wasn't a constructive response. from time to time my anger and frustration was rightly directed. as long as you're human about it. a swing every now and something doesn't hurt. >> thank you sir. appreciate it. >> thank you everybody for watching. chris cuomo is up with cuomo "prime time." >> sorry, i have to go. i have a packed show. how's that for you. you don't like that. >> i can't see you. >> i look good. guess what i'm wearing. >> a black tie. white shirt. and a black suit. >> that's right. >> i was trying to remember. i'm mad as hell i'm not taking it anymore. howard beel. peter finch from net work. great movie. >> i'm taking it anymore. and round up ringing true. as a madman's rant that wound up resonating with people's actual discontent at the time.

that's the point. answer to the question you were having with the mayor there. it's about whether or not the anger is harnessing a collective feeling. when you tap into is that which i would argue president trump did, whether he meant to or not. it's very powerful. there is a difference between anger and indignation. when you're upset at something perceived to be unfair. anger because you don't like being questioned because it's disrespectful, is a mistake in politics. it shows weakness. when somebody returns an argument with anger it's weakness. >> nancy pelosi was righteous. >> somebody asked a question to a catholic. who doesn't like the idea of having -- towards others. i have known her most of my life. she is very similar to my parents. they don't talk about hateful feelings about other human beings. in truth i have never heard her

say anything different. >> do you agree that people think with the joe biden thing. it's about time. yes, go, keep going. >> i don't like that. >> i'm asking. >> they are saying it. what's the concern? not tonight. this is what -- >> role reversal. >> it's 11:00. we have time. the idea of what's the problem with biden. calling him a weak front runner. which is rare in politics. i have never heard of somebody being a front runner and being called weak. why. optics. does he have the edge to go against a perceived dragon in trump. when he denigrates him and calls him stupid names and says angry things and has people echoing it. what will joe biden do? it's not easy to answer. if you're going to match tone

and that's taking you home. that's a wrong analysis. people want normal chl it's not normal and hostile and name calling. the strongest man in the room -- lions are not bothered by the complaints of a sheep. are you a lion or sheep? that's the test. >> eagle or you know. eagles soar over everything. they're not concerned about animals on the grown. >> i'd rather be an airplane. >> i have to go. i have a packed show. have a good night. i hope tomorrow night your tie matches. welcome to "prime time." special edition. donald trump has been fas tracked to becoming the first impeached american president and says he wants it to be fast. do you believe that? big questions are now coming up about what will be the articles of impeachment. what are high crimes and misdemeanor. procedural thaws of obstruction. do you go back to mueller?

we have a leader with us tonight of the republican resistance. along with a main driver of the impeachment bus. let's test both. we have new facts. rudy giuliani, did he really just say ukraine is not going to get american help if they don't do what we want when it comes to the corruption investigations? let's get after it. speaker of the house tells cnn tonight that the president's ukraine actions quote removed all doubt. that he violated his oath of office and articles of impeachment must be drafted. what will they include? she says democrats are working collectively on determining that. and she's not ruling out drawing charges from mueller's findings. if you go too broad and include they had democrats that didn't want to move forward. does it weaken the position? that's the question.

the speaker is accusing republicans of failing to meet the standard of honoring their oath. how? by not being part of the process that is congressional over sight and instead being the president's prophesies. we have a man who wants to make his voice known and this is his fight. matt gaetz. congressman, florida. good to see you. >> thanks for having me back. >> let's deal with the new facts. rudy giuliani in ukraine meeting with people. you can talk about the company he's keeping. i'm not that interested. he puts out a tweet that says what's on the screen. he says schiff's impeachment is a farce because one there was no military aid with held. two, the conversation about corruption in ukraine was based on compelling evidence of criminal conduct by then vice president biden in 2016.

that has not been resolved until it is will be a major obstacle to the u.s. assisting ukraine with its anticorruption reform. congressman, is rudy giuliani saying if it wasn't clear enough already, if ukraine doesn't do what we want on corruption, which is biden as is clear in the tweet, you're not getting help from the u.s. >> i think it's fair to say you have to engage in anticorruption efforts to get assistance. i'll be honest, i think it it's weird rudy giuliani is in the ukraine right now. and i'm not here to defend him. there's an investigation going on and that will go where it goes. the rudy giuliani i know is the rudy giuliani who fought the mob and it wasn't a popular thing to do. he put his life on the line in 9/11. if there's anyone that ought to get benefit of the doubt. it would be him. >> i don't think he's the problem. it's who sent him.

who's paying him. why is he there. if there is a logical extension of foreign policy as you argue this was about. why is mayor giuliani involved at all? >> i don't know. >> you must know. you need to argue to defend the president. you must know. >> what i can do is point to the testimony of official morrison. who said when asked about giuliani involvement that he wasn't concerned that he didn't think it was anything inappropriate or unlawful. >> he was the only one. >> our country does have a history of using people in a non-traditional way. the president even encouraged me to meet with foreign leaders and carry a message now and then outside of the official channel. there's nothing wrong with that inherently. if giuliani did something wrong which i haven't seen evidence of of course there's a process to deal with that. >> there's a couple

investigations going on. we'll see what they yield. but the great theory here is that it's one thing to ask a congressman to do something. we don't know if this man is the president's lawyer. a proxy for the state department. or a concerned citizen. it really matters which answer is correct. because if he wasn't acting as the personal lawyer and we don't know it's true. if it was pro bono did he file it? we can't find any record of it. >> there's no obligation -- that's a red herring. >> it does if you want privilege. >> it doesn't. that is not true. >> you can't be my attorney. >> i can be your attorney and i can in the charge you and you can maintain privilege with me.

>> it's a contribution. it goes to privilege. some point he'll have to figure out what he wants exposure to be. here's the question. the theory here is you are pressuring ukraine if they don't give you bidens your not giving them money. you have the president's whatever saying i'm in ukraine. looking for dirt on the bidens and if he doesn't help they won't get money. doesn't he prove that the theory about the president is 100% accurate? >> first of all, as you point out there's some role that rudy giuliani is playing. it would be helpful if he clarified the role he was playing in different circumstances and acting for other clients that would be helpful information to have. when it comes to the president which is what this impeachment is about. you have a long held criticism and concern about foreign aid. you have a legit concern about ukraine the third most corrupt country in the world. and you have specific legit

concern about the prosecutor. kent testified there was such substantial concern that our own embassy had to pull out of a public private partnership out of fear we would be smeared. >> democratic senators asked -- >> if you have your facts right. let's be clear there there's no question there was concerns about investigating. >> challenge me on them. >> give me some time. if the idea is that this is what biden wanted, democratic senators that told ukraine you need to investigate the following people. including the person who was atop. there's no question there was question about it. the president asked for biden. and his perfect phone call. he asked for biden. concerned every one of the diplomats except morrison was this --

>> and volker. >> no, he thought it was really weird that this was becoming ability an american election. and thought it was dangerous. >> when volker was ask whether or not there was impeachable offense observed he said no. >> a legal conclusion at any trial? do you remember the lady -- really? you remember a witness being asked -- did you think it was robbery or burglary? >> look, these are people who interface with the national security apparatus regularly. ambassador volker. >> it's not their job. >> they have an ability to provide some context for the circumstances that have arisen. if given the context there was a severe concern on the part of everyone involved. you would hear the concerns from morrison. >> that's why they were testifying. >> all the people coming forward you can break down into categories, hearsay, conjecture

and speculation or a legit policy disagreement. people like vindman who -- >> circumstantial evidence. how many homicide cases are circumstantial evidence? overwhelming majority. >> presidential election. >> that's the point. in a real court of law. >> quid pro quo. and they didn't do it. democrats don't have the relevant witnesses. >> you have your ambassador a wealthy donor friend. sondland said there was a quid pro quo. everybody knew it. i was in the loop on it. and i delivered it. and he's the guy who paid his way into and made up a phone call. >> i think you lost this argument last night with mike johnson. he pointed out if you the sondland. you have to take the full sondland. the only person -- when he spoke to the president the only direct evidence about what the

president said no quid pro quo. i want nothing. i want zelensky to do the right thing. sondland and the president. >> september 9. >> no record of the call. and the only other call people knew about. >> come on. is sondland a credible witness? >> he's got pockets of credibility. he forgot -- >> credible when he says something you like. >> there's a critical point here. there's a account. sondland telling other people he's -- >> not from the september 9 call. thank you for making that point. i'll take the ball back. not september 9. he didn't explain it that way. taylor and volker said that they thought the call was crazy. and they thought what came out of it was unusual and dangerous.

this september 9 call of which there's no record of. and this state department you would think seeing how it is to what you said 100% right, it's the only piece of testimony that gives the president any clearance on this. that one call. and they won't produce any sufficient evidence that it ever happened. now, if instead of september 9 it was september 7 call. that he did tell the two men about. he didn't say any of the things the president says he said. he never told sondland it was no quid pro quo. the same phrase by the way that who said? the whistleblower. which hasn't become public yet but had been taken to the white house. how odd the president used the same phrase at whistleblower. we don't know he ever said those things. sondland says he did. in a phone call that is never been proven to exist. aren't you curious? >> to believe that version of

events is to believe ambassador sondland perjuried himself before the congress multiple times. >> or misremembered and embellished to help his buddy. >> the only record evidence is the sondland testimony saying fo quid pro quo. the president wants nothing. with that being the only evidence. >> he didn't relay it that way to the two men in testimony. >> the state department -- you make a relevant point the state department has the records why is the administration not complying with subpoenas and providing records. if you waive some of the privileges and some circumstances, you would limit your ability to protect the executive and the decision making process. not just for this president but future president. do we want presidents to meet with advisers. think outside the box. come up with crazy ideas and hone -- >> there should be executive

immunity. and privilege. i would argue i don't think that's why he's doing it. they went to court to argue immunity. they got kicked out. it's a case by case base si. this was done because he doesn't want exposure. if this was me or you and we had guys that could clear us and prove we did nothing wrong. we'd do it. congressman, you are always welcome. >> thanks. >> did you call me sean? >> you know what. high praise. >> he's got a few more million viewers. >> a few more million everything. take care. >> there's numbers that are in doubt in the house impeachment report. did intel investigators get phone records right? you have to keep the facts

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now starting at $9.99. before we talk about tax-s-audrey's expecting... new? -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. all right we have new information tonight. it is casting doubt on whether or not rudy giuliani contacted the white house budget office. why? we saw the logs. hold on. a source tells us the number listed in the democrats impeachment report associated with omb that was the chart we saw, but that number could go to pult approximately officials within the white house complex. why. discrepancy? house intel democrat joins us now. good to have you on. appreciate it.

significance of this discrepancy? >> we said at the beginning is don't read too much into all of this. what i think what we learned from the call records is that it was a whole of the administration effort. ambassador sondland said everyone was in on the loop. they were all engaged nd this. clearly this was the administration and white house working in its entirety to move this scheme forward. i don't know i can say exactly who each number is attached to that isn't identified. i tell people don't jump to the conclusion until we learn more. >> to be fair -- >> the chairman said judiciary moves fard our investigations continues we'll continue to learn more. >> there were democrats juching up and down that was an important linkage. the mayor has been clear that he

doesn't know why he would have been calling omb and never spoke about ukraine aide and didn't know about it. his tweets tonight may create another problem he seems to be connecting ukraine efforts to help with the bidens to whether or not they'll get help from the united states. i don't know why he would put out that message now. you need to show that the aide was held up as a matter of fact because it was used as leverage to get the announcement of the investigation. do you think you can do that? >> sure. people ask me who the best witness is. so far. the president of the united states. and second after that, mick mulvaney. read into this nothing these witnesses did did anything but corroborate what the president said. back to as you mention earlier the whistleblowers complaint. the call record of the white house mick mulvaney and the consistent testimony of the

cream of the diplomatic core leads to the same conclusion. the president we know they with held aide. it wasn't released until congressional pressure that it become public. clearly ukrainians was aware of it. we can get lost in the weeds here and lose nuance of the obvious fact. they talk so much and we have talked about latin phrases. quid pro quo. i think the other one we reference it's speaks for itself. in this case, the law that the president violated the harm he did speaks for itself. i just caution against reading too much into people thinking they know what this might mean. >> the more proof the less you have to listen to the -- articles of impeachment. you guys have the task of now. there's concern if you go back

to mueller. you can dove tail on obstruction. you may lose votes. are you worried if you reach back to mueller you may lose votes? >> i don't know how listing more crimes loses votes. under nixon articles of impeachment it lists four instances in which he obstructed. this president obstructed four times in one day. by with holding documents. >> keep it to ukraine. don't go beyond that or will you lose it? >> i haven't heard people tell me that personally. it's easy to add into an article that includes obstruction. the one that a special counsel mueller referenced. he rarely talked to the press. he came back and said in a press conference that he didn't exonerate the president. he said he's leaving specifically the articles involving obstruction to the congress to react. if it wasn't for the fact he wasn't allowed to indict the

president he thought those obstruction instances were something in which a president could be indicted or any other individual could. i don't think it hurts the case to dove tail into an article ten or eleven other instances in which the president of the united states violated the law and obstructed justice. >> as long as it doesn't lose votes. obviously democrat out of washington state was saying we have to be with one voice. obviously that's the tactic of the republicans. to speak all with one voice and unanimousty. in 1998 with clinton 31 democrats went against the president. five voted against him. i appreciate you reading us into this process. going to be a very important couple weeks. thank you. >> we'll get our names straight. >> take care. all right. why would the lynch pin of this

ukraine shake down go to ukraine right now. obviously talking about rudy giuliani. of all places to be. what's the play? let's look through the investigative lens. fbi vet andrew mccabe. can he make sense of it. [airport pa]"all flights have been delayed." t-mobile makes the holidays easier... ...like this. because right now when you buy one of the latest samsung phones you get one free. on that. so you can post this... ...score this... ...be there like this... ...and share all of this... ...with that. so do this, on that, with us. now, buy a samsung galaxy s10 or note 10 and get one free. o♪ ozempic®! ♪ oh! oh! (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®.

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all right. so open up the file of you can't make this up. tuck this bad boy in there. rudy giuliani is back in ukraine. meeting with a fringe ukrainian

lawmaker who is not only part of a pro-russian party the man is known to have publicly pushed for investigations into the biden family himself. no surprise at the meeting. pressed on the trip, mr. giuliani remains coyish. >> what's the ukraine trip all about? >> i can't really describe it. i can't even confirm it. i can tell you that i am doing today all day and all night, for a year and a half. i'm representing my client. >> mccabe is here. you know how i feel about the issue of what client? have you prayinaying. did you report it? it will matter in terms of privilege and understanding his role. however. if you could put giuliani in a worse place and saying worse things right now, his clients

interest. could you come up with a worse combination? >> you could not. if you are at all engaged in trying to help this president navigate what is an exten shl crisis through the presidency getting through impeachment process, the one place on earth that you don't want rudy giuliani is in ukraine taking documents from a known corrupt ukrainian politician likely about joe biden and having those pictures posted on the internet. it's unbelievable. >> and tweeting. ukraine better get its act together. and help. united states. united states assistance in the anticorruption effort. he's speaking for the united states. as the president's lawyer but maybe not. because he says hes working for the state department. maybe not. he says he's a corruption buster. never the less, let's say he's wildly successful and comes back on this show and says this is

proof biden did it. this is proof biden did it. and all lines up. how does it change the case against the president? it still wasn't the right way to adduce the claims from ukraine. >> and nobody knows that better than a former prosecutor. a former united states attorney in the southern district of new york. he knows that if he is in possession of evidence of corruption and misdeed and law breaking on a u.s. citizen and former vice president. the proper place for the evidence is sorry to say not your show. but the department of justice. we have laws that prohibit american citizens from going over seas and engages in corrupt practices with foreign officials. if that ever happened and to this day we don't have any indication it did, that information should be given to the department of justice to be handled through our criminal justice system. >> so, when you're looking through the lens of what this

means, and rudy comes up on the call sheet with omb. that may have been a bounced number. could have gone to different places. how strong a case do the democrats have that we can prove that trump held the money up. maybe through a proxy. it has to be one step away to be politically convincing. it's not a court of law. it's public opinion. they can move he held up aide for the announcement. >> you don't have approximator perfect direct evidence. there's no note signed by trump saying please hold up aide to ukraine. i don't think the rudy giuliani phone call gets you closer to that even if we can prove the number is some person somebody else connected. we do have is numerous witnesses who will testify credibly and consistently that they're understanding from the comments of other people was that the

order to hold up the military aide came from the president through mick mulvaney. to omb. you have ambassador taylor who heard that related from an official on the teleconference on the 18th of july. in addition to taylor there are several witnesses that corroborate not only that teleconference but other interactions with folks who say this was coming direct from the white house. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. times are tense. it is rare to see nancy pelosi or joe biden do what they did today. did you hear their quotes? you don't want to be on the other end of that finger. let's talk about what happened and why. (contemplative synth music)

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did you see jolting joe biden going at with a voter about his son. >> you on the other hand sent your son over there. in order to get access for the president.

>> damn hirliar, man. that's not true. you see it on tv. i know you do. >> the reason i'm running is because i have been around a long time. i get things done. you want to check my sheet line let's do push ups together. let's run. whatever you want to do. number two, no one has said my son has done anything wrong and i did not on any occasion and no one said it -- >> i didn't say you were doing anything wrong. >> i set up my son to work in an oil company. isn't that what you said? get your words straight, jack. >> you did not hear that on msnbc.

look, here's the deal. >> you don't have anymore backbone than trump does. >> any other questions? >> i'm not voting for you. >> i knew you weren't. you're too old to vote for me. >> cap hol hill this was speaker pelosis response to a reporter who asked her if she hated president trump. >> i don't hate anybody. i was raised in a catholic house. >> i did not accuse you. i asked a question. >> the democrats are doing this because they don't like the guy.

>> i have nothing to do with that. >> it's an important point. >> the president is a coward when it comes to helping kids. who are afraid of gun violence. he is cruel when he doesn't deal with helping dreamers. he's in denial about the climate crisis. however, that's about the election. this is about the election. take it up inspect election. this about the constitution opt united states and the facts that lead to the president violation of the oath of office. as a catholic i resent your using the word hate. in a sentence that addresses me. i don't hate anyone. i was raised in a way that is full of love. and always pray for the president. and i still pray for the president. i pray for the president all the time. don't mess with me when it comes to words like that. >> comedian calls these skipty

paps they were given the people. how do we read? is this a new tactic is this a reflection of heated times. let's take it to the professor. great mind who wrote the book on polarization in america. we have doctor brownstein. thanks for being with us. (wheels screeching) (clapping) (sound of can hitting bag and bowl) (clapping) always there in crunch time.

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trump uses anger to make people angry. that's why i've argued some of his hateful rhetoric proves him to be a demagogue. so, what's up with former vp biden and the speaker of the house speaker pelosi, fighting fire with fire or just starting to tire of the bs? i'm joined by ron brownstein. professor, what's your take? >> fire, tire. i don't think this is a strategic move by either of them. i think we're going to see angry nancy pelosi in the next few weeks as impeachment moves to its inevitable conclusion in the house and i don't think we're going to see angry joe biden on a daily basis. but i think each of their reactions is on brand for them. as you pointed out there is a

difference between indignation and anger. indignation that pelosi showed was very on brand for her. especially in this go around as the speaker, steely is the one word that comes to mind for her. then for biden, his basic claim is that he's a straight shooter. don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. i think that was an episode of that today for him. i don't think it was off brand for either of them, but i don't think it's going to be a routine occurrence going forward. >> let's move past brand into just what plays and how in terms of how it helps you win or not. we both know what the stink is on biden. oh, does he have the strength, the toughness to go against trump when they're going toe to toe. pelosi is not in that mix, but biden is. >> right. >> what is the right path there? >> well, i think -- i think on balance more often than not for

him it is kind of a return to normalcy, a president that is less volatile, less confrontational. i think that is essentially what he's selling. but democrats want someone who is strong enough to stand up to donald trump. while we're talking about this, yesterday sitting across from the world leader, he described adam schiff as a deranged maniac, very sick individual. he's accused pelosi and schiff of treason and being traitors. so, you know, there's a pretty high bar here for kind of outrageous language and behavior. but i think on balance, biden more often than not is going to be a calming presence. but i think people want him to be able to stand up for himself when he feels that he's being unfairly accused and certainly if he is the nominee, he's going to have plenty of opportunity to do that against donald trump. >> i didn't have a long time to think about it, but don brought up this segment in the last hour. we're out of it tonight.

don is on at a usual time, i'm on at 9:00. i really believe that maybe the best path for biden is the mike wallace path. mike wallace, may he rest in peace, wasn't somebody who got into shouting matches with his opponent. but what he was brilliant at doing with subjects was saying, wait, what did you just say? did you just call them a brown menace? i think that that may be the betwixt route that when the president says vulgar and profane things, you don't match it. you expose it for what it is. we both know what the president is going to do. he's going to be like yeah, that's right. that's what i said. and biden will be able to say that's the problem. you actually mean it. i wonder if that's the best path because you're not going to one up him. you're not going to beat a demagogue unless you're a demagogue. >> this is not a strategic move that we're going to see angry

joe biden every day. i think you're right. look at the campaign video they put out on world leaders mocking trump which is one of the most well received things they've done in this campaign. it struck a bone you want to strike in dealing with trump kind of like almost bemusement at, you know, the way he has transformed the presidency, not always the most strident and angry. there's plenty to be angry about. look at the tape that propub lica released of a 16-year-old left alone to die in a cell in border custody the day after we had a debate whether or not it was inappropriate for the law professor to mention the name of the president's son. i don't think he has to stoke that on a regular basis. >> the remaining question is how do the democrats counter the anger and -- you talk about righteous indignation.

it is by definition righteous indignation that people who follow this president, some are extreme thinker, some are fringe political types. but there is righteous indignation. how do you match that? how do you harness it? how do you create a home for it in your party? we'll see if they can figure it out. thank you very much as always. a little different tonight, but i thank you for watching very much "cuomo prime time" at a special hour. the news continues on cnn right now. -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

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good evening. it's all but certain donald j. trump will be impeached. whatever you think of him, his conduct, or allegations against him, what nancy pelosi said this morning likely sealed this day in history. >> sadly, but with confidence and humility, with allegiance to our founders and a heart full of love for america, today i am asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> and with that, president trump is now facing what only three other presidents have, house lawmakers drawing up formal indictments against him. andrew johnson, bill clinton were ultimately impeached. richard nixon resigned instead. and just as then, the process now is divisive. it started up passions and partisanship and gave rise to allegations such as this one earlier today. >> do you hate the president,