this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you today from london. on the show today, nato. the western alliance celebrated 70 years at a summit this week, but is the organization suffering from brain death has president macron claims. >> you can't go around making statements like that about nato. >> is it obsolete as president trump said during the 2016 campaign. >> nato is obsolete. i'll talk to the secretary general of nato. and as britain heads to the

polls, brexit is now a real possibility. >> we are now going to get brexit. >> i sat down with the man who started it all, the head of the brexit party, the always colorful nigel farage. >> you woutotal rubbish. >> also unrest in iran. people are rising up again, and the regime is reacting with deadly violence. i'll talk to the iranian journalist who was arrested in the uprising and crackdown during the 2009 green revolution. but first, here's my take. republicans have rallied to donald trump's defense with a vigor and fros if i that might have even surprised the president. it was only a few years ago many of them suggested he was not really a republican and certainly not a conservative. but now all republicans love trump.

and purist conservative groups like the tea party patriots, freedom works and the club for growth are mobilizing their millions of supporters to fight for the president. why? the answer given most often is that when you look past the circus, the president has been a reliable and staunch conservative. and while this is undeniably true in some areas, it's mostly in the realm of social and cultural policy. appointing judges, tightening rules relating to abortion, immigration and asylum. in what republicans used to call the core of their agenda, limited government, trump has been profoundly unconservative. take the issue that produced the tea party. america's run away debt. in 2012 future house speaker paul ryan said -- >> in this generation a defining responsibility of government is to steer our nation clear of a debt crisis while there is still time. >> in his first year in office,

trump with the uger assistance of a republican house and senate blew up the american budget with a tax cut that ballooned the deficit to $1 trillion and will add nearly $2 trillion over ten years. the problem about deficits has been noted but what is most striking is the abandon of fiscal conservative is part of a larger remake of conservativism itself. trump has added more than $88 billion in taxes according to tariffs. despite what the president said, remember, tariffs are taxes on foreign goods paid for by american consumers. this has had the effect of reducing gdp and denting the wages of americans. even the administration acknowledges the pain caused by the trade wars, responding to one bad policy with another. massive subsidies to favored

victims. for example, farmers. the bailout to farmers just under $30 billion now dwarfed the $12 billion the 2009 auto bailout cost the federal government. more even than free trade, conservatives have believed in the idea that governments should not pick winners and losers in the economy. an idea fundamental that trump tweeted it out soon after announcing his candidacy. yet the trump administration has behaved like a central planning agency granting waivers an tariffed to favored companies while refusing them to others. bibles and fracking chemicals are among the products saved from tax. lobbyists, lawyers and corporate executives line up to petition officials for waivers granted in an opaque process. awe this favoritism fits well with the desire to engage in

industrial policy. but shaped for his personal agenda. he consistently helps companies and workers in key battle ground states he hopes to win in 2020 when he decides that he doesn't like a company or the chief executive, he attacks them by name. on the core issue that used to define the gop, economics, the party's agenda today is state planning and crony capitalism. and this is what so-called conservatives are doubling down to defend. let's get started. the leaders of the western world gathered on the outskirts of london this week to celebrate the 70th anniversary of nato. and to continue a debate that has been raging recently about its future.

the north atlantic treaty organization was founded in 1949 with 12 onlial members. the big four was the soviet union. today nato has 29 members who face threats as varied as russia, islamic terror, and cyber and space war. president trump has shaken the membership of the organization by waffling on it most important reason for being, the collective defense of its members. article 5 states an armed attack against one or more member station shall be considered an attack against them all. now the president of france also believes that nato is in very bad shape. i sat down with the head of nato at the summit this week. mr. secretary general, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you for having me. >> i've heard some of your defenses about many of the things that have been said this summit. president trump said nato was

obsolete. now the french president says nato is brain dead. you point out there have been disagreements in the past, but this time, in the past it was over policies or suez or the iraq war. this is almost a disagreement about the existential existence of nato itself. >> the leader's meeting this week has been that all allies, those who have expressed critical concerns, they are committed to nato, to the idea of a -- because we are safer when we stand together. and they're not only committed in words, but the reality is that north america and europe do more together than they've done for many years. increased forces. we have combat troops in the eastern part of the lines. european -- modernized economic structure and for the first time in our history we're addressing

the consequences for nato of the rise of china. so nato is changing. that's what we have done for decades and that's what we continue to do. >> let me ask you about the points macron made, one was that if you listen to president trump, he is saying that i do not take responsibility for european security. i do not think the threats to europe are threats to the united states. when he talks about terrorism in europe, he says those are your problems. in a sense he's saying the united states under trump is detaching itself from your people problems and president trump said we benefit the least of all countries. do you worry without the anchor of the u.s. nato will not be what it used to be? >> i am confident the u.s. will remain committed to nato for several reasons. first of all, that is something the president has expressed, meeting the 28 other nato

leaders in london this week. second, i -- the u.s. congress this spring was very strong, bipartisan support to nato in the congress. third, if you look at opinion polls in the united states, actually, record high support for nato. and then on top of that, the united states is actually now not decreasing but increasing its military presence in europe, the u.s. is leading on the battle groups in the other than part of the alliance. the fact that there are more u.s. soldiers in europe, can i hardly think of a bigger commitment than that. >> president trump was asked and he said it used to be that we were allied against a faux, a so-called faux, he said, who may not be a faux anymore. do you think russia is no longer a faux of nato? >> we don't list foes. we don't define russia as an

enemy. what we see is a more sordid russia, reduced military force against neighbor, ukraine. we see a more unpredictable security landscape with the prize of terrorism of isis. we see cyber threats. we see global bans and power shifts with the rise of china. in uncertain times, we need strong national institutions like nato. >> but is russia a foe or a friend? >> we don't divide the world into either foes or friends. >> it used to be said that purpose of nato is to keep the russians out, the americans in, and the germans down. what's left? just to keep the americans in, then? >> to be honest, that doesn't apply today. first of all, nato is to keep all of us in. it's good for u.s. it's good for canada. it's good for europe that we

stand together. russia, well, we strive for better relationship, russia is not the same as the society union was during the cold war. germany is now playing a more and more important role in nato. they haven't reached 2% defense spending but they have increased significantly. now germany is the second largest defense spender in europe just after the united kingdom. so we welcome the germany is playing a more important role in nato. >> mr. secretary general, pleasure to have you. >> thank you. next, the other big buzz in britain this week has been anticipation of the upcoming elections. will boris johnson win and remain prime minister? will he be able to pull britain out of the eu three years after they chose to leave it? i'll talk to a man who was one of the few original advocates, the always outspoken and

controversial, nigel farag.

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on thursday voters in the uk will be voting on whom to send to parliament from their local constituency. the bigger stake is which party

gets to name the next prime minister. boris johnson, current p.m. is at the moment ahead in the polls. and with the bookmakers of britain. if he does win, he's promised a brexit. i would say that outcome might have been impossible without nigel farage, aka, mr. brexit. he's been one of the earliest, loudest and longest proponents of britten's withdrawal from the european union. he's the head of the upstart brexit party. nigel, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. >> so this has been a tough week for you in a sense that the party that you lead has four members of the european parliament have quit the party and urged people who were thinking of voting for the brexit party to vote conservative. theory being boris johnson is the guy who's going to deliver brexit. isn't it fair to say that this is now the role you have been cast in in history that is you were one of the earliest,

loudest proponents of brexit, but your success is that the conservative party has adopted your agenda. >> to some extent, absolutely. in february this year brexit was stuck in the weeds. we had half a million people marching through london. a second referendum was the cry. i think we had the worst prime minister in theresa may since lord north lost north america as she was pretty hopeless. >> we thought he was pretty good. >> and johnny well done you, but this is the battle for our independence from the european union, and i just having spent 25 years building a fringe movement to a level where it posed an existential threat to the conservatives. they gave us a referendum. they won the referendum. i was happy in 2016 to take a backseat, but here's the thing. the brexit that boris has been offering doesn't actually take

us out fully of european law, of european institutions. and potentially makes even doing a trade deal with america very difficult. so yes, i accept the point i've shifted the agenda. we are now going to get brexit. it's going to happen. we're going to leave at the end of january. i've got no doubt about that. the debate now isn't whether we get brexit. it's whether it's brexit in name only or something meaningful. >> when you look back, what do you think turned your movement for brexit from as you called it a fringe? it really was, into something broader? i look at it and it seems as though immigration was the central issue that seemed to make it more mainstream. >> i think all the while eu membership, and let's remember particularly for americans watching this, this is not nafta. this is not a free trade club with rules.

this is actually the growth of a new state based in brussels where the guys are the real power. the elected european commission. and sector by sector we saw eu rule affecting different industries but you're right. the real mass effect was in 2004 when eight, then ten former communist countries joined the european union with complete rights of free movement. now, if you say to people in poor countries, you can move to a rich country, what do you think is going to happen? clearly you're going to be massive transfers of people for 60 years after world war ii, net migration to our country ran at roughly 30,000 to 50,000 a year. it worked and we had assimilation within our country. we open up the doors to former communist countries and that number became ten times that number. i mean, we have had an 8 million increase in our population since

1997, and 80% of that is directly as a result of migration policies. and what ordinary decent -- and by the way, these aren't knuckle dragging racists. they're normal people who saw their quality of life diminishing, their access to public services diminishing. so yes, opening up the doors made a lot more people realize that being involved with europe was not what mom and dad voted for. my mom and dad would rather be friend with our neighbors, do more business with them, not to be one by brussels and have open borders. >> britain's role, i notice brexit seems to be a part of larger british kind of withdrawal from the world. >> answer, rubbish. >> it feels like it. >> answer, rubbish. >> you're not interest the in the world that much? >> answer complete, total rubbish. now, look. >> look at the size of your

army. look at the size of the navy. everything is being hallowed out. foreign services is being -- i mean -- >> i'm -- every indication. >> i'm appalled by that. >> every british newspaper, there's almost no foreign news anymore. >> the existing establishment have virtually since the soviets crisis of 1956 with a brief ten-year aberration, but no, we've -- our principle has been manage decline. manage decline. and that is the defeatism of the british establishment. the fault that we're not good enough to run ourselves anymore. i want to tell you this. i'm the father of brexit in many ways. i view brexit at far from being insular and pulling our homes from the world. i view brexit as the opportunity to reach out to the world. brexit is about us reasserting

our place in the world. do you know as members of the european union, we don't even have a seat on the world trade organization. we've been nothing. we're becoming a province of the united states of europe. i think we're better than that. >> next on gps, i will ask nigel farage who greatly admires donald trump by the president is so unpopular in britain. we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

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back now with more of my interview with nigel farage. >> you know president trump pretty well. >> i do, yeah. >> do you think that there are real similarities between the kind of what is called populism that you have sparked and what's going on in america? i ask this because on the central issue of immigration, it's quite different. the united states actually has at this point, for example, net

migration from mexico is essentially zero. there is no european union type freedom of movement. we don't have vast numbers of people coming in. what's going on -- when you look at it, it's going on in america? >> there are similarity between the brexit movement and the trump movement and big differences, too. the similarities are the belief that the nation state is the essential building block. there is nothing wrong, nothing shameful about flying the flag or being patriotic. and that you are naturally suspicious of organizations like the european union with its super national structures or even the united nations if it goes in the wrong direction. the basic belief that immigration should be managed sensibly to the benefit of a country. again, those are strong similarities. the idea that you should actually put your own people first just as we all put our own families first and not our next

door neighbors are similarities. >> why is donald trump so unpopular in britain? i mean, he's toxic. right? obama's approval rating was 70 odd%. >> it's wall to wall anti-trump, anti-trump media, anti-trump pc storm. literally nobody with the exception of myself prepared. and i always say, look, this guy is a new yorker. he's from queens. he's a bit out there. he's a bit what we would call in this country, a rough diamond. you know? rough around the edges. >> i think many would not call him a diamond at all. >> well, it's just -- it's an english expression. excuse me for using it. from our perspective, the point i want to make to brit ib people is when it comes to defense our most important partner is the usa. when it comes to intelligence

sharing and dealing with potential threats, our most important partner in the world is the usa. money and investment, we are the biggest foreign investor in america and america is the biggest foreign investor here. if we broke down the other trade barriers, think about how much closer that relationship could be, and cultural, do our teenagers, to my kids look to europe for their culture? no, they look to america. so we are very, very close. >> let me ask you something. trump did not interfere in the british elections this last week when many people thought he can't stop himself from opining on issues. you tried to get him to on our radio program, and he didn't. were you surprised by the kind of discipline? >> do you know something? if he wants to be disciplined, he can, but generally he doesn't generally think that's very important. and, you know, he's in a way, in

a way, he's been a gift, of course, to cnn. he's been a gift to the new york times and many of his opponents, but there is a certain openness about trump which whether you like him as a person or not, i think is rather endearing. >> if you ask him, what you think of what trudeau said, he'll give you an answer. >> i rather agree with him. we're so used to robots who leave the best universities in north america in the united kingdom, go into political research, become congressmen or members of parliament. we're so used to the career politician. not wanting to make any mistakes. informer really telling the world what they think but what they think the world wants to hear. i think it's good to have people who have passion. >> do you think that's part of his appeal? >> absolutely. i think plain speaking.

you've got middle america, the flyover states. we have middle england, and these are people who couldn't give a damn about what our will language or the washington swamp think is important. they like people, even if they disagree with their views, they like a certain honesty. >> that's what we get from you. nigel farage, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. next, what to make of the nato summit, the state of transalantic relations. i have a terrific panel to talk about it all. ok everyone!

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in britain and the world with our panel. alister campbell. the current cover story of britain's nightmare before christmas, referring to the election. zani, what's the big picture in terms of what are we seeing in terms of the labor party, the tory party, if you pull back, what's the story? >> the big story is both of britain's major parties have moved toward the extreme. the toris have moved clearly toward a harder brexit, get brexit done. the labor party has moved to a radical socialist manifesto. britain, it's the reason we gave the cover.

it's the choice between two incredibly unappealing extreme options. hard brexit, radical socialism. >> and the toris seem to have been remade in the image of brexit, suspicious of europe. in much the same way the republicans have been remade into the party of trump. >> i think there are parallels. the toris who under david cameron for much of the last 15, 20 years modernized themselves into being outward looking liberal party are shifting thanks to brexit to becoming a much more nationalist populist party, and their electoral trat ji is to win the election, and it looks like they will with a majority, by grabbing seats from labor, traditionally working class seats. >> why has labor moved so far left? >> general corbyn, that's what he believes. and it's true, it's not just the parallels in terms of what might

become of britain. we see it in the nature of the campaign as well. a bit like donald trump. boris johnson doesn't care whether what he says is true or not. he pairs about the impact. get brexit done is a lie. they're not going to get brexit done quickly at all. we're now into the next stage of a difficult process. >> i think unlike any election i can think of in the uk where there's outright lying on both sides and people are unembarrassed about it. >> and that system, the system is corrupt, so getting a disrupter is fine. they all lie, what difference does it make if he lies more. right? >> he has played on that, and my experience is most politicians do most of the time try to tell the truth, but when you have something like trump who becomes president and is elected knowing he's a liar and a racist and misogynist, i think we are doing is t same thing here. i think it's dangerous for democracy. i think it's why the russians are very happy with the way it's

going, and i think for the public, yes, i can see why lots and lots of people in some of these more working class areas of the uk, they're thinking well, they've all let us down, but actually, the guy that they look like they might be rewarding for that, he's going to be the one who's really going to make their lives difficult because hard brexit is going to hit those places hardest of all. >> what did we learn about johnson and trump this week? he seemed very, very reluctant to embrace donald trump. is donald trump that toxic? >> yes, he is toxic. that was frankly a sensible thing to do, to keep as far away from donald trump as he could the week before election in a country where donald trump is not popular. >> but on brexit, his big strategy is we can get rid of europe and do a trade deal with the americans. he will pay a price. >> you would have said keep away. >> i wouldn't have said be rude to him. listen, he's going to pay a

price for that. >> the real problem with the u.s. trade deal which is clearly something that many in the tori party are hoping for, get brexit done, leave fast. that's not going to be at all easy, but the hope is a trade deal with the u.s. i can't see that happening and i can't see it happening for two reasons. first, it's clear that two priorities for the americans are greater access to pharmaceutical or agricultural products. for good or will, there's an allergy to any access to the nhs and having american chlorinated chicken. people really don't want it. so that makes the politics of giving away on either of those really difficult. so from the uk side, i can't see how a deal gets done. on the u.s. side, the notion that you're going to have congress approve a trade deal rapidly in the u.s. political environment, and frankly, whoever wins the u.s. election next year, i can't see this being high. i just don't see that happening. that's a pillar of the sort of

if there is a logic to the brexit process, it is to have great possibility for trade deals for the uk, the biggest one out there, i don't think is going to happen. >> and which part of america first is -- are we not listening to here? so i think we're going to be weakened with europeans and weakened with the americans, and johnson, yes, he might win with his get brexit done slogan, but he's going to find that once you get into the truth, it gets hard. >> sounds like it's nightmare before christmas and after christmas. >> there's one silver lining. our process doesn't take as long as the u.s. we get resolution. >> and it doesn't cost as much. i noticed the toris raised ten times as much labor, and it was like 3 million pounds. i thought that's a congressional seat in america. >> pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. >> next on gps, some say iran is seeing the greatest unrest since

the 1979 revolution. is this regime ready to topple when we come back? mike bloomberg's never been afraid of tough fights,

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into the streets in protest and the regime crack down has been swift and violent. a u.s. official said as many as 1,000 may have died. 72 people were killed in the 2009 green revolution. let me bring in a former colleague of mine at needs week who was imprisoned for 118 days for his reporting during the 2008 protests. what are you hearing? you run a very important source of iranian news, iran wire. what are you hearing about what's going on right now? >> well, the country is in a security situation right now. basically a state of siege. we're receiving videos of police shooting at people. we've talked to doctors, i've talked personally to doctors who have been telling me that they saw people were getting shot in the heart and in the head. even though their training says you have to shoot people in the leg in order to disperse

demonstrations. so the country is still in shock. they don't know what happened during the two or three days after the protests. during the protests. and people -- many people in iran want regime change now. what they want to change the regime to, that is a big question. and there's no cohesive alternative to this regime. there are some people who support the son of the former shaw of iran. there are some people who support different groups. even the leader of the green movement in iran who is under house arrest, he has basically said that the islamic republic is dead and that the supreme leader of iran, his reign is ill

la jit mat. they are trying to crush people's protest on one hand, and on the other hand, people are facing a new reality. they knew the regime was brutal. they knew that the regime was violent. but in the last two weeks they've seen it with their own eyes. and many people in iran, it's difficult to say how many, what's the percentage. many people in iran, they want a regime change. >> as you say, it isn't clear what that would mean, because there isn't a clear opposition in 1979 they said death to the shaw, long live -- today if they say death to this regime, death even to the leader, who are they saying long live? >> some people say long live the -- >> the son of the shaw. my sense is that's a minority. >> we don't know. it's difficult to report in iran. it's difficult for the reporters who live in iran to report on

the streets. all foreign media, they've been banned from reporting in the streets. they've shot down the internet, of course, some cities still don't have internet. it's very difficult to communicate with people, and people are still in shock. so the regime also must be -- >> must be paying a price. you shut down the internet, you can't do banking. >> what's interesting is that many iranian is using the chinese technology in order to shut down the internet, and many iranians are using the technology developed by chinese opposition in order to circumvent those. >> both sides are using chinese? >> i think iranians are -- they see themselves as part of this global movement which is from chile to lebanon to iraq to hong kong. >> how does american pressure play into this? u.s. -- the trump administration

has put a lot of pressure, a lot of sanctions on the regime. >> when the american government sanctioned the revolutionary guards, that meant that many financial institutions that are owned by the revolutionary guards, they were subjected to sanctions, because right now revolutionary guards is not just military force. it's the biggest industrial institution in iran. it has many universities. it has many hospitals. so all those institutions within the revolutionary guards were subjected to sanctions, and as a result, iranian people are suffering. >> the u.s. says it's going to deploy forces to deter iran in the gulf, not quite sure what that means but again, ratcheting up the pressure. do you think there's a likely had that something exploes ivecould happen in the next few months? >> i hope not, but in this very volatile, very explosive

situation, something can happen, that can be counterer productive for the u.s. and for iran. and military confrontation with the u.s. frightens many iranians who still they are scarred by years of war with iraq. and they do not welcome it. they welcome president trump's speech who expressed solidarity with the iranian people. they even support certain sanctions against certain human rights violators and iran yees nuclear program, but a war with the u.s. that will result in many death and much destruction is frightening iranian people. >> pleasure to have you on. we will be watching what happens next. and we will be back. own ultimatt is back at red lobster. with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon.

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you heard my interview earlier with nato secretary general here in london where the alliance was celebrating the 70th birthday. you may know that nato has only invoked article 5, the agreement

to treat an attack on one ally as an attack on all once. when member states supported the united states after 9/11. but that wasn't the first time a member state was attacked. it brings me to my question. why didn't argentina's 1982 invasion of the british-controlled forkland islands trigger article 5? britain declined help. the u.s. vetoed, attacks in the southern hem center don't count, or everyone forgot about it? my book of the week is prisoners of geography. this is a good idea speshabuper executed. it explains the world starting with geography, russia, ukraine, iraq, all through the rich lands of the map. the answer to my gps challenge this week is c, while nato's

article 5 designated an armed attack to be an attack on all members yrg article six specifies that only attacks on territories or forces north of the tropic of cancer county. when there was aim at the rocky islands with more people an pengui penguins, britain was to fight alone, but don't get it twisted. just because nato didn't intervene in 1982 doesn't mean it wouldn't today. invoking article 5 is ultimately a political decision in the hands of nato's ruling body. meaning even nonconventional threats can mobilize the combined might of 29 nations. of course, that can only happen if the organization survives the remainder of the trump presidency. thanks to you for being part of my program. i'll see you next week. buildingl 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband--

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this is reliable sources our weekly look at the story behind the story. let's get to that. karl burnstein, and david from are standing by to analyze coverage of the impeachment hearings and to look at how rudy giuliani is using a far right wing tv channel to blow smoke. politicians using the courts to punish the press. we'll have a look at what devin nunes has been doing. and startling findings from a new study about how we all

consume news on our smart