welcome to primetime. it's an important night. the threat to us is not coronavirus. it's how we handle it. the latest, the vp says there aren't enough tests. it's unacceptable. the president said he had it under control. he doesn't. and apparent lyft there is no cure for this president's viral lack of voraciity. we have something special for you tonight. a doctor who believes there could be a quicker way to identify the virus that you don't have to do it through the

test kits. he's brought the x-rays to show us what he discovered. what he is saying. let's get after it. all right. listen, you have to give the vice-president this much. he's applying a rare antiseptic to this administration. he's telling the truth. >> we don't have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate will be the demand going forward. >> not enough testing kits to meet the demand. in the richest country with weeks to prepare, no wonder we only know of 227 cases and the president, what does he say? it will all just go away. and if it doesn't, it's obama's fault. now, look, we know the kits are valuable. so much so they just air dropped some onto this cruise ship we're showing you now sitting off the coast of san francisco because some on board are showing symptoms. you have to know what you're dealing with so you can give people the symptomatic treatment

so we can see how many people get better and who needs more help. good news. we have someone who thinks they know another way to diagnose the virus without the testing kits. this is about medicine. this is not some mum bow jumbo, right? maybe it's quicker, maybe it isn't. the doctor's name is adam bern heim. he's been studying the spread -- hospital here in new york. google that, mount sinai and you'll see this place is no joke. he is a cardiothoracic  radiologist. doc, for the lay people, cardio, heart, thoracic, the lungs and the upper portion of the body and the interplay. this is your specialty. >> that's right, chris. thank you very much for having me tonight. i am a cardiothoracic radiologist. i dedicated my life to studying thousands of cases a year. i've been fortunate enough to be on a team at mount sinai where we have a partnership with multiple chinese colleagues.

we've gotten scans of patients who are positive for coronavirus. >> before you tell me what you're about to tell me, what is your level -- you're putting your name and reputation out there. what is your level of confidence in what you think that you and the team have discovered? >> we're confident about our findings. they are published in the peer reviewed literature. >> this is not a guess? >> it's not a guess. >> it's not something you've seen once and maybe it can be repeat in other scans? >> we systematically tabulated hundreds of scans from four different hospitals in china in different provinces and i think that we feel very confident our data does add some value to the role of ct scanning as sort of a complementary tool for diagnosis. >> ct scanning, cat scans. >> yes. >> you don't have to have a testing kit. why? what do you think you can see? >> sure, i want to take you on a brief introductory tour of the chest. one of the benefits of the ct scan it gives you a great a nat any of the chest. this is a patient from china, 44-year-old male who had fever and cough and shortness of

breath. i want to show you one slice through the i had middle of the chest. this lung is normal. and normal lung is black on a ct scan. it contains air which shows up as black on the scan. you just see a few white lines which are normal vessels. but when the lung becomes disease with ainu moan i can't which is what covid-19 is, all of a sudden that black lung instead of containing air contains other things like cells, pus and fluid. it becomes gray and white. that's the abnormality we are seeing. >> this is similar. can i circle these? >> please do. >> this is what you're talking about. you're looking at this? >> exactly. >> you're looking at this and the other ones they see here. this is pneumonia. how do you connect that to covid-19 or coronavirus? >> it's fascinating. when we first started looking at the cases we didn't know what to expect. we thought the pattern would look like other pneumonias we see like influenza and other pneumonias.

you might notice the shape of the spots of the lung are round. they're ranged around the edge of the lung. >> you can see these. let's go to pneumonia. >> this is the same image. these really blotchy gray and white spots arranged around the outer part of the lung that's not a typical pattern. >> round is not. what is is this supposed to be? >> this is a contrast, a patient from mount sinai who doesn't have coronavirus. this is a garden variety pneumonia. you see one focal spot which is white. this is a patient who has a more typical strep pneumonia pattern. one of the thingsing that' really -- >> how many scans, by the way? how many different chinese patients? >> we looked at hundreds, close to 500 scans. >> this is not two or three. >> this is not two or three. >> how many doctors are looking at this? >> we have two fellowship trained cardiothoracic radiologists and a support of team of researchers who are in our group. >> all right. the reason i'm asking those questions, because for me and the people watching, i don't know if you're right.

but -- >> sure. >> the level of vetting, how other doctors take what you say -- have you gotten push back? do you have people with your kinds of credentials who are saying, no, no, no, you're way early on this, you're way wrong, we don't think -- the peer reviewed study how many say no, you don't have it right? >> to the trained eye of a radiologist, we have a very systematic way of looking at the scans and the lungs. when data is published in a reputable journal, it's a way of educating our entire field. i don't think there's been any push back at all. one of our goals is to try to educate our colleagues throughout the country so that they will be able to recognize the -- >> you think you can get a ct scan of my chest and tell me whether or not i have it? >> after looking at hundreds of cases, there are -- the pattern has become so characteristic that there are many cases where i can tell you with a lot of confidence that this is coronavirus or not. >> now, the important question is this. it's okay if you think i have coronavirus and i don't because it's not like you have a treatment protocol anyway. the only problem would be if you

think i don't have coronavirus and i do. how big a risk is that with this method of analysis? >> that is a risk. one of the things that we found actually is within the first two days of symptom onset, half the ct scans were actually normal. it's valuable to know that because early in the time course of the illness ct scan does not rule out disease. that's important foredecision making in terms of taking patients offer isolation. >> this is with the test we heard. if you test me too soon -- i'm not showing what i need to show i guess in what do you call, the sputum or something like that? >> that's right. >> to find out. so this is no more variable than that or is it comparable? >> this is a powerful tool that's complementary. i think the test is of tremendous value, but you're right, there are also false negatives there and false positive tichl positives -- >> you say complementary. here's the urgency for me. we don't have enough tests. it's not worth it because that's where you are. is this something that you have tried to alert to authorities to incorporate and to let people do

these tests on people, we'll be catching more cases? >> ct scan is part of the diagnostic algorithm for the work up of patients especially anybody who displays a history of travel to an endemic region or they have moderate to severe respiratory systems. in practice ct scan is done all the time. the cases we pickup is the index of suspicion is facially low in light of the fact we now have community spread. >> that's good. >> yes. >> obviously it's all bad, we don't want to have this thing spreading. what i'm saying is this. they say we don't have enough tests. you're saying we don't need the tests. we'd rather have the tests and full set of protege kolsocols, idea we do nothing unless we have a test you say it's too conservative? >> i think we can learn a lot of information off the ct scan ruling in and ruling out. this is a patient in their mid 40s from china who had an initial ct scan that was completely normal. >> this is normal? >> yes.

i'm showing you a cut through the diaphragm and liver and part of the spleen here. this is a very bottom of the lungs here. and you'll see they're normal, they contain black, containing normal air and a few vessels, entirely normal negative scan. the same patient was imaged three days later. here we see for the first time one of these rounded gray spots on the edge of the lung. this is the typical feature of almost coronavirus. this is what it looks like early on. this is the early est manifestation of disease. it's helpful in terms of diagnosis a radiologist anywhere in the country can recognize and alert the team this might be a positive case. this is very atypical for other pneumonias. >> that's the important part. so if you saw this, what percentage confidence would you have that this is not normal pneumonia, this person we should quarantine? >> i'm completely confident this is not a typical pneumonia. my confidence in covid-19 is prevalence of disease and

suspicion. >> what does that mean? >> in the right patient who traveled to or lives in an area where there is disease and they have symptoms, then this is highly spesh highly suspicious. >> does the cdc know about this? >> they are aware. they are very much aware versed in the latest medical literature which is being updated all the time. this is a very fluid situation that's developing. we're all learning about this new disease for the first time. >> have you called them and say you should be letting people do this, don't worry if they don't have the tests? >> we have been in touch with the cdc about developing their protocols and algorithms and whether or not ct scan should be in the algorithm of patients. it's not that easy to screen large numbers of patients efficiently. >> expensive, too. >> right. so there are a lot of factors. >> but you think this is something that can be done that can tell you who has this with reasonable certainty without the test? >> correct. and ensuring prompt diagnosis is so important not just for the patient themselves to have them treated, but to have them isolated to prevent the spread of disease further.

>> we're going to call in to different people who are doing it, if they know about this, if they need information not -- i don't know why they would. i don't know why they'd need to tell me. but i don't know why we haven't heard about this. doctor, first of all, thank you for lester holting us know. it is an hopeless. there are ways they can deal with this. why aren't they dealing with it that way. is it about money, is it about access, is it about poor administration? that we'll get on. doctor, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> all right. look, that's the job. information is the power here. how we handle it is the threat, not coronavirus. that will make it proof. elizabeth warren didn't make it through. she's out of the race, but she didn't endorse. why not? the wizard of odds and the professor say the answer is in the numbers. next. as parents of six, this network is one less thing i have to worry about. (vo) why the aceves family chose verizon. we all use our phones very differently. these two are always gaming and this one is always on facetime. and my oldest is learning to be a pilot. we need a reliable network because i need to know he's safe. as soon as he lands, he knows he better call mama. mama!

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to get behind the wheel of the chevy silverado. now, get 0% financing for 72 months plus $500 dollars cash allowance on all silverado 1500 crew cab pickups. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. the facts, elizabeth warren is out. no endorsement. why? where are her supporters likely to go? the questions and answers are linked. who says? two of the best brains in the business. the wizard of odds and the professor, ron brownstein here. gentlemen, thank you very much. i don't buy it. let's say my contention is she didn't endorse because she's trying to figure out what's best for her. what do we see in the numbers that explains her indecision? ron first. >> i think the big question is whether you believe her support is ideological or sociological. the assumption has been she has a liberal base of support and therefore if she got out of the race, most of the it would go to bernie sanders. but the fact is i believe her support was more sociological.

by the end she was essentially a candidate of college educated white voters almost entire, especially college educated white women who were drawn to her more because she was brainy, she was in command, she was fluent on issues, and those are voters that sanders had struggled with. there are only two states i looked at on super tuesday where he reached 25% among college educated white women. so i think the -- certainly the sanders campaign today believes that if she leaves the race -- if she -- now that she's out of the race they'll get most of her suppo supporters. i don't think you can guarantee that because they are suburban white women who have not been warm to sanders. two of the best examples, elissa and haley am michigan both endorsed joe biden. i think be it's more of a fraction. >> i agree with ron. we saw that in the exit polls coming out of super tuesday. he actually does very well among very liberal voters, but she does well among white college educated women. but we also see it in the actual polling. this is important. it was an ipsos reuters poll

after she got out super tuesday it showed essentially their voters split. biden had a 10-point lead when warren was included. when she split it was biden. >> so she doesn't endorse. >> why endorse? >> she keeps power going into the convention. >> last time she did not weigh in right away. look, she's going to have influence no matter who is the nominee. and at this point i think if she endorses biden, which would make most sense from i think her point of view, in terms of maximizing her personal leverage, she is going to alienate a lot of her supporters, that part of the base that likes bernie sanders. if she endorses sanders -- she's endorsing sanders now, if he loses michigan, not a very viable candidate. >> let's look at the numbers. make your point obviously, but very liberals, sanders 50% say

that. warren 20%, almost the same as biden, 18. that's the point you guys are making which is even though she echo echoed bernie's positions doesn't mean they feel the same way. so 32, 25, 20. now, where her voters go, harry, how much does it matter? >> i'll say this much. by the end she wasn't getting that large a percentage of the vote, right. they basically all have to go to sanders based upon the latest numbers that i see for sanders to catch up to biden nationally speaking. but i would argue that it's not just sort of -- i would argue the endorsement is important because it tells us something about the process going forward. biden's been getting all these endorsements recently and it seems to me he's building momentum. we saw it in the super tuesday results, we see it in the endorsements afterwards. if bernie sanders is able to get the endorsement, maybe bernie is saying we're not going to get the coronation here and that extends the primary process. >> i'll tell you when it becomes a problem for her. if michigan is everything next

tuesday. if whoever wins and loses feels the difference in what happens with her she's in a pinch. i'm out of time on this unless this is something we have to know, ron. if we have to know, tell us. >> she's not the solution to his problem, bernie. if he has a second act it's through blue collar whites where he ran well last name. that's where he'll find a path forward in michigan, ohio and missouri. she can't help with that. >> we'll be watching michigan. i think be it matters more than any state we've seen so far. gentlemen, thank you very much. bernie or biden, who is stronger? that's the way we think about it, right? let's look at it another way. who has the worst weaknesses, why? what do you think is going to happen in this general election? you think it's going to be a battle of policy plans? it's going to be eye blood fest. let's bring in a supporter from each side, bernie and biden and test them on their toughest problems. you decide who can deal with weaknesses best. next. at bayer, we create medicine that treats

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let's start with this general understanding. whomever the democrats choose ain't gonna be in a policy debate with president trump. it's going to be about the ugly. you're not hearing much about it these days for both joe biden or bernie sanders. i argue the media does these campaigns no favors by not picking at the problems because it's coming in the general. why make it seem like it's new? when it happens then? when you know it now. how you handle the hits can often be the key to victory. let's see how their supporters deal with the heat. nina turner, obviously a bernie sanders campaign, welcome. good to see you. hillary rosen, cnn contributor,

good to have you as well. i am assuming that you are taking the biden side of the debate because? >> i am. i'm endorsing joe biden today. it's new for me. i've been neutral in this primary, but, you know, i've been holding out hope for a woman president since 2008. that's not happening. but i'm really comfortable with joe biden. i trust him. i've known him for many years. i think he will be a great president and i'm totally happy to endorse him today. >> thank you for announcing on this show. it is good to have it be transparent. i'm going to put up the lists of problems for both of your people, and we will go point for point. i do not care what either of you has to say about the other campaign. justify your own. that's what tonight is about. hillary, i'll start with you. first point on biden, past prime, nice guy. as meghan mccain said on the view, maybe he is the grief whisperer. he was certainly great to my family when my pop passed, but he's not who he was. we don't see it in the energy,

and people lack confidence because of that. how do you respond? >> look, i think we are now facing a prospect where one of, you know, 70-plus-year-old man is going to be the next president of the united states. i think that they're all pretty comparable in that regard. i'm confident that vice-president biden has bigger. he's shown it on the campaign trail. i think that he is, you know, going to be a solid and stable choice. i'm not worried about that. >> the moments where he seems to not remember to be on message, where he seems to not be able to say things the right way? >> you know, look, he himself talks about that his old stuttering gets in his way, that he, you know, has a lot of legislative issues that have come up in his campaign and career over the years. every one of them isn't perfect. the thing about joe biden, though, when he gaffs, because we all know he does. >> yep. >> you never believe he's lying.

you just believe that he's moving -- >> we'll get to that. we'll get one problem at a time. he makes mistakes, but we'll get to it in a second arguably. nina turner, your problem, your man say socialist. he calls himself a socialist. doesn't matter if you put democrat in front of it. it scares people in the country. he refuses to back away from it. and he will be beaten about the head and face with it by the president every day. >> well, it shouldn't scare people. i mean, it's very much in the tradition of president f.d.r. that is the kind of democratic socialism that he's talking about, even though f.d.r. didn't necessarily call it that. >> that's the difference. >> bernie sanders talks about -- chris, it's in the same spirit. it's in the spirit of the reverend dr. martin luther king, jr., who in his letter to the birmingham jail, us being the black community, about white moderates. you know that f.d.r., the 1944 economic bill of rights, what do the american people have a right to, a decent job. decent housing.

being able to take care of people when they have -- when they're unemployed or old age. disabilities. these are the things that f.d.r. put forward and the elites or the corporate demes of his day came after him to say he welcomed their hatred. senator bernie sanders is adding to that the green new deal, medicare for all. >> that's the key you have to deal with, nina, he is adding to it. the way it will be used is we have never seen spending like this since the new deal. his attempts to pay for it are incomplete, at best. they scare people, nina, that he is going to change their economic reality for the worst. in the tens of trillions. >> give me a break. i mean, we don't talk enough about corporate welfare, you know, in this country. we don't talk about how we pay for cuts and subsidies to the wealthiest people, the wealthiest companies in this country. but yet when it comes to putting a down payment on main street,

folks want to raise that issue. chris, people are suffering in this country. senator bernie sanders is asking them to imagine, to dream a bigger dream. plus since we are a wealthy nation, we're not a poor nation, president trump gave a $1.6 trillion tax cut to the wealthiest people in this country. that same tax cut could have been used to pay for cancelling student debt which senator sanders is pushing forward, too. we have the money. we just need to find the will and intestinal fortitude. >> and explain to people it won't be on their back because that is the fear. >> that's really the keys isn't it? >> those cuts are on their backs. >> but they think they got a tax cut from trump and they think you're going to take it back and then some. that's the challenge. that's the challenge. now back to you -- i hear you. but i'm saying that's what you have to deal with. hillary, on your side what you have to deal with is decades of controversial votes that look bad. and that go along with stories of commitment to social justice and moments in his past that may

not be accurate. and each one will be pointed out by the president. you did the crime bill. obama was thinking about it when he was like 11 or whatever the president said today that obama was thinking about the crime bill, too. i know it's b.s., but it's how biden deals with it. you said you were arrested when you were with mandela. i don't think so. you say that you were trained to be a protester and suffered. we don't think so. how do you deal with the record of votes and of stories that don't hold up? >> you know, nina referenced dr. martin luther king before saying that he said from the birmingham jail that we should be concerned about white moderates. that's actually not what martin luther king said. what he said is -- >> he did say that. >> the silence -- >> are you kidding me? >> she's making a language point, nina. >> what he said was we should worry about the silence of white moderates. what we have in joe biden is a man who is not silent. he has a long record, and many

votes that in today's world feel that the wrong thing were the wrong thing, and he has discussed that over and over again. as bernie sanders did on the gun votes and other things. so we can be talking about votes from 20 years ago or we can be talking about people's values and who they trust. that's what joe biden is going to be talking about. >> last quick point to you, nina. >> chris, what reverend dr. martin luther king, jr., was talking about, he said it is the point that the white moderate wants things to be comfortable and instead of focusing in on the bigger threat, is not necessarily the white kkk member, but more the white moderate that is more comfortable with keeping things -- >> don't use martin luther king against joe biden. you don't have that -- you don't have that standing. i'm sorry. you don't. >> don't tell me what kind of standing i have as a black woman in america. how dare you.

>> i didn't attack anybody. you're taking it that way. listen, don't dip into what i have to say about the reverend dr. martin lugtser king, jr. how dare you a white woman sit there and try to tell me what -- >> nina, hillary, i'm out of time on this. but -- >> chris, i didn't jump in on her, though. she wants to jump in on me. >> nobody is jumping in on anybody. you guys are in the same party. this is what you guys have to figure out. you're in the same party. and let me tell you, you better keep that same energy when you're up against trump that you have against each other because he is bigger and badder than i think you guys are ready for. but let's agree about this on dr. king. only light can drive out darkness. only love can drive out hate. that is the challenge for the democrats. >> amen to that. >> to show that you represent against this president. i wish you both good luck going forward. you are always welcome here to make the case to my audience.

nina turner, be well. >> thank you. >> hillary rosen, thank you for the announcement. be well. >> thank you. >> listen, i mean what i say. and you're looking at the state of play. so you figure out what it means to you. now, on the other side of the ball, the president is playing his game already on you. chuck schumer taking him on. he's got, he's got to go down for what he did. if we did something like that -- and it's working. there is a sickness spreading in our political climate. you know who sees it? someone who looks to history. someone who understands its context today. dan abrams, okay. he just wrote the book on respect, civility and the rule of law through one of the most famous things you've never heard of. next. when it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be.

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discussion. brother, congratulations. >> good to see you. >> first, william barr, a federal judge today says there are questions about the candor of the attorney general and how he dealt with the mueller report redactions. how big a deal is that for a judge to say? >> it's a really big deal because it's exactly the issue in this case. the question is were the redactions proper. and in essence, the judge is saying, i don't know that we can trust the attorney general, who made the redactions, and that's a big statement. i mean, and he's doing it by saying that the attorney general's characterization of the mueller report was, let's just say lacked candor, that it didn't reflect what the mueller report actually said. so that's quite a rebuke. >> especially in a case that's about what information gets to the american people. and this is the judge am's commentary on how it might have been processed. >> he's being clear saying, i don't trust you. and as a result --

>> now let's flip it. chuck schumer, someone we know well. senate minority leader. you will face the whirlwind, gorsuch, and you other justices if you don't give us the decision we want in this case. i didn't mean it. i'm from brooklyn. he apologizes for what he said. >> sure, he apologizes. yeah. >> i don't like the brooklyn part. you said it because you thought it would work for you now it's not working for you so you apologize. what does it represent? >> first of all, it was a huge mistake. he should be criticized, he should be condemned for it. this is exactly what we shouldn't be doing. also the disrespect with which he treated the justices. he didn't refer to them by their formal name. gorsuch, kavanaugh. >> by their last names as if -- the bottom line is there should be respect for the justices of the supreme court. >> you don't have to like the decision. you don't have to respect the decision in terms of the merits. you must respect the e enforcement. >> criticize the ruling,

criticize the reasoning. all fair game. that's very different than making it personal to the justices. he initially claimed, well, obviously that's not what i meant. that's sure what it sounded what he was saying. >> didn't apologize. didn't say i was wrong. he said i didn't use the right words, didn't come through. he gave a political answer. now talk about playing politics with the same thing, the president comes out, if a republican did this, they'd be in jail. he does it all the time. he did it to two justices by name the week before. what's that play? >> i think it's different for him to say justices should recuse themselves. i don't think that's comparable to what schumer did. i think what schumer did is worse. but i think what the president has done about other judges is worse than what schumer did. >> that's an obama judge. >> or it's a mexican judge. >> mexican judge. >> those are the things that are even worse. we have to provide context here. the point is all of these attacks on judges, the personal attacks, not on the ruling, not on the reasoning, undermine our

faith in the rule of law. it's why justice roberts last time came out and said we don't have obama judges. i'm glad he did it. chuck schumer deserved a spanking and he got one from justice roberts. >> democrats will say what are you talking about? trump does it all the time. nobody spanks him. roberts doesn't get on the floor and say it about him. we don't have obama judges. >> it is fair to say it's not equal, right. i'm not saying we always got to say one side and the other side. the bottom line is very often -- and i think the number of times president trump has done it, amy berman jackson and judge after judge. >> the flores settlement. he thought flores was the judge. he said it's some mexican judge doing the flores settlement. flores was the name of the plaintiff, it was the person involved. >> we can make quantitative and qualitative judgments about what's worse. that doesn't mean chuck schumer gets off the hook. that happened today. as a result we're going to talk about it today. when trump said those things about the judges, i was all over

him at the time. and he's had more incidents than schumer's had. but here we are today. >> got to call them all out otherwise it doesn't stop. obviously you see it from schumer because people think it may work. >> people like us have to fight for the rule of law. >> 100%, that's why you wrote the book. let me tell you something. i don't sell books on the show. you know that. dan is a friend of mine, but i wouldn't do it if i didn't believe in the book. today is the 250th anniversary, okay, of the boston massacre. john adams, okay. young lawyer at the time, this book takes the transcript, 217 pages. >> yep. >> and goes through it with his coauthor. john adams takes the case of british soldiers shooting american colonists. they wanted to shoot them, tear them up, send a message to england. he is in a position like we are, prerevolution. adams said the revolution might have started that day if we didn't stand up for the rule of law. how meaningful today? >> oh, absolutely.

it was the faith in the legal system that prevented the revolution from happening six years earlier. think about it. five colonists shot cold blood by british soldiers. and they're tried and people wait and calm down and wait for the trial and follow the trial. and read the transcript. and say, okay, you know, we may not agree with this, but as the governor at the time of massachusetts said, we will live and die by the law. and people accepted that, and that's why it's so important today to not be undermining our judges. and not be getting personal with them. it's exactly, i think, what john adams would be saying today. and his defense of these british soldiers was terribly unpopular. this is a guy that got rocks throne through his window. he lost half his law business because he's representing the enemy. >> he didn't politicize the case. a lot of lawyers try to make it about something bigger. trump does that all the time. it's the deep state, they're out

to get me, it's corrupt. he stuck to the facts because he didn't want to raise the kind of passions and invective that would cloud the law. >> he wouldn't do it. he wouldn't be go after the citizens of boston. even though the argument was the british soldiers were acting in self-defense, these people came at them. adams was very careful not to attack them, but to simply talk about the perspective of the soldiers who were there getting rocks throne at them. >> the president today obviously john adams would go on to be president, but you have a president today and a lot of people around him, even with what we saw schumer has to get stink on him doing the opposite of what adams did. it's a risk. >> a huge risk. i come back to we have to be able to have faith in our judges. i know there are people out there who want to say oh, we should expand the supreme court. i don't trust these nine justices. as a result we should get more. i don't think that's the answer. the answer should be, look, we have a system in place. you want a new president to appoint justices, vote for a new president. in the meantime, we've got

judges who need to be respected. no matter who a pointed them. i hate it when there's references to this is a trump judge, this is an obama judge. they should be treated as judges. their rulings matter. and we have to have the same kind of faith that john adams had in our legal system as -- today as he did then. >> dan abrams, you know. david fischer his coauthor. john adams under fire. the title is like the longest part of the whole book. founding fathers fight for justice in the boston massacre murder trial. it is a referendum on what matters today. bravo. this is a public service. i hope it kills it. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> this one is inscribed. we did the radio show today, it was a huge thing. i love you, congratulations on all the success. >> thank you. >> all right. now, coronavirus. what's the risk? the risk is not being told the truth. it's not about fewer cases it's about knowing what's going on. it matters with this more than what we're dealing with with

politics. if you can't trust what you get from the president and the people around him, that's more of a virus spreading than anything else. time for truth next. i had a heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen, and i just didn't listen. until i almost lost my life. my doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. listen to the doctor. take it seriously.

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listen, coronavirus may get bad, but if we don't trust how it's being handled and if we don't trust what we're being told, it will be much worse. what do we know right now? hundreds of americans have coronavirus. a dozen people have died in this country. it's a shame. by comparison, it is nothing. in this moment we should be able to trust but verify, trust but verify. why? because we know the cases are underestimated. why? because they're not testing. the bigger problem is this. you cannot rely on what this president tells you. that's not me saying it.

it's what you get from what comes out of his mouth. exhibit a. >> i think the 3.4% is a false number. now, this is just my hunch. >> listen, scientists believe it's probably too low, too, but he uses his hunch to tell you -- people think that it's too high. 3.4 is too high. they think it's going to be less than half of that. why? we're only hearing about the worst cases. when you test more there will be more case ands positive outcomes. that's why you need the truth. but his hunch also tells him this toxic talk works for him. if he says it won't be a big deal it won't be a big deal. that's not the truth. instead of trusting information from doctors and scientists he wants you to trust his hunch. the truth is he knows nothing to an expert degree, let alone this. he claims why. exhibit b. >> we're down to, we're really down to probably ten. most of the people are outside of danger right now.

>> he doesn't know what he's talking about. look, you don't want to increase panic, but you don't do it by lying about the reality in a situation that is a pandemic that is just beginning. nobody is going to buy that. his hunch is that artificial case numbers and false suggestions that it's nothing are better for him. but what about us? he should have prepared. he should have been straight with us. he should have done things more quickly. he made cuts that looked good then, and they're a problem now. they slow walked testing. that's the fact. it's also the past. going forward, what do we need? no more excuses from him like this. >> the obama administration made a decision on testing that turned out to be very detrimental to what we're doing. >> it's just not true. i don't even know what he's talking about. let's give him the best read. there was a rule in 2004 that added some red tape to lab testing.

is that what he's talking about? maybe. it was five years before obama took office. he did the same thing today with the crime bill. some people say obama liked it. it was 1994 at the time that it happened. this is what he does. give you a boogie man. blame somebody else. he's the victim, but we're getting sick. listen to him last night, railing on this controversial night. >> this was a biden/obama law. i guess biden was the senator then and pushing it hard. obama was -- somebody said he was talking about it but he had to be pretty young if that were the case. >> somebody said. the same person who told you about everybody dancing on the roofs on 9/11. this isn't something to play with, man. coronavirus needs the could be if i dense of the american people that you're taking care of them, not yourself. i'm not worried about the virus. we don't have that science telling us that. i'm worried about how you make people feel about it. go after biden.

he's going to have to defend his own record. primary contenders said the same thing. obama, 1994 was a few years out of law school. he was teaching constitutional law in illinois. he had something to do with it? he hadn't even run for office yet. it's a lie. more proof. senator schumer. look, you heard us go after him on the show tonight, rightly so, all right. they will pay the price the whirlwind for their decisions. trump then said this. >> it was a terrible thing he said. i was, i was amazed by it and if that were a republican, you would see really bad things happening. it's very, very unequal justice and it's a disgrace that he was able to say something like that. >> wrong. you would see me talking about it and you would hear mcconnell say nothing. unlike today when you basically gave him another set of walking orders. what schumer said was wrong. you have to respect justice. this president never respects

the administration of justice unless it's on his side. the truth matters more in this situation than ever before. okay. you have to demand it. do not excuse what trump does as just more of his mouth. i wish heed stay off twitter. not with coronavirus. demand the truth. expose what isn't true and let him know you hear it all. all right. when we come back, got a bolo for you you're going to want to hear. 100 years ago, our grandmothers did not have an equal right to vote. we do. find their stories. make them count. at ancestry. i believe at tecovas,hould focus othat's hand-crafted, high-quality western boots at a fair price. because netsuite shows me all my financials in one place, we stay focused on what we do best. (announcer) with netsuite by oracle, you get a full picture of your business.

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bolo, be on the look out. disinformation online. not just russian bots, the president's own reelection campaign. take a look. posts like this all over facebook this week directing users to take the official 2020 census. it's b.s. you click on it and it redirects you to trump's fund-raising site and asks you for personal information. civil rights groups are worried. it could interfere with the actual census which begins next week. the president not a fan about the census. wants certain questions asked

certain ways, remember? facebook says it's going to remove them. see how that goes. we could see cyber tactics like this again and again. be on the look out, my brothers and sisters. all right, thank you for watching me. up next we've got anderson cooper and dr. sanjay gupta. they have such an important town hall for us all. "coronavirus facts and fears." please tune in right now. hello and welcome to the cnn global town hall. i'm anderson cooper. >> and i'm dr. sanjay gupta. thanks for joining us at home and everyone in the studio tonight. >> we're here tonight because we believe the best way to fight fear is with facts, not hype, not hope, not hunches, facts. there is right now a lot we know about this virus and a lot we