hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. thank you so much for joining me once again. today it seems the country has a choice. lean in and follow the strictest stay-at-home guidelines or don't. a choice maybe not easy and maybe not simple, but the top experts in the country say it's the single choice that is going to decide how bad this really gets. or put it another way. how soon the country starts getting better. 40 states have some sort of statewide stay-at-home orders, leaving ten states that still don't, leaving dr. anthony fauci dumbfounded. >> if you look at what's going on in this country, i just don't understand why we're not doing that. >> here's how ambassador birx put it from the white house

podium. >> we're only as strong as every community, every county, every state, every american following the guidelines to a t, and i can tell by the curve, and as it is today that not every american is following it. >> but is it more than that now? governors saying they don't understand why, if this is so crucial, such a crucial question, such a crucial choice, why the president and his team hasn't ordered this on a national scale. >> i'm honestly upset about the lack of early action on a national basis. this will go down in history as a profound failure of our national government. >> today the white house is expected to issue new guidelines about whether people should wear face coverings when they go

outside. in new york, which remains the epicenter of the national outbreak, governor andrew cuomo, he warns time is running out to find critical supplies, including, of course, ventilators. and we are waiting for governor cuomo. he could be speaking any moment now with his daily briefing updates to come. when he begins, we'll bring that to you. let's start in new york. brynn gingras is standing by. brynn, officials are calling this a critical weekend. what are you hearing about these supply shortages? >> reporter: yeah, it's really not about preparing anymore, right, kate? this is what dr. anthony fauci said. the time is now, that there needs to be some action on everybody's part. when it comes to the shortages, the governor has said the state stockpile of ventilators, just speaking about ventilators, will run out in six days. basically because the number of people coming in needing to be intubated is at a point where it can't sustain the number of ventilators we have.

it's even a worse predicament in the city. the mayor said that d-day is sunday, and monday and tuesday he doesn't know how to get more ventilators here to the city. it's a critical, critical time. i want you to hear more from the mayor when he spoke on "new day." >> there is no plan. there's no order that's been given by the commander in chief. the nation is in a peacetime stance while we're actually in the middle of a war, and if they don't do something different in the next few days, they're going to lose the window. if there is not action by the president and the military literally in a matter of days to put in motion this vast mobilization, then you're going to see first hundreds, and later thousands, of americans die who did not need to die. >> reporter: life or death situation. not just the ventilators -- >> brynn, i'm going to jump in. we're jumping over to albany, governor andrew cuomo beginning his update. >> this seal of the state of new

york, the legislature passed the modification to the seal. you see in the middle of the seal, two words, e xl -- exc er excelsior, and we added e plurubus unum, out of any one. out of any one. it was our founding fathers' belief for this nation. adams spoke to it, madison spoke to it, jefferson spoke to it. although they had a lot of different opinions while they were doing the constitution, the one thing they agreed with was e plurubis unum out of anyone. it was good advice then, it's even better advice today.

the curve continues to go up. the number of tests has reached a new high. we did over 21,000 tests. thank you to our great health department. we have over 10,000 new cases. 102,000 total tested positive, 14,000 hospitalized, 3,700 icu patients, 8,800 patients discharged. that's good news. the number of deaths, highest single increase in the number of deaths since we started. 2,300 to 2,900 deaths. you see the totality for new york state, 102,000. new jersey, california. remember when this started, new

york had airports that were designated entry zones. this is an international destination, international hub. we have people coming from across the world sooner and at a higher rate than anyone else. total hospitalization, 1,400. that's also a new high. daily icu admissions is down a little bit, but you had more deaths, you have more people coming into hospitals than any other time, also people going out which is the ebb and flow coming in and out of the hospital system. the hot spots we now track on a nightly basis how many people go into what facility, so we can track the increase of what's

happening. certain communities, frankly, more in new york city than other communities. but you also see an increase on long island, which is something we're concerned about. long island does not have as elaborate a health care system as new york city. we don't have as many resources on long island and we see an increasing number of cases on long island, and that has us very concerned. supplies. ppe is in short supply as they are, of course, across the country. we need companies to make the materials. it is unbelievable to me that in new york state, in the united states of america, we can't make these materials and that we are all shopping china to try to get these materials, and we're all competing against each other. these are not complex materials.

we will work with new york manufacturers, we'll finance the transition necessary to make these materials. we talk about them as if they're very complicated. this is an n95 mask. this is it. it was 70 cents before this started. it's now as high as $7. but this is all that an n95 mask is. it's fabric, it's material. the fda has the if he is fixes and then it's two pieces of elastic cord. it can't be that we can't make these. this is a gown. we call them gowns. this is a gown. it's -- there's nothing sophisticated about the manufacturing of this garment.

there's sophisticated about the material. it can't be that companies in this country and in this state can't transition to make those supplies quickly. again, i understand if there is a financial burden. we will address that, and we will work with you. so please contact us. javits is going to be converted to a covid facility. the original plan was to use javits -- javits is the state convention center. it was retrofitted by the army corps of engineers to hold 125 people. the original plan is it would not take covid-positive patients, it would take non-covid patients, and it would be an overflow for hospitals. as it turned out, we don't have non-covid people to any great extent in the hospitals. hospitals have now turned into, effectively, icu hospitals for

covid patients. so we wanted to convert javits from non-covid to covid. the -- it's federally run. frankly, the federal agencies were not eager to do that. fema was not eager to do that. i called the president. i spoke to him about it yesterday morning. that afternoon, yesterday afternoon, the president called me back, said he spoke to the task force. they would grant the request to transition the javits center to covid only. that adds 2,500 beds. so that is a very big deal. and i thank the president for doing it. he did it despite the fact that the federal agencies were not eager to do it, and he did it quickly. so i thank him for that. it's a big deal for us. we're still challenging -- we still have the challenge of

ventilators. we don't have enough, period. the situation is very simple now. people come in. they're almost all covid people. ironically, the number of non-covid cases has dropped because so many things are shut down that you don't have the same number of automobile accidents or people getting hit by cars. you don't have the same crime rate. so you don't have the same number of trauma cases coming into a hospital. they are covid cases, and many of them go right to the icu. in the icu, you need a ventilator. if you don't have a ventilator, the process stops. and we don't have enough ventilators. we're doing everything possible, splitting of ventilators, using

bi-pap machines, using what we can from the federal stockpile, but in truth, i don't think the federal stockpile has enough to help all the states. because you can't buy the material at this point. we're still trying to buy from china. we're working with ali baba, which has been very helpful to us. i spoke to jack maw and mike evans, who is the president, and they have been very gracious trying to get us source material from china. but we're going to have to redeploy ventilators from across the system. in other words, there are hospitals that have ventilators, there are hospitals that have ppe equipment, there are private sector companies that have ppe equipment that they are not using that we're going to need

to redeploy to the places in the hospitals where we need them. i had a conversation with a hospital administrator yesterday. i understand they don't want to give up their ventilators. ventilators are expensive pieces of equipment. i understand that even if they're not using them, they are reluctant to see them go out the door. the theory is if they -- if the government gets them, they'll never get them back. i understand that. but i don't have an option, and i'm not going to get into a situation where we know we are running out of ventilators and we've got people dying because there are no ventilators, but there are hospitals in other parts of the state that have ventilators that they're not

using. i'm just not going to allow us to go there. i think it would be wholly irresponsible. i'm going to sign an executive order that says the state can take ventilators and ppe from institutions that don't need them now and redeploy them to other parts of the state and other hospitals that do need them. those institutions will either get their ventilator back or they will be reimbursed and paid for their ventilator so they can buy a new ventilator. i can't do anything more than that. but i'm not going to be in a position where people are dying and we have several hundred ventilators in our own state somewhere else. i apologize for the hardship to those institutions. ultimately there is no hardship. if you don't get the ventilator back, i give you my personal

word, i will pay you for the ventilator. but i'm not going to let people die because we didn't redistribute ventilators. the national guard are going to be deployed to pick up these ventilators which are all across the state and deploy them to places where we need them. state budget passed last night 3:00 a.m., as you know. the state budget was extraordinary. first it passed a lot of major policy initiatives that we should all be very proud of, the nation's first domestic terrorism law, it improved bail reform, it addressed this child vaping scourge that is going across this nation. we banned fentanyl, banned against repeat subway sex offenders, campaign finance reform, paid sick leave, middle class tax cut, a very aggressive airport construction program,

and accessible renewable energy siting. i understand we're all consumed with the coronavirus situation, but you have to be able to walk and chew gum. we have to move forward at the same time, and that's why passing the budget and these pieces of legislation were so important, because these issues are still important. and child vaping, et cetera, surrogacy, these are major issues for people. they passed last night and congratulations. the budget was difficult because the state has no money. and how do you do a budget when you can't really forecast revenues, and we came up with a somewhat novel budget that actually is calibrated to future revenues or losses. so we really start with an assumption, and then what we're saying is when we see how much

revenue the state makes, how fast the economy comes back, what the expenses are, we'll calibrate accordingly. we are heavily reliant on the federal aid legislation that gets passed. the federal government has passed a couple pieces of legislation. they're planning to pass another piece of legislation. it's very important that whatever legislation they pass helps state and local governments. when you deprive a state government, all you are actually achieving is that that state government has to turn around and not fund the programs that were dependent on that state government. we fund education, we fund health care. i spoke to speaker pelosi today. she's working on the program for the next piece of legislation. she understands fully the need of state governments. she understands fully the need of local governments.

she understands my position on how new york was shortchanged in the past bill. and she said she's going to do everything she can do to help new york. i've worked with the speaker many times. i've known her for 30 years, and i believe her, and her credibility and her competence is unparalleled, in my opinion. so i'll be working with the speaker and the rest of the congressional delegation going forward. but we need federal assistance. depending on how much federal assistance we get will be that calibration of the budget going forward. coronavirus response in general. there's a lot of conversations about how we should respond to this governmentally or from an intergovernmental perspective. people want to say, well, this is a state's rights question versus federal interference.

who should decide what's done on a state level? there is no governor who is arguing that they're state's rights are being trampled, right? it's not a state's rights issue. no one is standing up saying the federal government is trampling my rights. i've said that on other occasions, but no governor, democrat or republican, is saying that here. every state is saying the same thing. i need help, i need assistance. so i don't consider this a situation where the federal government is interfering with the state's rights. this is a situation that is a, by definition, a national disaster emergency situation where the states need and welcome the federal assistance. i've done -- i was in the federal government, as you know.

i worked on scores of federal emergencies. the only operational model that i see that could potentially work here at this stage where we are today with the realities we're facing, where no state can get the supplies they need. no state can get the ppe they need, no state can get the ventilators they need. the market has literally collapsed. the only operational model that i see is you have curves -- we've been talking about our curve -- you have curves in different parts of the country. and those curves occur at different times. it depends on when the outbreak started in that region, how quickly it spread, so you have different curves in different parts of the country occurring at different times. i think the only practical

solution at this point is focus on the emergency that is in front of you. focus on the emergency at the place and time that is in front of you. and then redeploy to the next situation. so new york is the tip of the spear, so to speak. we have the high numbers, we have the first major encounter. deploy resources so new york. we'll hit that curve, we'll be at the top of the curve. 17 days, 21 days we're on the other side of the curve and we're coming down. then i don't need the ventilators that we've amassed and split and the bi-pap machines. we can redeploy what we have, personnel equipment, to whatever locality is next.

now, it's not a perfect sequential timing, but if you look at the projected curves, when it's going to hit michigan, when it's going to hit illinois, when it's going to hit florida, you'll see that there is a timing sequence to it. why not, or what is the alternative to now saying, let's help each other. let's focus on each situation as it develops, and let's move our resources and personnel as it develops. what is the alternative to the crisis that we see looming nationwide? you can't -- you do not have enough. the federal government does not have enough material to sit there and say, whatever you need, i can get you. don't worry, california, don't worry, michigan, don't worry,

new york, don't worry, florida. they can't. they can't. they have essentially said, i don't have enough in my stockpile to handle all of this. and then you get into a blame game. should it have been in the federal stockpile, should states have had stockpile? forget that. the reality is, how do you handle this operationally unless you go from place to place with the proviso that you say, and then each state has to help every other state as we go along. there is a simple analogy to this that we live all the time. when we have minor emergencies or disasters, when we have a minor hurricane that's regional in nature or a minor flood, power goes out, what do we do? all the power and utility companies from all across the

country descend on that region that needs help. right? after a hurricane, power lines are down, you look at the highways, you see all those trucks coming in from different states, right? arizona trucks, colorado trucks. when florida has a hurricane, what do we do? we get in the trucks, everybody drives down to florida. personnel, et cetera. when puerto rico got into trouble, what did we do? con edison, new york, con-agra gas. they all went to puerto rico. go to where there is a crisis. new york is in crisis. help new york, and then pick up, decamp and then go to the next place as this rolls across the country.

there is not a perfect timing. there will be two parts of the country that hit an apex at the same time. there will be three parts of the country that hit an apex at the same time. but i do not see any operational, practical alternative to dealing with this going forward. by the way, this is all operational. there is no concept, there is no abstraction, there is no philosophy to this. this is, a person walks in the door. do you have a bed? do you have a staff person? are they wearing ppe? and do you have a ventilator? and are they all present at that moment when that person walks in that door? that's all this is. that's all this is. forget testing, vaccines. that's a separate project. that's not where people are going to die in the near term. people are going to die in the

near term because they walk into a hospital and there's no bed with a ventilator because there's either no bed or no staff or no ppe or no ventilator. that is what's going to happen. and i think this is the only way to avoid it. and look, i believe the american people are there. you know, how many times have we seen a disaster across this country and how many americans just show up to help? i mean, it's in the american dna to say, we're here to help one another. it is e pluribus unum. i didn't have to put that on the seal. that's just a reminder. we're a community, we're americans, we're a family, we're brothers and sisters. there is a commonality. i'm a new yorker, you're from california. i know, those are lines on a piece of paper.

we are the same. we're the same. and we know that here in new york, i asked for people to come help new york. health officials, health professionals. 20,000 people volunteered in a matter of days to come help new york in the middle of a pandemic. 20,000 people. think about that. 20,000 health professionals said, i'll leave my home and come to your state. systematize that volunteerism. systematize that generosity, that charity and that expertise, and that's how we beat this damn virus as it marches across the country. we just deploy in front of the virus as it works its way across the country. in any event, when our curve is

over, that's what we're going to do. new yorkers are going to take what we've amassed, we're going to take our equipment, we're going to take our personnel, we're going to take our knowledge, and we will go to any community that needs help. we're learning things that fortunately no other community had to learn. because we're first. and because of the intensity of the situation here. when our urgent need is over, we will help any community in this nation that needs it. because that outpouring has been there for us. you know, i remember post-9/11, and i remember post-9/11 without asking anyone for anything, the people who showed up in new york

just to help -- tradesmen bringing tools, people bringing food, people bringing trays of cookies, whatever. they just showed up. nobody asked. they just showed up and said, i'm here to help. or stood on a corner helping people. that's america at its best. and at this time when we're dealing with our worst, let's deploy america at its best. and we know what that is. and that can help us. questions, comments? >> reporter: so there is no data to support the effectiveness of the face mask, and i understand usually we'd like to base things on evidence, and unfortunately, in difficult times like this, we have to go with expert opinion,

and right now there isn't data to suggest whether masks, except for those who are ill and those who are health care workers, and that's why we're reserving those for health care workers. >> i don't show there is evidence of that. >> like i say, there is no clear evidence that show face masks, whether made out of cloth, whether the general public should use face masks. we continue looking at all the data coming in and we're examining that right now. >> let me ask the doctor for a qualified opinion. i think it's fair to say the masks couldn't hurt unless they gave you a false sense of security. you know, when a doctor talks about a mask, they're talking about a form-fitting mask that goes around your nose that doesn't allow any other air to come in. that's really what a mask is. so to ask a doctor, does a

bandanna help? i said to a doctor, i'll just give them the bandannas i wear when i ride my motorcycle. he said, that's not going to help. this is what a doctor thinks of as a mask, right? could it hurt? might it help? i think it's fair to say yes. but don't get a false sense of security that now you don't have to social distance and you don't have to take the normal precautions because you're wearing a bandanna. is that fair to say? >> that's absolutely fair to say. >> reporter: how long do you expect to see upstate hospitals and how long do you expect the curve to hit in upstate as long as new york city still needs those ventilators? >> first of all, don't use the word "seize." i didn't use that word. it's a harsh kind of word. it's a sharing of resources. we're going to share resources.

we're not going to have any part of the state that doesn't have the resources they need because we didn't share resources. we are tracking every night, every hospital, who comes in, what they have, what they need. we're just sharing and shifting resources, which is the only intelligent thing to do among one group of people. right now the numbers in upstate new york are lighter than the numbers in downstate new york. but that is going to change. it is in new york city. now you're seeing long island start to light up. we had westchester light up. the numbers are growing in erie. you're going to see that wave move through the state. you've been watching it every day on that map as every state, every county is now colored in.

we're going to shift resources all across the state to whatever place has that need at that time. and we're going to make sure every hospital has the resources they need to do their normal business. what is fascinating is the normal business has dropped off dramatically for a hospital. why? we canceled all elective surgery, so elective non-critical surgery is not happening. and when we close down most of society and people are staying home, less people are getting hurt. less bicycle accidents, less crime. so hospitals who are not dealing with covid are seeing very low activity. and it's not that we're going to leave any health care facility without adequate equipment, but they don't need excess equipment

now, right? most of these hospitals put together stockpile, you know? you'll have 50,000 masks. well, 50,000 masks, how long does that last you? five months it lasts me. okay, you don't really need a five-month supply right now. keep a one-month supply, give me four months, and, doctor, if you need it because there is a problem, i'll redeploy it the other way, otherwise i owe you four months' worth of masks and i will pay you for it. >> how many are we talking about, going from upstate to downstate? >> we have to see how many. we haven't done that calculation, jesse. you have to go hospital by hospital. how many do you have? how many do you need for the immediate future? >> reporter: but ideally, how many would you draw down? >> there could be several

hundred excess ventilators in hospitals that don't have a covid response right now. >> reporter: and are you still anticipating or projecting that you still got basic the six days of supply in new york city, or would this fiddle with that number a little bit? >> several hundred could represent several hundred lives, so am i willing to deploy the national guard and inconvenience people for several hundred lives? you're damn right i am. several hundred ventilators doesn't fix the problem, obviously, but it's a significant number of ventilators when you can't find ventilators anywhere else and you've done everything else that you can do. >> reporter: we're still at six days. >> yes. let's do it this way. let's do it this way. you're burning about -- the burn rate is about 300 ventilators per day.

if you find 300 excess ventilators, you've found another day. >> reporter: are you willing to release the ventilators if the states ask for them? >> it's human nature, right? let me borrow your equipment. no. i'd rather keep my equipment here. the government is going to take it, how do i know i get it back, how do i track it? it's an expensive piece of equipment, by the way. ventilators now -- well, now it's about $50,000. when we started it was about $20,000. so it's not like asking to borrow a cup of sugar, you know. >> reporter: are you confident this order would stand up in court? certainly these private hospitals could make a fourth amendment argument. >> you think they might sue me? >> reporter: possibly. >> it would be a slow day if i didn't get sued five times, john, but if they wanted to sue me for borrowing their excess ventilators to save lives, let

them sue me. >> reporter: do you think it would stand up? >> yes, it will stand up. it will stand up. >> reporter: the javits center is now becoming a covid -- >> excuse me a second. i will borrow them, i will return them or i will pay you for a new one. you want to hope i don't return it so i pay you for a new one. lend me your drill. i will bring it back to you or i will buy you a new drill. how do you lose? [ inaudible question ] >> i'm not taking your last drill. you have five other drills in your toolbox. you're not going to use five drills between now and then. and if something happens where you go on a drilling frenzy, call me and i will bring you more drills. >> reporter: the javits center now being converted to a covid unit, will that house people who

also need less senintensive carr will they have icu beds? >> it will have icu beds. i don't know the mix -- well, icu bed. for all intents and purposes in this conversation, it's a ventilated bed, right? so how many ventilators will be in javits? it's federally staffed. they're going to have to find the ventilators for it. so it's going to be up to them. >> reporter: can you find the ventilators in the stockpile? >> that would be from their stockpile, yes. >> reporter: the number of sick cops in the nypd continues to rise. is there going to be a percentage of how many cops would make you potentially take over the nypd with the state police, or is there something you're considering there? >> look, we have the situation all across the board. we have transit workers who have a very high rate of illness who,

by the way, are doing heroic work. i want to thank them very much, john samuelson, the transit workers eun. to run those trains, run those buses every day, talk about social distancing. you're a bus driver, right? it's hard to social distance. you're a train conductor pulling into stations all across the city. so these -- they're doing heroic work. very high rate of illness. that's a problem. it's a problem in the nypd, it's a problem in the fdny, it's a problem all across the board. it's a problem, serious problem, with health care workers, nurses and hospital staff. so it will be on a case-by-case basis, bernadette. we'll look to the localities. we have the same situation in nassau and suffolk, by the way. we'll look to the locality, what do they think is a level where they need backup, and then we'll do everything we can to provide

backup. >> reporter: but is there a point where you would require a state takeover at the nypd? >> no. you couldn't do a state takeover at the nypd. i would be of assistance to helping the nypd -- we have to perform a policing function, right? that's state constitution. provide public safety. the nypd, if they have a serious staff shortage, then i would work with them to figure out how we remedy that. but the nypd is something like 30,000 employees. there is no replacing 30,000 employees. >> reporter: do you know the number of covid patients in the new york city who have been transferred to upstate hospital, especially the capital region? >> does anybody know that? >> we have transported the last couple days several patients back to this area and we're

working with the hospitals down there. >> reporter: have you spoken with the federal authorities on the situation of comfort? we reported that there were only 20 patients there. that seems to be a vast underutilization. >> i did not speak with the president about the comfort in any depth. the reason for the comfort was it was for non-covid people. i'm going to speak to the secretary of defense. the navy's position is they don't want to put covid people on the ship because it would be too hard to disinfect the ship afterwards. that's my rough interpretation of what they're saying. >> reporter: there are also non-covid patients they're rejecting as well, right? >> i haven't heard that. we only have covid and non-covid patients, right? the need is really for the covid

patients. i know they're not taking covid-positive patients. but they said that from day one, in fairness. now, i don't know the science of ship disinfecting to know whether or not they're being overly dramatic, so i take their word for it. >> reporter: can we return to the slide with the total confirmed cases of coronavirus? >> that tests my technological ability, zach. which one do you want? >> reporter: the countybreak down of the confirmed cases. >> the county -- can one of you -- can you do that? there must be some better way of doing this. there's got to be a better way. >> reporter: do you have the update on any measures taken by the administration to lessen crowding in state prisons where cases continue to grow? >> we have no measures to lessen

crowding in state prisons. we have put in a number of regulations and rules to reduce the risk, but reducing the prison population, we don't have any way to do that right now. is this the slide you were talking about, positive cases? >> reporter: have any of those measures in state prisons been any different than those at nursing homes or other facilities? >> yeah. i can get you a full list of both. >> reporter: there's been an uptake of coronavirus patients having to shelter together. is there any information the nation can provide for people? >> the state has a national number. women should know they don't have to stay in those situations. we will help them relocate, we will help them find state shelter. if there is an information where you're in immediate harm, call 911. weaver be've been listening

governor cuomo with his update on the state, with a sobering number of headlines coming from the governor. a high number of deaths in the state. another plea that he signed an order saying he can redistribute resources throughout the state as needed. that's where things stand right now. new york state, new york city especially very much in the thick of it right now. joining me right now is michael osterholm. he's the director of research and policy at the university of minnesota. thank you very much for being here, doctor. thank you for sticking around. >> thank you. >> just one question about what we're hearing from governor cuomo. when you see that at this point when new york has been the epicenter of the national outbreak, the last 24 hours being the highest single increase in deaths, what does it tell you? >> first of all, it's a covid reality. that's what we're dealing with right now. i think the thing that's really

hard for everyone to understand is that this is just the beginning of this situation. we're going to see this spread throughout the united states. there will be more places, maybe not quite as severe as new york, but they clearly are going to be severe. we've already seen that in a number of metropolitan areas. i think one thing that's really being missed here, if you look at 1918 and the big influenza pandemic that occurred then, that happened until 1920 until most people became infected and then became immune or died. what we're talking about here, this is not the next couple weeks. we're talking about months and months. we're already running out of supplies now. much of the rest of the country won't even have the supplies new york has when their first wave is up and active. so i think that this is why we need a national plan that just doesn't look at the next couple of days, which are critical. if you're a person needing a ventilator right now in new york, it's number one.

but it's going to be a much larger situation. >> as you're talking about, we're not at half time here, folks. it might be day to day you're hearing this conversation, but you are an expert on this. we're at the beginning of this as a country, we're at the beginning of this still with new york. new york has been one of the state's aggressive, having done a statewide stay-at-home order. you have called for a national plan, essentially a national lockdown strategy. how damaging is it, then, if you look at this every day that goes by without a national strategy in place? >> i think this is one of the key issues we have before us. we have choices. one of the choices, which is one i think most americans would not agree with is we could go into a total lockdown for 18 to 20 months and hopefully have a vaccine. that's our redeemer, the vaccine. or we can say, you know what, we're going to let this go. we'll get our country back

together and we'll see potentially 1 million deaths, and we'll bring back the health care workers who are on the front lines, and they will die. neither of those are options we can accept. we have to thread the needle with a rope right down the middle and say, how can we bring back our country, the world, and do it over the next months where we allow part of our business world, our essential services to come back and at the same time trying to protect those who have the greatest risk of having severe disease or dying? and i think that's the discussion we're not having. we're talking about numbers in the next couple of weeks, what will happen. >> right. >> we need a plan. we don't have a plan. we do not have a national plan. >> and as you're talking about, we're often hearing from the local to national level. on the national level, it was 15 days to slow the spread, now it's 30 days to slow the spread. executive orders state-by-state. they're going in some cases in two-week increments. that seems irrational and not

based in fact at this point. >> it's not. >> you've got a really interesting perspective on something that i think people need to have a really serious gut check on, which is the model that the white house is using in terms of estimates of the range of the potential death toll. they're projecting it could be between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths at the end of this, and that's if everyone in the states abides by the social distancing guidelines, which isn't happening. they even acknowledge it at the white house. so why are they even using that model? >> i don't know. and more importantly, it's a model that only lasts for four months. let me just give perspective to this. right now today we are seeing transmission beginning back in china. singapore had its single largest day of community-acquired infections for which they're not sure where they came from. seoul, korea, today if you look, korea is reporting a very large

number of cases of transmission from within. now we're realizing unless you can completely suppress this virus, it's going to come back, and it's going to continue to come back as long as there are susceptible people. i don't have a crystal ball, but i would give a rough estimate that only 10 to 20% of the nation has been infected so far. this will keep marching on like it did in 1918 until 20 to 30% of the population are infected. that should give us a wake-up call that we're in if for the long haul. how are we going to do that? i hear it in new york, i hear it in new orleans, i hear it in my hometown of indianapolis. but we have to deal with how are we going to deal with this day after day after day after day for potentially months? that is something all of us are begging a federal response to develop. >> it is reality. if you are an elected official,

this is what you are paid to do. you may not like it, you need to deal with the consequences and you need to make plans for the long hall. listen to doctors. you have been sounding the alarm for a long time. dr doctor, thank you for coming. >> thank you very much. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪

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about places like new orleans. the death is significantly higher of per capita than new york city. cnn ed lavandera, what are you hearing what is driving this really troubling trend in new orleans? >> reporter: we talked a lot about this the last few weeks that people with under line health issues are the most susceptible to be really hit hardest by this coronavirus infection. here in new orleans is a perfect storm of that. this is a city and a region of a country that routinely ranks at the bottom and most of the health categories when you talk about obesity and when you talk about kidney issues and diabetes and all of those under line factors exist here at a much higher rate than my parts of the country. you combine all of that together and then you throw into the fact

that the vast majority of the cases that the louisiana hot spot have seen is here in new orleans area alone. that really is a recipe for very dangerous situation and what health experts and state officials, the reason why they continue to hammer home at this point and the city and the region around southeast louisiana really needs to practice social distancing and stay away and protecting them themselves from getting infected because there are a lot of under line issues here as they try to recover from this infection. >> ed, thank you so much. bog being on the front line there, appreciate it. >> coming up for us as new york city hospitals filled with coronavirus patients. the navy hospital ship has been deployed to help. as we heard governor cuomo talking about it only treating 20 patients.

what is going on with the federal response of new york? is it going to be changing? we'll be back. e'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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hi everyone, kate bolduan, today is another bad day. the death toll we are seeing hitting alarming. questions of when may we return back to normal and what does that look like to be honest? new guidance is coming o