happy thanksgiving. thanks for joining us this hour. stay tuned. "inside politics" with john king starts right now. ♪ ♪ thank you. welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. new evidence backs the democrats' impeachment case. the president released aid to ukraine only after being told a whistleblower had filed a complaint. plus, new details of turmoil because some administration staffers warned withholding that money was ill heel. pl resilience is a word that fits joe biden and elizabeth warren is struggling as some democratic voters take a more moderate view of the contenders and of the issues. two candidates with recent hospital visits on their calendars want you to know all is well. >> i didn't feel great, i wouldn't be ranting and raving

to 22,000 people with lots of people outside, i can tell you. >> i'm feeling strong, energetic and more ready than ever to fight for the american people. >> so what you're saying is -- ♪ i do amy hair, check my nails♪ ♪ hair toss, check my nails ♪ bernie how you feeling ♪ feeling good as hell we begin the hour with important new details in the ukraine and impeachment timel e timelin timelines. some of what we now know, the "new york times" reporting the president was briefed on the details of the whistleblower complaint and the likelihood congress would get it in late august, weeks before he released that hold on ukrainian military aid and weeks before he told his

ambassador to the european union there was no quid pro quo. plus new testimony transcripts detail a big internal debate as the president's order to hold up the ukraine aid was documented, including concerns inside the office of management and budget that that hold was illegal. the details add to the pressure on the president as the impeachment hearings move to a new venue, the house judiciary committee next week. >> crooked politicians not giving us due process, not giving us lawyers, not giving us the right to speak. >> the facts are otherwise. republicans have had equal time so far every step of the way. starting next week, the president's lawyers are welcome to participate in the hearings as well. let's get straight to the white house correspondent kaitlan collins in florida where the president is. that's the big question for the president. will he send his lawyers to participate in next week's hearings? >> reporter: right. their complaint in these other hearings you've seen the past

few weeks is they couldn't have an attorney in the room. that was a big point of frustration for the president, something he's made clear publicly. now that they've been invited to have an attorney in the room as they move onto these hearings in front of the judiciary committee, right now we're told that the thinking inside the white house is they are likely not going to send an attorney right now, though the two people we spoke with about this cautioned that this is still fluid. they have not made any kind of final decision yet. they have until sunday to answer whether or not they are going to send someone to be in the room representing the white house in a legal sense. the deliberations happening inside the white house right now are not only about whether or not they're going to send an attorney, but also what witnesses they're going to suggest if they do, since that is also something they have been afforded as part of this. now, of course the democrats have said they're reserving the right to change that if the white house continues to block people like secretary of state

mike pompeo, chief of staff mick mulvaney, all these others from coming to testify. they are still mapping out what it is they're going to be doing over the next few weeks, what their strategy is going to be and whether or not there's an attorney in there comes down to a big part of this. yes, they want someone in the room but their question is going to be is it worth it for us to send an attorney knoto be in th. that's a decision they're still trying to make. >> we'll keep an eye on what the president ultimately decides. phil mattingly, paul kaine with the "washington post." i want to show a timeline as we get new reporting and new transcripts. number one, the president pushed aside his ambassador in ukraine when he didn't like the resistance to his policy.

a career official sandy mark sandy raises concerns with a senior omb official in the middle of july about is this legal, can we do this. july 30th, 12 days after sandy raised some concerns, a political aide michael duffy takes over the process. duffy signs documents holding up the aid. the white house will say nothing wrong here, we just decided to have michael duffy take over. but if you track what happened with ambassador yovanovitch and the career people being shoved aside in the earlier dispute, here's another case where somebody raises his hand, says i think this is wrong and a political person comes in and does what the president wants. >> and this new revelation by the "new york times" that the president was actually aware of the whistleblower complaint, which begs the question would they have released the aid had the president not known? was this something that made them concerned and prompted them to release the aid? this is very important to

answer. >> it's the democrats' argument that they got caught. the president has a chance to counter that. he won't let any of these people testify, so if he has fact witnesses who could say that's not how it played out, they haven't testified, which suggests they can't say that. >> the idea that a transcript from a career omb official is something that's really fascinating to everybody is probably a bit of a twist and turn in normal washington. why it was so important is we haven't gotten any insight or window into what was happening at omb because of the top officials refusing to come in and testify. what sandy laid out is the fact of, one, the internal tumult inside the agency, not just the potential legality of it but why they weren't filled in on anything. the rationale being the president was concerned that other european countries were

not contributing. that's the reason he was doing this. mark sandy, who was the top career official on this specific issue, says throughout the course of june, all of july and all of august he asked repeatedly for the rationale and was never given that rationale. when that rationale came, it came in the form of an e-mail in early september. oh by the way, we're doing this because we're concerned about other countries. it feels like this was kind of an after the fact rationale that was put together by the administration. now you can see on the ground at these agencies there's a lot of real concerns raised. >> the career people are questioning it. again, that is a pattern throughout here. the experts questioning the legality and from the ukraine perspective the ambassador questioning the ethics of it. on that day i emphasized that that would raise a number of questions we'd need to address. i advised we would want to

consult with our office of general counsel on these questions first. there's legislation that says a president can't just willy nilly decide i don't care what congress did, i'm not sending the money. here's mark sandy saying i want to go see the lawyers. >> you mapped it out. they keep going to the lawyers. to phil's point, they keep trying to come up with a rationale and a reason. ultimately the best republican talking point has always been the aid got released. there was no extortion, there was no bribery, there was no quo of quid and pro because the aid got released. why did the aid get released? if this cuts under that argument that they didn't even have a real rationale for this other than they just wanted some investigations and that ultimately the aid got released because they got caught, then republicans are in a box and they really don't have any other

foundation for their excuses as to what happened. >> the more we learn facts, the more they undercut and sometimes just obliterate things the president has said or arguments his team has made for him. will he send a professional legal team in next week or will he just keep saying things like this? >> i have never had a direct link between investigations and security assistance. okay. what that means, it means we did zero. we did nothing wrong. you see what's happening in the polls? everybody said that's really bullshit. >> number one, the facts are contrary to what the president said at the beginning, the testimony is anyway. he has a chance to rebut it if he wants to send people up but he's refused. the polls are divided but half the country thinks the president should be impeached and removed.

>> the transcript itself also refute what s what trump said l night at that rally. it's not just one person, one official who's come forward to say, look, i threw up warning signs, there appears to be a quid pro quo. it's multiple career officials that have laid this out. what we found from the sandy testimony was that two even went so far as to resign because they had issues with the holdup of the ukraine aid. >> multiple branches of government too. multiple officials from multiple departments. there were red flags coming from d.o.d. frrks the state departme department, from nsc and omb. yet the white house still did not take action and placed a political appointee in the place of a normally career official for an oversight matter like the aid issue. >> it's important to note a lot of the objections were raised by career people. most of those career people were kept in their job or put in

their jobs by the trump administration. they weren't just holding around for the last 20 years popping up to object to this president. before we go the break, a bit of a flashback to 1998. it was on this day 21 years ago that president clinton released his responses to 81 questions posed by the house intelligence committee. >> these answers now will be used by the house judiciary committee as it draws up proposed articles of impeachment against the president. that a process now entering a critical two-week period, by mid december the committee to decide whether to vote articles of impeachment. applebee's new sizzlin' entrées.

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a big decision just minutes ago from a d.c. judge, a pause on a ruling forces the former white house counsel don mcgahn to testify before congress. whether to wait on mcgahn's testimony as that case makes its way through the courts is one of many big questions as this impeachment process moves to the next stage. will shifting committees and chairmen have any impact on the democrats' case. our latest poll show add divided country, 50% support eed impeaching and removing.

democrats have the edge there but even they acknowledge that public support at the moment likely not strong enough to sway republican senators to break from their president. this is congressman steven lynch this morning on cnn. >> ironically and paradoxically this is the only type of trial situation where we actually ask the public to weigh in to persuade the jurists, the senators. for us and the house and i think for most democrats, we really don't have a choice. if this isn't impeachable conduct, then nothing is. >> let's start with that. the democrats think the evidence, we have to do this, makes the point, yes, we probably need to boost the

polling numbers, which are strong but not great for the democrats if you're going to sway the senate. as they move from intelligence to judiciary, most democrats are pretty happy with the performance of adam schiff, with how they made the case in that committee. are there jitters among the democrats as they move to a new committee, a new chairman, a new chapter? >> i think there are. they still haven't decided they want to keep the articles focused on just the ukraine investigation or if they want to include other trump misdeeds. sources have told politico there are three big ones, which is abuse of power, obstruction of congress and obstruction of justice. if they do include the obstruction of justice, it makes it easier to make that case if you include parts of the mueller investigation. >> getting a pause on don mcgahn works i assume in the favor of folks who say keep it focused. the house democratic lawyers had

gone to court saying a stay pending appeal, if granted, the committee would most likely lose the opportunity to consider evidence before impeachment. >> i think from the leadership to the majority of the caucus would like to keep it tightly focused. particularly the group of people who were reluctant endorsers of impeachment to begin with, the same people getting doused with millions of dollars in ads from republican outside groups right now. they would like to keep it moving. there's also another thing here. that was there's a reason adam schiff was chosen to lead the investigation piece of this and not jerry nadler. that was a concern that the committee and what they had done throughout mueller -- and this isn't necessarily a nadler specific thing but the committee

had gone off the rails at certain points. i think there's concern right now amongst rank and file democrats that this stays on track and keeping the debate narrow inside the caucus is helpful to this process. >> those swing state democrats who are the most jittery about moving forward with impeachment on the mueller russia stuff, when it came to ukraine and they made the pivot and said hlet's go, they wanted to focus on ukraine and they wanted it in schiff's intel committee. the number of people who referenced steve cohen and the bucket of fried chicken was astonishing. he showed up to a judiciary committee with a bucket of fried chicken because it was going to be such a show to watch. they are concerned. they need it to be a serious, sober, somber, prayerful moment. they don't want it to turn into a circus. >> it's not helpful in either party when people from safe

seats show up thinking they can turn it into a circus. madelyn dean today. she says the polling is actually pretty good. >> 50% of people believe the president has done culpable things that warrant his removal? to me, that's a very strong poll. we haven't seen the entire report. we haven't drafted articles of impeachment. we have a long way to go. >> this is a debate in town right now, in the sense that it is half the country, democrats do have an advantage. it's clearly safe for most house democrats if 50% of the country thinks that. that means in a safe democratic district the number is probably considerably higher than that. the question is you're not going to persuade republican senators if this is a 50-50. >> they realize that. adam schiff i think realizes it

more than most. he was here on sunday and not outwardly saying he intends to impeach the president. he was very cautious to say i want to talk to my constituents and see how they're feeling. they realize there is some reluctance from democrats, but republicans are probably going to be pushing back as well. his rhetoric shows it ev. >> we assume the report from schiff and the intelligence committee comes early next week. then you have t up next, good signs for joe biden and warning signs for elizabeth warren. just ok? guess who just got reinstated! well, not officially. nervous? yeah. yeah me too.

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new cnn polling released today shows a resilient joe biden atop the democratic pack nationally and suggests as the first votes get closer, the party is in a more moderate mood. first the top choice of democrats. bide at 28%, bernie sanders 17%, elizabeth warren 14%. pretty healthy lead for joe biden nationally. what if some of the lower

candidates drop out, what is the impact on the race? biden holds up if you just take the top four are still in the race. joe biden still with a double digit lead over senator sanders, senator warren and mayor buttigieg. nationally joe biden in good shape. one reason for that, the party is looking more closely at the moderates, moving maybe more toward the center. if you add up support for biden and buttigieg, that's 39% of democrats. 31% for the two progressive candidates there. here's the question, which policy approach do you prefer? these are likely democratic voters. big change feec, 36% of democray that's where they are. look at this. 56% of democrats say good chance of becoming law even if smaller change. that's joe biden's argument or mayor buttigieg's argument on

obamacare. here's some hope for the other candidates. only 42% of democrats nationally say they've made up their mind. 47% say they might change their mind and 11% have no first choice. >> there's a comfort with people like joe biden thinking that, hey, here's a guy that was vice president. i really do believe their support is soft. most voters have not made up their mind. let's see in about 60 days when the actual voting starts. it always has shifted dramatically who's in the lead who's not. we believe we have what it takes on the ground to win. >> there often are late shifts. maybe iowa votes for somebody and then the race gets all jumbled up. if you look at this, the predicate of the bloomberg campaign is that joe biden is going to collapse. if you look at these national

numbers, there's a lot of chatter in washington and among democratic strategists does joe biden have what it takes. the numbers keep saying that voters around the country, they're fine. >> that has been the prevailing theme which is that a lot of democrats within the party feel as if they're holding their breath waiting for him to collapse and it hasn't materialized in any of the polling. when you're on the ground, there are a lot of local people whether it's georgia to nevada to iowa who say they think his support is soft. if there's a 2008 situation where someone else wins iowa or new hampshire, does that put a big enough dent in his support that then you see the following states that come after that flip. >> it's a very important point. national polls are helpful but not always instructive. we go state by state. yes, an upset in iowa could change a lot of things. then you get the more crowded contest that bloomberg is waiting for.

first we track out joe biden, where he has been all the way back to april. there's joe biden. then you bring elizabeth warren into that. joe biden has had a few ups and downs. warren came up. now she's sort of plateaued. senator sanders has been essentially a straight line. he has a solid core of voters who aren't going anywhere. then you bring in the surprise candidate of these four, mayor buttigieg. he's way down at the bottom below 10%. this is our first poll that gets him up into double digits. the biden line is up and down but resilient. his argument constantly is i'm winning. >> he's winning nationally. what he needs is for iowa and new hampshire to be a split decision. the worst outcome for biden is somebody else wins both iowa and

new hampshire. that's when real momentum kicks in. john kerry did that in 2004 and the race was pretty much over. if there's a split decision, if it's buttigieg in iowa and warren or sanders in new hampshire, then the sort of fight between south carolina and nevada and super tuesday becomes a much more legit thing for biden and a much stronger position possibly for bloomberg. but if somebody else wins both iowa and new hampshire and biden is in deep third, fourth place, he's in a much worse position. >> we're 9 1/2 weeks until the first votes. the candidates have to make very important decisions where they schedule themselves, where they spend their money. this story in politico, elizabeth warren loses her mojo in iowa. you have to wonder whether she peaked too soon. amy klobuchar has given it some thought.

our momentum says we're doing pretty damn well in iowa. she'll at least be in the top five. this is from her iowa campaign chair. it is interesting to have these candidates now. it is hard. it drains your life. it stresses your family. it stresses you personally. they're at a phase now where this is about to matter. >> i think one thing that everybody should pay attention to in iowa is operationally where everybody stands. elizabeth warren's team on the ground is as good as it gets. pete buttigieg carpet bombed the state with ads. he had the money to do that. other people may be in position to do that over the course of the next 9 weeks as well. we'll see how these four fight it out. >> to that point, we want to show you national numbers versus iowa numbers. so far this has been a national

race. the candidates who are struggling are struggling nationally and also struggling in iowa. amy klobuchar would be the exception. he will iowa sort of shatter this race or will it continue to be a national dynamic? >> iowa has always been sort of the indicator. that's why there's so much attention on it. whether or not it's the game changer, obviously that remains to be seen. so whether or not pete buttigieg will carry on and do as well as he will in iowa, it's unlikely given how the polls are looking, but definitely some moment tim co comes out of the iowa race. >> former president jimmy carter will be spending thanksgiving day at home in plains, georgia. that good news, the former president released from a hospital in atlanta today after recovering from a procedure to relief pressure on his brain related to some recent falls.

he's grateful for all the well wishes and he wishes everyone a happy thanksgiving. look, this isn't my first rodeo...

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the president's twitter feed gets most of the attention when it comes to his impeachment defense. but there's dramatic new evidence of how his reelection campaign is juggling its spending priorities to help in the impeachment fight. the trump campaign ran more than 6,000 facebook ads about impeachment during that first week of public hearings. the estimated price tag for that surge, between 300,000 and $1 million. it's the latest example of how team trump smartly uses its digital strategy for messaging and election organizing. in the last 11 months you see the president's spending. this is his reelection campaign. the democratic candidate tom steyer nearly 14 million. you come and look at this, just some peaks and valleys in the president's spending. you see a spike early in the

year. you see relatively modest spending, then it goes up again. the week of october 5th, $2.8 million just that week. the impeachment inquiry was announced here in late september. another way to look at it, prior to learning of the whistleblower report, so before the middle of november, of all the trump facebook ads only just shy of $21,000 mentioned impeachment. that's how much they spent on ads that mentioned impeachment prewhistleblower. watch this. post whistleblower, nearly $2 million. so the campaign realizing we have a problem. let's use our resources in the digital space to try to reshape the debate with big ads like this. >> my conversation with the president, the new president of ukraine was perfect. there was no quid pro quo. there was nothing. >> i'm concerned that if we don't impeach this president, he will get reelected. >> we're going to impeach the

[ bleep ]. ♪ >> whatever you think at home about the president, whether you're for him or against him or not sure, as you study campaigns, they know what they're doing. they have a very smart digital strategy. the way they spike it to deal with issues, when you see that $20,000 pre whistleblower, $2 million post whistleblower. they see a fire and they go after it. >> we saw it in 2016. i think most people weren't totally aware of what was happening in 2016 until after the fact when you got a full sense on not just how good they were operating on facebook and also they were doing things that nobody had really thought of doing in terms of creative, in terms of how many thing thas werethrowing out.

if something works and something raises a ton of money, it gets you message out to the people you need to activate. >> in some ways they had no choice. this is the new frontier in global life. traditionally campaigns spent on tv ads. they didn't have the money. they sort of pioneered how to do this. they're smart. they make this personal. the president wants to keep republicans in his camp on impeachment republican lawmakers but also republican voters. a facebook ad from the trump campaign says donors who contribute $30 personalized impeachment defense membership cards. it's to make your feel involved. it may sound like a gimmick but you are less likely to flip because you've made an investment on siding with the president. listen to his campaign manager saying how important it is that the campaign get your digits and your e-mail.

>> they don't think you matter, but you do matter. and the way to do that is you have to help us fight against big tech and sign up to 88022. the more of you that sign up and the more millions we get directly connected, the less influence and control they have. the way we fight back is get online ourselves. we get connected, sign up for e-mails. ask your friends and neighbors and sign up to volunteer. >> i want to show a map as we continue the conversation. you see some states in the map and say why are they in california and new york. they're doing it for fund-raising. in the swing states you're getting people to sign up then they get back to you and they test what do you react to, an impeachment ad, immigration ad. what they're doing is very smart. >> much of their ads are based on fear which is what we saw in 2016, what we saw in 2018.

republicans haven't sworn off the use of disinformation tactics. they won't answer questions about whether or not they'll use troll farms or whether or not they'll use deep fakes. trump himself has even retweeted deep fake videos. that's a whole other element of this new frontier with phones that political parties are engaging in. >> brad pascal was the digital media manager of the campaign in 2016. the fact that he's running the campaign, that shows how prominent they want their digital strategy to be this year. >> they understand they're most likely going to lose the popular vote, probably by a bigger margin than last time. up next, breaking down the president's grievances and boasts at last night's rally. >> they said you went into the hospital. it's true, i didn't wear a tie. why would i wear a tie if the

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topping today's political radar, a presidential airing of grievances beyond impeachment. president trump at his florida rally last night claiming the media blew his recent hospital

visit way out of proportion. >> i'm getting out of the car. somebody said, sir, are you okay? i said yeah, what's that all about? and i walk another few feet. sir, i hope you're okay. i said what the hell is going on? and then they said i had a massive heart attack. >> the president was pointing to cnn there for the record here's how cnn reported it. >> the president made an unannounced movement to walter reed medical center and we're now being told by the white house press secretary after the president arrived there that the president is there to begin part of his annual physical exam. >> nobody is suggesting that he had any kind of symptoms. but if someone goes to the hospital a few months early, i think that would be a reasonable question. >> grisgrishom.

>> ron desantis joined the president on stage last night. >> i always thought ron was a little heavy. but i see him without his shirt one day this guy is strong. that's all power, that's all muscle. >> in case you're wondering, the "new york times" did get some clarification from the florida governor's office. he said the president had not actually seen desantis shirtless, only jacketless. when we come back, the president and his friend rudy giuliani, might there be the beginning of a break? . hey there people eligible for medicare.

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call unitedhealthcare today and ask for this free decision guide. rudy giuliani at least on paper still the president's lawyer, as far as we know. but some evidence may be of a bit of a crack. remember the transcript of that july 25th call with the ukrainian president, quote, i will tell rudy to call you. those are the words of president trump. yesterday the president says he didn't direct giuliani to do anything. >> well, you have to ask that to rudy. i don't even know -- i know he was going to go to ukraine and i think he cancelled a trip. rudy has other clients other than me. i didn't direct him but he is a warrior. rudy is a warrior. rudy went, he possibly saw -- you have to understand, rudy has other people that he represents. >> sounds like he hardly knows the guy. >> yeah. is that just an answer which the

president sometimes gives, a time filler? i didn't direct him. he has other clients. or is that the beginning of what some republicans have been privately pushing the white house to do, blame rudy? >> it's definitely been increasingly uncomfortable as federal investigators start looking at some of the consultancies and the clients that are affiliates of rudy giuliani. so it's obviously been something that is increasingly becoming a bit of a liability to be associated with him. a lot of people at the white house obviously advising the president just take a step back. the president generally defended rudy. we asked him this week. he said he's a great guy, he's the best mayor of new york city. >> these are two new yorkers. they talk in unique ways. rudy giuliani says he's being sarcastic. listen to this. >> i think things written like he's going to throw me under the

bus. when they say that, i say he isn't but i have insurance. >> what do you make of rudy giuliani saying he has insurance? >> i don't know. rudy is a great guy. rudy is the best mayor in the history of new york. rudy is a great crime fighter. rudy is a great person. >> sounds like he's a great guy. >> great guy that he hardly knows. >> either they're very loyal to each other or as rudy seems to be suggesting, they have a mutually assured destruction pact. but republicans have been repeatedly trying to differentiate becau differentiate. rudy says he was taking direct orders from trump. republicans have been trying to separate the two and not defend rudy but only defend trump. >> it was one of the interesting subplots of the hearings, was some of his strongest defenders behind the scenes really wanted to dump rudy and dump on rudy. the president never came with them on that. there was a little bit of a

perplexed feeling because of that. >> we will see how this story develops. anna cabrera starts right now. have a wonderful afternoon and thanksgiving. ♪ i'm anna cabrera on this wednesday. confirmation he got caught. why the president's knowledge of the whistleblower before he released the ukraine aid blows up his entire defense. >> and did the president just throw rudy giuliani under the bus? the ominous comments we've seen many times before. also, why has fox news host j janine pirro been at the white house todays inwo days in a row.