♪ the coronavirus numbers are staggering. the global challenge overwhelming. >> this is what we're trained to do. just not in this volume. i think it's emotionally hard to prepare for this level of sickness and suffering. plus african-americans take a disproportionate hit. >> our communities don't have the resources that are required to keep them alive. and as the curve flattens, the president pushes to restart the economy. >> what we are doing is working. we need to continue to do it. >> it would be nice to be able to open with a big bang. ♪ welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing your sunday. happy easter. fresh reminders this day, the coronavirus is changing everything. it is easter, the pope inside

for a socially distanced mass. ♪ >> roadblocks in spain and italy as officials worry the warmer weather will undermine lock downs. japan's cases spiked again. russia posted its daily increase and south korea says it will test all travelers arriving from the united states, a footnote as the case count and death toll climb here. for the first time, all 50 states, now under disaster declarations at the same time. still, the numbers are stabilizing and the president is agitating to reopen the economy. >> i'm going to have to make a decision and i only hope to god that it's the right decision. but i would say without question it's the biggest decision i've ever had to make. >> there's a detailed and a

damning "new york times" account today about trump decisions already made to ignore early warnings about the virus and recommendations to act sooner to control its spread. instead, the president sidelined voices he considered to be alarmists. to the latest numbers now as we take a look in the united states. you look across the country, the deeper the color, the higher the numbers. new york the hardest hit. pennsylvania, florida. illinois, louisiana, out in california. those states have about 15,000 cases. more than a half million in the united states. the death count approaching 21,000. sadly. if you look day by day at the case count, you see early march, it starts to go up. here's where we are now. this is the point that the experts are looking at. is it beginning to flatten. the five-day averages, it appears the caseload is beginning to flatten. that's what the experts are hoping for as they look at this. if you look in new york, you see the same thing, you see the spike in cases. if you look at the five-day

average, back here is when the stay-at-home order went into play, you do see the beginning of a flattening here. if you look at other states in the snapshot, new jersey had the giant spike. is it beginning to flatten out? michigan, new jersey and pennsylvania, case count not as high. the question is, is social distancing, other mitigation, are those steps beginning to flatten the curve. the week ahead will be critical there to see if there are spikes back up. new york and new jersey among the hardest hit. both governors claim we're making some progress, but, but, but do not let down your guard. >> i know everybody wants to get out of the house and they want to get out of the house tomorrow and they want me to see we're going to be reopening the economy in two weeks. the worst thing that can happen is we make a misstep and we let our emotions get ahead of our

logic and fact. >> the curve is flattening. we're not in the end zone. we cannot spike any footballs. we're not even first in goal. >> with us this sunday to share their expertise. doctor of harvard's global institute, and an emergency room physician. thank you both for coming back with us this sunday. i cannot thank you enough. i know you've busy. i don't like to get the doctors involved in politics. i won't go too deep here. when you read this damning account in the "new york times," all the emails about the meetings and recommendations to the president in late february to start some lockdowns in the most affected parts of the country back then, the president said those people are alarmists and it was almost a month before we did anything. how different would the numbers be today if the president had listened to that advice? >> thank you for having me on. there's no doubt that the numbers would have been very, very different. we don't have to speculate. we can look at the states that did close early, didn't wait for

the president's national declaration. the bay area of san francisco, ohio, other places and their numbers have done very well. they have not seen the big spikes. we know if the federal leadership had acted earlier, we would have far fewer people infected and dead, unfortunately. >> and, doctor, as we have this conversation, anyone watching, i urge you to read the "new york times" account, go to cnn.com, the president always says, these people don't have sources. these are emails, meeting notes, a conversation among his own advisors about the alarm here. one of the questions now is, do you reopen at the end of the month? when you look at the data i just showed, the curve does appear to be flattening a little bit. new york appears to be flattening a little bit. this is the university of washington expert who says, yes, things are getting better. but all these models about trying to keep the death count as low as possible are predicated on keeping the social

distancing restrictions in through the most of may. >> in our model we assume that the social distancing is going to stay in place until the end of may and we've now started to run some scenarios about what happens if we took them off on may 1st. the early returns on that analysis don't look good. if we were to stop at the national level may 1st, we're seeing a return to almost where we are now sometime in july. >> is that a projection or from your experience is that a fact? if you lift at the end of the month, everyone will start going that way again? >> so, at this point, the models are all projections. but the models from washington have been generally accurate. we keep refining them as we get more data. the models are looking better because of the social distancing that we have put in place. could it be possible to lift the restrictions and to let us be out and go back to sending our kids to school and going to

parks and here in rhode island going back to the beach? we would love that. but we need a few things to be in place. we need to have more expensive testing out there. in the state of rhode island, our governor has ruled out much greater availability of testing, but in most places across the country, you simply cannot get a test unless you're getting hospitalized. those numbers that we're seeing are tough to judge because we don't know how many people are infected. if we're going to let people go back to face-to-face interactions, we need to know who is a carrier, we need to test people with mild cold symptoms. without that public health infrastructure in place, it's going to be really difficult to open the country back up without putting the rest of us back at risk again. >> i want to come back to testing a little bit more in detail when we talk about the economy. 17 states are still two weeks or so away from hitting their peaks. we can hope because of the

alarm, because of the social distancing in place in most of them, that their peaks are not as devastating as we're seeing in new york and new jersey. but two of those states happen to be among the most popular. you have governors talking about reopening the economy in those states. are we in a better position this sunday than we were last sunday, but we better be careful? >> absolutely, john. comparing us to where we were last sunday we made two steps forward, one step back. two steps forward because americans have been doing a good job with social distancing. one step back because as the doctor said, we've been falling behind on testing. we're further behind now than a week ago. in terms of texas and florida, i think if they open up any time soon, they are going to see a resr resurgence of cases that will overwhelm their health care system. we don't get to make the timeline. this is a dr. fauci quote.

we've got to do what the virus is telling us in terms of when it's safe to reopen so we can stay open. we're not close to that unfortunately. >> just from your experience, i was looking at numbers posted today, if you're 85 years or older, 45% of those patients hospitalized are dying. i guess some of this is obvious, but when you just see 4 in 10 americans who are hospitalized with coronavirus, what are you seeing -- this is a question about your firsthand experience, i guess. is there anything that can be done or is it just this population is just so vulnerable? >> this population, older population is so vulnerable for a number of reasons. one is that they're older and their bodies are not as resilient. they're not able to fight off this virus is same way that

younger people are. we're seeing younger people getting very sick. the old folks have less resilience. older folks have chronic illnesses that put them at higher risks and they're living in nursing homes or assisted living facilities where the spread of the virus is happening quickly. they're getting exposed. it's tougher for them to social distance. our icus here in rhode island like across the state are tremendously full and we do see that it's more of the older generation. we're also seeing a lot of people that are dying in their nursing homes, that are being put on hospice, their families are making the difficult decision that they don't want to have them brought into a hospital to die. we're seeing a larger number of covid-19 deaths in the older population out in the community right now. >> incredibly sad. stay with us. the debate about how and when to open the economy. millions of americans out of work, getting unemployment isn't easy because the states are

overwhelmed with applications. >> as far as my car note, i'm not sure of that. food, i'm not sure of that. medicine, i'm not sure of that. i'm not sure of anything. i already can't swim and i literally feel like i'm drowning.

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finding the right words can be tough.n it comes to autism, finding understanding doesn't have to be. together, we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org the numbers are beyond staggering. nearly 17 million americans filing new claims for unemployment in three weeks. the images are also shocking. that's a line for a food pantry in san antonio. an economy that was a great election year asset is a catastrophe. the president predicts it will bounce back quickly. >> i think the economy is going to do very well. that's just my feeling. it's a strong feeling. i've had good, proper feelings

about a lot of things over the years and i think we're going to do well. you can never do anything about the people that lost their loved ones and love -- lost their friends. the great friendships. i'm not sure a lot of people will ever be the same. but i think our country from an economic standpoint will end up being stronger than ever. >> many experts not so sure because the coronavirus disruption is so global and so comprehensive. we have ta former wall street executive. the president talks about a rocket ship. you're in the bill gates camp, that the damage here is so deep it's going to be building blocks. >> that is precisely right. what you -- what we witnessed over the past four weeks is essentially economic carnage. we've never experienced anything like this. you know, there's no playbook. and so what we're seeing the economy do right now is seize

up. when you mention those jobless claims. over 15 million jobless claims in the last three weeks, there are some predictions as many as 40 million people may lose their jobs. we're in completely unchartered territory. and for us to think we can open up as usual even in a staggered approach is far too early in the spectrum. this is a case where politicians or business leaders, all of us are going to look to the direction of the health professionals. we need to choose life over the economy and right now moving too quickly could leave us in a much more dire situations. many folks, john, talked when this started about a v-shaped recovery. if we're not careful how we open this economy, we could find

ourselves in an l-shaped recovery. >> the government is trying to come in with a lifeline. there's a stimulus program. a lot of people will wake up this morning to a direct deposit in their account. but so many other people don't have direct deposit information on file with the irs. you see the spike in people trying to get unemployment benefits from their state saying they can't get through on the online platform, they call, they show up. even lindsay graham said, maybe the labor department should bring in some former governors to help them out. the system, the government's system is not equipped to handle this, right? >> you are spot on. this is completely unprecedented and you're spot on about the realities that we're facing every single day. yes, the $2 trillion c.a.r.e.s. act is a smart move, but the dollars are not getting to folks in their homes as quickly as we need them to.

over the weekend, we're already talking about adding another $250 billion to support small businesses across this country because the money is running out. add to that, of course, the unemployment claims. right now, we're getting on a weekly basis about $400. the average american up to $1,000. but as you know, at the rate those claims are coming in, we're not going to have enough funds. right now there's three things i am focused on, number one, what is the next bill? the treasury secretary is working 24/7. we need to put funds back into the states. our states are on a fiscal year shelf, they're on a cliff right now. what are we doing to support the states, hospitals and those who are filing unemployment claims in those states. that's number one. we have to get back to work on a bill immediately. number two, we're going to see

some type of darwinian intervention in this world. it's hard to predict. right now small businesses, 30-plus million of them, most of them have enough cash flow on hand for a month, let alone what we're experiencing right now, up to three months, we need to get small businesses more help and corporate america. let's talk for a second about corporate america. yes, they have lines of credit, yes, they have resolvers that they've been bringing down to support their businesses as they have to furlough folks. but the longer we wait t greater impact it will have on the corporate strain, on the financial markets. so right now we need to shore them up and start to put a plan in place to look at all key levers of the economy so that we do this in a smart, judicious way. >> appreciate your insights. you lay that out. this is a months and months and

months long challenge there. we'll continue to discuss as we play out. i want to bring back dr. ashish jha and dr. megan ranney. the governors say we need better testing, diagnostic testing to find out who has coronavirus and antibody testing to find out who had coronavirus. the president's point man on testing, we don't question his effort for a second, he told bloomberg, ballpark, they'll be capable by may 1st. do you see any evidence the government is ready both on diagnostic and antibody testing to be scaled up in 10, 20 days? >> no, john. we've been watching this and we've been hearing a lot coming out of washington. millions of test kits being sent out, et cetera, et cetera. i'm talking to doctors on the front lines, i'm talking to health officials and i'm looking at the data. and we are doing about as many tests today as we were doing about a week ago.

maybe a little bit more. so i would love it if this time around, the federal government was right. we all want them to be right. here's the problem, until we see dramatically higher numbers of testing, if we open up, it's going to be a disaster and we're going to have to shut down again. i'm optimistic that their proclamations are right, but i'm looking at the data and not feeling optimistic. >> you hear the president, he says we don't need mass testing. right now, their strategy seems to be surging. you hear about a food processing plant, they surge in testing there. but a surge approach is very different than reopening giant pieces of the american economy. >> not only that, but a surge approach is acting after the problem has already started. so if you wait until you start to see cases in the area, before you start to do testing, you've already infected folks. remember, there's somewhere between a 5 and 14-day waiting

period between when you get infected and start having symptoms. if you wait until those cases are emerging, you're too late. we can look at other countries that have done this successfully. iceland, new zealand, south korea to a large extent. their managing to keep parts of their economy open. they're managing to keep health care -- the health care system able to function and to keep deaths down and they're doing it through widespread testing. not just testing, but also contact tracing. so that if i see that a patient of mine in the emergency department is positive for covid-19, i should be able to know everyone who has touched them in the last five to 14 days and to watch those people, to make sure they don't get sick. it's a very standard public health approach. it's not supercomplicated. but it needs leadership and it needs organization to happen. >> leadership and organization is something we keep talking about. appreciate it again, your coming in to help us out on a sunday

morning. take care. up next for us, african-americans are dying at an alarming rate. and an nba legend that helped us learn about hiv says one thing is myth. >> people went out there spreading that word that blacks couldn't get it and now we see that not only can we get the coronavirus, but we can die from the coronavirus. the coronavirus. what would joe biden do differently?

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the novel coronavirus is deadly when it collides with health care and economic disparities that have been with us sadly for generations. african-americans are dying at a disproportionate rate. one-third of louisiana's black, but 70% of the deaths are african-americans. you see the disparities in mississippi, illinois, michigan and the district of columbia. hypertension, obesity, diabetes, just three of the underlying health conditions that make it harder to fight the virus. density in urban areas is a factor as is systemic education and economic disparities. >> the chronic burden of medical ills is likely to make people of color less resilient to the ravages of covid-19 and it's likely that the burden of social ills is also contributing.

>> the mayor of the district of columbia is with us to discuss this and other challenges this morning. thank you so much for your time. i know you're among the leaders who are determined to study this, to get to the root causes. they're adding to the pain in the african-american community. my question is, what can you do today and tomorrow because you know the numbers, when you look at the workforce, the people on the front lines, 31% of people who work in bus services, urban transit are african-american. 31% of home health care services, african-americans. taxi services, three out of ten. postal service. these are the people on the front line and they're especially vulnerable. what can be done today and tomorrow? >> i think you put your finger on it, that we have been dealing with these disparities for generations, fueled by segregation, racism, substandard conditions, stresses of poverty

and the underlying medical conditions like hypertension and diabetes that this virus is violently attacking. and so we have been very, very focused in d.c. on collecting the information. we're calling on a national focus on collecting data about coronavirus deaths and a lot of that is hampered by the information that private labs are collecting. so we need that information so we can further study it. but we also have to be committed to a more equal society where people are paid fairly, where housing conditions -- we know the big, big role that housing conditions play in asthma and why so many black children have asthma and we know that asthma is also an underlying condition. so this is an issue, why the spotlight of covid-19 is on it, we need national and local strategies to have more equal medical outcomes for

african-americans in our country. >> to try to slow those numbers, though, are you getting the resources you need for a surge of testing for those people on the front lines every day? >> we continue to need testing resources not just in washington, d.c., but across the country. it's also very important that we have those testing resources to enable us to open our economy back up and get people back to work in a safe way. we made the decision in washington to open our citywide testing facility in a part of our city that has historically had poorer medical outcomes and we did that even when the testing data showed very few people in that ward testing positive. since we opened that center, more people have had access to testing and we're going to continue to make more testing available as we get the very

needed resources likely from the feds but we're sourcing it privately as well. >> and so let's talk about the weeks ahead. you have a school still closed through april 24th at the moment. the president is clambering. he says he has a tough choice to make here. there are 196,000 federal workers that come to the district of columbia. some of them live in the district. some come from maryland or elsewhere. are you prepared to have the economy open on may 1st and have most of those people back in the district of columbia or do you need more time, does the president need to wait? >> we know that our surge in the district is going to come much later than may 1st. d.c. residents have stayed home and are helping to push down our curve and to push it out. so we don't expect our peak medical surge to happen until

june. and so we continue to look for ways, certainly, that we would be able to turn on our economy slowly. but i don't think that's going to be on may the 1st. >> appreciate your time this morning. let's keep in touch as we go through the difficult weeks ahead. appreciate your time. the coronavirus task force wanted to take action in february. the president instead shook up its leadership and sidelined those issuing the loudest warnings. and a look at coronavirus disruption by the numbers. jobless claims up by 17 million. air pollution down 30% because factories are closed. murders in chicago down 44%. 230 nba games canceled. that the world needs. but right now, the world needs all the good that we can do.

to all of our employees and everyone working to keep america strong, thank you. to all of our employees and everyone working there will be parties and family gatherings. there will be parades and sporting events and concerts. to help our communities when they come back together, respond to the 2020 census now. spend a few minutes online today to impact the next 10 years of healthcare, infrastructure and education. go to 2020census.gov and respond today to make america's tomorrow brighter. it's time to shape our future.

on the coronavirus accountability question, president trump is very consistent, if there is or was a problem, it cannot be traced to him or his administration. >> the obama administration made a decision on testing that

turned out to be very detrimental to what we're doing. the previous administration, the shelves were empty. the shelves were empty. >> we were very prepared. the only thing we weren't prepared for was the media, the media has not treated it fairly. >> we're a second-line of attack. the first line of attack is supposed to be the hospital and the local government and is the states. >> we've been supplying it. but the states should be building. we're a backup. we're not an ordering clerk. >> the obama administration could not develop a test for a virus that developed deep into the trump administration. the president for weeks underestimated or played down this threat and the impact of early testing missteps still being felt to this day. there's a detailed sunday "new york times" account and it raises additional questions including this, the white house task force decided at a february 21st meeting that portions of the country would need to be shut down to control the spread.

the president shook up the task force and put the vice president in charge, quote, the push to convince mr. trump of the need for more assertive action stalled, the article reads, with mr. pence in charge, the focus was clear, no more alarmist messages, it would be more than three weeks before mr. trump would announce serious social distancing measurements. a lost period during which the virus spread rapidly. welcome to my guests. when you read this story and there have been other accounts as well, when you read this story, the president says they have no sources. these are emails, documents, meeting notes from his people. they try today get the president's attention and shoved them aside. >> these are absolutely stunning documents and just outlining a very long period with a lot of missed opportunities. i was in the pool on the day that president trump went to the

cdc in early march and it was clear then that he was still very much downplaying it. we asked him about what are you going to do about the economy, and he said, i don't have any worries about the economy. the economy is going to be fine. he said if you need a test, you can get a test. and that's still not true today. >> it is still not true today. and, josh, this "new york times" story, it's a well sourced detailed look back. you're part of a great reporting team. and the post looks at some of the missteps and this is from your article this morning. an administration that has lagged behind nearly every step of the pandemic has no plan for when or how to open parts of the economy. even as trump and many advisers push to do so as soon as may 1. there's no plan for getting medical supplies to states which are left to fight among themselves or seek favors from trump. there's no plan for what happens if cases of deaths spike as people return to work or how to respond if the coronavirus surges again in the fall.

how can this be in the sense that -- i know the president bristles at it. but he has to know his actions now are under tough scrutiny. you say they're not prepared looking ahead either. >> there's an effort to get prepared. you have doctors in the administration meeting every day without the president. you have different groups opening our economy task force, the vice president's team, jared kushner's team. the doctor's team. and what you have is a group of confusion. many of them working hard trying to do the best they can. but you have a disorganized top. you have all of these different groups that are trying to figure out this problem and that problem, but there's no cohesive strategy with the president involved. and what we've seen is when some of these people go to the president and present them with a consensus idea, even when they get all of these people to sign

off on it, he goes his own way. it's a challenging environment to make policy. what a lot of these doctors and experts will telling us, in the fall, we could have a resurge of cases and we have to be ready. if we reopen the government, we reopen the economy, some of the states reopen, at least, there could be a resurgence of cases. we have to be ready. there's not really a plan right now on what to do past kind of the short term moments. >> we have seen this consistently through the administration. but this time, it's a life or death matter and a pandemic that the president trusts his instincts more than the experts. he was smarter than the generals, now he sometimes thinks he's smarter than the doctors. the president is saying of course he listens to dr. birx and dr. fauci, but there are two sides of the debate. america was not meant to be shut down, and the president added this to how he will make his

final decision. >> i want to get it open as soon as we can. we have to get our country open, jeff. >> what metrics you will use that decision? >> the metrics right here. that's all i can do. >> it's not all he can do. he has akctress access to the w finest intelligence, but he trusts his instincts more than them often. >> we have now been watching this for a couple of months and president trump is a man divided. he often attacks his very own decisions. he -- within days of the 15 days to slow the spread was saying that the cure can't be worse than the disease. within days of the 30 days to slow the spread, he was again saying that. and even with the masks, they announced the cdc regulation -- or recommendation that people wear masks when they go out in

public, cloth masks. president trump announces it says, i don't know, maybe it will work. i'm not going to wear one. but the interesting thing is, despite all of his trashing of the recommendations, he has still followed the recommendations of the scientists in the end after a lot of nashing of teeth. you need a clear, consistent message so that -- an actionable message so people know what to do and that's where president trump just seems to be having a very significant problem. one other thing i would add quickly, though, is he can say the country is open. people aren't going to leave their houses and start hugging if the governors say don't go. >> that's part of the problem. and the president is trying to have this conversation with himself in an election year. i get it. it's interesting, look at the polling numbers. if you go back in time, jimmy

carter got a bump out of the iran hostage crisis. george h.w. bush after the golf war got a big bounce. he lost the next election. george w. bush after 9/11 got a giant bounce. that one stayed. more recently though in our age of polarization, bill clinton after oklahoma city, not much of a bounce, george w. bush after katrina, a little bit of a bounce. that one led to the democratic win in 2008. nothing for president obama immediately after ebola, but then he went up a little bit in dealing with that. this president's approval rating has stayed stagnant. how much is he worried about politics as opposed to the pandemic? >> he's worried about a lot of factors. he has experts who come to him and say if you do this, do that, deaths are going to increase. his economic team is showing him chart, look at the double digit

unemployment you could have. it's not good during an election year. so the president is trying to balance complicated factors and he's looking at a lot of polling and politics, but he also has many difficult considerations at play and none of these are particularly, you know, great answers for him. >> he says this economy reopening decision will be the toughest of his presidency. on that, i think we can all agree. appreciate it very much on a sunday morning. from the uk, prime minister boris johnson is out of the hospital, according to a downing street spokesman. he will not return immediately to work. he will continue his recovery at the prime minister's retreat. next the third time is the charm for joe biden. and nights, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424.

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politicians, like everyone else, are largely confined to home. bernie sanders bowed out wednesday from vermont. >> today i congratulate joe biden, a very decent man, who i will work with to move our progressive ideas forward. >> a cnn poll released wednesday shows 53% of registered voters back biden.

42% support president trump's reelection. president trump holds a narrow edge on the economy. joining me now, a man who knows the former vice president quite well, david axelrod was a top strategist for the obama campaign when president obama asked joe biden to run with him. he is now host of "the axe files." thanks for joining us. joe biden has the lead in the national horse race. but you look at that polling and you see a warning sign when it comes to the question of enthusiasm. 70% of those who support president trump's reelection say they are very enthusiastic to vote for him. only half of joe biden's voters say they're enthusiastic. why the problem? >> there's a lot of good news for biden in this poll, he's got a massive lead in white

college-educated voters which was competitive in 2016. he's got a 12-point lead in independent voters. donald trump carried that group by four points. this enthusiasm issue is important. you can see in the poll that the two groups who lag far behind are young voters and african-american or minority voters, i should say. and those are areas in which he's going to have to work. and so the end of the sanders campaign and the beginning of the general election is an important line of demarcation for biden so he can begin to consolidate those forces. >> let's listen to a little bit of the outreach to bernie sanders. bernie sanders drops out, joe biden knows he has a task ahead. here is the beginning of it. >> he didn't just run a political campaign. he created a movement. and that's a good thing for the nation and for our future. while bernie's campaign has ended, i know his leadership is going to continue. >> so there are always some risks in this, already you see the trump campaign saying joe biden is going to move all the

way to the left, he's going to be a socialist like bernie sanders. what are the risks, what are the opportunities? >> after this epic crisis that we're going through right now, it will be interesting to see how people's attitudes change relative to issues like universal health care. i don't think biden is going to move all the way. he made some small steps in that direction by suggesting lowering the medicare eligibility age. but i think people are going to rethink a lot of these issues and the role of the social safety net that has been debated so heatedly over the last many years because what have we've seen. so i don't know that that's going to be an effective argument. as you can see, and as i mentioned, when you see where independent voters are, where suburban voters are, where college-educated white voters are, right now trump is losing that argument. and i don't know that he's going to have a lot of success painting joe biden to the left. >> one of the big challenges now for the former vice president is

to pick his running mate. you were part of the team in 2008 when barack obama settled on joe biden. barack obama was new. he was untested on the national stage. he was very, very different. he picked joe biden in part because he was safe, a veteran of the united states senate. he picked joe biden because of so many years on the foreign relations committee, global experience, had the blue collar roots in pennsylvania. you address weaknesses with your vice presidential pick. and he's promised it will be a woman. >> one other reason obama picked biden is because he had been through a national campaign. he understood the crazy maelstrom that a national campaign is. he didn't want a candidate who was learning on the job. that could point biden in the direction of some of the women that he ran against, senator harris, senator klobuchar, senator warren, each of whom have different strengths. if he wants to appeal to the upper midwest where those

battleground states are, klobuchar would be a strong candidate. so too would governor kregretch wilmer of michigan who has emerged. if he wants to move toward the progressive base, senator warren would be a strong choice. if he wants to galvanize voters of color, obviously kamala harris brings unique qualities to that. i think he'll have to weigh those. plus compatibility, how does he feel about these candidates, how would i feel about working closely with them not just in a campaign but in an administration. that's the thought process that he's going through right now. >> the president of the united states, we always talk about the rose garden strategy, we might call it the briefing room strategy. right now when donald trump comes in for the coronavirus briefings, they run an hour and a half on average. some say they're hurting him

more than they're helping him. but he's on tv and joe biden is stuck at home. >> i'm sure there are local tv stations around the country that would take an interview with joe biden and run them at the top of the news. the convention is a real issue. it seems unlikely you'll be able to have large gatherings in august. how do you get the same amount of attention that is usually the kickoff for a general election campaign? i'm sure his digital folks and creative folks are thinking through very hard right now, how do we get that kind of audience and create viral moments so we can break through in an environment in which we don't have a whole lot of platform here. >> we don't know where we're headed. david axelrod, thank you very much for your time. >> great to see you, john, stay healthy. >> thank you, you too. that's it this sunday, we're here at 11:00 and noon eastern. "state of the union" with jake tapper is up next, his guests

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at the peak, the death toll soars in the u.s. as the coronavirus ravages american lives. >> even though we're in a holiday season, now is no time to back off. >> did we see the worst this week? one of the coronavirus task force leaders, dr. anthony fauci, joins me in moments. and back to business? president trump says he would like to reopen the country. >> i am going to have to make a decision and i only hope to god it's the right decision. >> but do governors, who actually make the decision, is it time? i'll speak to the