tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN March 1, 2020 10:00am-11:01am PST
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this is "gps," global public square. welcome to all of you around the united states and the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, the coronavirus has gone global and so has the fear. markets everywhere have crashed. how bad can this all get? is there a solution? i'll ask the experts. also, a new era for afghanistan. will an american pullout change
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the war-torn nation and for the better or worse. we'll have a great depend. while in new delhi this week president trump touted religious tolerance of prime minister modi. >> he wants people to have religious freedom and very strongly. >> in the very same city, religious clashes erupted killing dozens of people this week alone. what is going on in india? we'll ask an intrepid reporter on the ground in delhi. first here is my take. i want to talk about bernie sanders who is still, besides south carolina, the odds on favorite to win the democratic nomination. sanders says his proposals are not radical at all, pointing again and again to countries in northern europe such as denmark and norway as the kind of economic system he wants to
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bring to america, but is he right about these countries? take billionaires, sanders has been very clear on the topic. billionaires should not exist. but sweden and norway have more billionaires per capita than the united states. more over, inherent in taxes in sweden and norway are zero and denmark 15%. america's estate tax is 40%. all the data come from nonpartisan tax foundation or oecd. sanders vision seems to be stuck in the '60s and '70s, when those were, indeed, pioneering social market economy. in sweden government spending as a percentage of gdp doubled from the 1960s to the 1908s. as swedish commentator points out, this experiment in sanders-style democratic socialism tanked the swedish economy between 1970 and 1995 he
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notes sweden did not create a single net new job in the private sector. in 1991 a free market minister built a series of reforms to kick-start the economy. by mid 2000s sweden had cut the size of its government by a third and emerged from its long economic slump sz. versions of this problem took place all over new york creating what is now called the flex security model, combined flexible markets with a security net. the first part of the model is key, ensuring employers have the flexibility to hire and fire workers easily without excessive regulation or litigation. in addition these countries have to stay extremely open, erecting no barriers to free trade, access to markets abroad and keep local countries competitive. it's true, these countries have
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a very generous safety net. in order to fund it, they have high taxes. what is often not pointed out, however, is that in order to raise enough revenue to pay for these taxes fall disproportionately on the poor, middle and upper middle class. denmark has one of the highest top income rates in oecd, 55.9%. that rate is applied to anyone making 1.3 times the national income. in the u.s. this would mean any income over $65,000 would be taxed at a rate of 55.9%. the biggest hit to the poor and middle classes in europe comes because they like everyone pay a national sales tax of 55%, much higher than the average u.s. sales tax of 7%. these countries raise more than 20% of their revenue this way compared to 8% of tax revenue in
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the u.s. one final statistic. a 2008 oecd report found the top 10% in the united states pay 45% of all income taxes while the top 10% in denmark pay 26%. in sweden, 27%. this basic point is worth underlining because the american left seems largely unaware of it and only become more true over the last decade. the united states has a significantly more progressive tax code than europe. in other words, bringing the economic system of denmark, sweden and norway to the united states would mean embracing more flexible labor markets, regulations and deeper commitment to free trade. it would mean a more generous set of social benefits to be paid for by taxes on the middle class and poor. if bernie sanders embraced all that, it would be radical indeed.
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for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week, and let's get started. america's longest war, the so-called forever war, may actually be ending in may. yesterday in delhi represents of united states and taliban signed an agreement for bringing peace to afghanistan. the document sets a 14-month window for the u.s. to withdraw troops, also calls for a release of up to 5,000 taliban prisoners. on the other side it plans to prevent terror groups to threaten united states and its allies. there's one absolutely critical party to any afghan peace who wasn't at the signing, the president of afghanistan, ash ar ghani. he may not have been in doha but
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he joins me now in kabul. welcome, mr. president. >> it's a pleasure to be with you. >> the day before the signing the head of the media operation says this is a defeat for the arrogance of the white house in the face of the white turban. is it a defeat for america? >> no, it's not. the narrative is false because there's been no military defeat. it's political decision to end the war politically, not only is the united states not defeated, the afghan security forces are at their best. in the last seven months, it's been taliban that had been losing. our conviction that the war must end politically is what has driven this process forward. victors of the war or no one.
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victors of the peace are the people of afghanistan. we need to drop that kind of arrogant language and move forward to discuss our differences in the ways where we can come together as a united country, a united people in a united nation. >> the 5,000 prisoners who have been mentioned, as you pointed out, are not being released by the united states. they are under your authority, the authority of the afghan government. i remember when the united states released five afghan prisoners from guantanamo, an exchange for bowe bergdahl an outcry among the republican party. now a republican president is asking you to release 5,000 prisoners of war. before you even start talks with
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taliban. is that going to happen? >> president trump is not asking me to release these people. we have not made a decision to release them. it's a sovereign afghan decision. we will discuss the release of prisoners as part of a peace deal, which is to be comprehensive, this is to discuss. the wording used there is the united states will facilitate. we made it clear to the ambassador that the political capital and the consensus in the country that would be an accessory for such a major step does not exist today. we need to be that significant issues, a permanent cease-fire discussion of the special relationship of taliban to the countries that provide them
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sanctuary, especially pakistan, their relationship with all terrorist organizations, not just al qaeda, their relationship with drug cartels and most fundamentally the basic rights of the people of afghanistan, the place of our security forces and civilian administration are discussed. it's very clearly conveyed to them that they cannot put conditions, just technically it's not possible to release 5,000 prisoners. it's a painstaking process. each person needs to be checked and in return for what? we need to understand that the afghan people have to see continuous commitment, not a sense of false claims of victory
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because all our forces and government capabilities are in tact. >> what you are outlining is more ambitious. that is the reference to the sanctuary the taliban have in pakistan, which is not mentioned in the deal, which has, of course, been crucial to their continued viability. will you insist that be dismantled? >> absolutely. if you're going to have sustainable peaks, there needs to be clear commitment that they are going to dismantle their structures outside. the people of afghanistan need to believe we have gone from war to peace and not the agreement will be a trojan horse or beginning of a much worse phase of conflict. >> the deal envisions the taliban actually assisting in
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counter-terror activities. president trump says they are going to be killing a lot of bad guys. so far the taliban has been regarded as one of the principle terror organizations. they were the bad guys. do you think they will flip and start killing bad guys? >> this is the billion dollar question. in discussions within the united states, they have made verbal promises. in agreements with us, they have to make verifiable commitments. verification is everything. we begin from divergence and lack of trust because we have been fighting each other. in order to reach trust, which is crucial, we have to have verifiable arrangements based on verifiable mechanisms. the afghanis were not able to
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control themselves. now they say that they will accept, will be delighted if they shifted. but we need to have verifiable mechanisms. for this we need the right type of international and national and regional monitoring so we can be certain that commitments that are made on paper are actually delivered on the ground. >> mr. president, a pleasure to have you on. thank you, sir. >> thank you for the opportunity, and let me thank the american people for their long engagement and for their belief in the rights of women and children and the support they extended. in particular, let me thank the gold star family whose loved ones paid the ultimate sacrifice. i hope the two democracies and establish democracy and aspiring
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the united states has 12 to 13,000 troops in afghanistan today. the agreement for the taliban calls for the number to drop to 8,600 in 135 days and then to zero in 14 months. the question is, is this swift pullout a good idea or a bad one. let me bring in my guest, an army vet and military historian who is now the president of quincy institute, a think tank who creates diplomacy instead of
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war. the cover story for harpers on this subject. peter bergen has been to afghanistan a dozen times. he's cnn's national security analyst and author of new book, terrific new book, trump and his generals, the cost of chaos. let me start with you. in a sense, you do believe this is a defeat for the united states. you wrote to that effect. but you're saying good riddance to a bad war. >> it has been a bad war. i think it's been evident for quite some time that we need to liquidate the war. i'm trained as a historian so my inclination is to look to the past. if we say that the afghanistan war is now coming to a conclusion, it seems to me it's time to reflect on what has occurred. in that regard i think it's clear we've suffered a major defeat. the taliban's purpose, stated purpose, is to rid the country
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of foreign troops. our purpose has been to defeat the taliban. we haven't. to create effective taliban security forces. we haven't. to create a legitimate government in kabul. we haven't. curb the export of opium, we haven't. seems to me our record of failure is pretty clear and we ought to confront that. >> their objective will in 14 months have been achieved? >> if they behave, they are going to achieve their objective. >> peter, you've lived in afghanistan, you know the region well. if the taliban does eventually manage to take over the government, which is what they clearly want to do through political and perhaps military means, are you saying that prospect? >> i don't think they will take over the government. even without u.s. presence. right now they control 10% of the population.
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without u.s. presence and allied presence, the taliban is going to do better. you have a nasty civil war like in the '90s. i don't wish the taliban to emerge but you have a much stronger afghan army, stronger afghan police. they have a lot of problems. they will -- i'm not convinced they will behave. past behavior doesn't suggest they will magically turn into democrats and not really abuse the population. i was surprised by 14-month deadline. it's quick. if we're not there, nato won't be there. trump could lose the election. this is an agreement, not senate ratified treaty, agreement with nonstate actor. a new president if trump loses could come in and say i'm in the going to be bound by this. >> but andy, the vietnam analogy here does apply, it seems to me, which it's very hard to unwind. once you have decided to leave,
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once you have made that psychological decision, the country is exhausted, do you think if the taliban doesn't keep its commitments, the united states could rest or rachet up the number of troops? >> no. here is where the domestic political context comes into play. the president has said over and over again that he intends to end our endless wars. he's now on the cusp of ending at least one endless war. as he looks toward trying to get re-elected he's going to deliver on that. my guess is even if there's back sliding by taliban, he's going to be reluctant to go on tv and say oh, gosh, i've made a mistake signing the agreement and now i'm sending the 82nd airborne back in. this is not a peace agreement. it's a peace aspiration. i think that at least as far as
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trump administration is concerned, once we're in, we're in. >> do you think when people talk about rising influence of the taliban in afghanistan, whether or not they take over the government, they are clearly going to have more influence, will be bad for women, bad for human rights, aspirations and values they do have. >> 100%. 50% is female, 70% under the age of 30 and shia. that's a huge percent that don't want the taliban back and everything they stand for. we have conflated, particularly the president and others, this notion of endless wars really we should be talking about persistent presence. we're in south koreas was poorest now richest, twice as many troops as afghanistan. persistent presence is a better way of framing this. now one of the things i've heard about president trump is consistent inconsistency. he pulled the plugs on camp
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david talks with afghanistan. if soldiers are killed or don't behave or an attack in the west traceable to afghanistan or pakistan purchase let me ask you about the point peter makes, a point general petraeus makes, look, this is not a great war the u.s. is fighting. we have a small number of troops, 10,000 down from 100, 150,000 at its peak. these are counter-terror operation operations in support of security force. why to stabilize democratic legitimate government trying to create a decent society. it's not that expensive for the u.s. >> what's the argument against it? >> we've been trying to create a stable government for the last 18 plus years and it hasn't worked. what did we spend, a trillion dollars? some people say $2 trillion. the costs are substantial.
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the costs will continue. although i wouldn't say very many of the american people care about the afghanistan war, there's nobody celebrating in the streets because it ended. there's virtually no public support for continuing this enterprise. >> fascinating conversation. thank you both. next on "gps," the latest on the coronavirus outbreak. i will talk to the cabinet officer who dealt with the ebola outbreak in 2014. in here! cough if you'e shhhh. i took mucinex dm for my phlegmy cough. what about rob's dry cough? works on that too. and last 12 hours. 12 hours? who studies that long?! mucinex dm relieves wet and dry coughs for 12 hours with 2 medicines in 1 pill. kelly clarkson! what're you doing on our sofa? hey there! what're you doing on your sofa? try wayfair. you got this! woah. yeah! let me try! all alright, get it! blow it up!
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potential to become a global pandemic but it isn't there yet. let me show you stats. as of sunday morning almost 90,000 people have been infected around the world, almost 3,000 people have died, including the first death in the united states. if you're wondering how explosive the growth of coronavirus has been, take a look at comparison of four recent outbreaks starting at the time they were reported to w.h.o. swine flu and mers and ebola and coronavirus is in pink. let's pause here at almost nine weeks. that's where we are now. as you can see coronavirus are at the highest above swine flu at this point. when i saw the graphic again you'll see swine flu infections increase exponentially. they just take off. that's going forward a year.
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where will the coronavirus curve be in a year. that's anyone's guess but i'll bring on the experts to do that. cynthia was health and human services during ebola outbreak, she's now the president of american university. sanjay gupta is cnn's chief medical correspondent. sanjay, let me ask you to update us in terms of key dimensions people talk about. one is how fast this is how lethal is coronavirus. you mentioned in the press conference with president trump that it seems about 2% rate. do we have any news. >> the transmissibility seems similar to flu, which is what president trump was referring to initially drawing that comparison. one person possibly infects somewhere between two and three people. looks like it. that's the factor. in terms of lethality, it stays
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the same, right around 2%. i talked to dr. faumpi about this and said, look, is that the china number because that's where the numbers are coming from or the united states. he believes similar in the united states. about 2% fatality rate. >> 20 times as fatal as the flu. >> flu is .1% and that's 20 times as fatal. that's the big concern. >> we look at this. the u.s. has not had a mass outbreak. is it likely and what do we do to plan, prevent miss gate. >> the planning is where we should be focused right now. when we talk about the planning, it is the planning of federal government, state and local government governments health and institutions or universities like that which i work in. the planning right now needs to focus on making sure it's ready and we have tools and
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communication that could support them if this outbreak does grow. >> sanjay, this is what i saw and one media commentary said, we're going medieval, coronavirus, which the person meant basically they did in the middle ages, quarn teeantining people, sealing off places. the chinese have done this effectively. how come we can't do better than 600 years in some places. >> some of that, tried and true health measures they do work. the reason they persisted so many years is because they have been effective. i don't know we can do what they did in china in the country. that was pretty draconian with quarantines, largest in history taking place in china over the last few months. with regard to therapeutics and vaccines, which would be the more modern day equivalent to that, it just takes some time. you have to prove with these
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therapeutics they actually work, they are not going to do harm. people sometimes take a sense of false security in these things. i think those things are coming. you know, we're two months into this still, fareed. >> sylvia, when you look at what the trump administration has done to the agencies that generally fight this kind of problem, there's a whole list people have gone through that cuts for public health, cuss to the cdc, the firing of scientists. i think we have a graphic somewhere that outlines exactly how many of these cuts have taken place. my question to you is does it matter now that the administration does seem seized by this problem and you do have vice president pence in charge? can they recover? >> i think right now what's most important is we focus on being as prepared as we can be. sanjay was speaking to some of those things that need to be done. first of all, we need to make
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sure we have the diagnostics. those are the test. with something that can spread as quickly as coronavirus, making sure people have access to the test and public health community knows how and when to use those tests and can get results quickly so what we can do is know when a patient has it and trace the people that have been in touch with that patient so you're watching them as well. the next piece in terms of that preparedness as mentioned, making sure we can develop treatments. those are longer-term solutions as well as vaccines and making sure that system is as prepared as possible. do our health care workers have the tools they need, whether that's the protective gear they need to wear or the directions in terms of what they should be doing with patients how and when. this will be fought on the ground in cities across the country in terms of the public health system on the ground. making sure you have great guidance at the federal level based on that science, moving
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that information and ensuring that across the country the tools are ready. information flowing and tools ready for the public health system to use. >> don't go away, stay with us. when i come back we're going to ask experts what should you do about this outbreak other than wash your hands. that question when we come back.
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welcome back to dpps. sylvia burwell and dr. sanjay with us talking about coronavirus. sanjay, let me ask you, how should people think about going about their lives. wash your hands, don't touch faces. i've always thought gloves would be a better protection than face masks. but should people travel? there's so much of the world, so much travel takes place. so many goods and services, what do we do? >> there are travel advisories,
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people can find more definitive information about travel. it struck me when you were showing the graphic about h1n1, look at global travel, it's doubled during that time. ebola, common refrain was infection anywhere was infection everywhere. this idea things travel around the world is true. this tiny strand of rna doesn't respect boundaries or borders. in terms of daily life, one of the things people hear a lot is social distancing. what that means basically is trying to avoid people, especially people ill as much as possible. we're not really at that phase now. that is one of those tried and true public health measures again, the idea maybe people should work at home more often. kids may stay at school. look around your house if you had to stay at home for a period of time. food, supplies, medications, a few months of medications. those pragmatic things are
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things people can do any time. they are not did he signed to panic or alarm people. that is preparedness at individual level. yes, wash hands, avoid people. we touch our face more than people realize. >> shake hands. >> no, eastbound when i came up to you, we did ebola elbow bump. tiny drops that can spread. i do everything i can. it helps. that's not an euphemism, that helps an outbreak. >> sylvia, when you look at the point of slew of a more macro level, what people are wondering is will the olympics be held? japan canceled its football season, which i think 75 games of various times. you're the president of a big university. are you going to at some point have to consider canceling classes or convocations. what are you looking at to
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figure whether those decisions need to be made and made affirmatively? >> the decision about the olympics we faced when zika occurred because the olympics were in south america and that was the place where we had the highest concentration of those cases. with regard to events like olympics and things further out, what we need to do is start and think about the planning. this is one where more and more information we learn over the next weeks and months will be helpful to decision making. decisions decisionmakers will make together. u.s. supported brazil at the time we did that. with regard to the university, we're in it right now. we have students studying abroad at american university, 500 students studying abroad. we have already brought our students back from china, korea, and are in the middle of following cdc guidance when italy went up in terms of its warning. that's an important thing, we at a university follow that guidance in terms of when the
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levels. that's what i think institutions should do and individuals should do. the part we need to plan for is enrollment and thinking about foreign students. the third place for the university is thinking through what would happen here if we had an outbreak in the area of washington, d.c., where american university is located and how we would work through that. you can see they are different in time. one is right now and we are bringing students back following protocols that cdc has put forward. the other is thinking about medium term and the other is thinking about something that could be longer term or shorter term depending on the trajectory of the virus. sanjay, very quickly, if this gets bad, let's be honest, we can't possibly have the number of supplies that we need for something like this. >> i was doing quick math in preparation for the show. you start looking at the number, percentage of people who become critically ill, need more
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intensive care, breathing machines, things like that. say a million people contract the virus here, that means 14%, 15% would become more critically ill. 100, 150,000 people. ventilators, breathing machines, we have around 100,000. there's a certain percentage, two-thirds in use at any given time. how do we account for shortfall of ventilators at that point. what is surge capacity? bring equipment out of stockpiles? are we going to ask for other places. all these are now. china bought us time implementing the measures they did over there, a month, month and a half. that's important because hours matter, days matter. how are we going to prepare in that regard. dr. fauci think about this. public buildings could become places people are cared for, not hospitals. again, not to incite panic but
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that's part of being prepared at medical level, societal level. >> run fast, don't run scared. >> yes. >> thank you, both. that was very important. next on "gps" as president trump toured india next week, he praised it as a diverse, tolerant democracy and at that very moment mobs were attacking and killing muslims in that nation, in that city. what is going on? we'll explore when we come back. (burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a "gold medal grizzly." (sports announcer) what an unlikely field in this final heat. (burke) not exactly a skinny dipper, but we covered it. at farmers, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. so call 1-800 farmers to get a quote. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >> tech: don't wait for a chip like this to crack your whole windshield. with safelite's exclusive resin, you get a strong repair that you can trust.
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muslim. they have infected the nation with a very rare form of hindu nationalism. she wrote a book about the 2002 muslim massacre. ronna, you've covered many of these kinds of incidents. how bad is this one? >> well, fareed, i was around when the 1993 carnage took place, and i remember covering the carnage when a thousand muslims were killed. but nobody was really prepared for what wee're witnessing in nw delhi for the past two weeks, because it's the largest democracy. what we are seeing emerge fi eim new delhi is from india.
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muslim families are abandoning their homes with families in trucks. there are women who are molested with mobs entering their localities, chanti ingchanting, are mosques that have been torched, there are copies of the koran lying around, and all of this was happening at the same time trump was addressing the international media and telling the world that modi has got everything in control. i have never witnessed anything more traumatizing than what i've been witnessing right now as a journalist in india. >> what has the role of the police been in all of this? because a very serious scholar says if you look at the way the police were standing by or actually encouraging the mobs, he said by definition it was a state-sponsor state-sponsored problem >> absolutely. there have been many arguments
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if this should be called a program or a riot. it is a program for the reason that the mobs have been given a free lease to go in. the cops were not just bystanders but also complicit. in one picture there were four muslims lying in the street, bleeding in their clothes, and the cops were beating them and asking them to chant the national anthem. there were cops running along with the mobs and chanting themselves. they have been giving the most provocative speeches in the country. to think that he has not yet visited the site, in fact, he gave a speech two days ago why the rioting was happening, that we will build a grand new temple
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and motel, and prime minister modi, it took him three days to actually put out a statement on twitter and he has not acknowledged the carnage that took place in new delhi. to this day he has not expressed regret over the incident, and today while this is happening, the prime minister is just silent. >> let me ask you, ronana, quickly, what about hindu? hindus generally have had a kind of live and let live attitude. has the rhetoric of hindu nationalism changed that for the average hindu? >> unfortunately, the rhetoric of hindu nationalism is meeting with the common hindu. you see the hate crimes
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happening every day in parts of india. the kind of videos that are being created. just when i was coming here, there was a video chanting the most provocative slogans against muslims. just this month, they have stranded hindus by making muslim statements. they have openly asked minimusl to go to pakistan. they are saying muslims are taking away what rightfully belongs to them. >> rana, i'm so sorry to cut you off but we are literally out of time. thank you for all the work you're doing, thank you for your courage, and thank you for watching my program this week. i will see you next week. verizon 5g. we're building the most powerful 5g experience for america.
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it's more than 10 times faster than some other 5g networks. and it's rolling out in cities across the country. so people can experience speeds that ultra wideband can deliver. 1.7 gigs here in houston. 1.8 gigs here in frigid omaha. almost 2 gigs here in los angeles. that's outrageous. it's like an eight-lane highway compared to a two-land dirt road.
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i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine.
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hello, everyone, thank you so much for joining me this sunday. i'm fredricka whitfield. we begin this hour with growing concerns about the spread of the coronavirus here in the u.s. today the president announcing new screening procedures for people arriving from high-risk countries. this coming as health officials in the state of washington are investigating a possible outbreak at a long-term nursing facility. two people have tested positive, and more than 50 residents and staff are now being tested after showing symptoms. the state of washington also confirming the first patient to die after being infected with the virus in the u.s.
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