our live special coverage of the impeachment hearings continues right now with wolf blitzer. >> good morning. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we want to welcome our viewers here in the united states and around the world. in hours of testimony during this, the first impeachment hearing of the trump presidency, the stunning new information came in just during the first few minutes. the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine, bill taylor, revealing that just days ago, he learned that a senior embassy staffer overheard a phone conversation between president trump and the united states ambassador to the european union, gordon sondland. the political affairs counsel david holmes said he heard the president ask sondland about investigations into the bidens. president trump says he doesn't remember the phone call and he called it secondhand information. the firsthand information will come next week, raising the stakes dramatically for sondland's testimony next wednesday. and tomorrow, holmes, the taylor

staffer who overheard the conversation, will be questioned behind closed doors. also tomorrow, we will hear publicly from the diplomat bill taylor who was brought in to replace in ukraine, ambassador marie yovanovitch. aides have told president trump so far that the testimony has been a big win for him while admitted privately there's still a lot more to come. our team is covering all the angles. let's first go up to capitol hill. manu raju is joining us right now. what's the latest? what are you hearing? >> democrats believe this new information really shows the extent of the president's push to get ukraine to investigate his political rivals at the time in which ukraine was awaiting this aid, military aid, roughly $400 million that had been approved by congress amid questions about why that had not been turned over until september. and also as ukraine was pushing for a meeting between the ukrainian president zelensky and president trump, but the

president was still pushing privately for these investigations, including into former president -- vice president joe biden. yesterday, also, adam schiff made clear that this shows that the president was directly involved in some of these decisions and that they could no longer blame people below him. >> in the presence of my staff, at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. >> this is very, obviously, very important because there is an effort apparently to, by the president's allies, throw sondland under the bus, throw mulvaney under the bus, throw anybody under the bus in an effort to protect the president. what this call indicates, as other testimony has likewise

indicated, is that the instructions are coming from the president on down. one of the reasons why we want to do these hearings now in public having done the depp sig deposition in closed session is we want them to evaluate the credibility of the witnesses themselves. >> that last part was in reference to gordon sondland's testimony. i asked gordon schiff whether he believed sondland was truthful about his interactions with the president in the aftermath of this new revelation that sondland had this discussion with the president that was overheard by this taylor aide in which the prlt wesident was pus for these investigations into biden. bill taylor did testify that sondland told him that everything was contingent on the public declaration of investigations. that includes aid to ukraine. that includes military assistance. that includes this meeting that the ukrainians sought. and that's something gordon sondland will be pushed at next week in his public hearing.

does he provide any more clarity or differ from bill taylor in any way? that's going to be a key moment in these impeachment proceedings. >> going to be very, very dramatic next week. manu thank you. let's go to the white house. our senior white house correspondent pamela brown is on the scene for us. how does the administration see the testimony at least so far? >> you know, wolf, president trump has got this break today from the public impeachment hearings, but he is tweeting about yesterday's hearing from two key witnesses, focusing on the gop lawmakers' questioning, praising congressman ratcliffe who asked about what the impeachable offense was in the president's call. but even as the white house aides brief president trump, they believe the hearing was a win for them it is clear the president is not out of the woods yet. particularly in the wake of that new revelation you were just discussing from bill taylor about one of his aides heard the president on the phone with ambassador gordon sondland pressing about the investigations at the center of this impeachment probe that sondland characterized as the

president caring more about the biden investigation than ukraine. this new information caught the white house off guard, and the president as well. he claimed that he didn't recall that conversation. and it immediately put the white house on the defensive. they were quick to point out that if this aid was so alarmed, he would have raised it earlier than a week ago. this is just another example of hearsay. but no doubt it raises the stakes for gordon sondland's upcoming public testimony and has given democrats new ammunition to tie everything back to president trump as manu noted. during this hearing, the white house pushing aggressive messaging campaign in response. and inundated allies' inboxes with talking points. that rubbed some gop lawmakers the wrong way. some complained that they were being spammed and actually asked them to stop. we should note that the president will be in louisiana tonight before a friendly crowd before returning to the white house for another round of public hearings tomorrow. wolf? >> pamela brown at the white

house, thanks very much. this note to our viewers, coming up, i'll speak live with kellyanne conway, the counselor to president trump. that interview coming up later this hour. i want to break down all the latest developments with my experts right now. carrie cordero, what do you think? these two diplomats yesterday, they made it clear that their understanding was that no u.s. aid, no military assistance to ukraine would flow unless there was a public statement from the ukrainian leadership saying they've launched an investigation into the bidens, as well as the 2016 presidential campaign. >> exactly. and they didn't stray from the facts that they were there to present. they were consistent with their testimony that they had given in closed session, which the transcripts had been released. they are consistent with the information that we've learned from the released july 25th phone call between the president and president zelensky. they are consistent with what we know of what some other witnesses have said, including

the text messages that took place between ambassador taylor and ambassador sondland. so, so far, these are credible witnesses. they demonstrated and they provided to the american public yesterday their history of service to the country. there is no reason to doubt their credibility, their motivations. they took pains, i thought, to present themselves as fact witnesses and people that have been in the service of country, not as political opponents, not there with any ax to grind, not there to be voluntary players in an impeachment inquiry. >> ross garber, you teach impeachment law at tulane law school. was this potentially an abuse of power by the president of the united states? >> yeah, i think what we're going to wind up getting to is the question of, why was he doing what he was doing? and you've seen the republicans throw out lots of different defenses. yesterday it was that these guys didn't have personal, you know, firsthand knowledge from the president. you know, you heard there was no

quid pro quo. i think what we'll get to is why was the president doing what he was doing? was he doing it because he honestly believed he was furthering u.s. foreign policy in the interest of the united states or was he doing what he was doing for his personal political benefit? that's a question that these witnesses didn't answer yesterday, and i think we need to hear more about. >> what do you think, john dean. how do you see it? >> i agree with gary totally. they were strong witnesses. they weren't partisan witnesses. cross-examination didn't lay a finger on them, didn't change their stories. just the opposite. elicited new information about this call with sondland that really thrusts him into the key witness, if not the star witness in these proceedings. >> how significant, carrie, was that phone conversation that the u.s. ambassador bill taylor said his political counselor at the

embassy overheard between the u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland and the president of the united states? they were having dinner. he was on a cell phone and overheard the conversation, david holmes. >> it's significant from a factual matter because we have another person who was working in government who heard independently a conversation between the president and ambassador sondland confirming that the president was interested in an investigation into the bidens which has no legitimate foreign policy purpose. >> well, maybe. >> an investigation into the bidens? >> i think what we're going to hear from the president and his team -- and it's no secret. i'm going to be sort of the debbie down or that conversation. you know, number one, i want to hear exactly what this person overheard. but second and more important, i don't think there's any mystery that the president expressed an interest in an investigation of burisma. i think that's been well

established. i don't think that's going to be an issue. and the question is why? as i said before. and i think what we're going to hear from the president and his team is that the president had a legitimate concern about corruption in ukraine and potentially emblem atic of that corruption would be these payments going to hunter biden, the son of the vice president when the vice president was in charge of ukraine policy and in fact it was actually troubling to one of the witnesses yesterday. so troubling that one of the witnesses raised concerns at the state department. >> at the time, that was george kent, the deputy assistant secretary of state. >> well, the reason, though, that that information is going to come out as being politically motivated, that's why this phone call becomes so important and why dwogordon sondland's testim in open session becomes so important. according to the way bill taylor described it yesterday, this individual was listening to a phone call that demonstrated that the president was not interested in the united states' interest, was not interested in

the foreign policy objectives and bolstering ukraine and continuing u.s. foreign policy support for ukraine, but he was interested in a political investigation. >> it's so unusual for a president to speak directly to an ambassador. i'm telling you, in the history of the united states, probably hasn't happened five times. >> gordon sondland was not just an ambassador. he gave a million dollars to the trump inaugural committee. >> a lot of them have given a million dollars. >> a lot of these who are political appointees, friends of a president, they speak with a president all the time. >> not so much. >> in a lot of administrations i've spoken to a lot of these ambassadors and they tell me -- >> i was in an administration where the president -- >> i don't know about the nixon administration. i'm talking about the bill clinton administration, i spent almost eight years covering that administration. there were political appointees and career diplomats, political appointees who were friends and would call and talk to the president.

we can discuss this. there's a lot more still to come. we're going to be following all these developments. the diplomat george kent says that marie yovanovitch was the target of rudy giuliani's smear campaign, and now ousted ambassador yovanovitch gets to tell her story tomorrow in the second public impeachment hearing. and the white house is getting its response in high gear. kellyanne conway, counselor to the president, she'll join us live. that's coming up in a few minutes. also, the democratic field is getting larger today with former massachusetts governor deval patrick saying he is the person to defeat donald trump. (alarm beeping) welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. can we have both? at bp, we're working every day to make energy that's cleaner and better. and we see possibilities everywhere. to mtthe bad news?t's our so will this recital.day.

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felt threatened by comments that the president made. yovanovitch could shine more light on the alleged smear campaign against her, she says led by rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer. the developments could be very significant. cnn's jessica schneider is joining me with more on what we can expect from the former ambassador. this could be a powerful bit of testimony on her part. >> it likely will be powerful. we're likely to hear her echo what she said in that closed door testimony about the extensive efforts of rudy giuliani and his associates to remove her from her post which happened in may. yovanovitch will take center stage tomorrow where she'll discuss her duties as u.s. ambassador to ukraine since 2016 where she really led the call on the ukrainian government to do more to fight corruption. of course, it was in may where she was unexpectedly recalled from her post, despite being a diplomat since 1986. her tough treatment is something

that both george kent and bill taylor touched upon in their testimony yesterday. >> i became increasingly aware of an effort by rudy giuliani and others, including his associates lev parnas and igor fruman to run a campaign to smear yovanovitch. >> when secretary pompeo askedny go back to kyiv, i wanted to say y but it was not an easy decision. the former ambassador masha yovanovitch has been treated poorly caught in political machinations in kyiv and washington. i feared those problems were still present. >> in fact, marie yovanovitch was quite blunt in the closed door testimony. her transcript revealing she felt tlented by the president's associates as they worked to undermine her and have her removed. she recounted how a ukrainian official told her to, quote, watch my back. she was encouraged by gordon

sondland to praise trump. sondland suggesting she tweet praise at the president over twitter to save her job. and then when the attacks against her ramped up within the right wing media, particularly from fox news host sean hannity, that's when yovanovitch said she was told that secretary of state mike pompeo or someone around him at the state department planned to actually call sean hannity and ask about the basis of those attacks but hannity has pushed back, wolf, saying that he never talked to secretary pompeo. marie yovanovitch tomorrow likely to set the stage about this rogue and shadow foreign policy that rudy giuliani was pushing. one thing she probably won't be able to talk about, she talked about it in the closed door testimony is how since she was removed from her post in may it was really before the withholding of that military aid so she probably won't get into that as much but we'll talk about giuliani's efforts and this rogue foreign policy. >> in that closed door deposition we all read the transcripts, she says how she felt threatened. she was getting warnings.

>> watch her back. >> it was an ugly situation for this career diplomat who spent 30 years in the state department serving democratic and republican presidents. thanks very much for that, jessica. joining us now to discuss all of this, democratic congressman mike quigley of illinois. he was asking questions yesterday. thanks so much for joining us. >> good morning. thank you. >> so what did you think of your committee accomplished yesterday? what was the main point that you learned? >> look, two of the cream of our diplomatic corps in a clear and convincing and credible way began to tell the story to the american people how the president of the united states helped create a shadow foreign policy for his own political benefit, contrary to the longstanding u.s. foreign policy in ukraine. >> let me play this clip from ambassador bill taylor, the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine from his testimony yesterday. listen to this. >> following the call with

president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. mr. sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden which giuliani was pressing for. >> what was your reaction to that, congressman? >> look, it's shocking, but in another sense, not surprising. i think you can read the president's transcript of his call that the white house released. the fact that he ordered omb to withhold military aid tells us enough. no matter exact the circumstances are in ukraine, you don't imperil an ally. you don't threaten their national security and, therefore, our national security, by threatening to withhold aid, aid frankly i don't think would have gotten there if it wasn't for the whistle-blower and the fact that congress called the president on it. >> the aide who the political counselor, the political affairs counselor at the u.s. embassy in ukraine who overheard this

conversation between the president and the u.s. ambassador to the eu, he's going to be appearing behind closed doors tomorrow before your committee. what do you hope to learn from this individual, david holmes, a senior state department official? >> look, there's a lot of details there and the nuance is going to matter, the circumstances. obviously, exactly what he heard. it also makes ambassador sondland's testimony next week all the more interesting and intriguing. my message to the ambassador is, it's never too late to do the right thing. he's already amended his testimony once. it will be interesting how he does that again next week given yesterday's revelation. >> congressman, you have a lot of pushback, a lot of feedback from what you said yesterday about the value of so-called hearsay evidence. this is what you said. i'll play the clip. >> i think the american public needs to be reminded that countless people have been convicted on hearsay because the

courts have routinely allowed and created, needed exceptions to hearsay. hearsay can be much better evidence than direct as we have learned in painful instances. and it's certainly valid in this instance. >> all right. so among others, donald trump jr. was tweeting this morning saying basically you're wrong. you don't know what you're talking about. i want you to explain your point. why is hearsay evidence better than direct evidence? >> well, first, i am sure don's done a lot of trials in his life. i've done probably over 200. so i might know what i'm talking about. the first message is this. if you don't like the testimony, if you don't like the evidence, quit blocking what everyone imagined would be much more direct evidence. mick mulvaney, blocked. john bolton, blocked. rick perry. their testimony is blocked. so don't complain that the evidence isn't direct enough when you are blocking what

would, obviously, be more direct evidence. as far as the rules of evidence, they are not going to apply in proceedings like this. but the federal rules of evidence which i'm sure don knows so much about, create 23 exceptions to the hearsay rule. so, obviously, the courts understand just how credible it is. in the final analysis, it's how credible it is. yesterday's testimony, often secondhand, was as credible as it comes. we know from experience in criminal courts that sometimes direct evidence, something like an eyewitness testimony, can be extraordinarily faulty. but we also know that what we might think of as hearsay, indirect evidence, the exceptions might be an excited utterance or statement against an interest. we've learned from time -- time and time again just how credible it can be. it's not that one is necessarily better than the other.

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right now lawmakers here in washington are preparing for friday, for tomorrow's open hearing. the u.s. ambassador to ukraine

removed, marie yovanovitch, will speak publicly for the first time. she was abruptly recalled from her post back in may by the president. perhaps the most anticipated testimony will come next week. the u.s. ambassador to the european union, gordon sondland will face very serious questions over new evidence of a phone conversation between him and president trump. i'm joined by kellyanne conway, the counselor to the president. kellyanne, thanks for coming in. >> thank you, wolf. >> i assume you've spoken to the president since the testimony, since the hearings yesterday. >> i'm one of the people briefing him on things we're seeing and we're hearing because he wasn't. we were -- a bunch of us were meeting on two unrelated issues. obviously president erdogan of turkey here yesterday to discuss what that nato ally continues to do to help us keep isis defeated, the physical caliphate and the like. really look into the fact they seem to be buying weaponry or

aircraft from russia and that we have billions of dollars in defense equipment exchanges. so that's important. and they had a press conference. you saw it. but i think -- >> how is he reacting to the testimony -- >> the president was very placid. >> he said he didn't watch a minute of it. >> not that i saw. >> others have briefed him. how is he reacting? >> pretty well. i'll tell you why. there was nothing new yesterday. you're calling that evidence respectfully. in a real court of law we'd not be referring to something as evidence that is, oh, someone on my staff recalled overhearing a conversation between someone else and the president where they think they heard the president use the word investigations. this is not what due process and the rule of law in our great democracy allows. and we can't have a lower standard for the president of the united states. we certainly shouldn't have a lower standard for the impeachment and removal of a democratically elected president. >> bill taylor, the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine, he was sent there by mike pompeo, the secretary of state.

here is what he said about that phone conversation. >> replay the clip. i want to say something else. he also admitted he had no idea what the president was thinking about ukraine. he's never been in a call or meeting with the president. he's never met the president. that's important. >> here's what he said about the conversation. >> in the presence of my staff, at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden, which giuliani was pressing for. >> that's a pretty serious exchange comment he made.

david holmes who was the aide who overheard this conversation and -- >> allegedly. allegedly. >> well, this is the allegation. >> allegedly and we should remind you -- >> by the way, he's going to be appearing behind closed doors tomorrow. >> he is because his name emerged for the first time yesterday. this was not raised previously when the ambassador taylor testified privately in depositions. now again, in a real court of law, that would be objected to as hearsay. you're telling us what somebody else said or overheard. he'll be asked, how close were you to the phone? have you ever heard the president's voice on a phone before? were you in a restaurant? how noisy was it? >> that's questions for david holmes but ambassador sondland is going to be publicly testifying next wednesday. and he will certainly be asked about that phone conversation that we all learned about yesterday. >> ambassador sondland will also be asked, why did he say there was no quid pro quo, that he asked the president directly,

what do you want from ukraine and the president said, i want them to do what they said they were going to do. he ran on a platform of anti-corruption. we want him to make good on that. the facts are important. ukraine got the aid. $400 million in lethal aid. they got more aid from president trump than they ever got from president obama even though russia invaded crimea -- >> let me push back a little bit. ukraine got the aid after congress was told about the whistle-blower complaint, after congress had already opened up a special investigation, and after the president himself was being told by his republican friends up on capitol hill, what are you doing? why are you withholding this nearly $400 million in security assistance for ukraine at a time when the russians are killing ukrainians? >> right. but you're seeing causation where there may be coincidence. and nobody has tied that together except to insinuate. people like adam schiff are not

under oath. these witnesses, including taylor and kent have never met the president. that's one thing i said to the president yesterday. i can't believe they've never even been in a meeting with you. >> well, there are people who were in plenty of meetings with the president like mick mulvaney, john bolton, the fired national security adviser. the white house won't let them testify. if the president has nothing to hide if the phone conversation was perfect, why not let them tell the american public in open session, you know, under questioning from democrats and republicans, what they learned. >> you're asking us to comply with an impeachment inquiry that our white house counsel said in a letter -- you didn't interrupt alexandria ocasio-cortez last night. she got to talk and talk. i'd like a little bit of that. i've been around awhile. thank you. we have nothing to hide but why should we comply with an impeachment inquiry that our white house counsel said in a letter to the public on october 8th is illegal and unconstitutional, ill conceived?

why are we doing this? it's important they got the aid and overnight the foreign minister of ukraine said that there was never a connection made between investigating the bidens or anyone else and the aid. that's the finance -- that's like our secretary of state, the chief diplomat. president zelensky said at the u.n. general assembly for the whole world to see that he felt no pressure. why is it not important to this entire conversation that the two presidents in the countries that are involved and their two top diplomats say there was no investigation. and can we talk about the bidens. investigate the bidens. >> here's somebody who has direct evidence, firsthand knowledge of what was on the president's mind. we're talking about the president of the united states. here is what he said about investigating the bidens on october 3rd. >> what exactly did you hope zelensky would do about the bidens after your phone call? >> if they were honest about it, they'd start a major

investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer. they should investigate the bidens. >> he's talking about burisma. he's talking about the fact that hunter biden even told abc news, but for his last name, he knows he had no qualifications to have these well-compensated board seats and retainers and then to fly on air force two with his father, then the vice president of the united states to china, to get a little more money. but vice president biden had ukraine in his portfolio, and it does strike people as swampy if not worse, that his son would have a seat on burisma, an energy company being investigated. >> is it appropriate for the president of a united states to ask a foreign leader to investigate an american political nemesis, potential rival in a campaign? is that appropriate? >> that's not what the president was asking. he was asking to investigate what the bidens were doing in 2016, or even before that. he never mentioned 2020. i have the transcript. i walk around with it.

i'll show it to you. where is 2020? >> he didn't say basically -- >> he said to president -- >> we don't impeach presidents on basically. >> and, obviously, the u.s. at that moment, zelensky may or may not have known what was going on, was withholding the $400 million in assistance. but he was basically saying we youpt to investigate the 2016 election, the democratic server and all of that and the bidens. >> and this was the day after director mueller testified to congress, wolf. so this was still on everybody's mind. why did the russian collusion investigation and cnn and mueller and everybody else have two-plus years to dig into all of that but the president can't have two hours after mueller was a complete bomb, the testimony was not compelling, as you know. it was a sequel to the mueller report which was as uncompelling as the mueller report. and we can't -- >> but you understand campaign finance laws in the united states. >> of course i do. >> any time campaign contributions, in the rough transcript the president says, i

would like, this is the conversation with zelensky. i would like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot and ukraine knows a lot about it. i'd like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with ukraine. they say crowdstrike. that goes back to the 2016 election, dot, dot, dot, i guess you have one of your wealthy people, dot, dot, dot, the server, they say ukraine has it. that's pretty specific. the president raised those whole issues -- >> about 2016. never mentioned 2020. never mentioned bien as -- >> biden was the front -- he was then the front-runner. >> oh, please. that's silly that he was the front-runner. >> all the polls at that time -- >> because a bunch of people on panels say he's elect able and is going to be the nominee? we know what happened to electability. we focused on the electoral college and got donald trump elected. you just made my point for me that president trump was focused on 2016. there was an article by ken

vogel on of politico, on january 11th, 2017, nine days before the inauguration, the same night i came on anderson cooper's show and respectfully pushed back on the cnn reporting which was false about jim comey briefing the president. ken vogel wrote the article how ukraine was actively trying to help hillary clinton and they were against donald trump. >> do these diplomats -- >> let's not pretend the president is inventing this out of thin air. he has every right to ask ukraine to help look back at 2016 the way cnn felt it had every right to look back at russia in 2016 for over two years. >> does the -- do you have confidence these american diplomats who have been testifying about all of this career diplomats with distinguished record. >> i have confidence -- >> do you believe they are telling the american public the truth? >> they are telling the american people the most important truth they've told the american public is that they weren't on the phone call. they've never been on any phone call. they've never met the president. i was astonished to hear that. they never even met the president of the united states. never had a conversation with

him. >> did ambassador sondland meet with the president, talk to the president, does he have firsthand knowledge? >> he didn't testify yesterday. he changed his testimony. >> he says his memory was refreshed and that, yes, he basically confirms what the other diplomats are saying. there was this so-called quid pro quo. >> he's changed his testimony -- >> does the president believe in ambassador sondland. >> the president knows what the truth is here which is you're not going to ever look at that transcript and find 2020 or biden is my spooky, scary political opponent. respectfully, wolf, we need ukraine to help us defeat joe biden about as much as we needed russia to help us defeat hillary clinton. joe biden and hillary clinton give us all the material that we need to help defeat them and that's just a fact. but it has to matter to you and your viewers around the world that the american president and the ukrainian president have said no quid pro quo. no pressure applied. it has to matter that our chief diplomat, secretary pompeo, like his counterpart, the foreign minister in ukraine, has said no

connection between the aid and the investigation. there was no investigation. the aid was released. they are using the aid right now to help in their military defenses. and it has been reported, i'm sure you know, that president zelensky was scheduled to come on cnn. he never came on cnn to do whatever it was he was going to do. you could have still had him on. isn't it great that president trump gave you javelins? they are better equipped now to fight russia. >> let me get your reaction to the breaking news we're getting from gloria borger involving the trump d.c. hotel. a sales pitch boasting of millions to be made from foreign governments. in its toefrts sell off the lease to the trump international hotel in washington, the trump organization has put together a glossy investor brochure complete with pictures, showcasing the hotel's grandiose architecture, central location and its spa himalayan salt chamber. the hotel's biggest selling point, according to a copy of the brochure, is the one thing that the trump family insists it

didn't take advantage of, profiting off foreign governments. quote, tremendous up side potential exists for a new owner to fully capitalize on a government related business upon rebranding of the asset reads the 46-page investment pitch. >> i haven't seen it but i'm confused. we are impeaching and removing a democratically elected president that the 2020 field -- >> this has nothing to do with impeachment. this is just getting your reaction to the news. >> it sounds like a great spa and a wonderful place to have a meal. what is the news, though? because i don't always hear the news. >> the trump international hotel is going to be leased and they are pitching that all these foreign governments have been spending a lot of money at the hotel. >> it's a great hotel. have you been there. the food is delicious. the hotel is great. proximity to many -- >> the emoluments clause that while the president is in office, he shouldn't be making a profit, his family shouldn't be making a profit. that's in the constitution. >> the family, beginning with

president trump, have made financial sacrifices to be the president of the united states because the usual political motivators never applied to him. the power, the money, the position. look what former presidents are making and buying and doing all across -- look at the person he beat whose name i won't say less i be accused of still saying her name. what has she done for women and girls? she's still talking about herself and russia and the 2016 election. it's weird. there are lots of lawsuits about emoluments. so we'll see what happens with those. but this, again, i think you're making the case that are we trying to just make people be against president trump, the democratically elected president, or are we trying to impeach him? trying to get rid of him? you did an interview with senator angus king in may of 2017 where you said are we getting closer to impeachment? that's 2017. >> people were talking about it early on. >> people were talking about it. "the washington post" did it 19

minutes after the president was sworn in as he was making his way to a luncheon at the capital to say thank you to bill and hillary clinton for being here. and was very kind to them. let's just call this for what it is. i would respect people more if they said, you know, i just don't -- i don't like his supporters. i think they're toothless hillbillys with curly toe nails. they're uncouth. i'd respect people more if they said i didn't vote for him and probably won't again which probably reflects a lot of people here and elsewhere in the mainstream media. just be clear about what we're doing here. if you want to talk about history and think today say day for history, talk about the 124 history making days in the stock market since trump got elected. the historic low unemployment rates. talk about the wage growth for blue collar workers like the ones i grew up around. talk about the deregulatory agenda. the cdc overnight said for the second consecutive year that

overdose deaths are down. >> i just have a final question, a sensitive question, and it's a political question, it's a substantive question. i don't want to talk about your marriage. i know that there are issues there. your husband george conway -- >> did you just say there are issues there. you don't want to talk about -- >> no, i don't want to -- >> why would you say that? >> i don't want to talk about your marriage. i want to talk about a substantive point that your husband george conway made. he was on television all day yesterday during the first day of the impeachment hearings and said this about the president of the united states. i just want your reaction to the substance of what -- >> so before you play the clip which i haven't said. why and why are you doing that? >> because he's a legal scholar. he's a lawyer and was really going after the president of the united states. >> and the relevance is -- and -- come on. wait for it. drum roll. and he's married to me? >> he happens to be married to you. >> you can run the clip of jeffrey -- he happens to be married to you.

>> he's also a legal scholar. he's got a substantive point. >> jeffrey toobin's point, i loved his point is cnn yesterday. we don't have to play a competitor's clip. just play the cnn clip where jeffrey toobin said it's a problem that taylor and kent never met donald trump. he said -- it's a problem. >> i'm not disagreeing with -- >> jake tapper said something like -- >> i'm not disagreeing with either of them. >> they might have to meet the whistle-blower. at least talk to him or her. him, in private because you have to be able to confront your accused. >> right. but you should not have just said to your audience, i don't want to talk about your mortgage marriage, quote, i know there are issues. >> i don't want to talk about your marriage. >> why would you say there are issues? >> listen to what your husband said. i'll play the clip. >> the problem with donald trump is, he always sees himself first. trump is all about trump. and that's why it was inevitable

he'd get himself into this soup once again. and that's what this is all about. he's using the -- he was using the power of the presidency. its most unchecked area, foreign affairs, to advance his own personal interest as opposed to the country's. >> all right. that's a serious allegation. a serious charge. he was using the power of the presidency, its most unchecked area, foreign affairs, to advance his own personal interest as opposed to the country's. >> that is his opinion. and we -- i don't think msnbc was lacking for anti-trump voices. and we've heard things like that said on cnn for three years. and we've heard things like that said on that network for three years and elswise. and where -- honestly, where is the shame? where is the introspection of people who have said for three years, respectfully, wolf, actually beginning in may of 2017, i'll quote your wife's husband right now, i won't talk about your marriage but i'll quote your wife's husband.

2017 you asked angus king, are we getting closer to impeachment? does anybody ever feel badly about getting it so wrong? we sort of look the other way of how wrong everybody was here and elsewhere with the elections. i was on your network every single day as gracefully and respectfully as i could laying out the case as to why donald trump would beat hillary clinton. i have a living, breathing video catalog which is why i don't worry about anything when people say, i always knew he'd win. i said it all the time. because you were sleeping when i was on tv in the morning and at night. we have a leaving breathing catalog. we're going back to pennsylvania. it's the same stuff all the time. what you just quoted is said every day by other voices but you wanted to put it in my husband's voice because you think somehow that that will help your ratings or that you're really sticking it to kellyanne conway. and let me be very clear. you didn't stick it to kellyanne conw conway. i think you embarrassed yourself and i'm embarrassed for you because this is cnn now? i looked up to you when i was in

college and law school, i would turn on cnn to see what wolf blitzer had to say about war, famine, disruption abroad. i really respected you for all those years as someone that would give you the news and now it's what somebody's husband -- >> you know how many times we spoke about james carville and mary madeleine, a democrat and a republican happily married individuals who totally disagreed on all sorts of -- >> that's not the way you introduced this segment. >> you know how many times i'd ask them on television about the conferences they had? they didn't get into a sensitive discussion as long -- >> i'm not in a sensitive discussion. you are. you chose to do this. >> they would often totally disagree on television. they would have a serious discussion. your husband made a serious -- >> you know what mary madeleine thinks of your line of questioning right now? because i know. >> i haven't spoken to mary madeleine in awhile. she's a lovely woman. james carville. >> he's brilliant.

he helped do what i helped do. >> i was just trying to get you to react to this allegation that the president was using the power of the presidency, its most unchecked area, foreign affairs, to advance his own personal interest as opposed to the country. and you said fairly you disagree. >> i respectfully disagree and i'll tell you why. you know who else disagrees? you know who else doesn't have information of that? the people who testified yesterday. because they also don't know the president. they've never met the president. they admitted that yesterday. they were in no such calls about this. >> which is a fair point. >> it's an essential point. it's not just a fair point. >> there will be others who will testify -- >> we're not going to impeach and remove a president from office based on what he said, she said, he thought. cia does not stand for conjecture, interpretation. you want to impeach and remove the president, go for it. but you know what's going to happen after that? a lot of those 31 democrats who won in districts in 2018, that

trump and pence carried in 2016, they are going to have to say good-bye. they won't be re-elected. they have to go home and face their own voters and they'll say, i voted for you because you stood in my community and promised you would get that trade deal passed. you promised you would help the taxpayers and property owners and farmers. you promised you would keep this country -- this economy humming along. you promised you'd get infrastructure and broadband to every kid. all these kids are sitting in parking lots trying to get the wifi to do their homework way after dark. i've spoken with members like congressman jim clyburn and ben ray luhon of new mexico to see how we can help. work together on such an essential issue. where are they? they're trying to impeach the president. so those democratic members in the swing districts, they are going to be held to account by their voters. and i think if the republicans take back the house in 2020, they'll look back at yesterday, interviews like this, and moments like this week and they're going to say, that was a

big reason why some of these members lost because they have to go back and say the voters will say what have you done for me lately? you work for me? you wasted my time and money. what have you done for me. they'll have to say, i impeached the president and they'll be impeached themselves. unelected. >> you've been very generous with your time. >> thank you. i'm a very jgenerous, kind persn and you have people at cnn who live on twitter. i choose to live offline. it's a much -- just a much better life to live offline than online. that's their choice but they love to do what you just did also and that's unfortunate because again, this is cnn now. you have and cable news network. and respectfully, i think a bunch of gossip girls and a bunch of opinion making and pontificating is not the way i looked at cnn. cnn gave me a chance. they hired me in 1996. i'm sure your viewers will freak out. when very few people were paid to go on tv. you were always kind. judy woodruff. and when i was just starting out in my polling career and on tv,

and i just can't believe that it's come to conversations like this. but, you want to impeach the president, impeach the president. >> we have a very substantive conversation. >> that's what i do. i speak with no notes and no net. >> we gave you plenty of time to make your points and you did. you're always welcome to come back and join me here. >> you'll stay in my prayers. thank you. >> thank you for joining us. we'll take a quick break. we'll be right back. four times. 100 times. (vo) that's why your unlimited plan now comes with disney+ on us for a year. because the network more people rely on gives you more.

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>> reporter: you already think you know what the outcome is. why do you want to watch it? what's so important about it? >> is this like a person that watches soap operas. it's bad acting and all of that. i'm curious to see what this hearing is going to be. >> reporter: like a lot of americans, randy and terry already have their opinions about president trump as potential impeachment. and like a lot of americans, they're going to watch every second of the hearings anyway. >> i don't think it's going to hurt trump. i could be surprised. >> reporter: terry is the chair of the forest county wisconsin republican party. randy is a republican, too, but he isn't as strong a supporter of the president as his wife is. >> where do you put yourself on the party spectrum these days? >> i am maga republican. >> reporter: terry attends a lot of gop events around her state and spreads the message on social media. >> i'll tell you the truth, yesterday on my facebook page i said, okay, guys, quid pro quo for dummies.

go. i never heard that term before this. so i got a lot of good advice about it. >> what did you learn? >> well, i learned that throughout history presidents make deals. they kind of twist arms. not violently but, i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. >> reporter: terry is convinced the president did nothing wrong. >> you don't think he's opened himself up for today like he put himself in a little bit of hot water creating this -- the reasons for this hearing? >> no. i really don't. that's trump. it's like, do we want trump not to be trump? no. >> reporter: outside, it was freezing and snowy. the perfect day to watch hours of tv with amber, the hound. a few hours in, and randy wasn't as convinced of trump's total innocence as terry was. >> did the thought ever occur to you that it would be possible that donald trump did not know

what he did was wrong and he was just like the natural dealmaker that he is? >> reporter: in the late afternoon, the impeachment party got bigger. mike monty showed up. he's friends with terry and randy and owns the local newspaper, the "pioneer express." terry and mike have very different takes on the man of the hour. >> what do you think that mike doesn't get about president trump? >> that trump is not a politician. he's not politically correct. he, you know, basically plays to his own drummer. >> you don't know where he's going to be, and it can change from day-to-day. >> reporter: mike didn't vote for trump in 2016, and he's not going to vote for him in 2020 either. so his opinion about the president is also already set in stone. >> this is all speculative right now. but i think democrats are going to look ridiculous. >> he's not royalty. he works for us.

>> if he is found guilty or not guilty or he's impeached or not, i just don't see it having a dramatic effect. and it's kind of like, most working people are never going to see these hearings. they're going to turn on their news show that supports whatever party they like, and read their spin on it. >> that report from evan mcmorris-santoro. thanks very much, evan, for that. good morning. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we want to welcome our viewers here in the united states and around the world. the stakes are extremely high for the second impeachment hearing which is less than 24 hours away. this time tomorrow, we will hear from marie yovanovitch, the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine. she was reportedly pushed out from her role there after she pushed back on anti-corruption efforts. also tomorrow, behind closed doors, the political affairs counselor at the u.s. embassy in ukraine, david holmes who said

he overheard the conversation that the president had with the u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland about investigations into the bidens. he will be testifying as well behind closed doors once again. if true, that would connect the president even more directly with the alleged ukraine pressure campaign. president trump says he doesn't remember that phone conversation. also said it was secondhand information. but it all raises the stakes even higher for sondland's public testimony next wednesday. our team is covering all of the angles in this impeachment process. let's begin on capitol hill. senior congressional correspondent manu raju is watching all of this unfold. what's the latest? >> yeah, that's right. there's a lot of expectation for that gordon sondland testimony next week in the aftermath of this revelation by bill taylor yesterday that one of his aides overheard that conversation between president trump and sondland in the aftermath of the president's own conversation with the president of ukraine.

in that phone call that he had with his eu ambassador discussing investigations into the bidens. and afterwards, taylor testified that's what the president was most concerned about when it came to ukraine. pushing for these investigations. democrats say this essentially shows the extent of the president's pressure campaign to push the ukrainians to move forward with these investigations that could help him politically. yesterday bill taylor made very clear his aide reminded him of this conversation after he had testified behind closed doors. >> in the presence of my staff, at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. >> now i asked adam schiff, the house intelligence committee chairman afterwards about that revelation. he said that it shows that the president was directly involved

in all of these matters and the efforts by republicans to go after some of his underlings, some of his deputies and his aides simply does not -- this contradicts that republican push. and i also asked him whether or not he believes sondland was truthful to his committee. >> this is very, obviously, very important because there is an effort to -- apparently to, by the president's allies, to throw sondland under the bus, throw mulvaney under the bus, throw everybody under the bus in an toefrts protect the president. what this call indicates as other testimony has indicated is that the instructions are coming from the president on down. one of the reasons why we want to do these hearings in public having done the deposition in closed session is we want the american people to be able to evaluate the credibility of the witnesses for themselves. >> so that last little answer was in response to that question about whether or not sondland was truthful. he did not exactly say.

he said he'll let the american public judge that. recall that sondland did revise his testimony saying that he recalled later he had a conversation with a top ukrainian official saying that this aid, military aid to the country was likely tied to the public announcement of investigations but he could not recall how he remembered, how he knew of that and whether the president was tied to that at all. expect that to be a significant line of questioning when he goes before the public next week. wolf? >> all right. lots going on. manu, thank you very much. tomorrow the former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, expected to give key details bay so-called smear campaign led by the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani. cnn's jessica schneider is here with me watching all of this unfold. her testimony tomorrow could be rather significant. >> it will be. and it will be likely she'll expand upon this narrative about rudy giuliani's shadow campaign. she talked extensively in the closed door testimony about his efforts, his associates' efforts to oust her from her post which, of course, eventually happened

in may. so yovanovitch will take center stage tomorrow. she'll talk in detail about her duties as u.s. ambassador to ukraine since 2016 where she really led the call on the ukrainian government to do more to fight corruption. but in may, of course, she was unexpectedly recalled from her post. despite the fact that she was a diplomat, has been a diplomat since 1986 serving under numerous presidents. her tough treatment is something george kent and bill taylor touched upon in their testimony yesterday. >> i became increasingly aware of an effort by rudy giuliani and others, including his associates lev parnas and igor fruman to run a campaign to smear ambassador yovanovitch. >> when secretary pompeo asked me to go back to kyiv, i wanted to say yes but it was not an easy decision. the former ambassador masha yovanovitch, has been treated unfairly. caught in a web of political machinations both in kyiv and in washington. i fears that those problems were

still present. >> and marie yovanovitch expanded upon this and was quite blunt in the closed door testimony. her transcript revealing that she felt threatened by the president's associates as they worked to undermine her and have her removed. she, in fact, recounted how a ukrainian official even told her to, quote, watch my back. she also said that she was encouraged by eu ambassador gordon sondland to praise trump, even suggesting that she tweet praise at the president to save her job. and then she talked about when the attacks against her ramped up within the right wing media, particularly from fox news host sean hannity, that's when yovanovitch sid said she was told that mike pompeo or anyone else at the state department planned to call hannity and ask about the basis of those attacks but hannity has since said that he never talked to secretary pompeo. so marie yovanovitch will continue this narrative, expand upon the shadow foreign policy by rudy giuliani and his

associates but likely will not touch so much if at all on the withholding of military aid since she did talk in closed door testimony about the fact that she was gone before a lot of that unfolded. sbnge >> interesting. thank you. jessica schneider reporting. let's get more on how republicans are tackling this inquiry. i'm joined by representative mark green, a member of the house oversight committee. also the house homeland security committee. thanks congressman for joining us. >> thanks for having me on the show. thank you. >> what's your initial reaction to what we heard yesterday from these two established u.s. diplomats? >> you know, i was -- if this is their shock and awe, i'm yawning. so a staffer overheard a phone call in a restaurant. i think it's absurd that we're even having that conversation. that would not even be admissible in any kind of court proceeding in the land. it's just ridiculous that this is what -- this is the best they got? yesterday was the best they got

and it was an overheard phone conversation at a restaurant. that's just crazy. >> i was going to say, this was the political counselor, the counselor for political affairs at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. he was with ambassador gordon sondland, the u.s. ambassador to the european union and gordon sondland had a phone conversation on his cell phone with the president and the political counselor overheard the conversation. here is what bill taylor, the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine, said yesterday. i'll play the clip. >> thanks. >> in the presence of my staff at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded

that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden, which giuliani was pressing for. >> so what questions will you have for david holmes, the counselor of foreign affairs, when he appears before the committees tomorrow and offers this closed door deposition, sworn deposition? >> well, first off, you know if you go into the substance of what this is all about, whether or not the president should be concerned about corruption in the 2016 election process, worried about corruption as we give millions of taxpayer dollars to a foreign country, the third most -- as ernst & young has said, the third most corrupt nation in the world. absolutely, we want to look into this. we want this investigated and tomorr determine what corruption is going on before we invest u.s. tax dollars. i don't have a problem with the substance of that. >> should the white house allow people who had direct personal conversations with the president on these sensitive issues to

appear before congress which has now launched this formal impeachment inquiry? we're talking about the white house acting chief of staff mick mulvaney, the former national security adviser john bolton, for example? >> that's a great question, wolf. but the truth of the matter is, every president since the founding of the nation has had executive privilege. and the president has the right to claim that. so i think if he says, look, i don't want this individual testifying because it might lead to the, you know, release of classified information or, you know, the president's right to actually have a conversation with his or her advisers. i mean, that's just -- that's been in our governmental system, our executive powers for a very long time. and, you know, democrats and republicans have both claimed that. so i don't think that the congress can step into that. >> well, if you're worried about sensitive, classified information, they could certainly do a conversation in

the scif and they could do it like that. i guess the bottom line question is this, congressman, if the president did nothing wrong, has nothing to hide, if the conversation with president zelensky was perfect in every way, what's the big deal? why not let his top aides come up to capitol hill, come before your committees and explain what happened? >> i think it's about the future of the presidency. and lindsey graham made a great point about this just the other day. if you -- what you sort of acquiesce to today becomes the standard for tomorrow. and the president has executive privilege. he should claim it, and, you know, again, it's about the future of the presidency. >> congressman mark green, thanks for joining us. we appreciate it. >> great to be on your show. >> appreciate it very much. coming up, you just heard from a republican voice. democrats certainly have a very different strategy. what is their game plan going forward? that's coming up next. also -- gop house members attempted to downplay the credentials of two top diplomats who testified yesterday. does it make it harder for

current state department officials to do their jobs? we have new information. and the white house kicking its response team into high gear saying the first day of impeachment hearings was a big win for the trump administration. we'll have more on that. lots of news. we'll be right back. ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪

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conduct that links back to president trump. on the other side, republicans focusing more on the day at hand, discrediting the witnesses, sticking to the talking points about the lack of any firsthand knowledge. as we saw in this line of questioning from republican jim jordan. >> ambassador, you weren't on the call, were you? you didn't listen in on president trump's call? >> you never spoke with mulvaney? >> that's correct. >> you had three meetings with zelensky -- >> and two of those they never heard about as far as i know. >> president zelensky never made an announcement? this is what i can't believe. and you're their star witness. you're their first witness. >> mr. jordan -- >> you are the guy, based on this. based on -- i mean, i've seen church prayer chains that are easier to understand than this. >> so when marie yovanovitch, the former ambassador to ukraine takes the stand, can she expect

republicans to take the same approach? let's bring in our panel of experts to discuss. nia-malika henderson, what do you think about this strategy the democrats have versus the strategy the republicans have? and then most of next week as well. >> i think they'll stick to it. this is what we've seen from republicans already. this idea that there's no, you know, first or third or fourth hand knowledge, whatever it is. where is the whistle-blower? you heard devin nunes in his closing arguments essentially make all those points. questions about hunter biden. questions about the dnc server. some of those conspiracy theories they're trying to put those into the hear,s as well. and, listen, democrats so far have gone about this in a very methodical way. they've got about a dozen witnesses or so. we'll hear from them day by day and they want to lay out a case. much like the case bill taylor laid out in his 20-page opening statement going back from june when he assumed his post at mike pompeo's suggestion. and everything he saw unfolding there, that suggested that the

president felt very comfortable trading a $400 million in assistance to ukraine for dirt on his opponent. so, listen, we've got a long way to go on this. anybody who was expecting an ah-ha big moment may have gone away not happy. but, listen, it's day one. >> what do you think? >> it's not a tv show. i mean, i understand that the hearings are on television and that, therefore, that's giving america an insight into these fact witnesses. but there doesn't have to be this moment that is going to change everybody's mind. each fact witness is there to present their perspective of the optic that they had on what was transpiring. and what bill taylor was really effective at doing yesterday is he explained how when he was inside government, he was so confused and confounded by why the policy objectives he was trying to obtain were being undermined. and he didn't know why.

and the reason why through other evidence that we're going to -- that has come out and that will be confirmed by witnesses next week is that there was this other effort to obtain political information from the government of ukraine. and the issue that republicans are going to end up defending and this is a matter of conscience and their constitutional responsibility is are they at the end of the day going to defend that it's okay for a president to use his office to seek political information. >> see, i think they won't get to that question because there's nobody who is actually defending this call or this conduct towards ukraine as being appropriate in and of itself. what republicans are doing strategically, which i think has some resonance is focusing on outcomes. well, they got the aid in the end, didn't they? there's a question about why they did and whether the whistle-blower coming forward forced the president's hand. they got the aid. it was more robust aid than barack obama ever provided.

and this is trump being trump. he's inexperienced. he's brash. she's going to stand up to the bureaucracy. that's not what you impeach over. we have a process where nobody is going to defend what he did. they're going to focus more on how did you know it, and the ultimate case is it really worth impeachment? that's where different from the work you've done when impeaching a judge, this is where the movement, if it happens, of public opinion, it does matter. >> i think you actually may see, and i think you will see people defending the actual conduct. i don't think it's going to be defined the way carrie defined it as some sort of trade for political favor. the question is going to be, did the president have a legitimate purpose here, and i think what we're going to hear is that in his mind, he actually was addressing corruption. we started to hear that. he was addressing past corruption. he was addressing potential ukrainian influence in the 2016 election. i think we'll hear it. >> the republican lawyer was

trying to go. a lot of people panned him but he was trying to build this case. listen, it's completely legitimate for an american president to look into these issues, even though it happened to be about -- >> but i want to add to ross' point about doing a favor is that in the president's july 25th phone call with president zelensky, he actually said, can you do me a favor? >> yeah. >> that is what he said. >> no, and -- but the question is, the question will be why? was the point to address corruption? was the point to address, at least in his mind, potentially ukrainian influence in 2016? that is going to be the question. it's not going to be from the republican point of view, do me a favor for my political benefit. >> right. >> the chairman of the intelligence committee and i'm going to get carrie to react to this. adam schiff made this point yesterday. let me play the clip. >> i don't think we can allow that to be the new normal, acceptable in any way shape or

form or it will not only permit this president to seek other ways to bring about interference in our election. but it will invite future presidents to do the same. so we have some very difficult questions to answer at the end of the day about what these facts require us to do. >> what do you think? >> i think this is why we saw yesterday in the hearing a chairman schiff that presented the hearing in a very sober and somber way at the outset. which is because this is an issue that he and his committee members are trying to convince and appeal to members on the other side of the aisle and essentially in the senate to take their constitutional responsibility seriously and to be thinking about it in an historical way. that if the facts as they are fully explored through these witness testimonies indicate that the president's motivations were politically, personally motivated. and my own view is there's a lot of evidence out there that supports that view, then members are going to have to rise above

party and look at this from the precedent they are setting for a future president of either party. >> and this president right now, right? because he seems to think it's okay to get on the phone and ask a foreign leader to interfere in his own re-election for his benefit. so is this something that if he get offs and he is acquitted by republicans, is this something he could continue to do? so i think that's a line in the sand democrats want to draw. >> impeachment is a political bazooka. there's a constitutional duty here in terms of our elections as well. and i think the argument that is made very strongly is it shouldn't be the new normal. it's important for a president to conduct it this way. sure, i'll take opposition research on my opponent from wherever it comes. that should not be the new normal. and i think that would be an argument, some would say, to make sure the president doesn't get a second term by voting him out of office. that's where a lot of republicans will come down. the problem with this proceeding

is the notion of really moving people when you have such a polarized environment where people have made up their minds in advance. there was enough to muddy the water yesterday. i'm not sure how much has moved. >> it's not just republicans. keep an eye on the swing democrats. because, remember, two democrats -- all the republicans voted against even starting this process. two democrats voted against even starting this process. i think unless something changes, you know, speaker pelosi may have trouble holding on to all of those democrats who even voted to start this process to vote in favor of -- >> we'll see how these hearings continue tomorrow and throughout next week. everybody, stick around. nia, carrie, john and ross and david, too. john? who is john? two diplomats with decades of foreign service between them testify on the first day of the impeachment hearings. i'll talk to ambassador nicholas burns about being the face of america overseas while keeping politics out of it.

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i'll conclude by noting the immense damage a politicized democracy has done to american' faith in government. though executive branch employees are set by implementing the policies set by our president who is elected and responsible to the american people. elements of the civil service

have decided that they, not the president, are really in charge. >> republican congressman devin nunes, the top republican member of the house intelligence committee warning this impeachment process is doing damage to the country. also yesterday, democrats leaned away from the term quid pro quo appearing now to prefer the word bribery when referring to president trump's dealings with the government of ukraine. that word is in the u.s. constitution as an impeachable offense. let's bring in retired ambassador nicholas burns, a former under secretary of state for political affairs, former u.s. ambassador to nato. he is also a current foreign policy adviser to joe biden's presidential campaign. nick, thanks for coming in. are you comfortable with the way the career diplomats and you work with career diplomats your whole life, are playing such a pivotal role in this impeachment inquiry? >> i certainly am. i think they show the american people a different side to our government. serious, professional, informed,

nonpartisan. that's who bill taylor, george kent are. that's who yovanovitch is and she's going to testify tomorrow. i think if there's a silver lining in this dark impeachment cloud, i think it's been the foreign service officers who have put country first. >> listen to john radcliffe. had an important moment yesterday in the hearing when he put the two career diplomats, these two veteran american diplomats on the spot. asked them if the president committed an impeachable offense. listen to this. >> okay. very good. so in this impeachment hearing today where we impeach presidents for treason or bribery or other high crimes, where is the impeachable offense in that call? are either of you here today to assert there was an impeachable offense in that call? shout it out. anyone? >> mr. radcliffe, i am not here to do anything having to do with -- to decide about impeachment. that's not what either of us are

here to do. this is your job. >> what did you think about that answer. this is your job. >> i thought it was interesting a politician like radcliffe might be surprised that not everybody is political. that these two people, they are accustomed to being nonpartisan as they both said yesterday. they weren't there to try to say yea or nay on impeachment. they were there to provide the analysis or facts. they were subpoenaed to be there. >> these were diplomats who worked under democratic and republican presidents going back decades. and their job is to represent the united states government and do what's best for u.s. diplomacy. what's the impact of the criticism that's being leveled on diplomats having, on other career diplomats who are serving very often in rather dangerous situations around the world? >> the impact has been severe. it was objectionable to see congressman nunes say what he did. indict the federal workforce. we have a nonpartisan civil service. we are accustomed, certainly i

was, all my compatriots, working for republican and democratic presidents. and so when you see these political attacks on our career foreign service and you see the secretary of state mike pompeo not stand up and defend bill taylor and george kent, and not stand up and protect masha yovanovitch when she was pushed out by rudy giuliani, it's been dispiriting. there's a crisis of confidence in the state department. people don't feel respected. and that's a shame because they do so much for our country. >> and she was a highly respected u.s. diplomat. still is. she's on leave sort of at georgetown university here in washington right now. but she was really threatened with horrible calls and emails and stuff like that as a result of this. >> and you remember in the july 25th phone call, president trump speaks with a sense of vengeance against her. this is not the behavior of a rational government and of a rational president. >> what did you think of rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, conducting what

is being described as this shadow dip loamac diplomacy. >> how about the foreign policy impact of rudy giuliani and donald trump? george kent said a couple of times yesterday, look, for the 28 years that ukraine has been an independent state, all of the four previous presidents counseled the ukrainians, follow the rule of law. root out corruption. don't act like authoritarian thugs. and that's what president trump and giuliani asked the ukrainians to do. investigate one of our president's political rivals. there's a loss for the united states of credibility around the world when we're seen to be acting in an authoritarian way and we're the world's greatest democracy. >> nick burns thanks for coming in. appreciate it. the white house responds to the impeachment hearings. what's their message this morning? we'll be right back. discovered. pd-l1. they changed how the world fights cancer.

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president trump and the u.s. ambassador to the european union, gordon sondland, in which the president asked sondland about investigations into the bidens. joining us to discuss, our cnn senior white house correspondent pamela brown and chief national correspondent, the host of "inside politics," john king. i just finished speaking with the counselor to the president, kellyanne conway. this was her reaction to bill taylor the new revelations. listen to this. >> there was nothing new yesterday. you are calling that evidence, respectfully, in a real court of law we'd not be referring to something as evidence that is, oh, someone on my staff recalled overhearing a conversation between someone else and the president where they think they heard the president use the word investigations. this is not what due process and the rule of law and our great democracy allows. >> so, john, what's your reaction to what she says. this was nothing new. this is not evidence. >> number one, it's kind of rich for someone who works for the people who are saying president

to constantly throw out inwndo and rumor and conspiracy theory. in a court of law it would be hard to establish as evidence. this is a court of politics. the house has to make a decision. i get it. the white house strategy whether it's on this issue or anything else is to hold the republicans by making this as partisan as possible and questioning the character of the witnesses. she's right that somebody overheard the president on a phone call. it will not get you to the finish line but it does get you a new witness, and it increases the pressure on gordon sondland next week because he is the link to the president. all of the witnesses, including the white house witnesses, have established he had frequent conversations with the president. he was the person on the other end of that phone call. he's already revised his testimony once. if he has a good lawyer, that good lawyer is going to tell him, you can't revise your testimony a second or third time. when you go in next week you better tell the truth because if you have to fix it again, they call that perjury. and so the pressure on gordon sondland is enormous.

anything the white house says, anything the republicans say between now and then is strategy. they're just trying to buy time, distract people and let's see what sondland says. he was on the other end of that phone call. >> that's going to be a dramatic moment when he's there on wednesday. we're also learning that republicans are threatening to block white house emails after being inundated during the impeachment hearings yesterday. tell us about that. >> yeah, that's right, wolf. as you know, the white house had not set up a war room, much to the chagrin of gop lawmakers. and the white house may have overcompensated for not doing that beforehand because we're told our reporting is that white house legislative affairs staffers inundated gop lawmakers with talking points, with pushback from the hearing yesterday to the point that some of those lawmakers and staffers had to push back to the white house. ask them to stop sending emails to them.

basically they felt like they were being spammed by the white house. but this was all part of an aggressive strategy at the white house to really focus on messaging, on pushback. like i said, to maybe perhaps overcompensate for not having that system in place beforehand. and as you know, the white house was criticized for that. now what is key here is looking forward and what their messaging is right now. you guys talked about they are really focusing on this new revelation the white house was caught off guard by about this phone call between president trump and gordon sondland. now the white house is quick to say, look, this was hearsay. this is, you know, once again, hearsay upon hearsay. the problem with that, though, wolf, is the fact that this aide who apparently overheard this conversation, according to bill taylor, will be testifying behind closed doors tomorrow and then, of course, gordon sondland's testimony next week. and so we'll have to wait and see how all of this plays out. but certainly, depending on what happens behind closed doors and

next week with gordon sondland's testimony, the white house may need to come up with new talking points. a new strategy on that front. wolf? >> you know, pamela, john, a white house correspondent now. 21 years ago, you and i were cnn white house correspondents during the bill clinton impeachment process. a little less gray on your part, probably me, too. give us a little comparison. reflect on what was going on then at this time and what is going on. >> the craziness, if you will, is equal. we didn't have twitter in those days. it was not social media. i can't imagine what it would have been like. there's a fundamental difference. by the time the bill clinton impeachment got to congress, the president of the united states had given taped testimony to a grand jury admitting he lied about personal conduct. it was a different -- the question then was, was it an impeachable offense. no question that bill clinton had lied. then a debate about had he obstructed. but the basic facts were not in dispute. the big debate was, is it an impeachable offense? that may be where we get.

if the witnesses are as powerful as the two witnesses yesterday if the witness can corroborate that was the president's voice, we may get to a point where the facts are not in dispute. i don't know that the republicans would ever accept that in this environment. but 20 -- in the clinton years, the question was, this was personal conduct. is it an impeachable offense? here, this is -- did the president corrupt u.s. foreign policy for personal gain? it's a very -- it's professional conduct, if you will, as president of the united states. did he use the leverage, the resources of the united states government to help himself in domestic politics in so the issues at play, i would argue, the issues in terms of the use of government resources, the use of bending foreign policy. this is a more significant allegation but that's about using the united states government essentially warping it, taking the train off the tracks to help him politically, to help him pursue political vendettas. if that can be proven, it's a much higher offense. >> very important point. john king, thank you. pamela brown, thanks to you as

well. there's other important news unfolding. turkish president erdogan shocking republican senators during a white house meeting with the president. we have details about the -- what's being described as the propaganda video he shared with senators and the president in the oval office. that's next. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose.

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we're learning new details on the white house meeting with turkish president erdogan. the turkish leader showed a group of republican senators and president trump what's being purported as a propaganda video showing kurds in a very negative light. a source calling it surreal. joe johns is at the white house right now. tell us about this. >> reporter: good morning, wolf. visitors by erdogan to the white house don't seem to disappoint. this is another one of those cases, first report bid axios and confirmed by cnn. apparently during a meeting with five republican senators, who are critics of turkey policies, erdogan did, in fact, pull out an ipad and showed these senators what has been described as a propaganda video, essentially trying to make his case about the kurds. he, of course, believes that certain kurdish groups are essentially terrorist groups and trying to convince the senators

of that described, as you said, surreal and pure propaganda by people who were in the room. this, apparently, was a very tense meeting by all accounts. senator lindsey graham, senator ted cruz, both critics of erdogan, particularly of what he has done in syria when he essentially launched an invasion on northern syria and went after the kurds. so, there was talk about that. but probably the first thing on the agenda was the issue of a missile defense system that turkey apparently is considering buying. that missile defense system comes from russia and is not compatible with the u.s. f-35 fighter jet. the fighter jet, of course, is critical to u.s. defense and some people in the united states are concerned that if the technology of these two systems get melded the f-35's technology will be compromised.

other things important to note, erdogan also said he returned to the president of the united states a controversial letter that the president wrote him. this was a don't be a fool letter that so many of us have reported about. well, when you return a letter in diplomatic terms that, of course, is considered saying that this was an insult and so the reporting continues on the erdogan meeting. >> very sensitive stuff, indeed. joe johns, thank you. deliberations are about to begin in the roger stone trial here in washington. yesterday, prosecutors wrapped up their case, enforcing their view that the trump adviser lied about his involvement with wikileaks in order to protect donald trump. defense attorneys denying he knew anything about the russian hack of the dnc servers and they say stone had no reason to lie. the first day of public impeachment hearings raising the stakes. clearly new testimony puts u.s.

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good morning. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we want to welcome our viewers here in the united states and around the world.

conspiracy theories overlapping with u.s. foreign policy goals. tomorrow, that is what we expect to hear from marie yovanovitch, ousted ambassador to ukraine as she testifies in the second impeachment hearing. she says she was pulled from her post after the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, orchestrated a campaign to have her removed. also tomorrow, testifying behind closed doors, david holmes, an aide to ambassador bill taylor in ukraine. taylor shared the stunning revelation during wednesday's hearing, holmes apparently overheard a phone conversation where president trump asked the u.s. ambassador to the eu, gordon sondland about investigations into the bidens which, if true, would connect the president even more directly with the alleged ukraine pressure campaign. president trump says he doesn't remember the call and said it was secondhand information. but it all raises the stakes even higher for sondland's public testimony next wednesday. our team is covering all of the

angles of this impeachment process and they are dramatic. let's go back to capitol hill right now. senior congressional correspondent manu raju is joining us. what is the public plan of attack for tomorrow? zblf republicans are telling me that they plan to make very clear that marie yovanovitch, the ousted ambassador to ukraine didn't have any knowledge about the issues central to this impeachment inquiry, the decision to hold aid and to put on ice the meeting that was put on hold. they're going to say essentially she had no knowledge of any of those matters, also that the president was within his rights to remove this ambassador. the testimony itself, though, will say very clearly that she was targeted by rudy giuliani and his associates as part of what she believes is a clear smear campaign against her and the president, of course, dispatched rudy giuliani to push

ukraine, to push for those investigations, something that u.s. officials, including yov a. nochlt vitch ran counter to u.s. foreign policy. bill taylor's testimony from yesterday in which he linked the president to these calls for investigations, including this new revelation that one of his aides overheard a conversation between the eu ambassador, gordon sondland, and the president when the president discussed his push for ukraine to investigate the bidens. >> in the presence of my staff at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. the member of my staff could hear the president on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. mr. sondland told president trump ukrainians were ready to move forward. >> now democrat after democrat this morning, wolf, are telling me they believe gordon sondland misled the committee in his

closed deposition about his interactions with the president. do you think that gordon sondland was truthful to your committee? >> not completely. he certainly had gaps in either his memory or in his testimony. >> i think it's fair to say that that testimony wasn't fully candid and left out very important parts of what we now know to be -- >> he misled the committee? zblie believe he misled the committee. >> reporter: do you remember gordon sondland was truthful to the committee? >> no. it's pretty obvious he was not truthful to the committee. i think he shaves a lot of truth from his answers and i think he's going to have to pay for it. >> reporter: now that means the pressure is enormous next week on gordon sondland where he will be questioned about all those interactions with the president and why bill taylor testified that sondland told him directly about his conversations with trump which, of course, taylor

said that everything was contingent on this push for these investigations. we'll see if sondland reveals anything new about those conversations with the president. wolf? >> all right. manu, thanks very much. tomorrow is said to be a very significant day also on capitol hill as the former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch publicly testifies before all those cameras about an allegedly smear campaign led by rudy giuliani against her. jessica, she was unexpectedly pulled from her post by the president of the united states. >> and she'll likely have a lot to say to continue that narrative about rudy giuliani and his associates and their push to oust her from her post which, of course, eventually happened in may. so yovanovitch will take center stage tomorrow. she'll talk about her duties as ambassador to ukraine since 2016 when she led the call for

utilize cranian government to do more to fight corruption. despite being a diplomat since 1986, serving under three presidents, she was recalled and her treatment is something that both george kent and bill taylor touched upon in their testimony yesterday. >> i became increasingly aware of an effort by rudy giuliani and others, including his associates, lev parnas and igor fruman to lead a campaign to smear ambassador yovanovitch. >> i wanted to say yes but it was not an easy decision. former ambassador yovanovitch has been treated poorly, caught in a web both in kyiv and washington. i feared those problems were still present. >> yovanovitch talked about this in her closed door testimony last month, how she felt threatened by the president's associates as they worked to undermine her and have her removed and how a ukrainian

official told her, quote, watch my back. at the same time she was encouraged by eu gordon sondland to praise trump, even suggesting she tweet her praise at the president all to save her job. there were attacks she talked about against her that ramped up within the right wing media, particularly from fox news host sean hannity. yovanovitch said she was told mike pompeo planned to call hannity about the basis of those attacks but hannity said that never happened. one thing she likely won't talk about will be the military aid that was when would since, of course, that mostly transpired after she was removed in may. wolf? >> very, very important testimony coming up tomorrow. jessica schneider, thank you very, very much. joining us to discuss this and more, democratic congresswoman jackie speier of california, a member of the house intelligence committee. thank you so much for joining us. what do you think your committee accomplished yesterday?

>> i think our committee accomplished a great deal for the american people. we established that there was abuse of power. we, i think, are starting to develop the elements of bribery and there's great evidence about a cover-up. we had two foreign affairs individuals who have been part of our foreign relations for over 77 years testify. they have sterling reputations. and one of them a war hero, one with 27 years on ukraine, one is a deputy ambassador, and one as the ambassador. a wealth of knowledge. they were very clear, they were not never trumpers, even though the president tweeted that. they were nonpartisan and stuck to that. they wouldn't discuss impeachment at all. they were really remarkable americans. >> the republicans, though, and their allies, including those at the white house, they keep pointing out that both of these established diplomats only had

second or third-hand information, they never personally directly spoke, for example, with the president. what's your reaction to that? >> so, wolf, this is one of the white house talking points. let's break it down. first of all, we have the summary of the phone call, which the president has actually submitted as evidence that shows that there was this ask. that's what you have to have. we then have circumstantial evidence and we do have second-party and third-party information, all of which is legal even in a criminal trial. but more importantly, if you want to have first-party testimony, let's have mick mulvaney and john bolton come forward, both of whom have been prevented to speaking to the committee by the president himself. >> let me play a new clip. this is new information that came out yesterday from ambassador taylor, talking about this conversation that the counselor for political affairs at the u.s. embassy in ukraine had with gordon sondland.

listen to this. >> following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. mr. sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden, which giuliani was pressing for. >> how significant is that, congresswoman? >> well, it's obviously very significant. it was the big blow-up for both the republicans and the democrats yesterday because it was so explosive. what we have, though, is very interesting. you have a president of the united states who says i hardly know the european ambassador sondland except that the ambassador has the president's personal cell phone and evidently has it on speed dial. and you have, as a result of that overheard conversation, the president of the united states speaking and saying how about the investigations? this is all coming from the president of the united states. corruption in ukraine. the

let's talk about the corruption in the presidency. >> the counselor for political affairs at the ambassador of ukraine was in that conversation with ambassador sondland, overheard the conversations ambassador sondland had with the president. he will appear behind closed doors for sworn deposition before your committee tomorrow. what do you hope to gain from that deposition? >> we'll certainly get specific information about what he heard in that conversation and very directly what ambassador sondland said to him after the call when he asked the ambassador what does the president think about ukraine, and sondland's response was all he cares about is the investigations. he doesn't care about ukraine. >> you had an important exchange yesterday with the deputy assistant secretary of state george kent. let me play a little clip for our viewers.

>> mr. kent, did you actually write a memo, documenting your concerns that there was an effort under way to pressure ukraine to open an investigation to benefit president trump? >> yes, ma'am. i wrote a memo to the file august 16th. >> but we don't have access to that memo, do we? >> i submitted it to the state department subject to the september 27th subpoena. >> and we have not received one piece of paper from the state department relative to this investigation. >> so, congresswoman, what's the impact of that, that you're not getting that kind of information. >> it's profound and it speaks to the cover-up that the president has engaged in relative to this investigation. what do you have to cover up if you have done nothing wrong, if everything you've done is perfect? clearly, the fact that we can't speak to mitch mulvaney, mr. bolton, we can't access even one

specific piece of paper from the state department, let alone the file folders filled with documentation suggests to the american people and all of us that the president has something to hide. >> jackie speier, congresswoman speier, thanks for joining us. >> thank you, wolf. we'll discuss as the democrats hone in on the president's inner circle. plus a cnn exclusive. president trump's luxury hotel here in washington, d.c. is up for sale. the biggest selling point? something that the first family has denied profiting from. stay with us. our special coverage continues.

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this -- >> ambassador taylor, would you like to answer the question? >> suspend the time, please. i withdrew the question. >> we will suspend the clock. >> suspend the clock. one minute, please. >> ambassador taylor, would you like to respond to the question? >> i would like to say i'm not here to do anything having to do with -- to decide about impeachment. that's not what either of us is here to do. this is your job. >> talking about the impeachment hearing. >> there's no quid pro quo. nothing happened here. we're not going to impeach this president over this. we're not going to legitimize a hearing where you can only call democratic witnesses. it's over. it's done for me. >> why don't -- how do you think that this is going to -- >> it's over and done for me. if you exclude hearsay as basis for impeachment, which every court in the land would, unless there's an exception, i will not

allow it to come forward with my vote unless the whistle-blower comes forward. even though they're starting hearsay. they're the ones who started this. is there a connection between the whistle-blower, cia, biden or any other democrat? we're not going to let the president of the united states be tried based on anonymous accusation and based on a bunch of hearsay. >> procedurally, what are your options? >> excuse me. >> there are reports that a trial in the senate would last five to six weeks. >> i don't know. if you tried the president based on the rules that exist in courts in america, first rule is hearsay is not admissible unless there's a valid exception. if you use the hearsay rule, everything i heard falls virtually all of it. if you require the confrontation clause to be invoked and allow the whistle-blower -- require the whistle-blower to come forward i don't know how long that takes, but my point is that

we're going to do the trial based on due process, common to american legal system and that's my bottom line. and how long that takes, i don't know. >> procedurally, what are your options? you said you would not support moving forward with a senate trial but how do you stop it? >> resolution of 51. i'm not going to vote for any resolution that allows impeachment to be based upon hearsay upon hearsay. i'm not going to vote for any resolution that denies the president to confront his accuser, the whistle-blower. that's just me. the reason i don't want to do this is because we're legitimizing a process that i think say danger to the presidency itself. you're having hearings in the house where democrats only call witnesses, the whistle-blower is being shielded from examination, is fundamentally unfair. i don't want to legitimize this. democrats may like this today. if there's a democratic president and you've got a small majority of republicans in the house, you're basically going to destroy the presidency over time

if you continue this. how would you, as a member of congress, like to be on the receiving end of this? somebody said you did something wrong, the whistle-blower complaint, but you can't find out who they are and all the accusations against you are based on hearsay. this is a dangerous precedent set for the country. >> would you introduce a quick motion to dismiss? >> lindsey graham, speaking out forcefully. let's get some reaction. john king, what do you think? remember, just historic perspective, once again, you and i covered the bill clinton impeachment process 2 years ago. lindsey graham, i believe, was one of the leaders in the republican effort to impeach then president bill clinton. >> house manager back in the day. he's talking about hearsay. number one this is not a court of law. congress is not a court of law. he's talking about hearsay. lindh aye would remind lindsey graham, linda tripp heard it from a friend. like almost any case built yes, you can hearsay witnesses and then you have to prove it.

that is the democrats' challenge. look, what's dangerous, he used the word dangerous in the end there, is lying by members of congress. he knows -- he just knows most of what he said there is not true. it's misleading, hypocritical and reckless. to make the case that it's all hearsay, number one, we're going to have witnesses about that. if the democrats only have hearsay, they'll have to go forward with an impeachment based only on hearsay. but ambassador sondland is coming back next week. they believe he misled them. they asked him in his private deposition about his contacts with the president and did not disclose the phone call bill taylor disclosed yesterday to congress. we're not anywhere near the finish line here and the republicans are trying to stop the process. that's what lindsey graham is doing. >> to add to that point, wolf, lindsey graham is wrong. it's not a court of law. it's no that kind of process. if it were, you would have a grand jury proceeding, which

would be entirely secret. republicans would not have been allowed in the proceedings, as they were during those depositions. so he knows what he's saying is nonsense and not true. the other piece is i think the business about the whistle-blower, that the point, is beside the point. what do you need to hear from the whistle-blower for? the whistle-blower complaint talks about all of these people who interfaced with this process who thought it was inappropriate. there's a parade of them who are on the record now and in front of the television cameras saying why they thought it was inappropriate, including republican appointees by this president. that's the truth. >> think of linda tripp as the whistle-blower back in the day. then they proved true what she came to them. they proved something she said investigations are conducted. - that's how it works. >> what's not clear is how like-minded other gop senators are in terms of what we heard from lindsey graham there. he very much sounds like folks in the house we heard from yesterday, devin nunes, obsessed

with the whistle-blower and other folks in the house republican caucus. we don't know at this point where republicans are. so far, they seem to have been in lockstep with this president, in terms of other things he has done. mitch mcconnell sounds like he wants to have a regular trial and we'll see how that is. lindsey graham is sort of a different animal in some ways, different animal than he was when he was in the house and two or three years ago. >> it is understandable. the republican strategy is to hold republicans. we can say it's not true, hypocritical and point out contextual mistakes, the call weeks before and weeks after. if your view is keep house republicans or senate republicans or republicans out in the country from breaking from the president, you get it that way. one other point that came out yesterday, lindsey graham said republicans can't get witnesses. that's not true. three of the witnesses republicans requested are being brought in next week. they've not agreed to bring in hunter biden. >> or the whistle-blower.

>> they think those are stretches. one point yesterday that struck me, everyone kept saying hunter biden, hunter biden. he went to work in ukraine in 2014. there were stories about it at the time. there was a giant "new york times" investigative piece in december 2015 saying should joe biden be in charge of the ukraine portfolio in the obama administration when his son has this job? republicans were in the house and senate majority then. did they ever call a hearing when they were in the mantle? part of this is politics. lindsey graham is senate judiciary committee chairman. he could subpoena hunter biden to come before congress. they won't do it because they know nothing is there. >> to attack the process is step one. step two is focus on the outcome. ukrainians got the aid far more lethal than obama ever provided. trump is unorthodoxed, brash. no one will say it's appropriate to do it but we certainly shouldn't impeach him. that's what they're building toward, in terms of muddying the

waters. >> the argument that the democrats make against the president is if he was so concerned about what the bidens were doing in ukraine, hunter biden was on the board of this ukrainian gas company while his father was the vice president of the united states, effectively in charge of u.s. policy toward ukraine, why are they asking the ukrainians to investigate? >> right. >> why not go to the fbi or justice department? >> why are you asking a country that you think is corrupt. >> corrupt. >> to investigate what you see as corruption? so it's very bizarre, what he's trying to do. typically, you're right, the justice department, the fbi, whoever would look into any sort of wrongdoing. >> as john points out, why aren't there congressional hearings in the senate? they're the majority in the senate. they could have hearings. >> because to john's point there is no there there. >> there's swampiness. >> the appearance of impropriety, which was raised.

and this came up during the hearing yesterday, george kent sort of raised it as well, this idea that maybe this is not sort of the impropriety, appearance of impropriety, no actual wrongdoing. but listen, this sort of distract and delay. we saw that yesterday talking about the whistle-blower, for instance. that's going to be the republican rallying cry. the big question is, can it keep everybody together? >> lindsey graham says it's over and done for me. >> it never began for him. >> that's true. it never started. >> may be over and done for him but not for a lot of others. coming up, more important news. we're following. a showdown between republicans and career diplomats. what will the fallout be within the state department? stay with us. the lactose, so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then, i guess those things over there can't actually be cows.

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tomorrow the ousted u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch set to tell her story, second day of televised impeachment hearings against the president. secretary of state george kent testified for hours yesterday, sharing their expertise on the events that led up to president trump's phone call with the leader of ukraine. i'm joined now by the former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs under president obama. she also served as the deputy director of communications under president bill clinton. thanks very much for coming in.

>> sure. happy to be here. >> let's talk a little bit about the concerns that i'm sure you feel, some of the other diplomats feel over the way these two american diplomats have been treated by the trump administration, if you will. what do you think? >> well, bill taylor, firstly, someone i know. and, wolf, you know the foreign policy community in washington is a tight-knit group. so, eventually everybody knows everybody or a few degrees separated. bill, whether you were a democrat yesterday or republican, conservative, right wing, left, progressive, independent, you had to look at bill taylor and george kent. but for me particularly bill taylor and say soldier, statesman, man of honor. served two administrations, republican and democrat. that's as close as we're going to get to an american hero, isn't it? >> what do you think the way they describe rudy giuliani's role engaged, leading this

so-called shadow diplomacy away from what these guys were supposedly trying to do, the official u.s. policy toward ukraine? >> it reminded me of a time you will remember, during iran-contra when we had ollie north and we had this kind of shadow, anti-foreign policy. there were arms trading with with iran. not many people talk about it. but the question during those years was what did the president know and when did he know it? in this case, we know the president knew, and we have this secret, informal, irregular channel. what it added up to was taking a wrecking ball to american national security. taking established procedures that involve our security, our safety. getting on phone calls, talking on open lines. this is not how you secure a nation and its people.

>> what is the impact this is having on career diplomats? >> my phone rings often. i teach young people who are aspiring to be at the state department or overseas. the morale is dangerously low inside the building. at the embassies outside, people are nervous. we are going to learn about political retaliation, intimidation. the harassment that our former ambassador to ukraine faced, can you imagine 33 years as an ambassador and rumors start and your local host government says, hey, you need to watch your back. >> she was getting threats. >> she was physically concerned. and then you're parachuted out of your post. she honestly thought on the plane ride home there must be some physical security issue, which would justify removing an ambassador. she had been in that post for three years.

she had committed to stay until 2020. she had served five administrations in six countries, hardship posts. now you get brought back and told you've done a great job, but the president has lost confidence in you. and something bad is going to happen. and now she has to come before the country tomorrow, out of a job, scared to death, but upholding the reputation of all of these public servants who are shaking in their boots. >> it's an awful situation right now. tara, thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you. critical testimony from the first day of president trump's impeachment process, setting the stage for what we could see ahead. we're breaking down the key moments. our special, live coverage continues after this. how do you make red lobster's endless shrimp even hotter?

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we make it easy to enroll, too. so call unitedhealthcare or go online today. [sfx: mnemonic] it was the first day of open public live on television hearings in president trump's impeachment inquiry. two senior lifelong diplomats taking serious questions on whether the president of the united states abused his office and there were some very striking and surprising moments. john dean is here, white house counsel to president nixon. also with us, senior fellow at the r street homeland security. thank you for coming in.

john, what was the most striking moment for you? >> i think the bombshell, obviously, very early in the testimony that one of taylor's aides had heard the conversation with sondland, a volunteer witness, right back in the middle of this. i think he'll probably regret having come forward and not claim this absolute immunity because he's now a key witness. >> what counseling, paul? >> i think that was certainly a bombshell. i think the other really significant factor that showed up yesterday was the utter inability of the republicans to kind of find a consistent factual theme and to essentially be erecting fake, legal arguments as their defense. it shows the kind of weakness of where they are right now. >> where do you think this is all heading? >> i think it's inevitably going to head to the house floor for impeachment. the question there is whether any republicans break ranks,

particularly some of the people who are retiring, representative rooney, representative hurd. and then to the senate where who knows what's going to happen. >> this is republican congressman jim jordan. let me play it. >> the white house -- >> not second-hand. sondland talked to yarmak and they have a conversation, then he talks to morrison, morrison talks to taylor, where it happens in warsaw where vice president pence is meeting with zelensky and nothing happens there. >> he's saying none of these witnesses have first-hand information. >> thank you for that. paul and i were talking about that in the green room. it is the biggest, bogus claim that there is no proof to the president's involvement. there are exceptions to the hearsay rule. there are more situations that play out every day in courtrooms, criminal, civil. when my wife tells me that my

dogs are doing something or my dog is doing something, i don't have direct information but i rely on it. it's the way we operate as a society. this is bogus. >> i think to bring it to the legal framework, there's a clear exception to the hearsay rule that says the statements and furtherance of a plan, criminal plan, but here a plan to withhold evidence are admissible as evidence of the existence of the plan. i have clients who are in jail today based upon that very sort of testimony. to say that it is inadmissible is wrong. to say you don't want to believe it, that's what jim jordan is actually saying. >> devin nunes, he said this in his opening statement. i'll play the clip. >> after the spectacular implosion of the russia hoax on july 24th in which they spent years denouncing any republican who ever shook hands with a

russian, anyone familiar with the democrats' scorched earth war against president trump would not be surprised to see all the typical signs that this is a carefully orchestrated media smear campaign. >> so what do you think? you're shaking your head. >> not even close. not even close. what happened is trump forced this issue on us. as the russia investigation was wrapping up, this man is plotting his next activity that is illegitimate, to get a foreign country to do the dirty work of opposition research in exchange for foreign aid is outrageous. wolf, to me, this is so much more serious than nixon's activities. it's more serious -- certainly more serious than bill clinton's activities. it's in the area of iran-contra, which was settled behind closed doors. but this is something that

affects our natural security. >> more serious than nixon more r serious than bill clinton? >> certainly more serious than bill clinton. i worked on the clinton campaign, clinton impeachment and still feel as though that impeachment was well founded. whatever you think of that, it involved misconduct at the personal level not the misuse of president authority for personal gain. and i have to say as well that buried in yesterday's news was the roger stone trial and ri rick gates. anybody who actually goes and reads that testimony knows that mr. nunes' characterization of what happened between the trump campaign and russia was false. there was direct testimony there of what amounts to collusion. it may not be prosecutable criminally but there's no doubt at all that this is part and parcell of the president's playbook to seek foreign influence on american electoral campaigns. >> the tone of the hearing so far, what do you think?

>> what happens is they're faster with less information than historically. when i say faster, events are occurring. maybe it's social media. maybe it's more media today than there were with three or four networks in the past but less information that clinton, for example, turned over information. nixon actually turned over more information. andrew johnson turned over more information. in this white house, they just close the door. and but for the foreign service having a spine and coming forward, we wouldn't know what was going on. >> john dean, paul rosen, thank you for coming in. the trump administration is now courting new investors for its hotel here in washington, d.c. the hotel's biggest draw for foreign government-related business, that's a subject that

presents a serious conflict of interest for the president. an exclusive cnn report. that's coming up. farm-fresh milk for lactaid. y% it's real milk, just without the lactose, so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive. delicious. now, i've heard people say lactaid isn't real milk. ok, well, if it isn't real then, i guess those things over there can't actually be cows. must be some kind of really big dogs, then. sit! bad dog.

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call, click, or visit a store today. now to a cnn exclusive. the trump organization is considering selling its hotel here in washington, d.c. and has put together a brochure showcasing the grandiose architecture, himalayan salt spa

to court investors. one thing that the trump family insists it took no part in profiting off foreign governments. cnn reporter is joining us right now, doing serious reporting on this. what are you learning? >> reporter: that's right. gloria borgeer and i have seen this glossy brochure that's spent to prospective buyers and the trump organization is saying their biggest selling point issing they could not take advantage of, profiting off foreign business. let me read you a couple of lines to give you a sense. tremendous upside potential exists for a new owner to fully capitalize on government related business upon rebranding of the asset. the trump organization's commitment to turn away significant business during the president's time in office is a major sacrifice, especially in a market dominated by foreign embassies. the trump organization also says it turned away $9 million in business from foreign governments this year alone. but as we know this property has

become a lightning rod for critics of donald trump who say he may have illegally and improperly profited from the presidency and violated the emolluments clause of the constitution. part of their big strategy here, another strategy is selling one of the assets of the company the president loves to hate, amazon, they're saying that the new headquarters in northern virginia will be an asset to the hotel industry in washington, d.c. wolf? >> we're also learning, kara, that the president's lawyers will submit a request to the u.s. supreme court to try to block a subpoena for his tax records. what are you hearing about that? >> today is the deadline for the trump lawyers who-to-make their pitch to the supreme court asking them to take up their case where they want the supreme court to weigh in and say that the president has broad criminal immunity and cannot be investigated from a criminal grand jury as the manhattan

district's office is doing and they want the supreme court to say the president has complete immunity from that. it's up to the supreme court if they will take up that case. democrats lay the groundwork for impeachment as more witnesses get ready to take the stand. how damaging will it be for president trump as the white house ramps up its defense? stay with us. i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪

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and good afternoon. i'm anderson cooper. you are watching cnn's special coverage of the impeachment hearings into president trump. thanks for joining me. a milestone in the trump presidency. probably not one that the administration is celebrating as day one of the impeachment hearings is in the books. bill taylor and deputy state secretary george kent testifying about efforts by the white house to pressure ukraine to start investigations to dig up dirt on joe biden, nearly $400 in aid, mostly military aid, when would. acting white house chief of staff mick