witnesses testifying publicly in the impeachment investigation of president trump. next week, we'll be packed. eight witnesses including the key democrat of eu ambassador gordon sondland, the million dollar trump donor at the center of the investigation. thank you for joining us. stay with cnn for the latest developments. anderson's next. good evening tonight. new impeachment testimony that puts president trump directly hands on and moment to moment at the center of the scheme to squeeze ukraine into dirtying up an american political rival. our firsthand account provides further evidence that president trump didn't really care about corruption in general or ukraine's well being or u.s. policy in the region. what he cared about, according to the new testimony, was investigating the bidens. the testimony was from david holmes, a staffer and experienced diplomat in kiev. in his opening statement, he describes what gordon sondland made in front of him on the 26th

of july the day after the president called asking ukraine's president to investigate the conspiracy theory about the 2016 election. one letting russia off the hook and to investigate the bidens. sondland places the call in front of holmes and others on an apparently unsecure personal cell phone at an outdoor table in a kiev restaurant. the president, he says, was talking loudly enough to be overheard at times. and i'm quoting now from holmes' testimony. quote, i heard ambassador sondland greet the president explained he was calling for kiev. i heard president trump then clarify that the ambassador was in ukraine. ambassador sondland replied, yes, he was in ukraine and went on to state that president zelensky loves your ass. and then heard president trump ask, so, he's going to do the investigation? ambassador sondland replied he's going to do it. adding that president zelensky will do anything you ask him to. the call ends. holmes continues. i asked ambassador sondland if it was true that president did

not give an s about ukraine. ambassador sondland agreed the president did not give an s about ukraine. asked why. he said he only cares about big stuff. i noted there was big stuff going on in ukraine like a war with russia and ambassador sondland replied he meant big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing, end quote. holmes' testimony came immediately after former ukraine ambassador marie yovanovitch spent hours today testifying before the intelligence committee. >> if our chief representative is kneecaped, it limits our effectiveness to safeguard the vital national security interest of the united states. our ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray and shady interests, the world over have learned how little it takes to remove an american ambassador who does not give them what they want. >> she described efforts by rudy giuliani and others including

the president to smear her which the president did actually again today tweeting about her as she was testifying. she called it intimidating. democrats called it witness intimidation. and as that was unfolding, a federal jury convicted roger stone of seven counts including lying to the intelligence community and witness intimidation. gordon sondland goes before the committee next week. he's already testified once behind closed doors and then to correct his testimony after his memory returned to him after other witnesses contradicted evidence he had already given under oath. quite a day and it's been quite a week. cnn's phil mattingly starts us off tonight. explain what else holmes had to say in his testimony today. >> reporter: yeah, anderson. it's worth noting. david holmes, political counsel at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. a detailed statement that goes through a number of things. not just the explosive meeting on wednesday but also details about his concerns and the concerns of others in his office about the withholding of u.s.

security aid including the possibility that john bolton thought a meeting with trump and making president trump happy was the only way it could be released but also goes into detail about some of the issues they were facing that you heard a lot about today from marie yovanovitch and that is specifically related to rudy giuliani, the president's personal attorney. at one point in his testimony, he says, quote, someone wondered aloud why mr. giuliani was so active in the media with respect to ukraine. my recollection is that ambassador sondland stated, damn it, rudy, every time rudy gets involved, he goes and f's everything up. it's something you'll hear a lot of next week when ambassador gordon sondland testifies but it also underscores in this very detailed and i would argue very damning testimony in this opening statement from david holmes that the details here work against the president in many ways and certainly that's going to be the focal of the investigation and impeachment inquiry, anderson. >> the president was asked about this conversation earlier in the week. explain what he said.

>> reporter: yeah, he was asked during a press conference with the turkish president whether or not he knew anything about the call and well, take a listen. >> i know nothing about that. first time i've heard it. the one thing i've seen that sondland said was that he did speak to me for a brief moment and i said no quid pro quo under any circumstances and that's true. the other never heard this. in any event, it's more secondhand information but i never heard it. >> do you recall the conversation? >> no, not at all. not even a little bit. the only thing, and i guess sondland stayed with his testimony that there was no quid pro quo. pure and simple. >> reporter: anderson, the president referencing two different calls there. a call he made or had with ambassador gordon sondland where sondland testified there was no quid pro quo and the july 26 phone call which david holmes is testifying about as we speak right now just below me where he

talks about this conversation. here's where this runs into issues for the president. not only was david holmes in attendance when this call took place and he testifies in detail he's a very peculiar recollection of what the president had to say and testifies there was two other individuals besides the u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland at that table who also heard the call. here's where else this becomes problematic. gordon sondland testifies tomorrow alone in front of the house intelligence committee. members from both parties whether he was truthful or any other issues that were left out. he did not mention the call. you can believe he will be asked about the call and whether the president's record tracks with his. >> we'll see if his memory returned on this one. phil mattingly, thanks very much. i want to bring in the legal and political team. gloria, i mean, we thought that

yovanovitch was going to be the lead story and then david holmes testimony came out. what do you make of at the end of the day? >> i think it's very important. i think what david holmes' testimony does is confirm what the president did the day before on his phone conversation with the president of ukraine was a clear ask, saying you've got to do this for us after the, you know, i'd like you to do a favor though. follows up with the phone conversation and says, so he's going to do the investigation? the investigation is not just about corruption. it's very clear the investigation is about the bidens and when asked about it at lunch, sondland offers it very clearly. the president doesn't really care about ukraine. what he cares about is investigating the bidens. so it's more of the same. it corroborates what people knew but emphasizes it because the president himself acting it,

okay, what about the investigation? it's the very next day. >> we've been so focused on this phone call, do me a favor though, the phone call, the fact the next day, one of the people that the president's referring to was already in a meeting where they, according to this testimony, didn't let any staff in where sondland met with the ukrainian president and then wanted to report back right afterwards to the president. i mean, it's really remarkable how much of a line there is. >> and by the way, sondland is the ambassador to the european union so i'm not sure what he's doing to the restaurant in kiev. >> a million dollars. >> i know that, but, it's not like there's nothing going on in the european union he could focus on. >> that's key. we don't know the genesis of sondland being a part of this, but we'll learn it next week along with a lot of other very important questions about from his perspective, not just what went on with the call but what

was his actual role in trying to execute what appears to be the president's desire to -- >> i don't know if this is sondland's characterization of the president's opinion he only cares about the big stuff. the big stuff not being a war that ukraine is waging against russia but in fact, the big stuff is the bidens and, you know. >> the big stuff now is he's big stuff. he's really going to be an important witness. i really have, cannot believe he's not spending this weekend with his attorneys. he's got the potential of perjury. we don't know if that happened but it certainly a potential. high probability, anderson, he'll go in and plead the fifth and if they don't give him immunity, he won't testify. he might get immunity and that's his get out of jail free card. >> if you are looking to throw somebody under the bus, gordon

sondland would probably be a prime candidate to be next in line to be thrown under the bus. >> i think the president will wait patiently to see what he says and then decide. this has to be the worst day of the presidency so far for donald trump. >> you think so? >> the worst day. i thought after yovanovitch testified today, in a very compelling way, that instead itself was a dramatic account and gripping. a writer in "the new york times" said it reminded him of the mccarthy hearings, when he said, have you no decency, sir. that's what you thought about donald trump tweeting and attacking that woman while she was testifying and intimidating her and threatening her the way he has been but on top of this, the blockbuster news about holmes, it's not just that we learned from somebody with direct knowledge that the president was directing things but doing this the most graphic way.

the words here, the language. >> said he doesn't give a shit about ukraine and he loves his ass. >> forget about the roger stone conviction. >> we'll get to that. a lot to get to. you know mr. holmes. what is he like? who is he? >> i had the pleasure to work with david holmes over at 8 years, my foreign service career. we served together in india. we worked together in the state department. in my opinion, he embodies the highest values of public service. honor, integrity, and non-partisanship. absolutely. >> does what happened today, i mean, as somebody who serves in the service, you heard the ambassador yovanovitch said that the state department is follow h -- hollowed out from the inside. >> we've seen an exodus from the

most experienced and talented diplomats across the board. people like linda thomas greenfield, anne patterson, joe yuan. nearly every region of the world. and yovanovitch, still a foreign service officer and does exemplify that incredible courage and commitment and -- >> a point the republicans were making, she's still employed, the same amount of money. her career effectively over in terms of getting a foreign posting as an ambassador. >> i think she described the manner in which she was removed was something that was just a front to 33 years of incredibly dedicated selfless service. >> senator santorum, what do you make of the testimony and let's start with holmes. >> again, i feel like i'm in an echo chamber here. every time i come on here, it's the worst day the president had. the end of the presidency and then that passes and then another thing comes along.

this is the worst thing and this is the end of the presidency. the reality is, david, what holmes said is absolutely consistent with what every republican believes. number one, the president cares most about himself. every republican and american has accepted the fact that no matter what, the president cares about himself than everything else. no news flash here. when it comes to ukraine, the fact an issue more personal to him is the thing he cares about the most, that's a shock to anybody? raise your hand, seriously, raise your hand. shocking. >> the president really cared about corruption in ukraine? >> he does. that's sondland saying. and he's with a bunch of guys who he knows, probably not a big fan of the president. that's a whole different thing. the reality is that what he overheard was the president asking a question that he

admits. in fact, went in the camera and said, i care about that, yes, i want this to be investigated. here's the question. is what he's asking a criminal offense? is what he's asking illicit? nothing illegal about what he's asking. >> you were saying the president doesn't care about ukraine, he cares about himself. >> he cares about himself more than everything else. >> fine. so number one, he cares about himself. >> that's not a surprise. >> but if you're also claiming he cares about ukraine, why does he care about corruption in ukraine? clearly if he cares about himself, the only thing ukraine is on his radar for is bidens. >> and again, gloria and i had a conversation after our meeting yesterday, the other day. and gloria said to me, you give the president every benefit of the doubt. and my response is, i may, but you give him no benefit of the doubt. >> you said he cares about

himself more. >> he does. that's true. >> great quality in the president of the united states. >> it's not a great quality and i think republicans find that to be a very difficult -- >> i applaud you for -- >> here's the reality. to say the president doesn't care about the ukraine/russia war is ridiculous. that he doesn't care about providing aid. he's the only president recently that has provided. >> kerstin, do you think the president cares about the war because he's holding up aid? >> he cares about it, cares about it less than the priority that he gave. >> i'm not -- >> into investigating, nothing that happened basically with joe biden that he thinks that happened. well, it's a fact, actually. but i think the idea, it's interesting to hear you say that nobody should be shocked that the president only cares about himself above all else. i think we should remain shocked about that kind of behavior especially in light of what we've witnessed the last couple of days, people completely committed to serving their

country and watching what he has done to one of those women is really reprehensible and i just don't think it's okay for you to say that it's only okay for him to care about himself when his job is literally to stand up for the united states. that is his number one job and the number one concern. he cares about himself more than anything else. >> i didn't say that. i said he care most about himself. it doesn't mean he doesn't care about -- >> it's semantics. >> marie yovanovitch questioned by a bunch of folks who are serving the country in capitol hill but marie yovanovitch has gone to numerous hardship postings. she served in somalia, i mean, just a little bit of time there and that is a really tough posting and to have the president of the united states basically blame her for what has happened in somalia is the most asinine thing i've ever heard. i mean, somalia fell apart in

1992 after the fall of the regime and the famine. the idea the president said, look at what happened in somalia after tmarie was there. that's our president? >> he doesn't treat people like people. she's a person who dedicated her entire career to serving this country. >> i repeat one more time. i agree with 90% of what he does. 20% of what he says and this is one of the 80% that i don't agree with. >> that's essentially -- >> this is why he's not at 60% popularity. >> coming up next, how the president is reacting to testimony about the phone conversation that you heard him say he knows nothing about. more on marie yovanovitch's day before the house intelligence committee and one of the lawmakers who was there for it as we continue. man: sneezes

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president trump and the white house putting out a lot of fires tonight. some of their own making when it comes to the ukraine controversy. it began this morning when they released a rough transcript they called between the president and actually, it was more than a rough draft. it was a pretty detailed transcript. it was later released on the other call. they released a transcript of the first call between the president and his ukrainian counterpart, the president to the president that only undercut their defense of wanting to root out corruption because they claimed in the original readout. the president and the president of ukraine talked about fighting corruption. that was actually not in the calls. the white house basically made something up in the statement they had originally made. later, president trump attacked the witness in today's public hearing on twitter and even some republicans criticized those remarks, some. now it appears the man he made ambassador to the eu inadd

verdantly given democrats what he believes is firsthand evidence some said until now did not exist. jim acosta joining us from the white house. what does the white house say about holmes' testimony? >> reporter: they're running out of fire extinguishers at the white house, no question about it. i'll tell you, a white house official responded to this damaging testimony that came out this evening from that aide who said he overheard the president talking to someone about these investigations and i won't go over it because you've gone over what was said during the call but according to this white house official, you know, this person was essentially pushing back on the importance of all of this saying what does this witness do besides essentially confirm what the president was talking about in his phone conversation with the president of ukraine and so, you know, the white house is asking where is the quid pro quo on all of this. that's their perspective. i'll tell you, anderson, there is a lot of consternation inside the white house this evening about what gordon sondland, the eu ambassador did apparently holding up this phone so other

aides could hear at this lunch when the president was calling in asking about these investigations according to a source familiar with conversations inside the white house and this is a direct quote, the president speaks loudly, sondland should know that. and so incredibly, there is some blame going around for gordon sondland when it was the president who was speaking loudly enough all of these people in the restaurant could hear what he was saying. >> you could hear the bus backing up getting ready to run over gordon sondland. the president who has often said he has the best memory of anyone, he says he has no recollection of this call. this call was the day after he talked to and asked for the favor from the president of ukraine. he said he has no recollection, i'm not sure how many times he gets a call in which he's told a foreign president loves his ass but seems to have forgotten this part of the call. is the white house having any explanation of that? >> reporter: you know, at this

point, they're sticking to what the president said a couple of days ago that he doesn't recall having this conversation. of course, that is the danger when the president says i don't recall. i don't know. we listed a slew of situations where he's said this sort of thing and contradicted by the facts later on. we've caught them red handed from time to time. this is the danger the white house is getting into, anderson, as we start to get into the next week of public hearings, you'll have people testifying presumably gordon sondland being one of them. alexander vinman being another to firsthand knowledge of this dirt for dollar scheme apparently going on with the administration that the president was apparently leading, if you can believe what this aide said this evening about what he overheard in the phone call with the ukraine ambassador. >> now back with the political and legal team. ellie, let me ask you about on the legal front what stands out to you. >> i see a couple of potential crimes here. assuming the truth of the

investigation, it's entirely consistent with the july 25th transcript. i would argue in damaging way, not a let's forgive it way but two specific federal crimes here. first of all, bribery. if a public official seeks a personal benefit in exchange for an official act, that is bribery. i think that's exactly what we have here and second of all, forget about any exchange. it's a federal crime to slils s /solicit aid. so i see -- >> said bs on information being a political value. >> the supreme court did not say, no, no, no. >> william barr said bs not the court. >> the reality is that's never going to hold water. and to suggest that asking for an investigation of a man getting $50,000 who had no qualifications for sitting on a board of an energy company created because of fraud in the first place and saying whether that should be investigated, that has personal -- the

president is getting nothing personal. it's political. and you're saying. ladies and gentlemen, there is a difference between getting personally rewarded financially and having political because if we're saying that anybody who seeks to do something for political gain from a foreign exchange is committing bribery, then joe biden should go because you know what? there's just as much political gain that he now takes credit for and the obama administration for getting all of these things have political gain. you have to look at whether there was personal gain. and just because there was direct political gain for the president is irrelevant. if donald trump asked ukraine to give him a used van that he could use with his campaign, would that be a thing of value for his campaign? of course it would. >> what's more valuable? that or opposition research on joe biden? >> he didn't ask for opposition

research. >> he asked for something better. a criminal investigation. >> an investigation of corruption in ukraine. that is, is that inconsistent? inconsistent? does it, okay. only if someone is interested for one thing, then all of a sudden changes things? >> tells you what the priority is. >> no it doesn't. >> if he was interested in corruption, he wouldn't get rid of the ambassador. if you're going to make the argument he cares about corruption, got rid of the ambassador known for fighting corruption. there was the testimony today, also, was saying basically that it became very clear to david holmes that they were making all this progress on anti-corruption and yet they couldn't get the meeting with the white house. it became very clear. the only thing that was going to get the meeting was the dirt on biden. >> if this is a legitimate investigation into corruption in ukraine of which it means the bidens, that's something that you would want the u.s. embassy to be pushing as well. the president, you know, has say

over what the u.s. embassy in ukraine does. why is he having rudy giuliani of all people with shady business dealings going in ukraine and all throughout eastern europe? sulking about with lev and igor looking for -- >> the answer to that i think is clear and that is, he has some suspicion about the, quote, deep state within the state department. you can roll your eyes. >> i'm not rolling my eyes. i say -- >> it's legitimate. >> he's concerned about the deep state and yet levin, igor and giuliani and all of these corrupt ukrainian officials who are now in the camp with giuliani and levin igor, those, he has no concerns about their, but yovanovitch is the one who's suspect? >> you could say rudy giuliani is corrupt. i don't think he's corrupt. >> i don't think he's corrupt. he's out there -- >> basically put him in with the den of thieves. >> he's working with them.

he's choosing to work with a den of thieves. >> we don't know that. >> we do know that. he's trying to get a visa for them. he's trying to get them in the united states. he's trying to get them on "hannity." you wouldn't associate with these people. >> i'm not the standard. >> i wish you were. >> i appreciate that but i'm not the standard. >> there's another important thing i think sondland said to the president that's very damaging because he's trying to suck up to the president here, let's be obvious. they all love you and blah blah blah. he said about zelensky, he will do anything you ask him to. he will do anything. what does that mean? he will do anything, why, because he loves you so much? no. not because he loves you so much but because he needs what you are dangling in front of him so much. which is already congressionally approved military aid which he should already have. that's why he would do anything. >> we've got to get a break. go deeper into everything we heard including the former

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before david holmes gave his closed door testimony which ties president trump directly to the alleged scheme to extort political favors from ukraine, namely ukrainian action that could help him win a second term, the holes were still ringing from what marie yovanovitch told lawmakers in public. this 33 year veteran from the foreign service detailed efforts by the president and others to hollow out the state department in her opinion and not just remove her from her post which any president is entitled to do but smear and intimidate her on top of that. as she was testifying as shyou'

see in jessica schneider's report. here it is. >> reporter: the president facing accusations he crossed the line sending a tweet alleges mounts to witness intimidation against career diplomat marie yovanovitch as she testified on capitol hill. >> marie yovanovitch, as we sit here and testifying the president attacking you on twitter. >> i can't speak to what the president is trying to do but i think the effect is to be intimidating. >> reporter: despite the white house saying the president would not watch the proceedings beyond congressman nunez's opening statement, sent this tweet an hour into the hearing. everywhere marie yovanovitch turned bad. she started off in somalia, how did that go? it is a u.s. president's absolute right to appoint ambassadors. chairman shiff read the tweet to yovanovitch and warned the rant could prompt repercussions

including a new article of impeachment. >> some of us here take witness intimidation very, very seriously. >> reporter: yovanovitch recounted how she felt threatened by the president and his associates before. >> the person who saw me reading the transcript said the color drained from my face. i think i had a physical reaction. >> reporter: especially after the release of the july 25th phone call transcript between president trump and ukrainian president zelensky. >> president trump says the former ambassador from the united states, the woman was bad news. and the people she was dealing with in the ukraine were bad news. so i just want to let you know. what was your reaction when you heard the president of the united states refer to you as bad news? >> i couldn't believe it. again, shocked, appalled, devastated that the president of the united states would talk about any ambassador like that

to a foreign head of state and it was me. i mean, i couldn't believe it. president trump told president zelensky and you read that you were going to go through some things? >> i didn't know what to think but i was very concerned. >> what were you concerned about? >> she's going to go through some things. it didn't sound good. it sounded like a threat. >> did you feel threatened? >> i did. >> reporter: yovanovitch was ousted from her post as ambassador to ukraine in may after a campaign to remove her. the chief said it was led by rudy giuliani and his circulation of rumors that she was undermining the president. >> i do not understand mr. giuliani's motives for attacking me nor can i offer an opinion on whether he believed the allegations he spread about me. >> reporter: and she was asked why she didn't get the report

from her boss secretary of state mike pompeo. >> in the face of this smear campaign, did they try to get a report from you from secretary pompeo? >> yes. >> were they successful? >> no. >> did you come to learn that they couldn't issue such a statement because they feared it would be undercut by the president? >> yes. >> reporter: yovanovitch then went point by point to rebut the allegations against her. >> i want to reiterate first that the allegation that i disseminated a do not prosecute list was a fabrication. i did not tell mr. lusenko who they should or should not prosecute. what i can say is that mr. giuliani should have known the claims were suspect, coming as they reportedly did from individuals with questionable motives and with reason to believe that their political and financial ambitions would be stymied by our anti-corruption policy in ukraine. >> reporter: the former

ambassador warning it sends the wrong message to countries like russia. >> our ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray and shady interests, the world over have learned how little it takes to remove an american ambassador who does not give them what they want. >> reporter: and as yovanovitch's approximately six hours of testimony ended, people in the hearing room applauded the former ambassador who has spent 33 years in the foreign service. jessica schneider, cnn, washington. >> and back with us, our political and legal team. kerstin, it was interesting to hear the ambassador today essentially say this sends a message to sort of shady characters in other countries that you can undermine and bring down a u.s. ambassador if you know the right people and you -- >> or make up lies about them. i think that was one of the most important things that she said. there's the personal story of what happened to her personally, which i think is pretty horrible. and then there's the foreign

policy implications to it, which is that other governments can watch this and they can say, oh, we have an ambassador that's giving us a hard time, an ambassador who's trying to get us to stop being corrupt, for example, and we can launch a smear campaign and get them removed and that donald trump would be completely open to that. >> the conspiracy theory at the heart of it. >> exactly. >> david, do you worry about, you know, the foreign service, the state department is an important thing. you talk to military people. they say, look, the state department is essential because without them, it ends up, the military are the ones. >> absolutely. general mattis said if you don't send diplomats, you'll have to send guns. that's what the military strongly believes. i think in the near term, it may not do as much damage because it's a particular case, but i do think the hollowing out, it's not just people leaving with retirement but people that you

went to college with, say in new haven, you saw fine educated people who wanted to serve their country and went into the foreign service. it was magnetic and earlier time in our history. right now in the students i see, i'm not doing that. why would i put myself in that position where you're so vulnerable and you may be held up to cameras like this and have people like rick going after me. why would i do that? >> rick santorum in the past and i'll do it again tonight, going after the state department on many occasions because i've had many republicans that had problems with the state department bureaucracy for decades. president bush had problems with the state department. the reality is, bureaucracy over there that has a very different point of view than most conservative positions on national security. you did not hear me defend nor will i defend what the president did here today. >> what about her? >> all i know is what i read in

the last 24 hours. i don't know. >> nobody today -- >> i can tell you, i've run into many problems over that department. >> nobody today said the president was right to fire her. i didn't hear it. did you hear it? from any republican today? particularly -- >> he has the right to. >> they said he has the right but they didn't say he was right to do it. >> and the key about deep state and the problems with the state department, i mean, absolutely. that's not new and that isn't just republicans. it's true of both parties and it's not just the state department, it's political people trying to deal with an entrenched government. having said that, it is far different from what was on display today which is a president of the united states peddling conspiracy theories that even his own top advisers have told him in private, don't do that, it is incorrect to say, for example, that the dnc server was in ukraine. it's just not right and you're

going to be proven wrong and going to look bad. he can't help it, did it anyway. that's part of what he was asking for. asking for an investigation on things that are in the dark web that are totally debunked. how is that appropriate for a president? >> the president of the united states is a conspiracy theorist and it was bossert who said it on air, homeland security, right, they told him. but rudy giuliani is whispering in his ear going -- >> but other people have told him it's not. so, look. >> what kind of people? rudy giuliani would be one of them. >> exactly. the idea that rudy giuliani is this huge conspiracy theorist well known for unbalanced activity, i don't subscribe to that and i don't think most americans do. >> take a quick break. the member of the house intelligence committee will say what stood out to him during today's testimony. (burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything.

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there's going to be more testimony in the house impeachment inquiry tomorrow with testifying from the office manager of budget. more expected later next week. i want to talk about what we learned, whatever you can say about the closed door hearing we reported about at the top of the broadcast. sean patrick maloney. thank you for being with us. there's probably a lot you can't

say so i'll leave you to that but david holmes from the reporting said he heard firsthand president trump talking to ambassador sondland whether the ukrainian president was going to be doing the investigation. i'm wondering overall how significant holmes' testimony was. >> it's one more corroboration to the account of other witnesses who suggested that sondland was at the heart of this but of course, it's a major development. i mean. >> it took place the day after the favor was asked by the president to the ukrainian president. >> that's exactly right and of course, the color around that, i've seen what's being reported about it. i know the testimony still is going on so i'm constrained with what i can say but i can tell you, i view this as a major development. this is another very credible witness, a member of the foreign service who heard the president's voice with his own ears. it was unmistakably clear what the president was focused on and

that's just from ambassador taylor's account without going into what the president is going on right now but what i can tell you is that there is increasingly little doubt about what the president was up to here and of course, one more thing ambassador sondland neglected to recall in his multiple attempts to get his story right. so we are very interested in getting the full story out of ambassador sondland. >> right. i mean, it is remarkable that the ambassador testified under oath, a lot of things he said he didn't remember, didn't recall, and then when other people come forward and testify, his memory is restored and he amends his testimony and yet, he still didn't mention this call. i'm not sure how many calls he had in his life but i'm sure these are notable events. will homes be called to testify? will that be necessary? >> i'm not sure if that decision

has been made yet. look, we want the truth and what is terrific about people like the extraordinary witness you saw today, ambassador yovanovitch and ambassador taylor, soon lieutenant vindman, is that these are career people who at risk to their own professional careers are stepping forward to do the right thing. and that is going to aid us in surrounding people like ambassador sondland with no opportunity but the right one, which is to tell the truth. and that's, by the way, why it was so important to do some of these depositions behind closed doors so witnesses can't try to, you know, construct their testimony around what other people said. that's a well-warned investigative tactic. >> he said i recall no discussion with any state department or white house official about former joe biden or his son nor did i make any

effort to participate into the investigation of the bidens. is he a credibility of a witness? >> there are going to be questions about the credibility of a witness who has trouble remembering key facts in an investigation. when you add up all of the other testimony and corroborating evidence, you're saying this is someone who was trying to minimize at first who is having the truth now dragged out of him. we just want the truth. the chips can fall where they may. by the way, the state department is sitting on a mountain of evidence. they have contemporaneous notes of all of these witnesses who said they take notes, they've got emails, text messages, phone messages, if they want objective evidence for who did what and what happened, they should release those facts. >> and they're not doing that? >> of course they're not doing that and they're resisting a

subpoena illegally and if those documents helped the president, we would have heard about it. >> the idea that the president was trying to intimidate ambassador yovanovitch, jim yordyor jordan said it wasn't intimidation that she wouldn't have known about it because she was testifying. does that make any sense to you? >> it's easy to be flip about that. i think that's a really inappropriate remark for a member of congress to make. i mean, i think these facts can get so absurd you can lose some of your perspective on it. this is a person whose career has been ended by the ma machinations of people like rudy giuliani. she's up here testifying truthfully and she's intimidated by a realtime tweet of the president of the united states. it's outright witness intimidation. we should get clear on what's

going on. >> it also seems to federal budget if she wouldn't have heard about it then, it's also intimidating or sending a message to any other future witness who is going to be coming forth. >> right. of course this is part of a pattern where the whistle-blower is threatened by the president, compared to spies and traitors. it's suggested that the penalty of death, the way we used to in the old days is what he says. this president has a clear pattern of trying to spin and intimidate and get in the way of the facts coming out. so if he's not guilty, he should stop acting like it. >> congressman sean patrick maloney, thank you very. we're going to take a quick break. we'll have more of president trump's reaction to the guilty reaction of roger stone, one of his long-time confidantes. ♪

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as the impeachment hearings were under way and president trump was tweeting about a witness, roger stone was found guilty of witness tampering,

lying to congress in a federal courtroom in washington. he was the sixth to have pleaded guilty of a crime. it stemmed from testimony to the house intelligence committee investigating interference in the 2016 election. stone was arrested by fbi agents. stone was convicted of witness tampering, obstruction of a congressional community proceeding. president trump said now they convict roger stone of lying and want to jail him for many years to come. well, what about hillary clinton, comey, page, mccabe, brennan, clapper, shifty schiff

and the others. didn't they lie? i'll be back at 1 11 p.m. i'll hand it over to chris cuomo for "prime time." >> have a great weekend, well deserved. the first weekend of public impeachment brings major new evidence just today. tonight we have our best investigative and legal minds to test all the different angles that arose including a cnn exclusive that will be first here on primetime, new reporting on rudy giuliani's associates in a never-before-known connection to president trump, putting them at the heart of this ukraine scheme. why did an indicted man with a james bond-style mission for our president? what do you say? let's get after it.