lot of people and influx from various parts of the country and young people are more moderate, and i think you may possibly see a blue state coming up. >> did you see yourself voting for the president? >> i don't know. i wrote my husband in last time, and i didn't have a choice on either side. with that said, i believe in the presidency. i believe in what it stands for and as what we as americans stand for, so you know, it's a

decision i'll make at the time. >> i want to talk to you about the two presidential races that you were involved in. i remember the 2000 campaign, and john mccain got to run as the maverick. >> right. >> that he is. >> yeah. >> he was challenging, conventional thinking of both parties. >> yeah. he seemed to have a ball and he was on the straight talk express. you were on the bus, as well. >> yeah. >> and it seemed like a lot of fun. >> it was. >> senator mccain won this spectacular victory in the new hampshire primary by 17 points over george w. bush who was the sort of presumed front-runner. the race then turned to south carolina and it became really, really nasty. you adopted a taughtdaughter fr bangladesh. >> yes. >> a beautiful daughter. >> thousands of calls saying that john mccain has a black child and i know you were

infuriated by that. you tried to keep it away from brigitte? >> i did. >> were you able to? >> no. it was several years later and she got on the internet. it never occurred to me that she would google herself, and i don't know why because it seems a normal thing to do now, but she googled herself and this whole thing came up, and she came in, and i happened to be home at the time and she came in to where i was sitting in the den and she was weeping, and the words out of her mouth were exactly that. mommy, why does the president hate me? and i mean, it broke my heart. it just broke my heart. it's hard to explain to a child, look, this is just tough politics, you know? >> it's not a good enough reason? >> no. it's not a good enough reason. it's affected her. it's affected her throughout adulthood. >> you walked away saying never again. >> how did that work for you? >> i was the last one onboard in

'08. in fact, they were dragging my toes in the sand to get me up there. i just on eye certainly wanted john to do it, and i wanted him to not have to look back and say i could have, would have, should have kind of thing. >> i knew that i was going to get onboard, but i really, it pained me again. >> because of what you had been through. >> on to put the kids through that. >> in the midst of this, your son enlisted in the marines, 17 years old. >> and he was deployed in the midst of this. >> right in with anbar province and the worst of the worst and he saw heavy combat. >> and this was going while you were involved in the campaign. >> were you worried that his identity would make him more of a target? >> i was petrified that they were going to find out who he was. all mom wants to do when a child is like that, you want to talk about him. somehow if you talk about them it will keep them safe. it's ridiculous, i know.

and i couldn't say a word. >> fight for what's right in our country. fight for the ideals and characters of a free people. >> the '08 race was certainly a different race. you had -- you had the 24-hour news cycle that was kind of, as you know, kind of dominates the whole thing and it was different. the tone was different, although, and i know you know this, i thought that our two guy did the best race they could and it was an honorable race and that was the most important part of all of that was that they both ran honorable campaigns about the issues and that's what it should be about and we've seen the last of that for a while. >> he had a tough race in 2010, right-wing candidate ran against him in the primary. in that election year, you were kind of involved in your own

campaign in california over same-sex marriage? was that problematic for him here. >> i think it did. let me say why i did it because i felt it was very important. >> gays have been allowed to adopt, and i didn't think that it was very fair to a child to say, they're allowed to adopt, but they can't get married. what does that say to the child? so i went about it because i'm an adoptive parent, so i came about it in a different light, and i just thought it was wrong. i thought it was time, you know, to do this. a lot of members of the party were fine with it, a lot weren't. >> what do you think of the trajectory of the issue? we've come a long way on it. >> we've come a long way on it. it's human rights and dignity for all, and equality and it's as americans. >> we have a gay candidate running. >> we do. >> an openly gay candidate rung for president of the united states now, pete buttigieg.

do you think that's a barrier to him or will be? >> i think in some parts of the country it will be a barrier for him, i hope not. they have an interesting collection of people running. it's kind of fun to watch. >> are there plausible presidents? >> oh, sure. they're all good people and wonderful. different backgrounds. i like the diversity. almost every walk of life is on that stage at the debate, et cetera and rung. it's fun to watch and to see the involvement. i do think it's probably time to start paring down a bit. >> you're watching with interest. >> i am. it's interesting. i love debates and political races. it's fun to watch. >> as long as family members aren't involved? >> exactly. >> ahead on "the axe files" as far as addiction goes, i could see myself spiralling. i knew by the end of that i was in big trouble.

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i don't think we can fix our democracy from the inside. i don't believe washington politicians and big corporations will let that happen. the only way we can make change happen is from the outside. for me, this comes down to whether you trust the politicians or the people. and if you say you trust the people, are you willing to stand up to the insiders and the big corporations, and give the people the tools they need to fix our democracy. a national referendum. term limits. eliminating corporate money in politics. making it easy to vote. i trust the people. and as president, i will give you tools we need to fix our democracy. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. when we were looking he wanted someone super quiet. yeah, and he wanted someone to help out with chores. so, we got jean-pierre.

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♪ ♪ you are an arizonaan through and through. in fact, we're sitting at your place and you're a block from where you grew up. >> well, i did. i grew up a block from here as our children did, too. we lived in the home that i was raised in for a long time. my parents were -- my dad was the american dream. he went away -- we were very poor here. went away to world war ii, came back. he became a pilot and a bombadeer and he came back, married my mother and sold everything they had to get $5,000 to get the anheuser-busch brand because no one wanted it in those days because they thought it was a bad brand. >> he became quite successful. >> it's the perfect american dream. >> he was a cowboy. business is business, but he loved horses and adventure.

>> he did. he was a cowboy. he was a cowboy in the best -- and i mean that in the best way because he was very down to earth. he never met anyone he didn't like and everyone loved him and he knew everyone's name, and he spent as much time as he could on horseback and me with him a lot of times which was great fun. we used to ride horses around the world in various countries. >> and you went to drag races when you were in high school? yeah. >> you were a scuba diver. you got yourself trained as a pilot so you could fly, i guess, then congressman mccain. >> that's right. >> around arizona. so you're an adventurer yourself. i'm sure i get that from my dad. a little influence from john, too. >> they were with you when you first met john mccain. talk about that even, and you were on vacation in hawaii? >> i was. i was a school teacher at the time i taught special ed and we

were invited to a reception, and it was in honor of those flying through from washington to china. it was a senate delegation and john was the escort officer. >> he was still in the military. >> he was. he was. yeah. >> and he -- and we had a mutual friend that had been trying to set us up and i would have none of that. i wasn't going to do that and i wound up meeting him anyway, so it was great. >> he described it as love at first sight. i don't know if he was speaking for you as well. >> i think both of us. >> you lied to each other as one of your first -- >> we did. >> tissue of lies now. no, we both lied to each other about our age. he made himself three or four years younger and i made myself three or four years older and in arizona when you applied in the marriage license they published that in the newspaper and i wasn't going lie to the judge or anybody else trying to get this thing and that's how we found out how old we were. >> you came back here and he

worked with your dad, and very quickly there was a congressional seat that opened up. >> yeah. when he won and he won handily. >> yeah. >> you chose not to stay in washington which was more common back in that day. >> well, i'm an only child and at that time my dad was trying to get me involved in the company and i wanted to be involved in the company and i felt like i needed to take that time and be here for my parents. we had no children at that point and when we started having children there was no choice we were going raise them out here because washington was in no place to raise a family doing what we were doing. >> it was hard for john because he made the commitment to come home every weekend because we had kids and we didn't have non-stop flights in those days. >> it was hard for him. you had ultimately, a house full of kids. you grew up in privilege, but you've dealt with some really

tough challenges. one of them was drug addiction. >> uh-huh. >> and you became addicted in a way that has now become familiar to -- sadly, to millions of americans. >> tell me about that. >> well, i became addicted to prescription drugs because i had a terrible back problem. the issue was hot. >> it was probably the only ethical issue that john mccain ever faced in his life. >> as you know, the savings and loan crisis and -- yeah. as far as the addiction goes, i could see myself -- it's weird. i could see myself spiralling because i went and sat every day in the hearings and that's hard to do. the world cameras are on you and i had to be there. i had to be there, and it just was this pendulum that started

swinging down and down and down and i knew by the end of that that i was in big trouble. >> you were dealing with not just physical pain on. >> yeah.emotional pain of what was going on. it's very hard to describe something that's been through something like that understands it, but for me it was just -- you know, i found out a great deal about myself obviously. i had a weakness and more importantly, though, i'm in recovery. i've been in recovery now for 30-some years, and it made me a better parent to understand that there will be problems. you have to look closer at the problems because i hid it really well from john. >> yes. >> i hid it from him. >> it went on for a couple of years. yeah. >> it was all about. >> honestly it was pressure that i put on myself and it was becoming -- being the perfect wife. when he got home i wanted to be

perfect and wanted the kids perfect, and it just -- i put undue stress on myself. as a result of that, i just couldn't handle it all. >> now you've watched the opioid crisis really overtake the country? yeah. >> what are your feelings about that and you must have a great sense of identification when you were going through it. >> completely. lessen, y listen, you could good night two steps without having a doctor prescribe, and it wasn't just me, oh, honey, just go home and have a drink or go home -- let me give you these pills. it -- it was way too easy to get this stuff. i mean, i'm totally at fault. did i this, but it's way too easy to get it, and i'm glad that people are beginning now to take action and making sure that that's not the case and that only those who truly need it. >> we talk about all of those people going through opioid addiction and very few have to go through it in the public eye.

it's a struggle enough to go through these things, but to have to go through them in the bright lights. >> yeah. one thing i learn side that the worst thing that you can do to an addict or someone trying to get into recovery is to make fun of them or to publicize them or to beat them up because you're at your most vulnerable point and so what they did to me, what the press did to me was to just scathingly beat the crap out of me, and so yes, i made a mistake and we're in the public so i certainly deserved to be talked about -- not that way, but talked about the issue and instead, cartoons and things and that's the worst thing you can do to an addict because it's hard enough. >> were your kids old enough to know? i told talked to them and they were old enough to know, yes.

what john and i told them was everyone makes mistakes and this was a horrible mistake on my part and it's also an addiction. it's an illness and it's important to teach them that addiction is -- it's an illness. yes, there are mistakes made all too often, but you're sick. you need to get help. >> when you were still in your 40s you had a stroke. what happened? >> i had just returned from asia. we were on spring break with my kids and we went to japan. drift racing and the next morning i got upand went to lunch with some friends and i was mid-sentence and the stuff that was coming out of my mouth they couldn't understand what i was saying and then i went fuzzy. i had blood pressure, and i thought if i eat right and exercise and i don't need to take this stuff and i became the m.d. i kind of screwed up that day

because i really needed to be taking my blood pressure medicine and i do now religiously. >> so your son jack decided that the best thing for your recovery was to go out drifting six months in, and you were reluctant? >> i was reluctant because it hadn't been that long. you don't trust yourself after that, and we went drifting that day. we did not win, but we had a hell of a time. we were the only mother/centime out there on the track so it was fun. >> up next on "axe files." and i said where is he going to go? i said i thought you'd come to our house. i thought so. that's how we met his daughter. it begins with a distinctive approach to managing money. that for over 85 years has focused on keeping confidence up when markets are down. an approach where portfolio managers work well independently.

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philanthropist. >> thank you. >> and a lot of the things that you've done have flowed from your experience, you had started this organization to bring medical units to places that didn't have it. that was the result -- you were scuba diving with a friend and she got injured in micronesia. >> she wound up at the clinic and this is a national health service hospital and it was despicable. i mean, it was -- there was -- there were rats, running water on the floor, there were no beds. i had never seen anything like that before so i just started the good, old-fashioned way. i got my friends together and got supplies together and put a team of doctors and nurses together. >> you are also very well known for your work on human trafficking and that also started as a result of a journey that you took.

our youngest daughter came from mother teresa's orphanage in bangladesh. i'd met her before, but i went to see her grave and we were in calcutta and obviously paying our respects to her and when i came out, i reminded myself i wanted to get some sari material for my daughter and bring it to her and i was in this kiosk and it was calcutta and it's dusty and there are smells and all kinds of things and while i'm shopping i kind of hear this kind of rumbling, kind of movement from underneath the floorboards and i asked the owner, and he said oh, no. that's just my family. we live down there. that's a very plausible thing. when i went to go pay, there were slats and narrow slats in it and i could look down and i could see all these little sets of eyes looking up at me, and i asked him again, i said what's going on? and he became very -- we're not

going to talk about this. it was very clear. there had to be 50 little girls down there and i thought i had to know, and i had to go home and educate myself and it made me angry as hell and number one. number two, i thought this only happened outside our country and i started to focus foreign governments and foreign country, et cetera, only to realize later on as we get further into this that it is an epidemic in the united states. it's a huge problem here. >> you've been active here in arizona and in other states to try and actually get state laws to focus on this. >> we did. yeah. >> are we doing enough? >> no, we're not. >> i spend -- each time i go to these regions i spend time in a refugee camp, wherever it is and what you're seeing is the world's most vulnerable who have been pushed out of wherever they were from, from either war,

famine, whatever it may be this time, drought -- and of course, they prey on the most vulnerable, women and children and the traffickers are more prevalent because the internet, we hear more about it and number two, the ability for these traffickers to contact each other and be -- and keep their network stronger and more mobile and more sleek in terms of moving people around. it's the same people that run guns, drugs and animals. they run people, too. only people can be sold over and over and over again. >> another issue that you were and have been involved with is the issue of land mines. there is a story associated with this, as well about your travellers to kuwait in 1991. they had put land mines in the playgrounds. the they had planted land mines in the kuwaiti playgrounds and the kids were coming out for the

first time in seven, eight months and were getting blown up. i couldn't believe it. i became very involved in halo trust because of that. >> you mentioned your daughter brigitte before. that -- that was also a result of the work that you were doing. you were in bangladesh and you were at mother teresa's orphanage and you came across this child and it was another case of love at first sight. >> it was. she picked me, and of course, brigitte had a very serious facial deformity, cleft palate, cleft lip and all that stuff and you have to take them back and get help for them and indeed, i was able to do that. i was in a situation. my husband was who he was and i was able to get medical visas for them very quickly and get passports and all those things and i realized on the flight home. i couldn't give this child up. i'd become so attached to her because i'd been seeing her over weeks, you know? and so when we landed in phoenix

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it up. we've got work to do here. what about you? >> i felt like i had been hit by a truck, i'll be honest with you and i also knew that i had to keep myself together and show him that i could be okay and stick with him. i think a loot of people, you wonder, oh, my gosh, here i am this ill, now what's going to happen and now what am i going to do? and, yes, he did tell the staff to suck it up and he joked with them and made cancer jokes. this is who he was. and what he stood for. he went out his own way. i don't know if you heard the story. >> i have heard it but i would love for to you tell it again. >> we just finished lunch and he was close. i knew it was close and so i single-handedly pushed his bed on the patio and overlooking the creek and see all the trees and flowers that he had initiated. on the play list it comes up

frank sinatra "my way" and then -- >> on its own? on its own, on its own and then one of the hawks that he loved so much that nested up there, he was sitting on the corner of the roof and flew across the yard and landed in a low tree just looking at us and stayed right there and that was about the moment john passed. i mean, it was -- ? that was -- that's a novel. >> i know, i know. he did it his way, that's what he was all about. >> in the midst of this in the summer of 2017, he announced that he was going to come back to washington to participate in the debate over the repeal of the affordable care act. the doctors weren't that thrilled. >> the doctor, everyone. >> he insisted. >> he insisted. he said this is what i need to do. this is where -- i have to do this. it's too important to the country. and he just put his foot down and meghan was asking him not to

go and i'm so proud of him. >> that was -- >> mr. peters -- >> one of the most historic thumb's down ever. did you know he was going to do that? >> you know something, when he walked in that -- i thought i knew that he would do the thumb's down but, you know, people were waiting in the back rooms and governors were calling and i mean there was a heavy push on him that night. >> vice president pence took him aside several times to talk to him and put the president on the phone with him. >> right. well, you know, he always tried to do what was what he felt was right for the country. and i think in that case he was right, there was no other -- there was no other presentation of anything that was better or different or anything else and he didn't think it was the right thing to do. >> he did catch holy hell from -- >> from everybody. >> did it bother him? >> no, not at all. he knows he did the right thing. >> in the midst that have same

debate, he stood up and gave what was really his last big or race to the senate. >> stop listening to the bombastic loud mouths on the radio and television and the internet. to hell with them. we've been spinning our wheels on too many important issues because we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. >> the kinds of relationships and friendships that john made, not just for his own party but across the aisle were indelible to what was going on in the country. that's how you get things done. the one thing he knew we were never going to move forward unless we warriorked together e >> you and the senator invited presidents bush and obama. two former opponents to speak at his service at the national cathedral in washington. >> and we will remember him as he was unwavering, undimmed,

unequal. >> after all, what better way to get a last laugh than to make george and i say nice things about him to a national audience. >> why was this so important to both of you? >> well, i think, number one, he respected both men. you know, having had, you know, challenges by both of them i think he respected both of them, respected their leadership, their honesty to a great degree. and i think also in his mind we never talked about this, by the way, but in his mind i believe it was a coming together. it was a respect for both sides, both don't mean it's your enemies. there were a lot of messages. >> you had two presidents speaking. there was one president that wasn't there, obviously president trump. why? >> well, hi to -- i had to worry about my family and my family was somewhat bitter about things that had been said about their

dad and so it was -- it would have been very disruptive to my children and so i took their lead on this whole thing. it was ultimately my choice and my decision. but it just -- i just didn't want any disruption, i didn't want anything to overshadow john mccain that day because that's why we were there. >> words matter if words matter. words matter. especially to a dying man. >> you've launched a whole campaign to promote civility. >> uh-huh. >> in the public square. >> acts of civility. >> #actsofcivility. >> explain what it is. >> it's just the simple words acts of civility and challenged people to post an act of civility. whatever that may be. take a breath, look around. let's be kind to each other. let's be generous to each other, it was take a step back and remember, you know, kindness goes much further than anger

does. >> how has the response been? >> it's been overwhelming. i wasn't sure what to expect to be honest with you and it's been incredible. >> your husband said in his book as the end was approaching, he said i'd like to see our politics return to the purposes and practices that distinguish our history from the history of other nations. i'd like to recover the sense we're more alike than different. even in times of political turmoil such as these we share that awesome heritage and the responsibility to embrace it. i'm thinking now about you and how you see your role moving forward. >> you know, i'm in charge of his legacy now and that's a big job, and part of his legacy is just exactly what he wrote in that book and so i feel not only compelled to continue that, but more encouraged and much stronger about where we should take this. it's part of him and we need to teach our children these lessons and our grandchildren these lessons. john admitted he had a temper

but he always would think twice, go back and apologize and three tried to live the best he could so i think if we can just remind people of what is good about us and practice that, you know, practice -- it's the golden rule, you know, practice the golden rule. >> well, cindy, thank you. >> thank you. >> for that. thank you for all the service and thanks for your time today. >> thank you. thank you. >> catch more of the conversation, you can hear the podcast at luminary podcasts.com. you're live in the cnn newsroom. thanks for being here on this saturday oorng. i'm ana cabrera and public testimony begins in just days. we still don't know the full lineup. already so many key players have refused to testify in the